Bushnell does like some games

By Tom Bramwell Published 25 October, 2007

Not a Halo 3 or GTA fan, though.

Having heroically declared that all modern games are rubbish just the other week, Atari founder Nolan Bushnell has gone back on his comments to some extent and paid tribute to Tetris, The Sims, Spore, Wii Sports, Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero as laudable examples of innovation.

Bushnell had said, you may remember, that "Video games today are a race to the bottom", describing them generally as "pure, unadulterated trash" that made him "sad". Speaking to GameTap, Bushnell clarified his stance. "What I have consistently been concerned about is sort of the repetition and the lack of innovation," he explained. "Innovation is one of those things that I value very highly, and I just find that as much as I applaud the beautiful, fantastic production guys of Halo 3, it's really Doom 1 in different clothing."

Bushnell also attacked the Grand Theft Auto series, which "not only doesn't teach you anything, it teaches you the wrong things" and "values antisocial behaviour". Rubbish jumping animation, too.

Ultimately, his core argument is that innovation is largely absent from modern videogame development - something he extends to console hardware manufacturers too, whinging about the PS3 but celebrating the Wii - and he rejects the interviewer's assertion that in business, "it's almost impossible to ask that level of sort of creativity and that rapid evolution". "Not true," Bushnell responds. "Let me tell you...you know, the knives that kill innovation are the editors. Too many of the innovative ideas are killed at the decision-making stage of what is going to be produced."

Check out the rest of the interview for Bushnell's reflections on games like Tetris, for which he has a tremendous admiration, and the rest of his reaction to the reaction.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (40) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Golgo #1 4 years ago

    Why doesn't he just run along and play with his 6ft psycho-mouse, or something?

  • Whizzo #2 4 years ago

    "not only doesn't teach you anything, it teaches you the wrong things"

    One or the other Nolan.

  • Artemis_Matsas #3 4 years ago

    I think that he's just bitter.

  • afghan_jones #4 4 years ago

    well if you look at the whole package of halo 3 it is quite innovative in its use of saved films, 4 player co-op, forge and so forth.

    As for GTA, while he may not like some of it's values theres no real denying that it innovated in being the first real 'sandbox' freeroaming city game and in its use of radio stations.

    Also, Tetris as a 'modern game'???? Fuck off.

  • VMerken #5 4 years ago

    He's not wrong, just impatient. Every "creative" industry usually rides on the wave of some particular innovation, until the next major innovation comes along. Then, the new wave is ridden while developers combine the "new thing" with just about everything else. The problem is, innovation is HARD. It's like creating a new scientific theory or proof out of nowhere, and most people can do that only a few times in their entire life.

    So, mr. Bushnell, you are in a position where you can make a difference when it comes to video games. Choose wisely:

    (a) Whine about the state of affairs
    (b) Do not whine about the state of affairs

    and combine it with:

    (c) Innovate
    (d) Do not innovate

    then combine it with

    (e) Make a game using it
    (f) Do not make a game using it

    I'd recommend (b)+(c)+(e). Kind of keeps you from eating your own words later on.

  • The-Bodybuilder #6 4 years ago

    Who is this guy? And why should we care?

  • Chaote-Imagicka #7 4 years ago

    "well if you look at the whole package of halo 3 it is quite innovative in its use of saved films, 4 player co-op, forge "

    Forge maybe but the 4 player co-op and built in video capture? That's just technological innovation not gameplay innovation.

  • Rodney #8 4 years ago

    He is wrong, just because there are clearly defined genres does not mean that games are not innovative.

    Look at films, many creative and innovative films still conform to the conventions of their particular genre. It would be impossible for every new film to create a new genre just as it would be with games.

  • Killerbee #9 4 years ago

    I've always thought GTA3 was one of the most innovative games of the last generation. Sure, Vice City and San Andreas were evolution, rather than revolution, but GTA3 was miles ahead of Driver 2.

    I also can't argue with Tetris being one of the few examples of perfect game design (at least it is in its original Gameboy incarnation). But I wouldn't necessarily say that the clever peripherals of Guitar Hero or Dance Dance Revolution are really gaming innovations - they're still just button pressing games.

  • lucasmax #10 4 years ago

    "Innovation is one of those things that I value very highly, and I just find that as much as I applaud the beautiful, fantastic production guys of Halo 3, it's really Doom 1 in different clothing."

    So we just make a original game then fuck off and think of something different, rather than refining gaming ideas until they are polished and a shining homage of what came before.

    Doom is Spasim in different clothing!

    Cock

  • mark1bdi #11 4 years ago

    I love this site's reviews but what is the point of repeating all of Kotaku's news features several hours afterwards.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #12 4 years ago

    Who is this guy? And why should we care?

    He's like the world's most legendary pizza restauranteur.

  • DanWhitehead #13 4 years ago

    The sad thing is, if you look back to the salad days of the late 70s and early 80s, you'll see that among the early innovators there loads of games that were "inspired by" other arcade cabinets...and many of them were made by Atari.

  • Inspirius #14 4 years ago

    Has he not played the sublime Portal?

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #15 4 years ago

    among the early innovators there loads of games that were "inspired by" other arcade cabinets...and many of them were made by Atari.

    Including 'pong' that a certain Nolan Bushnell ripped off from Ralph Baer's Magnavox Odyssey version.

  • Macross #16 4 years ago

    Its nice to innovate in a game but its not exactly required to make a good game. I always thought games had to be fun before anything else.

    You could make the most innovative game ever and it could still be shit. I think he's missing the point somewhere.

  • dudefella #17 4 years ago

    Oh Bushnell, just shut up - cut your losses and run. Halo 3 = Doom? Really? You're making yourself look even more stupid.

  • SilasMalkav #18 4 years ago

    Good Story + Fun > "OMG I can play it with my ear now" style innovation.

  • rashes #19 4 years ago

    @Rodney +1

    Innovate, blah blah... this discussion seems to be constantly brought up.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there alot of innovation lately.

    mass market online multiplayer gaming, co-op play over the net, large widespread MMOs, the Wii, the DS, the Casual gamer scene, Guitar Hero, Portal, Katamari, XBLA and PSN, DLC, Brain Age, Achievements.... etc, etc.

    And also the many many games that are taking current genres and adding to and refining them... ala Halo 3 (saved films, forge), Bioshock, Forza (car art, Forza TV, auction house) etc.
    Thats also innovation.
    Edited by 2 at 25/10/07 @ 11:45

  • tobsen #20 4 years ago

    I smell a grumpy old man.

  • DFective #21 4 years ago

    This is non-news; some old guy saying "they don't make 'em like they used to," and "back in my day..."

  • Machetazo #22 4 years ago

    If innovation is absent, it's because innovation is risky. If you innovate, but the result is a bad game, then it's no longer viewed as innovation, but a right royal mess up. However, if your innovation pays off, then you become a ninja of your genre. But publishers are wary of taking those risks if they can make money easier from titles offering established types of gameplay.

    Also, he entirely misses the point of GTA. The game's not trying to, and never has attested to, be teaching anyone, anything. It's just this sandbox, that you can run riot in. Usually there's a storyline to give it some point, too. Leave your brain on standby, and jump in, Mr. Bushnell. Or go and play something more targeted to your tastes, instead.

  • AliRay #23 4 years ago

    NOLAN BUSHNELL IS A "CASUAL GAMER". DO NOT TRUST HIM!

  • Mr_Bogus #24 4 years ago

    Couldn't agree more with him. Although bread-and-butter, non innovative games are like the generic comedies, action movies, etc that keep the film industry going, in between the unique/original hits.

  • IAmBatman #25 4 years ago

    Guitar Hero is innovative? It's every other Harmonix game but with a novelty controller bolted on.

  • Triggerhappytel #26 4 years ago

    I'm not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his whining is really getting on my nerves. He just sounds envious. Atari - as he built it - are long since dead & gone.

  • andromeda #27 4 years ago

    he likes all the rhythm action pish that i hate.
    I can safely assume we wouldn't be good golfing mates.

  • Vin #28 4 years ago

    Christ, I fucking loathe backward statements like that.

    Gaming is better now than it's ever been. Interface design is light years more intelligent, RPG battle systems are far more deep and involving, and gameplay mechanics are far more refined. The only real hurdle is the 3D camera, and every game seems to make more and more progress in the realm of camera heuristics.

  • MBar #29 4 years ago

    Step 1: Close mouth.

    Step 2: Screw off.

  • Garulon #30 4 years ago

    "he likes all the rhythm action pish that i hate. "

    I loikes Guitar Hero and Tetris. I also loikes HL2, GTA and Halo 3 because I'm not some bitter washed-up pointless old hippy who wrote two games, one crap complex one and one crap simple one that's known for purely nostalgia reasons.

  • jachap #31 4 years ago

    I don't think Tetris is that innovative, either. Drop rocks on other rocks, I bet they were doing that long before someone invented fire.

  • The_Inquisitor #32 4 years ago

    He sounds like a prick. Halo is just Doom in different clothing? So does that mean developers should leave the FPS genre for dead?

    And what does Pong teach you that GTA doesn't?

  • bushwod #33 4 years ago

    I think this guys just digging his own hole.

    'No Bushnell, dig up!'

  • smelly #34 4 years ago

    "And what does Pong teach you that GTA doesn't?"

    How to be innovative.. Because it was pretty much the first of it's kind.


    "Halo is just Doom in different clothing"

    Yes it is.. only a fool would argue differently


    "So does that mean developers should leave the FPS genre for dead? "

    Yes. If they're not doing anything new with them

    Seriously, whats the point in effectively playing the same game over and over? Do you not WANT innovation?

    I know i do. And by which i mean.. not the same game with a different story tacked on.
    Edited by 2 at 25/10/07 @ 21:12

  • Ryze #35 4 years ago

    Yeah right. Go ahead and play these games in this order and tell me there's no gameplay innovation:

    GTA: San Andreas

    GTA: Vice City (it feels totally broken on foot nowadays)

    Driver 2 (pushed the PS hardware, but it really is horrendous in '07)

    GTA (like micro machines super deluxe in multiplayer on the PC)

    The issue is that there's not even an attempt at making a family friendly alternative to GTA - and tons of kids have played it to death.

    This is something that should be addressed.

    However, I can't remember being educated by Robocop, Rambo, No Retreat No Surrender, Commando, The Terminator...

    I watched all of those films as a child - and shouldn't have, but they didn't HARM ME AT ALL YOU FUCKIN BASTARDS!!! I'LL HAVE ANY OF YA!!! WANT A GO?!?!?! COME ON THEN!!!!!! YA FUCKERS!!!!

  • smelly #36 4 years ago

    "The issue is that there's not even an attempt at making a family friendly alternative to GTA "


    Erm, im pretty sure the makers of "simpsons hit and run" will disagree with you there.

  • Ryze #37 4 years ago

    Yeah, I'm sure that uses the GTA engine.

    Rockstar must have been shitting themselves.

  • Ryze #38 4 years ago

    Exactly - no repetition at all in Atari 2600 games - noooo they were all completely different from one another, and wouldn't have dreamt of recycling any ideas to milk the public for ca$h.

    Nothing wrong with refining a genre to improve the gameplay, otherwise God Of War would be Golden Axe, or Double Dragon, or Kung Fu Master.

    The problem is when obvious flaws are not fixed in reasonable time, or when known and expected improvements are held back in order to draw out the annual milkage over the lifespan of the console.

    Pro Evo...?

  • NewYork #39 4 years ago

    "not only doesn't teach you anything, it teaches you the wrong things"

    /explodes

  • Kill_Crazy #40 4 years ago

    "...as much as I applaud the beautiful, fantastic production guys of Halo 3, it's really Doom 1 in different clothing."

    Isn't Doom just Wolfenstein 3D in different clothing?

    EDIT: Quote marks.
    Edited by 1 at 26/10/07 @ 07:17