Gaikai: Cloud Computing Gameplay That Works?
Eurogamer versus gaming over IP: round two.
Is this the most low-key debut for a new gaming system yet seen? On Wednesday, Gaikai's David Perry posted a video of the first in-game action of his company's "Cloud" computing gameplay system. No hype, no fanfare: just one man, his PC, a wireless headset and a copy of FRAPS. No claims of one millisecond hardware video encoders, no talk of seven years of "stealth development", just a transparent demo captured at Casa de Perry of a streaming gameplay system that seemingly just... works. Amongst other things, it showed World of Warcraft and Super Mario Kart running in a common or garden browser with no plug-ins required. I think it looks authentic, it looks like it might work.
That might surprise a lot of people, bearing in mind that it was my Eurogamer article on how OnLive can't possibly work that juxtaposed the cold hard facts of technological reality with the quite extraordinary claims being made by the OnLive people about streaming gameplay video. But it's important to factor in the notion that the feature was equally explicit about the ways and means in which such a system could potentially stream gameplay over IP. It wouldn't be half as flashy or as awe-inspiring as the OnLive people would seemingly want it to be, but it would work and it could be very cool. The question is, what would you do with it?
Looking at Perry's Gaikai video, it was somewhat reassuring to see that my take on the reality of such a system somewhat vindicated. Gaikai looks authentic because it isn't a state of the art replacement for our PS3s or Xbox 360s in the way that OnLive aspires to be. It's not about getting a mini-box into your living room that supplants console hardware now and forever. Curious to know more, I got in contact with Gaikai directly and fished about for an interview. But in the meantime, I took another look at David Perry's video debut for the Gaikai system, made some annotations and put together this new version of the original video, complete with technical analysis.
The Gaikai technology debut video, supplemented by our own technical annotations.
What struck me about the presentation was that there was absolutely nothing unbelievable in it whatsoever. There were no claims of streaming 720p gameplay at 60 frames per second - games were running in differently sized windows according to how difficult they were to compress, and video itself runs at the internet standard 30FPS.
There was no talk of world-beating compression systems that annihilate the work of the best minds in video encoding today, the demo was using the exact same h264 codec that we use in the Eurogamer TV Flash player. And finally, there was nothing here to suggest that we were looking at a technological breakthrough that would make our PS3s and Xbox 360s obsolete... just that this was a brand new way to play games in an ultra-accessible manner. Fire up your browser and you're on your way.
Not that there weren't questions of course. No-one appears convinced by the notion that we can play games in real time over the internet with no noticeable lag as both Gaikai and OnLive believe to be possible. Secondly, the idea that this would play anywhere without any kind of plug-in also didn't sit right - surely we'd be talking about custom code here just to get a picture on-screen at all? And finally the "as is" presentation of the video was great, but meant we learned nothing about the ethos behind the whole project and what it was actually setting out to achieve.
Gaikai's David Perry told me that the low-key strategy for the reveal was in part down to our reaction to the glitzy OnLive presentation. Their aim was quite literally to keep it real, hence the FRAPS video approach for the public "unveiling". A similar policy of transparency was used for the E3 demos too.
"There are two ways to do smoke and mirrors," Perry tells me. "I can put a server at the end of your street, or set up in the local datacentre within a mile of your house and do a demo from that, or I can do what OnLive did and pay for a whole bunch of custom cables to be brought into the convention centre that aren't part of the normal infrastructure and we could do it that way... One of the things we needed to get past at E3 was that it would only run on super-fast PCs. So between us all, Rui [Pereira, Gaikai co-founder] had the worst laptop we had - a little Netbook that was running WiFi. What we wanted was for publisher to see two things. First that we can run on that hardware. Secondly the Wi-Fi at E3 was outrageously bad because of all of the wireless traffic going on. If they could play on that little laptop in those conditions, that should put the whole issue to rest."
So, let's talk latency. I have to admit that since the OnLive piece debuted my hardline approach to what is and isn't possible has softened somewhat. On the Digital Foundry blog, I sometimes make mention of Mick West's piece on measuring game latency and I'm currently working on a follow-up feature to that. The work I've done already validates all of West's results. When you see that games like Halo already run with a local lag of 133ms, you get the idea that players are already conditioned to a certain level of responsiveness - or rather unresponsiveness - in their games. "That's a great article to read," says Perry. "It's one of the best articles we've seen. The game itself is where the big delay is."
It's important to point out though that Gaikai/OnLive can't reduce that lag, they will always be adding to it. However, in theory the difference could be less pronounced than the difference in controller response between Halo 3 and Killzone 2, which can be around 33ms in the Bungie game's favour.
Over and above that, for me, the issue now is all about quality of service. The internet is in a state of flux, with constantly changing conditions. While I'm coming around to the notion that the lag question can be resolved, the challenge is in maintaining the consistency of the connection. The fact is we live in a world where a Skype call can drop at any time, and where even on my 8MB ADSL line, sometimes I can't even stream a medium-quality YouTube vid.
"The reality is they're two different kinds of things," says Perry. "One is voice-over-IP. If I'm talking to someone in New York the communications are going all the way across the country. In YouTube's case, it's creating this mega-service infrastructure in some big building somewhere that's trying to get across to us. Our system is all about putting the servers close to the users."
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Comments (26) 7 months ago
Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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With this technology any device that can run flash in a web browser can play a game. That means anything from your iPhone to your netbook and desktop PC can be streaming content over a reasonable 2 megabit connection.
If the service scales very well theres nothing stopping you from playing a simple game over a 3G connection on your cellphone and then using wi-fi to play some World of Warcraft on your netbook and then finally go home to your faster connection and play a more bandwidth demanding game like NFS: Prostreet.
I think this is the right way to go about the whole cloud computing thing to. It's really quite baffling why OnLive are pushing a solution that they say is cheap but then trying to meet the expectations of another target audience.
These cloud computing services don't have to aim for insane resolutions they just have to be cheap and provide basic graphics on a wide range of platforms accessible anywhere with a internet connection.
Gaikai and OnLive don't even have to bother with HD resolutions they can just use Standard Defintion like Nintendo did with the Wii and as long as their services are accessible and cheap they will sell.
Most people don't give a crap about HD or 5.1 surround they just care about whats cheaper and more convenient. If you ask people to purchase a dedicated piece of hardware when they can get an experience nearly as good through their internet connection for much less money they will ditch the hardware and go for the cheaper option.
We've already seen this with MP3 killing big dedicated hi-fi systems people used to own. Now nobody buys hi-fis as MP3's are just cheaper and they already have a computer. It's not hard to tell consoles will eventually go the same way.
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@Kratos1986
Agree, like Mp3 etc, people will accept a drop in quality for accessibility and convenience. Aiming for HD and full surround for a service like this, even if technically possible is overkill right now.
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Double buffered vsync to an 8ms monitor produces input latency of up to 8ms. This is unacceptable, so most PC gamers turn it off. Even triple buffering can produce enough lag to be offputting.
A console control system can introduce 100-150ms of input latency. And now you want to add network latency on top of that?
This Gaikai system might work for console games, but PC gamers will not accept these latency figures. People WILL notice, in those games that are designed to take advantage of the PCs responsiveness.
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Add in the inevitable extra lag and I think the quality of the experience will be too low to convince many potential purchasers. Live game streaming will have it's day, it's just not today.
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The implication that flash gaming is some kind of undesirable aberation - not part of the 'games industry' is somewhat telling. It seems like Perry hasn't considered that at least some of those plays might be due to properties of the flash games themselves, rather than the lack of the ability to stream traditional hardcore games down the browser.
For example, the fact that because flash has a much lower technical barrier to entry, it empowers game creators who aren't necessarily technically minded. Writers, artists, kids, dentists... who may have a fresh and interesting take on gaming. Or that its a great prototyping tool which can be used to rapidly explore new gameplay mechanics. Or even that the short form of many flash games makes them ideal for lunchtime gaming sessions.
Oh well. Good luck to him though, like.
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since, you know, nowadays demos are pretty scarce.
but as a full fledged gaming experience... eeeeh.
I'd be more interested if they provided also console games, since I lack the proper platform and don't intend to buy it for just a couple of titles.
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So check it out and maybe it will be interesting to analyze or something. And I believe I'll use it when Pandora console will be in my hand =) (As I recall they said thay will make a Linux ARM version some day)
http://streammy game.com/smg/index.php
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it's not about platform that much, it can be any nintendo game, some shell shaded xbox360 and ps3 games.
it''s a good way to sample games, or to have demo leels
it end piracy, that a huge ting! to bad crysis doesn't work well
but mouse and keyboard input for playing games designed to play with game controllers would be a probblem, it would limit the amount and diversity of games available on the system
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First one, the example cited in the article of 61 million people playing flash games. I do understand that it's directed at possible investors reading about the service, but at the same time, as was already noted above in this thread, those 61 million people are not necessarily going to run into open arms of big game publishers. Since to the best of my knowledge, no one is forcing anyone to play flash games, the logical conclusion is that those 61 million people are playing flash games by choice, and not due to lack of means of play something else.
On related note, as was also mentioned above, the controls for console games translate rather poorly into mouse and keyboard setup, as any person emulating console games on pc can tell.
Second issue concerns the payment for playing games using this service. While it sounds well and good in the interview, does anyone think that all, or even most big publishers will suddenly let you play for a free for a bit (10 minutes perhaps? 20?) using this service? And if not, how will it work? The answer is special plugins distributed by specific publishers, like the infamous EA downloader, that will validate if you bought the game before you will be granted access to it. So basically what it really comes down to is access to the games you already bought, but outside your house. Now tell me, how many people really can afford to play 'big' games at work (or while driving!)? They tend to require large amounts of time to get tangible progress (30-45 minutes for 'roleplaying' games, a bit less for driving ones), and that amount of time is just not feasible at any setting other than home or holiday (but if you go for holiday just to play computer games, you can as well cut the middle man and stay at home..).
So the whole 'play your games at work' idea is, to me, a good way to get sacked, and not bringing about the future to you.
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I think some commenters missed the point about the flash games. The good thing about flash games is that you just have to click and play. Most other games you have to spend alot of money, but or download, install, configure and then play. Making it easy to access games is the point, not that flash games are good or bad... I didn't see a statement on how flash games are bad, just on how people who play flash games miss out on these other games because of the hassle there is in getting them.
Also, Silvervein, what's wrong with a simple login to see if you've payed for a game? An account where you can add your legit CD-KEYS? Much better for the game-companies to weed out keys published online or keygened. There could be simple separation: games you've bought before are ignored, but you can pay to play on the system other games you don't have. It's up to the publisher.
Also, why can't other people who aren't gamers be enticed by a system like this to play at home?
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Unfortunately, flash is terrible on anything but Windows (slow, CPU hungry). So once again, you can play these Windows games... if you're on Windows.
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I don't think that they tried to come across as provider of easy to install and use games. In case of consoles, you put in a disk and play. In case of pc, you put in a disk and play. In case of the system discussed here, you open a window and play. What's the difference?
As far as I understood, their main point is that they allow people to play games on whatever system they have, wherever they are. So on other words, give publishers additional revenue by providing their games to people who don't play them now (they used flash games as an example). Good luck to them, but I find a small logical error in the assumption they made about vast majority of people who play flash games starting to play other game types, given a chance.
As for the simple login, there is nothing wrong with it of course. The problem is that so far, no company using online cd key validation method went for 'simple login', instead forcing me to install very hard to remove software that in some cases allows them access to some of the data on my computer without my consent. And I do have a problem with that.
Which is why I don't think that if this service goes live 'simple login' will be the way taken by publishers. And if you think about the number of publishers present nowadays, and think that each one will have separate application checking validity of their games... well.
And people who aren't gamers can enjoy games of course. The problem is that, to my knowledge (based on all the people I know or play with online) they are not playing games because they are not into games and prefer other kinds of entertainment. Giving them one more way to use entertainment product they don't want won't necessarily make them change their mind about games.
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I think the point is that the network latency would replace console latency, so you wouldn't see too much difference. These guys sound much less stupid than OnLive; I'd give it a go.
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1. Perry posts a single video with low-res graphics and low frame rate.
2. Perry doesn't allow anyone else who has tried Gaikai to say anything on the record.
3. Perry says he's got publishers and investors all over him, yet not a single one has said they have any involvement.
4. Perry has admitted he has just started testing testing the system in homes at a distance from the server
5. Perry was supposed to give the whole world a chance to try Gaikai at E3, then pulled out at the last minute because of "patent problems", and instead gave demos that no one was allowed to report on except Perry.
6. Perry has not explained how Gaikai's codecs will be distributed with Flash. There is no relationship with Adobe. If Gaikai's codec's a proprietary browser download, how is this different than OnLive's browser download? If there is a backdoor into Flash allowed by Adobe, why can't OnLive use it, too?
7. It seems like every other comment from Perry is dissing OnLive. The guy's hyper-defensive. Hardly what I'd expect from someone confident about his own tech/business.
So, what part of this isn't amateur-hour?
Maybe cloud gaming will work and maybe it won't. I, for one, hope it does work. But if it's going to happen, be real: it's going to take a company with major support and it's going to take tons of testing and debugging in lots of homes. It's not coming from some company that's proud of the fact it hasn't spent years doing in-home testing.
With OnLive, I see real investors, real publisher partnerships and tons of on-the-record articles where press, analysts, publishers and bloggers are playing with OnLive on different kinds of connections, like the Joystiq E3 test on a cable modem.
When Gaikai, I see one video of Dave Perry playing with himself while he fantasizes about investors and publisher partners and reports that it feels good.
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This is why I'm confused with the term "streaming". I thought streaming was immediately consuming video data straight from the line, whereas Flash is actually downloading the video to memory (although from beginning to end so you can start watching), hence that grey bit in youtube videos which shows the downloaded part you can seek to. Thus flash needs to download the video in its absolute entirety, so a guaranteed data-complete service like TCP is needed. So "flash streaming" is a bit of an oxymoron?
Or has "streaming video" term carried over from the dark ages of Realplayer/WMP plugin streams?
And can anyone shed some light on whether flash or that HTML5 thing can use UDP for video?
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These streaming game services are a con pure and simple. Whoever is investing in them needs to go get some impartial technical advice pronto because they are being made fools of!
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For something non-action, super. For action it won't work and Pro Street is hardly the most twitch driving game.
And I'm on a 20mbit connection and the video of the demo paused twice. Nothing big for watching a demo, death if I was trying to play a game.
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It is particularly grinding when you point out that it uses the same codec as the Eurogamer Flash video player, but then pretending to not understand how it could possibly work without a plug in. I thought that if they're decoding the same h264 video stream as the Eurogamer player, then practically the same player (made in Flash) would work!
Anyway, you go on to make a clear difference between OnLive and Gaikai's business model and target markets, so I'll stop complaining. Gaikai certainly sound more reserved than OnLive.
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In the first article you assume OnLive can't do any better than h264, a codec designed with entirely different assumptions in mind, then declare it perfect for Gaikai. How could Onlive possbily be worse than Gaikai at SD for fast motion after 7 years development? Why's the notoriously demanding Flash plugin a better solution? Even if their HD option isnt up to snuff, theres no advantage for Gaikai here.
How are publishers using the Gaikai service better able to anticipate demand? Onlive know how many subscribers they have and the growth rate and user habits are predictable.
What's the issue with Onlive designing its own hardware? It's nowhere near as ambitious as releasing another console platform. It has little impact on the difficulty of porting a game to each, both simply need a few weeks of work to remove irrelevant settings etc.
How's Gaikai "constantly adding datacenters" a good thing when the authors worried about each service's ambition?
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Another thing is that people (well, most serious players anyway) don't want pretty pictures over gameplay. I'd rather play FFVII these days than the latest flashy NFS game on my Xbox 360. Very rarely do we get the gameplay and the visuals, and when we do, we get fleeced. Publishers make out that their latest offering has 60fps HD whizz bang fluid graphics and when asked is the story any good, they answer - 'but we have 60fps, man!'
I'll be up for this, as I'm just the type that has god knows how many usernames and passwords for trials and games on web browsers, as I get to play and mess around whilst she's watching Eastenders and the like...
Good luck Gaikai, I say...
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