Mass Effect 2 Review

By Tom Bramwell Published 26 January, 2010

Of things to come.

Version tested: Xbox 360

For games that are so obsessed with their own fake histories that their creators often commission novels to promote them, RPGs are curiously happy to ignore their real-life predecessors. Fable II takes place in the same world as Fable, but only notionally. Fallout 3 was inspired by its ancestors, but made its own radical way. And virtually everything Square has made since 1997 has Final Fantasy stamped on it, but the majority of the games wouldn't recognise one another at a family picnic.

Mass Effect 2 is meant to be different. For a start it is neither beginning nor end - it's the second instalment in a trilogy of releases cataloguing the antics of humans and their alien friends in space, in a future dogged by myth, politics and a suspiciously readymade transport network. But more importantly it is designed to allow for choices that may have already been made by the player in the first game, and to bequeath several years' worth of possible decisions to a future sequel.

The game begins shortly after its predecessor. Commander Shepard and friends have vanquished Saren and his master, and are rumbling around the galaxy trying to wipe out any remaining Geth robots. All of a sudden a massive, unknown alien ship assaults them. The attack plunges you, as Shepard, into a fiery playable prologue in the heart of a disintegrating spaceship, introducing or reintroducing basic movement and conversation skills in violent and eye-catching circumstances.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 1

Navigating galaxies now involves buying fuel and driving a tiny little ship around on an overworld (overuniverse?) map screen. It's rather charming.

Within seconds there are moments of beauty and class to match the high tension. Emerging from the fury of flames and collapsing walls of your ship into the eerie peace and quiet of a pocket of vacuum, exposed to the stars through the wrenched struts of the superstructure and watching loosed seats drift away as you brush past them, is a deft and startling juxtaposition. BioWare has criticised Japanese RPGs in recent months for being stuck in their ways, but it's nice to see that the developer has now mastered one of their strengths: the explosive opening.

Events then shift to two years later as Shepard is compelled to join with Cerberus, an organisation run by President Bartlett off of the West Wing (who is still smoking). Shepard is to seek out vanishing human colonists, but with his old colleagues now scattered around the galaxy, many with new priorities, first he must assemble a team. This is familiar BioWare territory, of course, expanding out from a linear first hour to send you across the universe in a new ship recruiting new personnel, and as is always the case, almost nobody you seek is as they seem, and circumstances rarely match those described to you by Bartlett - sorry, the Illusive Man. Instead, they become more elaborate and intriguing.

For instance, early on you visit a ship called Purgatory to locate a rogue biotic (a wizard of the future, newcomers), and while it begins as a simple prisoner exchange, you get more than you expected by the end, and perhaps more than you can handle. Later on you visit the space station Omega and mislead local mercenaries in order to track down the alien they are gunning for, only to encounter somebody you did not expect along the way. Even later, you recruit a powerful biotic who is on the hunt for a dangerous relative, and must employ a bit of detective work to bring them together, before ultimately being called upon to make a startling choice at the peak of their reunion.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 2

Many planets you visit are stocked with shops, whose wares include hacks and upgrades for your armour and abilities, with negotiable rates.

While your crew will come to be stocked by mostly new faces, the game isn't coy about thrusting old friends and enemies back to the fore and showing you how the past two years have affected them, nor about allowing some of them to disappoint you. If you played the first game, your decisions will be evident, and those who explored the troubled but adorable fringe worlds of the first Mass Effect thoroughly will spot more than a few familiar names and faces in different roles, almost any of which would be a shame to spoil.

Players both old and new will devour the same content with comparable relish, however. For newcomers Mass Effect 2 gently constructs elements of your back-story in one of its initial scenes in order to compensate for the lack of a save-game to import, although the game makes certain decisions for you in a manner that fits the story most naturally, allowing for outcomes that might be deemed more valuable, like potential romantic entanglements. And while old characters inevitably need less introduction than new ones, they are handled in a way that should retain a new player's interest rather than excluding them.

The manner in which the resulting story is told is also an improvement. The first game's system of having you select a few short words, which Shepard then paraphrases and vocalises at greater length in a manner that suits your chosen tone and alignment, remains, but characters now embellish these exchanges by moving around during conversation, and there are infrequent prompts to interrupt proceedings with a positive or negative action - by comforting a grieving mother as she begins to break down, for instance, or more likely by shoving a garrulous mercenary out of a tempting window.

Even when the game removes direct interaction from proceedings, it's only to facilitate fantastic action set-pieces, and these continue to branch and play out depending on the things you have set in motion. The way your inclinations influence proceedings has also changed in conversation, with the bonus conversation options - the simplistic but effective opposing duo of persuasion or intimidation - now available depending on your overall alignment rather than where you manually stick your skill points, allowing you to focus those fruits of the combat experience on upgrading combat abilities instead.

These too are simplified and consolidated. When the original Mass Effect was first released, cover-based shooting was becoming all the rage and the game suffered criticism for its restrictive, slightly clumsy interpretation, but Mass Effect 2 is unlikely to face the same complaints, with smoother handling and the majority of locations designed to suit its few remaining limitations rather than emphasise them.

There is also a better heads-up display to help decipher an enemy's vital statistics - its health, but also shields and barriers - and colour coding assists in establishing which abilities to deploy in response. Attacking and healing options have also been brought together in a tighter control scheme and interface, so you are rarely in any doubt where to reach for something or what a button does, even though you retain the ability to create combat shortcuts and order your choice of two wingmen around.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 3

Many shops also stock souvenirs, my favourites being the space hamster you can buy for the captain's quarters. Also, remember to feed the fish.

This increased user-friendliness is evident throughout the game, with unintrusive pop-ups to inform you where to look for clarification among the better-organised menus, and elements like the confusing inventory system stripped away so that swapping to a new gun no longer involves digging out the manual. Thanks to technology apparently pilfered from the first game's Geth enemies, we also now have, er, guns that you reload manually, rather than guns that you fire for a few seconds then stand around waiting to cool down. It's symptomatic of the way the fiction has been lovingly refined to accommodate superior mechanics.

While the list of possible abilities and specialisations may look short when you first encounter it, the range of options also increases as you hit certain milestones, and unlike the first game, which linked certain elements of character progression to a specific "rogue VI" mission that not everyone bothered to do, the sequel makes these developments and the processes by which you unlock them more inviting.

Despite some theoretically brutal refinements (no weapon drops!), the game can't be accused of dumbing down, either, as things that seem to be gone are often still there to discover in a more logical way, and the simplification frees you to experiment in a manner that the first game struggled to encourage. Certain biotic and tech powers are analogous to one another (incinerate and throw might as well both be called "homing fireball", for example), but other class-specific powers are more exotic, and allow for tactics that suit the challenges of the game's harder difficulty settings.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 4

Despite all the arguments last time about elevators, your new ship is split across four floors, still accessed by elevator. Fortunately the load times are much better.

The changes, and the rewards BioWare provides for players resuming from a Mass Effect save-file, are such that veterans of the first game are unlikely to find themselves overmatched for the rank-and-file enemies of the first few hours - but it is unlikely they would be bored even if they were. Your character inherits his moral decisions but can be re-specced completely, and the universe is a richer, more personal place for those who sought out the first game's side missions and spoke to its broad cast.

Rather like last year's Assassin's Creed II, Mass Effect 2 remembers that looting the places you visit is rather enjoyable as well, and this is infused at a fundamental level. In order to buy upgrade schematics and other items you collect credits, and these are located in wall safes, locked caches and numerous other places, often hidden behind hacking and circuit-breaking mini-games (the former addictive and tense, the latter slightly prosaic), while separate data pads fill in story blanks and open new side-mission possibilities.

Every mission's combat sequences are inevitably broken up by quieter moments when you rummage through the surrounding area for loot - credits, schematics, medi-gel and trinkets - and your new ship has caught the looting bug too. You may be on a very important mission to discover why human colonists have been disappearing, but you can also stop off at other unexplored planets to loot them for minerals, by way of a compelling mini-game where you probe the surface and watch for surges on a neighbouring oscilloscope.

Planet and space station design, whether as part of story missions or on side quests, is equally assured. While the Citadel - a futuristic meeting place and seat of the galaxy-policing Council - returns, you no longer visit its embassy lounges and wards but instead wander around its equivalent of the tax-free mall you usually find after security at the airport. (You are also armed with a map that actually helps you to navigate it.) New locations, meanwhile, are more exotic, and often double up as brilliant fan service.

Most locations are now home to multiple story missions too, and feel more like real places as a result. The grimy, corrupt and partially plague-ridden Omega station, for example, and the seductive Asari commerce planet of Ilium. Your activities are also more diverse, like using maintenance gantries to tail a politician, and it's not unusual for a mission to transport you to a separate area away from the throng of general planetary activity when it gets to the business end of proceedings.

If you can visit the surface of a planet, you won't be driving around for hours only to discover you don't have the tech skill to open a particular crate, either (in fact you won't be driving at all, as BioWare has ditched the Mako buggy). You can only land on hub planets or those that have a specific side-quest available, but the fact the latter "anomalies" lurk within dense systems of other planets that are ripe for mining enhances the feeling of exploration, while the rewards are more worthwhile financially and experientially.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 5

Shepard still looks like he's having a stroke when you start flirting with somebody on the crew, but the romantic options are more interesting overall.

When you touch down, you may have to map a path through dense fog using laser beacons, or investigate the crash site of a space hulk teetering over a precipice, or rifle through records of a Cerberus operative's interrogation as his sad, mangled corpse lies nearby, and no two side missions are really alike in pace or tone. These extra planets are rarely as gripping as the main story, but they do an excellent job filling out the universe, and ensure that you really never do know what to expect when you circle for landing.

That main story is the star turn though, and one of the reasons is that it remains simplistic while a complex belt of orbiting social and political circumstances enhance its sense of gravity, inviting you to behave as your conscience guides but forcing you into situations that lack clear moral imperatives. Overall the events and places of Mass Effect 2 embellish the sensation, bred throughout the original, that space is every bit as mythological and diverse as the old worlds of high fantasy to which RPGs are so frequently and unimaginatively confined, but that in space it's rather more difficult to predict what you will encounter.

With the fate not only of the galaxy and your crew but the nature of your experience in Mass Effect 3 hanging in the balance, it's also easier than ever to suspend your disbelief and empathise with the characters you gather to your team, and when important decisions have to be made you feel the actual pressure of your own accumulated choices and future. Better than perhaps any RPG in recent memory, Mass Effect 2 even justifies the size of its ensemble by the time of its excellent conclusion, and it does more to develop your interest in fellow team members in the process, whether or not you end up liking them.

'Mass Effect 2' Screenshot 6

You may miss the Mako, but by the end of the game you may have forgotten all about it. Until the Hammerhead DLC, anyway.

Even in a genre where depth and scale are frequently overwhelming, Mass Effect 2 was built upon staggering ambition - although to describe developer BioWare as ambitious is nothing new - but what is surprising is how well it handles the transition from original to sequel despite the need to support a variety of levels of experience and expertise, and how well it satisfies its players today while inviting anticipation for what must follow. Play it more than once, especially with different save-files to begin from, and it's hard not to admire the flexibility, and the way key decisions, friendships and experiences change the dramatic resonance of the story subtly but importantly. All this despite the greater heft and complexity of the universe and the game's broader branches and longer runtime.

Mass Effect 2 is more than an academic exercise, however, because whether or not you come to it afresh, and whether or not you ever see it through more than once, your experience won't just have been an acceptable storytelling throughline in a ludicrous simultaneous equation, it will have been fantastic adventure full of memorable characters, places and events that justify its grand scale and sober disposition.

In a generation of great RPGs, those accomplishments are magnificent individually but superlative in concert. Even so, perhaps BioWare's greatest success in Mass Effect 2 has been taking a complex RPG and making it effortless to understand, play and enjoy on a constant basis, because it has done this in a manner that should prove utterly essential to veterans and newcomers alike, and more than enough to suggest Mass Effect 3 will be the most important game in BioWare's history.

10 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (331) 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • nixc9 #1 2 years ago

    got bored very fast with the first one. Horrible vehicle sections, empty places to wander around, dialog lines with NPCs that came out before they would make any sense (i.e. referring to characters/facts that hadn't happened yet).
    Still, tempted by this one....

  • f00b_inc #2 2 years ago

    Not enough time or money! Is it worth playing this one without having gone through the first? I should I start at the beginning...
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 08:10

  • mattlee #3 2 years ago

    @nixc9 I felt much the same. Bored quite quickly despite loving both KOTOR games.

  • thenastypasty #4 2 years ago

    Why can't it be Friday NOW:-)

  • Aretak #5 2 years ago

    @f00b_inc: It really is worth playing the first one... well, first, as a lot of major decisions from it carry over. Of course, you can just make those choices arbitrarily near the start of ME2, but it's going to be more fun to have your own canon set up.

  • muscleblade #6 2 years ago

    I got the game early from a friend in my local Game shop. So far the game seems like a huge improvement over the oiginal. The original tended to be quite a shore sometimes imo. ME2 is a lot more fun to play and the combat is actually very good this time. ME2 is to ME what AC2 is to AC.

  • karooo #7 2 years ago

    Brilliant review this game is one of the best this Gen.

    Bioware

    /claps

  • Lovemoose #8 2 years ago

    Friday can't come soon enough. I'm pretty much certain that this will be a worthy 10.

  • Scribble #9 2 years ago

    Just finished Mass Effect in preparation for this. Never managed to get past the first Mako section before (spec'ing purely for increased conversation options via Charm made for a gimped Shepard... Still I loved the RPG feel of being able to talk people round). This time I persevered and it was amazing. Can't wait for 2!

  • JohnnyWashnGo #10 2 years ago

    Is it too early for...

    GOTY 2010?

  • David_Richardson #11 2 years ago

    @nixc9 / @f00b_inc

    I'm in exactly the same position - I loved the KOTOR games but got stuck at a certain point on ME and realised I had no desire or motivation to carry on. I may go back and try it again. If I find it more alluring second time around the sequel should have dropped in price by the time I get through it comprehensively.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 08:22

  • MrTeatime #12 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:59:18 03-01-2012

  • Vice.Destroyer #13 2 years ago

    I am not even going to read the review. Skimmed to the last page. Felt vindicated that my choice to pre-order was the correct one for a change. Even though all the exclusive pre-order incentives were released by accident yesterday anyway. But roll on friday. I want to save the universe again.

  • MORZTAN #14 2 years ago

    There is a funny mechanism inside me that MAKES me buy all games Eurogamer rewards with a 10. Mostly because they are right every frickin time.

    Now I'm gonna have to buy Mass Effect in order to fully enjoy Mass Effect 2.... Thank you Eurogamer. As if I haven´t got enough games to play already....
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 08:29

  • Zomoniac #15 2 years ago

    So they've ditched the vehicle, make the combat good and got rid of the texture pop-in and elevators that made the last one an unplayable mess? Cool. I'm slightly concerned about the GT review's claim that it's very heavily geared towards people who played through the first one (which I never could due to the above reasons) although this review suggests otherwise.

    Anyone know if they've put in a "I hate RPGs" mode that will just auto-level everything using common sense so I can play the game instead of spending most of it in upgrade menus?

  • Bitkari #16 2 years ago

    0_0

  • FutureDave #17 2 years ago

    "BioWare has ditched the Mako buggy"

    That's all I needed to hear.

  • Blerk #18 2 years ago

    Mass Effect was totally amazing, despite what appeared to be the wonkiest engine in existence and a number of glaring irritations. I'd have bought the sequel even without all of that stuff fixed. Given that it is fixed.... no brainer.

  • MORZTAN #19 2 years ago

    Also, that woman in white has to be the most sexy game character EVER!

  • Eraysor #20 2 years ago

    That'll be GOTY 2010 sorted then. It's brilliant.

  • LHH #21 2 years ago

    Loved the first one and seeing a 10/10 from you guys is pretty much making me curse the release date as I thought it was out on the 26th over here! Much to my dismay when I logged into Game last friday and saw the date being the 29th for the EU.
    Can't bloody wait

  • mikeck #22 2 years ago

    I think I'm the only person I know that really enjoyed driving around in the Mako. I liked to break up the main story by landing on planets and just driving around as much of the surface as possible, discovering random things, and just barrelling off hills.

    I have no doubt that ME2 will be all the better for the removal of the Mako, I'm just going to miss it a little that's all ;)

  • Emmit_Assassin #23 2 years ago

    Is it Friday yet? What do you mean no? For f**k sake!

  • Dismiss #24 2 years ago

    Yeah, I don't see it, based on the first one. Had to actually force myself to complete it a full year after I bought it. Goes without saying I'll give this one a try as well, but I don't expect a masterpiece. Still, improved combat and an equally good storyline should make for a fun 25 hours.

  • Drpwnage #25 2 years ago

    Although I played through the first game on the 360, I finished it 2 years ago. Perhaps it is age, but I don't remember the decisions I made and would rather start from fresh with the PC version and use the character creator as a refresher.

    I do remember however, the only complete play through I managed was a Male Shepard with Paragon decision choices in the main and I would rather play through ME2 as a character with Renegade leanings and a Female Shepard as I felt the voice acting was superior and I believe the actors have reprised their roles.

  • qoobah #26 2 years ago

    I didn't read the review, since I don't want to risk even minor spoilers in it, but just wanted to say that I'm really happy about the score.

    Happy like a bunny :D:D:D

  • UncleLou #27 2 years ago

    so I can play the game instead of spending most of it in upgrade menus?

    Reading your post, I think you should simply play a different game altogether.

  • Zomoniac #28 2 years ago

    I think I'm the only person I know that really enjoyed driving around in the Mako. I liked to break up the main story by landing on planets and just driving around as much of the surface as possible, discovering random things, and just barrelling off hills.

    That would've been nice. The problem wasn't exploring in it, it was actually controlling it. Horrible thing. Especially in combat.

  • bad09 #29 2 years ago

    I would just like to say anyone who gets this on Friday you are scum, scum, scum, scum. Utter utter scum. Damn you, damn you all to hell!!!

    / has nothing to trade, has bills to pay, will have to wait a couple of weeks, wants AvP and Bioshock aswell :(

    Spare change anyone? Wash your car sir? Free copy of ME2? lottery win? Want a Kidney? ANYTHING! Come on I got these cheeseburgers man.... :(

    / Shuffles back to unplayed Steam list from Christmas. Begrudgingly...

  • Bennicus #30 2 years ago

    I love reading SF and fantasy but can never seem to keep myself awake through anything Bioware's "written" (read: cobbled together from a bucket of cliches). Still if the combat is improved it sounds like they've wisely focused on the least tedious part of the previous game, might be worth borrowing from a mate!

  • LHH #31 2 years ago

    @mikeck

    You're definitely not the only one who loved exploring barren planets in the mako.

  • mikeck #32 2 years ago

    That would've been nice. The problem wasn't exploring in it, it was actually controlling it. Horrible thing. Especially in combat.

    It was a tricky beast to get to grips with initially, but I soon learnt to love the erratic thing, like a mad old aunt :)

  • TOOTR #33 2 years ago

    Oh my days. 2010 is kicking off to a wallet-smashing start!

  • Quint2020 #34 2 years ago

    Bloody hell, this may be the game that breaks my "Don't buy games at full price" promise to myself..... It's not even February yet!

  • mmmestari #35 2 years ago

    I will kill someone if I don't get this game Friday

  • Darren #36 2 years ago

    I knew it would get a 10... not that I'm complaining as this is going to be the first game I've bought this year and, indeed, the first must-have game of 2010. I'm deeply excited about playing it too as I thought the original was genius despite the technical shortcomings of the 360 version (framerate issues, texture pop in, screen tearing, looooooooong loading times, etc.).

    Granted, I fleeced through the review to avoid any potential spoilers but a few things stood out. One is that there was no mention of the fact that the 360 version has massively improved graphics over the original in terms of framerate, texture pop in, screen tearing (there's none of the latter apparently) and a better lighting system. The second is that the Mako is gone. That's disappointing to hear as that was a fun element of the first game as it added to the sense of exploring a strange new planet. The only issue with the first game wasn't the Mako anyway, it was the fact that the planets tended to all feel identical bar the backdrop with samey building layouts and very little to discover. All BioWare needed to do was to add more variety and they could have kept the Mako bits. Oh well. Finally, how come audio seldom gets a mention in EG reviews: it goes without saying that the voice-acting was great in the first game but the music especially was magnificent and contributed significantly to its atmosphere IMO. Is this true of the sequel or is it even better?

    I'm just trying to finishing a second run through of the PC version ready for Friday so I can import my character who is currently on level 37 (Wrex has survived in this one!!!). I also found an old 360 save game of my level 54 character on a memory unit (where Wrex is dead alas) so I've decided to buy both versions of the game so I can switch between them as I choose. The PC version will obviously have better graphics and U.I. improvements but it doesn't support the controller so that's why I've opted to buy the 360 version as well so I relax in front of a big HDTV with surround sound.

    Can't wait.

  • dr_swin #37 2 years ago

    I don't often have any cause for complaint with EG reviews but was all that plot description really necessary?

  • Tonka #38 2 years ago

    Has it got PORN?

  • lennon #39 2 years ago

    Now I am regretting all that time spent playing domination in MW2! :(

    Mass Effect tonight me thinks!

  • chukcyQ #40 2 years ago

    I want to have unprotected sex and see nipples in the game!

  • 43n1m4 #41 2 years ago

    I'll wait to read the review thoroughly 'til I've played the game - but a 10/10 does sound promising.. Played through ME 2-3 times on the Xbox360 (despite the technical flaws) and had, to say the least, a great time - with the changes to the sequel, this could turn out to be one of the really important games for both the Xbox360 console, and gaming in general.. if you're into RPG games, that is.

  • BabyJesus #42 2 years ago

    Dear Bioware,

    I love you.

  • Yossarian #43 2 years ago

    U guys seen da Reviews on other Web-sites??

    dis new Bioware joint doin UNCHARTED 2 numbers rite now....

  • muscleblade #44 2 years ago

    "I'm not complaining as this is going to be the first game I've bought this year and, indeed, the first must-have game of 2010. "

    I definently think Bayonetta for the 360 is a must have game just as much as this. Even Darksiders is a must have game imo. This year is starting great and it doesnt seem to stop anytime soon.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 09:05

  • Vroom #45 2 years ago

    Suits you sir!

  • Roamer #46 2 years ago

    Don't like the sound of no loot drops, and fewer RPG-bearings. Preferred Dragon Age's depth and customisation options. Still, must...order...now..

  • Ignatius_Cheese #47 2 years ago

    Guess I best finally get round to playing the first one... :o/

  • Yossarian #48 2 years ago

    [link url=http://www.metacritic.com/games /platforms/xbox360/masseffect2?tag=topslot;title;1
    ]http://ww w.metacritic.com/games/platform...[/link]

    jus look at dese scores!!!

    I hearin gamers in da Streetz be feenin for dis new Bioware joint,,,,

    UNCHARTED 2 NUMBERS RITE HERE 360 FANS,

    2010 already on Lockdown,,....

  • Beek4257 #49 2 years ago

    Played through ME again last month. It was better then I remembered, actually. The Mako still was a clumsy piece of kit, but not in a hatefull way (imho) and the elevator rides made for perfect snack/drink/cig breaks.

    Still can't believe that b!tch killed Wrex again though, as a was trying to keep him alive this time ...

  • Widge #50 2 years ago

    Must. Finish. First. One.

    I've started that 3 fooking times now. I stupidly didn't back up my save on a reinstall. Mong. Luckily I've now got it in Steam so all should be gravy!

    I really like ME and I tried so hard to hate it. So take that as some sort of stamp of awesomeness. I thought that KOTOR was absolutely terrible and as ME was pitched as KOTOR without the licence, it was most likely guff as well. Actually turned out to be really good, visually stunning too.

  • dr_faulk #51 2 years ago

    Ltl. La Forge! Divert all 1st Quarter funds to the Mass EffectZzZzZz!!! I want it in my hard (warp) drivez!

  • Killerbee #52 2 years ago

    Excellent review and I really can't wait for this to arrive. Roll on Friday...!

  • bluem4gic #53 2 years ago

    Can't eurogamer do a spolier free review?

  • busboy33 #54 2 years ago

    @mikeck:

    "It was a tricky beast to get to grips with initially, but I soon learnt to love the erratic thing, like a mad old aunt :)"

    Amen. When you got good with the Mako, it gave you a real sense of accomplishment, like riding a bronco.

    Especially on the intense-mountain-and-canyon" planets. Looking at an impassable range, charging that bad boy, and somehow managing to bounce/fall/slide/pray your way over it was awesome.

    Hopefully the Hammerhead sections of the DLC will have some of that.

    p.s.: currently playing ME2 . . . and DEAR GOD ITS BEAUTIFUL!!!

  • Bulbatron #55 2 years ago

    This sounds great! Recently played through the original to get a good save file.

  • Eisenstein #56 2 years ago

    Better than DA? Hard to believe, but that would be nice.

  • andywilkie35 #57 2 years ago

    What other score could this have possibly got. I haven't been this excited for a game since...well Assassin's Creed 2, but before that its been a long time!

    Now to sack off all weekend plans to play this non stop.

  • siro #58 2 years ago

    Wow, didn't expect a 10. I wasn't a massive ME2 fan (personal 7/10) and I really don't remember any of the "important" decisions in the first one...

    No really, does anyone who played ME near launch remember what they did and what not in the original?

  • metalangel #59 2 years ago

    I enjoyed the Mako bits... The jump jets were fun, as was tearing through a pirate base running over soldiers and blowing up watchtowers. Less fun was falling off the Skyway on Feros while I tried to have a sip of beer. It gave the planets a sense of being actual alien worlds, not just yet another grey concrete space outpost with a spectacular landscape only enjoyed through a window. That planet with red and blue stars was especially striking. Anyhow, won't be buying this for some time, partly because of the DLC thing and partly because I still have a lot of Dragon Age left...

  • Yossarian #60 2 years ago

    DIS THE GAME OF 4EVA RITE HURR

    DOIN UNCHARTED NUMBERS RITE HURR

    HATERZ 2 DA BACK UP IN DIS PLACE

    PS3 D. O. A, IN 2010

  • muscleblade #61 2 years ago

    2010 seems to be a great year to own a 360.

    Bayonetta and ME2 is scoring average above 90. Then we have Crackdown 2, Splinter cell, Halo reach, Alan Wake and more.
    Even a Capcom 360 exclusive is on the way.

    edit: Its also a great year to own a PS3 for sure so dont take it the wrong way.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 11:59

  • SentientNr6 #62 2 years ago

    DUDE! This review starts as a big spoiler. sigh!

  • miiiguel #63 2 years ago

    It is that good and ppl like Anthony_Daniels_the_bad_karma is not going to play it because it's boring, and the 360 has no games and shit.

    Life is good.

  • ignatiusjreilly #64 2 years ago

    The only improvement I'm hoping for is better combat, which was a little weak in the first. The review touches on this but no specifics.

    Regardless, I agree that the best thing about ME was the story and with a smaller, more compact world than Dragon Age the story was a bit tighter and more focused. There aren't many games where I really want to know what happens next, and if this game tells a story half as well as the first, it'll be alright with me :D

  • OnlyMe #65 2 years ago

    I just ordered Demon's Souls just to convince myself I didn't have to buy this game on launch. It didn't work.

  • miiiguel #66 2 years ago

    Anyway, first ME was already top quality material, and it was the typical game EG (and maybe others) rushed to review it and didn't "get it".

  • NoKamiFujiwara #67 2 years ago

    Does anyone happen to know whether the Collector's Edition really arrives a week late or not? If it does, I just might have to buy the same game twice, although then I would have to refrain from downloading any extra content for a week so that I could sell the standard edition... decisions, decisions!

  • metalgearsolid4rox #68 2 years ago

    I'm not the biggest fan of RPGs..but now I'm interested...

  • videogangs #69 2 years ago

    Ditching the Mako altogether may have just sold me on this...

  • superdelphinus #70 2 years ago

    quite excited about this now. I got bored with the first one though and stopped playing about half way through. Is it worth finishing the first one before starting with this one?

  • redopalfruit #71 2 years ago

    @Roamer Dragon Age on the 360 was one of the buggiest games I've ever played on any format. And the loot sucked - the blood dragon armor from the DLC was better than practically everything else in the game. When your characters get "confused" when you switch from the "stand still" mode to the "follow me" mode it's a bad sign - bioware really dropped the ball there IMO. I enjoyed the game, but it was a frustrating experience and one which I felt was disappointing overall.

    From the sounds of things they've focused on the right stuff here - making the core gameplay more accessible (stupid inventory management was horrible in ME1) and not doing a dodgy PC to console conversion like they did with DA:o.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #72 2 years ago

    @ Mogs: if you can't read 3 pages of text, Mass Effect is no game for you. You shouldn't bother with it even if it gets "cheap of Steam", imo.

  • creepylizard #73 2 years ago

    Anyone else find Yoss really, really unironically boring?
    No?
    Alright then

  • TruSmiles #74 2 years ago

    Can't afford to buy it (My game quota is already full) but I'll borrow it off my house mate. Until then, I'll strangle him every time he mentions it :(

  • fjharps #75 2 years ago

    Local game store already selling it and already got myself a copy. The problem is due to having a new xbox (last one was smashed by 1 yr old daughter) i am currently replaying the first one again as i lost all my saved game (the previous hdd didn't survive) now what do i am half way through the first one but really want to play the new one what a DILEMMA lol loving the experience of going through the first one again as my first playthrough i was a bit overwhelmed by it.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 10:06

  • TonyCocaCola #76 2 years ago

    I can see myself cramming a playthrough of mass effect 1 this week...

    I wish i didnt delete my old save!

  • Darren #77 2 years ago

    One thing I've noticed from reading the reviews across the world wide web is that there's mentions of crashing issues with the 360 version (oh-oh) as well as instances of sound dropping out in places and characters getting stuck on scenery. The IGN and TeamXbox reviews both mention these. I hope those issues are quickly patched.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #78 2 years ago

    What about the tearing... on the 360 version, Darren? I bet there's some tearing... on the 360 version, oh-oh!

    :)

  • EvilBob_leeds #79 2 years ago

    Lovely. It's a day 1 purchase.

    I'm kind of hoping that this makes up for Dragon Age. Not that DA:o isn't good, but it's not great. In terms of world exploration and available locations it's a bit pants, and there's a fair few bugs too (on the PC version). But what really annoyed me is the lack of imagination that went into the world itself - Dwarves? Check. Elves? Check. Orcy things and ogres? Check. Ents? Check. Toss in a few demons and dragons and you've pretty much got the DA universe. I'm pretty sure I've seen that brood mother before too. The only thing that's not completely derivative in the whole idea of the fade.

    Not that things in the ME universe aren't a little derivative - there does seem to be a bit of Cylon in the Geth - but there's enough free reign and imagination to really make the world stand out and feel unpredicatable. And thank god they got rid of the rubbish open world tank driving bits.

    Sorry for the OT rant. I've just given up smoking, and after playing through 90% of Dragon age, I'm feeling irate that it isn't better.
    Edited by 2 at 26/01/10 @ 10:37

  • Darren #80 2 years ago

    @ziggy_played_guitar - As far as I'm aware the tearing was one of the things BioWare fixed for the sequel (yippee!) as I mentioned in my earlier post so, no, I won't be worrying about that. :p

  • Monkey_Puncher #81 2 years ago

    I felt the same way about the first game like some of the early posters, that was until last Friday when I sat down and gave the game another go. First time playing I really didn't like the combat and I found the environments to be empty and static. This time through though it's grabbed me by the ears and won't let go, it's certainly a slow burn when you start off, and the rather empty areas are a bit off putting, but give it time and I reckon it has enough fantastic story telling to grab most people who enjoy sci-fi to a certain level (I'm no Star Trek fan and Star Wars was so so, give me Aliens or the The Thing over those things any day of the week).

    Only problem is I now have a massive game to get through at least once, maybe twice before I even think about picking up Mass Effect 2 (I'm told once you play the sequel you'll find it really hard to go back to the original).

    Still can't complain, I'm loving the game long time!

  • cianchristopher #82 2 years ago

    YES!!!!

    That's what I wanted to hear, I already bought the game a week ago on Steam - nice to see it living up to expectations...

    I'd say this'll be a 94/95 on Metacritic - big-time, baby, big-time!!!

  • TeaFiend #83 2 years ago

    Reads more like an 11 to be honest.

  • telboy007 #84 2 years ago

    Yippee!

    That is all.

  • kangarootoo #85 2 years ago

    One of my first pre-orders in I don't know how long. Even toying with the idea of booking a day off work just to play it.

    This is unheard of.

  • muscleblade #86 2 years ago

    I agreed with Kristans Mass Effect review. 8/10 was a good score.
    ME2 is so much better so a 10/0 seems right.

  • Darren #87 2 years ago

    The 360 version is v-synced as confirmed here by the wonderful Digital Foundry: [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/ articles/mass-effect-2-tech-upgrades-set-to-impress-blog-ent ry
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/mass-e...[/link]

    :)

  • lucky_jim #88 2 years ago

    @ Von Adder

    "Jeebus kids today (should force em all into camps with nothing but a zx speccy to play on)"

    Agreed. Making them load Chase HQ from tape should get them to stfu about Mass Effect's lifts!

  • LHH #89 2 years ago

    I'm hearing dodgy things about the Cerberus Network not working for people owning the CE, anyone know anymore on this? Something to do with an EA account linked to the same email as your xbox although I'm none to sure.
    Basically people with the CE cannot get the DLC without paying for it

  • sargulesh #90 2 years ago

    this game looks dumm

    already suffered babylon 5 and ds9 the first time round

    those shows were cancelled fr a reason

  • BOFH_UK #91 2 years ago

    Managed to pick up the first game for a fiver on the weekend in preperation for this... sadly won't have finished the game by Friday but I guess that means I can just keep an eye out for decent deals until I do get through everything. Certainly the first game is great so if this fixes the little annoyances and keeps the story rocking along then that's more than good enough.

    BTW, does anyone else wish that more games did what this series does and have a proper series of games where your actions in one affects subsequent titles? Assassin's Creed springs to mind as an exampe of a series that could have done something special with that idea.

  • TopKatt #92 2 years ago

    Never played the first one, but I think that review has finally convinced me to jump into the ME universe. This is gonna be the first game I've bought for my PC for about a year!

  • cianchristopher #93 2 years ago

    Year of the PS3, right here...

  • PlugMonkey #94 2 years ago

    I read as far as "All of a sudden a massive, unknown alien ship assaults them." in paragraph three and then ran of with my fingers in my ears going "BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH!".

    I don't need a review anyway. This is the first game I have pre-ordered in as long as I can remember. This is largely because the Sheppard we created is one of my favourite characters in either video games or sci-fi.

  • Joco84 #95 2 years ago

    Well done BioWare, wish they ported them over to PS3 so I could have a go. Alas, will just have to applaud their efforts for bringing this stellar sequel out.

  • Zephro #96 2 years ago

    DO WANT

  • Darren #97 2 years ago

    @sargulesh - Babylon 5 lasted five seasons and Star Trek: Deep Space 9 lasted seven. Neither series was 'cancelled' either; they lasted their entire intended runs. :p

  • BritishBlue1 #98 2 years ago

    WHERE'S THE NEAREST FUCKING SHOP?! I NEED A 360 NOOOOOOOOW

    /Charges out the door

  • oupe #99 2 years ago

    Could somebody please explain to me how part 1 evolved? All I can remember I was in some woods and had to shoot annoying things using an annoying interface with vague weapons. Later on I was at some industrial site shooting annoying things, etc. I gave up there.

  • ryandsimmons #100 2 years ago

    @ oef! After that area you finish the introduction and begin the game... you played 6 minutes by the sound of it.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 10:53

  • cianchristopher #101 2 years ago

    I think it's looking increasingly likely that the Xbox 360 will go down in history as the best console ever released (from a software point-of-view, of course - the hardware's sorely lacking, unfortunately)....

  • ocmerius #102 2 years ago

    Been playing it for 5 days now and it's awesome.
    It's better in almost every respect compared to the first one, we might have our GOTY here already.
    And I think Miranda must be the most sexy game character EVAH!

  • Mr_Dodger #103 2 years ago

    Has anyone got a definitive answer as to whether the CE comes in the tin like the US version? After being screwed over recently with Arkham Asylum and Dragon Age which both had very shoddy CE's compared to the US equivalents, I'm a bit wary.

  • geeza2020 #104 2 years ago

    who are these bastards that have had the game for a few days already? Where are you getting your pre-orders from? Just so i know for the future. ahem. I. WANT. THIS. GAME.

  • RedSparrows #105 2 years ago

    Shut up, Hammerhead.

    Awesome, so mine, so mine.

  • udat #106 2 years ago

    It's quite hard to review a game (or film, book, whatver) without mentioning the story, especially as the story is one of the biggest selling points of this game. I thought the review did a remarkably good job of avoiding spoilers, only really talking about things that have been mentioned repeatedly in all the preview material.

  • TopKatt #107 2 years ago

    lol at hammerhead.

  • cianchristopher #108 2 years ago

    Well, Uncharted 2 is actually a masterful game...

    But the PS3 is like the GameCube or Xbox of this generation, with a number of superb games; while the Xbox 360 is like the PS2 of this generation, with a much bigger number of superb games...

  • Widge #109 2 years ago

    oh shit, I foresee a list war on the horizon
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 11:05

  • sargulesh #110 2 years ago

    lol @ cian

  • cianchristopher #111 2 years ago

    lol @ sargulesh

  • Crashmasters #112 2 years ago

    Played it already. Still playing it. Will play it again.
    This is one of those rare games that keeps you up way too long and brings your social life to a standstill.

  • Xeopuppy #113 2 years ago

    I am Downloading it now as I type since I bought it from EA Store I should be playing it tonight...

  • sargulesh #114 2 years ago

    lol @ tom bramwell

  • cianchristopher #115 2 years ago

    lol @ BioWare

  • thedaveeyres #116 2 years ago

    Dancing Monster

  • cianchristopher #117 2 years ago

    Stupid Xbots with their grey/brown generic shooters...

    We PS3 owners have GT5, Heavy Rain, White Knight Chronicles, Lair, Home, Haze, Resistance 2 (teh Halo killer), and many more - so I'm not worried by all your 10/10s and superior multiplatform games....

    2008 - year of the PS3! 2009 - year of the PS3! 2010 - year of the PS3! 2011 - year of the PS3! 2012 - year of the PS3!

  • the_dudefather #118 2 years ago

    Cian in 'trying to hard' shocker, more at 11

  • cianchristopher #119 2 years ago

    It's already 11.17, dudefather....

  • cianchristopher #120 2 years ago

    MAG's gonna blow this out of the water... (with its inevitable 7/10)...

  • VicViper #121 2 years ago

    Well good thing this comment thread stayed on topic.

    In happy new my pre-order for the Collected edition is being processed according to game. I guessing that the CE is a tin but the cover art is good enough to be alright even if its card. CE cover art is getting better these days case in point the Prince of persia (the cell shaded one) and the Bayonetta Climax edition.

  • metalmike25 #122 2 years ago

    wow when did we stop talking about the game that was reviewed and started shooting our loads over big blocks of plastic!?

    Gonna have another go at Mass Effect this weekend, they seem to have put a lot of work into the backstory and the world and that kind of attention to detail is something that i like. If the storyline is good enough i can forgive flawed gameplay

  • Widge #123 2 years ago

    More at 11:30!

  • NoKamiFujiwara #124 2 years ago

    There there now, cian, take it easy. While not having the same replay value as Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2 remains a masterpiece, and I think Heavy Rain is going to be a very refreshing experience at the least.

    I've been trying hard to convince a PS3 devout friend of mine (who is in no way short of cash) to get an XO just to play the Mass effect series. Maybe he'll come around after seeing ME2 being played. Not. Owning both consoles makes one a happier being iz all I can say.

  • kangarootoo #125 2 years ago

    @cianchristopher

    No, go on. I think its working. Maybe you just need to shout louder. Try uppercase perhaps.




    I have to wonder what the motivation is for some people. I imagine it is sexual in some way.

  • Hindle #126 2 years ago

    What has the Ps3 got to do with Mass Effect 2 getting good scores? Jeez people can turn anything into a fanboy war

  • kangarootoo #127 2 years ago

    Seriously though, for a while we were doing well just marking down any comments that were platform fanboy nonsense, regardless of which side of the fence they fell. Now we are responding (me included).

    I suggest we just mark down and don't respond in any other way. This thread was nice for quite a while, and now it risks turning into the usual shit. I guess it will happen eventually, but we can stem the tide. Maybe the little kids will get bored and move on.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 11:33

  • El-Dev #128 2 years ago

    Cian clearly wants to get his name mentioned on the podcast again. Obviously Mummy and Daddy didn't give him enough attention.

    Good review.

  • metalmike25 #129 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    hahaha i think you hit the nail on the head with the sexual explanation for some of the comments here. Freud would have a field day with some of the people here if he was still alive

  • Weezer #130 2 years ago

    I know posting here is largely a pointless and self-serving exercise, but I want to declare my love of Mass Effect and I couldn't be more excited about ME2. It's a definite Friday morning purchase, then kick the missus out on Saturday for a full day's play. Sounds like every single flaw and niggle of the first game has been eradicated - though I am sorry not to need the Mako, at least for a few surface trips. Assassin's Creed 2 ending will have to wait now - I have anew universe to explore!

  • Zebula77 #131 2 years ago

    I want this. Don't have a 360 yet tho. :p

  • kangarootoo #132 2 years ago

    @El-Dev

    The -1 was me, trying to amke my point. Nothing personal :)

  • Lionheart #133 2 years ago

    RIP MAKO

  • Bagpuss #134 2 years ago

    Sigh....why cant i find RPG's the slightest bit interesting.

    Its a genre i have NEVER been able to get into......tried all the greats, but i find them so tedious after a couple of hours.

  • Gazza_UK #135 2 years ago

    This might cause some sort of anal irruption for some of you, but what happened to the mumblings of this being on Ps3? Ive been wondering for ages. Oh and the game looks cool, im just not into RPGs.

  • Lionheart #136 2 years ago

    @ cianchristopher - You are the most annoying person on the planet. I'm trying to read some decent "Mass Effect comments" here, go have your little PS3 party somewhere else.

  • LHH #137 2 years ago

    Sigh....why cant i find RPG's the slightest bit interesting.

    Because you have a short attention span

  • Uncle_Spanks #138 2 years ago

    @Bagpuss

    I share your pain. I just don't have time to invest in this sort of game. Although I do have time to write a comment :)

  • udat #139 2 years ago

    @Uncle_Spanks

    Presumably while you are at work ;)

  • Moonprince #140 2 years ago

    Don't think I've seen a cian comment. They're always to '-' to show up. Poor cnut.

  • FabricatedLunatic #141 2 years ago

    I'm not sure who's worse, the real spastic fanboys like hammerhead or the regulars trying to provoke them. It's really not that funny, guys.

    But anyway. I love the first game in spite of the flaws, and this one sounds even better. I'm glad I've avoided most of the coverage, though, as there's so much information out there you could more or less experience the game without actually playing it.

  • Darren #142 2 years ago

    @Uncle_Spanks - People over on a PC forum I visit are claiming that the game took them around 16 to 20 hours to complete on Normal but I've read one reviewer claim that he's spent 39 hours playing it. The point I'm making is that you can finish the game quickly in around 20 hours or spend ages doing every single side quest and then replay the game again with a levelled up character if you want, the choice is yours.

    I personally don't think 16-20 hours is long for an RPG (I finished the first game on the 360 in 24 hours) but I don't intend rushing through Mass Effect 2; I'm going to savour it like a fine wine and take my time drinking... erm... playing it.

  • kingmong #143 2 years ago

    praise jeebus! i am going to play the holy fucking shit out of this.

    running through ME1 to refresh my brain at the moment and loving every god damn minute.

  • gjgjg #144 2 years ago

    hmmm, MAG or ME2...
    ahhh help!

  • TheJuriel #145 2 years ago

    I'm currently replaying Mass Effect 1 in preparation for this (and so I remember what quest choices I made and all), and loving it. The only weak point are the Mako sections, so those being gone is a good plus.

    Totally expect ME2 to be the game of the year for me, and in general.

  • peteb #146 2 years ago

    Just picked this up, about to start it off! Glad to see the 10/10 here! :D

  • secombe #147 2 years ago

    Any thoughts on motion sickness? I've not played the first, but if anyone who generally suffers has played it I would love to hear more. Fallout 3 ruined me (3rd person, but the camera still felt very planted in first person so it still made me sick) and I've been looking for a game to get my teeth into ever since.

  • Gastrian #148 2 years ago

    Did the photo caption say space hamster? GO FOR THE EYES BOO!
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 12:35

  • Hantheman #149 2 years ago

    Why does everyone wear onesies in the future?
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 12:31

  • chrisola #150 2 years ago

    sweet need a new RPG after i didn't get on with Dragon Age.

    I have Star Ocean sitting unplayed at home though....

    who am i kidding? I got 3/4 way through the first game so still have my save file, ME2 rental it is!

  • oleros #151 2 years ago

    Guys, why are you referring to Friday as the release day? I've also seen European release set to 29.01 on some poster but here in norway it's on sale from thursday. I know most of you are British, but believe me, we are not used to earlier releases than UK so I find that a bit hard to believe..

  • ignatiusjreilly #152 2 years ago

    It is Friday in the UK unfortunately :(

    edit: Oh, that's on PC though. Don't know if console versions get an earlier release.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 12:46

  • Collymilad #153 2 years ago

    HELL YEAH.

    Cannot wait for this. First one was amazing, not flawless but insanely good nontheless.

    Roll on friday :D

  • Wildsleven #154 2 years ago

    ok mass effect on friday, then dantes inferno.... BIOSHOCK 2! and then heavy rain.... and finally FInal fantasy 13.... SHITE! i'll be busy xD

  • PlugMonkey #155 2 years ago

    Why do Bioware insist on featuring Shepard on absolutely all of their box art and promotional material when the main feature of the game is that Shepard looks absolutely nothing like that for the vast majority of their audience?

  • makeamazing #156 2 years ago

    I think i am about half way through ME... stopped playing it after yet another reinstall of my OS. So want to get this as the combat looked lovely in the videos, but going to have to finish the original first :(... cant justify it really at the moment, especially as i have so many other games half way through.

    I do think this is one of the few games (including the total war expansion), that will sell a bucket load on the PC, which is good news that both are early in the year. :)
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 13:03

  • Bremenacht #157 2 years ago

    Hoo rah. Great review, btw. Just the one spoiler - which Bioware/Microsoft somewhat spoilt themselves anyway in the free DLC - but everything else conveyed exactly what I'd hoped for.

  • Bulbatron #158 2 years ago

    Several sites have mentioned glitches and bugs. If this problem is so widespread, is it something that can or will be patched in the future?

    Regardless, I can't wait for this to come flapping through my letterbox.

  • makeamazing #159 2 years ago

    Usually the question is if the bugs are "Show stoppers", Fallout3 has hardware crashing bugs, AC2 had one bug that was intermitant and prevented finishing the game (while other minor, less problematic issues).. So i do expect it to have bugs, just hopefully nothing serious (I'm pretty sure with the large release anything serious would be fixed pretty quick).

  • Dr.Frappers #160 2 years ago

    Thanks for the spoiler for the opening scene EG.

  • Old_Books #161 2 years ago

    This game is going to eat my life...

    I hope they haven't focused too much on combat, though. Throughly enjoyed everything about the 1st one.

  • Dizzy #162 2 years ago

    I thought ME1 was one of the best RPGs of the last 20 years. Amazing they have improved ME2 by quite a good margin.... impressive and looking forward to diving into deep space.

  • retellect #163 2 years ago

    Can't wait!

  • brazzauk #164 2 years ago

    My first play through took 36 hours, this netted me 42 out of the 50 acheivements. I could see you could complete it in about 20 hours if you skip the mining and some of the side mission, but the game feels the right length, it hooks you in and keeps you playing.

    Not gonna play it again till I can use my cerebus code on Friday and get me some DLC! Best game I have played for a long time (seem to be saying that a bit lately). Just wished I had got the collectors edition now.

    Combat is much tighter, sqaud AI is light years better. Dont miss the mako personally. Checkpointing is much better, character interactions are so much better. The mining probes can get very tedious though, finding element zero can be a real pain in the arse.

    Great story, great characters, great game! This is a must buy game.

  • MightyMouse #165 2 years ago

    Wow, did not expect that. Still, makes a good reason to give up warcraft again.

    edit: also anything starring cast members of chuck is a must-buy.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 13:42

  • fadi299 #166 2 years ago

    the original can be finished in 9 hours!, i know i did..
    this one took me about 20 or so hours, i completed all of that characters side quests but i didn't play any side missions and i didn't do much planet scanning or exploration...

    it'll propably take like 50-60 hours to see everything, which makes it much longer than the original..

  • telboy007 #167 2 years ago

    @Wildsleven - agreed, I'll be busy and very skint! :D A good kind of skint though.

  • Cherub007 #168 2 years ago

    In my quiet moments, I like to imagine Yossarian as a frustrated, tweed clad aristocratic nobleman, idling away the hours sat in his drawing room on his PC, where he lives out online his deep, passionate Harlesden street bwoy fantasy, while intermittently gazing out of the leaded windows at his 12 acres of rolling pastures in the heart of rural Somerset.

    If only it were so.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 13:57

  • muscleblade #169 2 years ago

    How come the UK release date is one day later than the rest of Europe? Strange.
    [link url=http://www.tothegame.com/x360-9085-m ass-effect-2-for-microsoft-xbox-360.html
    ]http://ww w.tothegame.com/x360-9085-mass-...[/link]

    Here in Norway all EA titles releases on a Thursday.

  • septimus #170 2 years ago

    Can't wait.

    Started going through the original again on insane (third run through), got really far but then XBOX live signed me out (and my local user!) so the game promptly failed to save and I lost everything I had done for 4 hours. Quite, quite pissed off.

    Was on my only day off in months, so no idea if I will get the chance to go through it now. No idea how I will get through the sequel, but day one purchase anyway.

  • Retroid #171 2 years ago

    Loved the first game despite its flaws, somehow it was far more than the some of its parts and was one of my favourite games, full stop.

    This one? Gawd blimey, I really can't wait to play this.

    \o/

  • Distributor #172 2 years ago

    Muscleblade: Thats mostly due to a logistics factor here in the nordic. As the products are usually shipped pretty close to the actual release date, slapping a thursday launch here in the Nordics gives 1 day more for us in case the shipment is late. A thursday release is for every EA published game. MS has still the standard friday release regardless of region.

  • bluem4gic #173 2 years ago

    Gameplay preorder posted baby!

  • patchbox360 #174 2 years ago

    need a pc for Mass Effect 2, game will be awesome - wheres the MAG review im sure that game is out tommorrow?

  • RealityCheque #175 2 years ago

    I'd better warn this missus I might be quiet for a while. And possibly not going into work.

    Or showering.

    Or eating.

  • Caspar_Esq. #176 2 years ago

    It just sounds so fucking nerdy.

    Each to their own

  • beckyh #177 2 years ago

    So is this correct in that I can use my old ME1 save and have my stats, weapons and decisions in tact?
    If this is the case I hope Bioware have fixed the autosave problem from the first game as I don't want that to carry over aswell :-))

  • ignatiusjreilly #178 2 years ago

    It just sounds so fucking nerdy.

    Says the man with 'Esquire' at the end of his name...

    Heh, j/k, but this is a sci-fi RPG video game, nerdlike associations are impossible to avoid ;)

  • UncleLou #179 2 years ago

    I am not quite sure yet if I find Caspar's or Crofto's comment more hilarious, help me out here. :D

  • miiiguel #180 2 years ago

    It just sounds so fucking nerdy"
    Says he man with 2995 posts on a computer games website.

    This one wins Lou, Crofto anger is getting old. Same old, same old:
    ooooh, you baboons, I know video-games, OMG I so know them, you don't ! Get it?! Get it?! Fuck, shit, assholes! Punk's not dead! Stuff!"
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 15:33

  • kangarootoo #181 2 years ago

    "It just sounds so fucking nerdy"

    Insecure, much?

  • sneetch #182 2 years ago

    @beckyh
    So is this correct in that I can use my old ME1 save and have my stats, weapons and decisions in tact?

    Damn. Don't suppose they have any magic that allows me to use my 360 save on the PC? :)

    Mind you, I have to finish the 360 version before I get this... I kept getting distracted by starting with different classes. I'll have to bust out vanilla soldier Shepard and just go for it.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 15:57

  • jambo74 #183 2 years ago

    Amazon often deliver Friday games to my house on a Thursday am.

    Well 10 out of the last 12 times anyway.

    Tell me about these deliveries?

    Amazon often deliver Friday games to my house on a Thursday am.

    Well 10 out of the last 12 times anyway.

    How often does this happen?

    Well 10 out of the last 12 times anyway.

    Amazon often deliver Friday games to my house on a Thursday am.

  • Buenos_Estente #184 2 years ago

    Gonna bang out a quick(ish) go on Mass Effect 1, What is the consensus on best character type to play as?

  • Caimbeul #185 2 years ago

    Any spoilers in this review before i read it?

  • Tormeh #186 2 years ago

    So... I deleted ME along with its save games after I played it. Bummer.

  • markb1166 #187 2 years ago

    Friday Please can't wait for this, door to be locked until completion.

  • kangarootoo #188 2 years ago

    "door to be locked until completion."

    Also good instructions to follow whenever you visit a public toilet.

  • urban #189 2 years ago

    i agree with this. it really is a 10/10

  • sneetch #190 2 years ago

    @STKD

    Good attempt at spoiling the story for those who missed the spoilers in the review by skipping it and going straight to the final paragraph and score.

  • ignatiusjreilly #191 2 years ago

    Yeah it's a bit strange to moan about spoilers then copy and paste them for everyone else to read. Use spoiler tags if you have to quote it.

    (spoiler) (/spoiler) but with triangle brackets instead of round ones.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 16:41

  • Paulie_P #192 2 years ago

    Thanks STKD, I haven't seen Empire Strikes back or that episode of the Simpsons!

  • HenryFitz #193 2 years ago

    A dismembered, pulverised corpse is my normal appearance in competitive multiplayer games, so I'm oddly proud that I was able to pilot the Mako without any difficulty whatsoever, considering the many who failed. In your face, losers.

    I'm disappointed that ME2 doesn't seem to contain a Find the Alien's Clitoris minigame to complete the romance subplots. It might be hard to implement with the imprecise Xbox 360 controller, but on PC with its finer control, there's no excuse, surely.

    Edited for imprecise spelling.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 16:54

  • The-Bodybuilder #194 2 years ago

    I can't wait for this.
    ME had flaws, but not to me. To me, it was a masterpiece.

    But I have to say, I don't "get" people that decide beforehand to be a paragon or renegade, or play as a woman (unless you are one). Am I the only person that designed shepherd to look as similar to me as possible? And made choices based on what I wanted/decided, not on how I wanted to "experience the game"?

    I'm sure I'm the only person that played ME1 only once, to make sure that I had to live with my choices and consequences, and not to replay it to see multiple endings. I'm weird like that, I guess.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 17:21

  • deiseach #195 2 years ago

    I'd better warn this missus I might be quiet for a while. And possibly not going into work.

    Or showering.

    Or eating.

    Already done. Told my wife, that is, not yours. Mrs d is on some work related shindig on Saturday and when she told me initially I was bereft - until I realised what day it was. Rejoice!

  • JediMasterMalik #196 2 years ago

    I was thinking of holding off on this for a while, but I'm conflicted now, very very conflicted. :(

    I love that it seems to have fixed all of my big problems with the first game, and even improve what the first did so well.

  • mainaman #197 2 years ago

    ''But I have to say, I don't "get" people that decide beforehand to be a paragon or renegade, or play as a woman (unless you are one). Am I the only person that designed shepherd to look as similar to me as possible? And made choices based on what I wanted/decided, not on how I wanted to "experience the game"?''

    Sometimes answers and actions that you know that will bring you renegade points seem preferable to me,but most of the time it is paragon decisions.If you go for a complete renegade character you have to be complete asshole and maniac in-game.No point for a middle ground as well,because you wont excel at neither type.

    Character customization is practically limited to a single face type,which you can only uglify and change hair and eye colour,let alone create somebody that looks like you.And female Shepard makes sense mostly because of the superioir voicework.BTW the default one looks like Sienna Guillory...

  • Mr.DNA #198 2 years ago

    @The Bodybuilder: "But I have to say, I don't "get" people that decide beforehand to be a paragon or renegade, or play as a woman (unless you are one)."

    At the risk of coming across as needlessly snide and pithy: It's called role-playing.

    Also, perhaps someone who has played the game can answer me this: Someone in the comments section a few weeks ago told me that BioWare had been saying that, at the start of the game, Mass Effect 2 will list all of the important decisions that you made in Mass Effect 1 (if you have an ME1 save file), for those players (like me) who can't bloody remember the bulk of the choices that they made all the way back in November 2007. Can anyone confirm whether or not this is the case? It seems to me that without such a system, some of the ramifications of the choices made in ME1 might well be lost on me...

  • Trafford #199 2 years ago

    You forgot the spoiler tags in your review there.
    Well done Bioware

  • Nephirion #200 2 years ago

    The Bastards killed Big Trak :o

  • busboy33 #201 2 years ago

    @beckyh:

    "So is this correct in that I can use my old ME1 save and have my stats, weapons and decisions in tact?"

    Yes and no.

    All your decisions carry over,and apparently carry over more impactfully into ME3. For example, if you had a love interest in ME1, and generate another in ME2, allegedly they are going to both be relevant in ME3, so you might have some 'splaining to do. The game gives you a re-cap of your "prime" decisions when you import a ME1 save so you can remember what you did in that save (who died, what happened on Thorian, etc.) but it doesn't go over EVERY decision . . . just the "big picture" ones.

    Your stats and stuff DO carry over . . . for about 10 minutes. After the tutorial you re-roll your Sheppard (presumably to keep vets and newbies on a somewhat level playing field). It also makes sense because the upgrade tree has been RADICALLY pruned back and re-designed, so having a shotgun skill of 12 doesn't translate directly into ME2 skills (there's no shotgun skill, and none of the skills go to 12). Plus, since the classes are much more defined from each other, you may decide that you want to proceed with a new class, so the re-roll gives you the chance to "start over".
    However, if you are importing, you get a stat boost on the re-roll. Depending on how leveled your ME1 Sheppard is, you get extra points to spend on the new skills. Because the weapons have been re-designed, you lose your weapons and kit but you get a cash boost for them. So everything DOES import, but the only thing that remains unchanged is the decisions.

  • Rodchenko #202 2 years ago

    Quite excited about this. Over at Gizmodo they say that this game 'solidifies gaming's place in the advancement of narrative'. If that's the trend of 2010 (as I think it is, with more story-scentric games coming up, like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain etc.), we got good times ahead. But bloody expensive ones as well...

  • busboy33 #203 2 years ago

    To all the "spoiler" comments:

    Really? I can sort of see the spoiler label for the opening action comments (although that's been pretty well known by everybody that's read anything on ME2 in the last 5 weeks), but the latter stuff? How much more vague could it be?

    Let me re-write the "spoiler" text STKD got upset about:

    WARNING -- SPOILER!!

    "You have to recruit a character, and to do this you go somewhere. In interacting with that character, you learn more about them. There is stuff to do regarding the character's backstory, that leads to a mission, that leads to a choice at the end of the mission that is difficult. This seems to impact the game somewhat."

    Quite honestly, if you didn't guess all that before you put the game in, there's something wrong. What was spoilerific about the original?

    While I'm spoiling -- it takes place in space. Your character is named Sheppard. There are aliens. And guns. You talk alot. Things happen. You'll have to make choices. Rosebud is the sled. Your NPC's will act differently depending on what you do. You can be mean or nice or both. Bruce Willis is really dead the whole time. The name of your spaceship is the "Normandy". You bring squad members into battle. If you listen to track 4 on The Dark Side Of The Moon, at about 3:23 seconds into it a voice will very softly say "If you can hear this whispering, you're dying", which is a dick thing to do to stoned kids.

    And there's no Santa Claus either.

  • TheBrow #204 2 years ago

    You can import an old character and then get to reroll your stats?
    Sweet, because I made a complete bags of my character build when playing through ME!

  • AphoticCosmos #205 2 years ago

    I'll read the actual review after I get and finish the game - I don't even want to chance any spoilers - but 10/10 from Eurogamer?

    I was sold before, I'm doubly sold now.

  • Mr.DNA #206 2 years ago

    @busboy33: Thanks for the info- whether or not you were responding to my post, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

  • The12thMonkey #207 2 years ago

    Got my 50-odd male Shepard ready to rock, and I'm working on having a Female Shepard to throw in via save game too. Really excited about this now. As someone said earlier in the thread, it read like an 11.

  • Mr.DNA #208 2 years ago

    While I'm here, the only thing that I'm slightly concerned about is the "streamlining" of the stats system. I don'tlike the sound of there being less stats to play around with. Indeed, 1up's review says that the game features less "role-playing" than the original (which itself was hardly a hardcore RPG) in favour of intense action and lots and lots of dialogue. I want my stats!

    Still, it does indeed sound like a great game, and I'm sure that I'll enjoy the heck out of it. That term "streamlining", though, has too many connotations with"watered-down" for my liking. My main gripe with Mass Effect 1 was that it was more "talky action-game" than RPG, and a hardcore RPG was what I had been expecting. I had pretty much expected ME1 to be the spiritual successor to KOTOR, and that it was most definitely not. This time I'm not setting myself up for a disappointment. I'm going into this game fully expecting a "talky action game", and a rip-roaringly good one at that.

  • PlugMonkey #209 2 years ago

    @ The Bodybuilder

    I used to try and make characters that looked like me, but the results were invariably appalling, so I gave up. It's generally incredibly fiddly and time consuming, and I wind up playing the game with an avatar who looks like a barely human troglodyte. The only remote success I've had was with Test Drive: Unlimited, where after about an hour of trying I had someone who looked absolutely nothing like me, but exactly like my brother. I mean, eerily. Like he'd become trapped in my Xbox.

    Anyway, nowadays I create whatever character I think looks most human and will be most interesting in the fiction, and then make whatever morality choices I think fit the character and enhance the fiction. Looking back, this has led to me playing female characters in about 90% of the RPGs I've played.

    I don't buy into this idea of having to pick paragon or renegade in order to 'specialise'. I did that in KOTOR and it got very dull. The entire morality side of the gameplay was lost as my decision was predetermined regardless of the scenario, and I think what you lose there is more valuable than not being able to access the top end of a skill tree.

    What does piss me off in ME, though, is that you only seemed to get renegade points for cold blooded murder, and got paragon points for anything short of cold blooded murder, so my antihero character generally got painted as a bit of a goody goody. :(

  • 43n1m4 #210 2 years ago

    @ Mr. DNA

    It depends on your definition of a hardcore RPG. IMO ME has way more roleplaying than many so-called hardcore RPG games, where 'hardcore' RPG game just means a very stat and skill based RPG. In ME you actually role-play the main character, because your choices have an impact on the game - but yes, these choices are usually presented and made in the dialogues.

  • SlipstreamDrifter #211 2 years ago

    im currently running through my 3rd ME1 game but with a renagade female character. im barley 2 hours in and already the game feels familiar but because of the range of choices very different. hopefully ME2 will have full frontal male nudity, thats whats missing in games these days

    DZ-QHY-UCD
    4 feb expirey
    $5 off $50 order

  • sirtacos #212 2 years ago

    Wow, nice. Legitimately didn't expect a 10.

  • Dgzter #213 2 years ago

    First PhD submission of the new year in by close of business Thursday, g/f off visiting her parents for the weekend from Friday, local offy sporting all sorts of quality offers. It almost brings a tear to the eye!

    I never really had any major doubt about ME2, but those small reservations I did entertain would all appear to have been addressed. Roll on Friday!

  • beatwolf #214 2 years ago

    I'm getting really tired of the many spoiler or at least semi-spoilers in Eurogamer reviews. It IS possible to do reviews without being so specific about actual events within the game...
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 21:26

  • DjFlex52 #215 2 years ago

    wow...I didn't imagine a 10 from EG.

    Now I truly think this will be the 360's best year of game content with 3 great games already (Bayonetta, Darksiders and ME2) in January. And February will bring me Bioshock 2, Dante's Inferno and Aliens vs Predator.

    And the PS3 is loaded too :)

  • BlitzwingHaz #216 2 years ago

    I'm tired of spoiler filled reviews too, to me its the mark of a poor review (be it film, TV or game)

    @The Bodybuilder
    I started ME1 (a few days ago) wanting to try being a bad guy first, then a good guy but a few conversations in I decided I would just decide with each encounter. It seems to be a fun way to play it.

    The first poster in here mentioned that you sometimes come across characters who act like you've already met them (when you haven't), I encountered this last night, was pretty annoying I hope its been fixed for the sequel.

  • mkreku #217 2 years ago

    I noticed that this review covers the PC version too. But I missed any mention on how the PC port works? Is the interface designed for the PC or does it feel like a console port?

  • smelly #218 2 years ago

    I *tried* to get into the first game.. I *REALLY* did.. it's still sat their on my gaming shelf.. I played it for 2 hours before becoming totally overwhelmed with options and not knowing wtf was going on with all my various upgrades and stuff.

    I also only have time to play games in short doses, so i kept forgetting where the plot was and what was happening.. So the plot began to lose me too.. So I gave up.

    i *WANT* to get into it, I *WANT* to enjoy what people keep telling me is great.. I just couldnt do it. And unfortunately i wont get the sequel until i've finally beaten the original... But I keep looking at it on my game shelf and considering playing it, and i keep shrugging it off in order to play something else!

    I remember a time when i used to love games like these, but nowadays as a grown up - i totally dont have the time.

    Which is a shame, as i'm sure i'd enjoy it immensely if i had the time to devote to it. :(

  • Triggerhappytel #219 2 years ago

    Damn, man. Looks like I might have to get that slightly more expensive phone contract with a 'free' Elite in a couple of months after all!

  • Triggerhappytel #220 2 years ago

    Also, I hope this is a big success for EA as they've had a shit couple of years and really deserve some proper big-sellers.

  • Kerome #221 2 years ago

    I can understand why they did it, but I'm getting a bit tired of all the marketing shots featuring the male Shepherd.

    Anyway, nice review, good to see ME2 doing well on metacritic, pre-ordered my copy months ago, hurry up already ;) And the vehicle sections in the first one were not THAT bad, once you got the hang of them.

  • The-Bodybuilder #222 2 years ago

    "Anyway, nowadays I create whatever character I think looks most human and will be most interesting in the fiction, and then make whatever morality choices I think fit the character and enhance the fiction. Looking back, this has led to me playing female characters in about 90% of the RPGs I've played."- PlugMonkey

    Now that is a fair ans pretty good response and explanation. Can't fault it. Better than some of the more obnoxious replies.

    "I started ME1 (a few days ago) wanting to try being a bad guy first, then a good guy but a few conversations in I decided I would just decide with each encounter. It seems to be a fun way to play it. "

    That's exactly how I play it too. Can't imagine it any other way.


  • HuggyAtHome #223 2 years ago

    @smelly

    Couldn't agree more - I had my copy for ages and then sold it on as I just couldn't muster the time it required and got really confused early on with the inventory screens. Pig sick now of course!

  • Sorb #224 2 years ago

    "elements like the confusing inventory system stripped away"

    This certainly ups the score to 100/10.

    "BioWare has ditched the Mako buggy".

    Make that 200/10.

    Now what about the copy/paste buildings?

  • TRUTH #225 2 years ago

    Bioshock 2 for £29.00 on Amazone.co.uk

  • local_celebrity #226 2 years ago

    Tom.

    So when you say this game is "UTTERLY ESSENTIAL" are you putting it on a par with water, food and oxygen?

  • local_celebrity #227 2 years ago

    That was a joke btw. But neg me all you want.

  • messiahtj #228 2 years ago

    Awesome!!! I will purchase this for the PC because obviously, that's the 10/10 version =D

  • Alkeno #229 2 years ago

    The game looks fantastic, my first pre-order ever, it won't disappoint. I'm not sure of some of the changes, however, I kind of liked the Mako free-roaming on alien planets, they just needed to boost the planets with rewards and something interesting to do, not removing them...

    The review, sorry Tom, was rather weak. I don't have a problem with the game earning a 10/10, it seems fair, but the overall impression is quite underwhelming: Unnecessary spoilers (the whole first page, some stills...), lack of depth (the game has some well known issues and bugs by now, no mention) and a overall feeling of being a rushed job (what is the structure of the review? I didn't get it). Maybe it's just me, but I've read a couple of reviews by now (IGN, Ars Technica) and both seemed much better. I expect nothing but greatness from Eurogamer!
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 23:51

  • GamesConnoisseur #230 2 years ago

    ^ Must be a PS3 owner?! Wink!

    Edit: Meant the Messiah guy above not the one immediate above me as I was too slow.

    Either version it's 10/10 but plays on whichever is your preferred platform and the differences are not as drastic as Dragon's Age!
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 23:51

  • MightyMouse #231 2 years ago

    @The Bodybuilder

    I had this very conversation with friends a while back. If I'm actually absorbed by the narrative then the decisions I make are those that I want to make, so it's not really role-playing. Indeed given that I assess the situations given to me in a certain way, even if I deliberately went against what I would normally do then this attempt at role-playing an 'evil' character would be fallacious since how I think about things and what I think are clearly interlinked.

    Having said that I have no compunction about looks or gender of my main characters. When I can make the same choices no matter what, I can't see that choosing a certain face shape or gender makes a blind bit of difference.

  • hahayou #232 2 years ago

    So, once you've re-rolled your stats, does it do the same thing as ME1 and make your space commando unable to hit anything for the first couple of hours? It was only once I could shoot straight that I started really liking the first one.

    edit: And the Mako was great, BTW. Putting jump jets on your alien-planet exploration vehicles is an idea that NASA needs to nick in future:
    http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8481...
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 04:23

  • mainaman #233 2 years ago

    I am eleven hours into Mass Effect 2 and the game seems bigger aand better than the first one,which i consider as the best game for xbox360.But it does suffer from the ''sequel syndrome'' a little-there is no novelty as the first game,you have already seen this world,the races,some of the characters,the game design...

  • joshrimer #234 2 years ago

    There were tons of people talking about Mass Effect 2 on Twitter today! I showed some of the funnier ones in my video at http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OdzoAlPyU8M :-D

  • EmiliasHorse #235 2 years ago

    I bought Mass Effect on day one but never got around to completing it till after the stunning Dragon Age prompted me to do so....yes I should be ashamed. The good news for me is the whole story is still fresh in my mind and I want more.

    Great review thanks EG.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 07:13

  • sargulesh #236 2 years ago

    why is it OK for a shitty game like ME to get a fan service sequel but bioshock 2 is being shat on from a great height by all and sundry

  • Daikon #237 2 years ago

    10/10? And no elevators and Mako?
    After reading this I just couldn't help myself and ordered a copy.
    Now if only I could manage to finish Dragon Age before it arrives...

  • muscleblade #238 2 years ago

    @The Bodybuilder

    I played through the original with a character that looked as much like me as possible. I made choices that i felt was right for me and was pretty much paragon all the way. I played it through a second time with a beatiful renegade woman. That was like playing two different games. I chose to be my original character based on my self for the sequel though.

  • muscleblade #239 2 years ago

    @sargulesh

    Mass Effect has been marketed as a trilogy from the start. You havent played the first one of course.
    Bioshock wasnt meant to have a sequel and didnt really need one as the first game was pretty conclusive. The sequel isnt even being made by the same developers from what ive heard and it wont be an improvement over the first (trust me).

  • septimus #240 2 years ago

    Was playing ME1 last night, think my character is level 70 something which is good enough anyway, but got to a Mako section, remember how hideous they were, turned it off.

    Can't wait for 2, so glad they pulled those sections out.

  • PlugMonkey #241 2 years ago

    @ STKD: You posted a spoiler that YOU considered to be a spoiler. That was the whole point of your post. That that paragraph was a spoiler, and it shouldn't be posted.

    That, surely, makes it a spoiler? Unless you take EG's opinion to be higher than your own?

    Then some people pointed out that you'd done something a bit daft, and now you appear to be throwing a temper tantrum on a public forum. I suspect this episode isn't going to register as one of the high water marks in your life.

  • FTM #242 2 years ago

    on the character type issue

    I also created a male character in my own likeness who was the good guy all the way through..made all the nice decisions was polite and sympathetic

    then I made a female character (who may look a bit like the wife....ahem) who is rude to everybody and prefers to argue and is blunt and straight to the point

    I will stick with them both in ME2 to see how the game pans out !

  • kangarootoo #243 2 years ago

    On the subject of spoilers.

    TAKE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE.

    A particularly spoiler averse friend of mine, if he is really interested in a game or film, will AVOID all reviews and trailers in case of spoilers.

    Nothing I read in the review really counted as a spoiler. Those who get upset at such low level spoilering are clearly sensitive to that sort of thing. BUT, it is absolutely fine to be sensitive to spoilers of that type. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. HOWEVER, people who KNOW they hate even the slightest spoiler content should quite frankly stop reading reviews.

    Seriously people, make some personal choices, and then deal with the bloody results like a grown up.

  • andywilkie35 #244 2 years ago

    Good shout kangarootoo

    I'm avoiding all reviews/trailers etc of Heavy Rain, Final Fantasy XIII etc so that everything is unexpected when I play through those

  • sneetch #245 2 years ago

    @PlugMonkey
    Then some people pointed out that you'd done something a bit daft, and now you appear to be throwing a temper tantrum on a public forum. I suspect this episode isn't going to register as one of the high water marks in your life.

    That's pretty much what I was thinking too but you phrased it better. :)

    People who repeat a spoiler while complaining about it being a spoiler are just being dicks. If you were looking forward to going to see a movie with someone and they started complaining about someone spoiling the end for you and then told you the spoiler how would you react?
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 11:08

  • Emmit_Assassin #246 2 years ago

    I've never seen so many comments on one game!

  • kangarootoo #247 2 years ago

    @Emmit_Assassin

    The MGS4 review thread had over 400 comments on it. It was bloody horrible reading though.

    Long threads usually only persist because they are stuffed full of the worst fanboy flame war nonsense. This is the nicest long thread I've seen in some while (except for the spoiler stuff).
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 11:45

  • qoobah #248 2 years ago

    @Emmit_Assassin

    Guess you weren't around during the MGS4 onslaught;)

    EDIT: Bah, kangarootoo beat me to it.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 11:46

  • Gazza_UK #249 2 years ago

    I thought MGS4 went to 1000?

    Of course 65-75% was just ugly, ugly Trolls.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 11:50

  • Bulbatron #250 2 years ago

    I wonder when amazon.co.uk will start shipping...

  • sneetch #251 2 years ago

    The MGS4 review had more than 2300 in the end. :)

  • comedian #252 2 years ago

    Instabuy, loved the first game, put about 75+ hours in to it.

    And I even enjoyed the Mako sections :-)

  • Velios #253 2 years ago

    I just have to clear time in my work schedule to play this... god damn RL interfering again!!!

    BTW, are any of the supermarkets offering good deals on this does anyone know?

  • mikeck #254 2 years ago

    I've never seen so many comments on one game!

    This was a blast, over 1000 comments, and a lot of rage
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfall-online-review
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfa...[/link]

    I'm not sure if we're even allowed to mention it anymore, such was the fallout from that episode ;)

  • kangarootoo #255 2 years ago

    Christ, I obviously bailed out of the MGS thread relatively early. It was a right mess before it even hit 500 posts.

  • Kerome #256 2 years ago

    Play.com posted my order this morning... Gogo Royal Mail... Sigh.

  • Vroom #257 2 years ago

    Feckin yanks have this right now.

    /is a bitter, bitter man.

  • kangarootoo #258 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname

    The 10/10 tells you that the game is a leader IN IT'S FIELD.

    It tells you that game quality is subjective, and you perhaps don't share the same preferences as millions of others.

    It tells you that if you don't like this kind of RPG game, its probably not for you.

    Anything else?

  • kangarootoo #259 2 years ago

    Not even remotely.

    What would you call a Role Playing Game?

    Edit: given that the borders of game genres are about as shakey as any categorisation system can get.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 14:04

  • Machiavellian #260 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname
    It tells you that ME is not your type of game and you should move on. You didn't like ME be happy that there are others that did not like it as well and move on with your life. For the people like myself who thought ME totally rocked, it means nothing to us if others thought different. No matter how great a game is, there is someone who will find fault or not like it. You would think those people would not care to follow up on things they do not like but instead they are always looking for someone to agree with them.

  • SuperNashwan #261 2 years ago

    You are "amazed" that people have different tastes than you ? You must find life just one amazement after the other then.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 14:18

  • Machiavellian #262 2 years ago

    You call it being touchy, I am just stating a fact. If a game doesn't appeal to me you will not see me making comments about it because I do not care. I do not look for approval of my decisions and do not need support for it as well. When you get older you will find out that people will not agree with your opinion and it will be fine. You will find out that you will not be able to change people opinions no matter how right you think you are. Once you get to that state you will finally know that the world does not revolve around you and your opinion and you will not waste your time trying to show that you are special because you do not like something that others do.

  • kangarootoo #263 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname

    "I posted this comment because it is genuine wonder and amazement"

    Nonsense. For someone to be amazed at such a thing would require that they be simple in the head, and I don't believe you are. Disingenuous is what you are sir.

    Subjective opinion differs - the clue is in the name. If you find it wonderous that subjective opinion differs, I might recommend a moment spent with a dictionary and a nice cup of tea.

  • creepylizard #264 2 years ago

    Ah, it was a mere matter of time until the thread turned nasty....

  • kangarootoo #265 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname

    I'm not really sure what you are saying here. Are you suggesting it is NOT simply a matter of subjective opinion.

    "but the difference is just too big"

    The degree of difference has nothing to do with it. This is the bit where you should really get that dictionary. Something that is subjective IS subjective, no matter what differences are observed, no matter how many people agree or disagree. It will NEVER be objective, just because it appears to be so.


    There is an easy way to explain this, and it is to do in essence with the unit of measurement you use.

    If I say to you that something is 5m tall, THAT is an objective view 9assuming I am not simply wrong). Anybody measuring the object accurately would come to the same result. Even if no communication existed between them.

    if I told you the same objective was "tall", that would be subjective. Not because you might disagree with me, not because the whole world might agree with me, but because somebody measureing the same object COULD come to a different but equally valid concluision.

    Whatever you feel about ME, your opinion on its quality is and will always be subjective, quite simply because GOOD and BAD are not objective measurements. I didn't make it that way, and you can't change it just 'cos you feel like it.

  • kangarootoo #266 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname

    Evasion is easy to spot. Laughter is the last resort.

    If you are unwilling to explain yourself, we can only assume you are unable to do so.

  • SuperNashwan #267 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname;

    "It's just too easy"

    quite...

  • Machiavellian #268 2 years ago

    @notmyrealname

    Evasion is easy to spot. Laughter is the last resort.

    If you are unwilling to explain yourself, we can only assume you are unable to do so.

    Just stop, It's like you are in a fight with a child and it gets to the point where continually hitting them on the head does not lead into any better results. It's clear that notmyrealname is out of his class weather he knows it or not. Pretty soon you will get the LOLs sent your way as notmyrealname finally understand that he cannot debate you on the subject. His lack of understanding and maturity will ultimately lead to even more foolish post until you will be forced to put him on your ignore list.

  • kangarootoo #269 2 years ago

    Good call. I shouldn't be drawn in that way. More fool me :)

  • PlugMonkey #270 2 years ago

    notmyrealname: What the flying fuck are you on about?

  • Jlmadyson #271 2 years ago

    Worth a 360 alone. Get this game. Somehow, that is all.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 18:29

  • Miths #272 2 years ago

    I started playing the game late last night (used a cracked exe to temporarily get past the activation date check on the digital deluxe version I bought from the EA store - I was too impatient to wait for Friday, although I won't be able to use the DLC until the game officially unlocks).

    So far I've restarted four times :) - with different faces and character classes - so I'm only a little over an hour into the game with the FemShep engineer character I think I've finally settled on (that is, unless I don't decide to go back and restart a soldier after all) - but first impressions have been great.
    Vastly superior shooter mechanics compared to ME1 and graphics that at least here in the beginning look a fair bit better than the original in terms of lighting, shaders and textures (playing with everything maxed at 1920x1200 on a 24" monitor).

    Well, time for dinner and then it's time to dive back in for hopefully a long session without any more restarts :).

  • trip919 #273 2 years ago

    Not surprised by this score really. It looked phenomenal from the start & it seems Bioware has delivered a sequel that has gone to lengths to rectify the flaws of the first one.

    Just like they said they would!

  • kangarootoo #274 2 years ago

    Would you believe it. After all that, notmyrealname actually PM'd me to say the following. With the subject field of "pwnt u" would you believe.

    "for someone who likes to troll and flame you sure have a low intellect. You were so easy to troll it's pathetic hehehe."

    I truly have nothing to add.

  • kingmong #275 2 years ago

    let us huddle together and bask in the warm glow of his pwnage

  • trip919 #276 2 years ago

    When notmyrealname said “first mass effect sucked utter balls and held a very high grade as well.. so what does this 10//10 tell me?”

    I instantly thought retard, do not engage.

  • kingmong #277 2 years ago

    yep, he's simple in the face. have to agree that non-engagement is the way to go.

    Einstein could spend 1000 years explaining the theory of relativity to a bunch of monkeys, but at the end of it all they'd still just be monkeys...

  • kingmong #278 2 years ago

    in other news: would anyone like to borrow my job, girlfriend and hobbies 'till I play this to death?

  • Pikol #279 2 years ago

    I didn't expect THAT kind of score..

  • telboy007 #280 2 years ago

    Come on Amazon... it's dispatched!!! Whoohoo.
    Edited by 1 at 28/01/10 @ 14:07

  • irrelevanthuman #281 2 years ago

    Managed to blag saturday off from work,suddenly the air smells sweeter,food tastes better and the world makes sense to me,its officially Mass Effect 2 weekend at my house.Now what to do with the missus.....

  • Bulbatron #282 2 years ago

    Amazon are taking their sweet fucking time over dispatching. Doesn't look as though I'll have it for this weekend.

    telboy007, can you tell me what the estimated delivery was from Amazon? Mine is still Preparing for dispatch with an Estimated Delivery Date of 1st February. So not until after the weekend.
    Edited by 1 at 28/01/10 @ 14:35

  • kingmong #283 2 years ago

    ... and that gentlemen is why I now go with digital distribution for games I actually want to play on release day.

    (or earlier if you're luck/sneaky)

  • Bulbatron #284 2 years ago

    Don't blame you. If that option ever arrives on XBOX 360 then maybe I would consider it. In the meantime, I'm stuck waiting for amazon to pull their finger out.

  • kangarootoo #285 2 years ago

    @Bulbatron

    My Amazon order despatched today, but I got cheapy free delivery as I'm away this weekend, so I'd be surprised if I see it before the weekend (estimated delivery date is set at 3rd feb, though stuff usually arrives a bit earlier than they suggest).

  • Bulbatron #286 2 years ago

    Cheers for the guidance kangarootoo. Mine has finally been dispatched. Got an email sent at about 3:25. I wonder if it will arrive for tomorrow now. Probably not. Oh well, hopefully Saturday.

  • PlugMonkey #287 2 years ago

    "I didn't expect THAT kind of score.. "

    The 10/10, or the offer of a go on kingmong's girlfriend?

  • andromeda #288 2 years ago

    To anyone who mourns the loss of the Mako sections.
    Remember Wild Metal Country?
    I lost days to multiplayer WMC!

  • Mr.DNA #289 2 years ago

    @Bulbatron: I arrived home from work today to find an email from Amazon informing me that my order has been dispatched, and that the estimated date of arrival is the 29th January. Which is... tomorrow! Of course, it might well not arrive tomorrow but I would imagine that it will. Didn't you yourself get an estimated date of arrival?

  • VMerken #290 2 years ago

    Oh cool, notmyrealname back in full mass effect, straight from his good old day job under the bridge :). Just keep at it, bro, you'll get there eventually.

    Anyway, this snippet from the review caught the old attention:
    "You may miss the Mako, but by the end of the game you may have forgotten all about it."

    No, Tom. Noone will ever forget the Mako, and noone will ever miss it precisely because they can't forget the Mako and the abysmal driving experience it provides. I love Bioware for giving it the boot in this sequel, and will most certainly enjoy the upcoming weekend.

    Now to quickly finish Mass Effect 1 again (keeping Mako "action" to a minimum), as I recently uninstalled all my PC games and threw away their save games during the process. Tabula rasa from time to time is fun.

  • sargulesh #291 2 years ago

    @muscleblade

    I have played the first ME. the emperor has no clothes on

  • onyxbox #292 2 years ago

    Been playing this all night. It played like Gears of War with dialog trees in the cut scenes.... It's a great game... 10/10? Not convinced about that yet.

    Gameplay is much much better than the first game, graphics are about the same but with a stable framrate... still some LoD stuff going on. Soundtrack isn't as good as the first IMO, had a weak feel to it.

    Overall tho' it's very good, and marks a bloody good start to the year.

  • markitzs #293 2 years ago

    Jesus Christ! A 10/10? This must be amazing!

    I neeeed to play this :)

    Just one question for the PC version - does it play good with the Xbox360 controller for Windows?

  • geeza2020 #294 2 years ago

    I got my copy of this last night when i got back from work, and played it until about 1:30am, pretty tired at work today but it was worth it. This game is stunning. Absolutely stunning. I would say to anyone who was put off by the ropey shooter mechanics and nasty mako sections in the first to try this out, Bioware have managed to make everything that was weak in the first game so much more refined in this one. Couple the improvements with great story, music and some of the best lip syncing i've ever seen in a game and i'd say this game more than deserves its 10/10 score. But as i said earlier, i'm only about 4 or 5 hours in so this may change, but i hope it doesnt because so far, i'd say its one of the best openings to an RPG i have played in years.

    /applauds Bioware

  • muscleblade #295 2 years ago

    ME2 is probably the best game this gen from an objektive standpoint. Its not my personal favourite but very close.

  • busboy33 #296 2 years ago

    @hahayou:
    "So, once you've re-rolled your stats, does it do the same thing as ME1 and make your space commando unable to hit anything for the first couple of hours? It was only once I could shoot straight that I started really liking the first one."

    No . . . because the action segments are action segments. There's no "roll-a-d20-behind-the-scenes-to-determine-damage" going on. When you draw a gun, if you line up the headshot, you get the headshot.

    There isn't any weapons stats. You can upgrade the guns damage, ammo clips, accuracy (for auto weapons), but that's it. Your weapons "stats" are for things like using incindary ammo, a a cuncussion shot -- not for the guns themselves. Either you can use a weapon or you can't. How good/bad you are with the weapon is more associated with how good you are in 3rd person shooters.

    btw, if you took out everything but the shooty bits -- its a suprisingly good 3rd-person shooter.

    To the "cookie cutter environments" concerns: just finished my first playthru. Did not see a SINGLE repeating environment. Not one. At all. I don't believe it either . . . but every place you go is pretty much unique.

  • bad09 #297 2 years ago

    @ markitzs

    "Just one question for the PC version - does it play good with the Xbox360 controller for Windows? "

    No sadly, but a key/mouse mapper will work. Xpadder or Pinnacle are the two I know about, both really good but I think Xpadder is free where as Pinnacle is £11.

  • Gunzberg #298 2 years ago

    Playing it, it's awesome. Some very cool incidental details. I'd give it 10/10 just based on my first 14 hours of the game

  • busboy33 #299 2 years ago

    @jstar:

    Really?

    I know I'm going to regret this, but can you give examples of the "numerous narrative and dramatic failings"? I didn't notice anything major (but then, I am but a peon, and not a suave critic of teh culture), and given that ME2 ran for 50+ hours for me that there were only minor narrative hitches impressed the hell out of me -- most books and movies have trouble reaching that standard in 2 hours. So what did my untrained eyes not see?

  • peppergomez #300 2 years ago

    ditto. jstar, back that up with proof, please.

  • busboy33 #301 2 years ago

    @jstar:

    Yes -- I really do want to know what the narrative problems with the story are.

    As I await your reply, let me point out this troubling part of your comment:

    "Bioware have claimed the RPG and storytelling pedigree of Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, (to name a few of the Black Isle classics from yesteryea, however, none of their modern games match these in terms of story, character or drama. They are just not up to the same standard. So infact we have regressed narratively."

    You have made a few stunningly unsupported assertions that seem to be shaping your analysis.
    a) Baldur's Gate was a "narrative classic"
    b) Planetscape Torment was a "narrative classic"
    c) None of Biowares (modern) games "match these in terms of story, character, or drama"

    Your analysis seems to be circular and self supporting. Biowares latest games aren't as good narratively as games you like from your past, therefore they are poor examples of narrative art. While the narrative elements of those two games were fine, I'd hardly consider them to be the benchmark to which narrative in games must aspire to -- frankly they were okay but not anything special beyond that for me.
    Let me give you a metaphor for the type of argument you seem to be preparing. I like the science fiction of Robert Heinlein. The writings of Issac Asimov aren't as good in my opinion. Since Asimov claims the same genre as Heinlein, clearly his narrative art is a failure. Or rather, Asimov suffers from numerous narrative and dramatic failings, basically because he's not Heinlein.
    I'm not personally concerned with the first part of these assertions -- that Baldur's Gate and Planetscape are a benchmark of some kind. They are different works. Saying Memento isn't Citizen Cane has no bearing on whether Memento is a well done narrative. Regardless of whether these two games are narrative genius or utter dreck . . . it has NO bearing on whether ME is narratively good or bad. None whatsoever. My favoritism for Heinlein does not in any way objectively diminish the skill that Asimov displays in his writing. He's a good writier . . . but not my cup of tea. ME may not be your cup of tea, but your criticism goes far beyond that.

    The question here that you raise is that Mass Effect (presumably the first and given the topic of this thread the second as well) has such glaring failures of narrative and story that you feel compelled to call out the reviewer for not publicly declaring them narrative failures. That the reviewer is professionally remiss for not making such a factually clear statement.
    Therefore, the question directly to you is what are those failings? How does the narrative fail on a basic level? What's wrong with the story in its composition, its pacing, its architecture?
    This is different than "I don't like aliens" or "the end boss of ME2 was silly" (I agree). Those are detail quibbles. But you are claiming that as storytellers in the Mass Effect games*, Bioware are objectively failures. Please explain.

    *I have to assume your complaint is with the narrative of the Mass Effect games, and not a "game X had a bad narrative, so the reviewer of game Y should have called the developers shit". I assume your disagreement is more substantial than that.

  • Yossarian #302 2 years ago

    That is a very long post, but all the words in the world won't change the fact that Planescape: Torment has the best story and writing of any game ever made, and no Bioware game yet made, ME2 included, has come close to matching it.

  • AphoticCosmos #303 2 years ago

    I finished it this morning after two and a half solid day's worth of playing.

    Best. Game. Ever. I genuinely thought that ME1 would be impossible to follow. Talk about feeling like an idiot . . .

  • busboy33 #304 2 years ago

    @Yossarian:

    As the comment under yours indicates, "Bestest Evar" seems to be a subjective opinion.

    You consider Planetside:Torment to be the absolute best narrative/story in a video game. Jstar apparently does as well, although he apparently also puts Baldur's Gate on the same strata and you (by omission) don't. Whether you, Jstar, me, or anybody else is "right" on this question is undeterminable.

    Everybody's opinion on this particular question is valid, since we are talking subjective. I think Memento is a better narrative story than Citizen Cane. No calculator in the world will prove me right or wrong. There are no metrics to judge "better".

    Hypothetically, let's accept that Planetscape:Torment IS the pinnnacle of game narrative. So what? All other narratives are inherently failures if they do not match/exceed the absolute best? That's a rather harsh evaluation standard. I think that Led Zepplin 1 was the best album ever made. Therefore, if an album is not as good or better than it -- and ALL albums must by definition be worst than the best -- then that album is a failure, and a music review of said album should take time to point out how shit it is since its not as good as Zep The First.

    As I said before whether Pl:T or BG are the greatest ever narratives or not does not bear on the question at hand, which is jstar's asserion that the narrative displayed in the ME games is such a comical failure that the reviewer failing to scold them for such freshman shortcomings is actually a professional blight on the reviewer and EuroGamer as a whole.
    "You should have pointed out Sgt. Pepper's is worse than old gum on the sole of my shoe!"
    "Uh . . . . why?"
    "Because Zep Rules!!"
    That doesn't make any sense, and as I also said before I assume jstar has more behind his claim than Pl:T and BG favoritism.

    So this doesn't get sidetracked, I'll concede for purposes of this thread that Pl:T (and for jstar BG) is (/are) the best narratives ever in a videogame. No video game has ever (and possibly WILL ever) rivaled it(/them) in terms of narrative ability.

    Now about Mass Effect . . .

  • telboy007 #305 2 years ago

    Missed the question sorry, my amazon order was always saying estimated arrival of Monday the 1st until Thurs when they dispatched it. So who knows what is going on! :) I'm lubbin' it, awesome game.

  • TheSnotGoblin #306 2 years ago

    @jstar
    "So firstly, if you think the story in any Bioware game even approaches the quality of writing found in Baldur's Gate and Planscape then there is hardly any point in even talking about it."

    You seem to be confused as to Bioware's back catalogue. Yeah, Planescape was made by Black Isle, but the Baldur's Gates were Bioware's babies, Interplay just published them through Black Isle 'cause that was their RPG label.

    In fact the lead designer of Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 was also lead designer on KotOR and NWN of all things (James Ohlen; currently working on Bioware's MMO).

  • busboy33 #307 2 years ago

    @jstar:

    Thank you for your response. I honestly do appreciate the opportunity to discuss games like this, so if my tone seems confrontational I assure you I mean no disrespect. Due to the length of my reply, I've broken it up into several different replies.

    To all the other readers of this thread, my apologies for being so long-winded.

    “When I think about the story in Mass Effect 2 I am comparing it to [classic SciFi writers]. Top sci fi story telling. This should be the benchmark. This is where games should be aiming.”

    Respectfully, no. Whether the narrative structure of ME1 and 2 is competent should be judged by analyzing ME1 and 2 . . . not in comparing them to other works. As I said before, whether work X is as-good-or-better than work Y does not have any bearing on the intrinsic merit of work X.
    Moreover, you are now comparing works across forms, written/read word to interactive video game. To say that a novel will excel at novelization seems a bit . . . obvious. Does the reverse hold true? Should we decry Asimov’s canon for its pungent lack of engagement because it obviously can't engage as much as something that requires you to actually do things while you enjoy it (push buttons, make choices, etc.)?
    Asimov is good regardless of whether or not something else is better. Memento can be considered good at its art regardless of whether another film might be considered better. Believing that Led Zepplin 1 was “the best” doesn’t impact the merit of other albums. . . and saying Mass Effect isn’t as good a SciFi novel as some of the greatest SciFi novels ever written in the history of Man hardly equates to narrative failure.
    If as you maintain there can be no real objection to the belief that Pl:T and BG are pinnacle forms of the art, shouldn’t you post your comment in EVERY game review thread? Shouldn’t EVERY single game review start with a cut-and-paste “This Game Is Narratively A Joke Because The Name Doesn’t Start With Planetscape Or Baldur”? If you were a teacher, would you fail a student’s work because another student you had 5 years ago was better? “Your paper might be considered good Ashley to somebody that has no appreciation of papers, but I still remember Jeff’s paper from 1987 and frankly my dear, you are no Jeff!”

  • busboy33 #308 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    Your comment from “Don’t get me wrong . . . “ until “The day before . . .” contains no substantive point. ME is good, but the story is a joke. You know really smart storytellers and they all think it’s a joke. I shall counter with the equally valid "I know professional novelists and moviemakers and they love the story, considering it one of the best integrations of story into a game they have ever experienced.” The above is all just a lengthy version of the classic debate “No Way!” . . . “Yes Way!”.

    “How you can be in the middle of the most dramatic firefight ever and some guy you have just met turns to you and says, 'So, do you have any questions?' And you go. 'Yeah, what's happening here?' . . .Imagine that in a film or a book.... So why are games held to a different standard?”

    Because games are not films or books. A book can effectively pause any action by simply having the narrator continue to talk about anything other than the action:
    “As he fired his gun at me, I noticed the distinctive rifling down the barrel. I had had the nagging suspicion ever since I had met Fred that I had known him before, and now as the light emphasized the tiny indentations on his weapon it all clicked. Four years ago, I was working a job in Africa . . . nasty business. Had to make some unsavory contacts to accomplish my goal.” Etc. etc.

    What the hell happened to the bulletFred is shooting at you? Is the speaker really thinking all this AS the action is taking place? Or how about this classic technique for fleshing out detail in a story:

    “Fred fired his gun, the muzzle flash muted against the mudstains on his uniform, only finding a welcoming pearch to reflect off of in the drop of blood gathering near the tiny cut above his eye.”

    During a firefight, I’m noticing all of these incidental details? Seems pretty unbelievable, don’t you think? Maybe I should focus on killing some bastards, then appreciate the artistry of the moment in reflection.

    The reason you have that conversation with Jacob is because it is during something called the tutorial. It’s the same reason that Miranda tells you to get behind cover to avoid a blast – because you are learning how the game works. The point was twofold. First, it introduces you to the dialog tree concept. Second, it gives a moment for Jacob to tell you that you can give orders to your squadmates (like telling him to use his Biotic power). Would it have been less awkward for him to simply yell out in the middle of the battle “Hey you! I’m a biotic and if you want, I’ll use my power on targets you select! Pew Pew!!” The game even tried to address the awkwardness you raise when Jacob says “Look, I’ll answer all the questions you want, but how about we finish this damn fight first?”
    Were there any other fights that stopped completely for Q-and-A sessions? As far as I remember, any other narrative moments bookended by fighting had a natural pause in the combat – for example, discussing with the Quarian how best to take down the Collosus when you try to recruit Tali.
    How do you recommend the necessary training be delivered to the player? Obviously, the game could pause, and instructional text could scroll across the screen. A bit less immersive, though . . . and a damn sight less narrative. Any suggestions?

  • busboy33 #309 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOI LERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER

    “ Now you are going to say, ‘but you need that conversation, it tells you what is going on.' But you don't need to know what is going on.”

    Not going to say that at all. You need to know how to command squadmates and how to use the wheel. But you don’t need to question Jacob then and there. Guess what? You don’t have to. You can simply say “Let’s get the hell out of here!” and talk to him later.

    Exactly what you want.

    However, since this is player controlled, there are options available to give the inquisitive player the ability to have a conversation then and there, if they so choose. Unlike a movie, ME can play out multiple ways. You want the “talk later!” option? It’s there. You want to play the scene as “dammit, I want answers and I want them now!”? That option is also there.

    Moreover, each path is narratively justified. "Let's get out of here and talk later" makes perfect sense. It also makes sense for Shepherd to say "I don't know what the hell is going on, who you are, who that voice giving instructions is, and now robots are trying to kill me. I'm not doing another God-damn thing until I get some explanation about what the hell is going on!" That makes perfectly logical sense, and I'll also note that its a device frequently used in movies precisely because it permits a coherent pause in action to allow backstory . . . something that novels can accomplish with the narration as I said before.

    You feel the first option makes a better “story”. I agree. But the inclusion of option 2 doesn’t mean that option 1 suddenly does not exist. I think that during Mordin’s HonorQuest it makes a better narrative (given your lengthy debate with him about the merits of the genophage) to stop him from killing the scientist . . . but that somebody might choose to let him doesn’t impact the “better” (IMO) version.
    This is something that games can do and movies/books cannot . . . offer multiple choices and versions. Perhaps I can watch a scene on a DVD from different angles . . . but the scene is still the same. If the author of a novel writes a speech for a character, I may envision it differently but the words are imutable. With games, I can re-create the scene, and of necessity some of those choices may well be less “nbetter” than others. But that ALL of those choices (and ALL of their consequences) can be successfully contained within the overeaching narrative arc and STILL all work together . . . well, to me that is a sign of exceptional storytelling, not deficient storytelling. It certainly is narratively jarring that a Shepard that has been a beacon of manners and kindness might suddenly throw a nobody out of a window, but that option is there and the narrative compensates by having my squadmates ask “what the hell is wrong with you?” I can choose to act "out of character", but the strength of the characterization for myself and others is so strong that such behavior causes reasonable reactions. Good storytelling, and something that is simply not possible in books or film.

    If you are going to fault games for not being as good a novel as novels, surely you should also fault novels for being less game-like than games? If Asimov doesn't suck because I can't decide to ignore the alleged robot murder and simply pop a cap in the robot's dome (Three Laws? Try Fifty Calibur!), then why does a game suck because it doesn't follow the design of a novel? A written story cannot paint as vivid an image as a movie ("a picture is worth a thousand words";) . . . so are novels "better" than movies? Do novels fail because they can't do what movies can?

    Differernt forms of storytelling can't, and shouldn't be evaluated against each other. Common elements, yes (coherence, engagement, emotional resonance, immersion, etc.).

  • busboy33 #310 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOI LERSPOILERSPOILER

    “Human colonies are being kidnapped by an alien race and so one guy and a ship are sent against them? What? That's ridiculous on it's own.”

    To some extent, yes. Ridiculous? That might be too strong. Its clearly an excuse to motivate the story, but the same sort of criticism could be leveled at any number of “great” narratives. The last thing that Citizen Cane says on his deathbed is the name of his favorite toy? Really? Update that to modern times, and as Cane fades he weakly utters “Gameboooooyyyyyyyy . . . .” Wouldn’t that be pretty godamn silly? It’s a contrivance to propel the excellent narrative that follows. Why the hell didn’t the Hobbits just put the fu@kin’ Ring in a box (or bake it into a steel ingot) to avoid all the friggin’ angst? Because that contrivance provides the “juice” to propel the excellent narrative.

    Even assuming that the genesis of the story is “ridiculous”, the 40+ hours that follow that 5 minute contrivance are the storytelling at issue. You mentioned how good Baldur’s Gate was – I can’t get into Candlekeep without producing a rare book?

    “But sir, I’m an orphan. I was just attacked by bandits. My mysterious mentor was just murdered. I need shelter! I beg you!”
    “Fuck you, kid. No book, no admittance! We want the book so bad, we’re gonna send some kid we don’t even know out to get it, rather than our troops.”

    That’s certainly not a contrivance. Makes perfect sense. That’s some master storytelling right there.

    Or Planescape:Torment. The Nameless One tatoos himself to leave himself a message for when he awakens . . . and he puts the tatoo on his BACK? The one place where he could possibly tatoo himself and NOT see it? It provides an excuse for Morte to demonstrate his friendship/assistance . . . but c'mon! That's just rediculous . . . isn't it? Does that make Pl:T a narrative failure? Or is it a necessary contrivance to allow the narrative briliance that follows?

    “The Justicar? That nonsense about having to enter Shephards service so she didn't have to kill a policewoman? Excuse me what?”

    Made perfect sense to me. They took quite a bit of time explaining it. If your critique of that sub-plot is “it’s dumb”, then I guess my rebuttal is “No it isn’t”. They provide motivation and justification for you, the Justicar, and the policewoman. They establish a building tension that propels the resolution. They make the player feel for the plight of the policewoman and Samara, and in a nice touch they empathize with both for the exact same reason (the tension between duty and reality). I call that good storytelling.

    “The nutter biotic Jack who is presented as an anarchist who hates everyone and everything yet seems perfectly happy sitting in the bowels of the Normandy doing sweet fuck all. Doesn't make any sense at all.”

    She’s not doing fuck all. She’s reading the Cerberus files because of her hatred against them and desire to find useful intel to hurt them (which is fully explained and justified). Why is she in the bowels of the ship? Because she’s not a people person and is conditioned (from childhood and prison) to feel comfortable in “cell”-like environments.
    That doesn’t make sense to you? Seems pretty well-explained and psychologically grounded. They need to have your team members on the ship. They provide a credible explanation for a game requirement (Jack both on your ship and not running around killing everybody). Not only do they justify a game mechanic (Jack on ship in predictable location), but they do so in a way that develops the character and causes the player to emotionally react (empathy or revulsion). I call that good storytelling.

  • busboy33 #311 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOI LERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER

    “I'm pointing out that despite being 10-15 years old we are still talking about whether new games are better than [BG and Pl:T] or not.”

    Not “we”. You.

    300+ comments on a review of the game, and you are the first person who mentioned them. Dozens of reviews across continents, and I haven't seen a single comparison to BG and/or Pl:T except here, in your comment. You make it sound as if every RPG is compared to them by the gaming populace . . . and that is simply not true. YOU do that, because they for you are the benchmark of what an RPG should be. But that's not a "gamer-wide" criteria.

    I do appreciate your comment. I welcome this sort of discussioin. But respectfully you haven’t provided any real justification for "Mass Effect is a narrative failure and the review is professionally poor for not pointing out how pathetic it is in its story".

    The conversation with Jacob sucks. The base story's premise is contrived. I don’t like the Justicar’s motivation.

    These are quibbles. We’re talking about a 40+ hour story, and you're pointing out a 3 minute detail as evidence of a failure for the entire body (btw, why not point out that the game seems to have glossed completely over the fact that Cerebus can now raise people from the dead?). Disparaging ME for them is as petty as my slagging Baldur’s Gate because having to get a book to gain admittance to a city is an obvious after-the-fact justification for a necessary game mechanic (motivating the quests). That bit of contrivance does not make BG less an excellent narrative . . . and the same holds true for Mass Effect.

    What makes good storytelling, excellent narrative? Overall coherence. Emotion. Engagement. Connection. making the reader/player feel as if they are a part of that fictional realm. Making people care.

    ME has involved character dynamics with your 11-12 teammates. I don’t know anybody that went thru the Omega 4 Relay and didn’t agonize over which teammates to send on what assignments. If they lost some of these fictional characters during the mission, they often re-started. “I’m not losing Thane, dammit!”. People were horrified when rather than seeing colonists dissolved they saw Yeoman Kelly dissolved. When the Dr. berated them for being too late to save some of the crew, they felt guilt.

    THAT is good storytelling. Emotional engagement. Feeling that fictional/imaginary characters are real enough to merit care, protection, concern. If you watch Kelly die, the thought almost everybody has isn’t “ewww, that’s gross” but “I should have gotten here sooner. It’s my fault. I'm sorry.”

    What else is good narrative? What else is effective storytelling?

    Let me re-ask: What does BG and Pl:T have that ME doesn't? Aside from "better". Those have just as many details to pick at that could be better/different . . . but what makes you overlook those details and decry the ones in Mass Effect?

  • DjFlex52 #312 2 years ago

    It's just a videogame, jstar...and ME2 is one of the best...give it a rest.

    We get it...your narrative standards are so high, it's a wonder you still want to "play" any games since P: T & BG.

    Edit: BTW, you're wrong. A story isn't a story. Gone With The Wind's story can't be compared to The Empire Strikes Back's story or to Verdi's Aida's story
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/10 @ 09:25

  • RedSparrows #313 2 years ago

    ARG WALLS OF SPOILZ AND DISCUSSION

    SHUT UP AND PLAY DAMN YOU

  • busboy33 #314 2 years ago

    @jstar:

    “I'm not commentin on the 'intrinsic value' (whatever that is) of Mass Effec 2. I'm saying it is poorly written and badly plotted. I am then saying that say Planescape or a Peter F Hamilton novel is not badly written or badly plotted. I'm therefore ultimately saying I want Mass Effect 2 to be as written as well as and as plotted as well as the examples I have given.”

    Sadly yes . . . that is exactly what you are doing, and why your argument has no weight.

    a)ME sucks
    b) Planescape or Hamilton don’t
    c)ME should be morelike Planescape or Hamilton so it won’t suck

    Wonderfully declarative, but “it sucks because it sucks” doesn’t in any way whatsoever demonstrate that it sucks, or how it sucks, or why it sucks, or how Planescape or Hamilton don’t suck. You are just impressively stating that things are so.

    I’ve asked and asked for some objective criteria so we can discuss this. What makes something suck narratively? Why do Planescape and BG not suck? Why does ME suck? And all you go back to is that they simply are.

    These are NOT statements of fact, and no matter how often you repeat yourself it is not any more persuasive. The entire point of this discussion is to consider your contention that narratively ME sucks. Your explanation has boiled down to “it does” and “it should be obvious how much it sucks” and “I could go on and on about how much it sucks but if I have to do that then you must be too stupid to bother explaining it to because its obvious it sucks” and “I know people who say it sucks – and they’re so smart you’d instantly defer to their judgment if I told you who they are”.

    Look to the example of your unnamed critics compared to my unnamed critics. You state that you have secret impressive figures that stunningly all agree with you. You can’t name them because they are so staggeringly impressive, but these unnamed critics relayed by heresay thru you are somehow “proof” supporting how bad ME is narratively. To point out how silly that is as evidence to support your position, I mentioned the EXACT SAME THING supporting my position. You correctly point out that my anonymous writers and filmmakers allegedly liking ME is a silly thing to say . . . as you AGAIN invoke the phantoms of your experts, with yet another admonishment that if we even had a glimpse of who these notables were, our faces would melt in sheer amazement. Silly when I do it, completely justified when you do it:

    "'I know professional novelists and moviemakers and they love the story, considering it one of the best integrations of story into a game they have ever experienced'
    An extension of your faulty argument.”
    No – an extension of YOUR faulty argument . . . something I took pains to explicitly state. You apparently missed that , since you IMMEDIATELY go back to the same argument:
    “If you could actually find anyone of substance who would say this I would be surprised. I'm talking about real people you will have heard of. People who's films you will have watched and books you may well have read. You can't use a hypothetical and incredibly unlikely situation to counter an argument.”
    Do you understand how circular this is? ME sucks. I know people that say it sucks, so it sucks. That proves it sucks. You say you know people that say it doesn’t suck, but that can’t be true, because it sucks. Since it sucks, people saying it sucks is the only logical possibility, so me saying people think it sucks is utterly credible. Since ME sucks, you claiming that people don’t think it sucks is a (let me make sure I’ve got this quote right) “hypothetical and incredibly unlikely situation”.
    You certainly sound educated, so I’m trying to get through the smokescreen to whatever it is you are trying to say – but this logic is crap. I’m trying to say that as respectfully as possible, but this is really crap.
    Let me be blunt – I don’t give a hairy damn if you summoned the spirits of Bill Shakespeare and Cecil B. DeMille from the afterlife and have them give videotaped depositions about how much they hate ME. None of this answers the question I repeatedly ask, and you repeatedly avoid – WHY? “Because I said so” is nonsense. “Because someone else told me I was right” is nonsense once removed from nonsense.
    It is utterly irrevelant, but since you seem to have trouble believing somebody might actually say they like the store of ME (despite the hundreds of comments in this thread alone), my friends are a writer/novelist who has 2 multi-book SciFi series published, has written for White Wolf Role-Playing Games for over a decade, and dabbles at the New York Times. One filmmaker in Melborne, the other New York – the latter is busy settling details on his second project which is currently under NDA. NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT IS IRREVELANT TO THE CONVERSATION. Stop trying to impress me, because I’m not easy to impress, and “I have mysterious friends” isn’t going to accomplish it. I’m sure your friends are super-duper impressive, but “cuz my friends told me so” has NO impact on the question at hand, anymore than “cuz my friends told me it didn’t” does.
    Why. Does. Mass. Effect. Fail. Narratively? “Steven Spielberg and Alan Moore said so” isn’t an explanation. I’m asking you for an explanation . . . and you are not even attempting to provide one.

  • busboy33 #315 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    “I have not said anywhere, nor alluded to the fact that I want computer games to be like books. I am talking about quality of writing. That is a universal concept.”

    And yet you (a) can’t describe what quality writing is, although it is a universal concept and (b) consider ME a failure because it’s not as good a book as a book. Do I have that right? Its not that you want it to be a book, but rather that its not as good as a book.
    Why? Because. Blanket declarations again. And again, if your explanation is simply “yes it is” then I’m unfortunately forced to respond in my most erudite manner “no it isn’t”.

    Why. Does. Mass. Effect. Fail. Narratively?

    “No, you are introduced to the dialogue wheel concept when you talk to Joker on the Normandy.”

    You are correct Jacob wasn’t the first time you see the dialog wheel, but you are incorrect the conversation with Joker was the first time. The first time was with Ashley/Liara (depending on how you played ME1), and you were given two choices both that time and when you talk to Joker. The conversation with Jacob is (I believe) the first time you are given a “multi-choice” conversation option, where the wheel has the option to go into the “investigate” sub-menu.

    “Action that is not intterupted by inanity, a choice where you can say two very different things and a well maintained sense of urgency.”

    Did we see the same scene? The ship is literally falling apart, and you’re talking to Joker instead of simply grabbing him and throwing him into the escape pod. That seems less like an inane interruption in the action than talking to someone when you are under cover in a firefight and not under immediate threat? You can’t say two very different things. You can say “we’ve got to go” or you can say “we’ve got to go you idiot”. That constitutes “two very different things” but the rest of the game’s later conversations (giving up to 5 options ranging from threatening to kill someone to encouraging them to abuse someone else to asking what toys they have for sale) doesn’t?

    That simply makes no sense.

    “The moment it takes for him to inform you of squad decisions is fine. That happens at the very end of the conversation. After all the fluff. I can't explain something to somone if they just don;t understand.”

    After the fluff that YOU chose to ask about?

    Here is the dialog with Jacob:
    Jacob “Shepard? What the hell . . .”
    Jacob: “What are you doing here? I thought you were still a work in progress.”
    Shepard: “I just woke up. You probably know more than I do.”
    Jacob: “Right. Sorry about that. I’m Jacob Taylor. I’ve been stationed here for . . . (pause to look over cover at the mechs across the gap) . . . Dammit!”
    (Takes shot at one of two mechs across gap)
    Jacob: “Things must be worse than I thought if Miranda’s got you running around. I’ll fill you in, but we better get you to the shuttle first.”
    Shepard: (can ask questions, or can answer) “Lead the way.”

    Here’s a video: http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=uYgtCWNhlCY (starting at 3:56). Notice that even though this video shows the player choosing to ask questions (the “fluff” you dislike), after pretty much every question Jacob suggests you stop asking questions, you both finish the fight, and then get the hell out of there.
    Isn’t that EXACTLY what you are complaining isn’t there?

    What about that conversation is contrived, or “fluff”, or dragged out? Seems pretty short to me. What are you doing here? Oh, you don’t know me, and I bet you’re pretty confused. My name is Jacob, but lets get out of this firefight first then I’ll try to answer your questions.
    So if you kept getting conversation, that must be because YOU chose to play the story that way . . . and now you are complaining about how bad a decision that YOU made was? That’s bad writing on Bioware’s part? Again, that makes no sense.

    “This is not the same thing at all. You absolutely can not comapre the two. One is an atmosphere and tension sapping conversation in the middle of a firefight. The other is a philosophical and moral debate in a quiet moment just before a major decision is made. You know, the time when a conversation seems perfectly valid.”

    Again, I’m not sure you remember the scene accurately. There is no “quite moment”. Mordin pulls his gun out, points it at the scientist, declares “I’m going to kill him”, and then does so. The only way to say anything is to quick-jump on the Paragon interrupt. You are interrupting the dramatic flow of the scene by jumping in. There is no quiet moment of debate. Again, here’s a video to refresh your memory -- http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=-_cPDZd52d4 (start at 8:00).

  • busboy33 #316 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    “The choices you can make in Mass Effect 2 are cursory, illusory and superficial at best. You can in no way alter the structure of the story. You can in no way alter the characters or locations you visit. If you could now that really would be something.”

    SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
    I have to be honest . . . I’m starting to doubt you actually played this game. If Wrex died in ME1, clan Urdnot stays traditional. If Wrex lives, he takes over clan Urdnot and unites the Krogan clans. Do you think that the difference between the Illusive Man having access to Reaper Technology and not having access to it will be irrevelant in ME3? If you saved the Rachni Queen in ME1, she lets you know in ME2 that she will be ready for the fight in ME3 – if you didn’t that’s an entire faction that will not be present for the final battle. These are three things just off the top of my head, not even touching on the risk of death pretty much every character faces.
    But you’re not really changing things, right?
    E N D O F S P O I L E R S

    You are correct that the influence is limited – you can’t decide to turn Grunt into a ballerina for example. You can’t go to the Citadel and decide to nuke the station from orbit. But as an example of how you are impacting the story . . .

    “Tali has been with Shepherd for a while and she was exiled from her people.”

    No, she isn’t exiled. At least she isn’t exiled in my game. Did you get her exiled? Did you destroy her father’s legacy but keep her in the Migrant Fleet? Did you find a third (or fourth option)? Are the Quarians going to go to war against the Geth? Are they going to push for co-existence?
    I’d call that an impact on the gameworld. And out of curiposity, what great narrative gives you more impactful influence on the story?

    -why characters join-

    SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER
    Zaheed – because he was hired. What about his character makes you think he would cut and run? He’s been a soldier for hire for decades, so you think he’s going to run from a gunfight? Getting paid to get shot at is his job. And exactly how is he going to run? Open the door to the Normandy and jog down the street?
    Jack – initially goes with Shepard because it’s the only way off Purgatory, and if she stays she’ll be shot or re-frozen. She stays in order to get data on the organization that tortured her as a child so she can get revenge. Becomes loyal to you personally (not Cerberus) when you help her exact some of that revenge. She loves to fight, and this is the biggest fight around, potentially of all time. This is actually difficult for you to understand?
    Samara – honor-bound warrior. The policewoman has to detain her because her superiors don’t want her walking around the district killing people. Samara does not want to kill the cop, but she is duty bound to leave after 24 hours and duty bound to kill the cop if she tries to stop her. To avoid that, if you solve the injustice in the district she agrees to join your quest to stop injustice . . . which is pretty much her entire reason for existence. No way she’d be a part of that right?
    Thane – because he’s trying to make amends for his life as an assassin, and since he’s dying this mission provides a far better opportunity to do maximum good in the short time that he has than if he volunteered down at the soup kitchen twice a week.
    Mordin – two main reasons. First, he’s nuts. Second, he’s got a good heart. He wants to do good. Stopping the collectors and the reapers is doing good. Why do that instead of run a free clinic? Because its bigger.
    Garrus – He lives to fight evil. He can’t stay on Omega. He can go around shooting punk crooks or he can help you save the galaxy.
    END SPOILERS END SPOILERS END SPOILERS END SPOILERS

    You act like these are incomprehensible. These are all fully explained (must have been in all that “fluff” conversation you dislike). That you somehow think these explanations are crap, and sending a kid to get a book for the town in BG is good narrative . . . well, you’re entitled to your opinion. But as you keep commenting, there are acceptable standards of universal quality narrative and storytelling. WHICH. YOU. NEVER. DESCRIBE. OR. EXPLAIN. You just give you opinions. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but that and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee.

    These explanations make you roll your eyes . . . but The Nameless One tatooing an important message he needs to see on his back is perfectly fine in your eyes because its explained (the only place to tatoo). That "explains" why the tatoo would be on his back (unless he simply overwrote another tatoo), but it doesn't explain why he would to leave himself that message with a tatoo he can't see. You're fine with that though . . . but these explanations you cannot fathom.
    The reason the Hobbits didn't bake the Ring into a steel ingot to take to the volcano was because the Ring slowly warps the mind of the holder. Right . . . that's why, when they first got it, they should have baked it into the friggin steel ingot so they wouldn't be tempted later. Frodo didn't get the Ring then immediately start killing everybody, did he? You know holding the Ring will poison your mind SLOWLY, so don't hold it. Bake it into a steel lump. You can't be tempted, and then you can just take the steel lump to the fire and throw it in. Not doing that doesn't make sense.
    Except it DOES make sense in a narrative. The tension between the unintelligible behavior and the character provides the dramatic tension. There is an easy solution to the problem . . . but it would ruin the narrative that depends on that. Again though, you have no problem with "logic holes" in this but "logic holes" in ME are unacceptable. Your "Universal Standards" of storytelling seem to be "Jstar's standards of storytelling".
    That is blind opinion, nothing more, and frankly pretty shallow opinion at that.

  • kupocake #317 2 years ago

    Hooray. QUOTEAGEDDON has ended. (edit: no wait, spoke too soon).

    This game's quality make it one of the most important titles of recent years. Not humanity's finest achievement by any stretch, but completely deserving of a 10/10 and completely undeserving of three-post long pretentious e-penis arguments. Blogs exist for that level of hardcore analysis. Usually so it may be isolated and ignored completely.
    Edited by 2 at 02/02/10 @ 14:00

  • busboy33 #318 2 years ago

    @jstar (continued):

    "It's like saying these 300 Man U fans think Liverpool are shit and concluding that they are right."

    Or as ignorant as the one Liverpool fan telling everybody else they wouldn't know a good footie team if it bit them on their ass. Sound familiar?

    "A game that contains many of the same assinine conversations as games that preceded it by a decade and there is no mention of this whatsoever by the reviewers? And I'm the only person who thinks this is at the very least, a little odd?"

    Yes, you are. Some conversations in a conversation-having game will be similar. "Do you want to buy anything at my shop?" "I'll give you more/better assets to use in the game if you do 'X'" Things like that will replicate, because the RPG genre of games requires the gathering of assets, and gathering/buying assets needs to be tied to some form of expendature on the player's part. If the player can frontload assets without cost, then they can destroy the game economy and ecosystem. Therefore, getting assets will require currency/labor from the player, and being able to modify this transaction with a discount-for-optional-extra-effort is a reasonable and logical way to gove the system more flexability. Because the action is similar, the conversation will of necessity be similar.
    And if the conversation ARE similar, why are they brilliant in Planescape but idiotic now?

    "Is that actually from the game? I can't remember. I hope it is though as you just proved my point. How long ago was that game made? And we are still having exactly the same conversations now as we did then? So there has been absolutely no evolution in the intevening years? Years in which my age has practically doubled and my patience for crap has halfed."

    Well, I don't remember anybody in ME demanding a magic book to enter their planet, so I'm not sure how this conversation is being replicated. But even if it was, since Planescape is brilliant narrative, then it would be brilliant narrative to do this in ME, wouldn't it?

    "Let me fire a question back at you. Do you think that in anyway some of the worlds best writers are working in the games industry?"

    "Best Writers" is stunningly subjective (I'm shocked) so whatever writer I reference you can simply say "they aren't one of the best". To directly answer your question . . . probably not.

    Do you think some of the world's best writers are working in the film industry? Probably not. I guess that means that films suck narratively. If it doesn't . . . what exactly is your point with this question?

    "I don't think I should have used such extreme language. It is not a narrative failure. But is is far from good and far from what I expect in a story."

    And there we have the answer. Your initial comment was wrong. You don't like ME, but that's your opinion (and a perfectly valid one). The reviewer wasn't remiss in not sniffing derisively at the narrative because his opinion (and mine, and legions of others) is that the story is fantastic. But rather than simply say "my bad" or "I just don't like it", we've wasted pages of comments.

    You don't like it. Fine. I don't like Seinfeld. I don't think its funny at all. I don't understand why anybody laughs at it. But 20+ million fans seem to like it. I don't understand what they see in it, but between me saying "it sucks" and millions of millions of people saying "its hilarious" . . . I'm probably the person who's wrong. Maybe I'm not. I don't think I'm wrong. But snobbishly declaring "Anybody who doesn't recognize how pathetic Seinfeld is compared to the genius of Alf is obviously ignorant of the comic muses" just makes me look like an ass.

  • busboy33 #319 2 years ago

    @kupcake (and everybody else):

    My bad. I should have walked away from it, and I didn't.

    Sorry to everybody for chokin gthe thread. My bad, and I'll stop now.

  • DocktorJ #320 2 years ago

    Jesus... it's only a game...

  • dryden555 #321 2 years ago

    Wish they had added RPG elements rather than take them away. Shooter fans will love it. For me, I'll pass.

  • DjFlex52 #322 2 years ago

    "Wish they had added RPG elements rather than take them away. Shooter fans will love it. For me, I'll pass. "

    Why do people keep saying this? It's not true and they definitely haven't played ME2. And I don't think shooter fans will love this game. There are more than enough RPG elements still in this game to render it boring to shooter fans. There are loads of sidequests, weapon upgrades, customization options, dialogue decisions and story angles to ensure this is a Bioware RPG. I'm only Level 11 and have clocked in 15 enjoyable hours.

    If this game was using turn-based combat instead of really solid 3rd person shooting combat, noone would be claiming this isn't a pure rpg game :)
    Edited by 1 at 04/02/10 @ 06:23

  • Zephro #323 2 years ago

    They would, as the inventory and stats systems don't really do much to customise your characters. If you pick up a weapons upgrade/bigger gun. everyone in your party gets it.

  • DjFlex52 #324 2 years ago

    Just because everyone in your party gets a weapon/armor upgrade instead of individual party members, ME2 is considered less of an RPG? I don't think so. Nitpickers will always find flaws even when there aren't any ;-)

  • Velios #325 2 years ago

    I'm loving this game - the combat is just SO much better than in the first one!

  • Jwoozy #326 2 years ago

    Pretty disappointing score, EG.

    Mass Effect is all plot and no character. Shepard in any incarnation you choose is flat, poorly acted, and ugly as sin, and Bioware's typically juvenile and deliberately polarizing system of "morality" robs him of the vital nuance required to make an interesting personality. ME2 could have done everything else right and it would still deserve a 9 for managing to deliver a main character so dull and uncompelling that I yearn for the days when "..." passed for acceptable dialogue.

  • VMerken #327 2 years ago

    Well, finished the game in Normal with a Paragon-only clvl 50 build from ME1.

    Impression so far: Normal = Very Easy. No challenges encountered, and I covered the main quest and (I think) virtually all the side missions. If there's a challenge in there, I haven't seen it. The mini games ("caress a tennis ball", "play Memory against the clock" and "Pattern matching";) are mildly boring to boring time wasters. The hub worlds feel cramped and pretty much devoid of interaction. Main Character interaction is sparse (really, Garrus, just how many calibrations does the ship need? Go on, take a break and chat) but then again, there are lots of Main Characters this time around.

    Apart from the above, this is a very good Action Adventure.

    Currently on Veteran with a Renegade-only clvl 52 build from ME1 to have a clear view of both polarities in this game. Hopefully, the experience will be better, complete the storytelling experience and, most importantly, start to be challenging.

    Disclaimer: this is a personal opinion from a veteran Mass Effect 1 player who is overjoyed that the Mako is gone, yet cringes at the thought of having to caress a lot of tennis balls during each Mass Effect 2 playthrough.

  • Aiko #328 2 years ago

    Female Shephard rules, but the male acting is really bad. Its a good job i play females. I also find it easy to make the female look hot, cool and matching the vioce well. Where as the male i can't make him look good and he just sounds wrong.

  • dryden555 #329 2 years ago

    DjFlex52 I am glad you are enjoying ME2 (seriously) but you dont really defend your statement very well about how great an RPG ME2 is. I wonder if you feel the same way after finishing the game?

  • Postumo #330 2 years ago

    Finished it on PC.

    Perfect Game. The main story maybe lacks a bit because is a bridge to Mass Effect 3, which looks epic.

    They could have improved the textures though.

  • dcangel #331 2 years ago

    Dredging up another dead thread...

    I'm still ambivalent about this game. Many of the decisions made in terms of changes over ME1 are very beneficial and make the game much more fun to play, the story is similarly involving, the acting is generally excellent and the whole thing is much more polished.

    But something's not quite right. I can't quite define it. Maybe it's the way the RPG mechanics have been cut to the bone, the obviously mission-based structure of the game that unnecessarily breaks the flow, the seeming reduction in the "bigness" of the universe (in terms of scale, not size), or the inability to drive around on the surface of a planet looking for diamonds and bad guys.

    Whatever it is, I can't say I loved it in the same way as ME1. It's still very, very good, but maybe not a 10.

    Actually, EG, you seem to be quite free and easy with the 10s lately. You feeling OK?