Konami: why PES is like a fighting game

By Fred Dutton Published 17 February, 2011

Creator talks footie franchise's history.

The similarities might not be immediately obvious, but one of the key figures behind the long-running Pro Evolution Soccer franchise insists the core gameplay concept is essentially the same as in a fighting game.

This was just one of the nuggets offered up by series creator Shinji Enomoto in a fascinating, albeit lengthy, discussion with Nintendo president Satoru Iwata published on Nintendo's official site.

Discussing the key elements that define the series, Enomoto told Iwata, "According to the producer of PES, Shingo Takatsuka, 'The offense and defence in football games are like those in fighting games.'

"He says, 'In short, the difference is that you steal the ball from each other instead of trading punches.'"

"That's really interesting," Iwata replied. "I've never associated football games with fighting games, but if you look at football as a combat sport, reading the other side's offense and defence really is the same as it would be in a fighting game. 'If my opponent comes at me this way, I'll kick it that way', that sort of thing..."

"It's true that offense and defence are integrated in both football and combat. Things that can cause great damage to your opponent also tend to create holes in your defence. For that reason, how you read each other and what tactics you use becomes key."

Elsewhere in the interview, Enomoto also explained how PES was the first footie sim to detach the ball from the player's foot while dribbling.

"In previous football games, structurally, the ball and the athlete stuck together." he explained. "In other words, when the ball came near the athlete, it would naturally be drawn to the athlete's feet. Our objective, then, was how to separate the athlete and the ball."

Enomoto went on to admit that despite Konami's best efforts to make the series as realistic as possible, it still has a very long way to go.

"Even though we've been doing this for 10 years, I don't feel as though we're even close to capturing real football."

The next iteration of the series, which started way back in 2001 on the PSone, is Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 3D, out on 25th March for Nintendo 3DS.

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (20) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • taurus82 #1 1 year ago

    Mmm... Prison Rules Soccer? I'd actually buy that.

  • Mr.DNA #2 1 year ago

    I had been a fan of Konami's football series since it was called International Superstar Soccer, and it was for years the best version of video game football that money could buy. Nowadays, though, there is absolutely no point in playing it because FIFA is just streets ahead. Get your act together, Konami.

  • DrStrangelove #3 1 year ago

    "That's really interesting," Iwata replied. "I've never associated football games with fighting games"

    Says the president of the company that gave us Nintendo World Cup.

  • Alestes #4 1 year ago

    Nintendo World Cup doesn't exist in Japan. The japanese version was very different with 13 high schools playing against eachother, not a "world" cup. Also, it wasn't developed by Nintendo.

  • DrStrangelove #5 1 year ago

    Btw, I pray that EA will revive its Mutant League franchise sometime. Would definitely buy that.

  • Feanor #6 1 year ago

    I still love PES 5 and 6.

  • blackbriar101 #7 1 year ago

    Pes 5 still the best football game.

  • Jay-ITFC #8 1 year ago

    "Even though we've been doing this for 10 years, I don't feel as though we're even close to capturing real football."

    Think we'd all agree with that one!

  • chasejamie #9 1 year ago

    FIFA is good but it really isn't streets ahead of Pro Evo, not by a long shot (excuse the pun).

  • Ashcroft #10 1 year ago

    The series started in 1994, on the SNES.

    Goal! Goaal! Gooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaall!

  • lambtron #11 1 year ago

    "why PES is like a fighting game"

    Because it hasn't evolved in about 10 years...

  • Trent_Steel #12 1 year ago

    It's still the connoisseurs choice!

  • Mattuk123 #13 1 year ago

    I think they turned the corner with pes 2011 plays a better game of football than FIFA. can't wait to see what there doing with pes 2012

  • nuanimal #14 1 year ago

    Would rather have ISS...

  • Pastici #15 1 year ago

    'Elsewhere in the interview, Enomoto also explained how PES was the first footie sim to detach the ball from the player's foot while dribbling.'

    UEFA Striker did this in 1999, not being arsey, just picked it up cheap for the Dreamcast yesterday :).

  • AusFreelancer #16 1 year ago

    True this.....just ask Zidane & De Jong.

  • hulkamania78 #17 1 year ago

    I thought FIFA09 was the closest to a true PES game since then its sneaked in the same old Sweet shots of the FIFA,s of the last gen. PES2008 I accepted as a blip due to the teleportng online and still played everyday but 2009/2010 got traded in within a week really poor.

    However for me personally PES2011 is miles better than FIFA11. I own both and only play FIFA when my ex PES playing mates want a game. But the Maters League Online is really simple but addictive. I play about an hour a day on that game mode alone.

    Having played some tournies with my mates on FIFA11 the same slide rule goal is there if you go one on one. Finesse button goal. And despite how good PES 5 was it had the cut backs goals but now FIFA11 has them and it ruins the game.

    PES2011 has some really frustrating A.I problems people running away from the ball and despite a patch some Player switching problems. However it still is a better game of footy than FIFA for me. The unusual goals and jump out of your seat moments are back in PES.

    Not sure about PES or Footy being like a combat game/sport but this could be one of the problems why some of the really basic stuff has been lost in translation with PES 2009 and 2010. I still believe PES should be developed in Europe with people having a real understanding of the game.

    Also why cant EA or kONAMI release there games nearer to the start of the season Surely that is an oppurtunity missed and everyone loves the start of the football season. Patching obviously after 31st Aug but PES may gain some ground on FIFA by releasing first every year.

  • HL706 #18 1 year ago

    "Elsewhere in the interview, Enomoto also explained how PES was the first footie sim to detach the ball from the player's foot while dribbling. "

    SWOS, Kick-Off, GOAL?

    Loads of games did it before PES, maybe if some of the dev team played older football games they could recapture the magic of PES rather than let it fester and stagnate year after year. Or even better, stop churning out bug-riddled football games every year and release squad updates via DLC in the 'off' years. (This could all easily apply to EA btw!)

  • Pasco #19 1 year ago

    "'Elsewhere in the interview, Enomoto also explained how PES was the first footie sim to detach the ball from the player's foot while dribbling.'

    UEFA Striker did this in 1999"

    Virtua Striker did this in 1994. Victoly!

  • Ranger101 #20 1 year ago

    Makes sense - A 2D fighter like Street Fighter isn't about punches and kicks, it's about controlling space. Thats the absolute fundemental principle to high-level play. See David Sirlin's videos on youtube for more info.... in fact here's a link.

    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4#t=0m58s
    ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQ...[/link]

    If you havent come across this concept before... you're welcome! It'll change the way you look at and play fighting games.
    Edited by Ranger101 at 18/02/11 @ 13:43