Carmack: id graphics next-gen ready

By Robert Purchese Published 1 February, 2011

No need to "radically rework" architecture.

Half-robot programming wizard John Carmack knows id Software needs to keep pace with new hardware - that's why he's already begun researching the next-generation of videogame graphics.

But for better or worse, he hasn't uncovered anything that's going to require a massive rethink - presumably regarding proprietary games engine id Tech 5.

"Games today look incredible, and there are few things that we can't do a pretty good job of rendering with the available techniques, so it is much more a question of balancing and trading off the development process against the fidelity of the product," he divulged on the Bethesda Blog.

"We have to be reactive to hardware trends, and there are still large bodies of work in the offline rendering world to consider, but I don't feel huge pressure to radically rework our graphics architecture right now."

"Still, I have done a fair amount of research work this year to help clarify our next generation directions, but so far they have mostly been negative results – I know we won't be rendering with a triangle intersection ray tracer on the next gen, for instance. I have a couple more research projects to undertake in the coming year, but the technical work I am most excited about doesn't have anything to do with graphics, but instead with the data management and work flow through the development process."

And who wouldn't be excited about data management and workflow through the development process, John?

Carmack, the man who made Quake and Doom, said there used to be clear graphical progress each generation, as well as a big push in between to thump out more frames per second and more pixels and more triangles.

He's been at the vanguard of game engine development for years, and is currently wowing us with newest creation id Tech 5 - the grunt beneath Rage and Doom 4.

Last year id Software boss Todd Hollenshead told Eurogamer that id Tech 5 will not be licensed out to third party developers and publishers. The technology is instead reserved for games published by ZeniMax and Bethesda Softworks.

Meanwhile, it won't surprise you to learn that Carmack likes rockets. He's been studying them for over a decade and has his own aerospace company that's going out of the Earth's atmosphere next year. So, how does building a computer game compare to building a spaceship?

"The saying 'rocket science' is bad in two ways," declared Carmack. "Rocketry isn't science; it is applied engineering, and while it is hard in the sense of having high consequences for failure and a challenging evolutionary cycle, it really isn't all that complicated compared to many other endeavours.

"A modern videogame is much more sophisticated than an orbital rocket," he said.

Who on this planet could interest such a man at a dinner table, you ask?

"Hmm," pondered Carmack, possibly calculating the universe. "I put Shigeru Miyamoto up on a bit of a pedestal for having done so much work that I admire for so long, but I know I can have an entertaining conversation with someone like [Epic Games'] Tim Sweeney or [Valve's] Gabe Newell."

This is what Carmack can do on iPad.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (40) Latest comment 1 year ago

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  • lordofthedunce #1 1 year ago

    Great. I'm not even sure if graphics are the real challenge for devs these days, judging by the netcodes and post-release patches required to fix all manner of bugs.

  • agparrot #2 1 year ago

    I'd love to hear a philosophical discussion between Carmack and Cliffy B.

    Eurogamer Interviews: Make It So!

  • CaptainQuint #3 1 year ago

    Now all ID need to do is make sure their gameplay is "next-gen ready", as well.

  • carrotcake #4 1 year ago

    So rocket science isn't that hard after all. Is brain surgery still hard? Good old Carmack, I do like to hear what he has to say, it's never going to be the same views as anyone else you can quote. He knows things, like really.

  • infernox1 #5 1 year ago

    paddy29, i dont think thats what is going to happen. 1080p maybe, but if devs can get away with 30fps, they will. some prefer more effects/quality with 30fps then less with 60fps.

  • thewool #6 1 year ago

    so current gen pc gfx then.

  • Andeus #7 1 year ago

    agparrot Cliffy B was a level designer/ is a game designer. He doesn't hold a candle to Carmack's coding awesomeness :p

  • djed #8 1 year ago

    Cool, so finally we can forget about the graphics, and focus on better AI and world simulation.

  • ThePissartist #9 1 year ago

    @thewool

    Unlikely MS/Sony will make machines that are only fast enough to make the same games as today, but in higher resolution and FPS.

    That would be daft.

  • ChthonicEcho #10 1 year ago

    "A modern videogame is much more sophisticated than an orbital rocket".

    He's not very good at analogies, is he?

  • Gurgeh #11 1 year ago

    He's not making an analogy. He doesn't say making games is like building rockets, and he should know as he's involved in both.

    He's been focusing on the reducing development time and costs for games for some time now, rather than just pushing against the boundaries of graphics. What's been shown of the tools that they have available was very impressive, but you'd have to question whether he is succeeding in his goals given how long Rage is taking to come out.

  • thesombrerokid #12 1 year ago

    this doesn't preclude the id tech 6 sparse voxel octree that he's researching just now, he hasn't explicitly called that a failure & I've not seen him say anything positive about tessellation, so i think at this point the next engine is on track to extend the concept of mega texturing to geometry, for better or worse.

  • CheesecakeBobby #13 1 year ago

    @ThePissartist

    Isn't that pretty much what they did last time though? Graphics, physics and all have improved significantly over the last generation, but the framerate hasn't improved in most cases. Anything over 30FPS is seen as an achievement in console games - 60fps has become a bullet point for the back of the box. The supported resolution hasn't gone up *that* much, considering how many Xbox 1 games could run at 720p if you had a US console and the component adaptor.

    When we get HD remakes, we tend to get the same graphics but at a higher resolution (i.e no polygon count bump) and at a higher frame rate. Few console games have 'next gen graphics' at 60fps , even at 720p. I'm glad the next generation of consoles are not being rushed to market, it increases the chance that when they finally do come out developers will be willing to sacrifice a few shader effects etc at the expense of stability at full HD (as the consoles should have the grunt to produce impressive graphics even at that framerate and res).

  • Stomp224 #14 1 year ago

    What did Carmack say when his parrot disappeared?

    "Polygon"

    (terribly sorry, but halfway through reading the article that popped into my head)

  • NewbieZilla #15 1 year ago

    @agparrot

    Cliffy B: "Who is Phil and why are we talking about him?"

  • Concrete #16 1 year ago

    I get a little sad when I think of Carmack being just another drone in a big publisher. I mean ID defined PC games for about 5 years and he was a big part of that. I'm sure he's still got the Ferrari's and everything but there was a time when he spoke and people listened accross the whole industry.. perhaps just me being nostalgic!

  • ThePissartist #17 1 year ago

    @CheesecakeBobby

    Yes, HD remakes have the same poly count as the original, because they're ports. Actual new games made for the 360/PS3 have dramatically improved poly counts and shader effects (remember, thePS2 didn't even have shaders). The resolution has also increased from SD to HD. Also, consider the online differences for a second.

    They will be much more than PC games of today.

  • ChthonicEcho #18 1 year ago

    @Gurgeh
    Claiming that a modern video game is more sophisticated than an orbital rocket sounds like a comparison to me. Keyword here being 'more'.

  • Darren #19 1 year ago

    "I know we won't be rendering with a triangle intersection ray tracer on the next gen..."

    No, I'm sure I saw that in an episode of Star Trek once... ;)

  • butler` #20 1 year ago

    @Concrete

    He's a credit to the industry though tbh. Think how many industries could use his skills, and how much they'd be willing to pay him for them...

    He must still love makin' dem games. And at the end of the day, he is still one of the more influencial guys in the industry.

  • cjb110 #21 1 year ago

    @agparrot
    A discussion between Carmack and Sweeney would be better, as they are both engine/tech guys. How they see the next few years would be interesting. Are we going to plateau as consoles and mobiles become the main target with their very limited hardware? PC's are pretty much at the stage, and defo will be by mid year, where 2560x1600@60fps is doable. Compare that to sub 720p resolutions the ps3 and 360 are chugging out. Given that both men are in control of engines that are licensed from top to bottom of the scale, it'd be interesting to see how much is common between the iOS code and the pc code and what compromises each guy made.

  • telboy007 #22 1 year ago

    The next gen is it being beamed direct into our brain boxes. Bring it on!

  • Bleemo #23 1 year ago

    "He's not very good at analogies, is he?"

    That wasn't an analogy mate, an analogy is where you compare two things that have similarities yet are not really related to one another e.g. sometimes life is like riding a bike up hill, because they are both difficult things to do. Just saying one thing is harder to do than another isn't an analogy it is a fairly general observation. Not to mention he has Apserger's syndrome so he doesn't do analogies.

    "I'd love to hear a philosophical discussion between Carmack and Cliffy B."

    I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic here as Cliffy is a self important moron and Carmack is a self important genius. However I suspect a convo between the two would probably be not too dissimilar to the conversations John of both Romero and Carmack fame had back in the day.

    Romero: "oh dude wouldn't it be cool if we made a game where you could chainsaw some zombie dude to death?"

    Carmack: "I have made some trajectories and my hypothesis suggests this notion, taking into account current rendering on a PC rig on there, is feasible if taking into account API's, DLL's and wormscale divide notions of a functacular array system on there.."

    Romero: "oh dude you lost me there but it sounds like we're totally going to make gamers our bitches! High five dude!"

    *Carmack stares and then goes back to his computer*
    Edited by Bleemo at 01/02/11 @ 17:12

  • Fixxxer #24 1 year ago

    I'd be too busy gettin' down to another funktacular array to notice.

  • Collymilad #25 1 year ago

    @thewool

    Yeaaah...No.

    Why would machines released in 2014-15 be equal to current gen PC graphics? They will fucking destroy them (although obviously at that point PC graphics will still be ahead as is always the case)

  • Bleemo #26 1 year ago

    "Why would machines released in 2014-15 be equal to current gen PC graphics? They will fucking destroy them (although obviously at that point PC graphics will still be ahead as is always the case)"

    Not sure that is true to be honest we've gotten to the point where the cost of making games outstrips the average net income recouped for a game. I cannot imagine anyone really wanting to massively jump the graphical fidelity of games.

  • evnewell #27 1 year ago

    I'm with Paddy29. We need to properly consumate the move to HD with systems that can comfortably handle the format. The fact that nothing can run at 60fps, 1080p, without screen tearing and/or dramatically reducing effects and polycounts, tells me that these consoles aren't really HD ready.

    Hold on, I know they are HD consoles - they can output in full HD, but we really aren't there yet. We need consistent 6o fps, 1080p AND anitialiasing. I find this generation more jagged than the previous due to the definition leap.

  • sneetch #28 1 year ago

    @Bleemo

    Sheesh, he has Asperger's he's not a malfunctioning android.

  • Bleemo #29 1 year ago

    "Sheesh, he has Asperger's he's not a malfunctioning android."

    He isn't? haha someone needs to tell him that, he's awesome but his interviews are like some demented robot forgetting his duties and going off on some mad tangent because he wants to an nobody can stop him. Kryton in Red Dwarf was more human like than little JC.

  • StooMonster #30 1 year ago

    cjb110: PC's are pretty much at the stage, and defo will be by mid year, where 2560x1600@60fps is doable

    My PCs have been doing 2560x1600@60fps for years, with likes of Unreal engine or Source engine many multiples of that, even Gamebryo runs that no problems. In fact one really has to crank up the AA to slow down to 2560x1600@60fps for most games.

    It's not "by mid year", it's been there ... done that (ages ago).

  • Machiavellian #31 1 year ago

    He's been focusing on the reducing development time and costs for games for some time now, rather than just pushing against the boundaries of graphics. What's been shown of the tools that they have available was very impressive, but you'd have to question whether he is succeeding in his goals given how long Rage is taking to come out.

    I can understand why Carmack is excited about the data management and workflow aspect he is doing now instead of pushing the graphical boundaries. If you have done any database and workflow type development you would know how powerful those types of development can be especially if you are creating a development environment for a host of different platforms and making them all work seamlessly. The complexity of a project like that is huge and from what I have seen of the tools that are coming out for rage definitely worth the development effort.

    What I am thinking the challenge Carmack is facing is having one development environment like Visual Studio. You can program for one system like the PC, and the tools will create the same game on the 360, PS3, IOS, Android, Windows Phone 7, you name it. Such an environment would be a godsend to a lot of developers and allow them to get their games out on as many system as possible.

  • FooAtari #32 1 year ago

    @agparrot
    "I'd love to hear a philosophical discussion between Carmack and Cliffy B."

    Why, Carmack is a programmer, Bleszinski is a designer (and a dick).

    @Bleemo
    Romero was like that from what I have read, and true he designed large parts of Doom, but he was also a programmer. Just not on Carmacks level. So bit unfair to paint a picture of him like that.
    Edited by FooAtari at 01/02/11 @ 18:20

  • Bleemo #33 1 year ago

    "Romero was like that from what I have read, and true he designed large parts of Doom, but he was also a programmer. Just not on Carmacks level. "

    You can be like that and a programmer he was and still is to some extent. Also CliffyB knows some programming code and yet is still a wannabe rock star designer. In the old days a lot of designers were programmers because nobody else was nerdy enough to get involved bar some art guys and programmers. Admittedly Kojima/Miyamoto/Spector break that rule.

  • Machiavellian #34 1 year ago

    Why, Carmack is a programmer, Bleszinski is a designer (and a dick).

    Interesting, when I see commenters call Cliff a name like the one above, I trully wonder why developers would ever care about the average gamer. Cliff is no more a dick then any of you who comment on a forum or post. Yeah, you might not like his opinion but then again no one really likes anyone opinion unless it mirrors their own. So Cliff said some things you did not like and now he is a dick. Lately, Cliff has not spoken his mind because people like you. You have succeeded, he will give you the happy PR line so you can think nice things about him or totally forget whatever he says. Personally, I like a developer to speak their mind. Weather I agree or not is my right but that doesn’t mean I have to feel special about myself because I believe my opinion is right and his is wrong or call that person names knowing they cannot defend themselves.

    Maybe it’s me but when I see people calling Cliff names like yourself, it really shows more about the poster than the person they are calling names but then again asking for maturity on the internet is like asking for water from a stone.

  • Bleemo #35 1 year ago

    "So Cliff said some things you did not like and now he is a dick. "

    I suspect people think Cliff's a dick because he acts like a wannabe rock star waffling on about his girlfriends and d-list celeb friends when it should be about the game not him. He doesn't boil my blood with hatred to be fair, but if i saw him out on the street acting like a sad thirty something bloke acting like (and dating) a twenty something I would still think he was a bit of an arse regardless of what he did for a living.

    He is also largely hyped up as a top game designer when I think most of us from the old PC crowd recognise that he has essentially only ever made one game, "generic sci-fi shooter" but simply switched from first to third person view. His games aren't bad but they aren't anything to write home about either you can put them in the same class as the sort of games as gearbox, Ravensoft, Monolith etc make i.e. palpable shooters that aren't as good as Half Life.

  • Machiavellian #36 1 year ago


    I suspect people think Cliff's a dick because he acts like a wannabe rock star waffling on about his girlfriends and d-list celeb friends when it should be about the game not him. He doesn't boil my blood with hatred to be fair, but if i saw him out on the street acting like a sad thirty something bloke acting like (and dating) a twenty something I would still think he was a bit of an arse regardless of what he did for a living.

    Maybe it's me but I haven't seen any of this waffling. I read the interviews and things like that so I haven't heard about his girlfriend or him meeting some d-list celeb so where is this type of stuff reported. The interviews I have seen not only was spotlighted by him but also other main people on the game so I haven't seen where he was making himself to be the end all be all to Gears. Even if this is the case, sounds more like jealously then anything else. Someone doing well, hanging out with so called cool people, dating young hot women and having fun must be a bad thing and punished.

    I guess everyone believe they have the perfect personality and others who do not conform to their view of how you behave should be drawn and quartered.

  • Bleemo #37 1 year ago

    "Even if this is the case, sounds more like jealously then anything else. Someone doing well, hanging out with so called cool people, dating young hot women and having fun must be a bad thing and punished."

    Nope that's bollocks its because it is irrelevant to gaming. It's fine for him to have a hot girlfriend I am sure he's not the only one who does. But it is utter bollocks for him to waffle on about making out with his girlfriend on the Gears of War making of docu thingy I saw. It is lame for him to encourage people to follow him on twitter and then post pictures of his girlfriend in her underpants and photos of his expensive sports cars. Guys like Gabe Newell and Shigeru Miyamoto don't need to bleat on about how much money they have or how good their car is. Is the fact that he is mates with Ice T going to make his games better?

    It's stuff like this that is always going to make him look like a douche. Alongside making wild ass remarks e.g. pc gaming is dead, I hate the PS3, Kojima style of development is a thing of the past.

    In a way guys like him and David Jaffe are a creation of the Kotaku style of games coverage. We need "famous" faces to write pointless, bullshit blogs about. Which to me is another step down the road toward the same shallow Hollywoodesque, "omg what is cliffyB doing with his hair this month" shite that has permeated ever other form of entertainment and as a straight working class bloke I cannot be doing with it.
    Edited by Bleemo at 02/02/11 @ 00:18

  • DrStrangelove #38 1 year ago

    God bless this man. Can't wait for Rage and Doom 4, will buy both on day one. For Windows, of course.

    It's interesting how the same guy who pioneered smooth EGA side-scrolling on PC 20 years ago still is at the forefront of gaming graphic engines today.

    I think the greatest challenge of increasing platform performance is the amount of time and resources needed to create content that lives up to the tech. But as far as I know, making development easier is one of the top priorities of id Tech 5, so they're right on track apparently.

  • Machiavellian #39 1 year ago

    Nope that's bollocks its because it is irrelevant to gaming. It's fine for him to have a hot girlfriend I am sure he's not the only one who does. But it is utter bollocks for him to waffle on about making out with his girlfriend on the Gears of War making of docu thingy I saw. It is lame for him to encourage people to follow him on twitter and then post pictures of his girlfriend in her underpants and photos of his expensive sports cars. Guys like Gabe Newell and Shigeru Miyamoto don't need to bleat on about how much money they have or how good their car is. Is the fact that he is mates with Ice T going to make his games better?

    Sorry but if you are following anyone on twitter you get what you deserve. Still sounds like jealously to me. I guess its an attitude thing with me. If I read his twitter I probably would tell him his girlfriend is hot and how does one of those exotic expensive car drives. As far as I know, there is only one person who was perfect on this Earth and we know what happen to him.

  • StooMonster #40 1 year ago

    cjb110: Compare that to sub 720p resolutions the ps3 and 360 are chugging out

    That's party why I've still been PC gaming for last few years -- ultra high resolution graphics -- that and keyboard&mouse for FPS and new technologies such as online saves (Steamworks).

    However, becoming increasingly disappointed with mutliplatform games pandering to the lowest common denominator features in whichever console (to make them both the same) and PC simply having higher pixel and temporal resolution than consoles but same crappy textures and cutscene video.

    Some games are still brilliant on PC, Batman AA at 2560x1600 with everything maxed out and full hardware physics is awesome, other titles are less so.

    So it's going to be interesting to see what Carmack is doing with idTech 5 on Windows/Mac as opposed to Xbox/PS3 versions. If it runs fast on consoles, and we've been told that it's 60fps, then it should run no issue at 2560x1600 on PC at 60fps ... but will it have more than simply resolution for the platform?