Dragon Age: Origins Review

By Oli Welsh Published 3 November, 2009

Drakes' fortune.

Version tested: PC

This is a review of the PC version of Dragon Age: Origins. We'll tackle the console version separately soon.

I can scarcely remember the last time I played a game in which I didn't level up. Forza Motorsport 3's racecars grind out experience points with every lap. Borderlands is a gluttonous hybrid of hair-trigger silliness and accumulating stats. Call of Duty has conquered online shooting with persistent character progression. Even the Space Invaders cannon - the humblest, most primal collection of pixels in gaming - now gains ranks and power with every kill. In 2009, the role-playing game is everywhere.

But where, in its traditional form, is the role-playing game? The genre's biggest recent hits are the futuristic action crossovers Fallout 3 and Mass Effect, and online scion World of Warcraft. In Japan, Monster Hunter's weird sub-genre of handheld multiplayer grinding has swept aside the fantasy epics that were once a national obsession. Although German developers valiantly keep the flame alive with the likes of Risen, Sacred and Drakensang, you have to look back to 2006's Oblivion to find the last globally significant solo adventure in swords and sorcery - and even that game was scarcely traditional.

Small wonder, then, that super-studio BioWare's return to the realms that made its name has attracted such intense, devotional interest. It might have shed the formal connection to Dungeons & Dragons, but otherwise Dragon Age: Origins might as well be a sequel to Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, and the world is willing it to be a classic. Over half a decade in the making, vast in scope, neck-deep in loot, lore and labyrinthine plotting - if classics were measured by the yard and made out of man-hours, Dragon Age would stand head and shoulders above them all.

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 1

The silly blood spatter turns many tender or serious moments into high comedy.

But they're not. And although it's a work of great accomplishment and craftsmanship - and no small amount of ambition - Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game, or any game for that matter: vision, inspiration, soul.

Somewhere in its journey back to its roots, BioWare has got lost in the dense tangle of what it was trying to accomplish. It hasn't been able to see the wood for the trees. It has summoned an entire world into existence in the most meticulous detail, but failed to give it an identity beyond the blandest cliché. It has created living characters that respond like humans, but speak like dictionaries and move like mannequins. It has engineered solidly absorbing RPG gameplay and character progression and stranded them in a succession of hackneyed and hide-bound scenarios.

Much of the best and worst of Dragon Age: Origins can be found in the six origin stories that serve as a prologue, depending on the race and class you've chosen. (You can find more information on these, and on the game's systems in general, in our recent hands-on.) They strive hard to work plausible political depth into the straight-laced high-fantasy set-up. Elves are in touch with nature and live in the woods - but some of them are oppressed by humans. Dwarves live undergound and like mining - but their society is riven by class war. Mages toy with dangerous power beyond their control - so they're controlled by an order of zealous, drug-addicted holy warriors. An ancient evil called the Blight is rising - but infighting and scepticism are undermining the fight against it.

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 2

The beautiful party select screen. The dog talks least. The elf is the most bi-curious.

Each origin sketches out a complex corner of the land of Ferelden with laborious care, and each of these miniature stories will find a pleasing echo, a ripple of consequence later on in the main campaign. Each offers an interesting twist and half a chance for the player to take things in a different direction. But they're so laden with interminable exposition and storytelling artifice for its own sake that the game itself - the small matter of levelling and combat - barely gets a look-in. The same carries through to the first chapter of the campaign proper, in which your character is inducted into the Grey Wardens, an ancient organisation that fights the Blight. As if encumbered by its own sheer mass, the game takes a long, long time to get going. You'll be half a dozen hours into Dragon Age before you get the measure of it.

When you eventually get there - after a brief spate of questing, more exposition, a lightweight dungeon, a big twist and a limp starter village - you'll discover a polished, thoughtful and flexible party-based RPG that will undoubtedly please fans of the style. If they can hack their way through to it, it will win over a few converts too. That's thanks to its remarkable flexibility.

Dragon Age can be played in real-time, or quasi-turn-based, pausing the action with the space bar to queue up skills. You can use a third-person camera or a tactical top-down view, WASD or mouse-click for movement. You can micro-manage every move of your four-man party, or stick with one character (whether it's the player character or one of the roster of companions) and let the preset or programmable Tactics system take care of the rest. This isn't quite as effective or as boldly automated as Final Fantasy XII's Gambits, but it's still a great alternative for players who like to do their thinking in advance and then watch the action play out. It's all controlled through a superlative PC game interface - attractive, accommodating, simple and precise.

Mechanically speaking, then, Dragon Age does a pretty good job of being all things to all men, and brings the best out of itself with some challenging and well-designed encounters with bosses or large groups of tough enemies. Unfortunately, it undermines this good work to an extent with its difficulty settings.

There's a huge gulf between the completely mindless Easy and the demanding Normal. On the latter, you'll either have to be a Tactics genius or prepared to pause and micro-manage frequently to get through tougher fights, and even veteran RPG players with a full command of the game's skills will find some regular pulls or mini-bosses turning into epic wars of attrition that will drain their stocks of consumables. That's all fair enough, of course, but without a smooth step up from Easy, it cramps what should have been an expansive middle ground for novice players who wanted to get deeper into the game. Dragon Age is either a pushover or a hardcore RPG.

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 3

The Dwarven capital, Orzammar. Sound familiar?

At least you can't really say that of the classes. Although the mage, warrior and rogue archetypes are basic - and though warriors and rogues share a lot of common ground in weapons skills - there are multiple tiers of customisation in each. The powerful and flavoursome specialisations are nicely embedded in the game's storyline and characters to the extent that it would be a spoiler to say how you can pick them up.

Even without them, the shallow-but-wide talent trees and common passive skills - including coercion, which unlocks more conversational options and story possibilities - give plenty of scope for crafting an individual character. Levelling is well-paced and so are the loot rewards (so long as you like them occasional, and meaningful).

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 4

Travel between quests and locations happens on this map, sometimes interrupted by random ambushes and events.

All of this you will begin to appreciate when you undertake the first of the four main branches of the plot, which can be attempted in any order as your character aims to recruit four important factions to the Grey Wardens' cause. By this point, you'll also have Alistair and Morrigan with you.

Although everyone will have their own favourites (I'm partial to the hilariously terse warrior Sten, purely because he seems to enjoy making an impossible, contrary mockery of the game's careful art of conversation) these two are the stars of the game's cast of companions. Likeable, open-hearted Grey Warden Alistair and irascible vixen-witch Morrigan are as charismatic as the stars of, say, Uncharted 2. That's remarkable, considering not just the complex depth of interaction with them, but also, sadly, the endless tracts of wooden script they have to battle through, their stiff and lifeless animation, and their contrived storylines.

The voice cast does well, and the quality of dialogue lifts noticeably in its rare lighter moments. But perhaps it's just the sheer amount of time you spend paying active attention to these virtual people that allows them to work they way into your affections. Each companion has an approval rating for the player character, and manipulating these through conversations, decisions and gift-giving - eventually unlocking personal quests, romance and even sex, portrayed with all the sensuous passion of the database spreadsheet that underlies it all - is an engrossing game in itself. Although it can be clumsy and mechanical in the details, overall, evolving your relationship with the companions has a volatile unpredictability that makes for quite a credible simulation of human interaction.

It's the most convincingly organic part of the game's story, which doesn't so much branch as spread across a sprawling, tangled inland delta before narrowing back down to one or two defined outcomes. In fact, there's a huge amount of permutation and flexibility to how your own Dragon Age campaign matures, and it's happily devoid of heavy-handed moral dichotomy. But all this freedom is partially obscured.

Meaningful choices are lost in a near-infinite number of meaningless ones, consequences are only vaguely defined before the fact, and the cold machinations of the cast stir admiration for the game's clever, systematic plotting, but seldom emotion. Uninvolved, you make calls with your head and not your heart, and you never feel like you can escape the gravitational pull of the game's design the way you can in, for example, Bethesda's RPGs.

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 5

More complex battles are better undertaken in the top-down view (only in this PC version).

It's a shame, because there are fascinating alternate routes through Dragon Age to be discovered. Getting a sense of them halfway through your run through the game, you conceive a desire to play it again to explore its possibilities with more freedom and foreknowledge - and it's true that despite running 50 to 100 hours in length, this game has tremendous replay value.

But any desire to play it again is ultimately squashed, for many reasons which can be boiled down to one. Although the systems which make up Dragon Age's world are all interesting and well-realised - the companion interaction, the plotting, the character progression, the combat - the world itself is neither.

Side quests are perfunctory and unappealing filler, usually boiling down to a treasure hunt or a long explanation for a short scrap. (There is hope that downloadable content will serve the game better in the long run, with the Stone Prisoner launch pack offering a short but satisfying episode in a new location, some tasty items and an amusing new companion.) Dungeons are designed with care but mostly without imagination, only occasionally leavening the maze-like, monster-infested ruined temples with the odd puzzle or dimensional warp. The game's locations are cramped, dull and devoid of atmosphere, surrounded by invisible walls and fractured by loading times. There's no sense of a contiguous, believable world out there, which is one thing in a linear action game - quite another in a sprawling, supposedly franchise-founding RPG.

'Dragon Age: Origins' Screenshot 6

Sex! Violence! Moustaches! Fantasy comes of age.

Things are better when BioWare settles into the intentionally dry Machiavellian world of the human capital Denerim (especially in the game's conniving climax) or the Circle of Magi. But when it's at its highest fantasy - especially in the dismally conventional and ugly woodland world of the Dalish Elves - Dragon Age is lowest on charm. The artwork across the board is polished but generic, with strong character designs giving way to bland architecture and lifeless landscapes.

There aren't many working in high fantasy who can lay claim to total originality. Nor is there anything inherently dull and derivative about elves, dragons and dwarves. But there's something missing from Dragon Age. There's no alternative to the eeriness of Elder Scrolls, the colourful exuberance of Warcraft, the gritty savagery of Warhammer, the classical lyricism of Tolkien.

In its desperation to infuse this setting with "maturity" - be it of the sober, political kind, or the game's painfully clumsy gore and sex - BioWare has forgotten the key ingredient of any fantasy: the fantastical. Without it, you're still left with a competent, often compelling, impressively detailed and immense RPG, but it's one that casts no spell.

8 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (319) 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Waldo #1 2 years ago

    A high-profile multiplatform game gets reviewed on the PC first? What gives?

  • Orihalcon19 #2 2 years ago

    I have to respectfully disagree with the reviewer's overall impression of "lack of immersion". The art, the voices, the score (music), the depth of the world captures you from the start. What is described as being a overly long time to get going to you, is an awesome immersion experience to others. This game goes back to the roots of last century RPG's and delivers a fantastic performance. Not without flaws, as everything has room to be improved upon, but for fans of the genre you will be hard pressed to find better.

    Puts me in minds of The Witcher. Even with all the clunky menu and alchemic controls (pre patches) the game still delivered a unique and complete RPG experience. DA:o does the same. Kudos on the 8/10 though :) thought from the rhythm of writing it would receive a six!

  • makeamazing #3 2 years ago

    These types of games ARE a slow burn, you dont just have the whole story in one go :)

    What I want to know is do i get the chance of owning a castle like in Baulders gate 2... that was one of my favourite moments in gaming.

  • Keivz #4 2 years ago

    Agreed that this review sounds like a game that should get a 5 or 6. My preorder is on the way and my free time is precious. I'm hoping they're wrong.



    "It has summoned an entire world into existence in the most meticulous detail, but failed to give it an identity beyond the blandest cliché."

    This and the boring sidequests remind me of Mass Effect. Here's hoping this is a better game.

  • Exarch #5 2 years ago

    Was expecting 6-7 here, thinking of The Witcher as well: "Might as well wait a year and buy the fully patched and enhanced GOTY edition with all the hard-to-get DLC on one disc." Which is a shame, since I was really looking forward to this one.

  • UncleLou #6 2 years ago

    Interesting review - I am a little surprised that you mention the Elder Scrolls series several times. In particular Oblivion suffered from many of the faults you mention (and Mass Effect didn't exactly win anything in the "original setting" competition, either).

    The setting really seems to be a marmite thing - the IGN UK (I think) review didn't stop waxing lyrically about it.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 06:54

  • SuperBas #7 2 years ago

    Sounds like a good rpg stuck in the blandest of cliché worlds. I think I'll pass.

  • SleepyMagpie #8 2 years ago

    Did it get it's 8/10 because of it's polish? Because of the effort put in? Because of big, scary Bioware and EA?

    If the reviewer writes it up to sound like a 6/10, and obviously feels that way, it should rate that way as well.

    I'm interpreting this as a 6. Shame, was in high hopes about this. But, design by committee and all that..

  • Gl3n #9 2 years ago

    Interesting review, pretty much confirmed what i had gathered from the pre-release material.

  • Turambar #10 2 years ago

    I don't doubt that i'll enjoy this regardless of the review.

  • rotmm #11 2 years ago

    @Sleepy, "If the reviewer writes it up to sound like a 6/10, and obviously feels that way, it should rate that way as well."

    I read it more as an 8/10, but that the reviewer was hoping and expecting more from a developer with such a proven track record and was maybe a little disappointed that it didn't meed his high expectations.

  • super_monty #12 2 years ago

    ....because it's eurogamer add at least 1 point to the score for PC the version and up to 2 points for console versions.

    Thank you.

  • superjag86 #13 2 years ago

    It sounds disappointing. I'm going to pick up Torchwood and play through The Witcher instead.

  • haruvister #14 2 years ago

    How the hell did it get an 8?? The review made it sound like a bloated, cliched mess. Even if the longevity brings it up to average, that's only a 5. This totally skews the meta-score.

  • Dexter2015 #15 2 years ago

    This game need get a 1 for ones again not have a open world and use the MAP TRAVEL CHEAT!!! Why can there not be more games like World of Warcraft where the big world really is a big world where you can go and stand where you want... this looks really bad for the new starwars mmo game!

  • Kanjin #16 2 years ago

    Hmm. What I expected though. I will leave it a bit and see what the DLC looks like

  • Scimarad #17 2 years ago

    Admit it, that 8 was an act of self defence, not the actual rating:) Reading that I was expecting a big fat 6 or 7 at the end.

    Unfortunately this review rings a lot truer to all the videos we've seen then the over-enthusiastic reviews that have appeared elsewhere. I just had a horrible flashback to the worst part of KOTOR; Reading page after page of dialogue that made it look like the NPCs were reciting their auto-biography rather than having a conversation. Mix that with the apparently lazy Tolkien-knock off world and this starts to sound very, very unappealing.

    I'm sure hordes of people who've never played the game will be in to crucify you for the review, anyway.

  • Gabrien #18 2 years ago

    I think the clear message of the review text is: "stay away." At least that was what I got from it.

    Agree the score does not match the review, and also expected a 6.

  • Scimarad #19 2 years ago

    I know the reviewers sometimes read the comments (god knows why!) so would you be able to tell why you mauled it in the text but then gave it a very good score?

  • ybfelix #20 2 years ago

    I'm not concerned about difficulty 'cos I'm a pause-starter and I don't care about newcomers.

    I hope it has better than Mass Effect's dialog(fake choices[all three branch say the same thing?!], unconvincing persuasion/intimidate lines etc.) and side quest quality - actually I wish some RPGs would discard the rigid divide between main and side quest, the thread of fate is not that clear in real life.

    Regarding the text: Maybe some of you should consider re-read the review? It does not sound a 6 to me.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 07:48

  • Orihalcon19 #21 2 years ago

    This is all about what you as a player want from a RPG. Like ME 1's endless conversations and massive information overload. Some find it bloated, others like myself love that stuff. Just like BG 1/2 with all the text - some players love that. I just started playing this, though will have to restart on Friday when I get my CE, but so far this game is the epicenter of the classic RPG player's wheelhouse.

    Yes, I know, I sound like a fan-boy and maybe I am, but this game is that good for me - not without faults, but for what it set out to do, it achieved. If this style of game isn't your flavor of ice-cream then you will hate it, find it overly long and verbose at times. If it is, then welcome to the start of a great new franchise.

  • Scimarad #22 2 years ago

    The conversations in ME (and The Witcher) were a big improvement over those in most WRPGs - The character was actually part of the conversation and dialogue was actually a lot more 'to the point'. Just compared it to KOTOR where you would select a response and the NPC would drone on for the next five minutes.

    Unfortunately this looks not so much like a back slide as a headlong sprint in the opposite direction.

  • anomagnus #23 2 years ago

    EG strikes again with a review that is contrary to the rest of the reviewing communnity. Once is a difference of opinion, dozens of times says to me something is wrong.

    I've long since disregarded this sites reviews, they never match what i experience in the game, so i will be getting this, but i have to be honest here, EG does not know how to review RPGs. Their praise for Bethseda's shows that, for Bethseda have been on a downward spiral since Morrowwind. Oblivion was a pale, pale shadow of that game, and Fallout 3, for me, was AWFUL. I actually stopped playing it, traded it in.

    Unless the RPG in question is WoW, this site cannot be relyed on to give you a decent review of RPG. To anyone that was interested in the game, and has posted here saying they'll skip it based on one review, thats pretty stupid. Read other reviews, and not just a review that didnt have the courage of its own convictions (if you want to write it up as a 6, give it a 6, don't fanny out at the end), and base your buying decision on multiple reviews.

    The sad thing is with this site, even if they have given it 10/10, i still wouldnt have trusted their review.

  • munki83 #24 2 years ago

    I'm still looking forward to this. Its good that eurogamer has pointed out some of the major flaws in the game and it could be argued that they are revealing the flaws of the genre. I still plan to spend most of Friday with this with my robe on with the hood up and being all excited about every choice I make.

  • DaemonSpawn #25 2 years ago

    I would really like to see Bethesda's RPGs, where one can "escape the gravitational pull of the game's design". I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, Daggerfall and Fallout 3 - they're not such RPGs, so please name those where you REALLY can.

    "BioWare has forgotten the key ingredient of any fantasy: the fantastical."
    Is it a bad thing? I love the idea of not-fantasy RPG! They are so rare (unlike clone-and-stamp Oblivions).

  • Genji #26 2 years ago

    The review reads like less than an 8, I have to say.

    I reckon I'll pick this up, but mostly because of Bioware's pedigree.

  • Scimarad #27 2 years ago

    @anomagnus

    Unfortunately most of the flaws EG point out seem pretty evident in the preview videoes we've seen.

  • orakio #28 2 years ago

    I think everyone expected the perfect WRPG, a shiny round 10 in the end, so if you start there and subtract 2 points for the major flaws the 8 stands strong.

    After rereading the review the feeling of 6 has mostly dissapeared for me.

  • ybfelix #29 2 years ago

    @Orihalcon19: I think BG2's much more light hearted compared to Mass Effect, for example item descriptions.

    One biff about Mass Effect: it could benefit from more cutscenes: too much texts and exposition of ME CAN be substituted with cutscenes. I'm not saying it should go Final Fantasy but sometimes ME felt like a school play that lacks in stage props department. Every time someone "give" you something it's represented by a slight move of hand, and too much plot is conveyed with dialog even realistcally it should be with action.

    An example: in the side quest Biotics kidnaped a chairman, after you convinced them to lay down arms(with not-so-convincing dialogs..), you just left the kidnapers and hostage standing there without any constrain, saying someone from fifth fleet will handle the situation from here on, and you.. departed? Even a cutscene in which you lock the Biotic and the hostage in separate rooms would help my suspension of disbelief.
    Edited by 2 at 03/11/09 @ 08:07

  • Zero22 #30 2 years ago

    Umm I have to highly disagree with this review, though I agree the reviewer probably should have given it a 6-7. Been playing for around 20 hours now (my store broke the street date) and right from the start this was an incredibly immersive experience, with some of the finest music and detailed locations in an RPG in years. It's one of the coolest worlds I've had the pleasure of exploring in twenty years of gaming and it runs great even on my 3 year old computer. This game is SEEPING with imagination. The game has made me really care about the characters (at least as a human noble, I can't comment on how the other 5 play out).

    I'd reccommend that anyone who is turned off by this review, not put too much salt in it, unless of course you actually hated games like Mass Effect and KoToR. In that case, I would not expect you to fall in love with this game either. There is certainly a ton of dialogue available, but if the reviewer hated it so much, I have no idea why they didn't just choose to not listen to it all, as it's rarely forced on you for progression. Personally, I enjoy it.

    I'm also quite puzzled by the supposed difficulty on normal. I can see how it might have somewhat of a higher learning curve to someone who has NEVER played a traditional PC RPG like NWN or BG/Icewind Dale, but it's about as difficult as NWN or BG1/2 imo for those who have, so you'll be right at home.

    I am really puzzled... back to playing. It's about all I can think about every second of the day lol. I wonder what this reviewer would have given BG2 after they encountered mind flayers.
    Edited by 2 at 03/11/09 @ 08:08

  • Load_2.0 #31 2 years ago

    "There's a huge gulf between the completely mindless Easy and the demanding Normal. On the latter, you'll either have to be a Tactics genius or prepared to pause and micro-manage frequently to get through tougher fights, and even veteran RPG players with a full command of the game's skills will find some regular pulls or mini-bosses turning into epic wars of attrition that will drain their stocks of consumables."

    YAY! An actual Baldurs Gate RPG sequel then, rather than some JRPG clone. Battles that are actually a challenge and require tactics? OH NO!

    I don't know how the console versions will differ, maybe they will offer up some button mashing version taht will satisfy the masses and their ten minute attention span.

    Odd review as it seems to me to be rife with contradictions, not least the score.

  • anomagnus #32 2 years ago

    @
    Scimarad

    you come across like someone that does like RPG's, so why are you even in this thread?

    The review reads like someone that didnt like the game, but knows as a reviewer he cant just give a six because he didnt like it, thats a bullshit way to review.

    As for the videos, just because you didnt like them means nothing. I've based my view ont he multiple different reviews i've seen, and play throughs by sites i respect, and EG is not one of them.

    Case in point, see comments by Zero 22 above.

    If i were to guess, Scimarad ,i think you dont like reading in a game.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 08:08

  • Genji #33 2 years ago

    Also, I cannot for the life of me think why it's so good that Bethesda games let you "escape from the gravitational pull of the game's design".

    Sure, you can ignore the quest and do other things.... but do what, exactly? Look at the pretty scenery? Delve into yet another identical cave, with the only reward being a piece of standardised loot? Close another Oblivion gate? The game gives you complete freedom to do nothing worthwhile. Personally, I'd rather a strong central quest.

  • Darren #34 2 years ago

    Well I was expecting a 6 or 7 by the end of that review after reading the first page and a half so an 8 is a pleasant surprise. Not that a lower score would have put me off anyway as BioWare haven't let me down yet. Reviews have mentioned the lack of originality and the fact that it feels an awful lot like Lord of the Rings but, for me, that's a plus not a minus as I've yet to experience a decent LOTR RPG.

    It goes without saying that I'm deeply excited about playing this game on the PC; I'm hoping that GAME will send mine today. Please. :)

  • Eraysor #35 2 years ago

    Dragon Age: Warrior Within

  • Moribundman #36 2 years ago

    Hmmm. I guess I need to see the 360 version reviewed (where my preorder is). At the EG Expo I was rather concerned at the level of texture detail in the 360 and PS3 iterations vs the PC one. Also it wasn't apparent whether you could take the overhead strategic view in either of these as you quite clearly did in the PC one.

    This reads like the interface and design choices were made with the PC in mind, and EG still didn't like the game as a whole (even if peer pressure staid their arm a little when it came to marking).

  • HermitArcader #37 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • Darren #38 2 years ago

    @Moribundman - "Also it wasn't apparent whether you could take the overhead strategic view in either of these as you quite clearly did in the PC one."

    I've read on several sites that the isometric-style overhead view is not in the console versions, it is played entirely from a more traditional third-person camera.

  • linea #39 2 years ago

    I think in many ways this highlights the main problem facing RPGs these days: the tension between the fact that the RPGs of old offered such a compelling experience in many ways *because* you were largely on rails- which allowed a focused use of writing resources, and the need for players to feel that their choices have a real impact.

    give the player more meaningful choice and the amount of content you have to provide not only multiplies exponentially, but the job of making the story ebb and flow in a compelling way becomes infinitely harder. Add this to the challenge of creating a world's worth of lore and background from scratch and I doubt even the biggest budgets would be remotely up to the task of creating something of the quality of story and characterization say the (relatively) linear, D&D-based Baldur's Gate II had.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 08:30

  • UncleLou #40 2 years ago

    Review is a perfect example of why EG should drop scores,

    Quite the contrary, in my opinion. The review is a perfect example why we need scores. The final score makes clear that the criticisms don't drag the game down that much. It allows the reviewer to criticise points of the game without constantly adding disclaimers. It's the combination of score and text that makes the review complete.

  • Amajiro #41 2 years ago

    I'd like to know what Krudster thought about it.

  • sirtacos #42 2 years ago

    Tbh this review reads like a 7... which, as others have pointed out, undermines the scoring system a little. When review scores don't match review content, and when people start evaluating the body of a review with a single digit like I just did by saying it "reads like a 7" - it shows that something's wrong somewhere. (But maybe the problem lies with the tendency of a few of us - me included - to put the final score above the review content instead of considering both holistically)

    Oli's review helped bring my expectations down a bit, which is good as it's going to make the wait until the 6th more bearable. But I still can't wait.
    Edited by 2 at 03/11/09 @ 09:10

  • Genji #43 2 years ago

    Having a gigantic gameworld doesn't necessarily mean that there's lots of content. In many cases, it just means dozens of hours spent walking around doing nothing. The content is the same - it's just spread over much more empty space.

    I want more WRPGs to get back to great storytelling, damnit. Yes yes, Oblivion lets you create your *own* story - but mine is always so bloody boring. I hope this is representative of a larger trend.

  • Gaol #44 2 years ago

    EG appears to use 8/10 as a massive catch all. That read like a seven at best - there's no consistency with other 8/10s which appear to fall foul of EG's attempts to look hard nosed.

    If you say you're going to use the whole scale, with 5 as an average, then stick to it. As for the actual text of the review - loved it.

  • HermitArcader #45 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • Markitron #46 2 years ago

    That is by far the most negative 8/10 I have ever read

  • guernican #47 2 years ago

    "The review *is* a 6 or 7. The 8 is not to get on the wrong side of EA."

    I think this is true. EA are notorious for skipping to the end of reviews. It's practically policy.

    Responses on this show how committed the fantasy RPG fanbase are, I guess. Personally, I'll wait til it comes down in price in the New Year.

  • SleepyMagpie #48 2 years ago

    @UncleLou:

    Or the score could be a convenient contrivance for the timid reviewer to hide behind, leaving those of us with attention spans like gnats, that never read the copy, none the wiser. Also secures business relations.

    Dragon Age: Origins - 8/10 EUROGAMER!

    Sounds pretty good, doesn't it. Would look good on the cover of something.

    Mind, I'm still not certain that the negatives Oli brought up are kosher, but I tend to lean that way, it seems to ring true. What I am certain of, however, is the great discordance between the score and the actual review text.

  • nodrick #49 2 years ago

    Remember this is the opinion of one individual.

    Read Gamespot's review ... they give it 9.5 ( similar to pretty much every other PC based review site ...)

    This guy doesn't like it ... I'm not him.

    The consensus of sites makes this read as an absolute must have ...

    For me a solid review should be from a panel of different tastes and agreement. Not one individuals personal comment

  • menage #50 2 years ago

    I'm still buying this.

    Just because there's nothing else coming out this year worth the trouble. Damn you MW2.

  • Plewt #51 2 years ago

    Thank goodness for an honest view of a Bioware game. But hoping it would hurt their smugness so they would start making something genuinely interesting and funny again is probably a bit too naive.

  • Ryuken #52 2 years ago

    vision, inspiration, soul

    Well, formulate properly what you wanted to see then, the Forgotten Realms weren't exactly free of clichés either and that never stopped BG II from being the most accomplished partybased PC RPG ever. Sorry to say this but this review sounds way too vague across all three pages. I don't even care anymore if you liked it or not, this just isn't informative enough. The comparison with the gravitational pull of Bethesda RPG's (in a paragraph about meaningful choices lol) totally undermines everything reasonable you've been trying to say. The review sounds as robotic as you want us to believe Dragon Age is which is something I didn't expect since Oli's other reviews were usually pretty spot-on and clear.

    Not even a single word on the toolset as well, get a grip guys and review the entire product please!

  • Gaol #53 2 years ago

    Moving on from the score, the biggest worry for me is the lack of a difficulty selection between super-easy and challenging. For me, with family/work commitments, an involved difficulty that doesn't frustrate or require repetition is important.

  • the_dudefather #54 2 years ago

    so sometimes EG are the bad boys who buck the tread and give a game a lower score to be cool and get ad revenue, then other times they give games higher scores than they want because of teh evil publishers

    sounds like it has more or less the same problems as something like fallout 3 or oblivion to me

  • MrTeatime #55 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:59:18 03-01-2012

  • Kerome #56 2 years ago

    Hmm, to be honest I was expecting a 7. The graphics vaguely remind me of Sega's Golden Axe remake, maybe that's influencing my judgement (another classic Sega facepalm moment). And the review does seem very negative, although that's not always down to publisher's influence - sometimes you do genuinely come across a game that's good, but could have been great except for a few things, and those few things really grate and end up dominating the review.

    But hey, for me this was a marginal purchase anyway, I might have gotten it if it had been lauded in with a string of 9's and 10's, but now I will definitely grab it second hand instead at some point. Time's too precious to be wasting on poor quality entertainment.

  • ZuluHero #57 2 years ago

    How does the game play on the 360 without the ISO veiw? If some bosses and fight best played in ISO doesn't that make the 360 version harder? Or does the game do stuff to compensate?

  • des #58 2 years ago

    EG RPG reviews are always shit,nothing new

  • sirtacos #59 2 years ago

    @ MrTeaTime: "Vampire: TM Bloodlines had well personable, snappy and interesting dialogue"

    Agreed. Best dialogue in a videogame ever. Still waiting for a game to match up to it... (and as much as I love Bioware titles, in terms of dialogue they're honestly not even in the same league)

  • Beige_Alert #60 2 years ago

    My guess based on reading the review would have been a 7.

  • JayG #61 2 years ago

    I reckon the biggest issue Bioware has had lately with atmosphere has been voiceovers. While the main character's are always of the highest qualilty, the rest tend to sound like the local butcher been taped while cutting some old granny's ham. BG2 and Planescape used the imagination, and I can't stand the later FF games with the american accents. Would much prefer the original voices with english subtitles.

  • Diogo_Ribeiro #62 2 years ago

    Strange. I've long held the position Bioware aren't as stellar as nearly everyone else seems to believe, and as I was reading, I couldn't help but nod at certain parts and think to myself "wow, took them long enough to notice this is how they work". They can be good but it takes a while to apprecitate it because it's never in the bombast of the score or the dear-diary conversations or even the hodge podge of combat - although it's usually sprinkled over those as well. That Dragon Age comes off as underwhelming to you isn't a surprise to me; that it still deserves an 8 after your impressions, however, is the true mystery.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 09:20

  • UberFrog #63 2 years ago

    I really liked this review being brutally honest.

    I think it gets 8/10 because its still overall a great game compared to other similar games we have played. But the reviewer barely mention this in this review. Why? Go look for the plastic fantastic reviews on other sites, there's plenty of muppets outhere praising this game to the sky.

    It feels like this review was addressed to those who played RPGs with soul, atmosphere and charm - like the Baldurs Gate series - and telling them: Nope, this game is not one of those. Brutally honest - and an important kick in the developers ass if we want to see better games in the future.

  • FortysixterUK #64 2 years ago

    Judging by the closing comment it's Mass effect all over again

  • OrgasmicMutton #65 2 years ago

    Hmm . . . i generally find Oli's opinions to be a decent guide - but on the other hand John Walker (who I usually agree with in what I like) lavished a lot more praise on the game in his PC Gamer review.

    Could well be a case that the truth for me lies somewhere in between. Which wouldn't surprise me at all really.

  • thedaveeyres #66 2 years ago

    "Judging by the closing comment it's Mass effect all over again"

    I really fucking hope so. Mass Effect was great.

  • Widge #67 2 years ago

    I really don't like the tie up at the end. For the duration of the marketing of this game I was in fear of horrible cliched storytelling, a hamfisted interpretation of "mature" being "sex and gore". I think Charlie Brooker summed up the sentiment for me when he was talking about Blood On The Sand saying it was trying so hard to be mature that it comes across as a petulant teenager desperately struggling to grow a bumfluff moustache.

  • MrTeatime #68 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:59:18 03-01-2012

  • BurningR #69 2 years ago

    So many comments about the fucking score.... blah blah blah...

  • Skurmedel #70 2 years ago

    Have anybody else (non-reviewer) played this and could comment on this game's qualities? I want to buy it, but I hate being disappointed above all else.

    I have given up getting anything like Baldur's Gate ever again, so my expectations are not that high, but it has to be Fallout 3 standard at least. For me, the quests and story is the most important bit.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 09:33

  • anomagnus #71 2 years ago

    I see the usual bs censorship exists on EG.

    Disagree with the reviewing policy and you're marked down, and your posts are invisible. Handy for EG.

    I'll say it again, EG can't review anymore, and it certainly NEVER could review RPG's

  • Zomoniac #72 2 years ago

    Is the PC version way better than the console versions, then? I played this at the expo on 360, and I know half an hour doesn't give you anywhere near enough time to form a judgement on the depth, atmosphere or story of an RPG, but it's long enough to suss the atrocious visuals, clunky controls, terrible combat, load screens every 5 seconds, and characters constantly getting stuck on doors or clipping through chairs or dead enemies floating 3ft of the floor.

  • Bazfrag #73 2 years ago

    "Review is a perfect example of why EG should drop scores"

    Agreed. Scores are bullshit anyway. They cause endless whining over miniscule numerical values, are paid for in some cases, (read most cases if its Famitsu or ign and others) and cause endless whining...

    Its better to read the words of reviews and listen to opinions of other gamers/friends/etc. If you buy based on scores alone, you will face disappointments when average games get high marks due to publisher pressure, or you may miss out on a gem simply because the publisher couldn't afford to moneyhat reviewers.

    edit: Also reviews of anything are opinions of the individual. They might not like what another may love. *Missed that out due to joypad typing fatigue!
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 09:43

  • Widge #74 2 years ago

    The writing on KOTOR was awful, the dialogue choices woeful. Mass Effect was great though, I actually really got into that after fully expecting to snub it after the KOTORs.

  • UncleLou #75 2 years ago

    Or the score could be a convenient contrivance for the timid reviewer to hide behind, leaving those of us with attention spans like gnats, that never read the copy, none the wiser. Also secures business relations.

    The thing is, I didn't read the review as a 6. I was expecting an 8 when I read it, or a 7 at worst. People weigh things differently, and for me, a generic setting isn't really much of a problem if the mechanics and characters are good. If I assume (which I do automatically when I read a review, whether that's correct or not) that the reveiwer has similar priorities, an 8 sounds about right. Just like those reviews sound right that applauded the word-building and gave it high 9s.

    As for people who only look at the scores: it's their own fault for not knowing why the game is "only" an 8 if they don't read the text, surely. They misunderstand the purpose of scores, or understand them differently at least.

  • tachometer #76 2 years ago

    I could tell this was going to be tosh from those pathetic videos they flooded Live with. Bioware completely lost the plot after KOTOR in my opinion.

  • ardamillo #77 2 years ago

    This is the first review I've read that bridges the gap between the dopey trailers and glowing reviews.

    Still going to buy it this weekend, but I'm interested to know how the console versions vary in terms of control and difficulty.

  • patchbox360 #78 2 years ago

    BioWare has forgotten the key ingredient of any fantasy: the fantastical. Without it, you're still left with a competent, often compelling, impressively detailed and immense RPG, but it's one that casts no spell.

    8/10

  • beastmaster #79 2 years ago

    Seems as though a 'low' scoring RPG is once again not getting the scores that certain RPG players want (10 for example). Therefore, EG is useless. They should change their scoring policy. They should have more than one person reviewing it. They are not consistent with other websites. They should... give me score I want dammit ;-)

    Edit: I'm waiting for the 360 review. I played it at the Expo, it's pretty much what the review text says. Wasn't massively taken by the graphics and in terms of actual 'play' time there wasn't a hell of a lot. A few boring conversations (out of context so made no sense) and lots of cut scenes.



    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 09:44

  • MrTeatime #80 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:59:18 03-01-2012

  • dwbell #81 2 years ago

    This does seem like the kind of game that is going to divide opinion. I think Bioware have developed this game for the hardcore RPG audience, aimed at satisfying those older gamers that enjoyed the BG series and want something fairly meaty. I just admire the scope and ambition of the game. Definitely a must-buy for this old gamer.

  • Quint2020 #82 2 years ago

    Giantbomb just gave this 5 stars, I've agreed with their reviews far more than EG's for nearly a year now, I'm going with them, this is going to be awesome.

    Check it out: http://ww w.giantbomb.com/dragon-age-orig...

  • Vanmunt #83 2 years ago

    I would be interested if Oli has actually played a bioware game before, KOTOR well that was one of the most protracted openings ever... 10+ hours before you even get going.

    1) It's Bioware and I've never been dissapointed by a Bioware game.

    I regretfully agree

  • Drool #84 2 years ago

    A 10 for both oblivion and fallout 3 whereas the immersion there was nowhere to be found. Played both for a few hours and just uninstalled it. Bioware on the other hand has a knack for true immersion.
    They seem to put the wrong people on the reviews nowadays though. I think it was Oli that had problem casting spells in another game and this is the only review that winches about normal mode being too hard. I can see how a game is less fun when you just plain suck at it. That being said, put a competent RPG-er on RPG reviews already.

  • anomagnus #85 2 years ago

    @jstar

    Firstly, i usually disagree with most of EG's reviews, and i rarely comment, unless i think its the bigger than usual bullshit review.

    It doesn't jive with about 6 other reviews i've read, at all. I find it amazing that other sites find no problems with it, but apparently only the great oli walsh can call the truth the truth.

    EG have not been able to do a proper review of an RPG for years, if at all. Their continued effusive praise for the average Fallout 3, which suffers from ALL the problems outlined in this review is a classic example.

    More than that, your post on original and exciting content stuns me. I've been playing RPG's for as long as you have, and reading the fantasy epics for as long, and quite frankly your post was nonsense. If you cannot see past a setting that has its precedents elsewhere, on other examples of the genre, then like Oli, that's a personal failing.

    If you cannot judge something based on its own merits, you shouldn't be reviewing anything. There are no original ideas.

    I also think its bit rich for you to criticize the world, when i see sites like gamespot, ign, penny arcade, and others talk about how consistent the game world is.

    If we were to follow your generalization rules, this site is populated by two types of people.

    1) People that beleive its 2005 and EG could still review games
    2) People that realize that they can't, and this review is one more in a long, long line of high and mid profile releases over the past few years that have been poorly reviewed.

    The fact is, i'll be buying this game. This a game for RPG fans, and one review won't be discouraging me, especially from EG. At the same time though, i would have had more respect for Oli, if he had just scored the game the way it sounded. I've read 6/10 'reviews' from this site that sounded better than this review. It read like a man that doesn't like the genre, doesn't understand it, and resented playing the game, but had to give it an 8, because giving it a 6 would ignite a firestorm.

    That may not be the case, maybe oli is the biggest rpg fan of all time, but that is NOT how his review read.

    Anyway, as i said earlier, if people wanted this game, and are now not going to buy it based on a single review, maybe they should read a few other reviews while they're at it.

  • MrTeatime #86 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:59:18 03-01-2012

  • Bazfrag #87 2 years ago

    "Giantbomb just gave this 5 stars"

    Imo they and several other outlets lost credibility when they refused to chastise Infinity Ward over the pc p2p debacle. I understand they have to eat lol, but after Gerstmangate I hoped they would be more honest. Actually its telling that even Eg reported that p2p article without the usual opinion or jokes or fanbait... a first? Dont bite the hand that feeds you as they say.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 10:03

  • Quint2020 #88 2 years ago

    @SJH

    I adored the Baldur's Gate series so I'm mostly basing my opinion of "this is going to be awesome" on that, plus the fact that if you follow GB you actually get to know the reviewers and Dave Snider (the dude that reviewed this) has pretty much my exact same taste when it comes to RPGs, he wasn't a big Fallout fan but he loves old school CRPGs like the BG series and Icewind Dale, just like me.

    I think the only thing I MIGHT be slightly disappointed about is the cliché game world but hell it's a Fantasy RPG what can you expect? Besides I enjoy generic fantasy...

  • dagas #89 2 years ago

    The entire text seems be one long criticism of the game. I almost expected a 3/10 score at the end of all that negativity. Seems the reviewer was expecting a Bethesda game and not a Bioware game and then was dissapointed when he realized it wasn't a Bethesda game. Don't just listen to EG. Giantbomb gave it 5/5 and Gamespot gave it 9.5/10. If you like Bioware games I bet you'll like this game.

  • Nightbite #90 2 years ago

    I've got to say - that was a 6-7 review, with an incongruous 8 score. I'd normally buy an 8 game, no problem, especially when it's from an excellent developer, but there's no way I'd buy a game with a review like that - sounds like 100 hours of "meh" to me. Too many good games around these days to waste those hours on something uninteresting. Either the reviewers dissapointment at the game not being fantastic skewed the review into doing an injustice to a very good game, or the reviewer was too scared to stick a 7 on it for some reason.

    For my part, when I played it on the 360 in the expo, I agree with the written element of the review - it's clearly polished, but totally unoriginal, and extrememly dry.

  • kdoggdayton #91 2 years ago

    damn EG is pushing out some bizarre reviews lately.. If this is what the PC version got I can't imagine the consoles getting a great score when you consider no top down view for big battles, tougher controls for gameplay, etc.... well we'll just have to wait and see.

  • poorwretch #92 2 years ago

    I got into the review knowing it was an 8/10 and I kept reading for three pages, waiting for the huge redeeming factors that would make what I was reading about the game equal to what the score was saying. They never came, unless you count the last 2 lines.
    I don't know who I should trust the reviewer or the person that scored the game (I have a nagging suspicion they are not the same person).

    I started reading Eurogamer because some respected reviewers (like Kieron Gillen & and John Walker) I knew and trusted from PC Gamer started writing reviews from this site, but I believe its been long since the site has lost sight of what its supposed to do, that is act as a guide to the people reading as to whether they should part with their hard earned money to buy the product they are reviewing.

    I really don't trust them anymore they gave Eye Pet 6/10 say among other things its not challenging enough (as if it was meant to be played by a hardcore COD 4 addict), but after experiencing the game the way its supposed to be played i.e. with your kids or nephews and nieces all around you, its clear to me now it was a 10/10 experience.
    All the while they are saying DAO can be too difficult, for game that is supposed to be aimed at the hardcore, and this is the PC REVIEW aimed at people that sometimes spent more time upgrading and tweaking a game to play perfectly on their system than actually playing the game itself.

    Honesty I don't know what to make of this site anymore.

    Sorry for the long post.

  • Irutehe #93 2 years ago

    I've been playing this game last night from 12 to 3:40 in the morning and I have a job so I had to get up at 8. It sure sucks you in and time flies by. It all comes down to how much you are entertained about the game and let me tell you I was very. Not so much in the morning but that's well worth it.
    The game start fast and before long you find yourself killing mobs. I must say I enjoyed every dialog line so far and although some of them do tend to be a little cheesy its only understandable. The only downside to the dialogs is that you have no voice but that's how Bioware do their games so no surprises here.
    Combat is very much mmo like, where auto attacks have the most damage at least for the warrior I choose to play first.
    I recommend this game to any RPGer out there. FPS fans will get bored of it and probably the reviewer falls into that category.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 10:14

  • TheSnotGoblin #94 2 years ago

    I really don't get the comments on the difficulty (From a few reviewers now). I've been playing this through on hard (Hurray for shopkeepers who break release!) and have yet to encounter any major troubles. If you've spent any amount of time at Baldur's Gate you should know what to expect (So far it's certainly easier than BG1). Have these reviewers gotten so used to action RPGs that they've lost the skill set to play these kind of games? In terms of gameplay DA has more in common with a strategy like Total War than your Elder Scrolls. All about troop position and fatigue management innit :D

    I said it yesterday in the Risen thread but Eurogamer are definitely not my go-to guys for RPGs these days. Perfect scores for Fable 2, Oblivion and Fallout 3 whilst being very luke-warm with things like the Witcher, Mass Effect and Risen (Which was no great shakes but better than they give it credit for) just doesn't tally with my opinion at all.

    Which is cool. They like what they like. They just consistantly don't like what I like. No big deal, I'm still enjoying the game and they're still harvesting lots of ad revenue. Everyone's happy :D

  • udat #95 2 years ago

    I've thought Bioware were on a long, slow slide from greatness for a while now.

    Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights were fantastic. I also loved KOTOR, but Jade Empire was not as engaging as their previous work. I just didn't care as much about the characters or the story. Mass Effect started well, I loved the Citadel, and then descended into either a series of incredibly repetetive side quests, or a very short main story thread. Outside your party, there weren't enough interesting characters, and those there were you could barely talk to. Again, I just didn't care as much about any of them as much as I did about Aribeth in NWN for example.

    I played The Witcher recently, and I enjoyed it immensely, and it was the world, and it's character, that drew me in. This review makes me think DA:o is missing some of that vital spark. I guess I'll find out when I buy it, but I might buy it later rather than sooner.

  • kdoggdayton #96 2 years ago

    Gamespot scores: PC: 9.5. PS3: 9.0. XBOX 8.5

  • hiddenranbir #97 2 years ago

    Generic Age confirmed. But to be honest, we saw this coming when Bioware desperately tried to make it out as if they created something fresh in the fantasy genre. "look, Elves aren't at the top, we're so different and gritty!"

    Still, the fact this can be modded more than BG shows promise to finally create a realised world!

  • Evolution #98 2 years ago

    This review pretty much reflects how I feel about Bioware games. Well polished games that I keeping playing inspite of the blandness.

  • darkmorgado #99 2 years ago

    So the game is heavy on dialogue and exposition, and is criticised for it? Hell, I remember when detailed stories and world-building was a good thing. Heavy dialogue and exposition didn't stop Planescape from being one of the best RPGs ever made, did it? Hell, it's celebrated BECAUSE of it.

    And a complaint because battles are challenging? Just because a game has the same perspective as Diablo doesn't mean you can play it like that. Comparing this game to Fallout or Oblivion is ridiculous, because they were totally different breeds of RPG. Fallout and Oblivion are immediate, visceral, button-mashing with paper-thin plots laid over vast but empty worlds. This sounds EXACTLY like a sequel to BG2, which I have played again, and again, and again to the tune of over 1000+ hours (around 200 each playthrough).

    Quite frankly, after Mass Effect (which was an utter mess and incredibly short and shallow, story-wise - hope ME2 is better), it's nice that Bioware have gone back to a deeper, longer and more involved experience.

  • Tomo #100 2 years ago

    Ok, I've read the review now and I don't really see what the kerfuffle is about. Seems like most places have been gushing over this, which is great, but this review highlights some of the things which don't work (in his opinion) and marks it down slightly. Once again, I'm with Lou on this one.

    Besides, Oli was right on the money with MGS4 and you all know it.

  • Tomo #101 2 years ago

    Lots of dialogue is good, if it's done properly. If there's dialogue for the sake of padding out some 60 hour fantasy epic, then yes, it's a load of balls.

  • Bazfrag #102 2 years ago

    "Gamespot scores: PC: 9.5. PS3: 9.0. XBOX 8.5"

    Thats it! Just find a site with scores high enough to not get butthurt over... thats how its done right? *sigh.

  • TheSnotGoblin #103 2 years ago

    @ darkmorgado

    Eurogamer's Planescape review was a little off too. Marking it down because you can't die is kind of missing the point. Though that's the same reviewer who gave Mafia a 4/10.

    Whatever happened to Gestalt anyway? Is he still here writing under his real name (Assuming his parents didn't christen him that)?

    EDIT: Neg repped! Gestalt!! Is that you? :D
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 10:43

  • Jockie #104 2 years ago

    Hmm, normally I trust Eurogamer with it's scores and critique. But this is Dragon Age, I've been waiting for the bloody thing for 3 years so I'm going to put my fingers in my ears (eyes?) and pretend I didn't read this, then find out for myself this thursday.

  • w00t #105 2 years ago

    Well, I for one shall spout opinions as if I have completed the game ;)

    Nah, not really. Cannot wait for this :)

  • davisorle #106 2 years ago

    The game is amazing for the specific genre. Its an RPG, Baldur's Gate / Dungeon Siege type which is innovating and too smart. Its the closest experience you can get to an MMO but offline, if you know what I mean.. You have full control of the whole group by pausing, Tanking ( well not in the best way but works ), healing, stunning with your rogue etc. I love the fact that you can do whatever you wished the damn rogue/priest/tank had done to not cause a wipe in a dungeon in WoW for example.

    The game is awesome to a point i didn't expect. This is the best you can get and play till Diablo 3 ( which i dont know by how far it will keep value over time as a game anymore but thats another subject.. ). I love the skills for the game, the different settings for each class you sellect and introduces you to the game and the fact it has a feel of all the good MMOs while you play ( those who have tried the following will know). You get the feeling that it has the good elements from Lotro, AoC and ofc WoW ta least in just this game which is not even online. I think Bioware nailed it for what they were aiming for and its the most worth its money game for me cause it will also not finish withn a few hours of hardcore gaming.

    P.S. I have nothing against the reviewers since it all comes down to everything being a matter of taste cause we simply cant all like the same kind of damn games, like it or not. But as a reviewr dont accept to review kind of games that you cant apreciate. If you did love Diablo when it came out then you would appreciate this game as well way too much for its mechanics. I do seem to get the feeling that all of the reviewers on this website are console gamers and have no experience in further gaming whatso ever and why they cant enjoy any RPGs. Yeah, Bioware's other RPG ( / action ) Mass Effect is at leat a 9.5/10 for me but thats a kind of game aproachable from mostly everyone. This title of theirs wasnt aiming the exact audience but that doesnt make it any less of a good game. Anyhow, I hope im understood.My poor english dont help some times.

  • Skurmedel #107 2 years ago

    darkmorgado: Do you mean Fallout 3 or Fallout? Original Fallout can't exactly be blamed for wafer-thin story... it is the Lord of the Rings of postapocalyptic games.

  • darkmorgado #108 2 years ago

    @TheSnotGoblin,

    Having only been reading this site for a year, I hadn't read the EG review of Planescape before. Marking it down because you can't die is not just missing the point, its running past it at full-pelt until you reach another galaxy.

    Not being able to die was the whole point of the game!

  • Quint2020 #109 2 years ago

    I definitely agree with people complaining about the "maturity" (from what I've seen anyway), blood, gore and sex does not make a mature piece of fiction, unless you're a 14 year old male with raging hormones.

    Then again I've not even played the game and know nothing about the story, I'm hoping there's some strong, well written characters, a sprinkling of political intrigue and a dash of racial tension in there.... mmmm, delicious!
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 10:51

  • cianchristopher #110 2 years ago

    Nice review, I'm excited about this! I like the look of the setting, and I don't expect naturalistic acting performances in a video game.

    I don't mind the sex and violence, and never expected them to be handled flawlessly. That's impossible to do in videogames at this stage in the life of the medium!

    It's just an epic fantasy rpg with loads to see and do and lots of battles and loot and levelling-up and dialogue choices and all that I love about rpgs! Rock on!

  • Turrican #111 2 years ago

    I think the review is thought provoking, and even though I hoped the game would be perfect I am glad to see that a site won't automatically rave about the bigger games of the year if they have noticable faults (please be just as critical with Modern Warfare 2).

    Too many times in the past have big releases blinded reviewers and in the following weeks you see the community immpression is less favourable. I applaud the note of caution raised, as I loved Mass Effect and think that Bioware have set a high standard for themselves that they must be reminded to keep to.

    That being said, I quite like the dialogue and harder difficulties so expect to enjoy this, and will purchase it - a nice winter time filler as the nights draw in and I have The Witcher waiting for me afterwards!

    Final point, I agree with others who have slightly criticised the review for holding up Fallout 3 and Oblivion as shining examples of RPG greatness, my personal experience was that they were quite uninspiring.

  • Bazfrag #112 2 years ago

    @Turrican. Horses for courses etc.

  • kdoggdayton #113 2 years ago

    Bazfrag you tit I was curious to see how the PC version scored differently to the console versions and Gamespot is the only site that has all 3 scores.

  • spudsbuckley #114 2 years ago

    This was around the score i expected. It was never going to be as good as BG/IWD. I felt it looked like a fantasy version of KOTOR to be honest.

    I'll pick it up when it drops in price for sure but i'm happy enough to stick to the surprisingly good NWN 2 for now.

  • TheComedian #115 2 years ago

    was anyone else massively surprised about the 8 after that massive bitch fest? something tells me the reviewer didn't have the balls to give it a 7.

  • Tyranix #116 2 years ago

    An artifact from a time when games required dedication and care to get in to and eventually complete.

    In an age of 8 hour single player, of brainless multiplayer strafing, of tutorials and ease, does Dragon Age Origins have a place?

    Damn right it does.

  • sneetch #117 2 years ago

    "In its desperation to infuse this setting with "maturity" - be it of the sober, political kind, or the game's painfully clumsy gore and sex"

    Glancing through the review as I pretend to work today, I have to say I agree with this if with nothing else, the gore and (yet more) cringe-worthy sex seems out of place to me in this game, sure if you hit someone in the face with a sword then the blood will fly but I reckon people will wipe their faces before having an audience with the elven king. But that's "maturity" in games for you: boobehs, blood and limb-loss. I bet someone says - hang on, let me make sure teacher isn't near - fuck in it too!

    What is presented in games is not "maturity" by any stretch it's just explicit images and language.

    Anyway, was going to buy it either way, it's getting great reviews elsewhere.

  • darkmorgado #118 2 years ago

    @Skurmedel

    I meant Fallout 3.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved Fallout 3 (as my savefile of 150 hours attests), but the story was incredibly short, shallow and dull, and Bethesda seem to have a habit of just copy-pasting locations with slightly different layouts (the caves in oblivion, the subways in Fallout 3).

    Fallout 1 and 2 were, and are, far superior to Fallout 3. I really, really hope that Obsidian improves things with Fallout: New Vegas.

    Since Morrowind, Bethesda does seem to have lost its way and gone for quantity over quality - massive open worlds with nothing to do is NOT superior to a tightly-focussed, well-written experience. Much of Fallout 3 was just spent wandering around, which was great to start with - but everywhere ended up looking the same because there was no variety in anything (New Eden excepted).

  • anomagnus #119 2 years ago

    jstar

    As i mentioned, i rarely comment on reviews, unless they're a special case, and this one reeks of it.

    I am hardly the only person on this thread that has commented on the nature of the review, and the score not meeting the review itself. There's a huge gap between 8/10 and and what has been written about in this review.

    Now, you talk about sites being respected, this site has sacrificed any respect it had, only topped of with the crowning failure that was the Darkfall review, which served to highlight how far this site has fallen.

    I simply don't understand how the review process has become so flawed on this site.

    As for the other sites, are you somehow suggesting that this site is not biased or flawed? EG has become HORRIBLY flawed, in every regard. It seeks hits like a like a junkie. More than that, you've had several people in this thread explain how much they have enjoyed the game. Goggle some reviews from other sites, to see the difference between their review and this EG review.

    My problem is that once again, EG has taken a position that not only doesn't match other sites, it doesn't even match its own review!

    As for liking something, simply because i mention them, that's piss poor reasoning. I mention this site, but i hardly have respect for it. I simply try and get more than one review. You seem content to swallow what ever is pushed to by EG, thats your business, but i dont take my information from one source, and create a view from it. Had you even bothered to read what i had said, you've have seen i was advocating the very opposite, in taking in multiple sources of information to create a view.

    This site is fucked from a review perspective, but i doubt you'll even contemplate that, as yet one more of ever dwindling EG rabid fanbois.

    I want this game, but would have had more respect for the site had they just give it 6/10, but they couldn't even do that.

    While you're on your high horse Jstar, would you like to address the other posters that have expressed concern with the nature of the review?

    Unlike you, i'll make an informed decision, not based on the incongruous writings of a man that doesn't seem to like RPG's

  • siro #120 2 years ago

    Eg.de gave it a 10/10 with two reviewers comparing it to the second coming of Jesus that makes any previous attempt at RPGs stale and bland.

    What I find funny is, that I knew absolutely nothing about the game before this review, and it has been the same thing with Mass Effect, which came out of nowhere for me as well. I must have some kind of BioWare game preview shielding.

  • RedSparrows #121 2 years ago

    Anomagus, why would an 8/10 draw hits? 6/10 would, more likely.

    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 11:10

  • jonnyboyband #122 2 years ago

    You spend the two last paragraphs bashing the game... and then you give it an 8? Please give high profile games low scores when they deserve them.

  • kingcrude #123 2 years ago

    i think a lot of people were expecting more from this game so the review had to cover what not to expect. 8/10 is still good but i think people were expecting a 9 or 10 so the negatives had to be explained. anyway, if you read the review, a lot of people dont mind the issues (like the ones present in mass effect, oblivion) so you as th gamer can probably add on an extra point anyway. reviews should be read in context as to your own prefreneces

  • Gecks #124 2 years ago

    it's a shame that lately there doesn't seem to be a middle ground between the (relatively) hardcore stat-orgy of dragon age and the charm and heart of persona 4.

  • TravisTouchdown #125 2 years ago

    @anomagnus: Just one question. If, as you say, EG's reviews are beyond redemption ("this site is fucked from a review perspective";) why would you possibly get so wound up by one of them? Serious question, not having a dig - I'm genuinely interested. You've actually been rather eloquent in your posts here today; I hope you'll afford me the same courtesy.

  • Diogo_Ribeiro #126 2 years ago

    I'm still stunned as to how people blindly salute reviews. Why should Eurogamer have to keep in line with or "match" other reviews? It's Eurogamer, not IGN's sister site, Gamespot's companion piece or somesuh. Reviews are opinions. You either take them in or you don't. If you already have other reviews darling you up with their scores, then why bother with different opinions on the same game if they are apparently so insulting to you? Even reviews with similar scores are not similar in their writing, tone or perspectives. If you want reviews to be a totalitarian think-tank with little in the way of expression and interpretation, stick to Metacritic. Read those numbers and coo at the criticis that agree with you all you want, but don't demand other journalists to dance to the same tune simply because you can't be arsed to accept opinions - even when hung by similar scores - are never unanimous.

  • Hantheman #127 2 years ago

    @Dragon_Age_GOTY

    You're name suggests a huge amount of bias tbf.

  • Shinetop #128 2 years ago

    I can understand the "soulless" criticism from the review, I guess. When I saw that video of two characters bumping uglies, all it came across as was two corpses with expressionless faces having sex. The entire scene, which is based solely on emotion, was entirely devoid of emotion. Reading this review, it seems like the rest of the game folllows that trend, so I doubt I'd enjoy it. Either a pass or waiting for the bargain bin, I guess.

  • Widge #129 2 years ago

    That is the best name I've seen since Metal_Gear_Solid_4_GOTY

  • Diogo_Ribeiro #130 2 years ago

    Yeah man, like, because, only shining reviews are real. All those others, man, they're like fakin' and posing, amirite? Keepin' it real, dawgs!

  • silentbob #131 2 years ago

    There's a very simple way to solve the endless "it read like .." comments. Skip to the end of the review and peek at the score, then go back and read it from scratch. Sorted.

  • spudsbuckley #132 2 years ago

    Wait, there's sex in this game?

    NOTE TO DEVS:

    Sex in games is just downright embarrassing. It's pretty much the same concept as hentai for fuck's sake.

  • butler` #133 2 years ago

    way too much time spend shunning it as a drab mess for an 8

  • Diogo_Ribeiro #134 2 years ago

    @squarejawhero: XD

    I mean, sorry to hear about that.

    I mean, XD

  • Mr_Sleep #135 2 years ago

    I'm sure there's just sex in the game to bait fox news into giving them lots of free promotion.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 11:45

  • darkmorgado #136 2 years ago

    @Dragon_Age_GOTY

    EG gave it a shit score? Really? 8/10 is shit is it?

    Moron.

  • Slabbathepave #137 2 years ago

    Numbers are irrelevant. Its description is that of a mediocre and uninspiring game, that has only longevity going for it. I'll pass.

  • spekkeh #138 2 years ago

    I think this highly schizophrenic review is just a way of depicting the schizophrenia inherent in the game. It's basically toss but so much effort has been put into it that is should deserve a high mark regardless.

    Otherwise it would be just weird, right?

  • velimirius #139 2 years ago

    eurogamer have worst reviews,so i dont rly care what is written here.

  • Azazel #140 2 years ago

    Yet again a great mass of drooling fools fail to comprehend where exactly a given number lies on the 1 - 10 scale.

    And lo the sun rose and set and it was another day.

  • madtentacle #141 2 years ago

    at last! Someone dares point a finger at the disappointing sides of this game. This only means I won't be severely disappointed when I start playing it.

    I loved Oblivion, for example, but would have liked it even more if someone had explained it's shortcomings before I played it. When someone lends you a dvd and tells you it's the best movie they've ever seen, you always get disappointed.

    Now that I know what to expect, I might get pleasantly surprised.
    Edit: concerning the score, I somehow feel the review text is mostly to point out some important flaws in the game, and I think he liked the game more than the review text gives him credit for. High hopes, perhaps?
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 12:28

  • Jonny5Alive7 #142 2 years ago

    I agree with a lot of the comments, the review makes it sound like and average game at best and yet it gets an 8? Sounds more like a 6 or at a push 7.

  • neems #143 2 years ago

    I'm not gonna read the entire comments thread, just dipping my toes in I can feel an aneurysm approaching.

    Speaking as an occasional crpg player (who hasn't played Dragon Age at all) I thought this a rather good review (and I am not a Eurogamer apologist, I happen to love Risen). For what it's worth, before the score came up I thought '8, maybe 7' and lo and behold...

    The review didn't strike me as all that negative. There was a fairly lengthy discussion of some negative aspects, but to my mind length does not equate to severity. It basically seemed to boil down to 'Dragon Age is huge, polished, sometimes engrossing, but ultimately somewhat generic and lacking in atmosphere.' (I wonder how much influence the corporate grindstone that is EA had there.) How much that would impact on the final score is presumably a matter of taste. Unlike books and films, computer games can succeed on a purely (or largely) mechanical basis.

    As to difficulty, I don't believe Mr Welsh claimed the game was too hard, merely that there was too great a difference between easy and normal. You could easily read it as meaning that easy mode was too easy.

    And yes, rightly or wrongly, like it or not, modern CRPGs are going to be compared to Oblivion. It's a big, famous, multi-million selling RPG. It would probably be weird if they didn't mention it.

    tl/dr

  • GamesConnoisseur #144 2 years ago

    People, if you are actually that angry and really totally dislike EG reviewing approach? Why are you coming back for more punishment?

    EG doesn't always score games too 'low' but more of our own individual taste differing with the opinon of the reviewer of the day?

    Much easier to do away with scores? Change it to out of 5 stars rating? NONE of them are without cons including scoreless option!

    Nobel prize was awarded to someone for mathematically proving there could not be a perfect democratic model or similar. If you do honestly prefers different site and to avoid this one.

    You can do this. Though if you are providing critical or constructive feedbacks in hope that EG would consider the views of readers, such as how number and content seems to come across as being quite different to each other.

    That I ll concur what seem to look like. Ellie did say after writing her article, she hestitated and dithered over what final score to put as which would best reflects her opinion of the game. So it may all be just arbitary and no perfect science! You can always write your own reviews here!

  • darkmorgado #145 2 years ago

    @Azazel,

    Haven't I seen you recently in Tekken?

    Kicked your arse if I remember ;-)

  • Shinetop #146 2 years ago

    There was a sex scene in Mafia?

    I remember my parents walking in on the Phantasmagoria rape scene.

  • mingster #147 2 years ago

    I think its important Eurogamer point out the bad sides to the game.
    I'd be disapointed buying something after reading a glowing positive 10/10 review, only to find bits about the game that annoy me.

  • spudsbuckley #148 2 years ago

    I have a feeling that this game will come down in price rapidly on digital distribution services and by the middle of next week you be able to pick it up pre-owned no problem.

    I'm kinda on the fence about so hat's when i'm getting it anyway :D

  • Zero22 #149 2 years ago

    God this thread is infuriating me. As I posted earlier, the game is absolutely AMAZING if you liked Baldurs gate, Mass effect, or Kotor. Go read every other review on meta critic. It just keeps getting better and better the further into it I get. I really wish I didn't have to go to sleep now =(. I'm getting closer and closer to saying this game is an all time classic the more I play it, HOWEVER I am playing it on the PC and I do believe that the console versions are quite inferior graphically and chug a bit. Gamespot (9.5 score) suggests the console versions are also easier. My main point of contention is that with this type of RPG I would /wrist before playing it on a console. The controls are just infinitely superior on the PC ( and before anyone says it, I own a xbox 360 and love the system).

    In sum : If you like games, if you like Bg 1/2, mass effect, kotor at ALL, then GO BUY THIS GAME. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS REVIEW. People will see for themselves soon enough. It's definitely RPG of the year, based on the PC version.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 12:59

  • Malazan #150 2 years ago

    This is the only negative review I have seen so far on the net for this game and the reviewer still gave it an 8!

  • spudsbuckley #151 2 years ago

    If you like games, if you like Bg 1/2, mass effect, kotor at ALL

    ME and KOTOR were very different games than the BG series which is why they weren't nearly as good.

  • Zero22 #152 2 years ago

    Let me explain. The dialogue/how choices work/cinematics are just like ME and KoToR, in that sense it has these elements in abundance. The gameplay itself screams Baldur's Gate 3. They just took all the best elements of all their past games and loaded them all beautifually into Dragon Age. The only people who would be disappointed are probably people who do not enjoy the tactical/pause style combat of the BG/Icewind Dale series, but even for them they can play the game on Easy and still get a lot out of the game imo.

  • jonfon #153 2 years ago

    @spudsbuckley
    "Sex in games is just downright embarrassing. It's pretty much the same concept as hentai for fuck's sake."

    Generally yes. In the case of The Witcher, absolutely yes.I almost wet myself laughing when the collectable pictures pop in during "snuggle-time" with your various conquests (the one of the Witch with the appropriately placed, erm, feline is hilarious).

    As for all the furore why does a number matter so much to people. And when did an "8" become a low score? I'll be getting this (finishing the Witcher first which I'm really enjoying, hilarious OTT dialogue and silly sex scenes and all).

  • thedaveeyres #154 2 years ago

    All this nerd rage over an already high score.... pathetic.

  • Zero22 #155 2 years ago

    I would just hate to see anybody miss the RPG of the year based off this one review. Some of us have been waiting 5 years for this game and it was well worth the wait.

  • thedaveeyres #156 2 years ago

    You think people aren't going to buy the game because, according to EG's scoring system, they rated it as only 'Very Good'? O_o

  • Zero22 #157 2 years ago

    Look at the first 100 posts =p.

    The xbox 360 version seems to not be quite up to par unfortunately though.

  • darkmorgado #158 2 years ago

    I'm still waiting for Pro_Gamer to appear on the thread and proclaim Dragon Age to be a terrible shooter.

  • chrisola #159 2 years ago

    Since it's been reviewed on a PC, a note about the performance of the game and it's specs would be helpful.

    I'm buying this game (i have a pc, 360 and PS3) , but not sure if my pc will run it, its somewhere between the min and recommended specs...

    Decisions!
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 13:22

  • Widge #160 2 years ago

    Pro_gamer to appear and declare this to be another mediocre PS3 exclusive.

  • kingmong #161 2 years ago

    @spekkeh

    for your future reference: schizophrenic doesn't mean what you think it does...

  • darkmorgado #162 2 years ago

    @chrisola, I'm guessing it should run fine on a medium-spec PC. Most Bioware games in the past have had fairly low system requirements. I'm getting it on PC - can't contemplate the idea of playing the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate on a console, and I don't want to miss out on the inevitable mountain of user-made mods.

  • Orange #163 2 years ago

    I just can't take EG's RPG reviews seriously, they are such poor quality.

  • darkmorgado #164 2 years ago

    Interesting, there seems to be some stealth-negging going on with comments pointing out the idiocy of trolls.

  • Fleeby #165 2 years ago

    "Nor is there anything inherently dull and derivative about elves, dragons and dwarves."

    Eh?

  • spekkeh #166 2 years ago

    @kingmong

    I'm a psychologist and know quite well there's a discrepancy in using schizophrenic in the medical and the popular sense. But sure, multiple personality syndrome (which scientifically speaking probably doesn't even exist either).

  • Fleeby #167 2 years ago

    @spekkeh

    Well said.

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #168 2 years ago

    i do actually worry about the day something important ever needs to be discussed, altho admittedly that wouldnt ever be on the EG comments/forums thankfully :)

  • jonfon #169 2 years ago

    @squarejawhero "According to one review, where it said the framerate was better on the 360 anyway. Sheesh. If we're going to nitpick then we might as well say the other reviews didn't mention difference, or said it was better. Hearsay and conjecture have no place here!"

    Eh? What? Tis a semi-anonymous Comments Thread on d'internet. Where else are we going to put all the hearsay, conjecture and petty arguments? They have to go somewhere.

  • darkmorgado #170 2 years ago

    I like that there is apparently an Autistic dwarf trader in the game. Will be interesting to see how accurately they depict autism.

  • kingmong #171 2 years ago

    @spekkeh: sorry for the nit-picking. my point was that I don't think you hit the general usage of the term. a game that has high production values but falls short in immersion would not seem schizo to me. a game in which tone, plot or production vary drastically from one pole to the other would (ihmo)

    i don't know how you'd describe a game that hit the clinical definition, but it would be interesting to play :-)
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 13:57

  • darkmorgado #172 2 years ago

    @kingmong

    a game that has high production values but falls short in immersion would not seem schizo to me.

    True. I'd classify it as Paris Hilton.

    She's a mental illness, right?

  • kangarootoo #173 2 years ago

    Some of you people are mental. 8/10 is a very good score.

    What would it take to make you happy? 12/10?

  • Bazfrag #174 2 years ago

    @kdog. My apologies. I wasn't singling you out, I was just using your post as an example. I obviously misinterpreted your post! Again, sorry.

  • jonfon #175 2 years ago

    @darkmorgado : "@kingmong

    a game that has high production values but falls short in immersion would not seem schizo to me.

    True. I'd classify it as Paris Hilton.

    She's a mental illness, right?"

    I thought she was a self-aware (well semi-self-aware) STD?

  • groovychainsaw #176 2 years ago

    Anyone got any ideas how well this plays on the xbox/ps3? I'd love a digital foundry thing comparing all 3 versions before it came out, would help my decision making no end. I'm concerned about the difficulty thing after both Oli and the PC Gamer review (up online today too, written by John Walker, and a good counterpoint to some of Oli's points) mention easy being too easy on the PC and normal being pretty damn hard at times (whilst I've completed all bioware's previous games fairly easily, I don't have time for difficulty spikes nowadays). Other review suggest the console combat is dumbed down because they don't offer the isometric view. Sounds significantly different from that point of view, and has me concerned. Any suggestions on which to get chaps? I do like playing on the sofa with a pad in hand....

  • Azazel #177 2 years ago

    @darkmorgado:

    Twasn't I!

  • SheffieldSteel #178 2 years ago

    An excellent review. The apparent conflict between the text and the score forces the reader to actually think about what it might mean (or go with one of the available knee-jerk responses, I suppose).

    For example, you might ask yourself if the reviewer sees this as a hardcore RPG that's too flawed to be accessible to the masses (c.f. Risen), or a game with broad appeal that nevertheless may disappoint connoisseurs of the genre. From the text, I'm inclined to believe the latter. Of course there is a lot of criticism - clearly Oli was hoping for more from this game - but at the end of the day we have to remember that his criticism is subjective and aimed at the finer qualities of the game. I think the review score is an attempt to be more objective and quantify the game's true appeal.

    Overall, a difficult job well done, I think.

  • kendoji #179 2 years ago

    Seemed like a good review to me, and I like the fact that a reviewer can point out flaws in a game but still give it 8/10. In any case, I'll reserve any nerd rage I might have over the review until I've actually played the game myself. ;-)

  • drumbaby #180 2 years ago

    This reads like the old Official Playstation 2 mag's review of Tomb Raider AOD, where it pretty much slated the game but awarded it a high score.

    Weird.

    Cha-ching.

  • Bazfrag #181 2 years ago

    @Groovy: So far I have heard that xbox has worse textures and ps3 has a chuggy framerate. However some sources contradict that : / I cannot say 1st hand what is true. I never expect a Bioware game to be technically faultless anyway.
    I believe you heard correctly about there being no overhead view on consoles. This could irritate BG purists. (360 version but I assume that covers ps3 as well)

  • kangarootoo #182 2 years ago

    @drumbaby

    Not really. This review is constructive, pointing out the pros and cons of the game in detail.

    The Tomb Raider review that you are referring to was negative across the board, but then feebly justified the score by saying the game had "a certain undefinable something".

    That horrid low point for the industry of a review is nothing at all like this one.

  • ZuluHero #183 2 years ago

    So apart from losing the iso on the 360 - what else is different? Is it easier to contol on a 360 pad because you have less buttons? Are they mapped well? Is it more like Mass Effect on the 360? Can you use a 360 pad on the PC? Are the load times bad on the 360? The textures? Any more info to help me decide between the PC and 360 versions?

    I could run the chara creator on my PC with everything set to highest minues AA - and FRAPS was giving me 80fps plus - is this a good indication that it will run well?
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 15:01

  • geeza2020 #184 2 years ago

    I know its been said countless times, but i really dont understand why this was given an 8 when the text of the review reads more like a 6 0r 7 at best? /shrugs

  • the_dudefather #185 2 years ago

    Dragon age: oranges and apples

  • butler` #186 2 years ago

    geeza2020: i think it's called pandering to the publisher/metacritic brigade

    the review basically spends too much time premptively justifying itself vs. other, higher review scores, and ends up coming accross as overly negative.

  • Hypercube #187 2 years ago

    I've never understood the rage created in some people when a game they like doesn't get the score they think it deserves in a review.
    You like the game - surely your own opinion is as valid as a reviewer's? Or are these people so full of rage and self-loathing that any incident that can be perceived as a slight is cause for this outpouring of keyboard smashing?

    Anyway, I read the review, understood the criticisms, was able to assimilate the score into my world view without having an embolism, and might by this if I have the time.

    lol, assimilate.

  • mingster #188 2 years ago

    Read the review .. looked at the score.
    Review told me what i needed to know.
    Score summed it all up.
    Compared it to other review sites and metacritic and gamerankings.
    Made an informed decision to buy the game.
    Not exactly hard is it why are you all moaning.
    Infact all the moaners seem to be 300K_ UID's.
    Did you all just sign up to complain?

  • groovychainsaw #189 2 years ago

    Ta bazfrag, basically what I'm hearing - I would love someone to do a full-on comparison before launch, can't quite get the picture from reading around yet. Xbox supposed to have poorest graphics, but decent framerate, PS3 has better textures + effects (in a turnup for the books!) but worse framerate + more bugs, and PC is the best version, with more controls, camera views etc., but additional messing around required as all PC games do to work smoothly (I'm a perpetual tweaker of graphics). To be honest, I'm leaning heavily towards PC, but would love a comparison to push me back towards console so i can enjoy the couch-based run through, with slightly more third-person, FFXII-style hack and slashing (and this is from an old-time BG1 +2 fan! How my tastes have changed as I get older).

  • darkmorgado #190 2 years ago

    @Zuluhero,

    I don't think you can take the performance of the character creator on your computer as an indication of how the whole game will perform. The character creator is just a glorified menu, after all, whereas the full game has a fully-3d rendered world, spell effects, lighting, multiple characters on screen, AI, etc etc.

    The recommended specs for it seem pretty reasonable though.

  • thedaveeyres #191 2 years ago

    EG should put a little text input box before the start of reviews for the reader to type in their own score out of 10. Then after reading the review, that score is displayed at the bottom.

    Everybody's happy.

  • sneetch #192 2 years ago

    @Crofto
    To be honest, you should have had the balls to give it a 7/10 which the review clearly reads like... but I guess on Eurogamer this is as close to an honest review as you can get.

    It "clearly" reads as an 8.2 to me. 7 for you, 8.2 for me. How the hell is this possible?!? I can only conclude that you're being dishonest. Either that or it's just our opinion but that would be crazy.

    On an unrelated note has anyone seen my tinfoil hat?

  • kangarootoo #193 2 years ago

    @thedaveeyres

    A genius idea ;)

  • kangarootoo #194 2 years ago

    Another review that I just found.

    This one gives it a 9.4, so how about those with their knickers in a twist over the apparently low score of 8 just piss off over to this link and feel a while lot better about themselves as a result.

    http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...

  • coomber #195 2 years ago

    Oli's MGS4 review was the only one anywhere that was fair and wasn't affected by the hype and PR surrounding it. I suspect that is the case here.

    I really can't wait to see what the fanboys say when they see the (inevitably) lower console score.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 16:44

  • SleepyMagpie #196 2 years ago

    A lot have got their knickers in a twist over those of us mouthing concerns about the perceived disparity between the review text and the score at the end.

    Why?

    I for one am certainly not speaking up to be precious about it or have a go at Eurogamer. I was waiting for this review to make an informed decision whether to buy Dragon Age or not. But this disparity between text and score has me in two minds, and I'm betting several others feel that way too, many have voiced the same concerns.

    If you were able to read that review and make the 8/10 at the end fit, good for you. But I honestly think it doesn't.

    After comments like "Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game, or any game for that matter: vision, inspiration, soul", I cannot understand that this game scored an 8. In my neck of the woods an 8 is a very good game, maybe a bit derivative, with one or two borrowed ideas, one bad game mechanism among several brilliant perhaps - to stop it short of the 9. A 10 is the perfect game in it's genre, and has probably honestly never been seen.

    So what this disparity between score and text imparts is concern about the reviewer's integrity (though not his prudence in certain matters), and isn't a great cause for trust.

    See, I wanted to hear that Dragon Age was brilliant, like the majority of the gang here, but right now I don't know what's what. And please don't post Gamespot reviews to somehow illuminate us. o.O

  • Fillem #197 2 years ago

    I've not only been to huge cities, but I've learned their past, their present, and been involved in shaping their future. This hasn't felt like passing through a series of checkpoints, but having experienced a world. I know enough about the religion of the Chantry to preach their own Chants. My connection to the Grey Wardens is palpable, and the part I played an honourable one.

    This is the most enormously detailed game world I've experienced, its history stretching back thousands of years, its cultures vivid, beautiful and flawed, the battles enormous, the humour superb. Roleplaying games now have a great deal to live up to.

    From PC Gamer. Pretty much sounds very, very lovely to me :).

  • darc #198 2 years ago

    "this review read like the absolutely atrocious storm of zehir pack of NWN:2.
    Still want my money back for that one:( "

    I don't know what zehir means, but anybody who was appalled at NWN2 is OK in my book. Shame I can only press the + button once. :)

    Not sure DA will have the *same* issues though. NWN2 had severe mechanical, UI, and performance issues. I suspect DA will be more polished, but lack personality and pacing. I'm concerned it will veer more toward the KOTOR/Mass Effect end of the spectrum by being overly scripted and contrived.

    I guess I have more reading to do. I thought this game would be a no brainer but now I'm not sure I want to invest the time or the money. Especially the time.

  • kangarootoo #199 2 years ago

    What I can't understand is why the F*CK people get so peeved when a review score differs from their own opinion. What is WRONG with people that such a thing would annoy them. Is it a mental condition?

    Reviewing is not an exact science, neither is gaming taste and preference, so review scores will always differ and they will NEEEEEEEVER suit every reader. EVER.

    When people genuinely struggle to grasp that, when people try to argue as if a review score can actually be RIGHT or WRONG... I have to question their basic intelligence. Seriously.

  • darc #200 2 years ago

    Hahaha. Kangarootoo, are you still smarting from the Risen fallout? ;)

  • darc #201 2 years ago

    Any mention anywhere about stability and/or system requirements. Based on the screenshots I'm guessing I'll need to bundle a new video card and power supply with my order.

  • SleepyMagpie #202 2 years ago

    I for one have no trouble with Dragon Age receiving an 8 or a 6 for that matter - if the review text makes me believe it.

    I would like it to be a good game, definitely, but much more important than that is my desire to know if it is.

    Right now I don't. I don't have an opinion of the game yet, I can't, I haven't played it!

    Ack. Too much money in the game right now, too many mouths to feed, too many fanboys with nothing else to believe in, it's just not funny anymore.

    Sigh. Bring back the good old days before EA bought Origin.

  • Gaol #203 2 years ago

    "What I can't understand is why the F*CK people get so peeved when a review score differs from their own opinion"

    I think the only issue here is why the review score differs from the reviewer's opinion. It's still a good insightful review though imo.

  • sneetch #204 2 years ago

    @SleepyMagpie

    If this review doesn't convince you that the game is good for one reason or another then I sincerely recommend that you check out the other reviews on metacritic. It's what I do when I'm unsure about these things. There are currently a dozen reviews listed there (including this one) with a metascore of 92.

    http://ww w.metacritic.com/games/platform...

    In my neck of the woods an 8 is a very good game, maybe a bit derivative, with one or two borrowed ideas, one bad game mechanism among several brilliant perhaps - to stop it short of the 9. A 10 is the perfect game in it's genre, and has probably honestly never been seen.

    Well there's where you're at odds with Eurogamer: for them (and it's on their scoring policy page, the link is next to the review score) an 8 is a Very Good game, a 9 is Excellent but a 10 is Phenomenal but does not represent perfection.

    There's my problem with all the "it reads like a 6/7/8/9/10" stuff: people bring their own arbitrary notion of what a given score means to these reviews and then they're surprised that their arbitrary notion of a score is different to the reviewers notion. For me, the problems the reviewer lists are the reason it's "only" Very Good and not Excellent or Phenomenal, but even with the problems he has with the game it's still Very Good in his opinion.
    Edited by 2 at 03/11/09 @ 17:37

  • Dizzy #205 2 years ago

    Looks like EG will have new "Better than..." t-shirts this year.

  • budalic #206 2 years ago

    I found characters in oblivion very lifeless in conversation - they just stare into your eyes, head fixed, only blinking sometimes - but it might have been because I played it after Mass Effect.
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 17:25

  • butler` #207 2 years ago

    "What I can't understand is why the F*CK people get so peeved when a review score differs from their own opinion"

    what you can't understand is what the fuck people are even peeved about
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 17:34

  • immateriaux #208 2 years ago

    I have this on pre-Order and have read both prequel books, the first of which was quite good and the second, staid and ultimately quite boring. Interestingly, both times, I never felt I was really getting a sense of the "real" world in which the stories were being enacted. Instead it was a case of "he said that", "he went over there", "she stared steel-ily", "With steel, she stared", and so on. And that seems to strike a strong parallel here with the comments in the game review. Additionally, reading this comment:

    "The game's locations are cramped, dull and devoid of atmosphere, surrounded by invisible walls and fractured by loading times. There's no sense of a contiguous, believable world out there"

    ... really disappoints me. I had certainly hoped for more, more polish, more belief. And given the game was delayed, it should have more polish than that: I absolutely hated the invisible walls in Witcher and did not expect to see them again, this many years later in such a high profile release. If Bethesda can spirit away boundaries successfully, so should Bioware.

    Perhaps there will be some tweaks in coming weeks? For the moment I think I might park this and go play Risen instead.

  • JayG #209 2 years ago

    Most of the complaints about the score are people saying it should be lower on the basis of the review. 8 sounds reasonable enough to me. And if u are a fan of that type of genre, 8 should be enough to pick up the game. The issue i had with the Risen review was a pathetic 4 will make fan's of that genre avoid it, and the game deserves to be a success for those who enjoy that type of RPG. The re-review for PC gave it a 6, reasonable on the EG score chart, and a mark I was happy with. Kudo's to EG for listening.

  • kangarootoo #210 2 years ago

    @SleepyMagpie

    I have a perfect solution for you. Its a stunner. Here it comes.



    ..... ignore the score completely.

    That is it. Simple but perfect. No confusion. No issue. No grumpiness.

    Read the words of the review. Digest, analyse and assess their meaning. Turn them over in your mind. Consider the pros and cons described, and place these alongside your own deep knowledge of what you like and dislike in a game. And at the end of that process, form your opinion.

    You don't need the score.

    The very suggestion that confusion can result from any perceived disparity between words and score is a fiction. The words tell you everything, the score tells you as little as any single thing CAN tell you save for if it were replaced with an empty space.

    A score confuses nobody, it just gives ammunition to angry people :)
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 17:50

  • kangarootoo #211 2 years ago

    @darc

    That people take personal offense when reviews differ from their own preference is an endless source of bafflement for me :)

  • Sycopat #212 2 years ago

    Reads pretty well to me, on the supposed "disparity" between the score and the review, I would argue that it does sound like an 8. What i took from the review is "this is a very good game in a lot of ways, however it is missing that immersive spark that makes a good game great, and that lets it down"

  • Mr.DNA #213 2 years ago

    Dragon Age: Origins was without doubt the most anticipated RPG of 2009. It's been in production for over five years, and it is perhaps the most hyped game of 2009, with the possible exception of Modern Warfare 2. As such, the expectations surrounding it are absolutely huge.

    Games that no-one has ever heard of, but which receive a score of "8", necessarily read far more positively than games which recieve a similar score, but were expected to score a "10". It really is no surprise that a game which is very, very good, but which was expected to be a 10/10 fuck-me-this-game-is-the-best-thing-since-sliced-bread, has a significant amount of the review text slating it for not being the be-all-and-end-all that many expected it to be. The reason that the review "reads like a 6" for many people is because they are not taking the game's highly-anticipated context into consideration.

  • sarcasmoidosis #214 2 years ago

    "Stole" it last night, installed it, loved it. Waiting for my damn CE to arrive. Yep, it's an 8 that reads like a 6 for a game that sounded like a 10. Big deal.

  • darc #215 2 years ago

    Funny thing, I just read the bit tech review (http://ww w.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2009/1... and it's like deja vu all over again. The review itself is totally meh, and they tack an 8 at the end. I think the game is winning some points just by virtue of its massive scope. When a game is this big, it can't *all* be good, maybe?

    But toward the bottom of the 3rd page (those bittech guys arent afraid of a little verbosity) a few comments have me concerned that DA will have too much in common with both NWN2 and the Witcher. This is looking like a game that I'll only buy once I'm in a drought otherwise. I wish I could rent the XBox version and make up my own mind that way, but I get the impression that the XBox version is significantly diminished in terms of view options etc.

  • fluff_the_tiger #216 2 years ago

    So is this game good or not?

    The review was all over the place.

  • Scimarad #217 2 years ago

    The whole 'score disparity' thing probably comes down to how important you see the negatives being. I was rather hoping for a review that says the videos are misleading but what he actually said (reading between the lines) is that they are fairly representative. I my own personal opinion a game with those flaws wouldn't get an 8 but that is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.

    Oh and 'anomagus', I've been an RPG fan since Champions of Krynn and Phantasy Star so don't hurt yourself jumping to those conclusions.

  • darc #218 2 years ago

    Yeah, I think that's everyone's concern. Not so much that they disagree with the 8 (too few among us own the game yet, so how could we), but rather that they're mystified by it. If everything in the text is true, then either a) there's also something really special to this game that wasn't sufficiently conveyed, or b) the reviewer finished the game a little confused himself, perhaps thinking he should have liked this AAA title more than he really did, so he picked a nice safe 8. The latter possibility puts me off a little. But there are other opinions available. (bittech aside, as they exhibit the same problem, really.)
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 18:35

  • fluff_the_tiger #219 2 years ago

    Oli Welsh wrote the MGS4 review?

    Sod it then, I'm going to buy it, I quite like stories in games as long as they are interesting.

  • fluff_the_tiger #220 2 years ago

    Well I doubt there will be anything like PS:T for a while, but even with a generic story I don't mind as long as it's well told.

    Mind you persona 4 is pretty weird...

  • dylman #221 2 years ago

    Hmm, interesting read. Still a day one purchase for me I think. Although I will be turning the gore down from 11 immediately (or installing a no-gore mod if I can't).
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 19:09

  • Shrike #222 2 years ago

    Review sounds fair. However, most of the same criticisms can be applied to everything else Bioware has ever done (rose-tinted glasses off for a second), and I love Bioware, so I guess they're not perfect but that's okay because they make a product that I like. I guess I will purchase it then.

    I'm really glad I had this conversation with myself or I could have had some kind of aneurysm.

  • Machiavellian #223 2 years ago

    I continue to not understand why so many people put so much stock on one reviewer opinion. It doesn't matter how great a game may be not everyone will accept it as such. For every person that thought that Uncharted 2 was great, I have read other people opinion that it was unoriginal and only average. The thing I do is find reviewers who likes are close to my own and go from there. Its hard to know from reading someone opinion if what they consider a negative is as important to you when you play the game.

  • Bremenacht #224 2 years ago

    Well, at least it's not as bad as Darkfall.

  • spengos #225 2 years ago

    So at the end of all this what do we have.. an 8 out of 10.

    That's an 8 out of 10 from Oli Welsh. The guy has only given one game a perfect score and that was WoW, so for him to give a game an 8(and an RPG for that matter) it can't be that bad.

    As for all the negative comments throughout the review, this is a Bioware game and we all know they can be a bit Marmite. There's not one Bioware game out there that doesn't have it's faults. But nearly every one of them has that special something and I'm looking forward to finding out for myself if DAO is another classic. Sod everyone elses opinions, they're just guidelines. Play the game for yourself, it's the only sure way to tell.

  • w00t #226 2 years ago

    I swear the average IQ on the planet woud increase by a point if there was a selective culling of this thread :)

    YES, SOME OF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE IQS

  • ASHBERY76 #227 2 years ago

    Eurogamer upset me with the terrible Witcher review years back and now again with this poor effort.

    Get a real RPG reviewer :(

  • SheffieldSteel #228 2 years ago

    Oooh, I almost forgot to say: Thank you Eurogamer for making it clear from the beginning that this is a review of the PC version.

  • dryden555 #229 2 years ago

    The review became invalid for me when it complained about the combat being too fiddly and difficult. Part of the fun of a crpg is mastering the complexities of combat and character abilities and traits. EG has really failed me lately. The recent Risen review for PC was a small travesty of clueless professional reviewing.

    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 21:35

  • mkreku #230 2 years ago

    What the hell? This review just made it HARDER for me to know if I want this game or not! It read like a bland game, full of cliché's, embarrassing sex/gore scenes, small maps with lots of loading, etc.. and then it says 8/10 at the end! WHAT?

    I could do with a new RPG (after Risen), but I still don't know if this is for me.

  • velimirius #231 2 years ago

    just lol @ reviewer for comparison of Bioware game with blizzard.
    /fail review.

  • freakzilla #232 2 years ago

    There seems to a lot of passion about this game. People are -54 thumbs lol. And to be honest similar comments about other games haven't had such reactions.

  • curtlikesmeat #233 2 years ago

    Agreed that the tone of the review seems out of place with the score - I read it as a 6.

    To be honest I lost interest as soon as it was revealed it wasn't an open world. In an RPG anything less is a step backwards I think. WoW gets a lot of grief but it just makes all similar games look bad in most departments... I'd probably stop playing it for a bit if some decent RPG came out. Roll on Elder Scrolls 5.

  • moxpearl #234 2 years ago

    *cough*

    http://ww w.eurogamer.de/articles/dragon-... 10/10

  • uk_john #235 2 years ago

    Quote from the review:

    "But where, in its traditional form, is the role-playing game? The genre's biggest recent hits are the futuristic action crossovers Fallout 3 and Mass Effect"

    At that point I knew I was reading something written by someone who knows nothing about gaming! Here is a person, like so many others, that are so dumb that they call Fallout 3 an 'action crossover' and compares it with Mass Effect!

    As a 25 year plus computer roleplaying fan, starting with the C64 goldbox games, I can tell the reviewer that just because fallout 3 has laser guns does not make it an 'action-RPG' like ME! Quite simply, Fallout 3 is a sci-fi RPG, plain and simple. It has the SPECIAL system and the attributes system for your avatar and a world that reacts to that character you build. This makes it an RPG. Mass Effect, on the other hand, has 1/100th the character stats and attributes and combines a sophisticated conversation system with a tactical corridor shooter quest system. This makes ME an Action (quests) Adventure (conversation system) rather than an RPG. Quite simply, if Fallout 3 is an RPG-Shooter, why don't we call Oblivion or The Witcher or Risen or Baldur's Gate or any old school RPG a 'RPG-Sworder'?!

    Giantbomb has called Dragon Age an Action-Roleplaying game, prompting me to post a message there asking what a game would have to do for GiantBomb to call it a plain ol' RPG?!

    With the advent of games like Jade Empire and Mass Effect - also from Bioware - being called 'RPG's' when they patently are not when you look at RPG's historically, what gets called an RPG now is patently ridiculous! Give a player an inventory and it's an RPG-Shooter. Have a game like Borderland's - 95% shooter but 5% lite roleplaying and you can call it an RPG-Shooter!

    There's another point to make: This debate about the words versus the score has gone on for years. But in the last 5 years or so have come to a head because of the multi-format market we are now in. It seems to me there is now a rule for reviewing games in the media - especially the web gaming media. This debate shows it. The Witcher got high 8 scores and there was little debate. Risen got score in the mid 8's and again there was little debate. Equally, from the debate here shows, when it comes to the $30 million games from major publisher's like Bioware, Valve or Bethesda, we don't bat an eyelid if every games site gives it 9.5+, we don't see it as suspicious in any way.

    In effect, it has become accepted that an 8.8 Witcher is the equivalent of a 9.3 Oblivion. And indeed an 8.5 Risen is the same as a 9.3 Dragon Age. But should a Dragon Age type game get a score in the 8's all hell breaks loose, because we have been trained over the last 5 years to expect 9+ for all 'big' games! When a major title gets 8.5 it is now seen as not that good a score, because, after all, that's what The Witcher's and Risen's of this world get, and that can't be right!

    What has happened is that we have slowly accepted the bias toward major publishers the media has. We know in our heart of hearts that A Risen or Witcher is not going to get a 9+ score because of who they are. Equally, we get upset now when a majorly hyped title from one of the 'big guys' gets less than 9.

    Until the closeness of the media to publishers is broken, this bias will not change. Oblivion 2 WILL get 9+ scores. Precursors, and Action-RPG from Deep Silver that allows a ground battle, lets you get in your spaceship, fly up to space and then have a space battle, all without a loading screen, will not get a 9+, however good it is. How to end this? Gaming sites like Eurogamer and Gamespot and 1UP, etc need to buy retail copies of their games. They must stop previewing. They must have much harder hitting interviews instead of the marketing fluff they are today ('how good do you think your game will be?'!). If gaming wants to be like the movies, it should report like the movies. Interview the stars, release trailers only close to the game release, have editorial control over video's (ie if a video shows something that the game doesn't have - it can get pulled). The media need to take control and not be the boot licking fawns they are now.

    And while all old-school computer roleplayers are celebrating Dragon Age, please remember: Other than Fallout: New Vegas, there is no hardcore stat/attribute driven Dragon Age/Risen/Witcher style RPG due in 2010! Is it any wonder that if you are a hardcore RPG fan you are more likely to also be a fan of retro gaming! There's a reason DOSBox has had over 5 million downloads!

  • fluff_the_tiger #236 2 years ago

    ^ that was long.

  • uk_john #237 2 years ago

    I had the time and the emotion

  • lolife.se #238 2 years ago

    "Uninvolved, you make calls with your head and not your heart, and you never feel like you can escape the gravitational pull of the game's design the way you can in, for example, Bethesda's RPGs."

    Heh, you cannot be serious. You just cannot. That one sentence invalidates the whole review, as far as I'm concerned. :-)
    Edited by 1 at 03/11/09 @ 23:59

  • OrgasmicMutton #239 2 years ago

    @ John_UK

    Frankly i skimmed the first part of your post as it seemed to be as equally unexciting as a bunch of metal fans arguing over pointless genre semantics. However i've got to say i disagree with some of the later stuff:

    "Gaming sites like Eurogamer and Gamespot and 1UP, etc need to buy retail copies of their games. They must stop previewing. They must have much harder hitting interviews instead of the marketing fluff they are today ('how good do you think your game will be?'!). If gaming wants to be like the movies, it should report like the movies."

    Firstly if sites start buying retail copies of their games it's just going to lead to relentless moaning among the readership. i've seen a few reviews here lately where posters have made snarky comments about games which have been reviewed a few weeks after their release. A lot of readers expect reviews before or at least concurrent with release of the game. This makes review builds a neccesary evil - particularly for RPGs, which take a considerable time to play.

    As for previews, I think the standard of these has been getting better recently. While there are still too many out there that get sucked into gushing hype I've noticed a growing trend towards previews pointing out flaws which will need to be fixed or being a bit more cagey about how promising some games are. Personally I kind of like the optimistic stance of previews; it's nice for journalists to have some genuine enthusiasm when compared to say the movie media who can at times be territbly jaded.

  • Averice #240 2 years ago

    "This review just made it HARDER for me to know if I want this game or not!" I'd have to agree with this quote from mkreku. But I think that that's a good thing, because it reinforces my own personal feelings on the game that I have already.

    I think the review covered what it should have though, I just think that the game itself is defying any current methodology of a real reviewing. On the one hand its awesome, on the other it's not as awesome as you expected it to be. You only have so many pages to write a review, and making sure you mention all the bad stuff is important, especially for a title where everyone already has an idea of most of the good stuff.

    In my eyes, the game looked Terrible from all the previews. I was actually sitting there wondering why anybody was giving this game any good hype at all when, if you watch the game play trailers, the game looks like crap. Sure, it's bioware, sure, they say it's gonna be great, sure, they usually make great stuff, but so what, the thing still Looks bad. If it looks bad then it looks bad. I think most reviewers are forgetting that.

    If I ever play this game in the future it won't be because the game looks like it's awesome, it's because I know I'm going to get a good RPG experience out of it, and I happen to Like RPG experiences. But man, I'm just glad they had game play videos instead of me only seeing the TV advertisements (over here in the states), because the tv adverts look sick (as in wicked sweet). But then when I see the game play trailer I just kind of look at it and go "huh... yeah I already have a horrible game that looks just like that, it's called dungeon siege 2".

    My friends review of the game, he's playing it, is in summary: "it's an ugly game, but it's fun."

    edit: @OrgasmicMutton - I think that game review companies should be buying release versions of games, but that in addition to what they already do. Not for every game, but some games really change after release (lol total war waste of money on such a gd broken game), and I think it's important that previews are made sure to be tempered with the fact that they're a non release. Sometimes reviewers forget that, on the assumption or assurance from the company that issues will be fixed and so they end up not reporting on them.
    Edited by 2 at 04/11/09 @ 00:46

  • bobiroka #241 2 years ago

    This review is a complete farce. I can handle it if the reviewer generally dislikes a game, but how you can then slap an 8/10 at the end of the review after such a negative rant is beyond me.

    This review hasn't put me off buying the game, it's just made me really angry.

    I know for a fact that Bioware cannot dissapoint. They're just too awesome to dissapoint when it comes to genre that's their bread and butter.

    Roll on Friday. I'll be down GAME at lunchtime getting my copy of the PC version....

  • Shikasama #242 2 years ago

    Anyone else notice those massive Dragon Age: Origins adverts everywhere?

    Just sayin.

  • IMD1_Pk #243 2 years ago

    Like other posts mentioned he talked about many negative points about the game but the most important positive point he probably forgot to mention was how fun the game is. He may not be hardcore enough to enjoy it and that is his fault. Square RPGS and many JRPGS are quite soft in their gameplay approach and thus he wants a middle ground difficulty level. You either play on a easy difficulty or man up and think strategically and play the game the hardcore way. I'm glad there's gonna be a challenge because I am tired of playing games that require so-called strategy where your strategy and micro-managing doesn't actually play a big role in changing the battle. Some people may not feel this way and may want a middle difficulty level but then all I can say is the game isn't for you. It's not a big deal because lots of gamers experience this in many hardcore games like Forza Motorsport 3 or Street Fighter. I wasn't shocked to see reviewers complainers whining about feeling Forza Motorsport 3's hard mode was too hard and normal and easy were too big of a jump into the lower level.

  • SleepyMagpie #244 2 years ago

    Now, in patronizing tones, those of us confused over the score compared to the text of the review are being told to do something as "far fetched" as THINK FOR OURSELVES. -_-

    Newsflash, oh great ones, I've been thinking for myself and making the "wrong decisions" and ruffling feathers more or less since I grew pubic hair. Which was a couple of years before the rest of my class, since we're getting personal now.

    Whatever I do, I think for myself. That is more or less the creed I live by.

    That said, when I come to this site, I come for information about games. When scores and copy are at complete odds, and people are none the wiser about the game being reviewed, this site has failed at it's main objective. Then it brings upon itself criticism.

    And how is this site, and the reviewer in question somehow above that? I have not been impolite, although I may have been slightly inflammatory! ^^

    "Eurogamer forums: Come for the information, all the while enduring lectures from the almost, but not quite, intelligent".

  • DNM #245 2 years ago

    Dearie me, what a distinctly poor review.

  • neems #246 2 years ago

    "He may not be hardcore enough to enjoy it and that is his fault."

    Quote of the week.

  • Zephro #247 2 years ago

    lolife.se is spot on. The review is flawed the minute he mentions Oblivion as a standard of excellence.

    Someone getting back to rpg with long detailed stories rather than going for the trendy "sandbox full of grey, brown and maybe some green" nonsense.

    A Baldur's Gate or a Planescape would have been rubbish if made like that, and imagine the voice acting of Minsc...

  • kangarootoo #248 2 years ago

    @uk_john

    You spent all that time basically saying that you think the reviewer is bias? With a little bit about the semantic definition of RPG thrownin for good measure (which is exceedingly yawnful)?

    Hmmm.


    @SleepyMagpie

    Ok, so you can think for yourself, so where is the problem?

    "When scores and copy are at complete odds"

    Two things to say about that.

    1. That is an opinion, not a statement of fact. Plenty of people think the review and score line up just fine.

    2. More importantly, so bloody what? So what? What is the point of a review for you? To tell you about a game, or to restore the natural balance of the universe? Sometimes a score won't appear to line up with the review copy for some people... So. What.



    "He may not be hardcore enough to enjoy it and that is his fault"

    Haaahaaahaaa.

  • Azazel #249 2 years ago

    I know for a fact that Bioware cannot dissapoint. They're just too awesome to dissapoint

    lol

  • Zephro #250 2 years ago

    I sort of miss games being fiendishly difficult and detailed. Some of the battles in BG2 were insanely hard with an obtuse learning curve.

    Or Thief. Or the original Operation Flashpoint. Or Deus Ex (but not the sequel).

  • ilmaestro #251 2 years ago

    So, as good as A Boy and His Blob, then?

  • GenuineEntropy #252 2 years ago

    "...from Oli Welsh. The guy has only given one game a perfect score and that was WoW."
    Critic(al) Faliure.

    Do us a favor and hire the guys from Rock, Paper, Shotgun to do your PC game reviews in future.

    [Informative Edit]
    A more thoughtful, consistent and decidedly less rushed seeming DA:o review from RPS's John Walker (an individual who actually plays PC games, not just 5 year old Everquest clones as a distraction from his consoles) can be found here:
    http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...
    Edited by 3 at 04/11/09 @ 11:03

  • spekkeh #253 2 years ago

    @uk_john

    If you're such a longstanding computer roleplaying fan, then surely you must know that the genre is characterized by earning experience points and being able to allot this to skills of your own volition, so you can form your avatar into the role you wish it to portray? And because this was a mechanic from the table top Dungeons and Dragons (RPG) type games, they called it that way? I find it telling that you need 10 paragraphs to talk around this.

  • nodrick #254 2 years ago

    If you want to see whether this is worth buying ... take a look on metacritic

    Pretty much every other review site except Oli thinks this is the best RPG for ages ... and are all enamoured with it.

    I am watching the post box with eager anticipation ... 90 hours of gameplay. Thats enough for about 5 console games nowadays. Pure value for money if you are an RPG fan

  • Grayvern #255 2 years ago

    The score is not completely at odds with the prose. It's clear that he really liked the combat and the levelling systems but not the writing. The scores perfectly explainable if he waited some aspects far above others. Then again Drakensang got a 7 with similar complaints while Dragon Age sounds like it is better ina few key areas from the review.

    But then again some of his comments about oblivion are paticularily choice.

    Hoever Bioware have never been paticularily good at dialogue, you could level similar complaints about the dialogue in any of their games, especially neverwinter nights. Planescape Torment notably being a Black Isle game.

    Also the idea that big games and advertising are one and the same on Eurogamer is ludicrous when you consider that many of the games advertised on the sight frontend, get scores 4-6

    Finally how much you get into a story depends more on the person playing than the story itself. Fantasy books being a prime example in that Tolkein cannot write well especially when you consider that 20 years later Frank Herbert was having Dune published and English hardly moves that fast.

    (as an aside surely ther is a tickbox in the menu that will allow you to turn gore/ bloodsplatter on and off. Also isn't the fact that most fantasy characters in games are not covered in blood more ludicrous than being covered, given the amount of meat that they hack through)

    Its all about what you can get past to enjoy a story. Full metal alchemist is a great anime so I ignored the more bizzare and stupid anime tropes that are absent from the sort of amime read ghost in the shell or similar that I usually watch. Just as I ignored Tolkeins lack of aptitude in prose.
    Edited by 1 at 04/11/09 @ 11:30

  • bruno0091 #256 2 years ago

    Reading a lot of these comments, people are judging it a lot by the trailers contents. What you should remember is that these were created by EA, NOT Bioware. We all know EA like to appeal to as wide a market as possible and the easiest way to do that is to appeal to the 13-20odd year olds, by playing up the gore and sex.

    Those who have watched the developer walkthroughs on the likes of Gametrailers.com will know that it's know kewed that way at all. Also, those of you saying it's poor after playing 30 minutes at an expo... you can't really judge a game, especially an RPG, in that time frame.

    Just my 2 pennies.

  • sneetch #257 2 years ago

    @Grayvern
    (as an aside surely ther is a tickbox in the menu that will allow you to turn gore/ bloodsplatter on and off. Also isn't the fact that most fantasy characters in games are not covered in blood more ludicrous than being covered, given the amount of meat that they hack through)

    Yep, I was wondering the same thing and there's apparently an option to turn Persistent Gore off which hopefully means you won't look like a clumsy abattoir worker all the time. :)

    http://ww w.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/drag...

  • starmonkey #258 2 years ago

    Reviewer appears to be trying too hard to be different from the crowd of reviewers giving the game glowing reviews. Then gives it an 8. What the?

  • kangarootoo #259 2 years ago

    "Reviewer appears to be trying too hard to be different from the crowd of reviewers giving the game glowing reviews"

    How on EARTH can you reliably come to that conclusion.

    "Hmmm, that cat seems to be trying to hard to lie in the sun just so it can fit in with the other cats around here".

    Do you hear a voice in your head that tells you these things, are you some kind of psychic, or do you translate these wisdoms from ancient texts?

  • muscleblade #260 2 years ago

    "I am watching the post box with eager anticipation ... 90 hours of gameplay. Thats enough for about 5 console games nowadays. Pure value for money if you are an RPG fan "

    Thats one of the reasons why i dont want the game. I rather play 5 other games in the same time as that will be more entertaining for me. I like too play different things. MW2, AC2, Borderlands, Brutal Legend, L4D2 or this? I rather play the other 5.
    First week of January sees the release of Bayonetta. I would like to complete the Q4 2009 games by then.

  • symmetry #261 2 years ago

    Definitely reads like a 6/7.

  • nodrick #262 2 years ago

    "Thats one of the reasons why i dont want the game. I rather play 5 other games in the same time as that will be more entertaining for me. I like too play different things. MW2, AC2, Borderlands, Brutal Legend, L4D2 or this? I rather play the other 5."

    Fair enough ..but you are going to spend a lot of cash :) I'd rather play this than your 5 (MW2 - overpriced and will be over in a flash) ... personal taste :) RPG's are long term time sinking games , and are not really comparible to say Brutal Legend etc. (must buy that at some point)

    As for whether something reads like a 6 ... well read more reviews and come up with a balanced opinion. You will be hard pressed to find any website which doesn't think the game is fantastic.

    if you don't like RPG's well its a no brainer really

    Edited by 1 at 04/11/09 @ 14:11

  • muscleblade #263 2 years ago

    @nodrick

    Sure.

    Money for games isnt a problem as games is so cheap anyway. Im old enough to remember what a super nintendo games cost back in the day. Games is one of very few things that has gotten a lot cheaper over the years even though the development costs has increased. MW2 is not a overpriced game. A game like this is overpriced:

    [link url=http://www.metacritic.com/games /platforms/xbox360/ravensquadoperationhiddendagger'
    ]http://ww w.metacritic.com/games/platform...[/link]

  • nodrick #264 2 years ago

    I'm old enought to remember Atari 2600 and Vic 20 :) ( I even had a grandstand tennis thing ... two blocks on the screen)

    Some games are very expensive today ... 45 quid plus for MW2 is pretty steep. It all depends on how much cash you have. As with anything it depends on what you get. Games without multiplayer that last sub 15 hours are commonplace today.

    I can afford what I want ...but for your average kid without parents with big pockets may see 2 or 3 games a year.

    I've bought DAO for 24.99 , and it will last me ages ... value for money there.

    ofc. many will just pirate games and play whatever they like ...
    Edited by 1 at 04/11/09 @ 14:52

  • indelible #265 2 years ago

    I'd like to thank Oli Welsh for his clear and concise efforts on this site to write articles that are clearly aimed at increasing the unique hit count for Eurogamer. If ever you write a proper and competent review, I'll eat my own children.

    I don't have children however I imagine that you aren't going to do it any time soon, so I've got plenty of time to have them :-)

  • hotwu #266 2 years ago

    I have to agree with this article. I actually googled "dragon age extremely long dialogue" before finding this article, so this had no impact on my view. I am a hardcore RPG'er and I've played MUD's (completely text based) games that got into the action faster than this game did. I am four hours in and I was hoping that the entire game wasn't going to be like this. I feel like I am being pushed along through a story where I don't have any options right now. Out of the four hours played, 80% of it has been watching conversations occur, 20% action. I guess I am worried in that hearing the game is 50 hours long, 10% of the game so far has just been in conversation. I would rather just watch a good 2 hour movie setting up the story than to go through this IMHO. I understand starter quests to give you a feel for game mechanics and showing little bits of the game here and there, but I am on the edge of calling it quits. Had it not been for this article, I doubt I would have picked the game back up, but I'm willing to push through another night and see how it opens up (I've never played a game in my life that took this long to open up). I also agree with the fact that today, if you are going to make an investment into the game, invest more time in unique ideas instead of building out a detailed world of cliche. I literally got excited when I saw that elves were slaves to humans in part of the game (I realized later how truly cliche the game really was when I thought about how excited this made me). That was one of the biggest reasons I fell in love with Mass Effect, it seemed very unique to me. I will give it more time, but at this point I would not rate it 8/10, but it's too early for me to really come to any solid conclusion.

  • DrowJones #267 2 years ago

    Wowgamer does not like an rpg, which isn't wow. I act surprised.

    I can also make a bold prediction right now - the next rpg that'll score 10/10 in wowgamer will be the next wow expansion. Come on, you know that I'm right.

  • hotwu #268 2 years ago

    Here is my take on the comparison between WoW and Dragon Age. I had about 150 days /played on WoW before I quit. That's 3,600 hours of game time. The game has what? Over 10,000,000 players? The game is like a crack addiction to some kids, people have died playing the game because they were too focused to stand up to go get a glass of water and rest for an hour or two. If WoW didn't get a 10/10 by anyone reviewing it the reviewer should be shot in the face and trampled by a gang of crazy monkeys for being so out of touch with realistic expectations from a game.

    That being said, it took about 30 minutes out of those 3,600 hours of my play time to get engrossed in WoW, to feel like I was actually a part of something real. 5-6 hours of linear plot to get into a game that is 50 hours long - played straight through is borderline retarded. And it's not just that, it's just not an exciting and engrossing 5-6 hours.

    Anyone who is going to get butt hurt over this review (outside of people with vested interest) is either biased for some other reason, hasn't played the game yet or a completely unrealistic gamer with low RPG expectations.

    I love long games, I hate long intros. I played 4-5 hours last night, in that time period I had at least 4 party members swap in and out and two of them permanently die (I had no control over this). I felt like I couldn't even start to focus on leveling my characters or utilizing any gear I was picking up for fear of losing it from never being able to use a character in my party again. I had no control over who was in my party, I had no control over where to go and where to explore, I had no control over story line outcome based on responses to conversation. Right now, I am not happy with it. I realize this is just based on a very short amount of time played, but the author of this article DID state that the game opens up after that... and to be fair, I feel like unless I criticize this myself and jump on the fan bandwagon I'm setting expectations for other game developers to do something similar down the road. Do not want.
    Edited by 1 at 04/11/09 @ 18:11

  • VMerken #269 2 years ago

    So... does the EULA still state that producer Bioware and any of its unnamed "partners" can do whatever the fork they want with your PC whenever they feel like it (and you're connected to them of course), as it did in the character editor?

    I really should download the character editor again, just to quote the EULA correctly :)
    Edited by 1 at 04/11/09 @ 20:31

  • SheffieldSteel #270 2 years ago

    hotwu, I feel your pain.

    I had exactly the same experience in NWN2 - that awful feeling of not being in control of my party in my own game. It felt like the game's design was all focussed on making me do whatever the writer wanted to happen next... the problem is, I don't want to be the actor reading someone else's script. That's not why I play games.

    The good news about NWN2 (I suppose) was that it did open up after the first chapter. Unfortunately for me, by then the damage had been done -- the excitement of playing the new game, initially spoiled by the inability to explore or control what was happening, wore off about the same time I was able to choose my companions and go whenever I wanted.

    Here's hoping that doesn't happen in this game too.

  • Shikasama #271 2 years ago

    hotwu, if you think Warcraft is a 10/10 game by any decent reviewing standard then you have issues I'm not even qualified to talk about

  • OrgasmicMutton #272 2 years ago

    @ Genuine Entropy

    Err . . . all the RPS guys contribute reviews and articles very regularly to EG.

  • BenXyan #273 2 years ago

    I think this review is misleading really. The reviewer obviously likes the game as it recieves 8/10, yet everything written before that score makes it sound like they're on a witchhunt.

    It all comes down to taste, of course, but I hated Oblivion and Fallout 3 because they were first-person 'shooters' (or slashers). Not true traditional RPGs. I can't stand playing in a first person view all the time. As first-person shooters go, Mass Effect was a good compromise. I can already tell I will like DAO a whole lot more than any Bethesda game, not just because its BioWare, or because it has received very favourable reviews from professional games journalists and consumers alike, but also because its a a 'true' traditional RPG. I also think the interface is the best ever seen in a game, period (talking PC version here). I like the fact they took a lot of ideas from MMOs; particularly WoW, which held the crown for best UI previously.
    Edited by 1 at 05/11/09 @ 02:26

  • muscleblade #274 2 years ago

    @nodrick

    "Games without multiplayer that last sub 15 hours are commonplace today."

    Agree on this. This isnt the case with MW2 though. And i still think if you avoid the crappiest games you get what you pay for when you buy a game. Some kids dont have as much money but they didnt have more money when Megadrive and Super NES was the consoles on the market, but the games cost a lot more back then even the crappy ones. Most games have 16-18 ratings anyway so i dont think gaming is a hobby just for the kids. Everything is expensive if you dont have money of course. I spend a lot more money on food and clothes than i do on games even though i buy 20+ retail games every year. So therefore i believe food and clothes is more expensive.


  • ryandsimmons #275 2 years ago

    Are they going to bother to review the XBox version before it is actually released?

  • Pac #276 2 years ago

    @hotwu

    Each to their own eh. I quite like games that fanny around for ages at the start.

    Unfortunately I am still waiting for the game to be delivered.

    At this point I would be quite happy watching the intro for a couple of hours.

  • Pac #277 2 years ago

    @ryandsimmons

    EG have really missed the boat with the 360 and PS3 reviews. Most people have probably pre-ordered by now. I went for the PC version as I want to play it top down plus it sounded like the console versions had some issues with glitches, path finding etc.

    Hope my PC is up to the job:)

  • ryandsimmons #278 2 years ago

    I have it preordered on the XBox, but am torn as most reviews say that the PS3 version is superior. However I don't want to wait 2 extra weeks unless it really is much better. I've been reading the other review sites, but the more info the better. By choice I'd go for the PC version, but my wife has bought me a PS3 for my birthday to go with my 360 as she wants the PC for study and work. So I don't really have that option.

    Also I am not a fan of the PC review. The reviewer here for the PC version seemed to miss the point for me by comparing it to Oblviion etc. Whereas Bethesda give you a pen and paper and let you create the world you want, Bioware give you a jigsaw. You have less say in what you can do, but the finished picture is more complete. Personally I love both types of RPG and both these companies I buy their game on release, but to compare them is futile as they approach the genre differently.
    Edited by 1 at 05/11/09 @ 09:56

  • Pac #279 2 years ago

    I have heard that the PS3 version is slightly better. I do not like buying PC games normally as something always seems to go wrong no matter what set up you have.

    As long as the game has at least a tiny bit in common with BG2 it should be OK. I have got BG2 on the shelf next to me but it won't run on my sodding PC. Otherwise I would be tempted to boot it up.

  • ryandsimmons #280 2 years ago

    I refused to play consoles until this generation, being a pure PC gamer. However last year when I upgraded my graphics card, then spent a week trying to get an audio codec issue resolved, dealing with crashes, patche, then spending hours trying to get the optimum frame rate / graphics balance, then realised that PC games were becoming ports of consoles anyway (Look at the whole fuss over MW2 at the moment) I just gave up and turned to the dark side.

    In a year now the only issue I have had was Fallout 3 freezing on me once, every other game has just been plug and play. I'd prefer the PC and BG2 is one of my favourite games ever and RPGs just work better with a mouse and keyboard, but I just don't have the motivation anymore to set up the PC when I can just sit on the sofa and play on my 40 inch tv. If more companies acted like Bioware and Valve and supported the PC I'd probably change my mind, but with more companies like the MW2 guys just abandoning it it is not worth the effort.

  • Pac #281 2 years ago

    I have all three consoles and PC rigged up to an LCD monitor so it doesn't matter to me.

    However I feel your pain. I had a pretty good spec PC a couple of years ago but in that time nothing has come out on the PC that I would not rather play on a console.

    Sodding things out of date now.

    No doubt I will spend the first few hours with the game updating drivers, adjusting video setting etc. etc. Cannot wait :)

  • Schiraman #282 2 years ago

    Nice to see the PC version reviewed for a change, big thumbs up for that.

    Seems like a fair review, and confirms a lot of the fears I had in the run-up to release. Does sound like a 7 rather than an 8 to me though, but whatever - ultimately the text is what matters, not the score.

  • Shikasama #283 2 years ago

    So we aren't geting the console review before release?

    Awesome.

  • Pac #284 2 years ago

    Played it for a few hours now and I like it. The thing that has impressed me most so far are the menus and interface which have been polished to perfection.

    It's hard to decide which viewpoint to look from though. But at least with the PC you have a choice.

    Graphics vary from the nice to the grotesque! What is going on with people's hands in this game? They are like big slabs of white meat with sausages attached.

    Gonna have to find some gloves or something quick before it becomes any more off putting.

  • hotwu #285 2 years ago

    Having played this game about another four hours (8 hours in now) I have to agree again with Oli. It was tough to chew in the beginning, but after the first four or five hours the game really opened up. I was JUST talking to a friend of mine the other day on some ideas I thought would really make a great RPG that I had yet to see being implemented by a development company and I found those things in Dragon Age later last night. I am enjoying the game a lot more now. My personal rating is going up!

  • fullmetalchibi #286 2 years ago

    This is one of the most awfull reviews I have read so far.

    Have you even finished the game I wonder? Because it seems like you reviewed the first 10 hours of the game. No replayability? Are you kidding? The game branches out so differently in the second half of the game in regards to your choices that you have a hard time picking something at all. The endings are multiple and totally worth replaying the game for them.

    Combat too difficult? What are you expecting here? Some WoW game where everything is easy mode? Combat in dragon age is on par with classics like Baldur's Gate II and Icewind Dale. Even if it doesn't have the AD&D it's very tactical and well thought.

    Whoever reads this review...don't take it into account, play the game for yourself and see what it's all about.

  • lmephisto #287 2 years ago

    OMG!!!!! thats the worst review i ever saw!!!!! Oli welsh is that really your opinion about this game??? if that so why you gave an 8 and not a 5??? This game should get minimum 9/10 is maybe the best RPG game for this year! You give Fable 10/10 and then you coming to a master of rpg game and rate it with 8 and a review of 5-6?? You dint even had the balls to rate it with the review you just wrote? I thought Eurogamer was an honest review site but its seem guy like Oli proved me wrong!

    FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check again the game and the rewrite an honest review not pointless things like bags in the game! Tell me one game that dint had bugs! Fallout 3 a great RPG games and it was disaster with bags but you still gave a rate of 9!

    Dint Bioware pay you for the review Oli??

    Damn!

  • SleepyMagpie #288 2 years ago

    So i bought the 360 version yesterday, and as a frosty early-winter night had fallen on the west-coast of Norway, I installed it and clicked "new game".

    3 hours of gameplay later I cannot confirm any of Oli's misgivings.

    In the "the score does not confirm the review text" rhuckus, I was actually leaning towards believing Oli's criticisms of the game. I tend to buy mass-suggestion/corruption theories (very suggestible - lol), and thought Oli might be the one voice of reason to stand against the staggering weight of dirty Meta-Critic Dragon Age scores of well over 90. -But that he hadn't been tough enough to score it as he wrote it, erring on the side of prudence, envisioning a very possible uproar.

    Well, now I just wonder where Oli is at really. No, the game does not contain acting of the highest calibre. The game does not exhibit state-of-the-art graphics. The story is pieced together from all fantasy that came before, lots of Tolkien of course, but also ample splashes of Robert Jordan and many more.

    However, the story grips you from the start, voice-acting is some of the best I've heard in ages (check out the Sloth Demon in the Mage introduction!), and graphics are just right. They are gritty and workmanlike and western, albeit with a smattering of sparkle in the now and then beautiful play of light and shadow, color and chiaroscuro. The graphics are the way you want them in a medieval fantasy setting, imparting wood and bone and the iron smell of blood and dampness. I shudder to think of the asian aesthetic of Aion compared to this. Sometimes rough is good and right. -And as a bonus it will run well on nearly anything today, and put the gameplay and story at the forefront.

    Slight negatives so-far would be the "persistent gore", as has been talked over already at lengths - turn it off to stop characters from looking like abbattoir assistants in cutscenes following battles.

    And, if you ar planning at playing it from your sofa, on the 360 or PS3, know that cutscenes will be grander, but text (which is copious), will possibly appear smallish, and difficult to make out, depending on your own eyesight, distance from screen, and size of screen.

    I have a 42" plasma, and well corrected eyesight, I sit 2,5 meters from the screen. I managed well enough, but if you have a less ideal setup, you might consider the PC version. The PC version will most likely give you that proper Baldur's gate feeling as well.

    In ending, I have to remark to the luminaries at EG that being a WoW afficionado does not equate being an RPG'er. WoW is about addiction, getting your fix, and is a more or less controllable neurosis. A true RPG'er is more about immersion and escapism, travel.

    Maybe Oli is not the best choice for the RPG's?

    To everyone that love a good RPG. I think I can safely say that we are "GAME ON".

    Have a good week-end! ^^

    Edited by 1 at 06/11/09 @ 08:38

  • ryandsimmons #289 2 years ago

    Well the console version is out and still no review.

    Poor performance Eurogamer. Every other major site has managed to talk about them.

  • GenuineEntropy #290 2 years ago

    @ OrgasmicMutton
    Err . . . all the RPS guys contribute reviews and articles very regularly to EG.

    Yup, I was suggesting that they do *all* PC reviews for them. ;-)

  • coomber #291 2 years ago

    BenXyan: "It all comes down to taste, of course, but I hated Oblivion and Fallout 3 because they were first-person 'shooters' (or slashers). Not true traditional RPGs. I can't stand playing in a first person view all the time."

    You could change to third-person in Oblivion.


    @ Imephisto.

    Oli did not review Fable 2.

  • cluster #292 2 years ago

    I think i will enjoy that game (if i have time for it that is) but count me on the whimsical and lighthearted side of Torchlight. The videos give a good sense of the contrived dialogs and love interactions in Dragon Age, and as much as i want to love that game i already feel that it will be kind of a put off for me. Good review.

  • strongharm #293 2 years ago

    You're a fking idiot. You completely slam what is being hailed as the best RPG in decades, then give it an 8 of 10? Your problem is that you're the Terry Goodkind / World of Warcraft type.. not the George R.R. Martin / Dragon Age type.. so .. I won't blame this article on you being a fking idiot.. I'll blame it on your editor for giving you the piece and not putting a big fking black X across the whole thing and reassigning it. Editor .. you're a fking twit. Epic fail.. your site is the dook.
    .. it's dook
    Edited by 1 at 13/11/09 @ 03:31

  • hzon #294 2 years ago

    Great review. I played the game for about 20 hours before reading the review, and, in my opinion, it's pretty much spot on.

  • Grayvern #295 2 years ago

    The main problem in the game is the animation. The dialogue isn't too wooden most of the time. The real problem is that unlike mass effect there is little animation of any quality which lends the wole affair a lifeless feel.

    Which is curious given that Mass Effect's character animation was pleasing and well done. Which dissapoints me as I dont really feel im engaging with the story as much as Mass Effect.

    There is no half way with animation and 3D, you either do lifeless with text and let the player imagine or you go the whole hog and spend tons, the middle ground tends to leave people cold.

    The real problem with the visuals however lies in the nature of the gam,e being a more traditional in the fact its top down and quite long was always going to lead to compromise. Its just to bad the impact it has on the sotry.

  • Pac #296 2 years ago

    I do not think there is anything wrong with the animation however the textures and colours are a little inconsistent which means that in ceratin areas it looks a little dated (especially the forests for example).

    I think the cut scenes are absolutely fine for a game of this scope and size and the the characters are more life like and convincing than Oblivion (though no where near as detailed and well animated as ME).

    However the gameplay is lightyears ahead of ME and Oblivion. Especially when you take complete control of all the characters and play using pause. The normal difficulty is pitched just right (i.e fairly hard).

    The most impressive thing for me, is the level of detail that has gone into the skills, spcialisations and spells. There is always something else for your character to do during battle rather than just basic attack (as long as he has enough stamina or Mana). And if you zoom in you can see the character peform the actual skill that you have chosen.

    Perhaps people who do not find the game that rewarding are letting the A.I. take too much control over the proceedings.

  • noTHINGface #297 2 years ago

    [link url=http://www.destructoid.com/how-to-re spond-to-a-videogame-review-154490.phtml&mainnav=&track= featurebox
    ]http://ww w.destructoid.com/how-to-respon...[/link]

    This thread crafted from this p1ss take....

  • TedMoseby #298 2 years ago

    I'm just over 11 hours in. I've seen 2 of the 6 origins so far, and I love the game. Sure the engine isn't the greatest - it was never going to be, Bioware's strengths lie elsewhere, with story design and emotional investment in characters, and this game has that in spades.

    The world is interesting, and yes it has elves and dwarves, but they are fantasy staples - you don't criticise a shooter for having weapons in it do you? The Dragon Age take on elves IS refreshingly different to the normal holier than thou attitude that the pointy eared ones usually have in fantasy land, so if you're on the fence about this game with its "just an 8" (!) review score, I recommend you just give it a go - it's actually really, really great.

  • DarkBytes #299 2 years ago

    yer its quite good innit :)

  • nodrick #300 2 years ago

    The game is top drawer ... if you like fantasy RPG then there really is nothing better than this.

    I'm lost in the game ... its eating my evenings, but I'm damn happy about it

  • darc #301 2 years ago

    Finally playing this game for myself. I disagree with the reviewer's notion that the game lacks personality, and particularly with his comment about "bland architecture". I'll agree it's not exactly original - very Peter Jackson LOTR - but it is beautiful and grand. I've never seen anything quite like it in a computer game before.

    I'm playing the game on Normal and I feel the difficulty is right where it ought to be for a successor to the Baldur's Gate line. You need to use your characters as per their specializations - then seemingly overwhelming battles become managable and rewarding. My only complaint is that the tactics system is either very buggy or very unintuitive. I can't seem to get even simple cause and response tactics to work. I prefer to pause and micro-manage combat skills, but I do wish I could get some of the simpler behaviours ie. self-healing etc to manage themselves reliably.

    All in all though, loving this game. It's everything I'd hoped NWN2 would be, and thanks to advances in technology, a good bit more.
    Edited by 2 at 10/11/09 @ 16:29

  • Brastin #302 2 years ago

    I dont know why the most complaining about this game i just find this game fantastic. Sure there are some bugs etc in this game and some conversations are quit boring but the fights,story,gameplay,graphics makes this game almost perfect. For me its for sure a 9.

  • davisorle #303 2 years ago

    Yup, its from the only games i keep going back to over and over. This RPG is at least a 9/10 and whoever doesnt agree is either ignorant when it comes to gaming or simply RPGs isnt his sport, which in the second case I can understand it. Noone is forced to like RPGs. Why I put it this way? Cause I really do believe this game is as good as a 9/10, the least, game should be.

  • jim_uk #304 2 years ago

    "and you never feel like you can escape the gravitational pull of the game's design the way you can in, for example, Bethesda's RPGs. "

    and with that one line the writer loses all credibility.

  • ExplodingClown #305 2 years ago

    For once, I agree with Oli Welsh. I'm about 6 hours in and frankly am losing the will to plod on. It just feels... airless. Maybe I'm jaded, but The Witcher set the bar so high for dark fantasy and the breathing of new life into tired old tropes that this just doesn't come near. This just feels like Mass Effect with beards, the difference being: I enjoyed Mass Effect. Cmdr Shepard may have a giant sized stick up his/her arse, but at least displayed some signs of life.

    I loved Baldur's Gate, worship Planescape:Torment, and quite enjoyed Neverwinter Nights, but DA just seems limp. I quite genuinely don't care about the Blight or the treacherous Arl or any of it: the invasion scenario doesn't fill me with the sense of onrushing doom that Myth:The Fallen Lords did. In this huge attempt to be epic, they've failed to make it personal.

    In summary, try before you buy, and don't be a fanboy. If this gets a decent score it's because it's highly polished and a thoroughly professional piece of work. But then so is a Miele washing machine, and that might entertain you for longer.

  • BruntFCA #306 2 years ago

    Sad to see so much fanboy ranting before the games release, and so little comment now that it's out.

    I think Oli is Spot on. This is not a great game, sorry, but it's the Emperors New Clothes, and someone needs to say it. Perhaps the people who bought it are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

    This is an utterly generic game using very dated technology which frankly interferes with whatever vision the producers of the gameworld had. As for adult, it's about as adult as a 14 year olds idea of "adult", a lot of the dialogue and plot frankly make you wince; this is a game for adolescents rather than adults.

  • markitzs #307 2 years ago

    BruntFCA, the BEST summary of this game to date!

    Cheers!

  • pho3nix-bf #308 2 years ago

    I have just finished it today. All I can say - its a very classical RPG. Its not bad but after a Witcher I cant say it really impressed me. Its plain. I mean - a simple classic story, and also a world. Comparing to Witcher wich storyline was smart, with moral relativities and twists - I would say DA is targeted to younger players. It has no much of mood. Most time you spend on exploring dungeons with a couple of levels, with an excessive number of fights - so it looks like this: start quest - go into dungeon - kill all - descent into dungeon level 2 - kill all - level up - descent into level 3 ... In my opinion it kinda makes the story slow, with no big emotions.

    Anyway I must admit that if I was a couple years younger I would definitly like this game, but at this moment by a good RPG I understand a game with strong storyline, and interesting, geniune world. And DA is not good at this points.

  • mgdistributor #309 2 years ago

    The reviewer obviously likes the game as it recieves 8/10, yet everything written before that score makes it sound like they're on a witchhunt and I quite like games that fanny around for ages at the start.
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  • Kostas #313 2 years ago

    After finishing the game (77 hours) i must say that the reviews end score is overly "forgiving" considering that i have experienced all the problems said in the review and based on that i would not put more than 6 on this game. We should have seen the -real- score which i believe it was between 5 (at worst) and 7 (at best) but not 8. What exactly made them give it an 8?

    My playthrough in the game was generally tedious. It starts off good and for the first 20 hours it rolls "normal", nothing out of the ordinary. And then it moves on and all hell breaks loose. I might sound overly critique of the game but i will not kid myself just to play nice with other. It is broken. The combat mechanics are simplified for use by 5 year olds and are overly unbalanced, encounters that last artificially long for no apparent reason, non existent "adventuring", items that are too few and dont really have an impact in the game world at all (like cloak of displacement, red dragon armor, illumination rings and whatnot), invisible walls, and generally far too many things that stand out like spikes and take away from the immersion.

    If it was my review i would give the game a 5.

  • ExplodingClown #314 2 years ago

    I'll go with Kostas. Having got sick of the slog, downloaded a trainer and cheated my way through (just for the lulz of seeing my hero fistfight his way through encounters in naught but a loincloth, with similar comedy effect in the cutscenes), my considered verdict is: this should have got a 6, maximum.

    The Bad...
    Invisible walls: ugh. Ugly, ugly colour palette, repetitive level design and some seriously crude landscaping that has *no* place in a supposed triple-A title in 2009. Some voice acting that would grace AudioAtrocities.com if they didn't just concentrate on consoles, coupled with some truly painful dialogue; characters plagued with 'wangst'; content that might seem 'mature' to 15-year-olds but will give grown-ups that awful sinking feeling familiar to browsing MySpace's resident 'poets'. Tired and boring creature design - darkspawn, pfah, they're just orcs and sodding goblins with silly names. Superfluous and uninteresting crafting. Embarrassing Barbie-and-Ken-get-it-on 'sex' scenes to rival the most insipid Poser porn. Plus of course nearly every plotline sin catalogued in the infamous BioWare cliche spreadsheet.

    The Good:
    Morrigan's character was well drawn and interesting. Her voice acting was superb, Duncan's was very good, as were Shale and Loghain. Tim Curry obviously just took the cheque and said the words, job done, but a decent job. Considering some of the terrible depths at times plumbed by the writing, these actors acquitted themselves beautifully. Some of the soundtrack was rather good. The party selection screen was nice. The dog was amusing.

    Whoever at IGN gave this a 9.5 and drooled "RPG of the decade" either came out of a 9-year coma on release day or was bought some very expensive 'hospitality' by EA. I wonder how many review sites will have the integrity to revisit their hagiographic writeups and cast a colder eye on this very average game?

  • dryden555 #315 2 years ago

    Mr Clown, sorry but it sounds like you wanted pretty graphics and an "open world" like Fable. And you cheated your way through the game? That's not the way to play a 40-60 hour RPG....

  • danieleurogamer #316 2 years ago

    This review is obviously written for someone who doesn't know what is a TRUE RPG.

    Oblivion, Oblivion, Oblivion, bla bla bla.

    Oblivion is an FPS/action 3th person with swords and axes, set in a fantasy world. I think the game is amazing, but it is not a TRUE RPG. Any of these action games are true RPGs.

    Anyone remember Golden Axe Warrior or Y's the Vanished Omen for Master System? Phantasy Star or Shining Force series for Megadrive/Genesis? Baldur's Gate or Silver for PC? These were true RPG's. NOT Oblivion, Demon's Souls, Fallout. These are amazing games. Not RPG games.

    Recent games like Dragon Age Origins and Valkyria Chronicles makes me believe that true RPGs are back. Bullying this game like you did is a blasphemy. One of the worst reviews I ever read.

    This game is AMAZING, and it is a TRUE RPG. A huge fantasy world full of life and adventures. I give it 10 out of 10 for sure. But if your kind of game is destroy brains with a shotgun you can pass. If your kind of game is complete the main campaign in 8 hours, you can pass. This is a game for those who like an epic adventure with great stuff to do.
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 15:15

  • Kostas #317 2 years ago

    Sorry mate but true RPG's as you like to call them have you venture and change the world you play in, the world -reacts- to you and you react to it. It doesnt have to be in the same scale as Oblivion or Fallout 3 since those are different types of RPG games (and yes they too are indeed RPG games) but DA:o has non of it at all. You say the game is "alive" and i will disagree with full blown proof that it is really is just a barren, empty and small world (gameplay wise).

    This game just seems to be a template, a small step towards something greater and thus i feel buffled that this sub par game was in development for over 6 years. The game "oozes" with casualness development, problems that simply should not have been there to begin there and severe overlooks that just cant be ignored. Especially considering from whom this game was made and how long it was in development. The different story endings are a joke and have no immediate impact in the game (and in gameplay terms) and the "world" itself is designed like all the space the developers had were 5x5 rooms. A "huge" forest like the Brecillian one i was shocked to find that all it was is 5 circle like spaces linked together via narrow passages with walls as high as the players themselves. Orzammar as well, a seemingly huge place to wonder in and all it was is several "rail" like constructs that never let you wonder about at all.

    Sure other RPG games are designed as such but this is just rediculous and it doesnt even do a good job of trying to hide it or something. Everything is forced upon you (which i find is quite bad in "choice" driven game) and everything is supposedly high scale but in reality they are smaller than Vault 101 in fallout 3. Denerim, the HUGE capital was only 6 doors of houses and less than 20 people put together. Dont even get me started on the insanely unbalanced combat. Not all is bad though which is why i feel the game is "mediocre" and not a total craptastic failure but i did expect much more from Bioware who are the developers of the greatest RPG game of all time which is BG2 and Planescape Torment (of which game i still havent found better writting anywhere in any RPG bar Vampire TM: Bloodlines).
    Edited by 1 at 19/01/10 @ 19:33

  • Velios #318 2 years ago

    I bought this game on steam the other night - so far i think its fantastic actually, and it offers REAL depth and plenty of tactical variation and plot outcomes. More so than Mass Effect or Oblivion or the Final fantasy games... sure the actual world could be a little more inspired graphically, but it's perfectly enjoyable.

    The real value here is in the game itself, and I must say that I am really enjoying it.

  • Galnospoke #319 2 years ago

    Good review. Game is boring and I feel like watching some stupid TV show.