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EVE Online's Player Council: The Big Vote Article

MMO PC Article by Jim Rossignol

13 May, 2008

Page 2 of 2. <- Page 1

But does he think that the CSM can really change the game for the better and fix the problems that already face the game world? "The cynic in me says 'no'. The idealist in me says 'I hope it does'," says Hardin. "Certainly, many view it as nothing more than a PR stunt. However, I think CCP may just underestimate the power embodied in a body elected democratically through a popular vote. They may end up listening, even if they never really planned to in the first place. Certainly, no other MMORPG that I know offers its players an opportunity to directly influence the game's future development."

Jade Constantine, another relatively famous name in the space-lanes, will also be standing. A vote for Jade is a vote for supporting the little guy. Constantine runs a 150-man alliance, and isn't interested in the grand 1000-man territorial alliance game: "I decided to run for CSM because I believe in EVE, I love the game, I have a strong sense of the heart and passion of the server and, having risen from obscurity to fame and glory myself, I want to ensure these same opportunities are protected and enhanced for newer players and those just starting out in EVE today.

"The CSM needs a voice for independent, non-huge-alliance players," Constantine continues. "It needs an advocate for small-unit PVP and conflict dynamism, and it deserves a candidate with the experience, maturity, good humour and enthusiasm to see this inaugural CSM session achieve its full potential for the benefit of every player." [Talk about on-message. This one will go far - Ed.]

"Dynamism" has become Constantine's buzzword, and it's a concept that CCP really should pay attention to. "The main thing is, I'd love to see the game break its addiction to POS warfare and move to a more dynamic form of sovereignty conflict and assessment that brings the focus back to players fighting players rather than players fighting structures," Constantine says. "I think we've moved far too far down the route to 'Sim City in space', and a lot of the current space-alliances have become overused to safety and security and the knowledge that their holdings are effectively invulnerable and persistent. I think we've got to return to the notion that if you put something in open space, it's open to attack, and empire builders must be able to defend their empires."

'EVE Online's Player Council: The Big Vote' Screenshot 3

Meanwhile, Goonswarm candidate Goumindong could prove to be popular, not only because of the vast size of the Goon faction, but also thanks to his contribution to the debate about ship-speed, or "nano", in EVE Online. "It ruins the ability of non-nano ships to partake in PVP, it creates a hegemony of the old and rich, it removes otherwise viable fitting options of for all sub-battleship ship classes, and as a 'no lose' choice they encourage and promote everyone to follow the same model which is boring, stagnant, and offers no legitimate meta options except bringing more nano-ships," says Goumindong. "There needs to be both a reduction in speed and a proliferation of more counters."

He's not wrong. This is one of the most significant issues in the game today, and it's the one that I personally would like the CSM to go chasing after. A PVP game is nothing without broad balance, and EVE currently lacks precisely that. (We'll be writing a more detailed article about PVP in EVE in the coming weeks.)

In a few months' time, we'll be able to see whether CCP's project to give more power to the players will work out for the best, as the CSM is elected and then convenes in Iceland at CCP HQ. Can the players make their issues heard? Will it really change the course of development? For the moment, players seem sceptical, both of the council idea, and of the notion that players can actually influence the direction CCP will take the game.

'EVE Online's Player Council: The Big Vote' Screenshot 4

Band Of Brothers pilot Chowdown says, "Well, I am not really a hater, but what I have seen so far, in my opinion, is a council put together that will not bring about change." Meanwhile, StateCorp pilot D'Jannek says, "I can't see the devs taking too much notice of their complaints on actual game balance issues, and I foresee it just being a popularity contest - pretty much just Goons versus various forum celebrities."

There might some truth in this, but I believe that CCP are only formalising what was already there in the symbiotic-antagonistic relationship between what the players want, or think they want, and what the developers want, or think they want. Perhaps, if that dynamic can be made explicit, and dialogue can really be integrated into the design process, EVE Online will evolve into something bigger and better than it is today.

Let's cast our votes.

EVE Player Council voting closes on 19th May. Check the MMO channel next week for an update on the results. Screenshots by roBurky.

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Comments: 1-22 of 22 in total

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Nallen
13/05/08 @ 13:00
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3 year playing vet with multiple accounts here. I don't know anything about any of the candidates other than their forum personas and I wont be voting. I can't help feeling CCP have gone to far to pandering to the forum superstars tbh, they made the game, they know the issues and they should fix them. Now a few people with personal bias will have influence on what the rest of us do? No thanks.
ps3owner
13/05/08 @ 13:05
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haven't played EVE actively, but some other less spectacular MMOG's

http://www.ogame.org for example.

I must agree with Nallen. Some forum trolls are more equal than others... and the once the post the most (even if it's utter shit) get to represent the masses.

not a good system.

the producer of the game should fix the known issues (whatever they are in this case) and that's it. the community will always vote with their feet.
Mr_Brown
13/05/08 @ 13:15
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Not much of a eve player but I am tempted to dip my toe in the water. I think if they are to do this sucessfully, the forums should not even be included and everything should be done through the ingame. Obviously players will use forums for popularitiy, but more incentive should be given to the more sucessful players and guilds in the game. Canditates should really come from the larger guilds and most sucessful players rather than forum trolls, who for the most part, are counter productive to everything bar themselves if Eurogamer forums are anything to go by.
Machiavel
13/05/08 @ 14:15
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/awaits EVE m0t0rb1kes
Snooz
13/05/08 @ 14:19
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Will my klingon skills work with icelandic?
sarkster
13/05/08 @ 14:40
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I knew Hardin from when he was one of the founder members of PIE with me and a few others. Im tempted to reactivate just to vote for him. Hes a top bloke.
13/05/08 @ 15:11
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3 year vet here also.

Had enough of corrupt politics :P
Nallen
13/05/08 @ 15:14
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I think if they are to do this sucessfully, the forums should not even be included and everything should be done through the ingame.

Yes. Big Yes.

I knew Hardin from when he was one of the founder members of PIE with me and a few others. Im tempted to reactivate just to vote for him. Hes a top bloke.

I on the other hand don't know anything about him, and the alliance I'm in have been going on fleet ops with CVA for over a year and working with them from before we even were an alliance. Just goes to show that even the most 'famous' of eve players can be total unknowns for almost everyone. Same goes for Jade, fought wars against him for months, know almost nothing about him.

Here's another thing to consider, these people are big in Eve because of what they've done in the dark underbelly of Eve, 0.0. If memory serves correctly the first QER stated only 9% of the Eve player base actually exists in 0.0, the rest are in empire (secure space). So now the loudest shouters of just 9% decide content changes for the other 91%?

It doesn't work for me, very 95% of the wealth, 5% of the population. There was enough of that with T2 BPO's :)

On the other hand it's those very same people that kick off after every change and it is a rare thing indeed that the screaming gets much done. Perhaps CCP's sole intent is to allow that screaming before changes go in, asses if that very slim change of a change being acted upon exists and then implementing things with the caveat that the screaming should have already been done.

I think there is a place for player driven development in MMO games, it is after all basically a huge ongoing QA process on a regularly patched piece of software. However I think it should be limited to the hard facts, god knows Eve players can be somewhat hardcore with their stats and maths. If a balance issue can be proven then players have every right to shout and be heard. Developers should make a change. However when it comes to opinions of how things should be done I think you're going to far to take the opinion of one as the opinion of many and act on it.
corposant
13/05/08 @ 15:16
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This player representative thing seems like a pretty good idea. I haven't played EVE in a while but I was always impressed with the level of customer service and the attention paid by the devs to comments made by the players. Maybe this will help make for an even better gaming experience. Certainly the comments by some of the candidates in the article are encouraging.

As a an incidental addition, I also knew Hardin of old. Top bloke tbh. Hope he wins.
Hardin
13/05/08 @ 16:10
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First off - Thanks to Jim for the interview opportunity - and nice article. Only one thing - I am not leader of the CVA - just its mouthpiece. The real leader is publicity shy and likes to sit in his bunker stroking his white cat - so it's all good.

Secondly - Thanks for the comments Sarkster and Corposant - Please come back and play EVE again. Corposant you will be pleased to know that your brainchild 'The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Slaves' is still going strong ;)

Thirdly - to the chap who stated that he has been on ops with CVA and doesn't know me - well I do have two other accounts and my main PvP character is Siobhan. So maybe that rings some bells (or not). I do disagree with your assessment of the 0.0/Empire split. While most characters are based in Empire space - a large percentage of those are owned and operated by 0.0 characters, so the divide is not quite as obvious as the raw numbers portray it.

And finally - if you are interested in the EVE CSM elections check out my blog http://www.hardinfaq.blogspot.com as it links some of the other campaign resources and info...

Edited 1 times, most recently on 13/05/08 @ 17:13
El_MUERkO
13/05/08 @ 16:20
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i voted for the chin thou i think the council is a bit of a waste of time, curious to see how many goons get on
Hardin
13/05/08 @ 16:35
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Well this was the extremely cynical - but funny - view of Sarmaul on the Scrapheap forums:

CSM: The greatest achievement of CCP's existence: reducing the amount of complaints levelled at the game & company by turning the most vocal forum whores against each other, while getting everyone else to participate.
SerenitySteele
13/05/08 @ 17:00
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Hi Jim,

How's your book coming along?

Thanks for the mention in your article :)

I'd like to add that since the ISS IPO Projects ended, I been running a regular newsletter Outpost Alert! to 4500 subscribers, the most popular EVE Alliance Rankings and published a CCP licenced EVE Strategic Map Book (ships this week).

/Serenity
Edited 2 times, most recently on 13/05/08 @ 18:02
Jade_Constantine
13/05/08 @ 17:51
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Interesting article, thanks for that. If anyone would like a little more detail on my personal CSM platform feel free to come and have a read on the official Eve forums at:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard....

Or my CSM blog:

http://www.jericho-fraction.net/wordpress/

The election still has 6 days to run so please get out and vote and maybe just maybe we can stop the big alliance fat-cats dominating the show and voting more defensive powers for their Outposts and Towers! :)

Xeaon
13/05/08 @ 18:08
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Maybe one of you could get POS and other such boring shite removed from eve \o/
Hardin
13/05/08 @ 18:12
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Edited: No need to bring EVE political arguments here. I am sure Eurogamer readers are bored enough of politicians without myself and Jade fighting it out here too!
Edited 3 times, most recently on 13/05/08 @ 19:27
13/05/08 @ 18:57
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I have a question.

How many peeps did CCP insta-ban for downloading the leaked eve code?
Jade_Constantine
13/05/08 @ 19:04
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>>Maybe one of you could get POS and other such boring shite removed from eve \o/

Well, the main thing is getting POS removed from the Sovereignty System. I'd be very happy to see POS returned to their roots as purely economic platforms used by moon-miners and researchers.

I don't think POS are a good basis for territorial warfare though - we do need Eve to return to a more honest model of warfare where territorial ownership is about player on player fleet action - not player vs Structure grindfests with gangs of ships shooting POS shields for hour after tedious hour and feeling their sense of wonder and space operatics evaporating in a puff of dull mediocrity.
ilmaestro
13/05/08 @ 19:20
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Every day I'm tempted to stat playing EVE, I'm not sure if this makes me more likely or less likely, but it sounds like a fairly cool idea, if handled sensitively by CCP.
Xeaon
13/05/08 @ 19:47
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"Well, the main thing is getting POS removed from the Sovereignty System. I'd be very happy to see POS returned to their roots as purely economic platforms used by moon-miners and researchers.

I don't think POS are a good basis for territorial warfare though - we do need Eve to return to a more honest model of warfare where territorial ownership is about player on player fleet action - not player vs Structure grindfests with gangs of ships shooting POS shields for hour after tedious hour and feeling their sense of wonder and space operatics evaporating in a puff of dull mediocrity. "


That would be superb if the game could return to actual fleet vs fleet combat, but I think sadly it's too far gone now for it to return to how it was. There would have to be a major shift in attitudes in how things were done atleast. God I miss the old days of eve heh.
Nookyalar
13/05/08 @ 21:41
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*Yawn* As soon as I finish my 5 jumps to get some minerals, I'm going to vote forzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *snore*
3william56
14/05/08 @ 04:12
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Taking this all a wee bit seriously, no?
/runs for mayor of Liberty City

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