Internet Gaming "celebrities" and their racism (no Gladiators discussion) Page 13

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  • disusedgenius 13 Sep 2017 15:29:43 8,519 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    your argument above that if others are being harmed by something and I am not then I am benefitting from it. I disagree strongly.
    Oh, I see. Duly noted. Needless to say I'd need a bit more of an argument to go on if you want a follow up, then.

    Edited by disusedgenius at 15:30:32 13-09-2017
  • bad09 13 Sep 2017 15:30:27 8,007 posts
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    JoelStinty wrote:
    A crude analogy, but most people think about the eggs they buy from the supermarket and choose to buy free range. I guess it is just being aware and from time to time think about what ever you are doing on any given day. At least question it anyway. Think of eggs!
    A derail (no, not jet) but I kinda preach to people at the moment on this and you said free range so I'm gonna jump in. I urge people to look for (and ask for at your supermarket) free range milk. Arla do it, it's pricier than the race to the bottom pricing of conventional milk but something we are never told is a hell of a lot of conventional milk cows do not actually go outside at all most of the time as it gets more industrialized, fewer (but larger) herds are housed in large warehouses. Free range ensures a good source and they get at least 200 months outside. Buy it, give the cows a better quality of life.

    Free range rant over. Carry on the racial discussion guys...if only racism was as easy to change :lol:
  • Mfolf 13 Sep 2017 15:32:07 1,424 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    I think we're all shades of arse hole on this forum.
    Everyone everywhere is. Load kind of made the point earlier.

    We are all complicit in terrible things that happen in this world. The food industry. The textile industry. The tech industry. Environmental damage. Sweat shops. Child labour. Sexism. Racism. And and and...

    Again, we have an unhealthy obsession with binaries. It's like you're either a good person or you're a bad one. You're either moral or immoral. We're all somewhere on the continuum. We could all be worse, but we could definitely all be better.

    You'll never be perfect. You'll never be free from accusations of hypocrisy and complicity in awful things that happen around you. But you can always be more aware and more proactive. It's when you decide that you're not the problem that you start being part of the problem.
    Okay this I can get on board with as it has been my approach to these issues for as long as I remember.

    My issue is going from that to accusing someone of being racist. It might be a soft topic but that is a bloody hard conclusion and has moral and frankly legal connotations that shouldn't be thrown around so easily.
  • Mfolf 13 Sep 2017 15:32:41 1,424 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    your argument above that if others are being harmed by something and I am not then I am benefitting from it. I disagree strongly.
    Oh, I see. Duly noted. Needless to say I'd need a bit more of an argument to go on if you want a follow up, then.
    erm, the previous posts?
  • JoelStinty 13 Sep 2017 15:39:39 5,832 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    disusedgenius wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    i added in sufficient degree to throw you a bone. Take it out and it will probably be more accurate to the point being made.
    Then I'm a bit lost in all this: is this a statement that you're making that you want me to argue against or are you rewording a statement you think I've made to argue against it?
    your argument above that if others are being harmed by something and I am not then I am benefitting from it. I disagree strongly.
    We benefit daily because of our own personal freedoms aren't generally subjected to scrutiny.

    You don't have your cv put in the bin because of your name and are more likely to be given an interview. You don't have accusations of terrorism or crime thrown at you because of your religion or colour of your skin. You're not likely to be subject to stop and go searches. You likely to be treated better by the police or other services. You don't have cat calls aimed at you, you can get married without people trying remove your right to do so. You can wear clothes without being judged. You get paid more for doing the same job as someone else etc etc.

    To be honest we don't really know what it feels like to have those cultural and government biases (conscious or unconscious) work against us.

    Edited by JoelStinty at 15:41:18 13-09-2017
  • disusedgenius 13 Sep 2017 15:40:33 8,519 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    erm, the previous posts?
    Sorry dude, I don't really have a follow up for anything in there. I guess from here on in we'd just be yelling 'yes it is'/'no it isn't' at each other. :)
  • You-can-call-me-kal 13 Sep 2017 15:42:05 9,889 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    My issue is going from that to accusing someone of being racist. It might be a soft topic but that is a bloody hard conclusion and has moral and frankly legal connotations that shouldn't be thrown around so easily.
    This is what I mean about you being defensive. Can you not see how that's quite a defensive reaction?

    The point (again) is to challenge your notion of racism. It’s provocative to get a reaction. There’s no need to be defensive (or worse, litigious) because it’s clearly not a statement directed at anyone individually. She’s just asking you to think about what she’s saying and ask yourself some challenging questions about whether this is relevant to you and your life.

    And like I say, you may not like the provocative nature of the question, but I think that's worth being a little self-reflective about as well. What is it that bothers you so much? Why is it making you feel defensive?
  • Mfolf 13 Sep 2017 16:07:28 1,424 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    My issue is going from that to accusing someone of being racist. It might be a soft topic but that is a bloody hard conclusion and has moral and frankly legal connotations that shouldn't be thrown around so easily.
    This is what I mean about you being defensive. Can you not see how that's quite a defensive reaction?

    The point (again) is to challenge your notion of racism. It’s provocative to get a reaction. There’s no need to be defensive (or worse, litigious) because it’s clearly not a statement directed at anyone individually. She’s just asking you to think about what she’s saying and ask yourself some challenging questions about whether this is relevant to you and your life.

    And like I say, you may not like the provocative nature of the question, but I think that's worth being a little self-reflective about as well. What is it that bothers you so much? Why is it making you feel defensive?
    (again) not being defensive. If anyone is it is you that is being defensive. And if the premise of your/her argument is that she is being provocative to get a reaction, don't act shocked if the reaction looks provoked.
  • Mfolf 13 Sep 2017 16:13:27 1,424 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    erm, the previous posts?
    Sorry dude, I don't really have a follow up for anything in there. I guess from here on in we'd just be yelling 'yes it is'/'no it isn't' at each other. :)
    That's fair enough! Not helped by my daft decision to try and debate on phone.
  • Malek86 13 Sep 2017 16:17:28 6,305 posts
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    Anyway, with how the previous thread went, and now this one, I think we can safely say that nobody here cares about internet celebrities.
  • JamboWayOh 13 Sep 2017 16:25:11 3,362 posts
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    I care how they present themselves, but I give no actual fucks for them on a personal level.
  • mal 13 Sep 2017 16:35:13 28,505 posts
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    Well, it's just pdp this time, isn't it? Maybe with a bit of TB as he always seems to like to align himself with the wrong side when these things come up. Everything else (including TB probably) can be safely covered in the GG thread. In fact, this whole thread and half of the other one could go in the GG thread - it's all part of the same continuum, I reckon.
  • JamboWayOh 13 Sep 2017 16:37:18 3,362 posts
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    Oh God TB, ever the eternal devil's advocate
  • You-can-call-me-kal 13 Sep 2017 16:52:49 9,889 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    My issue is going from that to accusing someone of being racist. It might be a soft topic but that is a bloody hard conclusion and has moral and frankly legal connotations that shouldn't be thrown around so easily.
    This is what I mean about you being defensive. Can you not see how that's quite a defensive reaction?

    The point (again) is to challenge your notion of racism. It’s provocative to get a reaction. There’s no need to be defensive (or worse, litigious) because it’s clearly not a statement directed at anyone individually. She’s just asking you to think about what she’s saying and ask yourself some challenging questions about whether this is relevant to you and your life.

    And like I say, you may not like the provocative nature of the question, but I think that's worth being a little self-reflective about as well. What is it that bothers you so much? Why is it making you feel defensive?
    (again) not being defensive. If anyone is it is you that is being defensive. And if the premise of your/her argument is that she is being provocative to get a reaction, don't act shocked if the reaction looks provoked.
    But why is that your reaction? You clearly feel that you're being 'accused' of something (your word) and that you're morally and potentially legally affronted by that accusation.

    Why you do think you're reacting that way? I'm just trying to understand the language you'r using.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 17:09:43 2,940 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Oh God TB, ever the eternal devil's advocate
    Being the Devil's Advocate is fine occasionally, but I get the feeling TB has also moved in with the devil, pays rent, does the chores, became best bunk buddies and possibly even made the trip to Las Vegas with a wedding dress in the trunk.

    He has such an OVERWHELMING chip on his shoulder again the "mainstream media" that he'll defend ANY YouTube colleague no matter how despicable.

    Being the Devil's Advocate is a well considered Socratic exercise. It requires you to have an understanding of the flaws of the side you're defending. With the amount of bias he takes with him into the job, I have another term for TotalBiscuit:

    Alt-right apologist and smarmy douchebag.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:22:53 13-09-2017
  • macmurphy 13 Sep 2017 17:18:34 2,503 posts
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    @JoelStinty

    Just to say a beautiful, very honest post.

    The word's out in the open now, free to be claimed. If you're black and you're comfortable with it, fine. If you're white and you're using it with black friends who feel comfortable with it, fine. I don't know your life, if it's acceptable to you and your social group I'd be arrogant to proscribe its use.

    But PDP firing it in the open will never be right. It has too much history, too much connotation. As others have said, it's a loaded word. You have to tread carefully.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 13 Sep 2017 17:26:10 9,889 posts
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    macmurphy wrote:
    The word's out in the open now, free to be claimed. If you're black and you're comfortable with it, fine. If you're white and you're using it with black friends who feel comfortable with it, fine. I don't know your life, if it's acceptable to you and your social group I'd be arrogant to proscribe its use.
    There are a LOT of black activists that are heavily against the word being used by anyone, in any context. The argument is that by using it even in the context of it being reclaimed, you perpetuate other's use of the word, particularly as you've created an ambiguity around the word that they can exploit.
  • disusedgenius 13 Sep 2017 17:26:28 8,519 posts
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    Skirlasvoud wrote:
    Alt-right apologist
    You say that, but his post-election rant was a thing to behold.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 17:30:25 2,940 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Skirlasvoud wrote:
    Alt-right apologist
    You say that, but his post-election rant was a thing to behold.
    True, but god dammit TB, lay off defending your dick colleagues! Hit upon the realization that youtubers aren't choirboys and that there's something wrong with your own profession. Have at least that much self-reflection and grow a god damn sense of responsibility. I'm not sure what he's doing, but he's not being a Devil's Advocate. He's being a self-serving hypocrit out to save his own ass and those of his colleagues.

    Maybe I was being hyperbolic. Politically, yes, TB isn't extremist. He loathes people like Trump.
    But fuck me if Hitler didn't open a popular gaming channel tomorrow, spouting racial slurs, with TB leaping instantly to his defence and licking his ringpiece if that happened.

    TB is helping to normalize bad behaviour at the very least.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:52:52 13-09-2017
  • Dirtbox 13 Sep 2017 17:37:37 89,295 posts
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    This thread is now about gladiators.

  • Gearskin 13 Sep 2017 17:52:07 3,071 posts
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    There is more "hate" directed at PDP in this thread than PDP appears to have directed elsewhere.

    Discuss.

    As an aside, TB is the only YouTuber I cannot stand. He comes across as a total ego-cunt. Always has.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 17:56:54 2,940 posts
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    Gearskin wrote:
    There is more "hate" directed at PDP in this thread than PDP appears to have directed elsewhere.

    Discuss.

    As an aside, TB is the only YouTuber I cannot stand. He comes across as a total ego-cunt. Always has.
    Agreed on both counts.

    The reason so much hate is leveled at PDP, is because he was in the wrong. It's like applying a societal bandage to push back on bad behaviour. People are hating and sharing their hate, not so much to punish PDP, but as a bonding exercise. We're all making sure we're feeling the same way, to make our values and world vision clear, to each other and to PDP.
  • matrim83 13 Sep 2017 18:23:17 5,684 posts
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    Gearskin wrote:
    There is more "hate" directed at PDP in this thread than PDP appears to have directed elsewhere.

    Discuss.

    As an aside, TB is the only YouTuber I cannot stand. He comes across as a total ego-cunt. Always has.
    Yep. The multimillionaire youtuber hurling racial slurs in front of an audience of kids is truly the victim in all of this.

    People should be more tolerant of that stuff.

    Edited by matrim83 at 18:23:45 13-09-2017
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Sep 2017 19:02:16 47,196 posts
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    You know how is even more of an idiot than TotalBiscuit?

    Frickin' notch. All the money in the world and he spends his days yelling at women on the Internet.
  • nickthegun 13 Sep 2017 19:20:20 71,913 posts
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    Yeah.... I dont know why but I was quite surprised that someone who could come up with something as gentle and benign as mincraft could actually be a total fucking weapon.
  • Dirtbox 13 Sep 2017 19:28:54 89,295 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    You know how is even more of an idiot than TotalBiscuit?

    Frickin' notch. All the money in the world and he spends his days yelling at women on the Internet.
    To be fair, they're fucking stupid women. Weaponised feminism at it's finest.
  • Tonka 13 Sep 2017 19:32:20 26,479 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Yeah.... I dont know why but I was quite surprised that someone who could come up with something as gentle and benign as mincraft could actually be a total fucking weapon.
    It's the booze taking. He's sad, drunk and alone.
  • challenge_hanukkah 13 Sep 2017 19:33:30 5,225 posts
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    He could always buy a fedora made of platinum or something.
  • disusedgenius 13 Sep 2017 19:35:59 8,519 posts
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    He does have an entire wall of sweet dispensers, it has to be noted.
  • Tuffty 13 Sep 2017 19:37:59 4,022 posts
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    Boogie is the true devil's advocate. Defending PDP, Jontron's racist tirade and GamerGaters. He defends actual Neo Nazi's right to free speech while also saying he would do the same for anyone on the extreme opposite side. But you can't just sit in the middle for every single issue, you have to take a stand. He just does it to a fault. If he's sitting on the fence, then he's covered in splinters.
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