Editor's blog: Darkfall aftermath

By Tom Bramwell Published 6 May, 2009

Aventurine's response and ours.

Update, 17th July: Kieron's review is now live.

Yesterday Eurogamer MMO published a review of Darkfall Online, scoring the game 2/10.

Several hours later, after a bit of email discussion, Aventurine responded on its forum, claiming the review was factually inaccurate and the reviewer had played the game for only two hours.

As I said to Tasos Flambouras from Aventurine yesterday, I take any feedback on our reviews - and especially this kind of response - extremely seriously. However, I disagree with Flambouras' depiction of events.

The reviewer in question, Ed Zitron, disputes the server logs that Aventurine presents as fact. According to the logs they supplied, Ed played the game for just over three hours. Ed says the logs miss out two crucial days and understate others, which suggests they are incomplete, and he insists he played the game for at least nine hours.

I did tell Flambouras - as he writes on the forum - that Ed is a contributor rather than a staff writer, but the implication is that I said this to distance Ed from Eurogamer. This is wrong. Ed Zitron has my full support.

As I told Flambouras, Ed's references and background are immaculate, as many PC Zone readers will attest. I also do not believe server logs are incontrovertible proof of the scenario Aventurine describes. Aventurine says Ed's response is a "lie", and demanded that I take down the review and issue a retraction, but I can't do that on the basis of the evidence presented.

Speaking as someone who hasn't played the game, questions of factual accuracy are more difficult for me to quantify (although the review thread has a crack, and you should read it if you're interested). It's also hard to judge from a distance whether two, nine or 50 hours would be appropriate to review Darkfall, as this clearly varies enormously from game to game.

That said, the passion with which Aventurine has attacked Ed's review is considerable, and the allegations obviously go a long way beyond arguing the toss. With this in mind, it seems only fair to take another look at Darkfall to supplement the review we've already published.

I've already contacted another one of our PC writers, Kieron Gillen, who has agreed to review Darkfall. Kieron is a vastly experienced, award-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of Rock, Paper, Shotgun. I'll publish his review as soon as it's ready, and we will see whether he agrees with Ed or not.

It's safe to say that we've learned some lessons from this episode, and they will be beneficial when it comes to future reviews. In the meantime, any and all discussion of the subject on the forums and comments threads is fine. Just as game developers have to deal with the response to their work, so too do we, and you've every right to criticise and debate it.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (518) 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • PearOfAnguish #1 3 years ago

    Introduce a special -10/10 score just for this game.

  • Wastelander #2 3 years ago

    Yeah, I'd totally go for the 1/10.
    Or, instead of a written review, just a goatse with the darkfall logo coming at you out of the dark.

  • Benno #3 3 years ago

    The only thing worse than Darkfall was the EG Darkfall review.

  • RM2KMaster #4 3 years ago

    If you can learn one thing from this, it's that rabidly passionate fanbases are a mixed blessing.

  • EG_IS_BALLS #5 3 years ago

    Problem is that if you review 5% of the game and even not understanding how it's played --- how can you even give points to it?

  • twelveways #6 3 years ago

    Like the rabidly passionate EG fanbase? ;)

  • DDevil #7 3 years ago

    4/10 - twice as good.

    Lesson learnt: Don't review an MMO that has a fan base consisting of village idiots who love to grief.

  • DFawkes #8 3 years ago

    To be fair, most of the Darkfall community judged this entire site by one review, so even 3 hours play would be too much to give a proportionally fair response.

    I'm sure Kieron will be fair, though if it's a positive review I'll disown him. He'd no longer be my son!

  • Eighthours #9 3 years ago

    Good idea, Tom. The problem you'll have, of course, is that if KG hates it too, the Darkfall community will be here en-masse with their grammatical amazingness accusing him of bias simply because he's written so many articles for EG before. They'll play the "loyalty" card.

    So you can't win, but you're making the best of it and it'll be interesting to see what happens in the re-review.

  • HMAN #10 3 years ago

    So the mob has won
    All I can say is please absolutely crucify it Kieron

    /popcorn

  • Wendelius #11 3 years ago

    It's hard to doubt Kieron's credentials and integrity when it comes to reviewing games, even if not everybody has to agree with his opinions and scores, of course. That's what reviewing is about.

  • EG_IS_BALLS #12 3 years ago

    If the next reviewer doesn't like the game fair enough but at least play the game before reviewing it, here are some reviews or feature reviews of the game:

    [link url=http ://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/news/read/13724/T he-Conversion-of-a-Self-Styled-Carebear.html
    ]http://ww w.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/...[/link]
    http://www.mmorp g.com/blogs/Paragus1
    http://ww w.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/032...
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 10:16

  • RM2KMaster #13 3 years ago

    Looks like you listed every single positive review of Darkfall ever written there.


    Both of them then.

  • ShakaCarnage #14 3 years ago

    I trust Gillen's thoughts 100%. I'd also agree that server logs aren't conclusive. Ed is a legend.

  • EG_IS_BALLS #15 3 years ago

    Looks like you didn't even open them because first is review and second is feature explanation more than a review.

    Have fun.

  • Fatum #16 3 years ago

    How about removing the current score from the review. You can argue all you want about Darkfall and the gameplay and the skill system and the FFA-PvP full loot. You can argue back and forward about the review and its inaccuracies. It is all fine, all good, all part of a healthy (whatever that means) online community.

    Just by Eurogamers scoring policy, the 2/10 can't be. Remove the score, leave the review, revisit it and then score it.

  • Gl3n #17 3 years ago

    Hell hath no fury like a fanboy scorned.

    This whole thing has raised some interesting questions on mmo scoring anyway.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 10:23

  • Wendelius #18 3 years ago

    Why remove the score from the review? Because you don't agree with it? It's that reviewer's opinion. And it doesn't need to be removed because it offends some people.

    Otherwise, they'd also have removed the 10/10 for Bioshock or GTA4 as they offended tons of people. :p
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 10:20

  • PearOfAnguish #19 3 years ago

    While reading the comments of Darkfall fans I like to imagine they all look like that obese guy from the South Park WoW episode.

  • Bremenacht #20 3 years ago

    If Kieron Gillen spends anything less than 2 years of his life playing this game, the fanboys will cry foul if the review doesn't get the score they want.

    It says much for this site that they're prepared to waste time and money to assure people that their reviews are honest.

  • Tyranix #21 3 years ago

    The reviewer did play the game, and found a buggy, sluggish, unresponsive, ugly mess. Did you not read the review?

    As for exploring only "5% content", who cares about that if the game is absolutely atrocious to play? Some people actually, y'know, play games for fun these days.

    This was a very dignified response to pathetic claims from Aventurine, and I hope the second review is just as honest as the first.

  • raff01 #22 3 years ago

    even if Ed Zitron was right (which I think he isn't) and had played 9 hours instead of 2 (yay big difference) This game takes at least 1 month of playtime with around 15 hours a week to really explore a bit.
    I remember playing Warhammer online and for the first 9 hours it seemed a great game, but soon enough the awe faded and boredom started and I started understanding how limited and dull the game was and how quickly it would fade away and be the same repetitive experience.
    With DF, its after 1 month that I started seing how good and profound this game might actually be and how much things I could see if I carry on playing.
    If you are to make a review about a hardcore MMO, give it the time or just dont make it. MMOs are NOT the average game they are meant to be played over months because they have a membership and all, they should be be reviewed over 3 hours like any other game.

  • Wendelius #23 3 years ago

    "This was a very dignified response to pathetic claims from Aventurine, and I hope the second review is just as honest as the first."

    Totally agree with that.

  • #24 3 years ago

    You reap what you sow EG. ITs that simple.

    Keep up the 'good work'

    LMFAO.

  • rudedudejude #25 3 years ago

    "It says much for this site that they're prepared to waste time and money to assure people that their reviews are honest. "

    I would hope so, being like, a review site an all.

  • EG_IS_BALLS #26 3 years ago

    Just pointing out: If game is buggy and horrible to play - why it still has plenty of big and "famous" guilds playing it which have moved from games like WoW, WAR and AoC and they haven't gone back to those games?

    Think about it.

  • AphoticCosmos #27 3 years ago

    This game takes at least 1 month of playtime with around 15 hours a week to really explore a bit.

    So it's going to be a month before all the fanboys get ass-raped by every other reviews site giving it a 3/10, 2 stars, etc.?

    Dang.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 10:28

  • stupidreviewer #28 3 years ago

    Lol how could you crucify this game, it's probably the best recent pvp mmorpg out at the moment. You response looks like forum pvp, that's just lame. You should review a game based on fact, not based on a newbie player that raged after getting ganked!

  • richardiox #29 3 years ago

    Bad luck Kieron!

  • AphoticCosmos #30 3 years ago

    Also, the blog title should have been Darkfallout.

    /me gets coat

  • Slabbathepave #31 3 years ago

    Alot of Darkfall hate here. Lets keep an open mind shall we. I thought the review was bad, it left a funny taste in my mouth after reading it. I dont doubt Darkfall is a bit rubbish but the passion with whch you are all jumping to EG's defence is a little embarissing.

  • ctrl-k #32 3 years ago

    I think that the level of disclosure and discourse exhibited by the Editor is a very good example of the levels of integrity and demcracy at work at Eurogamer, especially when contrasted against the "old media" publications (who are notoriously impervious to feedback and can write pretty much what they want, truthful or not, without risking feedback or dialog) and the syndicated American giants (who make no qualms about being in the pockets of the publishers, and who have repeatedly put this into system as a business proposition).

    In this case, Eurogamer should be considered as an entity (and not a collection of individual writers), and only through measures like the ones taken by the Editor can we judge the (very subjective) weight of the expressed opinions.

  • iokthemonkey #33 3 years ago

    A group of players repeatedly kill you in an online game. That's fair and you should just accept it and be all HARDCORE and STRONG about it.

    Somebody expresses an opinion about your game that you don't like. You whine and moan and piss your panties about it and complain that it's not fair and you're the victim of a smear campaign.

    Not very HARDCORE is it?

  • Hypercube #34 3 years ago

    To be honest, even if KG's review of the game was much better, the comments from the rabid fanboys cnuts would be enough to completely put me off the game.
    I've read other forum threads linking to the EG review where a lot of posters agree with it from experience, but then the fanboys wade in and start the flaming and trolling.
    If any of them had a cogent, balanced argument, that might be OK. But making a load of new accounts calling themselves "EG_IS_BALLS" and "stupidreviewer" really say a lot about the people who play this game.

    Regardless of the second score, I've been put off this game.

  • PearOfAnguish #35 3 years ago

    "Just pointing out: If game is buggy and horrible to play - why it still has plenty of big and "famous" guilds playing it which have moved from games like WoW, WAR and AoC and they haven't gone back to those games?

    Think about it."

    Are you really going with the 'lots of people like it so it must be good' defence?

  • EG_IS_BALLS #36 3 years ago

    No, but I am saying that 2/10 must be a joke.

  • butler` #37 3 years ago

    Irrelevant of the foaming morons that support Darkfall’s cause, how is 9 hours playing time ever going to be justifiable for reviewing an MMO? I thought that was the whole point in having an MMO editor so you can't pull the whole innocent, "oh but it differs from game to game".

    Oh well, looking forward to KG's review!

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #38 3 years ago

    Sorry I don't agree with the review and i don't even play the game, given with what other sources have said, whats been said from both ends about this article in question the best option is a second opinion...

    Is everyone that dissagrees with 'the truth' in what some casees claim it to be just going to be dubbed 'rabid fanboi'?

    I wish the whole net would stop using 'go to' reponces and stop bracketing ppl, this is why the whole community section of the gaming industry is in the toilet - Your either a 'fanboi' or a 'hater', in ppls eyes theres no such thing as a balanced opinion, thus all hell breaks lose and you can't win no matter what you say

  • Daymare #39 3 years ago

    Kudos, Tom, for a nice, swift and mature response to this shitstorm otherwise full of annoying trolls on both sides of the "argument".

  • PearOfAnguish #40 3 years ago

    "No, but I am saying that 2/10 must be a joke."

    Because lots of people like it? No.

  • Dirtbox #41 3 years ago

    I love how the Darkfail forums are packed to the brim with people moaning about every aspect of the game, but when it gets a review that appears to give it a score that their forum thinks it deserves, it's uproar.

    Have to love that double standard.

  • covfan #42 3 years ago

    OMG Driv3r only got 3/10 *rounds up all Driv3r fanboys to complain

  • stupidreviewer #43 3 years ago

    2/10 is opinion of someone who played the game only for a few hours.

    You can't review a mmorpg that has been developed for 8 years in 3 hours.

    Btw, EG defenders as probably as dumb as Ed Zitron, looks like everybody is blind on this website.

  • curtlikesmeat #44 3 years ago

    I have to say, although I'm enjoying the internet drama, nine hours isn't enough to review an MMO. If it's so bad you can't be arsed to play it more, get someone else who will.

    What famous guilds are in DFO?

  • warmonger #45 3 years ago

    It is sad that an exchange between 2 organizations had to go public, and the circle the wagons ensues.

    What sticks out to me is that 2 accounts are provided, and really not used. The output of this review will impact AV negatively. Once they attempt to speak their side with a different reviewer as all games/software/hell life isn't for all people. Especially a first time reviewer wanting to make his name, they normally come in with intent to make an explosive piece. Were fans beating the door down saying where is that DF review? Hell first guy spent 2 - 9 hours (creating multiple characters does not count as playing either), it should be easy to get a second opinion.

    The biggest thing is, Ed lied to your face. Well Ed can go all Bill Clinton on you and say "I count play time as the software is running on my system, even during nap" to defend his definition of "play" time, that is not dealing with common sense.

    You can pull more "play/ui/game" data from watching a few youtube videos on how the controls are that was pulled improperly using the software provided, and if you were to investigate even half of the incorrect statements you would have wasted less time than all this back and forth has wasted of your time.

    I wasted enough time here, Have fun.

  • Gnort #46 3 years ago

    Gillen's going to review it?

    I'd better start building a shelter to take cover from that shitstorm right now.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 11:07

  • Gnort #47 3 years ago

    The big question: is Kieron Gillen a "carebear"? Does he "live hardstyle" enough to handle this review?

    Tune in later to find out.

  • OogaBooga #48 3 years ago

    How can you review a game without playing it?

    So many faults in the review

  • Azdul #49 3 years ago

    I don't mind if KG gives Darkfall 1/10, 0/10 or -5/10. But Ed's review was just: "I really hate this game and can't be bothered to play it" ...






  • Nuyan #50 3 years ago

    Interesting. I don't really care about review scores, but I can see why Adventurine is upset.

    As I see it, without having played the game but having followed it quite a bit over the years, Darkfall Online is unique and build for a niche of MMO gamers. It's a sandbox with landmines, but then unlike EVE Online without a safe zone (high-sec). It's for people willing to tolerate heavy risks and consequences for their actions, the original reviewer certainly doesn't fit into that category. The game is also flawed, lacks polish, has bugs and doesn't look like as 'next-gen' as the other upcoming MMOs. It certainly isn't a perfect game, but it is truly unique, has some aspects that are unequaled and actually does not have a competing MMO except for EVE Online (which has a much different gameplay and is sci-fi).

    So well. Point being. Letting someone like Ed review this game is like letting me review a hardcore fly simulator. I mean, what do you expect? That I'm going to like it? You should let games be reviewed by people who at least understand the type of genre a bit.

    And it seems that's also where EG is making its second mistake. I regard KG as one of the best game-reviewers out there, RPS is one of my daily reads, but because of his writings I kind of know what sort of stuff he likes and I can already predict that Darkfall Online most certainly isn't the game for him.

    Ah well, I'm sure it'll make a good read.

  • iokthemonkey #51 3 years ago

    I'd like to see where in his review Ed says he doesn't like PvP games.

    The point EVERYBODY is missing is that it seems he doesn't like BAD PvP games and lazy developers who use "it's hardcore PvP" as an excuse not to populate their game world.

    A bizarre stance to take I know, but there you go.

  • Wendelius #52 3 years ago

    "And it seems that's also where EG is making its second mistake. I regard KG as one of the best game-reviewers out there, RPS is one of my daily reads, but because of his writings I kind of know what sort of stuff he likes and I can already predict that Darkfall Online most certainly isn't the game for him. "

    You would like one of the DF forum posters to review the game to ensure it's reviewed by someone who might like it? That comment is nonsense. EG doesn't review the game for the DFO fans only but to let its audience in general know what the game is like and whether they might like it (and that's why the words in the review matter as much as the score). It should be reviewed by someone who comes to the game with no preconception and gives it a fair try. And if the game is not good, well it's not good, even if a niche market likes it.

    That being said, the text of the review itself should tell you whether it has some redeeming values or will happen to some. But the notion that you must pick a reviewer who likes it to start with makes no sense.

    Wendelius

  • Gnort #53 3 years ago

    @Wendelius

    I don't entirely agree with you there. While you shouldn't need to find someone who loves the game to review it, it should at least be someone interested in the genre.

    As an example, you wouldn't want someone who wasn't at all interested in motorsport reviewing a technical racing game, would you? Too difficult, not enough explosions, 4/10.

  • iokthemonkey #54 3 years ago

    Except, Gnort, Ed is an MMO player.

    Although DF isn't your "average" MMO, I don't see which genre it would fit more closely.

  • gchris7 #55 3 years ago

    Too late for eurogamer. Why would anyone trust them anymore?
    They got a few days of fame at least though, maybe thats what they tried to achieve with the first review...

  • viper_h #56 3 years ago

    LOL Adventurine are obviously really pissed off that they wasted 8 years of their lives on a festering turd of a game.

    Hope it gets crucified. Maybe then the devs can put the new score on the box.

  • Hypercube #57 3 years ago

    It doesn't seem like EG is alone in disliking this game: mmorpg.com forum thread.

    So it's not like it's a random feud, but I do understand the difficulties in reviewing any MMO in less that 6 months. But, all MMOs are initially based on first impressions, so those still stand.

  • Wendelius #58 3 years ago

    "I don't entirely agree with you there. While you shouldn't need to find someone who loves the game to review it, it should at least be someone interested in the genre. "

    And both Ed and Kieron have dealt with MMO's and other genres and neither are vocal opponents of the genre. What else do you really need? If you want an impartial review, you need someone who hasn't been on the forums for the past 8 years foaming at the mouth at the idea of separating the weak from the strong... How would that tell me whether the game is worth playing?

    Wendelius

  • AphoticCosmos #59 3 years ago

    Too late for eurogamer. Why would anyone trust them anymore?
    They got a few days of fame at least though, maybe thats what they tried to achieve with the first review...

    Eurogamer is one of the most widely read gaming publications out there, notably within Europe [shock horror!]. They don't need loltrolls to boost page views for a few days.

    Also, Eurogamer's reviews are both funnier and more informed than a lot of the shit out there.

  • Azazel #60 3 years ago

    Can't wait to read KG's thoughts on this one :)

  • Gnort #61 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey

    Fair enough, I wasn't actually meaning to criticise the choice of Ed (or Kieron) for the review, I just wanted to point out that you can pick the wrong reviewer for a game if they're predisposed against the genre. I'm not suggesting that they needed to find an aggressive, borderline illiterate MMO player to review Darkfall.

  • Urhi #62 3 years ago

    IMO the problem is scoring an MMORPG on a 1-10 scale is like scoring tuna on a 1-10 scale. Some people like tuna, some people don't - and a few are impartial.

    The text of the article however should give a good impression of what the game was actually like to play, I think the first article is a combination of a guy that "didn't like tuna" and more importantly bad reviewing.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 12:26

  • ratmaggot #63 3 years ago

    Lesson to be learned: MMOs shouldn't be "reviewed" as you can never give it enough time. Call it a First Look, or something and less people will be on your back.

    I play MMOs, but not this one and just reading showed me it wasn't a "review", it was an opinion based on not long enough played. But what is long enough? Months? years?
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 12:28

  • Dogstar060763 #64 3 years ago

    I'm just looking forward to KG's re-review. EG have very cleverly turned this into a bit of an event. Should help drive up page clicks.

  • levitate #65 3 years ago

    I can't see what the fuss is about. The reviewer didn't like the game and he specifically mentioned examples several times of what he disliked. What's wrong with that?

    If the combat system really is that bad I don't blame him at all. If the loot system is a clumsy and stupid like he he said I don't blame him for that either. I have been interested in and playing MMOs for a looong time but I've never considered buying this game, even with this negative review. I'm looking forward to the re-review though, it might bring up more interesting reading.

  • doomahx #66 3 years ago

    So... who is going to take a nice FREE vacation to greece? I wish I could go, always wanted to check some of those islands out.

    "All events on the server are stored in an SQL database. This database is backed up daily. We have routines for saving the logs and we keep them pristine in case of needing them to prosecute legal activities. There is no human interaction with the data unless they need to be manually checked because of special circumstances. Since they are kept in multiple places logs can be cross-checked against each other making this alleged doctoring improbable. These logs contain numerous details on a player’s activity. It’s theoretically possible to doctor the logs but it would be a huge operation.

    We stand by our logs and we’re willing to prove our claims. Eurogamer can send one of their technicians here, we will be happy to cover this expense, and he can examine our procedures and our logs himself and he will be satisfied that our logs are accurate. That, or they can do what they’re doing at the moment: believe their reviewer blindly and keep an unfounded and damaging review of our game public on a few minutes of actual play-time."

  • MikeP #67 3 years ago

    So, does KG get a danger money payment on top of his regular fee for this one then? Are they putting the barbed wire and sandbags out at Rock Paper Shotgun?

  • Bahatouridhs #68 3 years ago

    2 hours of play and most of them to player creation, to review Darkfall Online is insulting all gamers that wait your reviews you fucking bastards but i dont have any problem because i dont wait to read reviews from idiot american boys to play a game instead i try it myself

  • Katsumoto #69 3 years ago

    "idiot american boys"

    Huh?

  • Shiner #70 3 years ago

    I really want Darkfall to succeed as it's great for the wider MMO industry.

    It's equivalent to putting a glass of cider at the bottom of the garden if you want to have a wasp-free picnic. Every other MMO will have a happier player-base because a certain element have migrated to Darkfall.

  • gchris7 #71 3 years ago

    Seriously, this review reminds me of the football manager review made on the US IGN site. The reviewer gave a score of 1/10 or something stating that he didnt like the graphics, sound, etc.
    But this is even funnier.

  • iokthemonkey #72 3 years ago

    "idiot american boys"

    Huh?

    ---

    Maybe it's a Greek thing, like how all non-Amish are "English..."

    Or maybe he thinks the site is gyrogamer.net.

    (For the unitiated, a donner kebab in the US is called a "gyro" and pronounced "euro." Sorry to explain my own gag but I did expect some head/high-flying swish incidents.)

  • Hypercube #73 3 years ago

    "idiot american boys"? Yes, that's why the website is called EuroGamer. Europe is actually a small town near Seattle. Oy.

    I think the developers of Darkfall should have a 7 or 10 day trial. Let's face it, after all the mudslinging that would be the only way to really let everyone try it out and form their own opinion.

    I don't want to spend any money on seeing what it's like, especially with the personalities of most of the community that I've seen, but it would be interesting to actually try this hands on and see who is closest to the (subjective) truth.

  • doomahx #74 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey

    Close, actually it is pronounced more like "yeero" but I guess that depends on which city you are in ;p

  • iokthemonkey #75 3 years ago

    I think the developers of Darkfall should have a 7 or 10 day trial.

    ----

    CRACKING IDEA! And a lot cheaper than shipping some techie out to Greece to "examine their logs" (insert your own Gillian McKeith gag here.)

  • superfurry #76 3 years ago

    Regardless of the score, nine hours is nowhere near enough playtime to base the review on a new MMORPG on.

  • Krelle #77 3 years ago

    The 2/10 was quite generous imho.

  • iokthemonkey #78 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey

    Close, actually it is pronounced more like "yeero" but I guess that depends on which city you are in ;p

    ---

    Rural Georgia. So their pronounciation is closer to "Goddamned Ay-rab shit." :)

    (I kid, I kid. I love Georgia.)

  • Yossarian #79 3 years ago

    I missed the biggest trolling opportunity of the season last night.

    I am going to have to hand in my EG Trolls badge.

  • Widge #80 3 years ago

    i don't want a canser carebare chainsaw noob reviewing holy mmo

  • Stardusted #81 3 years ago

    Ed's mistake isnt the score, and it isn't expressing his oppinion. He could have given 1/10 and say it is the worst game in history, it is his right, just like anyone else's too.

    Ed describes certain aspects of the game that aren't the way he describes it. I mean ARE NOT. You can't really argue about that, it's not a matter of personal oppinion. It's just facts. Without being a subscriber, it was fairly easy to find out myself about several of them.

    I mean, when the reviewer makes a big deal out of what seems like absence of hotkeys and how much time it takes to switch weapons, when not only you can use hotkeys, but you have to just like in many other game in order to play right, what more can be said about that? You can't blame fans or non-fans. It's a fact. And it's not the only one.

    All in all, it's just a game review, but ed, no matter who he is how many reviews he has done, or if he won every journalism related award for ten years in a row, has his FACTS wrong. Not his oppinion. Just facts. Getting them straight might change his oppinion or not, but I wouldnt care about that, I tend to read reviews and judge by the facts presented.

    So please. Present them the way they are next time Ed.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 12:51

  • doomahx #82 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey

    That explains it, If I say gyro with a southern twang it sounds like euro haha.


    Anyhow. I would really like to see eurogamer take this opportunity to check out the log files. If they are confident in the credibility of their reviewer then they have nothing to lose.

  • Sliver441 #83 3 years ago

    "The reviewer in question, Ed Zitron, disputes the server logs that Aventurine presents as fact. According to the logs they supplied, Ed played the game for just over three hours. Ed says the logs miss out two crucial days and understate others, which suggests they are incomplete, and he insists he played the game for at least nine hours. "

    Everyone who read this article and played Darkfall know that this guy barely played it. we dont even need the logs , the shitty articly itself is a testimony to the lack of experience the write had.

    3/4 of his critics is about how he cant understand the basic commands,

    I will repeat it here , Darkfall is one of the best game i have played in the last 10 years. i played all those fancy new mmorpgs , and beleive me , no games ever gave me the thrilling experience that darkfall offers me.

    yes , theres alot of problems with darkfall , but everything this guy written in his article is just plainly false and wrong.

    this article is a shame to any serious mmo gamer ,and all of you defending him here are just wrong too , because you dont know what you are talking about clearly.

    my mom always told me to shut up when i wasnt informed enough to comment on something , i suggest you to do the same.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 12:58

  • Boen #84 3 years ago

    The review was absolutely inaccurate.


    THIS IS THE BEST GAME OUT.

    PERIOD.

    I have played every mainstream MMO out there (for more than a couple hours) and DARKFALL ONLINE takes the cake as the BEST ONE.

    Ive conquered UO, destroyed WoW, laughed at AoC, and played pretty much every other mainstream MMO, but this is no joke.

    Its the best fantasy MMO out there, period. Anyone who writes a review like that obviously didnt take the time to learn it, or doesnt understand the concept the game was built upon.




  • iokthemonkey #85 3 years ago

    Ive conquered UO, destroyed WoW, laughed at AoC, and played pretty much every other mainstream MMO, but this is no joke.

    ---

    YOU ARE MIGHTY!

    Did you say all that whilst wearing a horned helmet and loincloth?

  • Slabbathepave #86 3 years ago

    This whole episode, if anything, has shown me that aside from the recent influx of Darkfall sponsored detractors their are some vindictive snot nosed little cunts at EG. At times some of this nonsense sounded like it had been copied and pasted from Destructoid or Neogaf.

  • Aviyur #87 3 years ago

    Mate(aimed at Tom Bramwell) when even experienced MMO gamers and reviewers who don't like darkfall(such as myself) turn up and say "Well this review is as flawed as the game is."
    You know there's something wrong.

    Also you do realize that Ed is probably one of, if not, the most pro-Blizzard anti-everything-else reviewer in the industry. Yes Darkfall is pretty bad.

    But nowhere near as bad as zitron made it out to be, and some of the things he says are complete tripe. The interaction with characters for instance doesn't require you to flip through several screens or whatever you walk up to an NPC and press "F" or a player and press "G."

    I know this is hard to do for someone who considers Arathi Basin to be the best ever human invention throughout history - narrowly beating out the bleating of how great wintergrasp is mind you - But, I think it's about time someone simply reviews Ed.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 13:03

  • Lemming81 #88 3 years ago

    Guys, this is a game we are talking about here. Not a University Degree, or an 8-book fantasy series. A game. MMORPG, FPS it doesn't matter. 9 hours is PLENTY of time to make a judgement on ANY game. If a game takes longer than that to get to what makes it 'good' or even 'mediocre' then that game has FAILED.

    I'ev played UO, SWG, WAR, CoH, WoW...I knew in the first HOUR whether I was enjoying myself or not. 9 Hours in that opinion may have been tempered SLIGHTLY.

    9 Hours is a day's work. It's practically a lie-in. It's a fucking long-haul flight. It's enough time to form an opnion on a game.

  • Boen #89 3 years ago

    "YOU ARE MIGHTY!

    Did you say all that whilst wearing a horned helmet and loincloth?"

    ------------

    Nah, I say this as my model hot girlfriend cooks me pancakes, actually.

    Your response was pointless.



    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 13:17

  • Whitewalker #90 3 years ago

    How on earth can you people write a review on an MMO after only playing it for 9 hours!!! Eurogamer you have displayed total incompetence in this joke of a review. Remove it or lose all credibility in the mmo community.

    If you look at the reviewers pics he hasn't even binded his weapons in the hotbar!!!! How on earth did he expect to fight anything???
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 13:23

  • seasidebaz #91 3 years ago

    For some reason I feel the need to press "F" on my work keyboard whenever I need to interact with something. It's bugging me, I don't know why.



    Oh, I've worked it out. It's cos I've been told that now about 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times since last night. We get the picture. Press "F". Or not, as the case may be. It makes my emails look stupid, like I'm F swearing like an F trooper F.

  • seasidebaz #92 3 years ago

    Nah, I say this as my model hot girlfriend cooks me pancakes, actually.

    Take her off the oven, then. Plastic melts you know.

  • HMAN #93 3 years ago

    Is it said that I watched the main comments thread instead of TV last night?
    Has anyone said worse than Halo yet? If not I shall throw it in there

  • seasidebaz #94 3 years ago

    Better than Mario Party Advance, though.

  • Euroflamer #95 3 years ago

    Ed Zitron, your review was pathetically inept. It had more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Fair dinkum, i reckon a Downs sufferer could of ACTUALLY, played the game better than you did and written a more informative review. The amount of pure drivel you tried to pass as facts which were blatantly wrong if not downright lies was astonishing. You should be ashamed of yourself for such an unprofessional job.

    As for the sheep that haven't played the game, yet treat Ed's review (written after a laughable amount of playtime) as gospel. You sound like mindless zombies. Unless you play a game properly yourself then you have zero knowledge and will be led up the garden path by garbage reviews. I can't for the life of me understand how or why gamers put such stock in game reviewers. They have about as much credence as film critics, full of subjective opinions and biases. They are like anuses, everone has one, but only the owner enjoy the smell of of their own produce.

  • yrk #96 3 years ago

    @Lemming81

    I would agree with you for any other game than MMO. Most non-MMO games have like 50 hours of single-player campain + a multiplayer mode. That can be reviewed in 9 or even less hours.

    Given the fact that most people spend more time at MMO than on a book series (or even at university degree sometimes) you can't possibly expect to be able to review it in the one-day playtime. It will be only first impressions.

    I love that some people here are up to serious discussion about the review and the subsequent exchange of "official statements" by DFO dev and EG editor. Calling someone a fanboy (no matter Df or EG one) doesn't add to discussion.

    As many people already pointed out, the review is flawed by factual errors, which - unlike reviewer's personal opinions - cannot be discussed. If you see that many untruths written about a game you play, you begin to suspects, even subjective opinion may be flawed. But worse thing is, if you don't play the game yet, this review is misleading not only in content, but in it's final score. "As entertaining as flu"? C'mon!

  • Aviyur #97 3 years ago

    Guys, this is a game we are talking about here. Not a University Degree, or an 8-book fantasy series. A game. MMORPG, FPS it doesn't matter. 9 hours is PLENTY of time to make a judgement on ANY game. If a game takes longer than that to get to what makes it 'good' or even 'mediocre' then that game has FAILED.

    I'ev played UO, SWG, WAR, CoH, WoW...I knew in the first HOUR whether I was enjoying myself or not. 9 Hours in that opinion may have been tempered SLIGHTLY.

    9 Hours is a day's work. It's practically a lie-in. It's a fucking long-haul flight. It's enough time to form an opnion on a game.

    Of course 9 hours is plenty of time to make an initial judgment of the game.

    But it would be nice if ed would actually PLAY the game for 9 hours before reviewing it. Im no fan of Darkfall myself. I played it for a month and it was mediocre. But ed's review makes a mockery of reviewing and in the future people will be highly doubtful of what reviews they read on X site. Look at MMORPG.com, it used to be a very useful site. It only took 1 person and 1 stupid article to change that. And it's never recovered.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 13:28

  • Sliver441 #98 3 years ago

    @lemming81

    a game is a work of art.

    a mmo that took 8 years to develop cant be reviewed under at least 50 hours.

    back in the days when i would read gaming magazine , they actually had to finish the game before reviewing it.

    if you seriously think that someone can come up with an unbiased review with less than 10 hours of gaming ,you are simply retarded. period.

  • Waldo #99 3 years ago

    A re-review? I would have told them to GTFO.

  • HMAN #100 3 years ago

    Lol Euroflamer. It gets better. Thats up there with EG_BALLS or whatever he was called.
    @Seasidebaz also better than Biker Mice from Mars apparently. I think they should put that on the box.

  • nin2010 #101 3 years ago

    Of course he's not going to tell you that he barely played the game at all before posting a review. Was he sweeping floors in the PC Zone office or what because I am severly dissappointed if they had someone like him working as a reviewer. The issue isn't the fact that it was a bad review, it's the fact that anyone who actually played the game can tell he didn't understand any aspect of the game or have any knowledge about it before he wrote that review.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 13:32

  • Euroflamer #102 3 years ago

    Lol, it's like reading the first few pages of a novel then writing an in depth book review on it.

  • GrayGhost79 #103 3 years ago

    The problem we over at the DFO forums have is that the review itself validates what Tasos has claimed the play logs have said. He got the majority of the controls wrong, theres a tutorial that pops up each time you log in that even tells you the default controls so it's amazing that he managed to get that wrong. A tip for your next reviewer, you will have a better go at trying to interact with NPC's if you press "F" the RMB just takes you to the GUI lol. Also, if you wish to equip a weapon do what the majority does and put it on your hotbar. It's very simple lol, amazes me of the simple things you missed that the majority managed to pick up in less than a minute after they entered the game.

    If you don't like the game, thats fine your intitled to your opinion. DFO is a niche game for a niche market and it is far from perfect, but if your going to bash it at the very least try and be accurate. Otherwise your left with the majority of us believing Tasos weather he is right or wrong simply because the review itself was so inaccurate there's no way for us to believe the reviewer played it.
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 13:40

  • idragon #104 3 years ago

    While Eurogamer managers, and main editors clearly know that a mmorpg to clearly be reviewed, it should take at least a few days, maybe 12 to 24 hours to play, to get a glimpse of a review.

    That is available for any mmorpg. If you do a first impression or a preview i guess 9 to 12 hours max should be enough, but for a review to spend 2 hours - 4 hours, it like taking first steps into the game, and finding your way around, or some games still playing tutorial.

    MMORPG are time consuming monsters due to subscription model, that in the first hours you basically get to learn some part of the game, explore 5-10% of the content, and features it has to offer, so it hard and time consuming TO ACTUALLY WRITE A REVIEW for mmorpg game, since you should play that game for a week to actually be fair.

    That's my opinion anyway

    P.S. Not defending Dark Fall, i think it a mmorpg with great concepts, executed very poorly, by some monkies they call them self developers. AND Ed is also a very poor writer, even if he has articles all over the major gaming sites, he clearly does this for cashy, since he spends only a few hours of gameplay for each articles.

  • aldo_14 #105 3 years ago

    if you seriously think that someone can come up with an unbiased review with less than 10 hours of gaming ,you are simply retarded. period.

    I'm always amused by people who use 'retarded' as an insult, whilst being unable to use basic punctuation or grammar.

    Are you really suggesting that a game - any game - which is a dollop of tripe for the first ten hours can somehow become great thereafter? Who the hell would want to play an awful ten hours when there are many peer games which are, shockingly, good from close to the start? Or have we forgotten that games are supposed to be about entertainment, not grinding 'to the good bit'?

    Me, if I'm going to buy a game I'd rather just pay the money, not time as well.

  • Orange #106 3 years ago

    Can you get Kieron to re-review Mount and Blade afterwards?

    Dan Whitehead's review was a shocker.

  • remonk #107 3 years ago

    "Except, Gnort, Ed is an MMO player.

    Although DF isn't your "average" MMO, I don't see which genre it would fit more closely. "

    I'm sorry, but when he's saying that EQ has better graphics than DF, it just makes it clear that either...

    ... he hasn't touched DF at all.

    ... he never played EQ.

    ... he's one of the trolls on mmorpg.com forums.

    ... he half-assed played DF, then took the words of the trolls on the mmorpg.com forums and copy pasted them.

    I stopped playing DF because I disagreed with some of the devs choices, but it was only because they made the game a bit easier than they should have done for a pvp/gvg game. The things that he says though, that it takes you 10 seconds to change weapons, that you can't run and arrange your inventory, etc etc (too many examples actualy), are complete and utter lies.

  • PearOfAnguish #108 3 years ago

    "a mmo that took 8 years to develop cant be reviewed under at least 50 hours."

    So you have to take the development time into account when reviewing?

    Man, Duke Nukem Forever is going to be a bitch to review.

  • Widge #109 3 years ago

    worse than Halo 2 Vista

  • Waldo #110 3 years ago

    Careful EG, or DF fans will start boycotting your advertisers.

  • Feanor #111 3 years ago

    Can't wait for Darkfall: A Defense.

  • iokthemonkey #112 3 years ago

    Your response was pointless.

    ----

    As was your original post, but it didn't stop you from sharing, did it?

  • BigJonno #113 3 years ago

    I reckon you need a little more than 9 hours to review an MMO. If it's so awful that you can't bring yourself to play it for a few days, then it needs to be clearly stated in the review.

    I can see one potential problem here, though I'm making a few assumptions. I'm guessing that Ed is being paid a fixed fee to write the review. This means that the more time he spends playing the game, the less money he gets per hour. It's pretty obvious that he hates the game and he found playing it a chore. Not much incentive to keep playing, really, especially when he could be spending that time doing other work. A salaried staff writer wouldn't neccessarily run into the same problem, providing that his editor understood that he'd need more time to play the game than your average "if it gets into double figures, it's pretty epic" shooter.

  • WoT #114 3 years ago

    This is one of the best games devolped in the last 15 years period. DF has done what UO and Asherons Call has done, bringing a new unique gaming experience into the world... Yes the game is still 2½ month old and continues to improve... but keep in mind this game is a niche game and should be treated like one... compared to any other MMO currently bosting about having pvp.. this is the only game that has a truly risk vs reward focused enviroement.


    congrats Eurogamer for making the worst rewview ever you should be ashamed of yourself.

  • PearOfAnguish #115 3 years ago

    "This is one of the best games devolped in the last 15 years period."

    Yeah sure it is, sparky. Must be great in that fantasy world you inhabit.

  • Olemak #116 3 years ago

    Kieron sounds like the perfect choice to re-review this game. He just might give it another 2/10 or thereabouts, but at least I feel confident that he'll actually play the game and try to figure it out before marking it. He's got the integity that Ed seems to be lacking. I will respect whatever grade Kieron gives this game, even if it is a 1/10. Good choice, Tom.

  • Venger_09 #117 3 years ago

    It appears that Ed Zitron lies to his boss and falsifies information in his reviews of games. Further, it appears that his boss will stand behind him knowing that he has done this. This brings every review he has ever submitted under suspicion: Did he actually do what he said he did?

    That there are factual errors in his review is beyond dispute. If he had actually spent the time in the game that he stated then he would not have been incorrect about the interactions with NPCs, the requirement of weapon skill to ‘hit’ a target, the ‘inability’ to turn off the UI, or the ‘lack’ of hit detection. It appears that his need to have pretty textures overrode his ability to review the game objectively.

    He lost credibility because he did not do his job, and Eurogamer loses credibility because it backed him up when the editors KNOW he did not do his job. The rabid EG fanboys who post here are obviously not objective. It appears that, as long as there is a pretty graphic to keep them mesmerized they will play whatever games Ed says they should. They are not the target audience for this game in the first place. Knowledge of this game spread through word-of-mouth, and for a game that has 0 advertising it has quite a large following.

    The harm done to Aventurine is probably not going to matter in the long run, it is apparent from EG fan postings that they don’t care about objectivity or honesty, but it should not go unanswered, so I will propose the following:

    All of the people who find it abhorrent that a reviewer would lie about his review, and even worse that his employers would back up his lies to save face should spend some time clicking on all the adds at EG, going to the advertiser’s websites and letting them know that you can’t support buying products from people who publish specious information. If you click each add a few hundred times, as fast as you can, it might make a point to EG about how dishonesty can affect a company’s bottom line… The rapid clicking will cause fraud alerts which in turn will cause the ads to be disabled...
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 14:53

  • mkreku #118 3 years ago

    It is pointless to let someone else review it. There's a clear "I scratch your back if you scratch mine" mentality among game journalists too, so even if the game is worth 6-7, it will still never leave the 2-4 realm. If it did, they'd basically admit that Ed never played the game properly, and they can't do that.

    Personally, I believe Aventurine's logs and the people who have pointed out all the glaring errors in the review. I believe them because I did a similar thing that Ed did myself once..

  • iokthemonkey #119 3 years ago

    All of the people who find it abhorrent that a reviewer would lie about his review, and even worse that his employers would back up his lies to save face should spend some time clicking on all the adds at EG, going to the advertiser’s websites and letting them know that you can’t support buying products from people who publish specious information. If you click each add a few hundred times, as fast as you can, it might make a point to EG about how dishonesty can affect a company’s bottom line…

    -----

    El
    Oh
    El

  • Sliver441 #120 3 years ago

    @aldo_14

    and it makes me laugh when peoples with no real arguments try to lecture me on my grammar.

    my main language isnt english , answer me back in french if you are that good.

    your comment is simply sided. i personally review games , and when i do it , i stay with a neutral mind of states. even if i dont like a game , its not professional to rush a review because you simply arent up to the task. this is a pathetic behavior for a journalist , and he should be ashamed.

    @pearofanguish

    i was merely stating the time it took to develop the game to illustrate how pathetic this review was , based on the time the writer passed ingame.

    now if we only take the fact that he passed less than 9 hour on the game ( probably less than this , considering all the bullshit i read in this article ) , his review cant be taken seriously.

  • nikobe #121 3 years ago

    If I played an awful painful game for 3 hours and someone told me it got good after 6 hours I still wouldn't bother, I know MMO's have benefits that only become apparent after a long time but if the basics are so flawed its not likely.

  • PearOfAnguish #122 3 years ago

    "i was merely stating the time it took to develop the game to illustrate how pathetic this review was , based on the time the writer passed ingame. "

    What does it matter, though. It's totally irrelevant. If anything that makes the game look even worse. 8 years and they came up this shit? What a waste.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 14:32

  • seasidebaz #123 3 years ago

    Venger_09 wrote:
    spend some time clicking on all the adds at EG. click each add a few hundred times, as fast as you can

    Please do this.

  • Sliver441 #124 3 years ago

    @pearofanguish

    sad troll. no need to answer you again , now i know its useless.

  • rashy #125 3 years ago

    Also I like the way AV have offered for one of Eurogamers technicians to go and see the logs and their procedures at AV's expense... since the editor basically said the logs are wrong based on a non staff reviewers ascertian of the fact lmao.
    (source: [link url=http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=185299 )
    ]http://fo rums.darkfallonline.com/showthr...[/link]

    Eurogamer = no credibility. I urge all to find better sites than this if only for the sake of our hobby. Review inaccuaracies, bias and no due dililgence make me think that the eurogamer itself is flawed.
    gamespot.com (has had and addressed this issue) and mmorpg.com are two sites I would suggest using in preference to this site.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 14:35

  • seasidebaz #126 3 years ago

    I urge all to find better sites than this if only for the sake of our hobby.

    I hear GameFAQs are in need of some new zealots.

  • PearOfAnguish #127 3 years ago

    sad troll. no need to answer you again , now i know its useless.

    In other words, I'm right and you can't think of a response.

  • iokthemonkey #128 3 years ago

    sad troll. no need to answer you again , now i know its useless.

    ---

    Translation: "You made me cry."

  • polaris70 #129 3 years ago

    I think there is space out there for a full-on fantasy, twitch based PvP mmo. That's why I'll be trying Mortal Online when it comes out as I think the graphics, lore and ideas in that game look fantastic. But kudos to Darkfall for also trying it, whether it works or not at least it isn't another WoW clone.

  • raff01 #130 3 years ago

    here is a response from Aventurine :

    [link url=http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=185299
    ]http://fo rums.darkfallonline.com/showthr...[/link]

    I think not only is Ed Zitron a fucking morron but he's also a fucking lier, doesn't even have the balls to stand for his own acts.
    The man played 2 hours, won't admit it, and retaliates he's in fact played 9 hours, which is stupid as it is just as worthless for a MMO...

  • Hypercube #131 3 years ago

    gamespot.com (has had and addressed this issue) and mmorpg.com are two sites I would suggest using in preference to this site.

    Interesting, as the thread on mmorpg.com that references the EG review is mainly filled with posts agreeing with the 2/10.

    "I think this review pretty much covers it, pretty good review and agree with the score at the end."

    "Yep bang on to my experiences. To the fanbois yes I ve played it and yes I was in a clan."

    "Good find. This review is also what I've thought all along about the game and have been holding back trying it. So far I'm happy with that descision. I willl not give Adventurine/Razorwax any money until things vastly improve, from the graphics to combat to customer service etc.

    It'll be funny to see the rose colored glass DF community read this review and post."

    "wow that review is priceless, and basicaly says most of the stuff, thats been said on and off in this forum for a while now. The fanbois just took a broadside volley on that one..."

    "Good read, finally a review giving this POS an honest rating, 2/10."

    So to all you DF fans, go make some nasty posts on that thread, impuning the integrity of the posters.

  • Turrican #132 3 years ago

    In the name of balance does that mean Ed Zitron will be re-reviewing Kieran's Deus Ex Invisible War score? ;p

    Just like to point out that while the Darkfall Defence Force seem to be a mix of illiterate trolls and reasoned debaters, the reactions of the regular Eurogamer community is what makes this funny.

    For the record, Eurogamer's reviews are some of the best out there, the site is great and the community is by and large pleasant, cynical and sarcastic. To suggest this community will blanket-defend a bad review is the only insult I've read thats worth responding to.

    @Eurogamer, please can you provide a countdown ticker on the homepage for Kieran's review going up? That way we can get the popcorn in.

  • mkreku #133 3 years ago

    I hope Eurogamer sends someone (on their expense!) to check those logs. I mean, by siding with Ed in this matter, they are accusing Aventurine of forging the logs and/or lying outright about them. Send an impartial network technician to review their systems and their logging procedures and let HIM tell you whether Aventurine is lying or not. Don't just trust the word of ONE GUY who's also in the position of being caught in his own lie (if that is the case).

  • Sliver441 #134 3 years ago

    @iokmonkey and pearofanguish ( EG Trolls )

    No , i said it was useless because people like you usually dont even care about the actual subject.

    did you ever played darkfall ? what is your gaming experience backround ?

    You claim that darkfall is a shitty game , im still waiting for you to tell me some valid points about how its shitty.

    Darkfall is a game made by an indy company , thats why it took that long to make. it also aims a community of gamers that evoluted back in the years 2k , therefore the game keeps the same mentality than those game had back in the days , but now the technology evoluted alot.

    yes, currently the game is kinda a paid beta. theres tons of missing features and glitches , but each passing weeks we see new patches to make the game better an balanced.

    3/4 of what the writer said is simply wrong. i wont review everything , but really , anyone who played darkfall know this guy didnt.

    Darkfall is one of the best overall gaming experience i had in the last 10 years , despite the harsh release and all the bugs.

    really , you trolls will have a hard time explaining anything to me , because you have no arguments.

    Here's a fact ; Ed barely played the game. you endorse this kind of behavior ?
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 14:48

  • Sliver441 #135 3 years ago

    @ lord with the amounts of arguments you have , im actually suprised you are able to think by yourself.

  • seasidebaz #136 3 years ago

    INSERT INTO log VALUES (playername, x, y)

    ... is what I expect their algorithm is.

  • spimmy #137 3 years ago

    /popcorn so so meny darkfall neckbeards

  • PearOfAnguish #138 3 years ago

    what is your gaming experience backround ?

    I have a degree in Gameology from Cambridge University.

    it also aims a community of gamers that evoluted back in the years 2k

    Going by the examples of the Darkfall community posting here, you chaps have been devolving.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:01

  • Sliver441 #139 3 years ago

    and can you guys finally come with arguments or you are really just trolling ? im still waiting. *_-

    it leads me to think that you dont really care or understand the whole subject.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:03

  • iokthemonkey #140 3 years ago

    You claim that darkfall is a shitty game , im still waiting for you to tell me some valid points about how its shitty.

    ----

    I'll hold my hand up and admit, I haven't played it. Never will, either.

    Why?

    Because it looks like shit.

    A simple glance at the game's feature list and supposed "selling points" for one hardly makes it sound good. But I can accept others don't share my tastes and are looking for a different experience. However, having seen the game in motion and viewing the screens, I don't NEED to play it to make my mind up.

    If it looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit, chances are it's a piece of shit.

    What I'm pointing out here is that Ed's review is his OPINION of the game and he's entitled to it. Just because the devs don't like what he's said, that doesn't give them the right to start bandying accusations and making demands of Eurogamer. I work in the games industry and have been on the end of a savage review or two. Did I complain to the magazines and demand they retract it? No, I LEARNED from their comments where I could and accepted that, yeah, maybe that particular feature didn't work as well as it could have or that not everybody shares my views when it comes to "good" game design.

    As I pointed out elsewhere, if there are options to make the game more "fun" why are they not set as the default. If a developer isn't doing their utmost to promote their game's good points, it's not the fault of the player/reviewer when they don't find them.

    So hey, if you're happy playing it, more power to you. But please, don't try to tell those of us who aren't interested in your little gank and wank fest that this is some Second Coming or that you're in some way "better" gamers because you happen to like bullying people online.

  • eqvilim #141 3 years ago

    this cracks me up. it is great to see a bunch of erugogamer fanboy nutcases supporting the review of someone who is regularly questioned on his reviews, on a game that they have NEVER played.

    Basically Ed's review was liking seeing 15 minutes of a movie than trashing it. Anyone see lucky number sleven? If I had stayed for half of that movie and left, i'd have said it was shit too. Then the climax come, things start to become clear and the movie becomes brilliant.

    It takes time to form a mature and responsible review, no matter what it is you're reviewing. This Ed character is just a WoW obsessed pita. BTW Eighthours, "amazingness" is not a word. If you're going to ridicule someone else's grammar, please learn the english language. Ty. :)

    Edit: 1st. Yes I highly doubt the review will receive much better. It will show no solidarity among the eruogamer reviewers and even more importantly force the site AND this Ed character to lose a lot of credibility. Why would a site based on reviewing games admit they can't properly review games?

    2ndly None of the DFO community is upset because Ed gave his opinion. People on the DFO forums themselves give their opinions on how they don't/do like the game. It's that his FACTS are wrong. If your opinions are absed off of incorrect information, your opinions ARE WRONG. Duh.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:20

  • Fatum #142 3 years ago

    Statement by Aventurine to the Editor.

    Our response to this:

    Our server logs are at Eurogamer's disposal as we said. This isn't a one man operation. There are 40 professional developers here and 900 people at Audio Visual and to insinuate that a conspiracy to fabricate our logs is possible, while convenient for Eurogamer and for the reviewer, is very insulting to our entire operation.

    All events on the server are stored in an SQL database. This database is backed up daily. We have routines for saving the logs and we keep them pristine in case of needing them to prosecute illegal activities. There is no human interaction with the data unless they need to be manually checked because of special circumstances. Since they are kept in multiple places logs can be cross-checked against each other making this alleged doctoring improbable. These logs contain numerous details on a player’s activity. It’s theoretically possible to doctor the logs but it would be a huge operation.

    We stand by our logs and we’re willing to prove our claims. Eurogamer can send one of their technicians here, we will be happy to cover this expense, and he can examine our procedures and our logs himself and he will be satisfied that our logs are accurate. That, or they can do what they’re doing at the moment: believe their reviewer blindly and keep an unfounded and damaging review of our game public on a few minutes of actual play-time.

    While Eurogamer questions our credibility, we will not go so far as to insinuate that Eurogamer's second attempt at a Darkfall review will only serve to confirm the first one. We will also not insinuate that the situation created by the first review will not affect the second reviewer. We appreciate the gesture; however it seems bizarre to us that Eurogamer would pay someone to try to prove them wrong. This is about as strange as us paying someone to write a review of Darkfall for them.

    We also don’t believe that the 9 hours of MMORPG playtime Eurogamer is satisfied with, is anywhere near enough to review a MMORPG game of this size. It’s not even enough to get first impressions and these say very little about the game experience. Most gaming sites understand this and they’re using actual Darkfall players logging 100s of hours before they review our game. We believe that this is the only way to go in writing a complete review of an MMORPG like Darkfall.

    In closing we also believe that it's important to understand what Eurogamer is saying about our game with the 2/10 score and I quote from their generic scoring policy [link url=http://ww w.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy.php
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy....[/link]

  • Hypercube #143 3 years ago

    There's lots of people on lots of forums also saying they've played Darkfall and they hated it. When are you fanbois going to mobilise all over their asses?

    When someone posts "Wholeheartedly agree with the review. Really spot on.

    It doesn't surprise me people still defend the game...it's typical when ANY mmo launches there seems to be a die-hard fan base willing to overlook any flaw, turn it on it's side and proclaim it a virtue. Look how many people defended AOC 2 months post-launch when most of its population left....look at those STILL defending the SWG NGE, , etc."

    on another site, are you going to tell me they're a liar, say they didn't play it long enough to start really liking it etc.?

    If, after nine hours, I'm hating a game, I'm not going to keep slogging at it in case some nugget of fun is buried in the end game. This is a review for peope who may want to play the game. If the experience is crappy for the first nine hours, I wouldn't want to play it.

  • iokthemonkey #144 3 years ago

    I only need to be kicked once in the balls to know I don't like it.

  • PearOfAnguish #145 3 years ago

    If you're going to ridicule someone else's grammar, please learn the english language. Ty. :)

    Oh, sweet irony.

    'Erugogamer' is not a word.
    First word of your post is missing a capital letter.
    Lucky Number Sleven not 'lucky number sleven'.
    English not 'english'.

    Remember, eqvilim, if you're going to ridicule someone else's grammar please learn the English language.

    THANK YOU.

    :) :) :)

  • eqvilim #146 3 years ago

    wow it's amazing the level of semantics we're boiling down to. I didn't ridicule anyone's grammar PearOfAnguish, just pointed out if you're going to attack someone you should not live in a glass house. I didn't attack anyone. But thank you for pointing out all my typos. Yes, I didn't capatalize a letter. You're so smart.

  • seasidebaz #147 3 years ago

    I thought it was Slevin? (not seen the film)

    Also, eqvilim repeatedbly used lowercase "i" when referring to themself.

  • Hypercube #148 3 years ago

    We also don’t believe that the 9 hours of MMORPG playtime Eurogamer is satisfied with, is anywhere near enough to review a MMORPG game of this size. It’s not even enough to get first impressions and these say very little about the game experience.

    I disagree 100%. If I'm hating a game after 9 hours, I'd have to be a complete screaming mentalist to think "Maybe, after another 9 hours of unenjoyable shit, it might get better".

    How long do you think people play games for before actually deciding there are better things to do? Nine hours sounds about right.

  • eqvilim #149 3 years ago

    lol. sorry that i don't feel like pressing the shift button. and the fact that out of my entire post, your response was that i don't capitalize my i's and i made one word out of eurogmer (lol) shows how little thought collectively goes on between you eurogamer fanbois.

    also, if you don't like a game after 9 hours it is completely your business to hate it and never want to play it again. YOU ARE NOT A GAME REVIEWER. Your job is not to get the FULL STORY on games and post ACCURATE and UNBIASED reviews on them. so I would expect nothing more from you. However, if your job is to review games and you're doing a pisspoor job, you shouldn't be defended because you didn't like it. It's not about if you like the game or not, it's about the technical aspects of the game and how they measure up, which is why this website will never reach any sort of decent or respectable level of even the lowest grade game review sites.
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 15:27

  • PearOfAnguish #150 3 years ago

    Only eqvilim is allowed to criticise grammar. Everyone else who does it is a Erugamegere fanbois.

    "which is why this website will never reach any sort of decent or respectable level of even the lowest grade game review sites."

    Hate to break this to you, love, but EG is already one of the biggest gaming sites in the world. Sorry.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:28

  • Aviyur #151 3 years ago

    I played The Chronicles of Spellborn for 9hours the other day.

    Here's my review:

    After spending 8hours and 50minutes at the character creation screen deleting my character and making a new one every 10 seconds because the game is stupid and I couldn't find how to change my hair color, I finally got into game. I don't know what race I picked but I kept getting attacked by these stupid sparks. The game is broken and I couldn't hit them, I had to run into them to kill them. Then I got to a door.

    Now this is really stupid. To open the door I had to right click on screen to come out of mouse view and into interface view, then press R to go into mouse view again then R again to go into interface view then I had to RIGHT CLICK yes, RIGHT CLICK. To open the door. I tried pressing F but it didn't work, I was then attacked by more sparkles THAT I COULDNT TARGET BECAUSE THE GAME IS BROKE.

    I was a bit dissapointed by the lack of a tutorial. And more so by the game world. It was a boat. So you could see to the other end. It means the game is small.

    - Ed.

  • eqvilim #152 3 years ago

    People in glass hosues should not throw stones was my point. I could care less about his grammar or his spelling. If I did care, I'd go about being the spellcheck for every eurogamer pita that posts OMG ED is GOD. Unfortunately after me saying this 3 seperate times you still didn't get the point eh? Nice job Pear of Anguish.

    It's funny you praise Eurgamer to be one of the top sites in the world. Yet a simple search for game reviews, "Gamer" or anything else you'd think would find one of the best review sites in the world, it's not even in the top 20. Nice site we've got here.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:30

  • Llewen #153 3 years ago

    Aventurine has offered to fly a technical representative of EG, at Aventurine's expense, to confirm that the logs have not been doctored. Ed lied. Whether it was intentional or not, I don't know, but he didn't play anywhere near the nine hours that he claims he did, and has been pointed out, even nine hours is not near enough time dedicated to review a game of the size and scope of Darkfall Online. The only game comparable to Darkfall Online that I know of is EVE, and you would have to be an idiot to think you could write a proper review of EVE based on nine hours of playing time, never mind under three hours.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:30

  • PearOfAnguish #154 3 years ago

    People in glass hosues should not throw stones was my point. I could care less about his grammar or his spelling. If I did care, I'd go about being the spellcheck for every eurogamer pita that posts OMG ED is GOD. Unfortunately after me saying this 3 seperate times you still didn't get the point eh? Nice job Pear of Anguish.

    Alas, I fear it is you who is not getting 'it'. You say that people in glass houses should not throw stones, yet you are guilty of the same thing.

    Do try to keep up.

  • iokthemonkey #155 3 years ago

    Not jumping on the grammar bandwagon, but the expression is not "I could care less about his grammar or his spelling." The expression is "I could NOT care less..." because what you said actually means you DO care about it.

  • seasidebaz #156 3 years ago

    Phew, I can through stones.

    No glass horse shoes, you see.

  • PearOfAnguish #157 3 years ago

    "Yet a simple search for game reviews"

    Try 'games reviews' :)

  • seasidebaz #158 3 years ago

    @iok:

    Nah, it's "couldn't care less". If you could care less, you have some amount of caring there. To not be able to care less implies you have no care for the subject matter whatsoever.

  • eqvilim #159 3 years ago

    Are you joking right now Pear or just a complete and utter moron? It baffles me that still after all these posts you don't get the point. And because you don't, I won't bother to argue with you anymore as it's similar to arguing with the street corner, or even read your poorly argued retorts. I still can't believe you don't perceive the difference between my post pointing out the flaws in someone attacking someone else for bad grammar when they themselves make up words and their post which attacks someone for poor english (they may be foreign, english may not be their firstlanguage). The point is, when you attack someone's grammar/spelling it shows you have no other actual valid points to make on their subject matter and debase themselves to nitpicking at anything they can to discredit their opponent. BTW this is not about grammar. Idiots.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:36

  • TriggerHippie #160 3 years ago

    So eqvilim. What you're basically saying is that reviews should stop writing about their subjective experiences when writing reviews and just make a list of technical details. Bullet points, ticks and crosses. Yes, that sounds great.

    Personally I'm happier reading his impressions of those 9 hours he spent wading through a mire of shit. I can balance his experience against other reviewers insights to draw a broader picture. The hilarious and hysterically incoherent fan boy ranting merely adds colour and texture.

  • kozzmozz #161 3 years ago

    Im glad eurogamers is willing to give DF another go!
    Im a paying subscriber to DF with a +20 years active gaming "career" in every type of games.
    Im seriously when i say that this game has some flaws, but that these flaws are NOTHING compared to the fun im having with my friends there!
    Im a sceptic reader that also critisized DF on some points before launch, im in no way a fanboy or am trying to convert pple coming to DF! but ur most welcome ofcourse :)

    Im happy to see that the game im playing now is so much fun, Im encountering many emotions like i would have in other action games and thats a great gratz to the devs for making u feel like that. the sound, the world, the sneaking, the thrill of attacking one, running away from a horde of enemies, my heart still beats as hell when im in a fight !

    I hope someday they will bring a free trial so many of u can at least try the game out for free and see this isnt a darkfail or worst game ever , ...

    its a really fun game, i hope u still wanna give it a go!

    Thx!

  • Hypercube #162 3 years ago

    Ed lied

    So you've seen the server logs then? Care to paste a copy of them into this thread? Or are you just assuming that?

  • spimmy #163 3 years ago

    kozzmozz

    stop playing computer games and go outside you might feel better

  • PearOfAnguish #164 3 years ago

    BTW Eighthours, "amazingness" is not a word. If you're going to ridicule someone else's grammar, please learn the english language. Ty. :)

    The point is, when you attack someone's grammar/spelling it shows you have no other actual valid points to make on their subject matter

    I know dude, it's really dumb. Only an idiot would do that.

  • Sliver441 #165 3 years ago

    @hypercube

    you are a casual gamer. you dont write reviews.
    writing a review requires you to be neutral.
    playing 9 hour is hardly enough to judge a big product like DF.
    this isnt a console game , this is a mmo.

    "Hypercube said ;Ed lied

    So you've seen the server logs then? Care to paste a copy of them into this thread? Or are you just assuming that? "

    no , just simply because any intelligent creatures wich played Darkfall know that 3/4 of the article is bullshit and isnt true. the information and the facts are simply wrong. just like if i would show you a blue pen and id say its red.
    @iokmonkey "I'll hold my hand up and admit, I haven't played it. Never will, either.

    Why?

    Because it looks like shit.
    "

    Darkfall is one of the most beautifull game i have ever played in term of design. it would be like saying that morrowing looked like shit.

    you simply lack the interesto of even giving the game a chance, and you are trying to make valid arguments.

    open your mind , you will acheive nothing with this attitude seriously. you make me sad, bye.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:40

  • seasidebaz #166 3 years ago

    The point is, when you attack someone's grammar/spelling it shows you have no other actual valid points to make on their subject matter

    Don't worry, the DF hardcore are more than making up for it. ZtruK just came up with a list of things wrong ON TOP of what was pointed out in the review. And it's a different list to the one that came from another "hardcore" DF player. And he reckons that these new, and fatal, flaws should INCREASE the score to a 5-8/10.

    We need to waste time somehow.

  • kozzmozz #167 3 years ago

    spimmy ,

    im 27 years old have a lovely girlfriend for 3 years , am working in a medical laboratorium, i have plenty of friends, and still im a gamer.
    My life is a blast , and yours ?

  • eqvilim #168 3 years ago

    If I were reviewing oldschool EQ and said that it sucked because there were no high end raid experiences, very few spells and absolutely no group mechanics I would be WRONG. How is it so hard to understand the concept that if you opinion is based off falsehoods, it is just wrong. If he was playing for 100 hours and came back with this shitty review, it would still be a pathetic example of the game and it would still warrant him finding a job more suited to his select talents (comedian maybe? or extra on the hills).

    Edit: Peachpear, you have not responded to me once save your last without doing that. You're an idiot 10 times over. Or maybe I can't count or spell!. :)
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:41

  • PearOfAnguish #169 3 years ago

    am working in a medical laboratorium

    As an experiment.

  • Hypercube #170 3 years ago

    you are a casual gamer. you dont write reviews.
    writing a review requires you to be neutral.
    playing 9 hour is hardly enough to judge a big product like DF.
    this isnt a console game , this is a mmo

    Haha. Well done, it isn't a console game. When did you start playing MMOs, little boy? Seriously.

    9 hours was enough to know how I felt about Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Anarchy Online, Lineage, Final Fantasy XI, EverQuest 2, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft and Warhammer Online.

    Some of them, after 9 hours, I considered not good enough to keep my interest. Others made me play for years.

    So, in response - fuck off.

    Edit: I forgot to include betas on Vanguard, that pirate MMO and Tabula Rasa. The pirate one was nice.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:43

  • spimmy #171 3 years ago

    let me guess you met your "gf" in a game and youve never met

  • Pike #172 3 years ago

    A quick check in Alexa shows EG's traffic rank to be 5533. out of all websites in the world. In the gaming category it ranks as 120. In that category the only review sites above it are Gamespot, Gamespy, 1UP and IGN. I'd say that's fairly profilic.

    Most other sites on the top 100 list for gaming related sites are WoW related.

  • iokthemonkey #173 3 years ago

    @iok:

    Nah, it's "couldn't care less". If you could care less, you have some amount of caring there. To not be able to care less implies you have no care for the subject matter whatsoever.

    ----

    That's what I'm saying.

    If you say "I could care less" it means you have a measure of care about the subject at hand. "I could NOT care less" means "I have no interest in this at all."

  • XanderFish #174 3 years ago

    "gank and wank"

    glol

  • eqvilim #175 3 years ago

    btw if i'm going to post 100 times replying to the idiots here, on this sadly designed comment box (tiny text, very few options), I will not be rereading it for spellchecking. Sorry if "i" instead of "I" makes my points invalid. However it does give me a greater insight on the type of people who are reading these reviews and basing their opinions off of it. It's about how pretty it is and not about the actual content behind it. I've seen all I need to see.


    For all of you, please google reputable game review sites. This eruoflamer isn't worth your time.

  • seasidebaz #176 3 years ago

    @iok:

    Yes. Sorry, I read your post wrong :D

  • Hypercube #177 3 years ago

    I think it would be better if we didn't nitpick grammar and spelling. It makes us look as stupid as the DF Defense Force. Likewise contemplations about the status of people's girlfriends!

    Let's stick to the game and the review.

    /stealth I'm single and I can't spell post

  • seasidebaz #178 3 years ago

    I keep thinking I've gone invisible.

    Something about every time I post regarding the fatal errors that ACTUAL players are getting, the post evaporates...

  • Sliver441 #179 3 years ago

    @Hypercube
    you are a casual gamer. you dont write reviews.
    writing a review requires you to be neutral.
    playing 9 hour is hardly enough to judge a big product like DF.
    this isnt a console game , this is a mmo

    Haha. Well done, it isn't a console game. When did you start playing MMOs, little boy? Seriously.

    9 hours was enough to know how I felt about Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Anarchy Online, Lineage, Final Fantasy XI, EverQuest 2, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft and Warhammer Online.

    Some of them, after 9 hours, I considered not good enough to keep my interest. Others made me play for years.

    So, in response - fuck off.


    ------------------------------------------------------------ -----

    I started to play mmo's back in the years 2k , ultima online.

    i played hundreds of mmo's since then , some made me play longer than others , and yes you are right , you can know if you like a game under 9 hour.

    you are totally missing the point , the whole point is that the facts about the game are wrong. even if i play 10 hour in a game and dont like it , im still intelligent enough to realise that i barely experienced what the game had to offer , and that my judgement is biased. when i was at school , i learned that OPINIONS and FACTS arent the same thing. you Hypercube , are speaking about your OPINIONS about the game.

    it's his job to review the game , and he did it so badly that it's a shame. he doesnt even understand basic commands that are shown in the tutorial , how the fuck can you defend this ? i really wonder what you guys are defending here. one of the funniest comment is how you cant "move" while navigating in GUI mode ... well im sorry , but its like this in EVERY mmo i played since 10 years, nothing different here ; little tricks , autorun is still avaible like in any game ...
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 15:52

  • Royal Fool #180 3 years ago

    Well done, EG.

  • PearOfAnguish #181 3 years ago

    I Googled 'reputable game review sites' and got a bunch of online casino pages. They all said Darkfall was shit, too.

  • Pike #182 3 years ago

    Those casino sites only cater to carebears though.

    True hardcore gamers only use online casinos that steal your identity.

  • iokthemonkey #183 3 years ago

    Darkfall is one of the most beautifull game i have ever played in term of design. it would be like saying that morrowing looked like shit.

    you simply lack the interesto of even giving the game a chance, and you are trying to make valid arguments.

    open your mind , you will acheive nothing with this attitude seriously. you make me sad, bye.

    ----

    Balls, is it, I say.

    The animations are terrible, the visual effects look like something from a 1990s FPS (oh wait...) and the visual design is crap.

    You're right, I have no interest in playing the game.

    Because it looks like shite. That's a perfectly valid argument.

    It's not some random opinion I just formed when pressed or decided upon one day. I actually looked at DarkFall earlier in its development (being a big MMO player) but quickly realised that not only was it not the kind of game I would enjoy but also that it would be populated with bullied teenagers venting their anger on the world whilst listening to Korn and cursing their mom for making them do the laundry instead of letting them PWN NUBS. And from the posts here, it's pretty clear I've got that bit right.

    As I've said numerous times, if you're playing it, enjoy it. Have fun. I'm glad for you. But most arguments about its "quality" seem to revolve around:

    - It's developed by indie developers, so give them a break (no. Reservoir Dogs is a better movie than Titanic, so that blows that argument)

    - It's brutal, hardcore and not for carebears (good, maybe then you'll stop poluting other MMOs with your OMGWTFPWNAGE)

    - The interface design is revolutionary (no, it sounds badly implemented and poorly presented.)

    - It's hardcore, brutal and only for the uber (yes, that's the same argument twice, but it seems to be a popular one.)

    But yeah, you just keep on enjoying it. Personally I'll stick to supporting GOOD developers and playing GOOD games.

  • seasidebaz #184 3 years ago

    I just googled Mozart.

    He said the same thing. Although with more swearing.

  • Super_Zee #185 3 years ago

    It's a shame that Kieron now has to waste his professional time on this fetid turd just because some bunch of idiots can't take the fact that "their" game is bollocks.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:15

  • TriggerHippie #186 3 years ago

    I don't understand the problem. This isn't the one and only review of Darkfall. If the review is as bad as the Darkfall fans claim then it will stand in stark contrast to other reviews experiences and scoring. The end.

  • Pike #187 3 years ago

    This isn't the one and only review of Darkfall.

    Actually, so far, it is.

  • TriggerHippie #188 3 years ago

    Wow, I stand corrected. Anyone have the figures on game journalist suicide rates for the last 9 hours?

  • BigJonno #189 3 years ago

    "I only need to be kicked once in the balls to know I don't like it."

    Are you sure? Apparently it gets really fun after nine hours. ;)

  • ZtruK #190 3 years ago

    "I love how the Darkfail forums are packed to the brim with people moaning about every aspect of the game, but when it gets a review that appears to give it a score that their forum thinks it deserves, it's uproar.

    Have to love that double standard."

    The official forums have one key problem, it's not like WoW, you don't need to use your in game account to sign on and post. Anyone can post opinions, and if you don't think people simply troll the crap out of them because they have nothing better to do, then you don't know the internetz very well..

    The stuff that IS debated on the official forums and IS legit is nothing close to what Ed points out. Things like

    - Challenger disconnections causing losses
    - Extremely large battles causing crashes
    - Many elemental/advanced spells broken or extremely underpowered.
    - Archery's dominance (probably related to above)
    - Seemingly no softcap (no one's hit it yet)
    - Allies challenging each other to avoid attack
    The list does go on...

    The real problems with the game are not mentioned at all, instead we get factual mistakes about game function.

  • DeadlyByDesign #191 3 years ago

    This is brilliant. i registered to the site just to partake in this carnival of faeces. If the games gets in or around the same score next time...hold on to your hats people!

  • captain_Bad #192 3 years ago

    Nine Hours game time is plenty of time to review a game. I can normally tell if Im going to enjoy a game in the first hour.

  • Sliver441 #193 3 years ago

    @iomonkey

    and your only argument is about graphics , and since you never played it , you dont even know what you are talking about ; its seriously pathetic.

    the graphics are meant to be like this ; because the game focus on siege battles with litteraly hundreds of players in action in the same area.

    this is a game that focus on gameplay rather than graphics , and everyone is pleased with it.

    the insults you are throwing at the games population is simply wrong. yes , there are yougnsters like in everygame , but i met my share of mature persons. Sadly it doesnt seem to be your case ,since you are more concentrated on insulting others rather than trying to make valid arguments.

    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:00

  • Eighthours #194 3 years ago

    BTW Eighthours, "amazingness" is not a word. If you're going to ridicule someone else's grammar, please learn the english language. Ty. :)

    Watch out for low-flying jumbos, matey. I assure you that the use of the word in that particular spot was quite intentional. Go back and read it again.

    Right. Let me preface the following by saying that none of us apart from Ed Zitron himself know the full facts of the Darkfall situation. That being said, his comments following negative feedback to his review of Guitar Hero 2 for Snackbar-Games a few years back may elicit a chuckle or two. He's the user named "Ed Zed":

    GH2 comments thread featuring Ed

    Comment number one: "Wait wait wait; you haven't even played the whole game, you haven't even played more than 10 tracks. What in blue shit are you even doing criticising my review."

    Comment number two (the real gold): "Essentially your argument is that you've played the first hour of a game and gone "this game is great!" You're a genius!"

    God bless the Internet. :)
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:03

  • BartonFink #195 3 years ago

    Probably because nobody else is bothered to waste their time to review it.

  • Sliver441 #196 3 years ago

    or maybe because the game is still currently in developpement ?

  • BartonFink #197 3 years ago

    Or nobody can find the bloody thing in the morass that is trying to get to somewhere to download the damned thing to play it?

  • Pike #198 3 years ago

    Then why the fuck are they charging money to play the damned thing, if it's not even finished?

  • mcbi4kh2 #199 3 years ago

    @Eighthours
    A+ for research.
    Looks like Ed has been a nob for a good few years then.

  • mkreku #200 3 years ago

    The point isn't if the game is shit or not. The point is that Ed's (and Eurogamer's) been challenged by Aventurine of having lied together an article full of factual errors. Did he or did he not?

    I just want Eurogamer to get to the bottom of this and get it over with.

  • BartonFink #201 3 years ago

    Man up and pay the sub Pike you carebear.

  • Hypercube #202 3 years ago


    even if i play 10 hour in a game and dont like it , im still intelligent enough to realise that i barely experienced what the game had to offer , and that my judgement is biased.

    it's is fucking job to review the game , and he did it so badly that it's a shame. he doesnt even understand basic commands that are shown in the tutorial , how the fuck can you defend this ? i really wonder what you guys are defending here.

    It's his job to let me know whether I should consider paying money for a game. If, after 9 hours, a reviewer considers it shitty then I want him to let me know, because I don't want to pay money to be annoyed for nine hours. There are several games where I wish I'd known beforehand how it played.

    So that's his fucking job, and that's the fucking point of a review.

  • Pike #203 3 years ago

    I can't, Barton! I spent all my money on shiny clothes for my pixie in FreeRealms!

  • iokthemonkey #204 3 years ago

    and your only argument is about graphics , and since you never played it , you dont even know what you are talking about ; its seriously pathetic.

    ----

    My opinion is formed from reading about the game AND watching it in action. And from the swishy-swishy gank orgies I've seen, I can safely say it looks like shit. The gameplay looks like shit. The animations are hilarious. The whole combat system is shit. I don't need to play it to witness that.

    And yeah, the community. Just look back over this entire thread.

    I've never witnessed so much teen frustration and OMG UR RONG! panty-pissing hissy-fits in my life. If you're so hardcore, grow a pair, man-up and stop whining because somebody didn't like your shitty little game. Considering the population prides itself on its "HARDCORE STYLE" of living, I find it hilarious to see so many sissies weeping their tears of NERD RAGE over a 2 page fucking review.

  • Eighthours #205 3 years ago

    @Eighthours
    A+ for research.

    I can't take credit for finding the review, it was linked over on rllmuk. But I did explore the comments thread and find the gold!

  • rushwind5 #206 3 years ago

    It's his job to let me know whether I should consider paying money for a game. If, after 9 hours, a reviewer considers it shitty then I want him to let me know, because I don't want to pay money to be annoyed for nine hours. There are several games where I wish I'd known beforehand how it played.

    So that's his fucking job, and that's the fucking point of a review.
    If the review is filled with false information and bases its opinion off that false information, then I as the reader want to know that too. I want an accurate, informed review to base my decisions off.

  • BartonFink #207 3 years ago

    Pike wrote
    06-May-09 16:10:26:
    I can't, Barton! I spent all my money on shiny clothes for my pixie in FreeRealms!

    Ah the crossdressing pixies again ;)
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:15

  • Pike #208 3 years ago

    So far no one has managed to point out any factual errors in the review, besides some possible misunderstandings regarding running and performing actions at the same time.

  • rushwind5 #209 3 years ago

    Considering the population prides itself on its "HARDCORE STYLE" of living, I find it hilarious to see so many sissies weeping their tears of NERD RAGE over a 2 page fucking review.
    I thinks it funny that most of the pointless, personal insults are coming people trying to defend the review.

  • kozzmozz #210 3 years ago

    What im seeing here from many comments is that altough people never played the game, they are breaking it apart. Is critisizing DF a way of life? something cool to do when ur 16? really , u follow a guy u dont know blindly and refuse to think for yourself, u even defend his words even when u never played the game.

    Thats some sick cult ... well done!

    Unless u are a gfx boy that only want to play games as cod, crysis , OP2, ... and want to brag to their other friends on how nice everything looks on their 3000$ comp, this game breathes atmosphere, action, endless fun, and a difference from any other mmo out there, then darkfall is for U!

  • iokthemonkey #211 3 years ago

    I thinks it funny that most of the pointless, personal insults are coming people trying to defend the review.

    ---

    I'm not defending it: I'm LIVING HARDSTYLE and GANKING all the NUBS.

  • iokthemonkey #212 3 years ago

    something cool to do when ur 16?

    ----

    The DarkFall audience will be able to join-in with it in a couple of years' time then.

  • seasidebaz #213 3 years ago

    If the review is filled with false information and bases its opinion off that false information, then I as the reader want to know that too.

    No you don't, you already bought the game. For us who haven't bought it, though, the only thing missing from the review was the stuff about how insanely broken the game is. And thanks go to ZtruK for pointing those flaws out.

  • anylo #214 3 years ago

    Then why the fuck are they charging money to play the damned thing, if it's not even finished?

    You're missing the point. If the game sucks nobody wants to pay anything. Everybody knows that there's still glitches etc. in DFO and yet they want to pay because they think that the game is good.

    Couple of my friends have played DFO since beta and they love it. I'm not even trying it because I know that I don't like it (casual raiding in WoW is enough for me). The smelly part is that Ed's "review" had errors if facts, and now EG is "offering" the second review. C'mon, if everything went "by the book" why there's going to be that second review?

    EG, you just lost some serious amount of credibility.

  • Sliver441 #215 3 years ago

    @pyke

    ZtruK said it all on the second page of comments of the review. here it is ;


    ----------------------------------------
    I’ll leave out all the reviews opinions which I disagree with, but this is a list of quotes that are factually incorrect:

    to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.

    Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

    like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.

    how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.

    The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible

    lack of hit detection

    Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork

    your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

    changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)

    EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior

    no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie

    It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial

    horrible user interface, and broken combat system.

    the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running

    You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.

    At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.

    edit: added 2 more

    -------------------------

  • levitate #216 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey:
    I only need to be kicked once in the balls to know I don't like it.

    Or you could watch countless clips on youtube, read about it on various forums to get different views and finally ask someone who kicks people's balls if it's worth it.

  • BartonFink #217 3 years ago

    kozzmozz
    06-May-09 16:16:33:
    this game breathes atmosphere, action, endless fun, and a difference from any other mmo out there, then darkfall is for U!

    To be honest from what I have read here and on some of the mmorpg.com threads it sounds it is the electronic equivalent of happy slapping for moronic online teenyboppers.

  • rushwind5 #218 3 years ago

    No you don't, you already bought the game. For us who haven't bought it, though, the only thing missing from the review was the stuff about how insanely broken the game is. And thanks go to ZtruK for pointing those flaws out.

    I don't own the game. When I have to read the user comments about a review to discover entire paragraphs in the the review are devoted to false information, then yeah, I think the review sucks.

    As with many MMOs, you walk around using the WASD keys. However, to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode. Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive. It isn't totally clear whether this was a decision or a design oversight, as many other elements of Darkfall don't quite work.

  • mkreku #219 3 years ago

    What I don't understand is why Eurogamer regulars (who are usually quite reasonable) are spamming these threads ridiculing the people who are obviously passionate about the game and feel they've been unfairly treated?

    Instead of mocking them for their "ganking" skills and their age and their limited grasp of the English language, why not just shut up for a second and find out IF Ed's been caught in a lie or not? That's the interesting part in this story.

  • eqvilim #220 3 years ago

    Now THIS is a review. [link url=http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/052009/ 3727_60-Days-of-Darkfall
    ]http://ww w.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/052...[/link]

    It covers the good bad and ugly, by someone who PLAYED the game, on actual features in the game.

  • iokthemonkey #221 3 years ago

    What I don't understand is why Eurogamer regulars (who are usually quite reasonable) are spamming these threads ridiculing the people who are obviously passionate about the game and feel they've been unfairly treated?

    ----

    Because it's a slow Wednesday afternoon and we're bored?

  • ZtruK #222 3 years ago

    "No you don't, you already bought the game. For us who haven't bought it, though, the only thing missing from the review was the stuff about how insanely broken the game is. And thanks go to ZtruK for pointing those flaws out."

    The game has flaws, yes it's far from broken. I was showing you how far off the review is from the facts. The issues with the game are nothing close to what he talks about, in fact you wouldn't know about any of them if you didn't step foot outside the starter zones/goblin areas. So, in that sense it supports AV's claims of very little actual play time. I would bet, the reviewer doesn't even know what a "challenger" is.

  • Hypercube #223 3 years ago

    What I don't understand is why Eurogamer regulars (who are usually quite reasonable) are spamming these threads ridiculing the people who are obviously passionate about the game and feel they've been unfairly treated?

    Mainly because the first people to come here and disagree with the review did so with personal insults, ragerants and a lot of odd/aggressive behaviour.

    Several have since come to the site with some well written arguments against the review, and I applaud that. But there's still a large amount of posters raging away and, much as I hate myself, I can't seem to stop reacting to their posts.

    Too much caffeine, I guess.

    Tell you one thing though - this does make me want to try the game out. Not pay for it - absolutely not. But if there's a way I can see for myself who is telling the truth, I would like to have a shot at it.

  • mumtoucher #224 3 years ago

    maybe ed should log back into darkfall and use the old /played command..... take a screen shot?

    if the game doesnt have /played then....

    no more questions your honor.

  • Pike #225 3 years ago

    I reaqd that list, Silver. It's just some bulletpoints with things theat particular fanboy disagreed with. It doesn't specify in which way the review is actually factually incorrect.

    The points about how the combat system is bad are just matters of opinions, for instance. There is no objective measure to determine wether or not a control system is floaty. That is just an opinion.

  • kozzmozz #226 3 years ago

    @ barton,

    I understand that u may have your doubts about the game as its been a very interesting launch for a game! yes many pple see it as they brought out the beta edition and fastly work up the process towards the final product.

    The thing is u had to be around the forums for a long time to understand why some things went as they are going now, If i started to get to know DF right now i would have my doubts aswell, but i followed the game for over a year now , am playing it for a whole month now and i scratched like 1 % of the surface and every day its fun to coming home waiting this game is waiting to be played.

    the first 2-3 days were very hard in DF but after that, i couldnt miss it for the world now!

    I can tell passionately about many games and this game so far goes in the same book as where i put Command & conquer, counterstrike and Battlefield!

  • rushwind5 #227 3 years ago

    @Pike
    Here's the full context of that list from ZtruK, with each point explained. I'm curious to see your explanation of how the review's points mentioned are accurate:

    o 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.

    -You simply have to hit F

    Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

    -You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)

    like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.

    -You have a small crosshair on your screen

    how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.

    -The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)

    The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible

    -Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”

    lack of hit detection

    -If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on.

    Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork

    -I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.

    your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

    -Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.

    changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)

    -If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)

    EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior

    - This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.


    no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie

    - The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.

    It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial

    - there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.

    horrible user interface, and broken combat system.

    - the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken

    the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running

    - There is a single server farm called EU1

    You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.

    - There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey

    At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.

    - after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”

  • mkreku #228 3 years ago

    But wouldn't Ed at least be able to show off a character that has something that looks like 9 hours worth of character development? I mean, 9 hours should be enough to level up a few skills, right? Gather a lot of equipment? Solve a few quests? He should easily be able to back up his claims by showing a character that has been played for 9 hours..

  • dingo75 #229 3 years ago

    Brilliant.
    Guess EG should have chosen the path all other real review sites did: Ignore this turd!

    Kieron: Life sucks sometimes doesn't it?!? ;)

    Looking forward to part 2 in a few hours / days.

    /buying popcorn

    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:01

  • Sliver441 #230 3 years ago

    @pike

    Seriously how many times everyone will have to state it before you understand ?

    its not about opinions.

    he states ;

    1 - "Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect."

    This is totally false. the only thing your weapon skill change is the damage done by the weapon. some skills also requires other skills to be at a certain level.

    2 - "It isn't even an issue of timing your clicks based on the connection with your sword - it's nigh-on random. Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying."

    Again this is just wrong. timing your hits are very easy ... there is no random factor involved ... it's the same as aiming in a fps ; you have a crosshair with 2 sort of swings ( horizontal and vertical ) .

    changing weap is very easy and takes less than a second ; he had no hotkeys and also had nothing in his hotbar , i seriously question the gaming capabilities of this person.

    those are the 2 most obvious errors in there.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:53

  • iokthemonkey #231 3 years ago

    The "timing" issue in Point 2 is actually a continuation of Point 1. Ed is saying that the difficulty HE experienced in judging the distances, coupled with the lack of feedback HE experienced made it appear random as to wether you struck or not.

    He's attempting to explain why he doesn't like the combat and not just say "the combat sux."

    EDIT: As for the point about combat ratings effecting the outcome of the system, as has been pointed out, this is wrong (apparently.) But perhaps more detail in the game's tutorial would have helped with that if they'd explained just what the skill does, which I assume it doesn't.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 16:58

  • Sliver441 #232 3 years ago

    and this just shows how biased ED is.

    learn to play before even commenting on the mechanics , thats my point.

    *EDIT* and for your info , the tutorial actually covers that part. i dont think we need a 5 hour class to learn that when you left click , it swings in front of you , and that if something is in front of you , you should hit it.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:04

  • iokthemonkey #233 3 years ago

    and this just shows how biased ED is.

    learn to play before even commenting on the mechanics , thats my point.

    ----

    Or it shows the interface/controls aren't as intuitive as they should be and that the game's mechanics are obscure and impenetrable.


    *EDIT* and for your info , the tutorial actually covers that part. i dont think we need a 5 hour class to learn that when you left click , it swings in front of you , and that if something is in front of you , you should hit it.

    ----

    Yeah, but does it also explain what the Combat Skill/Rating/Stat/Whatever actually does? That's the point I'm making. It's like the devs took a conscious design decision to make the game appear "deep" and "hardcore" by just omitting what should be exposed mechanics from the start.

    Oh wait. I'm being a "carebear" again aren't I? For wanting to know what the actual point of the game is outside of PWNING NUBS and being HARDSTYLE and shit.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:07

  • Sliver441 #234 3 years ago

    @iokmonkey
    who said the control should be intuitive ? you ?
    nobody ever said the control were intuitive , they arent intuitive at all.
    once you mastered them though , the controls allow you to freely move like you want , without ever feeling limited.

    the game mechanics are "obscure and impenetrable " ??

    well it seems like theres alot of "bright" people ingame then , they all seems to understand how to play ! :o
    the game mechanics are not intuitive , but very easy to learn still. since alot of features in darkfall are new to casual mmorpg gamers , it gives them a hard time.

    personally i played uo back in the days and it only took me a few hours to get used to the game. i was already familiar with drag to backpack loot and i enjoy the hard feeling of it.

    so now monkey , i really wonder what you are trying to prove here.

    *EDIT* no , you are wrong. the devs just concentrate on more important task than exposing the mechanics , since they are an indy company with only a handfull of employees. they need to priorize certain things , and i thank them for not losing time on clueless players that cant search any information themselves and prefer to know everything from the beginning.

    any smart players figures out all the stuff you need to know once you start playing the game. if you want a game that take your hand and leads you from point A to point B , Darkfall isnt for you.

    2nd EDIT * its fun how you are trying to "blame the darkfall's dev for bad design decision " when in reality , its just a consequences of the lack of employees. i personally find astonishing how a small company like this came on the market with such a good game.
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 17:16

  • GrayGhost79 #235 3 years ago

    @ Pike

    I reaqd that list, Silver. It's just some bulletpoints with things theat particular fanboy disagreed with. It doesn't specify in which way the review is actually factually incorrect.

    The points about how the combat system is bad are just matters of opinions, for instance. There is no objective measure to determine wether or not a control system is floaty. That is just an opinion.

    _________________


    to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.

    This one is very factually wrong. You simply press "F" to interact with NPC's, corpses, Bindstones, and so on NOT the RMB.

    Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

    Completely wrong as well. Inventory management, chatting and such things can be done while moving. Most games have and Autorun function and guess what, DFO isn't an acception. You CAN run and chat, manage inventory etc.

    like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.

    This is wrong as well, there is a crosshair in the center of your screen for magic and archery. That seems like a reference point to me. But maybe I am simply misunderstanding what he means with this one.

    how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.

    This is a matter of personal opinion. Mine just differs from his on this, nothing wrong with his opinion though. If thats how he feels it's how he feels.

    The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible

    Wrong again, blood spatters and the striking sound occurs when you hit someone, nothing but a whiff sound when you miss. Maybe I am misunderstanding what he means here as well.

    lack of hit detection

    This ones a joke right? If it's not, it's simply wrong lol.

    Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork

    oO........... no idea what he's talking about here. The different weapons have different ranges, with it being a tight over the shoulder 3rd person view for melee it's been very easy for me to judge the distance. If it is guess work, that makes me a friggin Savant at guessing.

    your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

    Whoa.............. this isn't even close to being correct lol. The system doesn't roll to see if you hit or not lol, this isn't that type of game at all. Manual targeting and Manual combat, if you aim at your target and swing and he doesn't move out of the way you hit them whether your skill level in the weapon is 1 or 100. The only Skill that determines whether you hit or not is YOUR skill as a player. Not the combat skills of your toon.

    changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)

    Yeah, this is way off base here lol. In the screenshots there was no weapon on the hotbar. For everyone else in game, we simply press "1" or w/e hotbar slot we have or weapon in to equip it. Takes less than a second. Everyone got a laugh out of the fact that it seemed to take the reviewer 10 seconfs to change weapons lol.

    EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior

    Matter of opinion, mine simply differs from the reviewer.

    no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie

    The areas get a lot more definition as you travel farther out away from the newb areas. This I guess would be a matter of opinion I guess..............


    It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial

    There are newby quests as well as a tutorial popup that is there every single time you log into the game. Hard to miss considering you can't do anything in game until you close the tutortial unless you disable it. So again, blatantly wrong lol.

    horrible user interface, and broken combat system.

    Matter of opinion, I myself enjoy the interface. Some things like the commands could use some work but all in all I like it. It's simple and more my style.


    the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running

    The "Few" servers? There's only one currently oO. So....... I guess your saying there isn't enough here.

    You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.

    Huh? To open up the UI you have to hit RMB, to close it you hit RMB again. Not hard to figure it out considering it even tells you that in the Tutorial oO. So again very wrong.

    At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.

    lol, yes this is correct. You will be left waiting to die for up to a minute at times IF you CHOOSE to not hit the spacebar and speed up the process. You have to wait like 10 seconds so there is the chance to gank you, after that 10 seconds if you want to hit your bindstone faster you simply mash the spacebar and BAM. So yes, it you can lay there for up to a minute if you were to "Special" to read the tutorial.


    No most of that was not opinion, it was just very very very wrong, and seems to be intentionally misleading for w/e reason. This is why theres so much noise being made about the review. It's full of false info and seems like the reviewer is intentionally trying to mislead people with it.

    Either the reviewer did not play the game as he claimed he has, or he is simply trying to paint a worse picture for DFO. Either he lied about how much time he played and lied about the game OR he simply lied about the game to make it look worse than it is.

    DFO again is a niche, and very far from perfect. The majority of those playing are enjoying it for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean everyone will. Hell it may even deserve the 2/10 score for w/e reason, the problem is the issues presented were wrong, I mean completely wrong. It isn't a matter of opinion, or personal tastes, or anything they weren't even close to being accurate. Not even in the same ballpark.

    The question on everyones mind right now at least as far as the DFO community goes, is why Ed lied. If these blatantly inaccurate comments weren't put into the review, then I am almost positive that the DFO community would have left it be for the most part. While not everyone is comepletely happy with the game or happy at all with it in some cases, everyone is in agreement that this review was a steaming pile of cr@p. And it's mainly because of the sheer amount of incorrect info, it honestly looks like the reviewer never even made an attempt to play it. He even closed the tutorial (Yes you would have to see it and have to close it in order to play) and even lied about it existing.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:18

  • iokthemonkey #236 3 years ago

    who said the control should be intuitive ? you ?

    ----

    Yes, me. A professional game designer with over 15 years of experience, a number of best-selling, award-winning games to my credit. But hey, what do I know?

    You see, now you've gone over from being an excited fan of the game defending its shortcomings to an absolute idiot, the kind of person Ed singles out in his review.

    Bad controls, obscure mechanics and poorly executed content make a game better? That's hilarious. You know, I actually thought you were one of the more sane fans of DarkFall but now it becomes clear you're totally fucking clueless.

  • Sliver441 #237 3 years ago

    Yes, me. A professional game designer with over 15 years of experience, a number of best-selling, award-winning games to my credit. But hey, what do I know?

    You see, now you've gone over from being an excited fan of the game defending its shortcomings to an absolute idiot, the kind of person Ed singles out in his review.

    Bad controls, obscure mechanics and poorly executed content make a game better? That's hilarious. You know, I actually thought you were one of the more sane fans of DarkFall but now it becomes clear you're totally fucking clueless.
    ------------------------------------------------------------ ---

    ( Note to everyone , this person never played the game. )

  • NpGpR #238 3 years ago

    Hi,
    I found the article terrible, not inaccurate(for someone who had played it for 2 hours)
    I agree with him about the texture-thing,but this can be improved.It's up to the developers. On the other hand, if you want to compare it with the Wow-fairytale-basic-colors texture i think you can see the difference... L2 has great textures, i can ‘t ignore that!
    I'm studding "Game Developing and Design" and i know that you have to be careful of the texture quality otherwise the game won ‘t be compatible with an average pc, and this is a standard rule (multimedia tech course).
    As far as the combat system,you have to be a skilled person to play it,not this "lock-on-retarded" system!You have to hit something to damage it. Now if you are UNskilled and you cant aim a mob or a player that’s your fault. LOL
    I was a beta tester in DarkFall and i detected several mistakes, but that’s the reason patches are for! One of the mistakes was the animation of the character, it was terrible but it’s improved now! And another mistake was the difficulty of killing the goblins, yes i agree but think of that, when you are a noobie in the game you can kill from the hardest opponent to the easiest opponent. You are not bounded to follow steps in order to gain levels. That’s the definition of Freedom during the game. From its start you ‘re able to do things!
    About the skill system and according to my opninion, its GREAT. It ‘s preposterous to die from a bigger-level character than you. Why? Is he more skilled than you? NO, he has just gained more levels than you, so who cares. In DF you have to "practice" in order to gain a skill even though its uncertain if you kill your rival, cause YOUR skill is needed. That’s quite fair i think.
    Now about the loot system, i know it’s a mess but the “bags” exist to bring the solution concerning that problem. As well as something else called "BANK": It is used to organise your backpack! Try it review-guy! Despite that, the drag and drop system when you loot, is there for a reason. During the looting procedure, you have to be fast to get what you want. don't you think that a "take all" button would be unfair or maybe too easy when 4 or 5 players looting the same time? And yes you have to stand still to loot. Have you seen anyone to loot while walking??? LOL
    The UI is totally adaptable for the user to make the changes he wants. That’s cool too!
    And last but not least is the AI. The AI is the best AI i' ve ever seen and I support that because Mobs are actually thinks. A sort example:When I was fighting a mob, several times i ran out of health and i started running but the mob was still following me for a long distance. And the opposite:, when the mob ran out of health it started running. It didn ‘t just stand there and fight till the end! And DF has the biggest variety of mobs, as swords and armors.

    I played Df for 4 weeks. The first couple of days were awful but when i started to realise the basic concept of the game and started crafting and harvesting, i couldn't get my face off of the screen (:p).The game actually simulates some of our functions, like drawing a sword or throwing an arrow though there will be a delay in doing that. Plus, DF is an original rpg game and brings out many emotions while playing!


    I dont defend DF.It sure can take A lot of improvement


    That’s my humble opinion... judging should be an asset and not just anyone’s privilege.
    Thx :p
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:33

  • iokthemonkey #239 3 years ago

    ( Note to everyone , this person never played the game. )

    -----

    And I make no bones about it.

    I'm pointing out that the reviewer says the control mechanism is clunky. You then agree and try to turn that into some kind of plus point and in the process illustrate exactly the point Ed was making at the end of his review.

    So well done you for proving him right.

  • Dark-Merlin #240 3 years ago

    Congratulations Eurogamer for having me make an account on your illustrious website, just to tell you how unprofessional you are.

    A joker is sent in to review a game so far from the norm he cant even pull his socks up nevermind having a real game experience.

    Gray Ghost above has stated the innacuracies in gameplay your little beginner journalist managed to accomplish in 2 hours of gametime, so I wont focus on that.

    If anyone would like some accurate reviews head over to some real websites and read "Paragus Rants" Blog posts, which even the haters agree is the real state of the game.

    As for Eurogamer, glad to have met you, and forget you.

  • Blacknimbus #241 3 years ago


    And this is why most reviewers give a game at least a 6 out of 10 EVERYTIME.

    He didn't like the game for the reasons he stated...what's the big deal?

    I'm happy that tens of people are enjoying this game. It looks like they are spending more time pointlessly defending it than playing it, though.

  • mkreku #242 3 years ago

    Actually, he doesn't say it's clunky. It's more like "Yeah, I played Halo and it stinks because I'm used to a keyboard and mouse and this controller thing sucks just like the game". That's what offensive about it.

  • Nemish #243 3 years ago

    The review is based on blatant lies, also it should be reviewed by someone with experience on ffa-pvp games like uo, ac or sb.
    Game have alot of flaws, many bad things could be said about dfo without lies, so this review in my pov only hyped the game more as anyone can go and watch a few youtbue videos and see that most of what he said is lies, or just missconceptions of his part due to his biased pre-formed opinion.
    Also 9 hours for darkfall is nothing a simple single siege takes 6 hours to timeout (wich does happens frequently), ending up in a draw, so if he just played 150% of the time a siege does take and its the main base of the game, yes, 9 hours is not nearly enough to check it up, hell even a friendly duel can take more than 20m, not to talk a true fight where you wanna go spent all those consumables that in a friendly situation you rather save them.
    As last, the game has a solid suport base, it can anoy many seeing games like AoC or WAR, fail over time since it was catered to only persist with a larger player base while this small nieche game will last way longer even beeing "worse" cause they aimed into a more specific kind of gamers, as someone said "this game killed shadowbane" wich is one of the best ffa-pvp mmo ever made as it did made the last few players still playing move out of it, when no other game has done it, eurogamers, the damage was made, even mmorpg who have "trashed" dfo at start now are starting to say afterall the game is fun... (http://ww w.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/372...

  • Sliver441 #244 3 years ago

    @iokmonkey
    ...

    its not because controls arent intuitive that you can qualify them as "bad".

    you should really understand the nuance i tried to precise you here ; it's very different from ed's view.

    The controls are very good and complete , also permits you full movement over your character and allows you to precisely aim if you are good enough ; but the controls arent intuitive. meaning that for a new player that never experienced that kind of control before , it can be longer to learn than lets say , a racing game.

    i couldnt care less about the insults you throw on me considering the lack of valid points in your arguments. you are just giving it to me buddy.

  • GrayGhost79 #245 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey

    -----

    And I make no bones about it.

    I'm pointing out that the reviewer says the control mechanism is clunky. You then agree and try to turn that into some kind of plus point and in the process illustrate exactly the point Ed was making at the end of his review.

    So well done you for proving him right.

    ---------------------

    The problem is, the reviewer can't say the control mechanisms were clunky, since it is obvious he had no idea what they were. I mean, he didn't even read the tutorial which had the key assignments laid out on the first page of the tutorial. But of course that was one of the things missing right? lol.

  • garengarch #246 3 years ago

    To quote Hypercube:

    It's his job to let me know whether I should consider paying money for a game. If, after 9 hours, a reviewer considers it shitty then I want him to let me know, because I don't want to pay money to be annoyed for nine hours. There are several games where I wish I'd known beforehand how it played.

    So that's his fucking job, and that's the fucking point of a review.

    Excellent. I 100% agree with this.

  • iokthemonkey #247 3 years ago

    Actually, he doesn't say it's clunky. It's more like "Yeah, I played Halo and it stinks because I'm used to a keyboard and mouse and this controller thing sucks just like the game". That's what offensive about it.

    ----

    Make your minds up chaps! According to Sliver above, the controls aren't intuitive at all.

    I guess that's what makes it so BRUTAL and HARDCORE, right?

  • Blacknimbus #248 3 years ago


    And I'd add that if the DF fanbois getting their panties in a wad here on Eurogamer are in any way a reflection of the player base in the actual game, it's probably a good idea for most people to give it a miss completely.

    That is unless you like punching yourself in the face repeatedly.

  • iokthemonkey #249 3 years ago

    its not because controls arent intuitive that you can qualify them as "bad".

    ----

    An intuitive control system is the basis of all good games, especially "twitchy" ones. But hey, I guess that gives all you big, butch experienced guys even more of a chance to pick-off the newbies and give yourself a nice little chubby as you do, right?

  • iokthemonkey #250 3 years ago

    The problem is, the reviewer can't say the control mechanisms were clunky, since it is obvious he had no idea what they were.

    ---

    Because they're unintuitive.

  • iokthemonkey #251 3 years ago

    And I'd add that if the DF fanbois getting their panties in a wad here on Eurogamer are in any way a reflection of the player base in the actual game, it's probably a good idea for most people to give it a miss completely.

    ----

    I thought they'd be lapping it up! I mean, they're supposed to be BRUTAL HARDSTYLE-types yet the moment somebody makes a comment about them, they all turn into wussies and start whining about it...

  • GrayGhost79 #252 3 years ago

    @Blacknimbus

    Apparently the same could be said of Eurogamer with the comments posted here by it's regulars.

  • Gaol #253 3 years ago

    Given the amount of hits this is getting EG, I expect the second review to be followed by a season of critical articles on the game.. "10 reasons to hate Darkfail", "Technical Problems With Darkfall", "Darkfall Online: A Masochists Guide", "Darkfall Killed My PC" etc etc.

    Is this the first MMORPG to get anything other than an 8/10 on Eurogamer? They rated AoC and WoW the same ffs, they have little credibility with MMO reviews.. as do most mainstream videogames journalists.

    It's not intentional I'm sure, just the press not adapting to a rather difficult genre very well. I'm sure Kieron Gillen will give an honest account.. he's the real victim in all this, you'll have to handcuff the poor cunt to the PC after 2 hours.

  • lolzitron #254 3 years ago

    1) “Half-Life 2 was special, even though it very much was.”

    Ed Zitron is special, even though he took a short bus to school every day!


    2) “to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode. Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.”

    Firstly, you can rebind the functionality of the right mouse button to any key you want. Secondly, you can move while managing inventory and chatting. You do have to stop to use NPCs or loot corpses. Ed Zitron and my dead great-grandmother have one thing in common – neither of them knows dick about games.


    3) “Worse still, the entire economy is player-driven - meaning that anybody wanting to get involved in crafting has literally hours of harvesting wood, or rock, or any of the other generic resources.”

    Or they could trade for those resources with other players. Ed Zitron doesn’t fully understand the meaning of the phrase “player-driven economy” even though he just used it? Color me surprised.


    4) “You can't turn off the UI”

    You can turn off the UI. Ed Zitron fails at input bindings.


    5) ”The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill”

    What in the fuck are you talking about? Hits are detected when you hit something. The lack of intelligence in Ed Zitron’s brain saps the article of any credibility.


    6) “changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)”

    Now we have some proof that you are a high-functioning retard. Changing weapons takes approximately 1-2 seconds. It only takes 5 seconds if you are particularly stupid.


    7) “random placement of flora with little in the way of lore to tie it together”

    Does Ed Zitron bite pillows? It would seem so after reading this. In the future, eurogamer should probably choose a writer who doesn’t seek out lore to explain the vegetation in video games.


    8) “Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe.”

    You shouldn’t say “wars are underwhelming and frustrating” when you clearly haven’t participated in anything except the noobliest of solo noob activities.


    9) “It doesn't even have the basic features that make up even the most lackluster and dull cookie-cutter MMOs, such as a simple experience system”

    “Ed Zitron’s credibility has been decreased to 7.2!” He understands nothing about skill-based systems, and seems to think that Darkfall would be improved by the addition of “features that make up…most lackluster and dull cookie-cutter MMOs.”


    10) “(the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running have been mystifyingly over-subscribed)”

    “Ed Zitron’s credibility has been destroyed.”
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:47

  • iokthemonkey #255 3 years ago

    Apparently the same could be said of Eurogamer with the comments posted here by it's regulars.

    ----

    The difference being we didn't go register on the DF forums and throw little hissy fits about how unfair it all was.

  • richardiox #256 3 years ago

    @NGPGR

    "The AI is the best AI i' ve ever seen and I support that because Mobs are actually thinks. A sort example:When I was fighting a mob, several times i ran out of health and i started running but the mob was still following me for a long distance. And the opposite:, when the mob ran out of health it started running. It didn ‘t just stand there and fight till the end!"

    Wow, stunning AI....you seriously need to play some more games. These Darkfall guys really need to lay of the RPGs. They are coming accross as the kind of geek pricks who will be social outcasts there whole lives.

    Unfortunately, their daft claims that the reviewer needs to endure at least 9 hours of shite to get into a game (that sounds devoid of any fun) highlights the fact that they have no life to actually waste. I dont have enough hours in my week to put up with a sloppy game, too many good ones to be played.

    Can't wait for some more reviews to start coming in.

  • Pauleh #257 3 years ago

    I dont know why everyone is getting pissy over the review, no one has to read it or believe it, at the same time I played DF for quite a while and cant really argue any of the facts he pointed at in his review, DF could easily be the best game on the market if AV wanted it to be, insted they rather show how professional their company is and shout names accross forum boards.

  • GrayGhost79 #258 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey


    Because they're unintuitive.

    _______________

    Depends I guess, If I played turn based MMO's all my life then picked up an FPS the controls would not be intuitive. Basically there not what I'm use to. So yes, you are correct but that isn't why he didn't know the controls. He failed at reading the tutorial, well I guess I should say he seems to have failed at seeing the large yellowish page in the center of his screen highlighting all of the controls since he said it was missing a tutorial.

    As far as you comment earlier on the skills not listed in the tutorial you are correct. They aren't listed in the tutorial, instead they have tool tips that pop up when you mouse over them.

    If you played games like Oblivion, Age of Chivalry, some Might and Magic, then yes the controls are fairly intuitive. If your simply use to WoW, or Final Fantasy, or similar MMO's, no they don't seem intuitive. By hey, thats pretty normal.

  • lolwutisthis #259 3 years ago

    wow, seriously eurogamer? this is PATHETIC. We (forumfall) can prove that 90% of this review was fucking lies. He didn't even learn the fucking game, and it is obvious. You guys are a fucking joke.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 17:49

  • iokthemonkey #260 3 years ago

    "The AI is the best AI i' ve ever seen and I support that because Mobs are actually thinks. A sort example:When I was fighting a mob, several times i ran out of health and i started running but the mob was still following me for a long distance. And the opposite:, when the mob ran out of health it started running. It didn ‘t just stand there and fight till the end!"

    -----

    They should totally trademark that idea. I've never seen a Mob do that in a game!

  • Widge #261 3 years ago

    “Ed Zitron’s credibility has been decreased to 7.2!”

    which is 5.2 higher than Darkfall

  • iokthemonkey #262 3 years ago

    You guys are a fucking joke.

    ----

    What's even funnier is the amount of NERD RAGE going on here with people registering just so they can tell us they're never posting here again.

    I like the "funny" names too. I think "Euroflamer" is the funniest so far and I doubt that genius-level of wit is going to be bested, but I live in hope.

  • iokthemonkey #263 3 years ago

    “Ed Zitron’s credibility has been decreased to 7.2!”

    which is 5.2 higher than Darkfall

    ----

    He needs to repeatedly spam the ability "Review Shitty Game" for about five hours and then it should return to its previous level.

  • chudders #264 3 years ago

    Christ, I haven't seen this many spastics together since Comic Relief '97.

    Keep it up Darknerds.

  • Sliver441 #265 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey
    What's even funnier is the amount of NERD RAGE going on here with people registering just so they can tell us they're never posting here again.

    I like the "funny" names too. I think "Euroflamer" is the funniest so far and I doubt that genius-level of wit is going to be bested, but I live in hope.

    -------------

    what's even funnier is how a completly clueless person who never played the game and obviously hate it can spit that much bullshit in a day.

    remove your head from your ass mister "i work in the gaming industries since 15 years and know everything about it but i cant make the difference between a game that aim a certain audiances and another one that aim the big market "

  • remonk #266 3 years ago

    @ iokmonkey

    who said the control should be intuitive ? you ?

    ----

    Yes, me. A professional game designer with over 15 years of experience, a number of best-selling, award-winning games to my credit. But hey, what do I know?

    You see, now you've gone over from being an excited fan of the game defending its shortcomings to an absolute idiot, the kind of person Ed singles out in his review.

    Bad controls, obscure mechanics and poorly executed content make a game better? That's hilarious. You know, I actually thought you were one of the more sane fans of DarkFall but now it becomes clear you're totally fucking clueless.

    So, you're admitting that Ed calls the subscriber base of DF idiots, using false information too, and when we react, which is absolutely normal, you know that for every action there's a reaction, you're just defending him as an absolute idiot, as since you haven't played the game you are totally fucking clueless. Nice one.

    I like how the people that defend this article by calling the fans idiots. I mean, it's totaly mature to answer to someone you claim as immature the saim way he talked to you. Or do you just need a pretext to start behaving like a child, and you find it when you see someone else behaving as such?
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 18:02

  • iokthemonkey #267 3 years ago

    Who's hating? I'm laughing at the ridiculous amount of FURY being exhibited by a group who claim they're all HARDCORE but the moment anybody so much as pricks them, they piss their panties and start whining about how unfair it all is.

    And I've designed games in a number of genres, but not once have I ever thought, "I'll make this game better by making the controls shit" then try to convince people it's a plus-point...

  • NpGpR #268 3 years ago

    @richardiox
    @iokthemonkey

    I didnt say that the AI is totally fantastic but its not as awful as the review-guy said
    And yes i played wow for several months and i saw the most stupid mobs EVER
    READ before answer

  • lucky_jim #269 3 years ago

    Just a thought, if you guys all love the game so much, and value its "niche credibility", the last thing you want is a whole bunch of n00bs rocking up to ruin your fun. So you should be grateful to Ed for his review. No, really, you should. So say "thank you Ed".

  • NpGpR #270 3 years ago

    @lucky_jim
    the review he did was inaccurate.if someone wants to call himself professional he should at least play the game.
    Not judging in blind
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 18:14

  • Azazel #271 3 years ago

    This game must be fucking amazing.

  • PearOfAnguish #272 3 years ago

    "completly"

    Completely
    You forgot to start your sentences with an upper case again, too.

  • Llewen #273 3 years ago

    I think that maybe what has so many people annoyed with this particular review, beyond it's basic dishonesty and stupidity, is the fact that Darkfall Online is special, in a good way. It is utterly unique in the current world of large commercial fantasy MMO's. The only other MMO with similar interaction mechanics (ie. full loot and ffa pvp) is EVE, and it is science fiction, and a much slower moving game in just about every way than Darkfall Online is.

    Is Darkfall perfect? Absolutely not. I've played it since the beginning of stress test beta, almost every day, and I know as well as anyone that it isn't perfect. Is the UI a bit clunky? It does take some getting used to, but once you are used to it, it is fully functional and doesn't get in the way of game play. Could it be better? Yes, of course it could. But there is so much more to Darkfall Online than a somewhat underwhelming UI. Once you've gotten past the initial steep learning curve, something the EG reviewer obviously never did, the game is addictive, and flat out fun.

    The AI isn't perfect, but it is probably the most advanced AI I have seen in any MMO and at the rate they are working on improving it, I think it has a good chance to be the gold standard in MMO AI before very long. Aventurine doesn't kick or ban players for AI "exploits". Why, you might ask? Because it has the philosophy that if there is a problem with the AI, it is their problem, not the players'. I don't know about you, but I find that particular stance, as a gamer, pretty refreshing.

    That is just another example of what it is that makes Darkfall Online utterly unique in the world of MMO's, and I could easily write a few thousand more words on that topic.

  • mkreku #274 3 years ago

    You know, iokmonkey, for someone who claims to be an "award winning developer", all you sound like is a flaming retard. Is that really what you're trying to accomplish here? Please read what you write before you hit that "Speak your brain..." button. At least once.

    The funny thing is that now you've started including me in the "darkfail crowd". Yeah, whatever, I've only been on Eurogamer for I don't know how long, I've never played Darfall and I'm only interested in seeing how this ends. But since I don't agree with you and your frankly shockingly immature opinions, you decided to group me in with the first time posters here.. Great job.

  • butler` #275 3 years ago

    btw all the retards registering to flame, you're feeding EG potential advertisment sales, gj

  • Ali #276 3 years ago

    Speaking from experience, I know that if you're getting paid to review a game/movie/product you reeeeally can't be bothered to get into, you'll give it an average mark and sit on the fence. Giving it 2/10 doesn't make sense unless Ed played it and thoroughly despised it.

  • nonim99 #277 3 years ago

    "And I've designed games in a number of genres, but not once have I ever thought, "I'll make this game better by making the controls shit" then try to convince people it's a plus-point..."

    Yeap, that's how it must've gone back in Aventurine HQ!
    You should do standup.

    I was in Darkfall beta, there was no tutorial and i managed just fine the general basics in less than a hour.
    Not a genious, not a dedicated player, just someone with slightly higher than casual gaming experience.

    Just like i came from 3ds Max to Blender, I came from WoW to Darkfall. A open-mind to new concepts does that, I'm sorry you just block out all of the content just because the controls are diferent.
    No, they're not bad. They're diferent. But you can't argue on that, can you? You never played the game. Even if you did, it's so clear you're an immature biased little fuck, it wouldn't make any difference.



  • NpGpR #278 3 years ago

    @To ALL
    This is DF
    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn-bloV4QR4&feature=rel ated
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn-bloV4Q...[/link]

    and for the DF "haters"
    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=rVM_j9iMWHI

  • andywilkie35 #279 3 years ago

    This is fucking hilarious

  • rushwind5 #280 3 years ago

    "Speaking from experience, I know that if you're getting paid to review a game/movie/product you reeeeally can't be bothered to get into, you'll give it an average mark and sit on the fence. Giving it 2/10 doesn't make sense unless Ed played it and thoroughly despised it."

    A 2/10 certainly would seem to imply that he despised it. It is a very specific genre. His comment "It doesn't even have the basic features that make up even the most lackluster and dull cookie-cutter MMOs, such as a simple experience system, or some form of tutorial." shows that a sandbox MMO without the standard experience gain is not his cup of tea.

    The problem is that he does not demonstrate an accurate knowledge of the game. Just look at that quote, the game does have a tutorial (albeit a crappy one). A review needs to demonstrate a reasonable knowledge of a game and then present its opinions.

  • summitus #281 3 years ago

    Kieron Gillen ? So you expect people to believe anything on this site after standing by this peice of shit review ?.
    I'm playing Darkfall right now and was probably gaming when you lot were still in Nappies.... the review is bullshit and as supposedly impartial site for reviews , you should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Darkfalls has its issues yes but this review smacks of either corruption or personal hatred / vendetta against Tasos or Adventurine.

    And who's to say just because a journalist writes a review we should read or listen to shit anyway ? I make up my own everytime thanks.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 19:20

  • Azazel #282 3 years ago

    VENDETTA!

  • enemyofra #283 3 years ago

    ATTN: Ed Zitron and Tom Bramwel

    Your reviewer makes it abundantly clear he was an ignorant newb soloing a huge MMO world that is built for large guild vs guild contexts. He clearly got PKd numerously, did not know that you CAN hide the GUI, that you CAN respawn without waiting.

    Let me give your next reviewer some tips, Darkfall is not for soloing, it is not for tourists who think they can get a good idea of the game in 10 hours. Darkfall is for the most hardcore niche of pvpers on the internet. City sieges will consist of 500 people vs 500 people, on a daily, regular occurrence. If you're not in a guild, you're going no where. Chance are, unless your reviewer puts in serious effort to join a guild and spend at least a couple weeks playing you will not have seen enough of Darkfall to make an accurate review. Not because you have to see 100% the content to do your job, this is assuming that in 2 weeks you manage to see even 25% of the entirety of DF.

    When your next reviewer is done I promise you, still dozens of cities will go unseen, schools of magic and skills unlearned, experiences with city sieging and sea-warfare will never happen, and still you will post your review of Darkfall, as if you have experienced it.

  • EmiliasHorse #284 3 years ago

    Just out of curiosity how many subs does DFO have so far? And are all of them now members of EG?

    I watched some video of DFO today, hard to say what the game would be like from the videos but from what I have read from the playing community I imagine a non stop gankathon of epic unfun.

    The wife was getting ready for work and wondered what could be causing a tired husband just off nights to be sat in front of the PC looking at videos. I let her know this is Hardcore gaming at its most intense. She informed me that Pwning that Deer was wrong! I loaded up another of a bloke wandering about a bit but sadly she left to make some coffee. Probably too hardcore for her.

  • TriggerHippie #285 3 years ago

    Lets all grab our torches and head to the gates of Ed Zitrons castle!

  • PearOfAnguish #286 3 years ago

    I'm playing Darkfall right now and was probably gaming when you lot were still in Nappies

    Fuckin' HARDCORE to da MAX, yo.
    I have been playing games since before your parents were born. Battleships, Guess Who, Connect 4...you don't know hardcore until you've played Risk AND Twister at the same time. That is how we live it hardstyle, playa.

  • TriggerHippie #287 3 years ago

    Racing my wind-up Evel Kinievel bike and playing Combat Tank Pong while getting my eagle eyes action man into his blue rubber space suit. Now that takes MAD SKILLZ.

  • GreyBeard #288 3 years ago

    It really puzzles me that people act surprised that a developer on the receiving end of such a damning review would "stoop" to respond.

    People make games. Not machines.

    And it does sting when your work gets shat on by some faceless journo on the net. And by that I mean personally. Emotionally. Any loss of income as a result of said bad publicity is a separate issue altogether.

    Considering the amount of vitriol that gets spewed on this forum for things as trivial as liking the wrong console, people should be somewhat more understanding of the fact that reviewers aren't somehow untouchable and above reproach.

    Now I'm NOT saying that Ed was wrong and Adventurine is right - Honestly I don't know, and as I'm not at all interested in Darkfall I really don't care.

    All I'm saying is that there are two sides to every story.

    What makes me despair is the sheer number of hateful numbskulls who see a situation like this and decide to jump in for the vicarious thrill of being in a fight and picking a side.

    As I write this there are 290+ posts in this thread, I just wonder how many of the posters on here have actually played the thing long enough to have an informed opinion on its merits/faults.




  • Hypercube #289 3 years ago

    Considering the amount of vitriol that gets spewed on this forum for things as trivial as liking the wrong console

    I don't know about anyone else, but I personally treat the vitriol on the forums here as very tongue in cheek. Some of them have made me snort tea out of my nose.

    Edit: Stupid,clumsy fingers.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 19:40

  • Shrike #290 3 years ago

    Oh for fuck's sake, internet.

  • krudster #291 3 years ago

    Storm, meet teacup.

  • methamorphus #292 3 years ago

    Ed got payed 2 make this ....
    Played the game since release, & is the best MMO i ever had my hands on.
    This article says nothing about the game, Ed proberly got killed & lost his goblin loot, i dunno but he so wrong really really wrong on this.

  • EmiliasHorse #293 3 years ago

    I just read the review from the burialgrounds website, Ed failed to mention certain parts of the game but the overall veiws appear to be just the same. DFO is very much a hardcore experience, get a horse some fukker nicks it, make a sword some C*nt kills you loots you. Then because he has become red might as well grief the living shit out of everyone else until he in turn is killed and thus the endless gank goes on. No safe zones? so can you get ganked while making a new sword back at the village, town or from the looks of the graphics slum?

    I imagine there is a niche for every walk of gaming life, I quite enjoyed Sexy Beach 3 for purely collecting the outfits...ermm. But for a company to want to make money surely this sort of thing is only ever going to warrant shit scores, and sod all profit. Blizzard are not silly rich for nothing you know.

  • xpiher #294 3 years ago

    iokthemonkey: how is being able to put every skill and item on your hot bar unintuitive. Oh thats right, its not like every game on the interwebs so it must be chunky. Most of the DF fan base doesn't care that the game got the 2/10 review, its that the reviewer lied about his facts. If you look at the screen shots he didn't have anything on his hot bar and took the screen shots in the lowest res possible. He didn't take the time to mess with the video option, read the tutorial, or the help menu. His other reviews proves that he never spends more than a couple hours in game in any game he reviews. Case in point, his review of WotLK gets a 8.6 out of 10 review, but the review it self is cast like it should get around a 6 or 7. Read the comments for that if you don'tt believe me.


    richardiox: first 9hrs of play for me was spent: making a guild, going out on a PvP raid and winning against groups of a similar size, kill goblins and trolls, farming, doing some quest, figuring out the controls (took all of maybe a min to get everything the way I wanted because I asked questions), getting a mount, and exploring. Ed's 9 hrs were spent doing pretty much nothing.

    Ali: or he had a ventdetta against the game because the community doesn't like "wow carebares"

    Emilia'sHorse: The game has over 10k active subs based on the http://sp readsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p... which is the major alliance spreadhsheet. Before I took down the numbers, because they weren't accurate of the individual alliances, the total amount of players in the alliances was over 10k. Not all alliances are on the list and not all members of the alliance are either, but its damn close. If you want a PvP game you can relax and just play I would suggest GW, but if you want a sandbox PvP game where you can be part of epic battles I suggest DFO. I don't suggest anyone to play WAR because honestly that game isn't worth a sub since GW nearly has everything that WAR does and GW2 will have everything that WAR does and more.

  • Razzajazz #295 3 years ago

    I've been watching this car crash for the past 2 days now, and I just can't understand why all the DF forumites came over here to defend their game. If it's great, then go play it! I do have to say that out all all the gaming sites I frequent, I respect EG above all others in terms of integrity, and people on here saying shit like "They must have a vendetta against AV" and whatnot must be on crack! Why would they?

    I have to agree with the people saying that 9 hours is enough to judge a game, if you don't like it after 9 F***ING HOURS then things aren't gonna get much better! And why should Ed's opinion not be valued? This site is called Eurogamer, not EurohardstylePvPer! His opinion, whether he's into this kind of thing or not, is the opinion of a gamer. It's totally valid.

    To be honest, to me the game looks like total shit, and I have no interest in playing it at all, but then again, I guess I must just be a "carebear". All the hardcore PvPers out there on the 'nets most likely already know about and are playing this game, so why is a two-page review on a "Completely Biased" website going to change anything? I do look forward to Kieron's review though, as I have a feeling all the Darknerds are going to be even more vitriolic! Grab the flaming torches, peeps! :D

  • EmiliasHorse #296 3 years ago

    @anduz
    Probably very true. Maybe that will be written into the current non existant lore of DFO.

  • rushwind5 #297 3 years ago

    @Razzajazz
    I love it. Most of the flames are coming from the regulars over and over. All ya got is personal insults? If I wanted that, I'd go to ForumFall. As for the review, don't forget that the reviewer demonstrated a very poor knowledge of the game. So yeah, his review based off of a lack of and false information is getting criticized.

  • Sliver441 #298 3 years ago

    it's trully sad how some people nowadays judge something without experiencing it themselves. all the regulars here base their assumption on some youtube videos , or other shady reviews , but only the players like me and others here know that 3/4 of the article is simply false.

  • Elorne #299 3 years ago

    "I have to agree with the people saying that 9 hours is enough to judge a game, if you don't like it after 9 F***ING HOURS then things aren't gonna get much better! And why should Ed's opinion not be valued? This site is called Eurogamer, not EurohardstylePvPer! His opinion, whether he's into this kind of thing or not, is the opinion of a gamer. It's totally valid. "

    Stop bandying around 9 hours. As the devs have stated, they have server logs stating he was logged in for only 2 hours, of which a proportion was spent creating multiple characters.

    That's a laughable excuse for playtime to judge a game like Darkfall. He made inexcusable factual errors, clearly didn't understand the majority of the game mechanics, didn't leave the starter areas, doesn't appear to have joined a guild or experienced any of the group v group pvp the game is all about.

    This was a disgrace of a review and EG really should have retracted it at the request of Aventurine.

  • Lubey #300 3 years ago

    Razzajaz: 'Why should Ed's opinion not be valued? '

    Have you ever read Eds blog? He seems to spend a lot of time not valuing the opinions of his fellow game reviewers.

    Take a look: [link url=http://www .blog.edzitron.com/?p=23#more-23
    ]http://www .blog.edzitron.com/?p=23#more-23
    [/link]

    According to Ed, EDGE also have no right to review FPS's apparantly. Quite ironic since his other reviews ive come across are equally poorly written.

    When the reviewer fills his blog with flaimbait diatribes worthy of the gamefaqs forum, he kind of looses his credibility in my eyes. Not sure why everyone here is having a hard time admitting his review isnt up to the usually high standards of EG.

  • rushwind5 #301 3 years ago

    'Probably very true. Maybe that will be written into the current non existant lore of DFO. '
    Care to comment on what this "lore" is that DF is missing? The game states on its website that there is purposefully no central story, that's part of the sandbox style for it. If you mean world lore or lore behind each race, there is plenty of information about these on the website. This is another good example of inaccuracies from the review.
    "This may be attributed to the lack of rhyme or reason to the world, which verges on random placement of flora with little in the way of lore to tie it together."

  • xpiher #302 3 years ago

    Razzajazz: most people are at work coming here to comment for one. Secondly, EG is considered a reputable source for gaming news and reviews and as such reviews like the one above shouldn't ever be published as offical because 1) the facts are wrong, 2) to judge any MMO, especially sandbox MMOs, you have to have more than 3hrs of play time in game. Do you think someone who's played EvE can make a fair judgment of it only playing for 3hrs. I sure in hell don't

  • EmiliasHorse #303 3 years ago

    @rushwind5
    Oh for fucks sake! It was sarcasm. You lot really need to taking a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror.

  • seasidebaz #304 3 years ago

    Wow, what happened here?

    :p

  • rushwind5 #305 3 years ago

    @Emilia'sHorse
    I apologize for missing that. In my defense, sarcasm isn't always easy notice from typed text. And my hair looks fine in the mirror, thank you.

  • Razzajazz #306 3 years ago

    @Elorne

    There is no way that they should retract any review at the request of any publisher or developer, that's simply ridiculous. And fair enough, while the amount of time Ed actually spent playing or not is still not agreed at this time, the crux of the argument seems to be whether or not he "got" Darkfall or not. For me, one of the marks of any good game, regardless of genre, should be that a player "gets" it within the first couple of hours. I'm going to make an assumption, that Ed isn't actually retarded, he's of average intelligence at worst, and clearly understands the medium of gaming, being a games journalist. Should he really have as much difficulty at the start as he seems to have? Does that seem right to you? It doesn't to me, that's just all I'm saying.

  • Strifer #307 3 years ago

    Well, you all fail to realize that MMO's are shit. And MMORPG's, oh boy, they are a plague upon this industry.

  • EmiliasHorse #308 3 years ago

    The sad fact of the matter is this game was never in a million years ever going to get anything like a good score. Even the most gushing of forum review begins with the tag line "This game is not for everyone", yet that line could be said for all games it seems it has to be stressed here more than any game before it. Why?

    Because it is love hate. Why did Ed have to push on past 10 hours when what he had to relay back to the EG viewer was pretty much what we needed to know. I have bought games that EG hated with a passion, I have felt the pang of not seeing the game as I see it then I remember I am not the reviewer. It is his opinion, I suspect KG will see the game slightly differently but not necessarily in a better way.

  • xpiher #309 3 years ago

    Razzajazz: Its not that he "didn't get" darkfall. Its that he got his facts completely wrong about simple game mechanics.

  • Razzajazz #310 3 years ago

    @ xpiher

    Well, why is that? I'm not saying that Darkfall isn't a great game, I honestly wouldn't know, but why shouldn't the average person who has played MMO's before be able to understand the game mechanics? To me, it just seems rather obtuse. And to me, that just shouts bad game design. Again, I really am not trying to cast judgement on something I don't know about, but if a games journalist doesn't get it, then regardless of anything else in the review, that's going to be an important indicator to me.

  • Elorne #311 3 years ago

    Unless this was a games journalist going into a review project with clearly pre-defined opinions, doing a half-assed job of researching his review, and just about scraping the absolute minimum required effort to get his pay cheque.

  • xpiher #312 3 years ago

    Razzajazz: Its just different. Instead of having Alt + Z to remove the hud like every other MMO its Alt + H (which is like an FPS), instead of having rest bound to R its a skill you put on your hot part, instead of having quest log bound to L its bound to J, instead of auto loot its manual (intended), instead of using enter, or click to use items and talk to people its F (again like an FPS game), and just like every other game in existence to quick change weapon you put it on your hot bar. He didn't even read the tutorial that flashes every time you log in, until you turn it off, to get that basic info of how to interact with the environment.
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 21:30

  • EliBoneson #313 3 years ago

    maby Ed was pissed becaused he got the ban hammer for Haxoring with 3rd party programs.

  • Sliver441 #314 3 years ago

    Razzajazz said ;"Again, I really am not trying to cast judgement on something I don't know about, "

    then what the hell are you doing ? o.O;

  • rushwind5 #315 3 years ago

    @Emilia'sHorse
    I would have been suprised if DF had gotten above a 6/10, 4/10 or 5/10 would seem about right.

    @Razzajazz
    I think the issue is more than just of whether the reviewer 'got' the game or not. He literally said there wasn't a tutorial and there was. How does that kind of oversight happen? Or expecting the game to have intricate lore, when it specifically states that is not its intended goal. Also he does not just say he couldn't figure out various parts of the interface like using the hotbar for weaponswitching , or moving while you interact. He specifically states that you can't do these things. When you're giving a game a 2/10 review you should be able to show a decent knowledge of the game first.

  • GrayGhost79 #316 3 years ago

    @Razzajazz

    Well, why is that? I'm not saying that Darkfall isn't a great game, I honestly wouldn't know, but why shouldn't the average person who has played MMO's before be able to understand the game mechanics? To me, it just seems rather obtuse. And to me, that just shouts bad game design. Again, I really am not trying to cast judgement on something I don't know about, but if a games journalist doesn't get it, then regardless of anything else in the review, that's going to be an important indicator to me.


    ___________

    The thing is, with the amount of things he got wrong and how simple much of it was it's impossible for most of us to believe he ever actual attempted to play. It really looks and sounds like he logged in messed around with the char creation screen, took some screen shots, then logged out and wrote the review. I am fine with a bad review on a game I like, the thing is I would actually like the reviewer to play the game prior to writing the review. In this case, it's obvious that the reviewer did not.

  • Widge #317 3 years ago

    I'm not putting any skills on my hot part

  • xpiher #318 3 years ago

    WARRRRRR!

    There is a great deal of lore, people just don't read quest descriptions anymore thats all.
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/09 @ 22:36

  • ChinaCat #319 3 years ago

    Given what's obvious to those of us that have, or do, play Darkfall, that Ed Zitron knows little to nothing about the game he reviewed, regardless of his opinions, I request EuroGamer provide the resume of Ed Zitron, or any prior reviews Ed has done on MMO's, specifically ones with PvP as a core feature, to demonstrate a shred of validity to support its choice for Ed as qualified in the first place. I want to see sample reviews he has done in the past on MMO's.

    In addition, I would like to know why some of the most innovative and core components of DFO were entirely left out of the review, sich as City and Ship Ownership and Sieging; Territorial control and politics the players have created.

    No seasoned gamer gets extremely upset over a review; but most people get upset over negligence, and that is certainly what is obviously happening here, and what Euro-Gamer refuses to own; likely based upon legal advice.

    -CC
    Edited by 2 at 06/05/09 @ 22:58

  • Octaeder #320 3 years ago

    I can't decide if this is the funniest, or second funniest comments thread on Eurogamer.

    Actually it's probably tied... With the Darkfall review's comments thread, obv.

  • WJF #321 3 years ago

    @Silver and countless others during the course of the past two days:

    We can't 'try' the game because there isn't a free trial. We can 'buy' the game to find out just how shit/amazing it is, but personally I'd rather not have to spend cash on what looks like (from vids and shifting through both forums) an over-ambitious gank-fest.

    Of course, that's just a guess. Now if the developers would kindly release a free trial, we could all make valued judgments based on our 2 hours of playtime :-D

  • WJF #322 3 years ago

    @Octaeder

    MGS4 still wins it for me, but this one is getting so close to toppling it. Once KG rip...I mean, reviews it, I expect fireworks and effigies of carebears set on fire (in a theme park, natch).

  • Das717 #323 3 years ago

    This game is deeper than it looks, loving it! Forget reviewing it, just sign up!
    :p
    -pc gamer '96 to present.

  • Octaeder #324 3 years ago

    @WJF

    MGS4 was good - as was LBP - but I think these top it for me.

    You're right though. Gillen's should be spectacular. I may buy popcorn.

  • RedSparrows #325 3 years ago

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE review it badly

    I really want to see the nerdplosion

  • brendor #326 3 years ago

    When will the "Darkfall 2/10" hilarious t-shirts be available to buy on the eurogamer store

  • Pike #327 3 years ago

    Well, it was fun for a while, but could the Darkfall fanboys please go back to pissing in bottles in front of PCs in their parent's basments now, please?

  • Syrette #328 3 years ago

    I bet they're loving this extra publicity. If it wasn't for this episode I'd have never known of the game's existence.

  • Das717 #329 3 years ago

    Kinda makes ya wonder what Pike really stands for.

  • Arnfiarnunn #330 3 years ago

    Those who played in darkfall know that this tester tested nothing or made it with its feet and hands in the back!

    It's a shame to say that about this game without real testing, he should go back to WoW and stay in.

    Darkfall has qualities and defects, but not those who are related here!

  • Das717 #331 3 years ago

    Remember these are the same guys who claim to love gaming nostalgia, but they cannot recognize it in their own backyard. Shame really what has become of some who do nothing but try to think of witty comments, really it is, lol.


  • EmiliasHorse #332 3 years ago

    @Pike

    I just had a vision of what you said. Worrying

  • AOFanboi #333 3 years ago

    <em>That is unless you like punching yourself in the face repeatedly.</em>

    But you cannot know until you have tried, and if you do punch your face and don't like it you should persist until you have punched yourself for fifty hours otherwise you are TEH BIAZED!

    <em>People make games. Not machines.

    And it does sting when your work gets shat on by some faceless journo on the net. And by that I mean personally. Emotionally. Any loss of income as a result of said bad publicity is a separate issue altogether.</em>

    A COMPANY IS AT STEAK! (Reference to a rebuttal from the developer of Dawn when that project was ridiculed back in the day.) Oh cry me a river, the world does not owe anyone a success in business. I am sure the makers of Ishtar and other cinema flops also hated the "pad publicity" and blamed the lack of success on those evil reviewers, but it could have helped to make something good in the first place. And not, as in this case, something that sounds like a hotch-potch of ideas "lifted" from other games, like Shadowbane, Ultima Online etc., catering to insecure teens wanking off as they run around with their noob-killer characters.

  • lolwutisthis #334 3 years ago

    http://im g19.imageshack.us/img19/1433/wa...

  • WJF #335 3 years ago

    Isn't that the third or fourth time that pointless image has been posted? What are you trying to achieve by posting it again?

    At least one of the original posters shouted random nonsense in caps.

  • Sunyavadin #336 3 years ago

    If Kieron doesn't give it 1/10 something is VERY rotten in Eurogamer.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 00:21

  • bad09 #337 3 years ago

    Anyone put this up yet? Can't be bothered looking through the posts!

    Seriously guys you make MGS fans look sane!

  • Azazel #338 3 years ago

    < drunk

    Ok this is seriously fucking boring now. WTF

    Go outside. There's girls and booze and shit.

    /he says sitting at his computer surrounded by geekery.

    TEH IRONING

  • Razzajazz #339 3 years ago

    I have seen some hilarious shit in this thread, "I demand that Eurogamer retract the review at the request of Adventurine", "I demand that Eurogamer provide the reviewer's CV and his credentials for reviewing PvP MMOs"

    Are you guys for real? Seriously? It's borderline insanity! This tops the MGS4 thread, no question!

    Also, screw the "Darkfall 2/10" T-Shirts, I want one that says "Live Hardstyle!! :p

  • Das717 #340 3 years ago

    Thousandth post gets a free lizard on a stick.

  • Henrik_se #341 3 years ago

    @ztuk:

    "The real problems with the game are not mentioned at all, instead we get factual mistakes about game function."

    Wait, you're trying to defend the game by saying that the game *is* shit, but not in the way the review describes it?

  • Henrik_se #342 3 years ago

    "nobody ever said the control were intuitive , they arent intuitive at all."

    With friends like this... :-D

  • Sliver441 #343 3 years ago

    Henrik_se is another pointless troll without any valid arguments i presume ? *sigh*

    here's a review on ed's review , i give it 9/10.

    By Dethnoble ;
    A Review of Eurogamer.net's Review of Darkfall

    As reviews go, you run across good reviews and bad reviews. Sometimes, reviews don't seem to mesh with your own opinion and yet the reviewer has this skill to make you at least understand where he is coming from. Then, you stumble upon a review where everything about it reeks of bias. Case in point, Eurogamer.net's review of Darkfall, located here: [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfall-online-review
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfa...[/link]

    From the get go, with comments like "But nevertheless, a job is a job, and play I must," you get the impression that the reviewer had preconceived notions that he wouldn't be enjoying the game he is about to review. From there, it's only a downward spiral of why he hates this or that design mechanic or gameplay element.

    As this reviewer goes on and on about this flaw or that flaw, every single one of these 'flaws' appear to be originated in one's own favorited gameplay. For some, it'd seem that they would quickly get the impression that this reviewer already has their own opinion of how gameplay should work in an MMO and if anything deviated from this, that it is automatically labeled as terrible and thus deserves a terrible score.


    Further comments, such as "And so hit those bloody things I did, not enjoying one second of it," quickly makes you realize the absurd level of bias this particular reviewer brought to the table, while reviewing the game. His comments, before this, such as "On further questioning, this was revealed to mean keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger," would make many people understand why he so quickly goes into the game with a grudge. Things are simply not handed to him as they are in games like LoTRO or WoW, which he obviously enjoyed very much since he gloats about them a few times throughout the article.


    In one breath, he slams the idea that it takes time to skill up but in another breath, he becomes an expert in the entire system. So much so that he can make comments such as this "You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. You slowly but surely gain stats in everything as you do it, ranging from running to wood-chopping to sword-fighting to spell-casting. This sounds as if it would make for an incredibly individual and adaptable experience, but the lacklustre presentation of the game melds with the tortoise-slow skill-up speed to make the experience quintessentially painful."


    Comments such as that should make most readers realize that this particular reviewer went into a game, which rewards you over time and not instantly, wanting to be rewarded instantly and in the manner that WoW and LoTRO rewards you. That, in itself, should tell many people that this reviewer has a completely bias, and thus unfair, perspective of the game from the get go.


    But, this particular comment takes the cake:


    "Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of you barely have any content, and claim that the core of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build camp and towns, and fight each other in epic wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe."


    Throughout the years, everyone understood that Darkfall was going to be about the guild warfares, the town vs. town battles, the epic battles between the players. And, in light of all that, he completely dismisses the most important feature of Darkfall, as if it was meaningless and has no real relevence. A feature that, even if you played the game for ten hours, you couldn't really appreciate or participate in. A feature, which is the primary selling point of the game.


    This would be akind to if I played Magic:The Gathering, bought the cards and even traded between players, but yet never played the game itself and decided to review it. My point here is that is the primary feature, the best feature of Darkfall, and he never even participated in it.


    "I genuinely wish that this was a case of me not getting what Darkfall is trying to do" is another comment that this reviewer makes. And yet, as evidence by his own review, his own comments that you can see he never truly got what Darkfall is trying to do because he never participated in the main features of the game.


    Why didn't we hear him go into detail about clan vs. clan warfare, these player made cities, or even ships and the combat you can do while sailing on ships? All the comments about this game is wrapped around what LoTRO, WoW or even Everquest did, but never mentions that Darkfall was never trying to be like those games.


    To further allude to how terribly bad this review is, have a look at this comment:


    "While other MMOs have relied on their players to fill in the content to an extent - Star Wars Galaxies being the most notable example - few have abused the sandbox mentality so readily as Aventurine. It's the emperor's new clothes of 2009: such a marvellous game that only an idiot wouldn't realise the beauty of the gaping holes in its content, its wonky control system, and its seemingly decade-old engine."


    This comment simply cements the case that this reviewer tried to pass something off, that was atrocious at best, as some kind of professional journalism. It doesn't help his case at all that he didn't participate in the sandbox features, but he also commented that the game had a seemingly decade-old engine. The same engine that has managed to bring player made towns, clan vs. clan warfare on large scales, in a seamless environment. Something that neither Warhammer or Age of Conan managed to do.


    Ultimately, he wraps the game up with this comment:


    "Even if you were so inclined to take part in this painful experience, it's rather difficult to actually buy it. The subscription page is buried within the forums, apparently hidden from public view in the hopes that internet loud-mouths would leave it well alone (the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running have been mystifyingly over-subscribed). In fact, the only clear description I could find was from an external site that linked to the subscription page - which was not available through the official site. We'll spare you the link. Use your credit card at your peril."


    Throughout the whole review, this is the only part that he writes that has any credibility or legs to stand on. It makes me wonder if his whole opinion of the game was really wrapped around this argument, one that alot of people who like to rant about the game falls on once all other points of their rant are called out and easily dismissed.


    Never in my life have I read a supposedly professional review by a supposedly professional reviewer, reek of such unprofessional, bias angles and lack of true depth or incite. One can easily get the impression that the reviewer never truly gave the game a shot nor did he enter into the review with a fair and balanced attitude. Instead, I have the impression that his mind was already made up before he set foot into the world of Agon.


    For this, I must give the review a 2/10. Although it was remotely entertaining at best, it ultimately failed on many levels to be of any worth and felt more like a rant than a review.


    Final Score: 2/10

  • Razzajazz #344 3 years ago

    Was that wall of text really necessary?

  • pedram #345 3 years ago

    EG review is not biased just informed, its about times MMo developers realize that making an MMO is extremely hard, and takes a staggering amount of experience. DONT make an MMo as your first real project, stick to hgames ala PopCap. Blizzard made Wacraft, starcraft, Diablo and the tried WoW. Same with other good MMOs. Darkfall is a TOTAL wate of time. If you wanna try a new MMO, try FreeRealms, its AWESOME and its free!

  • darkmorgado #346 3 years ago

    Hi everyone. I've been reading Eurogamer for a while now and have been following this thread since being, simply, astounded by the sheer amount of responses generated by a review of a very obscure and niche title.
    A few thoughts:

    It is clear that there are factual inconsistencies within the text of the review.

    The developers claim to have logs recording less than 2 hours of playtime are, at present, just that - no proof has been publicly provided and independently verified.

    Claims of a "conspiracy" to discredit Darkfall are, quite simply ludicrous. Seriously, a niche game that hardly anyone has heard of hardly warrants that level of importance.

    The response and level of maturity of the so-called Darkfall "community" has probably done more to harm the reputation of the game than Ed's review ever possibly could.

    Many of the forum posts on the Darkfall official forums actually agree with the assessment of the game that Ed wrote, as do many I have read on MMORPG.com (I have taken time to check opinions from several different sites). While I am not going to waste time cutting and pasting links, anyone with five spare minutes can check this for themselves.

    The Darkfall entry on Wikipedia had already been altered to skew the details of this matter in favour of Aventurine, stating that the developers had provided proof that playtime was less than 2 hours (not correct - they made a claim that they had proof, they did not provide it). I have edited this again to attempt to make it a bit more neutral, but my knowledge of Wikipedia is low so someone with better skills than me may want to verify sources, include links, etc.

    All in all, this entire episode really is rather pathetic. Regardless of whether Eurogamer are right, or Aventurine are right, it doesn't matter. It's a bloody computer game and while we all enjoy the pasttime, it's not exactly worth starting the sorriest example of fanboy bitching (on both sides in some cases) that I have ever come across in around a decade of following forums.

  • rushwind5 #347 3 years ago

    "The response and level of maturity of the so-called Darkfall "community" has probably done more to harm the reputation of the game than Ed's review ever possibly could."

    Reading through the responses of EG regulars and Forumfallers, I fail to see your point. There is at least as much if not more trolling and flaming coming from the EGers.

    "Many of the forum posts on the Darkfall official forums actually agree with the assessment of the game that Ed wrote, as do many I have read on MMORPG.com (I have taken time to check opinions from several different sites). While I am not going to waste time cutting and pasting links, anyone with five spare minutes can check this for themselves."

    Yes, some people agree with the assessment. However, more than that disagree with it, if nothing else than for its poor quality of a review ( its hard to expect people to respect the opinion of a reviewer when they demonstrate a poor knowledge of said game).

    "All in all, this entire episode really is rather pathetic. Regardless of whether Eurogamer are right, or Aventurine are right, it doesn't matter. It's a bloody computer game and while we all enjoy the pasttime, it's not exactly worth starting the sorriest example of fanboy bitching (on both sides in some cases) that I have ever come across in around a decade of following forums."

    Explaining why one disagrees with a review and pointing out its inconsistencies on this website will hopefully lead to better decisions and thorougher review checks by EG. So yes, there is a point in bringing up this bad review here.

  • samcoarse #348 3 years ago

    Frankly the review is correct, there is some hyperbole and it got a bit subjective, but it seems like that preconceived hate spawned from somewhere. If you have been following the trials and tribulation of the darkfall saga you cannot disagree with the essence of what he has to say about the game. Watching people get into to beta and then post their true feelings about the the game in open forums, beta leak forums and etc, watching the draconian mod/dev/gm reaction and bannings for what seem to be meagre and just reactions to a poor product. When the 'legally binding' gag was lifted and we got to see what people other than the long term cartoonist friend had to say about the clearly unfinished beta, the ideology became a little bit more russian than reality. This of course after a long drawn out courting period in which countless people became hooked on this glorious michalangeon chapelesque envisage actively prophecized by the mod's and devs of the game where years and years of benign speculation created a throbbing mass of human lust and a tsunami of optimism for the dawn of a quoted new era.



    When the first leaks came through they were caused by the deserters of the closed beta, long term followers hand picked by the dev's and mod's from the over ripe tree of forumfall each player bursting at the seams with the sap of goodwill and thanks. These people after one, two weeks some days turned foul from the inside out. Their core rotting at the sight of what for 8 years they pictured as the perfect game for themselves and what they were presented with was a reflection from another minds mirror. These people flooded the boards with scathing reviews towers with infinite range, lmb spam, towers even being placed, catatonic AI. The first signs were appearing that the marketing employed by the av team wasn't too good, but far too ambitious, no one can claim perfection tasos, you and your riot cocooned designers should have realized this, you can never promise people eden, people do stupid things for eden Tasos, and when one thing goes wrong they understand that perfection isn't present, when 20 things go wrong the joke begins to fade and when it's more than obvious that there is a lot wrong with the proposed eden, disdain and hatred soon prevail, the apple is devoured out of scorn more than anything and backs are turned with a whimper of laughter at what unhumanly revenge they will concoct.



    Finally, due to assumed financial restrictions and the pressure mounting due to consecutive missed release dates the prison walls caved in completely but the trickle of captives slowly realized the oppurtunity to escape was here. Some blinded by the bright sun stumbled out into agon, slowly people found their own way in through a maze of rumour and chance. Some were near the original leak when it happened, some still wait there turn patiently. These people were in turn caught up in real world matters more prevalent than the actual life of freedom expected from the surprise release. Money issues here, failing to find consistent connections there, and the queing, something that when previously endured didn't seem to have the chemical after taste as any of their similar endeavors. More hate spilled out this time without an NDA to protect them, public gunnings and exiles were employed. Character destroying or not, the words are apparently more dangerous than our actions the mod's concluded.



    Still people claw to the prophecy while obvious flaws hang dubiously in front of them but the memory of the eden in which they were promised is a hard carrot to kick. Perhaps it will come, in the mean time it's a work in perfect progress. Damn the debators and the doubters, it's a possibility! Well children possibility is a hard learned gambling term and another well known phrase in that circle is the house always wins. Is the witnessing of the rheumatics being re-upholstered really worth your kronas? This observer doesn't agree. Who sails on an unfinished ship? Who stands next to someone who's attitude you physically shake your head at and call them peer with an ignorant thumb bitten towards decent society. Perhaps this game is for the beaten player, the one who doesn't belong, who doesn't agree. Well you've found a maker who has made your eden. A horrible tangled mess of basic concepts strung together on a guitar with strings ending not on the parallel to which they began. A mesh of broken dreams and a place in which you are able to release your feelings about what sits before you. A game that inhabits itself and at least holds the disease within, not escaping its over governed boundaries. A fine cancer, one needed for others to exist without worry that it will infect their lifetime.



    None of this can be sanely contested, if it is you will be instantly identified as an infected and left to your own convictions. The only possible reaction aroused will be an all saying, all defining bemused eyebrow. The motion stands..

  • Charlie_Miso #349 3 years ago

    What fun this all is.

  • Avacado #350 3 years ago

    *Wild Zitron appeared.*

    *Wild Zitron uses Defraud Eurogamer.*

    *It's not very effective.*

    *Forumfall's rage is growing.*

    *Wild Zitron uses 2/10.*

    *Forumfall becomes enraged!*

    *Forumfall uses e-rage.*

    *Critical hit!*

    *It's super effective.

    *Wild Zitron fainted.

  • Djdis #351 3 years ago

    Euro Gamer hires "special" reviewers....I mean talk about screwing your reputation over...cant seem to believe a log of an account by the developer of a game(very interesting). Whos credibility what? I guess euro gamer must be a "special" site for "special" ppl. Or mayb you should have used a reviewer that hasnt spent half thier life playing WOW,who has actually played an MMO's which has a greater point than how much money spent on buying a ready made account or how "special" ur sword is. Its unfortunate so many ppl missed out on UO and i still retain it as a basis of who knows anything about MMO's and who doesn't,cause if u didnt play it you will never understand! Such a pity no one actually does thier own research this day and age....i guess its hard tho when u spend every other waking second thinking ur awsome at WOW when ur just more awsome than ur 10 year old neighbour who spends less coin on the game. And unless u have any reasonable proof your reviewer(you know how u are) has actually spent any time playing a skill based MMO like UO i expect to see this post remain right where it is!

  • frostfell.ac #352 3 years ago

    ive played this game and that review is utter crap

    i had the impression that the reviewer was told to give darkfall a bad rating

    oh i need proof how about those screenshots taken in low res in starter towns

    this event yes event should end with 2/10 losing his job for not being honest

    oh proof yeah well send someone around there to verify logs

  • EmiliasHorse #353 3 years ago

    @Frostfell.ac

    Did you just type that before thinking? Never a good thing.

  • DocExtraBeam #354 3 years ago

    Yesterday the whole community of Darkfall Online waged war upon a guild named like a famous and formerly well trusted magazine. Feel free reading the whole storry including footage at casualgamer.de.

    Keep up the good work! ;)

    DEB

  • EmiliasHorse #355 3 years ago

    Boring and sad.

  • Dorundain #356 3 years ago

    I've been playing Darkfall for some time now (i.e., since release) and I've had my share of frustrations with the game. I still believe it's critically broken in a number of ways, and although it gets a little better with each patch, it still has a long way to go before it's ready for a wider audience. When I first heard about the review earlier today, I thought to myself, "What's there to be mad about? It's an unfinished game. Of course the reviews are going to be tepid."

    But then I actually read the review.

    It should be *painfully* obvious to anyone who has spent any time actually playing Darkfall that the author did not. Others have gone through his review point by point, enumerating the basic factual errors, so I won't rehash it, but honestly, EG should be ashamed of this. Gamers are out there reading your reviews to determine whether or not to purchase the game, and they expect your reviewers to be honest.

    It's not the 2/10 that bothers me, because (1) Darkfall really does have some problems, and (2) even at its best, the nature of Darkfall is such that will not appeal to everyone, and it's appropriate that there are low scores out there to represent that breadth of opinion. What bothers me is that EG purports to have evaluated the game, when they evidently did not, and the article contains *factually inaccurate* information without corrections or retractions, even after the mistakes were pointed out. If Tasos Flambouras is correct about the game logs - and according to Aventurine, they've made those logs available to you for your own evaluation - then publishing this review represents pretty outrageously bad journalistic conduct.

  • elikal #357 3 years ago

    I must say it is outrageous that Aventurine practically harasses a game site into making a re-review. The original Eurogamer review of 2/10 was fully deserved, and I hope the other review will keep that verdict.

    DFO is the worst trash I have seen in years, and it deserves every possible predicament.

  • aldo_14 #358 3 years ago


    and it makes me laugh when peoples with no real arguments try to lecture me on my grammar.

    my main language isnt english , answer me back in french if you are that good.

    My apologies for any linguistic misunderstanding, then. 'Retarded' is an insult generally used by complete fucking idiots on the internet, y'see, and I have an unusually strong reaction towards it.

    Shame you didn't actually address any of my post beyond picking up the one single thing (not even strictly related to the issue at hand) that makes me look a numpty, though. Especially the whole 'dollop of tripe after ten hours can suddenly become great' thing.

    NB: Dunno if it's been said, but EGs stance on the logs is that they are incomplete (missing at least 2 days). I'm pretty sure that out and out assuming the reviewer only played so many hours without having a basis in fact is arguably libel and definitely very nasty - lets not forget that the developer has a financial interest in play here.

  • Sunyavadin #359 3 years ago

    EGs stance on the logs is that they are incomplete (missing at least 2 days). I'm pretty sure that out and out assuming the reviewer only played so many hours without having a basis in fact is arguably libel and definitely very nasty - lets not forget that the developer has a financial interest in play here.

    If I was EG I'd be considering a lawsuit based on libel and attempted blackmail.

  • rotmm #360 3 years ago

    @squarejawhero,

    Yes, there does seem to be a touch of hypocrisy going on here. ;)

  • Henrik_se #361 3 years ago

    "Henrik_se is another pointless troll without any valid arguments i presume ? *sigh*
    here's a review on ed's review , i give it 9/10."

    And that wall of text was not pointless? Look, just because someone says something with a lot of words, it doesn't mean that it's true. I'm really amazed at the fervor of the game's supporters, and I can only imagine what kind of continuous circle-jerk the official forums must be to move people to such a state of mind.

    The things that's most hilarious is that a lot of the game's supporters come here and scream and shout and demand things, but their main issue is *not* the low low score, or that the reviewer says the game is shit, many actually agree on that! No, the main issue is that the review had errors in it! Oh noes!

    Tell you what, from the review I was able to picture which kind of players this game attracts, and I can with certainty say that this game is not for me, and had the review not had whatever errors were in it, the result would have been the same. As far as I can see, this is a piece of shit game that looks like shit and attracts twitchy little 14yo's who think that ganking is high entertainment, and it has an arrogant developer that need to learn to take criticism and learn from it.

    Seriously, if a reviewer has problems understanding the game, understanding the interface, and understanding that you have to set it up yourself in a certain way, chances are a lot of gamers will have the exact same problems, and as a developer, you should fix that shit first, not go about discrediting the reviewer.

  • iokthemonkey #362 3 years ago

    I'd like to know when "hardcore" became the new word for "unpolished shit."

  • mordarsnigel #363 3 years ago

    @Henrik_se and others

    Let's just clear something up: Ganking people is much, much easier in WoW (or other level-based MMOs), because it's risk free. Have you tried fighting someone a few levels above you in WoW? It can't be done. I DF, you'll have a fighting chance from day one. Someone with higher skills will have an edge, obviously, as will someone with better equipment. However, if you take them down, you get to loot them.

    If that isn't the Revenge of the Ganked I don't know what is. ;-)

  • raff01 #364 3 years ago

    All the pathetic attemps to defend Eurogamers make me smile...
    Ed Zitron has written a bad review, according to him its the worst game they ever reviewed. But when you have over 20 000 players playing every day, players among which are some veterans of MMOs who have played since Ultima Online and Everquest 1, and these players think its awesome and something special never seen, then you have to question the honesty of the reviewer puting a 2/10.
    Take another super shitty game like, I don't know, Superman 64 on nintendo64, it was horrible, and 98% of the playerbase agree.
    Most of the people defending the review here have not even played darkfall and base their opinion on what they read.
    Ask anyone who plays the game, they will tell you its awesome after you spent 2 weeks on it.
    Don't you question yourself about why we are "fanboys" ? why we defend this game so harshlly? doesn't that give you a hint?
    This game breaks the codes introduced by WoW : easy leveling, easy questing, little risk vs reward, no death penalty, no travel time, INSTANCES, easy to get equipment, linear progression...
    This game is the game for those who've tried most MMOs and are tired with these codes, I personally was waiting for a game where you actually had to walk for 1 hour to get to someplace, and risking to get killed on the way and lose your stuff, while Ed Zitron cries about the fact he had to run 3 minutes to get to goblins. Ed Zitron discovered that this game doesnt have a "I win" button, taking you instantly to the quest spot and killing mobs in 10 seconds to get your reward.
    Aventurine didn't make a game for the casual noob and its NOT an excuse.
    This game is a pure, hardcore Open PvP with full loot, it makes you rethink and re-learn your entire way of playing a MMO.
    Its so hard that one of the 1st thing you should think about is find a clan to have friends teaching you, mentoring you...
    Has Ed Zitron even talked about clans? No
    Has Ed Zitron found a clan? No
    He has claimed to have played 9 hours. is 9 hours enough to get used to the game and fully enjoy it? No, after 9 hours, you just start to understand how hard the game is and realise you are going to need a clan and people to teach you, hunt with you, show you the stuff etc.
    This game is like a very very spicy dish for those who love hot spice, so of course when you're not used to it, it kind of burns.
    I don't care about the naysayers here you have over 20 000 people enjoying it and all I can say is if you don't try it you might just miss something.

  • Henrik_se #365 3 years ago

    @raff01

    "But when you have over 20 000 players playing every day, players among which are some veterans of MMOs who have played since Ultima Online and Everquest 1, and these players think its awesome and something special never seen, then you have to question the honesty of the reviewer puting a 2/10."

    No, you don't. The above just confirms what the review says. This game is not for everyone, it is for a small minority of players who are willing to put up with everything that is obviously broken to get at some sort of player-created pvp fun. This means that for the vast majority of gamers, the vast majority of visitors to this site, this review and score is spot on. It tells us that we should stay away, and rightfully so.

    "Ask anyone who plays the game, they will tell you its awesome after you spent 2 weeks on it."

    I have heard that after spending two weeks of punching yourself in the face, it gets awesome!

    "I personally was waiting for a game where you actually had to walk for 1 hour to get to someplace"

    You really should try this thing called "outside". It will blow your mind.

  • mordarsnigel #366 3 years ago

    @Henrik_se

    Actually, I'd argue that 2/10 means it's not for anyone. Feel free to disagree, but from my reading of the scoring policy subjectivity doesn't seem to come into play until 4/10 and above. Which means that a game should be able to score this on technical merits alone. Thousands of players, raving lunatics or not, does seem to indicate that it's playable, and enjoyable for some.

    2/10 is such a damning score that I really don't think it should be given based on subjectivity alone. If that's the case, someone who really hates WoW could review that game and end up at the same score, which would be just plain wrong.

  • raff01 #367 3 years ago

    Henrik you didn't prove anything, apart from a pathetic attempt to turn to irony all the facts i have given, facts you have none, you said you"ve "heard" ? Basically you have no clue about what this game is apart from the opinion of a man who spent a few hours getting killed by other players and quit in frustration.
    And Henrik, if you don't like a game the hardcore oldschool mechanics its your problem, you don't like the same types of games that I do, you are a casual player and there is nothing wrong with that. WoW is a good game for casual players who like PVE and quick fun.
    This review is just a pile of shit from someone who didn't even try. A good reviewer would have said : This game isn't for everyone, its time sinking, it can be a pain, it can be very frustrating, (some reviewer on another site mentioned it as "darfur";), yes DF is a nasty world full of bad guys and has no pity, no mercy, so if you"re just a casual player just pass your way, but if you're nostalgic from UO or EQ1, or if you are bored with other MMOs give it a try and it might unleash the nasty beast that's within you.

    And last thing : yeah I like having to walk for 1 hour, "in game", you must like to have teleport buttons and instant flights like in WARHAMMER, it makes it soooo interesting to build a realitic immersive world in open PvP if you can just click and get safely where you want...
    I like people who want the "I win" button on a MMO, I remember from WARHAMMER or WoW, after spending 1 day on the game I was fully geared with magic equipment full of stats, owning every fucking mob around with instant recovery time, so fucking interesting huh? hey fuck the DarkFall community for enjoying to have a challenging game.

  • Widge #368 3 years ago

    Try Demon Soul's, its challenging without having to ape years old gameplay. Plus it actually manages to be good.

  • iokthemonkey #369 3 years ago

    I hear Rise of the Robots is a "challenging" and "hardcore" game, too.

  • jreed8721 #370 3 years ago

    [url][link url=http://ww w.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy.php[/url]
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy....[/link]

    "Eurogamer will always give a specialist level of expertise when reviewing a game. For example, there's little point giving an RTS to an FPS junkie who thinks shepherding matchstick-men armies around a map is boring, or an RPG to someone obsessed by driving games. And so on. Of course, like most people, all the EGers like multiple genres and very often they cross over - sometimes we have somewhat irrational preferences for one franchise over another - but we're pretty clear with our preferences so it's very unlikely we'll review a game we're not already curious about. Unlike many publications, we try hard to avoid talking about games we can't speak knowledgably about, and if we can't find someone on the team to handle a certain type of game, we'll try and find a freelancer who does know their stuff. The last thing we'd consider doing is get someone who knows nothing about the game's history or the genre to try their luck; the chances are it'll be a pointless exercise."

    I think the last sentence pretty much sums up what happened with this review

  • raff01 #371 3 years ago

    find me a game with open full loot PvP, no zones and no instances. As far as I know, and i've tried most MMOs, there isn't any, I'm looking forward to Mortal Online which seems very good as well.

  • gmjapan #372 3 years ago

    I like the analogy for "you cant review a book after reading the first page" being applied here since that is true but what can absolutely know is whether or not you want to turn the page.
    2, 9 or 50 hours? 50 days? Its irrelevant if you are wading through shit to get there.

    Looking forward to the subtitle of the second review. ETA for popcorn reasons plz.

  • Eisenstein #373 3 years ago

    Neckbearded basement dwellers aspengerin' about someone calling the shit game they invested 8 years of their live in what it is: shit. Developers known for lying through their teeth pointing out the fabled logs (which of course they can falsify with a simple statement anytime they want). I like it and I will be very eager to learn how the rabid fanboys will claim EG being biased when dozens of similar reviews come in from other reviewers that don't post on the DFO-forum in the next few months.



    The MGS4-trolls were better though. ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 12:19

  • summitus #374 3 years ago

    lol 20,000 peeps playing it as we speak and rising by a few thousand every week ... go figure you morons ...

    and to add there one Guild that already has 2,500 members ... yeah must be a shit game lmao.

    Nothing worse than fucking sheep with no minds of their own..
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 12:56

  • WJF #375 3 years ago

    How can it be rising every week when the developer can't even open the store to buy the program?

    Just wondering...

  • Ruidin #376 3 years ago

    I loved how someone created a 'Eurogamer' guild last night and almost the entire server's worth of guilds declared war on it. Had me in stitches. It is now 2 months since release and while the game isn't without problems, for some hack to trash the game in a review like he did is just plain unprofessional.And yes Eurogamer, you've lost a *lot* of respect by publishing that garbage. As an actual player of the game, I can point out so much the reviewer has got factually wrong(as many others have already done) it beggars belief he actually played the game.

    Back when I used to read PCgamer Kieron wrote some very well informed and great to read reviews... hope he gives Darkfall a fair shot unlike the other guy.

  • KroyMortlach #377 3 years ago

    Props to teh one man who stepped up in-game to register the Clan "eurogamer net". Props too for all the guilds who immediately wardecced (at the expense of any other war dec for 24 hours) this clan. The only time you're likely to see the DF community embark on a war that crosses all boundaries.

    Eurogamer, better hope that your 2nd attempt at a review gets access to a decent clan. Feel free to join Mystical Awakening at http://www.mystica l-awakening.net and we can put your reviewer through our three week apprenticeship scheme so he can actually learn what the game is about.

  • raff01 #378 3 years ago

    @WJF
    "How can it be rising every week when the developer can't even open the store to buy the program?

    Just wondering... "

    Because they are a small company with small budget and had not anticipated to have that much success, they didn't think so many ppl would want to play it so bad ! so they open the shop once every week or so and release around 2500 copies every time.
    They had little money to start with and couldn't afford hardware like Blizzard has, so they limited the amounts of release to keep the server stable for those who already payed. As they upgrade their hardware with the incoming money, they release more and more.
    So its kinda fun to have thousands of players still waiting to get an account for a game that's supposed to be the worst piece of shit on earth huh?
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 14:05

  • raff01 #379 3 years ago

    I played WoW for just over 3 hours.

    Here's my review:

    The game is boring, theres nothing to do except boring quests that involve killing x of y monster, then returning to the quest NPC. I didn't see any other players because they're all high level I assume. It takes 10 seconds to switch a weapon. There is no PVP, and I can't enter battle grounds 'cos I'm only level 3; boring.

    2/10

    see? anyone can do it
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 14:05

  • levitate #380 3 years ago

    lol 20,000 peeps playing it as we speak and rising by a few thousand every week ... go figure you morons ...

    Really? You've got a source for that statement, champ?

  • levitate #381 3 years ago

    Okey, yesterday evening I actually took it upon myself to go through some of the clips on Youtube. I wanted to see what it actually looked like in action and I was dismayed.

    The graphics are awful! What the hell are you guys ranting about? It's truly awful, something from the late 90s and you think it's "greatest thing ever"?! Some people really need their heads checked. Or at least their eyes. No, better check the head and replace it with a can of beans, makes more sense in the end. Nevermind if the reviewer was right or not, I'm not touching this.

  • Henrik_se #382 3 years ago

    @mördarsnigel:

    Fair enough, the lower end of the scoring policy is very technical, but I think reviewers should have the freedom to sidestep it for whatever reason.

    @raff01:

    I'm still amazed that your main point is that the review is shit, not for its conclusions or score, but for a bunch of "errors" in the review, little things the reviewer couldn't figure out for himself. So I have to ask, how would it be different if the review was factually correct, but still had the same conclusion and score? The review fulfills its purpose, to tell the rest of us who are not rabid fans of hardstyle pvp that we won't like this game, that we should stay away and avoid it like the plague. Would that change?

  • seasidebaz #383 3 years ago

    I have a theory.

    A certain Mr Gillen tries out every feature of Darkfall. Gets to the point where he needs to join a clan. But oh no! All the players have proven to be idiots. What to do, what to do...

    This certain Mr Gillen decides to create his OWN clan. And to prove his time spent playing, he names it EUROGAMER NET so that it may easily be found on the server logs.

    20 minutes later Mr Gillen finishes writing his review.

    "The community for this game is so inbred that outsiders are immediately felt to feel uncomfortable. Something about the entire population declaring war against a single person is just silly. Also, the game is shit. 1/10."

  • raff01 #384 3 years ago

    @henrik

    If it was factually correct and still had the same score it would just be no logic according to the rating policy if you cared to read it.
    It would also simply mean that the reviewer hated it totally and determined the score with his emotions rather than professionally.
    Look, I hate WoW and I think it sucks balls. However if I had to review it professionnally, I would say its a good game, well designed for the casual gamer and every age, but the fact that its been made so easy to play and so accessible created a community that has a 15 y old age average and that there isn't enough challenge as well as the feeling that you need to grind up to level 70 as fast as you can because that's where all the fun is and that's also where all the players are.
    What the people here are upset about is not the fact that the reviewer didn't like the game, its the fact he is wrong aobut almost everything he states.
    its inside the review : the guy nerd raged about something that happens often in the game : its very hard when u begin, and you die often to PKers who loot all you gave yourself a hard time obtaining. But that's kind of the whole thing that makes it interesting, it can be frustrating.
    I have read Ed Zitron's review of LOTRO Moria (gave it a 9/10) and its no wonder he didn't like DF.

  • raff01 #385 3 years ago

    @ Anduz

    Unprofessionalism? why? because they defended themselves of against such a horrid unfair review? talking about unprofessionalism, a reviewer who took 2 hours to review a massive MMO, what do you call that?
    And about the community when 20 000 people are insulted by 1 asshole who thinks he holds the truth and tells all those people who play that there is something wrong with them because they like it its normal to react.

  • rushwind5 #386 3 years ago

    @Henrik
    The review IS shit for those 'little' things (as you seem to call them). Lets break this down so it makes since starting with the definition of a review of a product. Review: an opinion about a product based on facts and knowledge of said product. Now consider this review; all those 'little things' count for multiple paragraphs of the review, and when you consider a good 70% of the article at least was just opinion, those 'little things' count for a lot the reviewers supposed knowledge.

    Here's one for you to explain. The tutorial. How did he miss that? It's a box that pops up in front of you when you log it. Yet he literally claims there is no tutorial.

    Or this entire paragraph here, completely pointless, and misleading. It should not even still be up, where's the edit of this piss poor review. "As with many MMOs, you walk around using the WASD keys. However, to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode. Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive. It isn't totally clear whether this was a decision or a design oversight, as many other elements of Darkfall don't quite work."

    Or when he talks about the combat system. He doesn't act like its confusing or maybe he doesn't fully understand. Instead he claims factually that "Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect." Judging the distances is based purely on the weapon is always going to be the same each time you do it. And combat skills don't affect how often you hit. Where does he even get this info, its false, he's basing his review on the combat system off it (negating the validity of his review of the combat system at all).

    Or how about his comment about lore "Darkfall even lacks the basic lore that even the worst games have. There are wolf people, orks, humans, elves, and dark elves. There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story". The game specifically states on its website that there intentionally no central lore, part of the whole sand box thing. So where's his comment coming from, he certainly did not do his homework on the game, and instead tries to trash it for something that's not even supposed to be there.

    How about this whole paragraph "You see, anyone can kill anyone. For the most part, your first ten or so hours in Darkfall are spent dying, repeatedly, at the hands of either the AI or a cyber-bully in a wolf-suit. In fact, past that mark, it feels impossible to avoid the clammy hands and bloodied sword of somebody who has specially allocated part of their day to griefing." He said himself, that he played at most 9 hours, yet here he is ranting about gameplay after 10 hours plus.

    Nothing wrong with giving DF a 2/10. It would not be hard to write a reasonable review about the game with 2/10 being the result. But this review sucks and should be taken down, honestly stop trying to defend it.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 15:51

  • captain_Bad #387 3 years ago

    I cant believe this is still ragging on.

  • Henrik_se #388 3 years ago

    @rushwind

    Look, if the reviewer missed the tutorial, chances are that many other players also will miss the tutorial, and if they do, the tutorial is shit since it obviously doesn't do its job properly. If you were to be mature about this, you would learn from this mistake, and fix the tutorial until people stop missing it.

    If the reviewer couldn't figure out how to put his weapons in the hotbar, then chances are that man other players also won't figure this out, and if they don't, the hotbar sucks. Again, learn from the goddamn mistakes and fix them, and don't be apologetic about the parts that are shit, or rude to the people who (god forbid!!!) only want to have some fun, not spend hours figuring out an unintuitive interface,being repeatedly ganked by morons, and then having to wade through a few weeks of shit gameplay before it becomes fun.

  • rushwind5 #389 3 years ago

    "Look, if the reviewer missed the tutorial, chances are that many other players also will miss the tutorial, and if they do, the tutorial is shit since it obviously doesn't do its job properly. If you were to be mature about this, you would learn from this mistake, and fix the tutorial until people stop missing it."

    If the reviewer couldn't figure out how to put his weapons in the hotbar, then chances are that man other players also won't figure this out, and if they don't, the hotbar sucks. Again, learn from the goddamn mistakes and fix them, and don't be apologetic about the parts that are shit, or rude to the people who (god forbid!!!) only want to have some fun, not spend hours figuring out an unintuitive interface,being repeatedly ganked by morons, and then having to wade through a few weeks of shit gameplay before it becomes fun."

    So your argument is , he missed the tutorial so everyone else must have and will as well? Sorry that doesn't cut it. Ill say it again "IT POPS UP ON YOUR SCREEN" . Honestly, you're trying to defend him based off speculation?

    I didn't even mention the weapons and hotbar, thanks for bringing that one up too. Another point to the fact that he DOES NOT have a reasonable knowledge of the game and that the review is filled with misleading information.

    You haven't actually disputed any of my points provided. What is your definition of a review exactly? I tried to define it, but you ignored that. Do you agree or disagree that a review should be an opinion of a product based facts and knowledge of said product?
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 16:31

  • iokthemonkey #390 3 years ago

    Ed is an experienced games journalist. He's also - I believe - an avid MMO player. As such, he knows what a hotbar is and he knows what they're for.

    So why then, if it's so obvious and easy to use, would he deliberately draw attention to it "not being present," knowing full-well that this would be a point identified as incorrect by those playing the game? Why would he lie about features he knew were present and then publish this on a site where he knew the game's audience would correct him?

    Are you trying to say that a professional journalist would attempt to destroy his own credibility by making himself look stupid?

    If you really do believe that, then please explain why he'd do that, because I'd love to know.

  • raff01 #391 3 years ago

    only retarded players wouldn't figure how to link weapons and spells to your hotbars or how to go thru tutorial since its the 1st thing that pops up on screen right in the middle and it comes back every login untill you check the small box.
    Only a retarded player wouldn't figure how to hit something, or aim at a mob with archery or spell.
    I reckon the UI might be improved but its far from being unplayable, I let my friend play and he never played any MMO, he got used to it in matters of 1 hour.
    for some reason it seems Ed Zitron didn't want to play this game before he even touched it and his mind was already done.

  • iokthemonkey #392 3 years ago

    So then you're saying Ed Zitron is on a crusade to destroy Ed Zitron's journalistic career by deliberately writing reviews that include points he knows can be easily refuted and thus make Ed Zitron look foolish?

  • alazyguy #393 3 years ago

    Look guys! The tutorial (screen that tells you the simplest of commands)!

    Oh and hey, a hotbar on the left.. that you can drag and drop weapons and skills to.

    [link url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6 29/alazyguy/SNAG-0009-1.png?t=1241716226
    ]http://im g.photobucket.com/albums/v629/a...[/link]


    Bonus pic with UI disabled.

    http://im g.photobucket.com/albums/v629/a...

  • Sliver441 #394 3 years ago

    So then you're saying Ed Zitron is on a crusade to destroy Ed Zitron's journalistic career by deliberately writing reviews that include points he knows can be easily refuted and thus make Ed Zitron look foolish?

    @iokthemonkey

    no , we are saying that ED lied about playing the game simply as 3/4 of his article is false bullshit. it wasnt a review , he barely played the game , wrote his 2 page article and gave the final version without any more thoughts.

    its amazing how much time you lost here defending something while being TOTALLY clueless monkey, but heh , maybe you like wasting time on something you clearly know nothing about ?

    ( There is an hotbar in Darkfall , just like in wow. and if you read the first page of the tutorial , just after the movement (awsd) they suggest you that you should place your weapon in it for an easy swap. )

  • nonim99 #395 3 years ago

    @ iokmonkey

    We, who have actually played the game, know the facts.
    What annoys me is, you haven't and here you are FERVOUSLY standing behind this reviewer, bashing people who have pointed him as a poor reviewer as "angry nerd-raging forumfallerz lololol xD" when people that even don't like darkfall have come out to claim this is a poor review.

    You're biased against Darkfall and it's community, that much is clear.

  • Henrik_se #396 3 years ago

    "The interface may seem a little different than what you are used to at first"
    "The controls will become second nature after only playing for a few hours"

    The first fucking rule of interface design is that if you need to explain how your interface works, it's probably shit. If you have to preface your explanation with "it's a bit weird, but...", it's DEFINITELY shit.

  • bill #397 3 years ago

    Its been about two years since i posted on Eurogamer [im in the US], but I followed a link from evilavatar.com over to here [admittedly web drama keeps me going while at work]. So im not a Darkfall employee, DF fan and I dont play DF at all...I want to make that clear first.

    With that said, I DO play MMOs ALOT, its the only type of game ive played since WOW was released. And since then I have played WoW very indepth up to sunwell, then moved on to AoC...quit that after a month, then played WAR and am now playing EQ2. So as you can see, I know MMOs.

    And judging by your 'rebuttal' to Darkfalls' comments saying you guys havnt played it enough...well yes, they are right. By your own admission, the reviewer played it for 9 hours [least he says he did, more likely he only played 2]. There is no way someone can completely judge/review a MMO after having played only 2 or 9 hrs, especially if he was spending the time taking screenshots and making more toons. You just cant do it.

    To get a proper feel for a MMO, you need to play a single character for atleast 20 hrs imo, and play him to level him...and see more of the game. Making new characters in that time only shows you what youve already seen.

    And for a review of a MMO, your site really did lose alot of credibility. As your reviewer was being paid [atleast I hope he was] for taking the time to play, and then review this game...I dont think 20 hours or more playtime is alot to have asked of him seeing as how he had a months time to play it. Thats less than a hour logged a day.

    Just my 2c. Beyond that, EG reviews are usually topnotch, but fail at MMOs....So id reccomend mmorpg.com to anyone interested in Darkfall to see thier review on it.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 18:34

  • Henrik_se #398 3 years ago

    "( There is an hotbar in Darkfall , just like in wow. and if you read the first page of the tutorial , just after the movement (awsd) they suggest you that you should place your weapon in it for an easy swap. )"

    How quaint. Moving on to a bit more modern games, they usually place your starting skills and newly acquired skills in your hotbar for you, so that you won't miss any of them.

    I guess that's not ok for a HARDSTYLE game, I mean if you have to spend a lot of time arranging your inventory by placing your items pixel-perfectly on top of each other to create stacks, then having to place all your skills and items in your hotbar manually probably seems like a carebear vacation to you.

  • Sliver441 #399 3 years ago

    Henrik_se ...

    stop trolling , its bad for your health.

  • Ez3kiel. #400 3 years ago

    Just watching gameplay footage from Darkfall is enough to rate it 2/10.

  • mordarsnigel #401 3 years ago

    @Henrik_se

    I've come close to taking the bait, but the trolling is just a leetle bit too obvious. Feel free to keep trying though. ;-)

  • doomahx #402 3 years ago

    “how do I cast spells…..help”

    rofl

  • seasidebaz #403 3 years ago

    To get a proper feel for a MMO, you need to play a single character for atleast 20 hrs imo, and play him to level him...and see more of the game

    Problem is, there aren't any levels in this. Levels aren't "hardcore" enough.

  • unprofessional #404 3 years ago

    This whole debacle is quite appalling. What kind of supposedly professional reviewer labels players of a game "idiots" and its stockists "morons"? This is incredibly unprofessional.

    I'm an IT professional in his mid-30s who's been playing PVP games and MMOs for a combined 20+ years, I am playing Darkfall, I am really enjoying it, and rest assured I am neither an idiot nor a moron.

    If it is indeed the case that the reviewer only played the game for 2 hrs 33 mins then I'm quite confident this review could well be grounds for a civil suit for loss of income, which, given EG's size of readship and Darkfall's perenially sold-out status, could amount to quite a lot. If I were Aventurine I would be calling my lawyer right now.
    Edited by 2 at 07/05/09 @ 19:45

  • seasidebaz #405 3 years ago

    If it is indeed the case that the reviewer only played the game for 2 hrs 33 mins then I'm quite confident this review could well be grounds for a civil suit for loss of income,

    Nope. Impossible. You can't buy the game so they can't lose income.

    Apparently the demand is still so high they won't let people buy the game.

  • remonk #406 3 years ago

    @ Samcoarse

    Seems like I'm taking the bait, but it seems like using false facts is turning to be the normal between DFs critics.

    Beta leaks happened about a month or two after the the beta started, which indicates that no one could hate the game as fast as you've said. And of course the first beta leaks wheren't scathing. They were leaks, they didn't push an opinion on anyone (although you biased darkfall trolls called them biased for the game, and you had to wait a bit for a bad "preview"/leak to surface).

    Which is really indicative of the people that actualy take the time to try to diminish the game. Which for a small and not succesful game as they say is an awfuly big group.


    EDIT: Also, it's very funny when the trolls are using the word "hardcore" more than the fan.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 19:49

  • rushwind5 #407 3 years ago

    @seasidebaz
    "Nope. Impossible. You can't buy the game so they can't lose income.

    Apparently the demand is still so high they won't let people buy the game. "

    Hahah, funny... but true.

  • Sliver441 #408 3 years ago

    You guys really fails to understand anything about the economic world.

  • seasidebaz #409 3 years ago

    You guys really fails to understand anything about the economic world.

    Really? It's quite simple.

    1. Make good product, sell lots of product, make profit. SUCCESS.
    2. Make bad product, sell low volumes of product, hope to make profit. FAIL.

    I'll give you a clue. Darkfall does not fall into category 1.

  • Whitewalker #410 3 years ago

    Take this review down!!! It's a joke & a mockery, have the guts to say you've made a mistake Eurogamer & just take the bloody thing down!!!

  • Ez3kiel. #411 3 years ago

    Take this review down!!! It's a joke & a mockery, have the guts to say you've made a mistake Eurogamer & just take the bloody thing down!!!

    No, it's their duty to warn people from buying bad games.

  • Strumfex #412 3 years ago

    How can you make a review for a MMO in a few hours ? based on what ? First of all , to a normal game to make a proper review you need finish it so you can have all pieces of the puzzle . right? To an MMO things are different. You need spend time . And Ed is clearly not doing it.I have a friend working as a redactor and he usually takes around 1 week to make a review to an MMO .
    This is fair. You can not make a review unless you gather all pieces of the puzzle, if you make a review and you don`t have all these pieces , your are making a mistake.
    let me first explain the things, i played 32 days DF , i am not a great fanboy and i can tell you i can still discover things in Darkfall after 32 days. I agree only with the part of has no quets or lore. for this i give a -2 to the game . But is a pvp based game. I didn`t buy it for making quests or lore.
    Where the author is mistaking : - that they left him die on the ground 5 minutes. The author doesn`t understand the basics. If they would have ganked him they would have lost another 4 alignment for ganking him. And character is bleeding until ressurected.
    -5 seconds to take the weapon out. In hos screenshots we can see he does not even have the weapon in hotbar. no wonder he must open the inventory ,. double clik on weapon to equip that . And he is losing time .
    -inventory is a mess.Actually is not . All the darkfall players agree this is very challenging . You have free loot . that means everyone can take your loot from a gravestone.In a combat situation we all love the adrenaline rush and the fact that we actually have to take a decision fast. For example you attack a group of players kill one and the inventory opens . The victim starts screaming his freinds are coming you have to take what really has value : armour , money or weapons and go away fast.
    This is how this game was designed is not a mistake that inventory is how it is .
    Another thing not mentioned: the clans and the political struggle .Clans not exist fight for territory is inexistent . But is understandable. That takes time , and Ed is a busy person .
    Anyway i give this game a fair 7.5. And is only 2 months after they launch it. We all know MMOs are like wine , take time to reach perfection . Aventurine worked hard of this game and your article affects them in a bad way . They are making patches for the game every week fixing problems. IS true , every game has problems and DF is not perfect.

    Article is not good. And the bad thing is others take it as an example. Eurogamer please show us you have respect for others work , being a small company doesn`t mean they do not count. I really hope for a new review.
    And please don`t call the entire DF community morons , because this is what results from giving such a mark.Next time try to find a man who really understand a MMO and can spend more than 3-4 hours in a game and is capable of doing a deep analysis.

    Respect.
    Black Strumfex , Vindicators clan member.

    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 21:16

  • rushwind5 #413 3 years ago

    @anduz
    The review is filled with paragraphs of misinformation. Not just 2 little quibbles. Consider this entire paragraph about combat:

    As much as this might sound like Diablo II, Darkfall's combat is rather more similar to a Quake mod circa 1997. The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. It isn't even an issue of timing your clicks based on the connection with your sword - it's nigh-on random. Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying.

    All 4 points he makes in that paragraph are false. There is hit detection. The distance to fight in combat is not guesswork. Combat skills don't affect how often you hit. And obviously he's wrong about weapon changing. How can anyone take his combat review seriously with so many mistakes.

    Or he says the game has no tutorial , yet it automatically pops up on the screen when you log in.
    Or he says the game has no central lore , when it's not supposed to.
    etc etc

    I mean with all these mistakes it becomes obvious that he did not play the game enough to figure it out before reviewing. This is not just a negative review , its misinformative, and based off a poor understanding of the game. The review shouldn't have been published as it is.

  • doomahx #414 3 years ago

    Ez3kiel,

    It is also their duty to post the truth and to fully review the product.

    Would you take a review of a record album seriously if the person only listened to 3 of the tracks? I wouldn't

  • WJF #415 3 years ago

    'And for a review of a MMO, your site really did lose alot of credibility. As your reviewer was being paid [atleast I hope he was] for taking the time to play, and then review this game...I dont think 20 hours or more playtime is alot to have asked of him seeing as how he had a months time to play it. Thats less than a hour logged a day. '

    Hi Bill,

    Wellll, it's a tricky issue this. I usually give MMORPGs a few hours before deciding if they're any good because I just don't have 24 hours in the day to play games. If a game can't hook you, interest you within an hour or two, I don't see the point it continuing to waste my time on it for another few hours. Imho - games are entertainment. If it's not entertaining, I don't play it.

    Of course, having to stump up a large sum of cash having been forced to wait for week because they can't sell their product properly (imo, of course) may 'encourage' the customer to 'overlook' those first wasted couple of hours/days/weeks of boredom, frustration and anger, otherwise they might feel like they've been ripped off...

  • Strumfex #416 3 years ago

    WJF if you don`t have the time to play MMOs we understand . Really. But don`t try to judge them . Just say : these games are not for me and walk away.
    Because you can`t judge a MMO not even in 2 days...let`s not talk about 3 hours.

  • WJF #417 3 years ago

    Well, I'd better tell my GW guild I'm packing it up then. Good call, Strumfex!

  • levitate #418 3 years ago

    @Strumfex:

    That's bullshit. When I tried Vanguard I didn't need days or weeks to cast my judgment upon it. 4-5 hours was more than enough. Then again, I'm not a journalist or game reviewer.

    It's a shit game btw.

  • bill #419 3 years ago

    To get a proper feel for a MMO, you need to play a single character for atleast 20 hrs imo, and play him to level him...and see more of the game

    Problem is, there aren't any levels in this. Levels aren't "hardcore" enough.

    I didnt know that. Still though, whether its 2 hrs or 9 hrs, its to little time played to call what was posted on eurogamer a 'review'. MMOs are time sinks and the first few hours dont represent a whole game at all, unlike other genres [fps's, racing game etc].

    20hrs atleast of real time played and not making different characters or taking screenshots is whats needed to see the game as it is. And like I said im not a Darkfall player or fanboy but would like to see a more professional take on the game, since eurogamer usually does have good reviews that are reliable. Just expected more out of EG. hopefully the second review is done seriously unlike the first one.

    just my neutral 2c on the issue !!
    Edited by 2 at 07/05/09 @ 21:54

  • bill #420 3 years ago

    That's bullshit. When I tried Vanguard I didn't need days or weeks to cast my judgment upon it. 4-5 hours was more than enough. Then again, I'm not a journalist or game reviewer.

    It's a shit game btw.


    Exactly, were all entitled to our opinions, however a game reviewer is expected to put the nessacery time into a game to see what its all about...were not expected to...we buy the games, were not reviewing them. And that is the issue here. It may be a shit game, but for a game reviewer to only put 2 hrs into the game really hurts this sites credibility since its thier job to put time into it whether it sucks or not. What other games were played for 15min, or 2 hrs??

    If the reviewer played it enough to know even the most basic details [which sounds like he didnt] I doubt there would be 800+ posts about this games review here.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 22:00

  • Strumfex #421 3 years ago

    levitate i don`t know Vanguard. yes , sometimes some games are so awfull you can`t play them . But that`s not darkfall . Has his part of politics , like Eve , a wonderfull loot system , a world full of dangers when u exit out of towns and at the same time full of beauty.Are some trash games which we all agree are trash and nobody comments , and are games that for certain reasons the sites make them look like a trash . is a major difference.
    If you want an example we can show Mount and Blade , Has one of the most realistic combat systems , mounted combat and they said is a shit. but is not.
    And the proof DF is not a shit is just because a lot of people come here sreaming and telling their point. If was a shit and the article was right , we won`t have a problem , right?
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/09 @ 22:00

  • bill #422 3 years ago

    Wellll, it's a tricky issue this. I usually give MMORPGs a few hours before deciding if they're any good because I just don't have 24 hours in the day to play games. If a game can't hook you, interest you within an hour or two, I don't see the point it continuing to waste my time on it for another few hours. Imho - games are entertainment. If it's not entertaining, I don't play it.

    Of course, having to stump up a large sum of cash having been forced to wait for week because they can't sell their product properly (imo, of course) may 'encourage' the customer to 'overlook' those first wasted couple of hours/days/weeks of boredom, frustration and anger, otherwise they might feel like they've been ripped off...


    im the same way, if it sucks i dont play it. Its just for a game site, they have to bite the bullet and sink time into it. its expected.its thier job. so my 20hr comment for a mmo was directed to reviewers of them. obviously, this game was a case of 'it sucks' after a 2 hr session by the reviewer. good for him, bad for those who want a thorough and bloody honest review from a video game website.

    Anyways, I feel like im repeating myself at this point [made 2 other similar posts already], so gl and hope to see the next review hit up on some other issues that should have been there...such as game performance for one. What type of pc is reccomended, how crash prone is the game etc.

  • raff01 #423 3 years ago

    to all who think Ed Zitron is not a biased retarded player :

    The evidence: The reviewer’s supervisor and MMO Editor for Eurogamer spent 2 minutes in the character creator but didn’t create a character. Ed Zitron spent 2 hours 33 minutes logged in the game and the character creator. In this time the reviewer tried 9 different characters. Much of the time was spent creating and deleting these characters. 14 minutes before the reviewer stopped playing Darkfall altogether he said in global chat: “how do I cast spells…..help”. During his entire time in the game he repeatedly asks: “what do I do?” in public chat. After less than an hour logged in the game he speaks in race chat and says “this game is awful” His entire chat log shows someone biased that spent very little time in game, didn’t understand even the very basics right before he stopped playing to write his review. We offered to pay to fly one of Eurogamer’s IT people over here and cover all his expenses so he can also inspect all our logs, verify our claims, and see that they are practically impossible to doctor. Eurogamer refused.


    yup this has been witnessed in game and is all logged, the reviewer didnt even know how to cast a fucking spell ! he was clueless about what to do...so wether he is mentally challenged, or he simply had already in mind to rate this game a 2/10

  • Luiso #424 3 years ago

    [link url=http://digg.com/g aming_news/Eurogamer_reviews_Darkfall_Online_without_playing _the_game?FC=PRCS0
    ]http://di gg.com/gaming_news/Eurogamer_re...[/link]

    Time will put Eurofakers and Ed in the place they deserve.

    Just a matter of time.

  • hangnail #425 3 years ago

    Ok I am sorry, I am trying to read what this blog entry and take it seriously while at the same time having the entire webpage covered in adds for some game that quite frankly look like hyper fantasy anima gone wrong. So I am sorry I simply can concentrate long enough to take this site very seriously.

    In fact, the post your remarks page is worse, its like 100% adds and a little textbox I am surprised they don’t have popups every 10 seconds as well.

    I dont see how its possible for this site to be non biased its ridiculioous

  • SeaNoEvil #426 3 years ago

    Tasos' has written more about this review that he has about the development of the game in the past month! The developers of this game needed a fire litten underneath them and this review was that fire. It is really quite telling of the community of the game to see such a furied backlash. The game will continue to be a redundant pseudo-sandbox MMO without any criticism. The game is boring in its current state, and the recent patches haven't helped much either.

  • seasidebaz #427 3 years ago

    You know what, I'm not racist but fuck off back to goblin land. When the new review goes up, come back then.

  • Henrik_se #428 3 years ago

    @luiso:

    Oh wow, the nerdrage has now reached Digg, oh noes, what ever shall EG do?!? There's gonna be so many digg readers that are gonna come here and.. wait.. no.. they'll read the scathing review of the game in the Digg comments and not bother to show up for this trollfest.

  • WJF #429 3 years ago

    I still don't see the point of this anger. The review was inaccurate. Ok. But the score seems to be agreed on by most (maybe not the really raving fanboys) posters on other sites that have played the game. So what are you lot expecting the second review to do? Highlight the ACTUAL game-breaking faults and say, once again, don't bother with this game? That's what's going to happen, you know that don't you?

    @bill

    Fair enough, I'll agree with you there (although you repeated yourself :-D)

  • headtrip #430 3 years ago

    Wow, this site is run by idiots. I'll never trust any of the incompetent people that work here when Tom Bramwell is as crooked or as stupid as the Ed Zitron. Way to destroy your credibility on a fairly large scale.

  • WJF #431 3 years ago

    'I'll never trust any of the incompetent people that work here when Tom Bramwell is as crooked or as stupid as the Ed Zitron'

    Just to clarify an earlier post - anyone posting 'I wont be visiting again', 'I can't trust EG ever again' etc. and have made a new account just to say it are kinda shooting themselves in the foot. You want to know why?

    PRE PATCH HITS, BABY! Haaardstyle. Word.

  • Arnfiarnunn #432 3 years ago

    [link url=http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=185733
    ]http://fo rums.darkfallonline.com/showthr...[/link]

    Pwn Ed, the fake journalist. you a shame for the profession.

  • WJF #433 3 years ago

    Oh dear that doesn't reflect well on....

    Darkfall.

    I mean, if the developer was actually annoyed that their game didn't get a fair review, they'd be wanting a fair review. Right? So is he going to submit it to another website now? Of course not.

  • Arnfiarnunn #434 3 years ago

    Other site gave pretty nice review, this review is almost the exact opposite.

  • Henrik_se #435 3 years ago

    From the developer newspost:

    "but in the meanwhile we‘re taking irreparable damage and there’s simply nothing we can do about it."

    Funny, I would assume that actually fixing the game would mitigate the damage caused by the game being shit?

  • WJF #436 3 years ago

    'Other site gave pretty nice review, this review is almost the exact opposite.'

    I presume you're talking about the opinion piece in mmorpg.com? The one the members of staff explicitly stated was NOT a review and was an opinion piece from a DF subscriber, and yet a lot of DF fanboys went on their forums claiming it was a great review? Yup, pretty substantial review that one. Review.

    Edits: Just wanted to add the word review a few more times
    Edited by 2 at 07/05/09 @ 23:57

  • rashy #437 3 years ago

    its all pretty LOL sad, Df is a game with potential and HUGE issues... it deserves a decent review though even if that review says it is poor or just plain crap.
    Eurogamer have failed massively in my eyes at least, as for Darkfall only time will see if it turns into the game id 'could' be.

    Either way it is a pretty shameful affair both for eurogamer and AV.

    If Eurogamer had credibility they would withdraw the review and go for the second review, the fact they are preared to stand by a factually inaccurate review, and have not commented further on the logs, Ed's repuation, or indeed comments made about the chat logs make me think that the eurogamer site is now milking this for the traffic it is bringing to their site.

    EurogamerMMO = Eurofail,
    mmorpg.com for me will be a site I use for mmo reviews as eurogamer appear non credible.. and yes you can all scream fanbois and all the rest of it... but the fact remains, eurogamer support a review that is inaccurate and have not been able to respond to the logs (and offer by AV of a eurogamer techie inspection of the logs) in any manner.
    AV are now saying a re-review is irrelevant whilst the original review is on the site.. so we have a deadlock.
    Its a shame really, darkfall is a game that has problems, an atrocious launch and now this. BUT it is a game with a LOT of potential more than I have seen in recent years. Any that maybe interested in it should look to mmorpg.com for reviews or game blogs, comments and moniter the game closely, I would not leap in and buy it but also I would not write it off either unlike the eurogamer site which to me is no better than a rag in the gutter. EUROGAMER = FAIL
    Edited by 2 at 08/05/09 @ 00:07

  • Bremenacht #438 3 years ago

    I agree. We should close our EG accounts in protest at this travesty of justice, and declare wars on Eurogamer.
    You first.

  • rashy #439 3 years ago

    Glad you agree. This account will gather dust hope yours does the same.

  • knifo #440 3 years ago

    I will give Eurogamer one more shot to be profesional.

    The next review better be honest and list all of darkfalls features and systems or they will never have my support in any of my future endeavors. As a producer in the game industry I am very much disgusted at this Ed person who claims to have played the game.

    The whole thing is a hissy fit from someone who couldnt stand dieing and losing the whole time.

  • Bremenacht #441 3 years ago

    Very generous of you, sir. They need all the support they can get.

  • samcoarse #442 3 years ago

    @ remonk, that's quite a vague, logic ignoring and baseless observation you made. If you read the leaks on various leak sites and the ones who's authors couldn't be bothered posting in anonymity and just blurted what they felt onto the general forum on forumfall. Some were filled with aggression and disgust, you however seem to have repressed those, perhaps denial. Some took weeks to form their opinion like I said, some took days, I'm sure I could dig up a few to prove a point but as at the end of my post says you are infected, self-incubating, meant to be left alone..etc etc .. point being yes they are there, and yes they happened sooner than you think..

  • holden #443 3 years ago

    regardless of whether or not the game is a pile of crap,2 hours or even 9 hours is not long enough to write a review on ANY mmo.


  • Henrik_se #444 3 years ago

    "And the proof DF is not a shit is just because a lot of people come here sreaming and telling their point."

    Comedy gold.

    Well, that settles it then. The darkfall loyalists are loud, therefore they are right, and the game is in fact 8/10, better than Halo. I'm glad we got that sorted, I mean we can't have differing viewpoints on the internet, right, right?

  • Henrik_se #445 3 years ago

    "The whole thing is a hissy fit from someone who couldnt stand dieing and losing the whole time."

    No, the whole thing is a hissy fit from retarded fans and developers who can't stand someone rightfully slagging their beloved game.

  • Arnfiarnunn #446 3 years ago

    Totaly agree with anduz we should pay you to train mister ED, he need it lol!

  • seasidebaz #447 3 years ago

    A horse is a horse of course of course

  • iokthemonkey #448 3 years ago

    Look guys! The tutorial (screen that tells you the simplest of commands)!

    Oh and hey, a hotbar on the left.. that you can drag and drop weapons and skills to.




    That's a hotbar? Sorry, I was confused for a moment, as - judging by that screenshot - I'd travelled back to 1992.

    no , we are saying that ED lied about playing the game simply as 3/4 of his article is false bullshit. it wasnt a review , he barely played the game , wrote his 2 page article and gave the final version without any more thoughts.

    Why would he lie? What is his reason for writing a review that could so easily be picked apart? Are you saying he deliberately set himself up to look stupid? Come on, I'm waiting for an answer that doesn't involve some STFU CAERBARE gankywanky rage.

    And I have no bias (ooh, that word again!) against the Darkfall community. I just find you by turns hilarious and tragic.

    I should thank the devs for Darkfall though, as I've had hours of fun from it. Not the game. Laughing at these HARDCORE fanboys pissing their panties over a review on a site 90% of you probably hadn't even heard of until now.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 11:40

  • iokthemonkey #449 3 years ago

    Newly created account for the sole purpose on posting on this article. Will cancell account afterwards, as no sense in supporting an incompetent company lacking in moral fiber.

    I have myself played Darkfall online, not playing much at all right now as I got a family extension and that takes preceedence over anything online.

    Not gonna argue with most of the trolls here, will just lend my support in the outcry against Eurogamer. It is obvious to anyone having played the game that the reviewer never botherered to play the game more than a few hours. He obviously havent bothered to read the help manual you can access either in game or on the net. and he most definetly didn't bother to understand what type of game he started to review.

    Due to the total lack of professionalism by the reviewer that alone should give all you guys pause as to why you use this site. It obviously appears more concerned about covering their a** than in securing their integrity, so why read on this site as many other sites are much more accurate in their reviews.

    We can all argue whether or not what he states are correct. I personally think his review is fairly accurate based on spending 2 hours in game. There is quite a few technical problems in the game still. They are also getting fixed. He is also correct in much of what he describes in terms of gameplay, but as allready stated in previous mails, most of these items are actually supposed to be that way. You may like it or you may not, but don't review a game based on another set of standards. If you want to review a pvp game then review it according to standards relevant to that genre not accroding to hello kitty or WOW, as it is another genre.

    In closing, ask yourself. If you want a MMO game, where you can develop your character, yet still have PVP and Large battles, what other options do you have? Personally I don't see any other games comming within leagues of DF online.
    I like the ability to kill anyone, full loot, go explore without invisible walls, be able to fight against also much developed chars, with a chance to win and so on. I don't get that in any other game.

    Anyway, first and last post, will delete char, as this website is junk, and will propagate this on all other forums. They deserve to be called out for their lack of integrity, and if no integrity in a gamereview site, why on earth use it.

    -----

    Delete your "character" and your post will be lost forever.

    ONOES!

  • seasidebaz #450 3 years ago

    If you want a MMO game, where you can develop your character, yet still have PVP and Large battles, what other options do you have?

    Well, MAG's coming out on PS3 at some point. That should be better.

    Also, Halo 3's Big Team Battles are quite special. But they contain about the same number of idiots as Darkfall.

    CoD4 if you really must have a PC game.

  • seasidebaz #451 3 years ago

    There is no games out there right now that is a MMO with char development and large scale battles

    But there flaming well are! CoD4 has character development! It has large scale battles! And the amount of online activity is pretty MASSIVE. And it's MULTIPLAYER.

    So what if it isn't fantasy. It's more fun than Darkfall though. Hence the higher score.

  • iokthemonkey #452 3 years ago

    Games with PvP "core" content:

    EVE Online
    Warhammer
    Age of Conan
    Chronicles of Spellborn
    Dark Ages of Camelot
    Lineage 2

    And don't worry, I'll go back and edit my post later. :)

  • Henrik_se #453 3 years ago

    Garbage333, did you just post two comments, despite the fact that you stated in your first comment that it was also going to be your last?

    Your comment has a FACTUAL ERROR in it, therefore it is a disgrace to comment threads all over the internet, and you should pull it immediately so that the integrity of this comment thread will be restored. After all, the least you can expect from professional comment thread posters is that they stick to the facts and don't make up shit as they go. After all, what would the world look like if people could write whatever they wanted on the internet?!?

  • Sliver441 #454 3 years ago

    iokthemonkey and henrik_se are 2 pointless troll guys ; dont feed them.

    it is really clear by now that Ed Zitronus is a joke , and this whole article too.

    it's also very amusing to see so much trolls reunited here , spitting tons of bullshit on a game they never played and have absolutly no fucking clue about. you guys must be very bored :*(

  • seasidebaz #455 3 years ago

    you guys must be very bored :*(

    How can I resist.... Must..... Not............. Respond.............................

    Shit......... Can't stop myself...........

    I think YOU'RE the one who's bored seeing as the entire Darkfall community finds posting on here more fun than the game itself. Trouble with having no content: there's nothing to do when nobody's online.

  • iokthemonkey #456 3 years ago

    Temper, temper.

    We're having a reasoned debate. You and the Darkfall players were the ones posting videos of virtual death threats and declaring WAR on Eurogamer. We're just trying to explain to you that not everybody likes your game (which is something YOU keep telling us then ignoring when it comes to the review) and trying to make you realise that Ed's review may well contain mistakes but it's not the malicious conspiracy you think it is.

    So why not suck it up, grow a pair and think, "Yeah, he's a dick and all his review proves is that we Darkfall players are HARDSTYLE PVP KINGS OF THE INTERNET" then sod-off back to your damp little grotholes to see who can run over to another sweaty little virgin and click their mouse button the fastes - I mean, "engage in brutal PvP" to prove yourself a TRUE INTERNET WARRIOR!

    RAR!

  • Jexel #457 3 years ago

    I have been following the "controversy" here at your site as well as on the Darkfall forums.

    Let me tell you a little about myself to create a frame of reference for my opinions.

    I am 41 years old and I work in Training and Support for a major University. I have been playing computer games for over 25 years and in my years of gaming I have been a hardcore MMO player. My first graphical MMO was Neverwinter Nights on AOL which was a 2D turn-based role-playing game. Since then I have played Everquest 1 and 2, Diablo, WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Eve Online, Tabula Rasa and more. I also have played a few Real-time strategy and first person shooters.

    If your organization honestly thinks that you can properly review a game with the uniqueness of Darkfall in (going with your numbers) 9 hours of playtime, then in my opinion your approach is fundamentally flawed. The developers at Aventurine have gone to great lengths to combine two different genre play styles and in doing so have created something truly unique.

    This, in my opinion, is the fundamental problem with Ed Zitron’s review. There was ZERO attempt to intellectually grasp what is different about Darkfall compared to other online games.

    I think what Aventurine is trying to accomplish with this game is to have a truly skill-based game. The primary focus of the game is to "highlight" the individual player’s skill at the controls. This is the point of the first-person shooter style of combat. There have been games that have attempted this before, but it is tricky.

    Continuing with the player-skill based approach; Aventurine created a truly individualized character development system. Everyone starts with the same available skills and the player chooses where to focus his/her effort.

    So, to combine these 2 fundamental principles of the game, Aventurine created the current interface used for Darkfall.
    I mentioned my experience in computer gaming. The overwhelming majority of the time, I can learn the interface of a game with little effort. This is because if I am playing a MMORPG, then there is an "accepted" interface design. If I am playing a first-person shooter, then there is a "typical" interface for this style of game play as well.

    I am 2 weeks into playing Darkfall and I would say sometimes I still struggle with it. That being said, with refinements by the developers along with me as a player gaining experience using the Darkfall interface the interface will allow me to accomplish what I see as the primary goals of the game. Skill based combat character development. Again, when I read the review of Darkfall, HIS NAME HERE made no attempt to understand or present this concept.

    Is the game polished? No it is not. But 90% of all online games are released with the same types of problems a player will run into when playing Darkfall. This is Aventurine has used a staggered release to the game.

    Look, this is not your mother's role playing game. This is hard core PLAYER-VS-PLAYER combat. Throw the city building, political alliance system in the mix and you have the beginnings of a robust gaming system. There was also very little mention in the review of the vast harvesting and crafting system.

    If you are looking for another WoW or EQ2 then Darkfall is not the game for you. But if you are looking for something different in a gaming experience then give the Darkfall a try.

    I ask Ed Zitron and everyone at Eurogamer.net. If you can truly look yourselves in the mirror and say that you took the time to truly evaluate Darkfall, then I think you would be lying to yourselves. This isn’t a 2 or 3 hour movie it’s an original approach to online gaming.

    I will close with this quote from Ed’s review, “Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still…” Ed, have you ever used auto-run in a game before?

    Just to set the record straight, you right-click to enter the combat side of the interface and then you point your character in the direction you want start moving and hit the Num Lock key. While moving, you right-click again to enter the character management side of the interface (your still moving mind you.) For example, you can drag an item from your backpack to your hotbar to set a hotkey. Next, just right-click again to get back into the combat mode. This whole process takes 10 seconds.. maybe?

    Dude, do your research.

    jexel@magicalbox.com
    Edited by 2 at 08/05/09 @ 15:12

  • iokthemonkey #458 3 years ago

    2/10

  • rushwind5 #459 3 years ago

    "Look, this is not your mother's role playing game. This is hard core PLAYER-VS-PLAYER combat."

    Oh great, you used hardcore. Now we'll see 3 pages of EGers throwing it back at us. /popcorn

  • Lemming81 #460 3 years ago

    Ed's also reviewed the game in the latest issue of PC Zone, where he primarily works. It received 17%. Due to the nature of print mags, it's very likely this was written before the EG piece. I wonder if the further 8 hours or whatever he claims were played on PCZ's press account rather than EG's?


    What say the DF fanboys? More importantly, how about those devs of your's posting the PCZ press account logs?
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 15:35

  • Abundis #461 3 years ago

    I have not played DF Online, nor had I any intentions of doing so until I read the aftermath of the review, if the game is better than 2/10 then Eurogamer looses all credability they have, imo, just look at the 100's of replies from the 1st review, people count on that when they read a review of a game, that the person behind the review has played it more than a couple of hours.

    There are factual errors in the review, how come?

    And why give a reviewer who has only at 1 time before written a review of an expansion of Lotr ( http://ww w.eurogamer.net/archive.php?aut... ) a go on something that is supposed to be the biggest mmorpg ever, he is not a perfect candidate for the job, is he?

    How many hours in game did the reviewers on Ages of Conan, Lotr, WoW and WAR do, I wonder?

    Less or more?



  • dfosmith #462 3 years ago

    This review is fraudulent. Ed Zitron is not a jopurnalist. He is a hack. Journalists investigate, gather information, and report it. Mr. Zitron obviously did not play the game, but instead just wandered arounf like a moron for 30 minutes and wrote his "expert" review. Eurogamer should be ashamed for standing by such shoddy journalism. If you want a competenmt review, you must employ a competent reviewer. The fact that Mr. Zitron didn't even bother to read anything at all about the GUI explains half the things he claims are bugs.

    Duh, ED...if you press the wrong key your UI might disappear.

    Duh, Ed...if you press the key that brings up MAP a big map might pop up in your face!

    Eurogamer put up a fraudulent review by an incompetent reviewer. Standing by that review indicates an even greater lack of ethics and credibility than having Ed write reviews in the first place.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 15:57

  • Henrik_se #463 3 years ago

    "something that is supposed to be the biggest mmorpg ever"

    Wait, you're talking about Darkfall now, right? I find it pretty telling that all the recent MMORPGs that wanted to go back to the roots and be difficult and frustrating by design are massive failures. Wow has clearly showed that the market for a "carebear" game, one with as little penalty as possible for mistakes and as much accessibility as possible is much, much, much, much larger than the market for "hardcore" games with harsh penalties for mistakes and "open pvp" and whatnot.

    There's a small group of nostalgic die-hards that are willing to put up with all the frustrations of Darkfall and similar, simply so that they can visit that same frustration on someone else by ganking them, but this group ain't getting bigger, and marketing your game towards this group ensures that you will never be more than a niche game.

    It's absolutely hilarious though that members of this group think that their view of the perfect game is shared by millions. :-D

  • Lemming81 #464 3 years ago

    @Abundis: "a go on something that is supposed to be the biggest mmorpg ever,"

    Only in the eyes of its players. I'm betting most people didn't even know the game existed until this controversy. This is Dark and Light all over again, tbh.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 15:56

  • Sliver441 #465 3 years ago

    Henrik_se *TROLL ALERT TROLL ALERT TROLL ALERT*

    So much assumptions for a sad troll post. ;-;

    *EDIT*@lemming81

    it's very far from being like dark&light , and it just prove how much clueless you are on the subject.

    stop taking 1 sentence out of its context to spit your assumptions , you are just looking like a troll now. ;-;
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 16:00

  • Abundis #466 3 years ago

    @Lemming81

    Actually on most gaming communities there has for over a year been game ads for Darkfall online, alot of players, me included has for a long time known that a game with that name is under development, just as a lot of players know about Stargate Worlds, AION and other less highlighted games, but for a game to be interesting, one look 1st and foremost for the commentaries from those friends who BETA test it and also for the reviews.

    The problem in this case, is that I do not know anyone who is in beta, so I go look here for reviews, what I expect and I guess alot of others do aswell, is that Eurogamer test a game properly and do not write something taken out from the blue, because there are better things to do with their time.

    I wouldnt have replied if Ed Zitron had done his job - clearly he has not, or do you disagre on that?
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 16:08

  • Thornmisfor #467 3 years ago

    how do i cast spells... help

  • Lemming81 #468 3 years ago

    @Abundis: "
    I wouldnt have replied if Ed Zitron had done his job - clearly he has not, or do you disagre on that?"

    We've got one's word against the other over what is actually true and what isn't. And at this point I'm more inclined to believe an impartial games journalist over the developer of the game in question. Server logs just add something to rally behind for the DF-flag waving crowd, but they aren't evidence. How can they be?

  • Thornmisfor #469 3 years ago

    @Lemming81

    how do i cast spells... help

  • seasidebaz #470 3 years ago

    Oh great, you used hardcore. Now we'll see 3 pages of EGers throwing it back at us. /popcorn

    See, that's the spirit! I can see we're rubbing off on you, why not pull up a chair and settle in for a bit?

    :D

  • Sliver441 #471 3 years ago

    @lemming81

    Again ... comming from a totally clueless person that dont understand anything.

    It has been stated numerous times in these comments that ED written enormous critical errors in his article , here's some exemples ;

    1 - "Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still"
    -ANSWER- No , you dont have to stop still , it's basicly like in any other mmo i played. ( TIP;Use autorun. )

    2 -"Worse still, the entire economy is player-driven - meaning that anybody wanting to get involved in crafting has literally hours of harvesting wood, or rock, or any of the other generic resources."
    -ANSWER- No , it's false. like in any other MMORPG you can trade or buy ressources ,,, without having to harvest ever in your gaming life.

    3 -"You have a crosshair, and your hits are dependent on whether or not this crosses the enemy at any given time - like an FPS, except with little to no reference point."
    -ANSWER- The crosshair is not only there to look good on your screen mate ... THATS YOUR POINT OF REFERENCE.

    4 -"The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible,"
    -ANSWER- When you miss , you hear a sword swinging in thin air. when you hit , you hear someone screaming of pain and bloods spills around. i dont understand what he is asking for here really , but for me and everyone i know , its never been a problem.

    5- "Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

    -ANSWER- No , the skill level have nothing to do with how you connect , it's false simply. and yes , i understand that it must be very hard for you to judge the distance of your opponent in a game where you need to aim when you dont understand the concept of a crosshair, ( see above. )

    6- "This may be attributed to the lack of rhyme or reason to the world, which verges on random placement of flora with little in the way of lore to tie it together. It may also be tied to the fact that there's very little to see."

    -ANSWER- Kinda hard to see the world when you only been in the starters area and that you barely played 2 hour.( NOTE ; Darkfall world size is probably similar to Morrowind's world. )

    When 80% of an text is only but lies and errors , i really wonder why it is still considered as an article. for me its just a text full of bullshit written by an incompetent.
    Edited by 3 at 08/05/09 @ 16:52

  • seasidebaz #472 3 years ago

    Sliver441 wrote:
    stop taking sex to ass, you are just looking now. ;-;

    Now THAT's how to take a single sentence in the wrong context.

  • rushwind5 #473 3 years ago

    @Lemming81
    As long as we're rehashing here, my personal favorite is the tutorial. There's really nothing to believe or not believe there. It is what it is. There is a tutorial , he says there isn't. Why'd say he say that? Who knows!

  • Thrice23 #474 3 years ago

    first off, what kind of gaming site reviews a game after playing it for 3 hours, or to that matter 9 like jackass went and said... thats pathetic and you guys are terrible, i know youll probably delete this to protect yourself from others reading this and you losing fan base from it but you guys damn sure should. How easy can a job be where you play games and write reviews first off? sounds pretty simple, but you have this dumbass guy asking how do i do this, what do i do, i cant attack i cant pull out my weapon, push some friggin buttons genious! I wish I lived in europe so i could give this guy a american beat down. I dont know maybe playing video games requires a college degree for some people. learn how to play a game before you ever give it a review you assclown.

  • iokthemonkey #475 3 years ago

  • Henrik_se #476 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey:

    You have to press "F" before you can write your comment and click the submit button.

  • Oldern #477 3 years ago

    No offense, but when playing demos / free trials / free to play MMORPG-s other than WoW, i sometimes too felt that after throwing up (10 mins), creating a character (10-20 mins?) and starting the game, playing the first few levels are WAY MORE than enough.

    I am not saying that 2 hours for an MMO should be enough (or 10, for that matter), but from a reviewer standpoint, you cant ever be comprehensive enough when testing an MMO - because if you score too low, the developers (and defender players) have always can point out "that is not enough. play with it more".

    So if the other reviewer backs up the first 2/10 score, it only means that the game's quality can be seen with little investment - even if it seems a little harsh. Should it be more along the 5-6 line (which means "if you like the style, then feel free jump in";), then it will mean Ed has been wrong.

  • Oldern #478 3 years ago

    Oh, and to all questioning Eurogamer's integrity on this matter (especially considering future growth for MMO's): look around and read all that Re-reviews they have been putting up...

  • unprofessional #479 3 years ago

    for one thing the mmorpg.com reviewer clearly spent TIME PLAYING THE GAME, something mr zitron did not.

    i looked up ed zitron after reading his appallingly amateur review, did you people know he's only 23 years old? this means he would have been 12 when the first MMO(s) came out.

    i'm not sure this guy can even be considered an experienced gamer let alone an experienced journalist who freely uses terms such as "idiots" and "morons" in a review (any review), let alone multiple factual errors about the game.

    following in Ed's footsteps, this has been my first experience with EG and i declare it to be entirely lacking in journalistic integrity that they would a) employ someone so clearly inexperienced to review games of this genre, and then b) to defend said writer despite the quality of writing in said review being only a fraction above the intellect-free hate posts one can find in this very comments page.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/09 @ 18:49

  • makeamazing #480 3 years ago

    The main problem with MMOs is that due to most of them having very poor documentation (Ultima Online being one of the exceptions), you spend the first couple of weeks trying to figure out what to do.

    So I would say 9 hours is not bad, but maybe not enough.

    Now of course there are a couple of issues here, first, if the guy didnt really play the game and is just covering up, then thats obviously bad for EG and the guy probably shouldnt be writing reviews (not saying this is the case but ive known people to cheat their job and be caught out and then deny it), if they believe him and they think the Darkfall developers are wrong, then they should stand by their review (which I guess they are doing as they havent removed it).

    If the developers are lieing, then shame on them for making a big stink on this. I also dont think it needs lots of new users coming on here to register their anger. I'm sure the developers have done that themselves. The thing is doesnt matter what the review was, I wasnt going to play it anyway, so big arguments wont change my mind anyway (and I am sure I wont be the only one).

  • seasidebaz #481 3 years ago

    for one thing the mmorpg.com reviewer clearly spent TIME PLAYING THE GAME, something mr zitron did not.

    I thought we already established that there is no mmorpg.com review.

  • makeamazing #482 3 years ago

    Oh there was one other thing, the game creators are saying that the reviewer should play the game for 100 hours, I think that is absolute rubbish really. Reviewers dont have time to spend 100 hours on a single game. Now maybe 20 hours is more reasonable to get a clear indication if a game is ok or not. To be honest most game players give games alot less time than that, even MMOs.

  • raff01 #483 3 years ago

    its in the logs, Ed Zitron didn't know how to CAST A SPELL ! 2 answers to that :
    1 - he is mentally challenged
    2 - he had already decided this game was crap before he even tried testing it.

    In both cases, he shouldn't have done a review.

  • seasidebaz #484 3 years ago

    WE. HEARD. YOU. THE. FIRST. TIME.

  • Bremenacht #485 3 years ago

    Actually, it's not in the logs, because there are no logs. It's just more guff from your silly Dork overlord.

  • MightyMouse #486 3 years ago

    After 100 hours you might well develop Stockholm syndrome, but that doesn't mean that DF is a good game.

  • Sliver441 #487 3 years ago

    and that doesnt mean that all the clueless trolls here are right either. one side actually know what they are talking about while the others are just sad trolls that defend something they know nothing about. ( or you guys are really just trolling;-; )

  • #488 3 years ago

    Hey moron! Ed zitron has a reputation of rating quality niche games as worthless. He did this exact same thing with Roma Victor for example. He is a worthless troll who is willing to destroy people's games just to get views. He is a disgrace and you should ban him from your website before he rapes your reputation any more.

  • #489 3 years ago

    [link url=http://g.imagehost.org/ 0942/EdZitron.jpg
    ]http://g.imagehost.org/ 0942/EdZitron.jpg
    [/link]


    All fap to ed's cute girlfriend

  • floppylobster #490 3 years ago

    Just add the amount of time played the game to every review. I think as gamers we all understand you can't devote 50 hours to a game you're not enjoying. And if you've played it for 4 hours and aren't enjoying it then you have every right to rate it poorly. I wouldn't sit through more than an hour of a bad movie. Just be completely transparent about it and nobody can complain.

    4/10 after 2 hours
    3/10 after 3 hours
    Stopped playing after 9 hours - 2/10

  • George-Roper #491 3 years ago

    @Sliver441

    a mmo that took 8 years to develop cant be reviewed under at least 50 hours.

    The massive flaw in your logic is that Darkfall didn't take 8 years to develop because it was full to the brim with new and exciting content.

    It took 8 years to develop because the development team was tiny and there wasn't the funding available to get it done quicker. Simple as that.

    So, you'd have the reviewer spend an entire week doing nothing except running around barren landscapes, repeating the same PvP over and over again, because it took 8 years to develop?

    Utter nonsense.

  • Lea #492 3 years ago

    Well, Aventurine accomplished one thing for sure: they got everyone and their dog to talk about Darkfall...

    [link url=http://www.massively.com/2009/05/08/how-exa ctly-do-you-review-an-mmo/
    ]http://ww w.massively.com/2009/05/08/how-...[/link]

  • Disastorm #493 3 years ago

    who wants to bet that if their new review has a good score, all the darkfall haters will be saying how bad eurogamer is?

  • aspect #494 3 years ago

    If Darkfall is so great.Why dont Taos the whine ass put it up for 14 days Trial? He cant! He dose not have enough cash or the SERVERS to do so.Tasos depends on players for his gaming market.He is to broke to afford any type of marketing or a Marketing Manager..Eurogamer was his biggest hope to draw more fan base..What he should a done is give Zit money in his hands to get a higher rating..I mean why not IGN does that pretty well..They give ANY GAME a good rating as long there hands are greased..Well Taos; Sorry to say but Darkfall does suxs and ZIT hit the nail on the head with his Review..Be like a Man that you are and shut up and go back and POLISH Darkfall like it should be..This time take another 8 years and try not to lie to your fan base..I hate developers who lie to there Fan base and those who support him..There credentials are useless no matter what they say or do!

    Note..Edit..Tasos will try to free load with out paying for anything..Hes looking for a free Publish and it dont matterhow he gets it..
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/09 @ 19:17

  • makememoo #495 3 years ago

    I've binned loads of MMOs in well under 10 hours game time because they were utter bollocks (tabula rasa, AOC, SWG to name but a few). If the first 9 hours are 2/10 does it really matter if the next 41 are 4 or even 5/10?

    I assumed there was always an unspoken rule that the initial review of an MMO was the opening 10 hours-ish and then they wade in 6 months or more with a revisit review looking at endgame content. If you develop a game that opens as 2/10 then you know the result. Funcom seemed to know this very well, seeing as their game only had 12 hours of play in it before there was nothing and so solicited their rather too grand score.
    Edited by 1 at 11/05/09 @ 09:15

  • JahB #496 3 years ago

    is this still going? i lol'd at this nonsense friday before i left work, and i find it hard to believe that this is still going on.

    goes to show what happens if you upset people that don't have a life

  • EG_IS_BALLS #497 3 years ago

    http://ww w.clichequest.com/headquarters/...

  • iokthemonkey #498 3 years ago

    You realise, EG_IS_BALLS that the comic you posted a link to is actually making fun of how utterly childish Tasos' response was, don't you?

  • iokthemonkey #499 3 years ago

    It's a half-full/half-empty thing I think.

    But if Tasos is now pulling the whole, "I WUZ JOKING LOL" argument, then that makes it even funnier. I'd be interested in seeing this second response, but if it's the one I've already seen, it was just more whining...

  • darkmorgado #500 3 years ago

    Bloody hell. This thread combined with the original review thread now stands at over 1500 posts.
    A lot of fuss over a crap game caused by an immature dev having a hissy fit.

    /sighs

  • levitate #501 3 years ago

    Goes to show you can never have enough of Internetz lulz drama.

  • Henrik_se #502 3 years ago

    Personally, I would love to see a re-review of this by Kieron. I know Aventurine doesn't wan't that to happen, but how could they stop it? :-)

  • iokthemonkey #503 3 years ago

    Personally, I would love to see a re-review of this by Kieron. I know Aventurine doesn't wan't that to happen, but how could they stop it? :-)

    ----

    People PAYING to play the beta cod- I mean, "game" can't even get a look-in. I doubt Aventurine are going to actually allow another reviewer near Darkfall.

    A shame, really, as it would - all joking aside - be nice to have a second opinion.

  • levitate #504 3 years ago

    @iokthemonkey:

    They would shoot themselves in the foot if they let EG's review be the only one floating around online.

  • iokthemonkey #505 3 years ago

    You think they're capable of actually handing ANY form of PR? Clearly from their response here, they're not and at least if it's only one review they can dismiss it as such. The moment another 4 reviews appear at that same level, Metacritic will go from an "unrated" to a "20%"

  • scallawag #506 3 years ago

    Feh..

    Even if he played it for 3 hours.. Everything he described is SPOT ON! I've been a beta tester since Sep 2008 and this game is a holy mess of cheaters, insecure packets, lag, server-side latency issues, errors, poor graphics and a morass of kids that are there with apparently nothing better to do than trying to find the newest and greatest exploit to piss everyone off.

    That, my friends, sums up darkfall online completely.

  • scallawag #507 3 years ago

    And actually... I don't think I played it for 3 hours in the last year..

    Playing it for 3 hours was painful enough. I can COMPLETELY see why this guy didn't want to go any further than 3 hours. Good god.

  • drkOne #508 3 years ago

    @floppylobster How would you know the movie sucked if you only watched half of it? Does that make sense in your head? Because it certainly doesn't make any sense in mine! A reviewer is expected to be impartial and professional enough to be able to PLAY the game no matter how bad it is.

    Even if the reviewer is telling the truth 9h is a fucking shame for a MMORPG, if you can't get enough hours in just don't review it.

    To Eurogamer, you guys were the only site around where scores still meant something to me, as it is, this will be the last hit you'll get from me.

  • Ez3kiel. #509 3 years ago

    I would like now to introduce a game superior to Darkfall. It is best mmorpg ever, Wurm Online:
    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=fBxIex6M3SA
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=fBxIex6M3SA
    [/link]

  • onyx_elite #510 3 years ago

    I know that my comments here will fall quietly among the deafening cacophany of outrage and bickering that comprises this frankly huge comments section but I feel I should lay my cards on the table.

    Firstly, I find it incredibly hypocritical that so many of these 'fans' of Darkfall Online would complain about a score whilst simultaneously calling into disrepute the journalistic integrity of Eurogamer contributors. If you value the journalism then the score matters, if you don't then the score is irrelevant and shouldn't generate such outrage. You can't have it both ways.

    Also these cries of protest only further diminish the integrity of the developers and the reputation of the game. Everyone and everything has its critics, both well-advised and ill-advised. The appropriate response to bad press is to disregard it because the opposite has a much more damaging effect. Retaliation in the media just makes the company look pathetic and petty. If the product is a quality one, it will stand on it's own merits despite a scathing review from one site.

    Of the criticism that the reviewer didn't play the game for long enough, how do you think games reviews work? The reviewer is often unaware of the features & benefits of long-term play and this applies to all games. Reviews are intended to reflect a first few hours of play as this is long enough to ascertain the quality of the title based on impressions of graphics, sound, controls etc. A game may have long term benefits to reward players for 100+ hours of play. These are reached by players who have progressed through a lot of QUALITY GAMEPLAY. Ed progressed through 9 hours of awful tedium and unneccessary complexity before finishing his jaunt in the game. If those 9 hrs adhered to even the most basic rules of quality game creation he might have given it a deeper look. At the end of the day your game lives or dies on keeping players hooked from the go. You wouldn't criticise someone for walking out of a shitty film just because it had tits at the end.

    Finally, the attitude of fans of the game, the underhanded and childish tactics used on this thread and the uninformed and repetitive bleating of the same complaints again and again make me never want to play this game because I wouldn't want to constantly encounter such a bunch of pathetic, whiny, obsessive jerks.

  • onyx_elite #511 3 years ago

    @anduz

    I think this situation has escalated much further than any sensible reaction to a video game review. I appreciate that a niche of gamers like this game, but from what I've seen from the standard of their posts, this isn't a niche that deserves consideration. Eurogamer provides reviews for any and all and unfortunately sometimes that means reviewing a game for the benefit of Joe Public and not to stroke the ego of a developer desperate for positive coverage.

    The majority of mainstream gamers (mainstream, not casual) will appreciate the frankness of the review because in a game that requires, nay demands many hours of play to experience fully, it will save them from a lot of wasted hours waiting for the good bit to arrive. A competent MMORPG delivers both short term and long term rewards to keep the player hooked. If the former is absent as appears to be the case then it deserves a poor review.

    Ultimately, if Darkfall was intended as a niche game then the developers should expect a small following of fans with a specific interest and not mass-market appeal. This is clearly what the game has achieved so I don't see how a poor review from this one site can do to damage it's reputation.

    Regarding the criticism of how long the game was played for, you should realise that Eurogamer's editors and contributors only have a limited amount of time in the day like everyone else and I imagine no shortage of games to review. A big title will undoubtedly get more time devoted to it, more page space and therefore more advertising revenue for the site. A niche or independent title will probably get less time and less space.

    As far as journalism goes, there will always be vast differences of opinion and factual errors. The best a publication, or in this case website, can do to rectify that is to investigate further with all facts to hand which is exactly what has been proposed here.

  • jellyman #512 3 years ago

    I thought there was going to be a re-review... did i miss it? Just interested to see if the other guy thought it sucked as much as the first guy.

  • YourMessageHere #513 3 years ago

    While there is no proven concrete link between ability to string a sentence together without making mistakes and general intelligence, I personally believe it to be highly interconnected, especially as a scale for people's ability to relate to others (which is kind of significant in an MMO). I think it's pretty telling that exactly none of the rabidly anti-review posts by people who have obviously registered in order to rant about a bad review for the game they play are actually written with anything like a competent command of English. On the other hand, leaving aside the issue of the veracity of its facts, the review in question was well written. Based on what I read here, I'd not want to speak to any of the Darkfall fans, let alone trust their word over Ed Zitron's.

    I don't always agree with EG, but I find them to be about as far beyond reproach as any corporate entity is capable of going. The idea we are being asked to swallow is that they would throw all of their credibility aside by employing a journalist who basically told lies, and thus expertly snipe themselves in the foot over a niche title relatively far from their core audience. This seems much less likely to me than a game developer massaging their own logfiles to try and pass off a negative review of their game, which happens to be their one and only source of income and the focus of years of their work, on a respected site as somehow inherently wrong.

    If gaming is going to be taken seriously as an adult's pastime, developers need to be able to take criticism. If this sort of childish hissy fit (by which I mean the official response, not the million wailing fans) was pulled by every author, musician and director who got bad press, we'd all be neck deep in snotty letters saying "my work is good really, you're just not experiencing it right; you need to watch/read/listen to it for at least 30 hours solid before you can even begin to form an opinion!". That is a pathetic argument, and always has been. I usually have an idea inside 9 minutes whether I'm likely to enjoy a book, film, album or game or not, and I'll be fairly certain inside 90 minutes. 9 hours is more than enough to form first impressions.

  • rushwind5 #514 3 years ago

    @YourMessageHere
    Your rant about anyone that felt the review was poorly done falls flat when you emphatically declare no argument was presented coherently. Countless people have done so, it seems you willfully ignored them or did not read through most comments before making your claim. The level of immaturity presented by rapid EG fans easily equals that of any of the immature posts from DF fans. A quick glance of the posts easily confirms this.

    Your second point tries to compare the "word" of EG and that of Aventurine. It should however be comparing that of Ed vs Aventurine. Your whole argument relies on speculation that Ed would obviously not write something false ever so we shouldn't even begin to question the validity of the 'facts' he presents. This idea is ludicrous. He can and did present paragraph after paragraph of false information about the game. I'd be curious to here you or anyone actually try to defend the multiple falsities that have been shown in his article. It is mind boggling that anyone is trying to defend that. Surely you value honesty and integrity in journalism and published papers? Holding published articles to that standard is the norm, why should it not be applied here, like everywhere else?

    Your next point attempts to say Aventurine should not have criticized this article. Consider what you're actually saying there for a second. Surely you'll admit there are situations when a company with a product should speak out about a review that simply does not present the product as it is. If a movie reviewer (especially one from a well know reviewer) writes a review of a movie, criticizing it for something that did not even happen in the movie, the movie company has the right and should challenge the review. It's a no-brainer. So why is this article still up? Presenting another review of the same game does not change the fact that EG will still be presenting and supporting a review filled with false 'facts' about the game.
    Edited by 1 at 23/05/09 @ 21:05

  • Oceans1999 #515 3 years ago

    I know what the reviewer means. I spent some 18 minutes on the game World of Warcraft on a friends recommendation and found it was a waste of time too. When I died, I became a ghost and could not get back again. Stupid game.

    I am so glad sites like this can invest the time to try out products so that I don't have to before I make the mistake of paying for them. In fact, I rarely do anything in life on my own now without Eurogamers trusted opinion there to back me up. It's like having a second, better brain that never puts a cerebral foot wrong.

    In fact, before you smile instinctively at something next time, why not just have a quick check with Eurogamer just to make sure it's okay. What button do I push now?? ahhh the "speak your brain" quippybutton. (chuckling) That's Eurogamer!
    Edited by 1 at 25/05/09 @ 22:46

  • Kami #516 3 years ago

    I agree with people, 9 hours is usually enough time to make up your mind if a game is going to pull you in or not. Actually, this can be forumlated in a couple of hours.

    Perhaps the point being missed is a review, officially endorsed by EG or Reader Review, is the opinion of one person. I could try Darkfall, I've been playing MMO's both release, beta and alpha since 2000 - I have a very high tolerance threshold, perhaps too great to be a totally fair viewpoint but so far Darkfall seems to be everything I hate about where MMORPG's are headed.

    Let us put it this way. Freedom is fine and dandy in single-player. You put a person in a sandbox map with lots of tools at their disposal and the first instinct is usually to wreck the place but others may jump right into the actual story. But that is fine, because you're not treading on the toes of other people in your enjoyment. In an MMO - be it Darkfall or Age of Conan's woeful initial addition of PvP - freedom is overrated. Everyone is different, and having people tread on other peoples enjoyment of the game by accident or design is a bad thing. Everyone is in the game for fun, not to end up being molested or have all their hard work and loot stolen in a heartbeat by some callous player - and when there is no mechanic there to punish the hecklers, you have a real REAL issue on your hands.

    The Darkfall review by Ed to me seemed perfectly fair. He played it for as long as he could stomach it and came away feeling it was a wasted effort. That is his opinion. He gets paid to do this and as was said in the Damnation review, reviewers do try and see the good in everything - it's probably how you cope with games all day every day, otherwise you'd be carted off to the nearest mental hospital. When a reviewer can't find the fun, they will tell you. Some may enjoy Darkfall, and that's great, but it doesn't need to come to this kind of warfare - Darkfall seems to be doing fine.

    I mean, no publicity is bad publicity, right? Come on, it's got me itching to find out if Darkfall is really that bad!

  • rushwind5 #517 3 years ago

    @Kami
    I would disagree as to the definition of a review. It's not just an opinion of the reviewer. I would call it: the opinion of the reviewer based on facts and knowledge about the product. Most people who read this review haven't played the game, so of course it will seem fine to them. However, stop and consider this one example to try and understand what many of us are saying is wrong with the article.

    "As much as this might sound like Diablo II, Darkfall's combat is rather more similar to a Quake mod circa 1997. The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. It isn't even an issue of timing your clicks based on the connection with your sword - it's nigh-on random. Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying."

    See that entire paragraph from the review? Everything in it about the game is false. And that's just one example. So how is this 'review' fair? It is a normal standard to expect a paid professional writer to present only accurate information in a published article. Otherwise, what is the point of the article at all. A review's main goal is to help potential customers decide about buying said product. How is presenting tons of false information about any product ever a good thing?

  • Bremenacht #518 3 years ago

    The Daily Dorkfail

  • Longinus #519 3 years ago

    All I can say, is this review is as accurate as the Darkfall home web site. In fact, the review is probably more accurate. I feel it's(the review) a fair warning to anyone interested in playing Darkfall, that they had better ask plenty of questions before purchasing. Because they will be sorely disappointed if they use the "Features" page of the DFO web site as a gauge.

    As for Tasos and his temper-tantrum, "oh yeah!, duel my main!!", diatribe? Just another proof positive(negative) as to Aventurine's mentality as far as dealing in the MMORPG industry goes.

  • Mellissa #520 3 years ago

    So is there any sign of a new review yet ?
    It's Monday and I need a laugh.

    .
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/09 @ 08:44