The Case for PS Move

By Richard Leadbetter Published 4 September, 2010

And how Sony could have owned motion control six years ago.

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The location: Stanford University. Sony's R&D mastermind Dr Richard Marks is once again showcasing motion control technology with a variety of ingenious technical demos very much along the lines of those recently seen by Digital Foundry. The difference this time is that the date is January 21, 2004 and the host console for the impressive tech is... PlayStation 2.

Marks has been waiting a long time to bring depth-sensitive "3D" motion control to the mass market. Even longer than you might think. His original camera-driven demos for the PS2 have been carbon-dated to before the turn of the century, with his original swords-and-sorcery style demo actually receiving a public outing at the summer ECTS Show at the Islington Design Centre in 2000.

There's even coverage of his work in the launch issue of Future Publishing's Official PlayStation 2 Magazine. Rare's Nick Burton recently talked about their prototype Kinect demo called "seagull" where you flapped your arms and flew around the environment. In that self-same issue of the Official PS2 Mag, you can see pictures of a very similar demo put together by Marks' team using the prototype camera that would one day become EyeToy.

The Stanford University lecture in its 75-minute entirety can be streamed directly, and while the final PlayStation Move hardware is immeasurably more precise, accurate and user-friendly, the precursor to the new motion controller available to PS3 gamers later this month clearly has much in common with the final design.

Back then though, there was no actual motion controller as such - just a series of props, including a long wand-like object with a familiar-looking sphere on the top. The camera and the PS2 does most of the hard work, but curiously there are many echoes from today's Move. For a start, calibration is required. Back in the day this was achieved by taking the sphere and filling an on-screen circle displayed by the PS2. Voila: now the device can track the inanimate object in 3D space. While the implementation is undeniably primitive compared to the final rendition in PlayStation Move, crucially it works rather well.

Augmented reality (or "enhanced reality" as it was known a gaming generation ago) is also covered off with the same style of super-imposed 3D objects overlaid onto the webcam video. By the time of Marks' 2004 presentation, he was already experimenting with 60FPS video, satisfied that the doubling of temporal resolution helps to make the device far more precise and responsive. Clearly, many of the thought processes behind PlayStation Move have been a long time brewing.

Excerpts from Dr. Richard Marks' 2004 presentation at Stanford University.

Nintendo may well have been first to market with the mainstream-friendly Wii, but the Sony R&D team run by Marks has been consistently ahead of the curve. The combination of motion controller and camera was the subject of a patent that dates to the time of the Stanford talk. And there's more.

In the self-same 2004 presentation (around the 58-minute mark), you can also see Marks' direct experimentation with what is then known as the "z-cam" from Israeli company 3DV: a depth-sensitive 3D camera that can map the human body. Over five years before Microsoft announced Project Natal (latterly Kinect) and acquired 3DV's tech, Sony R&D team was already evaluating the sensor, and Marks is clearly fully aware of the potential for gaming.

The reality of the situation must be rather sobering for Sony. It could have owned motion control gaming, but instead Nintendo embraced the concept and left its rivals for dust.

Knowing how long this journey has taken, the functionality, refinement and polish inherent in the final PlayStation Move hardware becomes more understandable. Watch Marks' more recent demos, or better yet, buy Move and a copy of Sport Champions, and hopefully you'll get some idea of why we think that from a hardware perspective, Move is the pick of the bunch of the motion controllers from any of the major platform holders.

However, getting the most out of what Move offers developers is a real challenge, and it's one that we can only hope that Sony and the third party publishers fully embrace. Aside from its precision, where Move can really make a difference is in the way it performs as a true 3D controller. This in itself opens up a colossal array of new game concepts. Let's take a look at a couple of Marks' more recent tech demos in full direct feed glory.

First up, the manipulation of objects in 3D space. You can reach out, grab things and move them around in 3D space. While you might think that Wii MotionPlus would be capable of the same sort of thing, in actuality the applications are more limited. While the motion sensors within Move may well operate with a similar ballpark precision to MotionPlus, the Wii peripheral has no camera lock and the data is prone to drifting. Cover up the glowing sphere on Move and the same thing happens. Motion sensors on their own are not accurate enough.

That being the case, it's fair to say that only Sony's motion controller is consistently capable of achieving stuff like this:

Move is best-in-class at object manipulation in 3D space.

Dual Move control is producing the closest thing yet seen in the games arena to the famous Minority Report user interface. While Kinect may well be the real deal in terms of controller-free interaction, its somewhat infamous inability to track hands and fingers at standard range makes the dream of "that" interface impossible to replicate in real life. Just the process of pressing a button in the games seen thus far is somewhat lengthy and can even be annoying.

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Comments (89) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • NOSAVIOUR #1 1 year ago

    Wow who's been sleeping with Sony. Just because their R&D departments have been dabbling with motion control for years doesn't mean others haven't.

  • drumbaby #2 1 year ago

    Even if others have, doesn't mean Sony hasn't?

  • NotSoSlim #3 1 year ago

    There is video to back up Sony trying different things so its easier to write an article.Just find it amazing that both Ninty and Sony turned down the Kinect type camera. Pretty good article to be fair and detailed
    Edited by 2 at 04/09/10 @ 08:55

  • Dizzy #4 1 year ago

    They will always have 3D!

  • Beano #5 1 year ago

    "Just find it amazing that both Ninty and Sony turned down the Kinect type camera."

    Not really... judging by the Kinect titles so far.
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 08:59

  • supermaniacs #6 1 year ago

    Very good article, and i applaud Sony for focusing the PS3 for the core gamers instead of mega sales and the casual crowd! I for one would choose an Uncharted game over any Motion game any day!!

  • NotSoSlim #7 1 year ago

    @ Beano

    True but still feel the best package would be Move + Kinect but even Sony have said it would be too expensive. Wouldnt be shocked to see that combo on one of the next round of consoles

    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 09:03

  • SG79 #8 1 year ago

    Good read. The question of why it wasn't done years ago can be answered by looking at the turbulent PS3 R&D itself. The company had enough on their hands to worry and focus on.

    I think the Move launch for what it is, is just fine. Core title support (RE5, Heavy Rain etc.) and some shovelware is fine, but I do agree that bundles with two controllers would help adoption for sure and ultimately push developers to support the tech. But the console is almost 4 years old, so it may be a bit late to push motion controls as a de facto feature.

    I'm not interested in motion controls, but it's in a better position than Kinect I think. Sure, MS is having a "platform" launch as suggested but all the software support, both first and third party, is essentially shovelware. Then there is the MSRP.

  • earobus #9 1 year ago

    How long before the kinect has a move style wand?

  • RodHull #10 1 year ago

    Very good article and Richard Marks and his team are clearly visionaries. I just have a nagging feeling that Move will end up being nothing more than Wii 2.0 if it doesn't sell by the bucketload. Sony seem too focused on 3DTV at the minute and all of it's pan-company money making ability.

  • Beano #11 1 year ago

    @NotSoSlim : The Eye camera (part of Move) can allready do many of the things Kinect can... body/head tracking, face and voice recognition, etc. It's all done in software. Sure Kinect may be better at 3D body tracking, but at 30fps and with lag. But who knows - if Move is a success, PS4 may include next gen Move tech - both 3D camera (like Kinect) and accurate 3D motion controller :)
    Edited by 3 at 04/09/10 @ 09:17

  • jag10 #12 1 year ago

    i think it's good that sony spent the time to get it right instead of rushing it just to get it out. Although they did miss a big opportunity. if they could of got move ready for the PS3 launch then this gen would of been no contest lol.

  • mowgli #13 1 year ago

    So why didn't Sony make more of the PSEye Toy? Oh, yeah, because it resulted in shit games, which no developer wanted to develop upon. I wonder how long it takes MS to realise this with their almost identical idea.

  • Beano #14 1 year ago

    "So why didn't Sony make more of the PSEye Toy?"

    Maybe because accelerators, tilt-sensors, etc. were not accurate or cheap enough at that time?

    AND... another platform holder had not proved the technology as mainstream yet ;)
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 09:21

  • UsernamePending #15 1 year ago

    I'm not really looking forward to holding glowing coloured balls in my hands while gaming - Maybe I'm not "hardcore" enough.

  • Brianstorm #16 1 year ago

    Looking forward to move and some multiplayer sports champions in a couple of weeks. Nice article. Also EG when are we a proper iPad version of your app?

  • RodHull #17 1 year ago

    Oh and if we're talking who kicked off the motion control thingy, MS had their Sidewinder controller in the 90s and Matel had that PowerGlove doodah in the 80s. Neither were much cop but it shows how long that folks have been developing them.

  • woodnotes #18 1 year ago

    "i think it's good that sony spent the time to get it right instead of rushing it just to get it out"

    Indeed, Nintendo made a massive mistake "rushing" the Wii out. I'm not sure they'll ever recover.

  • TheBard #19 1 year ago

    I was looking forward to Move. Everybody was talking about precision of movement, but I had the opportunity to spend some time with the Move-controlled SOCOM at Gamescom and was severely disappointed. I (and the others people next to me on the other terminals) really sucked at the game. Aiming wasn't precise at all, moving around was a hassle ... all in all I wanted my standard DualShock controller back.

    I don't see me playing FPS with Move anytime soon.

  • hesido #20 1 year ago

    Anything that doesn't get bundled default with a console will have very limited user-base. That's why, move will always be an after-thought for high-profile games. Move exclusive titles will always be low-budget titles, I tell you. I don't think naughty dog would work on a move exclusive game, or at least spend more than a month with it.

  • FogHeart #21 1 year ago

    Could Sony have released a console like the Wii a long time ago? Yes. Should they have done so? No. It was the correct thing for Nintendo but certainly not for Sony.

    As the Wii has shown, suddenly going from conventional control to motion only is sharply divisive, especially - as it would have been for Sony - being first to market meant your motion controller is an early iteration that lacks precision, reliability and performance (my issues with Kinect). I say that's inappropriate for Sony but OK for Nintendo because Sony, with their PS2, leaned far more on third parties for their library of great games than Nintendo. While the Nintendo fans were willing to flock to the Wii knowing that, as before, they would be satisfied with the games produced by the company and little else, Sony would have been more reliant on third parties to produce games. The third parties would have largely produced the usual minigame/party game titles that an imprecise motion controller seems to inspire, and Sony would have found their huge installed userbase who bought the PS2 abandoning the company's products in droves.

    This is the third iteration of wand-like motion control in this gen (Wiimote, MotionPlus, now Move) and there's a sense that it has 'arrived'- there's no more that can be done. Watching vids I seem to see a little lag, but then I recall that early Wii games such as Red Steel also had slightly floaty control, which has since disappeared. I hope that in time it becomes nice and crisp. Otherwise, if that tiny lag is hardware based, we do indeed need another iteration :(

    Already we are seeing misuse of the controller in games. What I know from Wii FPS is, map functions to buttons and only use gestures when you run out. The Wii controller, with a paucity of buttons as it was designed to be turned around and used horizontally too (see Mario Kart, Metroid M) runs out of buttons quickly. The Move, replicating all of the right side of the SixAxis, has no excuse. Oi Guerilla! Reload by twisting? Melee by jabbing? No thanks.

    I see the point made about the first set of games not exploiting Move to its fullest. Certainly they seem to be versions of existing Wii games, just exploiting the better precision of Move rather than its better range of abiilities. But it's best not to immediately blind the early adopters with science! I'm happy to wait for Little Big Planet 2 to fully utlilise the motion control in intuitive level building. That one might be the killer app.

    Bundling more than one controller in a box is a risky move. We're in a sad situation that consoles traditionally come with just the one controller, so when we see the headline price we all assume that it's for just the one controller with the console. Bundling two controllers and hiking the price, this late in the game, would result in poor sales as the public just don't register that this one has two controllers when comparing console prices. As it is, it's doubtful that we'll see games designed for two Moves per person outside of an esoteric first party game or two. Even though Nintendo released an early game with a bundled extra controller for no more money than the game itself, still there are no games that assume the user can dual-wield.

  • drumbaby #22 1 year ago

    Just ordered RE5 Gold Edition...I am ready for Move :)

  • Arwin #23 1 year ago

    "Maybe because accelerators, tilt-sensors, etc. were not accurate or cheap enough at that time?

    AND... another platform holder had not proved the technology as mainstream yet ;)"

    Yeah, Beano, I think that's pretty much the correct answer, as I have quote somewhere from Richard Marks stating very similar things. They were extremely focussed on getting a workable 'controller-less' experience using camera technology, and one that could cover sufficient ground to become the default controller. What Nintendo showed them and woke them up to (and he says this literally) is the fact that people are fine with having a controller in their hands, as long as it is simple and intuitive enough. Once they realised that, which was pretty soon after the Wii launched as in the first year on the market Wii sold 20 million, they went to work and the Move controller is the result.

    @TheBard: you should look at MAG instead. The beta supports the Move already, and first videos are trickling out onto youtube. Crucial here is calibration and customisation: you can set both vertical and horizontal bounding box preferences as well as rotation speed separately for each of the 3 views (regular, scope/looking over the gun, sniper (zoomed scope).

    As for the article, good read and I agree pretty much with all of this. The only addition that I would want to make (apart from Flight Control supporting four players afaik, using any kind of controller including even the navcon) is that so far, just about anything that Richard and/or Anton have shown as a tech demo, has made it into an actual game:

    - moving and stacking blocks in 3D space demo: worked straight into a game in Tumble, which also supports 3D, and two Move controllers. To some extent, also the 3D cooking game in TV superstars, which although I'm not sure it makes for great gameplay, is a good demo of the tech at least.
    - augmented reality (sword overlaying the Move): Start the Party, EyePet, etc.
    - RTS controls demo: RUSE has it and works great, particularly considering how short before launch they managed to get it in there (demo already on PSN supporting it, game comes out 5 days before Move launches) and Under Siege.
    - Archery demo, sword and shield demo: in Sports Champions
    - hitting a ball in 3D space with a paddle or a club: Sports Champions, MLB the Show, Virtua Tennis 4, Racquet Sports (though from memory I'm not 100% sure that it doesn't just work like the Wii version)
    - gun-con style shooting: The Shoot, Time Crisis, Dead Space: Extraction
    - first person shooter controls: MAG, Killzone 3, Socom 4 (should be in that order, as that's the order they release in and since MAG is zipper and out there for all MAG owners, it should be the go-to game for evaluating FPS shooting right now, but few seem to be fully aware its out there yet)
    - camera control with Move: flashlight control in Echochrome 2 is exactly that, if you think about it
    - using two Move controllers: Sports Champions, The Fight, Tumble

    In other words, I'm sure that we'll see the avatar customisation options / object creation appear somewhere before long, too, though obviously as time goes on things become more difficult.

    As for two Move controllers, it is at least encouraging that Sports Champions encourages players to get two controllers both for multi-player and for additional options in a few of the single player experiences (Beach Volley, Archery, Gladiator Duel). This will help encourage dual Move ownership. But personally, I am already happy if single Move ownership becomes a large 'minority' or even a majority. I do think it has the potential for it.

  • TTP #24 1 year ago

    Great article Richard. Just a correction. Flight Control HD is not limited to 2 players coop. It supports up to 4.

  • The-Bodybuilder #25 1 year ago

    Yeah, the whole "sony were researching on motion control" isn't new, or exclusive to others. As others said, even MS were doing it a while back. And from a console prespective, SEGA were researching into it (and I don't mean the samba maracas) for the DC before it's demise.

    A bit off tangent, but this...
    Moving forward, Sony is on the record as saying that it is currently developing PlayStation 4, almost certain to be deeply integrated with stereoscopic 3D.

    As someone who can only see through one eye, does that mean I might as well just abandon the PS4 too?

  • FogHeart #26 1 year ago

    Christ, no. When MS and Sony made HD consoles, did they ditch SD? Just as making an HD game produce SD resolutions is trivial, so is creating a 2D game from a 3D capable one.

  • barkertron #27 1 year ago

    The mess of potential controller configurations could cause Sony some headaches - this is something they really need to sort out for PS4. Currently there are four potential setups for PS3 owners:

    - One dualshock (everyone will have this)
    - One move controller only (only people who buy Move)
    - One move controller plus navigation controller/dualshock (only people who buy Move)
    - Two move controllers (only people who buy two Moves)

    The only solution I can see solving this problem - for the PS4 at least - is a new Move controller which also features an analogue stick. If two were bundled with new systems as standard then suddenly everyone has the same potential to use Move in all its possible controller configurations, as well as play more typical (i.e. not motion-controlled) games.

    Might make the controller a bit of a mess though.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #28 1 year ago

    My two cents:

    Even if Sony had released motion controllers with the PS2, I don't think it would have had a Wii-sized impact. Sony probably wouldn't have marketed it the way Nintendo marketed the Wii, and that I think is crucial: a "family" brand (Ninty always skews younger than Sony), friendly packaging and design, cheap price... it was more than just motion control IMO.

    I agree that the best combination would be Kinect + controller: a tracking wand like Move, with buttons on it. I wonder if come PS4/Xbox 720 we'll see some sort of depth sensor in the Move camera, or wand controller for Kinect, or even if Kinect by then will be accurate enough to track fingertips the way Move tracks the ball? Of course, you're still left without buttons.

    Anyway, really good article. I do think Move shows a lot of immediate promise, even if Kinect I feel has more long-term benefit (and I do wish I had a PS3!).

  • JohnnyWashnGo #29 1 year ago

    I actually can't wait for my move to be delivered. It looks like a load of fun.

  • ThePissartist #30 1 year ago

    The bias of these articles has reached a new high. How much can I take seriously any more? He mentions "we" think it's the best motion, does the rest of the Eurogamer staff have the same opinion?

  • drumbaby #31 1 year ago

    - One dualshock (everyone will have this) -- so, no problem then
    - One move controller only (only people who buy Move) -- so not a problem for people who don't want Move
    - One move controller plus navigation controller/dualshock (only people who buy Move) -- the expensive option, but it's an option, not mandatory
    - Two move controllers (only people who buy two Moves) -- buying multiple controllers isn't a problem. People do this all the time on all systems.

  • ThePissartist #32 1 year ago

    The author states that a combination if head tracking and the wand create an approximation of body tracking, then near the video it states Move actually performs motion control. I swear this guy's on Sony's payroll.

  • dsmx #33 1 year ago

    The impression that move has given everyone who has an unbiased view is that move is the best motion controller out there.

    It's more accurate than the wiimote even with motion plus and kinect well it doesn't work at the moment it's laggy and has no proper games.

    I fail to see how this article is biased, move works and it works well. It's not perfect but the launch titles are all solid, they all work and they are all fun what more can you ask from launch titles?
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 12:30

  • Goodfella #34 1 year ago

    @ ThePissartist

    Whose payroll are you on?

  • albinac #35 1 year ago

    move sounds ok when you consider that the writer even says that it may not have anything to rival the wii motion plus. i just think it to be a too little too late on behalf of sony and microsoft. maybe next gen we will have a better approach to motion controls and cheaper too. i mean €100 for move out of the box and €150 for kinect, what are they thinking with this type of pricing structure. its not about oh nintendo charges €30 for its wii mote and €20 for its nunchuck so its pretty close to the price of the move and its nunchuck rip off no, you have to buy the camara as well and that is a lot to ask of someone who like me paid €600 at launch for the ps3.

    im affraid i will not be paying more money to sony for this console and especially for a 4 year late attempt at motion controls. too little too late, ohh and i wont be buying kinect either for my xbox360(kind of slim). this generation is over them in my book and it dose not matter what they say or do to convince me.maybe next gen at launch when a high price point is semi justiviable but this gen no.no!no!no!no!no!no.

  • Spekingur #36 1 year ago

    So wait, this article is pointing out that Sony could have owned the motion control market AND could have limited MS developing Kinect by acquiring 3DV as early as 2004?

    Can these be put down to bad decisions by Sony?

  • UsernamePending #37 1 year ago

    They ought to get David Beckham, aka "Golden Balls", to sell the Move controller.

    And for full motion control, they should bring out some glowing balls for your legs - and one to wear on your head.

  • dsmx #38 1 year ago

    Also doesn't the move controller mean that konami can put the wii control scheme for PES into the PS3 version?

  • GreyBeard #39 1 year ago

    For me, the most interesting applications for Move lie in areas that make use of its ability to detect fine positional/orientational detail, stuff like Tumble and Echochrome II where its about precise manipulation of objects in the screen-space.

    Not only is it the area where Kinect is at its weakest (as Richard notes, "big" movement activities like dancing and exercising are its strong suit) but its the area where thanks to PS3 being a HD console you can afford to do things you can't on Wii.

    Ideally I hope it will allow RTS and other traditional PC (KB+Mouse) game-styles to make a "comeback" on console, because realistically gamepads are the reason they've fallen out of favour.

  • hy4000uk #40 1 year ago

    downplaying the 3DS and lauding the PS3 Move

    DigitalFoundy is full of retards

  • CrumpledPaper #41 1 year ago

    Good article, but this:

    "Perhaps an alternative would have been to go for Microsoft's approach, where Kinect has been set up as a parallel brand - almost like a platform launch - in its own right, complete with a library of bespoke titles and a substantial commitment from third party publishers, but again this has not happened."

    is very unfair, and very untrue. Sony has announced more self-published games for Move and more third party games for Move than MS or third parties have for Kinect. Nearly 60 games in total running into the early part of next year. I don't think Kinect even has 20.

    If you're talking about just dedicated Move titles, I think there's still more. But it's hardly Move's fault if it can be easily supported in games alongside the Dualshock - games that also have a full Move control scheme shouldn't be discounted from a support or commitment point of view.
    Edited by 2 at 04/09/10 @ 13:21

  • knightmt #42 1 year ago

    3D, motion control is this how Sony are going to get the maximum lifetime for the ps3.
    I am very interested to see how this works especially on FPS.

  • ThePissartist #43 1 year ago

    I'm on the payroll of a research company (even if it has nothing to do with videogames).

  • TheRealBadabing #44 1 year ago

    I was all for Natal when it was first shown; it seemed like the more versatile technology. When it became Kinect it lost a load of potential and my interest.

    Now I am quite jealous of PS3 owners as Move looks rather good. Hopefully Sony will push devs as the article suggests and we will see some innovative stuff.

  • The-Bodybuilder #45 1 year ago

    Christ, no. When MS and Sony made HD consoles, did they ditch SD?

    No.....but I did.
    I just hate the idea that most people will be playing an optimised and there-I-say, having a better experience of a game that I can't have.

    And the jump from SD to HD is nowhere near is dramatic as the jump to 3D.

  • des #46 1 year ago

    And that is why Move will flop,Sony has no idea how to make motion controls appealing to people,unlike Nintendo.Nintendo understands what casuals want and they delivered...without yelling "HD,Blu-ray,Cell,precision,tech,3D ..blah,blah".

    Same thing goes with 3DS,Nintendo will crush any 3D device...why?because they will deliver full package that will appeal to anyone,not some rushed me-too job

    "downplaying the 3DS and lauding the PS3 Move"
    EG will have an heart attack when they see sales(and support) for both things...lol...funny times incoming

  • Kerome #47 1 year ago

    Seriously, I don't see the point. Anyone who wanted this kind of motion control will have bought a Wii years ago, and all Sony is offering is motion-control-enabled hardcore games for their current fans. It's a marginal broadening of their platform, and will have very little impact on their bottom line.

    Kinect is the bigger, bolder gamble. It will be interesting to see how it turns out...

  • Zaiz #48 1 year ago

    Okay, my big question here is: How was Sony consistently ahead if the Wii came out years earlier!?

    Edit: Let me explain my position a little better. I don't care if Sony had a motion controller in development before the Wii, and I don't care that they've had the PSEye for years. Why? Because details on hardware and software in development are so often outright lies in the gaming industry that they cannot be taken for truth. The PSEye isn't actually a "motion controller".

    Plus the sixaxis was gimmicky bullocks to a degree wiimote waggling couldn't even hope to be. Like for Killzone 2, with the three or four spin the sixaxis moments in the entire damn game, like they had some sort of quota to fill.
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 15:40

  • Beano #49 1 year ago

    "The PSEye isn't actually a "motion controller"."

    Maybe, but Kinect (which is very similar) is commonly referenced as a motion controller/device.

  • CrumpledPaper #50 1 year ago

    Zaiz - the reference to Sony being ahead of the curve was specifically a reference to Richard Mark's R&D team and his work internally. Not a reference to product Sony brought to the market. As the article bemoans, Sony at large missed a huge opportunity to capitalize on the work Marks was doing in a timely fashion.

  • oreillymj #51 1 year ago

    Not Invented Here syndrome. It's prevalent in big companies. If Richard Mark's was Japanese, you can bet the Move controller would have been released much earlier.

  • murphsp1 #52 1 year ago

    My guess is that Move is three things:
    1) keeping up with the competitors
    2) testing out concepts for PS4 (a long beta test)
    3) push developers into truly exploring the capabilities of these new interfaces

  • TheMitch #53 1 year ago

    Sony should have made the standard control scheme a Move Controller and a Nav Controller...but the Nav Controller with a ball on top so that all is needed for a full single player control set was two controllers and not two Move Controllers and a Nav Controller (or half a dualshock3).

    It would have been in Sony's interest to follow this route.

    I think they also should have gone with a 1280x720p 3D camera, so that augmented reality could display you in 3D while you have stereoscopy turned on with Move Controllers...that would be an all round amazing control scheme.

    The bundles could be...

    PlayStation Move Controller Set (Move Controller and Nav Controller[nav controller with ball on top]) - £49.99

    PlayStation Eye 3D Camera - £29.99

    First Party Playstation Move-specific PS3 Games - Blu-ray = £24.99 or Download = £19.99

    Third Party Playstation Move-specific PS3 Games - Blu-ray = £29.99 or Download = £24.99

    PlayStation Move Starter Pack (Move Controller, Nav controller, PS Eye 3D, Game) - £99.99

  • TonyHarrison #54 1 year ago

    Surely the clue as to why it's taken them this long to release the thing is in the video itself. It was just a ball on a stick then... No buttons, no interior sensors, no nothing.

    That and they had to wait for it to be a success for someone else before they finally realised it was quite good...

  • dsmx #55 1 year ago

    Sony's history in the games console market is they take a new technology that someone else has brought to market and improve it to a point that you don't need to make a compromise to use it.

    You can say all you want about sony copying but when they do copy they make it much better than the original version. As an example see the original dualshock pad that was based on the snes and n64 pad but they made it into something much better than both.
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 18:53

  • makeamazing #56 1 year ago

    The move is meant to undercut what nintendo would have done next which is release a Wii HD next year. Why would Sony, when they have the tech, allow the Wii to come out with a HD device next year with the wii mote, and then Nintendo can then again take all the customers who want a HD wiimote based device. This is Sony's way of getting in first and saying we are the only HD device (first) that can do pointer based games. They can also turn round and say, we have all of these things our device can do, while you are getting a limited experience on other platforms.

    Now do i care that is probably their reason, no, because its pretty easy to implement into normal games for the PS3 and has limited impact into a games design, but in certain games it will be the better controll method (Socom 4 looks like a title that will push that concept). So there is no reason for normal games not to support it, which means no risk for developers. Yes that does mean less 3rd party new content, but even so, i think most gamers on the PS3 just want good games to work with the device.

  • NotSoSlim #57 1 year ago

    Hoping some multiplat's get Move support as its apparently easy to implement. Hoping Dead Space 2 is a start as the PS3 version of Extraction does
    Edited by 1 at 04/09/10 @ 19:54

  • witchdrash #58 1 year ago

    I have to be honest, after the wii debacle I saw move and though nahhhh, and was convinced Kinect was the way forward, that just hasn't worked out, as the kinect is expensive (for a person who tends to play solo!) and has a whole heap of issues, the move seems the most interesting out of the two, but limited game support, may pick it up on launch, but not sure, definitely not grabbing kinect though until something comes out that justifies me layout out £129

  • dsmx #59 1 year ago

    Limited game support for move? There's 60 games for it in the next few months.

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #60 1 year ago

    "That being the case, it's fair to say that only Sony's motion controller is consistently capable of achieving stuff like this:"

    Well that and the sixsense controller coming to pc. http://www.ra zerzone.com/motionsensing/

  • captain-future #61 1 year ago

    I've heard from a friend that he thinks Wii (remote) is great but he waits for PS3 Move just to go with HD-graphics... so PS3 Move is essentially Wii-HD.

    It's a bit of a gamble on Sony's part. If it works they have a fighting chance in the market in the way that maybe lots of people want to upgrade to HD graphics and the precision is advanced with Move. So could be a big winner for Sony.

    On the other hand it could backfire because lots of "shovelware" games are released on Move that customers know already and won't buy a second time. It's always the first mover (Nintendo Wii) that will have the upper hand.

    We'll see.


    Side note on Kinect... I'm very sceptical because it's an even bigger risk that Microsoft takes but at least nobody can say it's just Wii with HD added to it.

  • ThePissartist #62 1 year ago

    I thought digitalfoundry was all about non-biased honesty - apparently that's no longer true.

    Can the author HONESTLY feel that he can state that Move can 'track the upper body'? Check Youtube, there's plenty of videos showing that mannequin going mental (not tracking in any way) - all it's based on the the distance of the face and two sticks in space, not arms/body AT ALL.

    Weeks before Move is released, we get this article - it's absolute scandal.

  • CrumpledPaper #63 1 year ago

    Thought_Criminal - that's not entirely fair. They pushed camera-based motion gaming onto the market before anyone else did so, which indeed could even be seen as one early pioneer of the whole motion gaming movement. I remember a presentation Nintendo did in Europe some years back that even acknowledged eyetoy's role in the 'evolution' and history of motion gaming.

  • dsmx #64 1 year ago

    @ThePissartist how is move going mental in this video http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=XjBmkur7Lt0 that video clearly shows move tracking your body independently of you hands. Go back to your cave and accept that move is perfectly capable of body tracking.

  • SG79 #65 1 year ago

    The thing is, Sony have a history of following trends, rather than setting them, when it comes to control methods.

    Eye Toy and PS Eye were exceptions to the rule, and design wise, the handles on a controller instead of a flat pad. Interestingly though, Kutaragi did want the PS1 controller to be essentially a carbon copy of the SNES one, but the designer, backed by Sony's president at the time pushed for the handles that became staples.

    [link url=http://w ww.1up.com/news/playstation-1-design
    ]http://ww w.1up.com/news/playstation-1-de...[/link]

  • coolbritannia #66 1 year ago

    Hmm, EG posting an ad article for Sony, slating the Microsoft offering, Goodfella defending Sony, it's 2005 all over again!

  • Reedo #67 1 year ago

    At the end of the day, Sony (or any third parties for that matter) are not going to waste their time tapping into the true potential of the Move unless they sell by the shed load, so it will just be shovel ware central. I just can't see any triple A titles akin to Mario Galaxy appearing on the PS3 that are exclusive to Move owners. Shame really, but this was never meant to be a competition to gain the money of the hardcore crowd.

  • toa_boa #68 1 year ago

    "And how Sony could have owned motion control six years ago."
    But they couldn't - they were busy telling the world that motion control was a gimmick, and that rumble was "last gen" tech.

  • Beano #69 1 year ago

    "Side note on Kinect... I'm very sceptical because it's an even bigger risk that Microsoft takes but at least nobody can say it's just Wii with HD added to it. "

    So true - Kinect is just EyeToy with hype added to it :D

  • ThePissartist #70 1 year ago

    @dsmb

    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S0wWoDz9n Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=1S0wWoDz9...[/link]

    Isit tracking his arms and body when he made the character 'fat'. When he's dancing at the beginning, is it tracking his arms then?

  • ThePissartist #71 1 year ago

    (rhetorical questions)

  • ThePissartist #72 1 year ago

    @dsmb

    I Just watched your video. It demonstrates the same thing (i.e., no tracking.)

  • dsmx #73 1 year ago

    The video I posted shows that firstly it tracks his body like I said I didn't say it tracked his arms. The body tracking is for moving the view around the screen in that video which again move is doing. The move takes a guess at where your elbows are which is why it looks a bit weird. However at least it doesn't twist your arms into insane positions like that avatar video demo that I've seen for kinect.

    Reedo bringing up SMG is not a good idea since that game didn't really use motion controls for anything that interesting.
    Edited by 1 at 05/09/10 @ 10:01

  • UsernamePending #74 1 year ago

    @dsmx The elbow tracking would be easily fixed if they bought out glowing elbow-balls for the Move.

  • Goodfella #75 1 year ago

    Hmm, EG posting an ad article for Sony, slating the Microsoft offering, Goodfella defending Sony, it's 2005 all over again!

    Uh? What are you on about?

  • Ryze #76 1 year ago

    Unless Sony pull their finger out, this could end up being like a steering wheel in terms of the availability and quality of support.

  • HisDudness #77 1 year ago

    I guess what the Move has over Kinect in terms of support, is the wealth of Sony's first party developers. No doubt Sony will lean on these developers to include Move functionality along side of - or in place of - traditional Dual Shock support. Same goes for 3D support. 3rd party developers on the other hand will have to wait and see what kind of traction Move gets with users...

  • dsmx #78 1 year ago

    Move has 60 titles announced for it I think that counts as support, it can also be patched into older games so it's perfectly possible that every game released could get support for it.

    But no carry on being pessimistic it's not as if every place has said move works well, oh wait they have. Even MSN did an film on move and they say it works well but carry on with the move hate, its rather funny seeing people post stuff that isn't based on facts, reason, logic or evidence.

  • Reedo #79 1 year ago

    Mario galaxy made use of the Wii controller in a way that was intuitive and pleasurable to use for any audience. It was an instant classic and actually did use motion controls, at least within the Wiimote's capabilities, to their best potential. All I was saying is that PS move will never see those kind of titles because people owning the controller(s) will always be in a minority.

  • berryl227 #80 1 year ago

    Well I've taken the jump and pre ordered today. The thing that convinced was not the 'shovel ware' line up as some would call it (although I'm sure I will pick up sports at launch) it is the retro fitting of move in older games e.g resi mag etc. this gives me hope that future games will really make good use of the tech fingers crossed

  • ThePissartist #81 1 year ago

    @dsmb

    It's not tracking the body (torso) either; it's based on the pre-determined body size, along with the position of the player's head. I'd argue that if you tilted/rotated your body while keeping the remotes in the same position, it would have no effect on screen.

  • dsmx #82 1 year ago

    Regardless of how you look at it the camera moved as the players body moved even when the controllers remained still, the in game camera moved as the player leaned to the left or right. I fail to see how you can say that it it can't do body tracking when the camera moved as the players body moved, body tracking I have a suspicion involves tracking the body something which is shown in those videos.

  • 3william56 #83 1 year ago

    Ummm... P-Artist, what's the value in body tracking anyway?

    Hands? Yep - basis of the control and interaction, aiming. Left stick equivalent.
    Head? Yep - viewpoint and top border of character. Right stick equivalent.
    Body? Short of mapping DoA boob physics, what's the point? What does it add to a game (particularly as you can safely assume the body is 8" below the head and midway between the hands?

    You're nit picking.

  • Reedo #84 1 year ago

    Well William, if you accept that Digital Foundry can include false statements in an *ahem* unbiased article then you are obviously being too obtuse to understand Pissartist's rather unarguable point. And if it's nit picking you're after, using your head as a way to control viewpoint would make you feel very dizzy, very quickly. Especially in 3D games.

  • dfua #85 1 year ago

    I've decided to cancel my move order.

    It's just not worth all the cash for me right now. I already have the camera, but the main launch title I'd be interested in is Sports Champions. To buy the game and two move controllers (for two player or the events that use two) would set me back about £80. Thats without buying the nav controller, which I'd prefer to have than bodging the DS3 in my left hand. The rest of the launch line up does little for me, then there's the issue of the controllers being rechargeable. It's just too much cash for one game, maybe a few PSN titles and potential.

    Before anyone goes crazy I feel the same way about Kinect. I'll stick with the Wii for motion party games and everything else using regular controllers, until there is enough to convince me otherwise.

  • FunkeeFresh #86 1 year ago

    I find it hard not to be on the fence with motion controllers. I would describe myself as a COD gamer (casual/hardcore depending on seasons), and bought a Wii at launch. I played Zelda and loved it, I thought Nintendo were really onto something. After Zelda, I could not find anything close to a good game, so I sold it a year later.

    I've always had a PS3 , but I'm not going to buy move anytime soon. I think DF have a point. If Sony don't sell move in the right way, its not going to take off. Boxing it with PS3s is a good idea, but i think Move is more for the financial gain and to prevent MS from gaining any ground, otherwise Sony could have held out for a full 3D console, the PS4.

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #87 1 year ago

    @^

    yeah, but would you rather spend $50 - $100+ for a new way to play or $600-$800+?

  • Kestana #88 1 year ago

    @ Beano

    You do realize that the Kinect can actually measure depth and that its infrared depth sensors can actually work in pitch dark unlike the EyeToy (which is exactly why they need those glowing orbs), right?

    You pull a leg at your presumed features of the devices without taking into consideration the enabling technology which is often abstracted from the user. It may work like how they envisioned the EyeToy to over half a decade ago, but several technologies back then weren't available. Particularly the infrared depth sensors and accompanying database and API which can be used to reference several thousands of possible human gestures.

    For many people, most likely including you, it's just a glorified web camera. Well, it's not.

  • Sabreman64 #89 1 year ago

    This article suggests that Sony should sell Move with every PS3 as a standard bundle. I sincerely hope Sony don't do that. I don't yet own a PS3, but when I buy one within the next year or two, I don't want to be forced to pay more for the console because it's bundled with Move which I don't want and won't use. My Wii has been collecting dust for a couple of years now. I've had quite enough of motion sensing shovelware on my Wii, and don't want motion sensing on my PS3 too when I eventually buy one.