Bach: 70-80% of pubs doing Natal games

By Robert Purchese Published 13 January, 2010

MS wants third-parties "making money".

Microsoft's Robbie Bach has revealed that "something like 70 or 80 per cent of the publishers in the world" are making games for Natal.

"Our model is certainly about third-party publishers making money," Bach told the Financial Post (via Joystiq) after dating Natal at CES 2010. "We design our system for third-party publishers.

"[Nintendo makes] most of their money through first-party games that Nintendo produces. That's absolutely their business model. And it's a great business model, it's just different, but it makes it hard for third-party publishers."

Microsoft's first-party developers will make a "few titles" to "show the way", added Bach, who hopes to kick-start the "breath and power of the ecosystem from our partners".

But Nintendo will not be Microsoft's only concern, as Sony's PS3 motion-sensing wand enters the market this spring as well.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (56) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • SYS64738 #1 2 years ago

    "Bach: 70-80% of pubs doing Natal games"

    Cheers! :)

  • seasidebaz #2 2 years ago

    So, that makes 6 out of the 8 global publishers producing NATAL games. I don't think Nintendo and Sony will be making any.

  • Eraysor #3 2 years ago

    "70-80% of pubs doing Natal games"

    Presumably my local will have a simulation of pelting chavs with beer bottles and fighting over the pool table?
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 09:34

  • Beano #4 2 years ago

    So is that "games made for Natal" or "games with Natal features tacked on" ?

  • Boomerang #5 2 years ago

    ...who hopes to kick-start the "breath and power of the ecosystem from our partners".

    Jesus. What a load of PR bollocks.

  • superted1974 #6 2 years ago

    Possibly discussed on another thread but I don't understand why there is no decent third party games on Wii.

    Is it just that Nintendo are better and therefore make third party stuff look poor by comparison? If so not realy Nintendo's fault.
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 09:46

  • FogHeart #7 2 years ago

    Certainly a games console exposed to the public would benefit from not having a peripheral to break or get lost or stolen. I'd worry that someone could simply walk next to you to ruin the game for you, while if you hold the peripheral you and no one else controls the game. We'll see if that becomes a problem.

    On a side note, the emphasis on pub games, and the lag factor preventing 'twitch gaming' continue to show a leaning of Natal towards more casual gaming.

  • penhalion #8 2 years ago

    O_o Glad it's not just me that thought they actually meant Witherspoons or the dog and duck were doing games! It's all those bloody Wii pub night adverts that have done it. Now I can actually see Natal in a pub corner instead of quiz night!

  • Negotiator #9 2 years ago

    Natal is the future of gaming, you can quote me on that.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #10 2 years ago

    I'm really positive on Natal, but if they started putting them in pubs, I doubt you'd see many Middlesbrough regulars waving their arms in the air like they just don't care. They'd get a bottle of WKD up the chuff for their troubles.

  • altitude2k #11 2 years ago

    Sounds like shovelware city to me. But I'm a strong advocate of Natal's potential as a hardcore game controller, so I expect some gems in there too.

  • kangarootoo #12 2 years ago

    @Negotiator

    You are a cock. And you can quote me on that.

  • Kerome #13 2 years ago

    @superted1974: its probably because (and in the friendliest possible way) most Wii games developers a) don't know the target market well enough to design for it, b) are under-funded and rushed shovelware merchants, c) publish under a brand which is not casual and family-friendly, d) are making some basic gaming errors, or e) all of the above.

    I actually think Natal is going to do really well - it's a good concept with a lot of instant appeal, Microsoft seems to be putting money and marketing muscle behind it, and it's genuinely a bit different. As to whether it's going to appear in pubs, if the Wii can do it I wouldn't rule it out!
    Edited by 2 at 13/01/10 @ 10:21

  • JahB #14 2 years ago

    just goes to show that they learned from nintendo's mistakes. it's the lack of quality 3rd party support that hurts the Wii the most imo.

    so i'm somehow glad MS are trying to sort this from the start, but i'm not sure screaming "70-80% of all pubs are riding our new cashcow!!!" is the best way forward...

  • muscleblade #15 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    I dont think that was called for. You can (should) be banned for calling someone that.

  • Hix15 #16 2 years ago

    looks like 70-80% of people haven't read the article

  • Rich72 #17 2 years ago

    My friend told me about you Anthony_Daniels, i completely see what he was talking about now.

  • kangarootoo #18 2 years ago

    @muscleblade

    Nonsense. Negotiator is a shill.

    A quick nosey around the site today will find the exact same comment duplicated on any thread related to Natal. He rarely comments on anything else, and every Natal related post reads like a press release.

    That sort of thing is no different to email spam as far as I am concerned. Discussion threads are for exchange of opinions, not paid advertising.
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 10:33

  • schnide #19 2 years ago

    MS talking about motion sensing and didn't mention Sony as if to remove them from the consumer's mind completely? Well I didn't see through that obvious PR bullshit story!

  • muscleblade #20 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Yeah i saw that. He should be banned then so you dont need to call him different things. ;-)

  • sesskie #21 2 years ago

    Cant say im on the Natal bandwagon. I prefer not to wave my harnds around to play a game. I guess the same goes for the Sony Motion controller.

  • Shinetop #22 2 years ago

    I'd worry that someone could simply walk next to you to ruin the game for you, while if you hold the peripheral you and no one else controls the game. We'll see if that becomes a problem.

    They've stated on numerous occasions that it can tell who you are and who is just walking in next to you. So no need to see if that becomes a problem.

    On a side note, the emphasis on pub games

    What is the emphasis on pub games, exactly?

  • tancredo #23 2 years ago

    A lot of publishers are slowly backtracking from their entusiastic involvement with the Wii because they are not having any big return on their investment. Wii games are dominated by Nintendo in-house developers.

    Currently, the 360 can be considered the 3rd party gold mine (out of the 3 consoles). MS is just trying to show the 3rd parties they will be backing up their efforts in Natal, that publishers can find a similar level of success in this new venture.

  • mingster #24 2 years ago

    I could actually see Natal games being popular in pubs here in Blighty.
    Especially as the 360 is the chavs choice of console.

  • Murton #25 2 years ago

    I see I'm not the only one who read the headline on the front page thinking that 80% of local boozers were gonna buy Natal to see the regulars flait their arms around in a special sort of way?

    It's good that the 3rd party are getting behind Natal but the acid test will be how many stick with it and continue to make games after their first. I found the comparison between Nintendo and MS interesting, Nintendo go all out on first party while MS concentrate on third, Sony meanwhile has a nice mix of both.

    For those asking the reason there's not a lot of 3rd party stuff on the Wii well one reason is that Nintendo's submission criteria is insane, they've been known to refuse to allow a game onto the market for the most minor of issues, it has to be absolutely perfect. This puts a lot of devs off as it makes it very difficult for them to compete with Nintendo's first party line up who don't suffer the same scrutiny.
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 11:13

  • fizzyfish #26 2 years ago

    I misunderstood the headline too :) Actually, Natal games would be good for playing in pubs (or anywhere else in public where they might be available to play for free), as the console and camera could be in a sealed unit, left unattended, and no-one has anything in their hands they could trash/steal. And you wouldn't have to worry if the person playing before you had washed their hands on their last bog visit, either :|

  • Vanmunt #27 2 years ago

    Negotiator likes to touch mens bottoms... you can quote me on that as well.

  • GreyBeard #28 2 years ago

    Its good that MS have drummed up so much interest for Natal, but I must admit to being a bit concerned about what's being sacrificed in terms of development bandwidth to drive it.

    I'm assuming that a good proportion of the Natal projects in development are smallish titles for XBL only, not boxed product, but still given that you can't get direct equivalent functionality on any other system its a lot of time/money being spent on presumably exclusive content for an unproven peripheral.

  • ignatiusjreilly #29 2 years ago

    For those asking the reason there's not a lot of 3rd party stuff on the Wii well one reason is that Nintendo's submission criteria is insane, they've been known to refuse to allow a game onto the market for the most minor of issues, it has to be absolutely perfect.

    You've got to be kidding! There's tons of third-party stuff on Wii, but a lot of it wouldn't even make it to the local games shop as it is so bad. When the the type of publisher that leaves iStockphoto watermarks on its game cover is approved, I don't think you can really talk about the Nintendo seal of quality anymore.

    edit: evidence of Nintendo's demands of everything being absolutely perfect: http://www .n4g.com/gaming/News-454559.aspx
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 11:36

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #30 2 years ago

    I hope the camera comes with either a couple of XBLA-sized free games, or one retail-sized free game. It'll need to, really, won't it? To sell the product Wii Sports-style. Surely Rare must be working on some Avatar-starring mini-game collection as we speak.

  • onyxbox #31 2 years ago

    Virtual Darts!

    The health and saftey people will love this.

  • NorUraeus #32 2 years ago

    @Murton: So your argument is that there are few good 3rd party games on the Wii because Nintendos standards are so high. And that 3rd parties feel its hard to compete with Nintendo because Nintendos own games are allowed to have a lower standard.

    For some reason the logic of that fails to resonate with me, wonder why..... in fact to me that would sound like a strategy for having few but really great 3rd party games, and the whole argument here was started on the opposite impression, that Wii games tend to be shitty shovelware.

    As for the original article boast about 70%-80% of publishers doing Natal games, well an even higher percentage does 'sixaxis' games, and we all know what a huge impact that has. Lets see what these games actually look like and how they use Natal, being able to flail your arms for an uneeded effect at four points in a game isn't going to change the industry.

  • miiiguel #33 2 years ago

    they've been known to refuse to allow a game onto the market for the most minor of issues, it has to be absolutely perfect.

    Really?! 3rd party games on Wii are "absolutely perfect" ?!
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 12:06

  • Hindle #34 2 years ago

    I still dont see how Microsoft will market Natal, i mean people will look at Sonys Wii remote and say that looks like the Wii remote etc. But how do you advertise Natal seems too complex

  • kangarootoo #35 2 years ago

    @Murton

    "For those asking the reason there's not a lot of 3rd party stuff on the Wii well one reason is that Nintendo's submission criteria is insane, they've been known to refuse to allow a game onto the market for the most minor of issues, it has to be absolutely perfect."

    Ummm, so how would you account for the numerous 3rd party titles that are bloody awful?

    The excuses aren't as complex as you seem to suggest. Many of the 3rd party titles on the Wii are bobbins quite simply because many devs find making good games hard enough as it is - to make a good game on a system that has a unique and previously unencountered control system is simply beyond their abilities.

    So they end up trying to hammer their familiar square peg into the resolutely round hole. And thus the quality of the end result is poor. Its no more complex than that.

  • kangarootoo #36 2 years ago

    @Hindle

    I think Natal is as easy to market as anything else. The movies we have seen so far with families wafting their hands about have done a perfect job of explaining the concept imo. I can't imagine many people viewed those movies and didn't understand what they were being shown.

  • Murton #37 2 years ago

    Perfect in terms that they don't crash, don't drop frames left and right etc. Quality, not content. One issue with build quality of the software and Nintendo are likely to fail it and your game doesn't get released. Submission panels could care less whether the game is good or not, they're just there to see if it works properly.

    It's one of the reasons why there's so many overly simple "shovelware" minigames on the console. They're easy to make and QA test, as well as playing to the strengths of the wiimote controller.

    As an aside, Nintendo do offer great marketing support to 3rd party titles. Remember the adverts for Ashes Cricket? that was Nintendo's marketing department that made it happen, Ashes Cricket on the other hand had a long going nightmare with submissions to Nintendo prior to release. The content was fine, but when it comes to bugs Nintendo are by and large a lot more picky than MS and Sony have ever been.
    Edited by 1 at 13/01/10 @ 12:29

  • kangarootoo #38 2 years ago

    @Murton

    I'm not convinced Nintendo's format QA is any more stringent than anyone elses in that respect. Sony and MS are still pretty tough on crash bugs and the like. As for dropped frames, I'm not sure any platform holder cares so much about the odd performance dip so long as it isn't prolific.

    As for the issue of the amount of simple mini-games on the system. There are plenty of relatively high budget games on the Wii that are poor because they are quite simply not very well designed. The slew of fps ports is but one example. There is nothing wrong with the code behind MoH on the Wii, and its problems didn't originate from Ninty's format QA process. The controls are simply rubbish and THAT is why the game is poor.

    On the whole I would agree in part when you say mini-games play "to the strengths of the wiimote controller", but that is not because they inherrently suit the Wiimote. I think that devs just find it easier to develop decent Wii mini-games from scratch as opposed to porting established genre titles such as fps games.

    There is no "this game type suits this kind of controller better" gene built into gaming DNA. Game genres themselves are really just a figment of our imagination - a cataloguing system if you like. It all really just comes down to a developer making a good game, which includes in turn making a good control system that suits the hardware that is available. Devs have had years to get better at making games for control pads, so many struggle to adapt to the Wiimote. That is all it is about really.

  • drxym #39 2 years ago

    If 70-80% of publishers are making games I guess we can surmise that the vast majority of them will be lucky if they ever break even.

  • FWB #40 2 years ago

    Thought that meant public house too.

  • Negotiator #41 2 years ago

    Tell me Kangaroo, why is it because I make a positive comment on a future gaming product, you get your knickers in a twist. I think its because your such a negative little shit, you hate to see someone who is excited about a step forward in interactive entertainment.

  • kangarootoo #42 2 years ago

    @Negotiator

    "you hate to see someone who is excited about a step forward in interactive entertainment."

    I don't buy it. You talk like a paid up employee of a viral marketing team. There is even a stark difference between the grammar and structure of your genuine posts and your pr waffle. If you expressed an opinion that actually SOUNDED like an opinion my reaction would be different. As it is, your Natal posts equate to spam, of which I take a dim view.

  • Negotiator #43 2 years ago

    "I don't buy it. You talk like a paid up employee of a viral marketing team. There is even a stark difference between the grammar and structure of your genuine posts and your pr waffle. If you expressed an opinion that actually SOUNDED like an opinion my reaction would be different. As it is, your Natal posts equate to spam, of which I take a dim view."

    Well sorry Sir for upsetting you, I'll try to be extra careful next time.

  • kangarootoo #44 2 years ago

    Thats the spirit ;)

  • Negotiator #45 2 years ago

    With this kind of 3rd party support, and Microsoft leading the way, Natal will be at the centre of the household entertainment experience. This is a new day, a new dawn, a new life for us and I'm feeling good.

  • Negotiator #46 2 years ago

    That ones for you Kangaroo, good day Sir.

  • RexRunti #47 2 years ago

    Jesus, Negotiator, I happen to think Natal looks very interesting and could open a bunch of new gaming doors but I have to agree with Kanga on this one. If you are not some MS shill you need to find something that isn't an as yet unreleased piece of hardware to fall in love with, and if you are an MS shill you should realise that your attitude is making me wonder if I should be pro Natal if someone like you is. Who else here remembers All I Want for Christmas is a PSP?

  • chukcyQ #48 2 years ago

    I'll use Natal to take 3D pictures of my ass and then upload them to Live!

  • Negotiator #49 2 years ago

    "Jesus, Negotiator, I happen to think Natal looks very interesting and could open a bunch of new gaming doors but I have to agree with Kanga on this one. If you are not some MS shill you need to find something that isn't an as yet unreleased piece of hardware to fall in love with, and if you are an MS shill you should realise that your attitude is making me wonder if I should be pro Natal if someone like you is. Who else here remembers All I Want for Christmas is a PSP?"

    Sarcasm, look it up, but Natal is the future of gaming.

  • Dillinger #50 2 years ago

    just because its fun, past negotiator gems:

    >>Natal is the future of gaming, you can quote me on that.

    >>Natal the future of gaming, and you can quote me on that. (2 threads)

    >>I told everyone Natal is the future of gaming, and I was right. Time mag for gods sake, MS have done it again.

    >>Natal is the future of gaming, and with this price point it will fly off the shelves. I like the way they are taking their time with this, so they can launch with amazing game's, like Petes genre busting Milo and Kate.

    >>Sounds like Cage wants Natal instead of that Wii mote rip off Sony have made.

    >>Another fail for Sony, oh dear, nevermind. Milo is on his way, with Pete driving.

    >>No Pete we did not, the great man working his magic with the innovative Natal, what more could you want? nothing thats what. This time next year we will be gearing up for the biggest XBOX 360 year yet, and with Pete leading the way you can bet your sweet ass Natal will redefine gaming.


    If thats not a shill I dont know what is.
    sounds like hes been supping at "Pete"s (aww how sweet) altar a bit too frequently. And yes that is a euphemism.

  • kangarootoo #51 2 years ago

    "Sarcasm, look it up"

    Yeah, thats right, its sarcasm. Not madness. Not obsession. Not a pay check. But sarcasm.

    /strokes chin

  • Wolverfrog #52 2 years ago

    *Prays Natal won't be in Halo: Reach*

  • ignatiusjreilly #53 2 years ago

    Negotiator is just a troll, clearly. Can you imagine Microsoft actually paying him money for those posts?

  • Negotiator #54 2 years ago

    Dillinger, a fan I see, can't say I blame you. As for being a shill, I wish I was, but all I am is an excited consumer ready for the next revolution in gaming. Also how in sam's hill am I a troll, when all I do is post positive comments about a product, moron.

  • seasidebaz #55 2 years ago

    NATAL isn't the next big revolution. Motion control's been done already. 3D is the next big revolution.

  • kangarootoo #56 2 years ago

    "an excited consumer ready for the next revolution in gaming"

    This is starting to remind me of the stepford wives.