Limbo dev: the retail model is "broken"

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 1 November, 2011

"Why should I get a console if games need to be installed?"

The retail video game model "has always been and still is broken".

That's according to Dino Patti, boss of Limbo developer Playdead games.

Limbo, a digitally distributed game that launched last year on Xbox Live Arcade, wowed critics and proved an immense commercial success. It was later released on PC and PlayStation 3.

Patti is yet to reveal Playdead's next game, but told Eurogamer it will almost certainly be downloadable - something he's perfectly happy with because, in his view, discs are outdated.

"The retail model has always been and still is broken, from a developer's point of view," Patti told Eurogamer at the GameCity6 festival.

"Driving discs in a big van all over the world is really inefficient. I don't understand how anyone can make money out of this. Driving a truck to Japan just to get it delivered to people when they can get it from the net? Hopefully the new consoles will embrace the download space even more."

While Microsoft has remained quiet on its next Xbox plans, Sony has indicated its next PlayStation will not be digital-only.

"We do business in parts of the world where network infrastructure isn't as robust as one would hope," former Sony Computer Entertainment boss Kaz Hirai said in August last year.

"There's always going to be requirement for a business of our size and scope to have a physical medium. To think everything will be downloaded in two years, three years or even ten years from now is taking it a little bit to the extreme."

Patti agreed with Hirai, but insisted the world was turning towards digital.

"There will be discs for a long time from now, but the world has adopted download. When your mum and dad start to download things, that's when it's everybody who does it. So many publishers are pushing [discs] and there are so many channels which just won't die easily. In terms of money it's still bigger than download. There are still a lot of people who buy their games that way. It still makes a better presence."

Patti also singled out the need to install modern console games as an annoyance - echoing similar complaints made by Twisted Metal maker David Jaffe.

"I hate to have the disc myself," Patti said. "I only buy the disc if I want a console game, but everything else I download from Steam. And all the new games today also need to be installed. Why did I get a console if the games need to be installed? That really sucks. That's a PC.

"It should be more like plug and play. The first consoles were cartridges. When it takes one hour to install Gran Turismo 5? I don't know. Obviously it improves performance, but they should be able to build consoles with better performance from the disc drive."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (88) Latest comment 7 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • onyxbox #1 7 months ago

    people like to go to the shops on a Saturday for something to do (I don't personally but I can see that for a lot of people that's what they like to do)

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #2 7 months ago

    You could argue that the digital model is also broken, without the cost of driving these games all the way from japan and america by truck to my house, not to mention manufacturing and printing costs, why are so many games more expensive to download?

  • DAN.E.B #3 7 months ago

    "Why should I get a console if games need to be installed?"

    erm......because I aint got two grand to spend on a PC?

  • Der_tolle_Emil #4 7 months ago

    There should be better methods to install a game, it would be best if it was transparent - load the data from the disc and save it to the harddrive at the same time so there is no need to access the disc a second time.

    Other than that I am really glad that I now have the possibility to install 360 games to the hard drive, if only to keep the noise down. After all it's still optional on the 360, but I do agree about the inefficiency the disc-based retail model brings. Nevertheless I don't see it going away anytime soon, certainly not in the next 10 years.

  • Goodfella #5 7 months ago

    @GamesProgrammer

    Indeed, I find it quite ridiculous that digital downloads are more expensive, it hardly encourages going this route. I like using Steam but once again a big title I want (Skyrim) is £35, it's only £30 on ShopTo.

    Further more, if you're buying on consoles you have resale/trade in value, if it's digital only you won't get that any more.

  • Buztafen #6 7 months ago

    @DAN.E.B There's so much wrong with your post that i dont know whether to laugh or cry...

  • Lukree #7 7 months ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil

    Didn't the first Xbox function a bit like that? The game you just played previously was loaded from hard drive cache. But X360 changed this - and to be honest I was a bit disappointed when I realized that.

  • consoledelight #8 7 months ago

    Not everyone has the download speed for a start, or the storage capacity, and you can guarantee that the bigger HDs get, the bigger the games will get.

    Plus, i enjoyed queueing at midnight for gta4 with a couple of hundred people, it makes you feel like you are part of a larger community. You wont get that with a download queue.

  • McGooch #9 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:51:44 12-12-2011

  • McGooch #10 7 months ago

    @lollage

    Battlefield 3's texture pack install for xbox360 says "hi!"

  • Machetazo #11 7 months ago

    ""You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck...I have no time for such nonsense." -- Napoleon, commenting on Fulton's Steamship "

    "I hate to have the disc myself," I don't hate the thing of having the disc, but I despise the part where if I want to play the game, it'll demand I go and try to find it again. That's the bit that puts me off, the DRM.
    The DRM is the worst of this generation, that sours the supposed-to-be leisurely experience of gaming, for everyone, but the pirates.
    Edited by Machetazo at 01/11/11 @ 11:25

  • Der_tolle_Emil #12 7 months ago

    The 360 also caches quite a bit of data on the hard drive, but this is up to the developers. They cache assets that have been loaded from the disc but the point is that this is a feature the game has programmed in, not something the OS/console is doing for them. I'm not sure how much space there is available to cache data, for example on the 20 gig hard drive about 7gb where available to cache data but I don't know if a single game was able to use up all the space for itself or if MS has limits on how much data can be cached.

    Anyway, that is at least for me besides the point. When it comes to the problems both the retail and download market are suffering from these days having to install a game can hardly be the deciding factor. There are way too many other things that are wrong with both models.

  • Xardan #13 7 months ago

    I dread the day when everything is digital only.

    I like my physical media, it makes me feel like i actually own it.

  • gandhimaster #14 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:51:44 12-12-2011

  • ukslim #15 7 months ago

    The choice of words really confused me for a second. "Digital" meaning "not on disks"? What do you think the first D of DVD stands for?

    "Sony has indicated its next PlayStation will not be digital-only" - it's going to play cassettes and vinyl?

  • McGooch #16 7 months ago

    @lollage

    actually every downloadable xbox360 game or game update needs to be installed to the HDD in order to run. There are many PS3 games that do not require an install to play - Uncharted 2 is one example.

    personally, I usually install my games to my xbox HDD in order to reduce the horrible jet engine noise the console makes when I run games from the disc. I never have this problem when using my PS3.

    "The PS3 is the only console where games "need" to be installed, as mentioned by the Limbo dev."

    he didn't say this anywhere in the above article and even if he did he'd be wrong.
    Edited by McGooch at 01/11/11 @ 11:44

  • cw- #17 7 months ago

    @lollage er... XBLA games, and DLC, and updates, also the Wii equivalents have to be installed.

    Remove the "even downloadable PSN..." bit from your comment ;)

  • Flipper79 #18 7 months ago

    It's already been said, but digital distribution is a far more 'broken' model than physical distribution. It's not just issues with digital costing more, lack of ownership, but also how the hardware platforms themselves limit what publishers of digital material can do - refusing competition, limiting patches, limiting size of software etc, as well as creating confusion over where the consumer should seek redress should something go wrong.

  • kosigan #19 7 months ago

    Last paragraph of article: "It should be more like plug and play. The first consoles were cartridges. When it takes one hour to install Gran Turismo 5? I don't know. Obviously it improves performance, but they should be able to build consoles with better performance from the disc drive."

    GT5 is a very bad example, as they coded it with over 14,000 small files, rather than fewer, larger ones. Criterion have it down with Burnout Paradise and NFS Hot Pursuit: neither game needs (nor, indeed, provides for) install to the hard drive - they both run direct from the Blu-Ray. So it's not a matter of what the technology can do, but more a matter of what the developers can be bothered to do.
    Edited by kosigan at 01/11/11 @ 11:47

  • onyxbox #20 7 months ago

    if it helps the game run better then I don't mind installing. I install every game on 360... keeps the noise down, less wear on the optics and improves load times / texture streaming. Same goes for PS3, having a mandatory installation just means it runs better than it would have done without and as HDD is standard on all models devs may as well take advantage of it.

  • Phattso #21 7 months ago

    I love the notion here that the truck drives all the way to Japan and back to deliver it to my local Game store. Because, of course, localised production of discs is a physical impossibility. :)

  • Toothball #22 7 months ago

    He seems to have a pretty good handle on this. Retail isn't going to disappear overnight, so all those people who like owning things, lining them up on their shelves or going to shops to buy things need not panic.

    Digital distribution does have its problems, but they are not insurmountable problems. Drive space, bandwidth, network coverage and costs are all things that have room for improvement, and have indeed been improving over recent years. That's how things generally get better in general after all.

  • repeater #23 7 months ago

    "I only buy the disc if I want a console game, but everything else I download from Steam. And all the new games today also need to be installed. Why did I get a console if the games need to be installed? That really sucks. That's a PC."

    Umm.. doesn't this complaint sort of undermine his argument for digital distribution as well?
    Edited by repeater at 01/11/11 @ 11:56

  • Cappy #24 7 months ago

    Your games being tied to a hard disc on a closed system is 'broken', I'll stick with physical copies and avoiding games that require me to download a portion of their content thanks.

    Absolutely nothing was recoverable from my YLOD of PS3 for instance, the hard drive is encrypted to be readable in no device other than the PS3 it came from.

    Digital distribution is simply not a robust enough solution in the long term on a closed console platform, if the successor to the PS3 opts for an alternate 'developer friendly' architecture you can kiss all that content you bought goodbye, it's a dead loss that's highly unlikely to work on the PS4, can't be sold and Sony definitely aren't going to keep it online forever or allow you to download the data to a PC for use via an emulator one day.

    Digital distribution turns console games into ephemera, consume and throwaway. Never look back.

  • McGooch #25 7 months ago

    @lollage

    so you can play XBLA games without the need for an install can you? that's a first. where are these games stored when you're not playing them?

    "There are no games on other platforms that do. This is uniquely a PS3 problem."

    PC is another platform that requires a game be installed before you can play.

  • jrb #26 7 months ago

    ""Why should I get a console if games need to be installed?""

    i think this just demonstrates how little he actually understands the market, and how unqualified he is to be making sweeping statements about content distribution.

    Physical disc distribution works, especially where high speed un-metered broadband is prevalent, but for some customers they prefer browsing the whole going to the bricks and mortar retailers. Choice is a good thing, and the competition it brings helps keep prices low.

    I suspect he thinks the model is broken purely because he gets a smaller cut of the profits, which probably just means, as others have pointed out here, that there is little parity of pricing structures between download and physical purchases.

  • ukslim #27 7 months ago

    @McGooch @lollage You're arguing over the definition of "install". McGooch thinks the XBLA download constitutes in "install"; Lollage thinks an "install" is a more involved process involving unpacking etc -- something that involves watching a progress bar, while the system is doing something more than merely copy bits from the network to local storage.

  • cfir #28 7 months ago

    @lollage XBLA games download and install as a single operation. On PS3 they are simply 2 distinct operations. Please know what your talking about before posting.

  • TheDarkFurie #29 7 months ago

    No downloadable games on the 360 require an install. None. Once the download is complete, you can immediately play the game/demo.

    Just so you know for the future, even if the installation operation is hidden by the console or part of the download, the fact is that the games are still installed on the hard disc. Installation is the operation of putting them on the hard drive in a runnable state, which is part of the download for Xbox 360 games, and isn't only the operation that takes place when you choose to install from a disc or run through an installation wizard on a PC.

  • bf #30 7 months ago

    I know what their next game could be about, flogging dead arguments...

  • AaronTurner #31 7 months ago

    Why on earth would you complain about installing a game?

  • Goodfella #32 7 months ago

    @AaronTurner

    It's the ADD generation.

  • kangarootoo #33 7 months ago

    @Lukree

    The XBox only cached certain bits of data, and it was down to the developer to choose which bits. It wasn't a full install by any means.

  • ukslim #34 7 months ago

    @AaronTurner Couple of potential reasons you'd not want to install games:

    1. You're used to being in the action within 30 seconds of putting the disk in (or 5 seconds, with a cartridge)

    2. Your drive doesn't have the capacity for as many games as you want (my old 20GB Xbox had room for one installed disk game, and I had to make decisions about which XBLA games to keep)

    I don't have a PS3, but it sounds very irritating indeed, that you'd put a new retail disk in, then have to wait 10 minutes or more before you could play.

  • bad09 #35 7 months ago

    Developer who delivers games only digitally claims retail model is broken surprise surprise.

    I would argue the current digital model is far more broken, this guy is bigging up Steam (the biggest download service supposedly claiming 75% of the download market) but Steam is basically a subscription, they are not your games you don't "buy" them you subcribe to access them. No doubt someone will now jump in to say "oh but Valve said they'd free games of Steam if they went under" but their T&Cs tell a different story.


    Until download sites sell to you like GOG or many indies (as in you buy the game, download it, it is yours end of story) I'll never go download only, mind you seeing as this shit industry can't even do that simple thing with discs anymore thanks to their anti-consumer DRMS I doubt I'll ever see that happen anyway.
    Edited by bad09 at 01/11/11 @ 12:48

  • Nithron #36 7 months ago

    A download only future looks inevitable, and i'd welcome it - but only if the damn prices go down. Why are they so high at the moment? The prices on MS's Games on Demand service are laughable - and even Steam's prices are usually higher than retail on release.

  • MisterCraig #37 7 months ago

    Must just be me who rubs the game case all over my face and sniffs the manual on every page.

  • Goodfella #38 7 months ago

    @lollage

    I'm not denying the PS3 has forced installs, just saying if you can't wait 30 minutes (which is very rarely the case it takes that long) to install and play a game you must be extremely impatient or perhaps have ADD.

  • ukslim #39 7 months ago

    @Goodfella And while we're at it, why do people whine so much about loading screens? If you can't watch a progress bar for 20 seconds every time you walk through an in-game door, your mind must have a psychological defect.

  • Widge #40 7 months ago

    You don't have to install on the 360 but it's the old circular argument. Machine too noisy? Who doesn't install their games now! Forced install? Who needs installs! A wonderful argument winner all around. The argument users are those arguing about installs really. My iPhone pops up an installing message as part of game downloading processes, watch how much I don't care about that.

  • Haq-1 #41 7 months ago

    @lollage

    djclownshoes?

  • Arwin #42 7 months ago

    Downloading and installing Limbu sure, but when games start crossing the 4GB border I personally like having them on disc. When some games are 20-40GB, I'm really thankful for a disc and that I don't have to download and install all of that. It is literally faster for me to cycle to the store, buy the game and play it than download it, and I actually have good download speeds.

    Not having to put a disc in is nice though, but for now it's not worth sacrificing 'quality assets' ... I'm glad developers can choose, so we have the full range of titles available. Eventually I can imagine fiber connections to the cloud so fast that you can stream the game from the servers live, no on-live video streaming system necessary, just use the Cloud as a virtual, very fast HDD, or use the combination and cache stuff to HDD to save some bandwidth (as long as that is still an issue, but that will probably go away, especially as these things could be mirrored locally by providers). Heck, at 5MB/s (40Mb/s) download speed, my internet connection is already pretty close to being able to, say, play back a BluRay remotely, and the next upgrade in dataplan, 120Mb/s or 12MB/s is already a match for the PS3's BluRay drive in that respect, possibly with faster seek times :p.

  • kestral #43 7 months ago

    The problem with downloadables is price inflexibility, but I guess in the absence of an alternative download source that issue won't matter much longer. Once everyone pays the same price it stops to matter.

  • ukslim #44 7 months ago

    @Arwin when you've got a network connection that good, OnLive becomes tempting. Accuse me of ADD all you like, but playing a big game within seconds of having the whim to do so, is attractive.

  • RevanNL #45 7 months ago

    Here's the thing: the casual consumer, who only buys FIFA and COD for their 360/PS3 along with perhaps a few other games, may not be into the whole download thing. Also, in Europe only people in the UK and the Netherlands have widespread acces to very fast internet. So it's simple, if MS and Sony want to have a large installed base then they have to sell games via retail for years to come

  • Radish #46 7 months ago

    Can we stop all the "uhh... I ain't got no 2k to spend on a PC!" crap? I can just imagine you drooling and bashing your keyboard like some neanderthal while you type it. PCs do not cost 2k, stop being stupid.

  • oupe #47 7 months ago

    @RevanNL
    Yes, apart from the fact that, while I can download stuff with 5MB/s on my pc, when my ps3 or 360 starts downloading I can go for a walk to the city, drink a few beers, walk back home and watch the remaining 25% of the download.

  • -cerberus- #48 7 months ago

    Hard copy or no sale.

  • Goodfella #49 7 months ago

    @lollage

    Of course I'd prefer not to have installs but they really don't bother me, I concentrate my worries on things more important.

    I'm not defending the PS3, it has it's faults as does the 360, clearly you're very passionate about the 360 though, next you'll be listing 360 face off wins.

  • nitx Verified Online Engineer, GameLoft #50 7 months ago

    I loved Limbo but indie devs these days need to stop acting like their shit dont stink. Just stfu and make games ..

  • Goodfella #51 7 months ago

    @lollage

    "Some of you people really are very childish when it comes to defending a brand instead of looking at facts."

    Really, you're the one calling others 'tools'.

    You seem to have quite the problem getting worked up about this subject.

  • UkHardcore23 #52 7 months ago

    "When it takes one hour to install Gran Turismo 5?"

    For people just buying Gt5 now it probably takes 3 hours to install and download gb's worth of patches before getting to play the game lol

  • sonicyoda #53 7 months ago

    "The first consoles were cartridges. When it takes one hour to install Gran Turismo 5? I don't know. Obviously it improves performance, but they should be able to build consoles with better performance from the disc drive."

    This is a bloody good point and something I would like to see more of from the next generation. Agreeably, the PS3 is really the only sufferer here, but quicker loading in general should be a major focus in the next gen.

  • weebl #54 7 months ago

    I can't afford to download a 40GB game, you morons.

    Not only that, but having a physical medium is a lot different in terms of ownership of the product than a download. With a download you basically only have a lease of that data and it can be withdrawn at any point. People won't wake up to this until their whole music, film and game collection are all on the cloud and they effectively don't own anything.

  • Dave52 #55 7 months ago

    With the exception of the the odd rediculous one (GT5 is mentioned as the obvious one), I've never had a problem with the PS3 install thing. Hard Drive space isn't a problem and it's in the mindset now. I expect at least a little install action when I buy a PS3 game - no problem.

    Anyway, for someone who's advocating a download only model, I can't quite see the point of bleating about install times...

  • IronGiant #56 7 months ago

    Are the kids still off school? Lollage is making a complete idiot of himself yet he's blaming everyone else, sad little moron.

    Personally I will always prefer physical media for games and movies, not so much for music. Considering this digital only revolution is around the corner I read today that Blu Ray disc sales are seeing big increases.

  • McGooch #57 7 months ago

    @lollage

    "that same person then made a post addressed to me claiming that XBLA games have installs, when they don't."

    yes they do. XBLA games download and install during the same operation. the license required to play each downloaded/installed game is also stored on the console.

  • Snake_2011 #58 7 months ago

    so broke it makes millions every week without disc we would get robbed on price.

  • Seoh #59 7 months ago

    What we need is a system where the benefits of digital and retail are combined. What if the new consoles were digital only and got rid of discs, instead the games would come on pendrives or something similar.

    ie i go to a store like Game and i take a 32gb pendrive, perhaps it came with my xbox 720 and is exclusive to that, I see Halo 6 is on offer and i want to buy it. I go to the counter and offer the clerk some money they intern hand over a small device like a chip and pin reader into that i insert a numerical code associated with my account. At that point Halo 6 is registered to my xbox and i could go home and download it direct from microsoft despite buying it from Game. However if i don't want to download it i hand over my pendrive and they transfer the game assets onto it, perhaps i go for a coffee and pick it up later depending on the speed of this. Once this is complete i go home and put the pendrive into my shiny xbox 720 and then i can play the game from the pendrive or transfer over to the built in 2Tb hard drive.

    Problem solved, no more DVD's or blue rays for the games, completely digital distribution with no download issue for people with limited broadband, stores like Game and HMV love it because they are still needed and used (hell they even need less stock space) and i microsoft can still sell me the game via download directly to my console if they choose to.

  • Arwin #60 7 months ago

    @ukslim I like that for trying out a demo for a game, but ultimately I have doubts that this system is really efficient and the quality is currently not yet good enough for me, from lag to sound to graphics. I can't imagine playing, say, Uncharted 3 or God of War or Infamous 2, or Rage even, or whatever this way just yet (not that the exclusives will be on there anytime soon anyway). But a game demo, sure, that's way better than downloading and installing the whole thing first, even if Steam makes that much less of a hassle than it used to be.

  • Crazy_Colt #61 7 months ago

    Installing on consoles is very important for improving it's performance.
    .
    The days of plug cartridge and play are gone.
    The information on the disc is so dense, it's a drag to read it all on the fly.

    Games now need more and more data to be pretty and up to date.
    .
    I like DL games, but i always wonder what if i need the space or HDD brakes, what then? i lose all?

    There is a certain security about having a disc. Although i can see the advantage for small developers to bypass the whole production and shipping system by DLC thus having more money to develop and have a fighting chance.
    .

  • Jorendo #62 7 months ago

    I as PC gamer find it very funny. 2 years ago many console gamers shouted that the pc sucks cause you have to install games on it and have to patch them (appearantly for console gamers it was a bad thing you got bug fixes). Now 2011 if you want to play a console game stable you need to install it or you get anoying hickups and the consoles aswell have frequent patches. And you just wait as long as a pc game to be installed or even slower. And lets not start about the terrible speed PS3 install its patches with. I had to update my Metal Gear 4 to play online...i have a high speed connection and it took me 6 freaking hours, not even WoW takes that long to update if you install the game with the vanilla disks and thats 7 years of patches.

    The new consoles would do well to support more downloads. Make services like steam on the xbox and ps...put the latest games on it for sale aswell instead of only putting older games on it. You want to play BF3? Just download it from the PS store/xbox live and play, like pc gamers can aswell. Keep the disc support though i use my PS3 mostly as blu-ray player, saves me buying yet another device!

  • Uncompetative #63 7 months ago

    It is stupid that I have to wait months to be allowed to download games from the Marketplace. They can be full price even though I won't be able to trade them in. This doesn't matter to me as I keep all mine for reasons of nostalgia. Yet, I'm running out of room for my collection. I will need the next Xbox 1080 to be a Multimedia Jukebox with 1 TB HDD and full backwards compatibility.

    Microsoft could even go as far as to eliminate the DVD drive, if they let people post old 360 games back to them in exchange for digital versions being added to their download queue. It would be so easy for them to reward customer loyalty; and who needs Blu-ray when you have Netflix's variety?

    Just take a look at games on iOS.

    You can be in the middle of the action and pushing the HOME button will pause / save where you are for later resumption when you eventually return. It has to be like this to fit in with the scraps of spare time people typically have to consume mobile gaming experiences. Yet, there is no technical reason why the next Xbox couldn't imitate this desirable behaviour. Wouldn't you like to be able to always pause a lengthy cut-scene, or not have to struggle to reach the next checkpoint before you were free for some other activity, or have to manage the manual saving and reloading of unmarked, timecoded, progress files?

    Microsoft should not repeat the mistake of the Xbox Arcade. All 1080s should come with 1 TB HDD or greater to ensure that disc-swapping becomes an anachronism. Developers could then rely on the existence of this vast storage medium to create persistent game worlds. However, I feel it would be a mistake to try to make it into a TiVo as it would be better to let Sky+HD, etc. plug into the rear of the console so that you could get an in-game alert that the Superbowl was about to start in 5min and even keep a watch on things with Picture in Picture technology.
    Edited by Uncompetative at 01/11/11 @ 16:22

  • AOFanboi #64 7 months ago

    Depends on the game. Bought the upgraded God of War I or II on PSN? Please to be enjoy a 9 GB download for each.

    As others have pointed out, the issue is when a retail game is patched or has a mandatory install, then you might as well have bought a download.

  • God_Octo #65 7 months ago

    I'm so glad that the next Playstation isn't going to be digital only- I'd be totally buggered if it was. Our internet is nowhere near good enough to download everything, and then it gets even worse after 5. Plus, there just aren't any benefits of digital distribution that appeal to me- I don;t mind walking, they;re not particularly cheaper and I like owning my stuff.

  • FuzzyDuck #66 7 months ago

    @lollage

    Christ mate, did someone run off with your missus while you were waiting for a game to install on the PS3?

  • Bander #67 7 months ago

    "Sony has indicated its next PlayStation will not be digital-only."

    Are these Sony's words or is it just Wesley being rubbish again? 'not be digital-only' implies that the PS4 will be switching to an analogue storage like LaserDiscs.
    Edited by Bander at 01/11/11 @ 17:49

  • daymun #68 7 months ago

    Seriously what is wrong with these f'ing dev's?

    Why can't they just come out and say
    "I think this industry is great at the moment. I'm loving making creative games that are appreciated by their audience, garnering rave reviews. We're making more money than ever before as one of the few entertainment industries generating massive revenues. Competition is fierce, hence closing studios etc, but that competition is driving the medium forward creatively and i'm just loving being a part of it."?

    Rather than "Whinge whinge broken whinge give me more money whinge whinge piracy whinge hardware limitations whinge pc-vs-console whinge whinge my babies need more gold to sleep on top of whinge?

    I'm inclined to also think gaming journalism is going down the pan as that's about 80% of the crap that seems to get reported nowadays.

    Please don't ask me to back that number up.

    The above in no way represents the opinion of myself or anyone I know or work with. Thankyou.

  • Lunatic4ever #69 7 months ago

    @GamesProgrammer:

    nailed it. exactly my thinking.

  • Mister-Wario #70 7 months ago

    Maybe people like having a physical copy, that they can keep for years and not have to worry about not being able to download it at a later date.

  • layleeloo #71 7 months ago

    £54.99 for the Masters on PS3 store. ENOUGH SAID RE DOWNLOAD SHITE!!!

  • davey_wells #72 7 months ago

    At the end of the day.... does it really f*****g matter???

    Anyone who thinks waiting a few minutes for a game to start up is clearly younger than my generation and therefore have no sympathy.

    We always needed to wait up to an hour for a Spectrum game on cassette to load, with the joys of a snazzy loading screen & some screeching.

    Oh, and no guarantee whatsoever that it would load properly.
    Edited by davey_wells at 01/11/11 @ 21:29

  • Grayvern #73 7 months ago

    It's weird to object to having the option to copy the iso on the 360 or even forced installs on the PS3 especially for people who frequent Eurogamer who probably know about most games months/ years in advance.

    I would say a disc installing itself fits the idea of plug and play as it requires no action on the part of the user which is more about ease of use and not having to work for something to work rather than temporal constraints.
    Edited by Grayvern at 01/11/11 @ 21:47

  • L0cky #74 7 months ago

    @GamesProgrammer Download is more expensive because, as Patti said there's still more money in the physical format. Because of this the retailers have the leverage to demand that publishers don't undercut them on the digital front.

    You'll find that games that are no longer new at retail or are digital only are much cheaper.

  • Shinetop #75 7 months ago

    I like DL games, but i always wonder what if i need the space or HDD brakes, what then? i lose all?

    There is a certain security about having a disc.
    What if the disc breaks? You have to buy a new copy. If your HDD breaks, you just download everything again. Sounds a lot more secure to me.

  • ForozM #76 7 months ago

    I order all my games as physical copies from online stores. Far cheaper than the horrible prices PSN, XBL and Steam go with. The digital model can go to hell if they can't even price competitive.

  • drhickman1983 #77 7 months ago

    The main problem I have with downloaded games, as opposed to games on disc (aside from the previously mentioned price discrepencies), is that it can make having "a quick go" on something redundant.

    For instance, I'm playing generic shooter #17 with a friend, when we get bored and decide to play generic racer #18. But we deleted generic racer #18 to make space for some other crap, and now, with the crappy download speeds available with the UKs infrastructure, we have to wait a fair bit of time for the game to redownload. In which time my friend has gotten bored and made friends with somebody with a bigger HD.

    As HD space increases it might become a lesser problem, but games will also increase in size I'm sure, the download speeds will become even longer.

    Another problem is it makes it impossible to borrow games amongst friends. I'm sure publishers will smile with glee at the prospect of this, but it's still pretty annoying.

    And finally, I like owning physical objects. Old fashioned I know, and pretty irrational, but seeing my games (and films, and books) lined up on a shelf does actually make me rather satisfied.

  • Chrono_1205 #78 7 months ago

    *sniff sniff* Check your shoes i smell bullshit.

  • Obli #79 7 months ago

    Some people like physical copies on a shelf.
    Some people like that the fact that a physical copy has a resale value.
    Some people like to lend each other games.
    Some people cannot download a 25GB game.
    Some people are traditionalists.

    Besides, games that are distributed via the net still have to be installed.

  • Snake_2011 #80 7 months ago

    lollage Rage says hi as well so does the 2 discs not to mention the horrible sound a 360 makes when playing games of the disc.

  • darm #81 7 months ago

    I always buy a disc on consoles if I have that option as it has resale value making it effectively cheaper. PC games do this better - there's hardly any resale value and all the discounts on steam make downloadables cheap.

  • Subdominator #82 7 months ago

    Considering the number of Xbox Live accounts (Silver and Gold) are only half of 360 total worldwide sales it's pretty stupid to not do both, digital and retail. Of course people would laugh at Limbo with its two hour singleplayer at retail. To say a model doesn't work for you is one thing, to say it is broken just because it doesn't work for you is ridiculous.

  • Subdominator #83 7 months ago

    @cfir

    "@lollage XBLA games download and install as a single operation. On PS3 they are simply 2 distinct operations. Please know what your talking about before posting."

    Well ... he is actually right. XBLA games don't need an install, there is no hidden install going on in the background. What happens is the installed game is put into a container which is then distributed over Xbox Live. I am not allowed to talk about the technical details but think about it as an uncompressed Zip file. Everybody who downloads it has the installed version and can play the second it's downloaded. In theory.

    Sadly because there is no install you have to wait for your library to build. If you have a couple of XBLA and/or indie games this can take up to a minute. It's because there is no install, the console doesn't know which games are on the HDD and has to search them all over again each time you quit a game or boot the console.

    But no, there is no install whatsoever on 360 for XBLA games.

  • scor81 #84 7 months ago

    did anyone else see the contradiction in here? he wants games to be downloadable.. which would surely mean they would have to be installed... yet he then goes on to moan about how games are now being installed on consoles? so what does he want? a downloadable file that doesnt get installed but just sits on the hard drive?

  • Marshall2008 #85 7 months ago

    Not everyone has high speed broadband with unlimited download bandwidth. Some of these devs are completely out of touch.

    How many users would be happy to download rage at over 20gb, what if they have 3 consoles and want it on all 3? That's approaching 75gb. Not sure BT and other providers would be happy about that.

    The developers and publishers will soon be forced into paying the broadband suppliers a delivery charge otherwise their 'model' will soon fall flat on its ass.

    The networks have been grumbling about this for a while and are looking for any excuse to charge for this, they see all of this content flowing through their pipes and they don't get a bean.

  • tankboi #86 7 months ago

    @GamesProgrammer A fine point my friend. I remember looking forward to the digital revolution...little did I know that Steam sales where going to be the only time reasonable prices were offered :/

  • gjgjg #87 7 months ago

    its up to publishers to encourage their market to move to digital with better release dates and prices. PSN and XBL basically have the capacity already.
    Id prob buy more full price downloads from the xbla GoD service for eg. if I could get them for the same price on day of release. Same for Steam if they reduced their € price by 20% to match retail.

  • jaec #88 7 months ago

    @Goodfella My biggest problem with downloaded titles is the huge chunk of my download allowance that usually gets eaten up as a result.