The Drug discussion.

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  • Moot_Point 12 Jun 2013 14:54:57 3,488 posts
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    Apparently a scientist called Professor Nutt (heh!) recons that there is censorship concerning the positive effects drugs have. Aritcle

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    mowgli wrote: I can't believe this is still going. I'm far too hungover for this. I did not poop on a chair lol!

  • Shikasama 12 Jun 2013 14:59:19 6,272 posts
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    I honestly don't care about the physiological effects of drugs, it's the social problems they bring that piss me off.

    A friend of mine is an insane cokehead and I've tried explaining to him that regardless of who he buys his shit off, that money filters through to the real scum of the earth. The kind of people that should be taken down by the secret bloody service.
  • neilka 12 Jun 2013 14:59:40 14,935 posts
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    He's off his Nutt!!!!!!!!
  • Humperfunk 12 Jun 2013 15:02:45 1,603 posts
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    It's a bit Nutty!

    PSN & NNID: Wedjwants

  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:24:42 83,797 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    I honestly don't care about the physiological effects of drugs, it's the social problems they bring that piss me off.

    A friend of mine is an insane cokehead and I've tried explaining to him that regardless of who he buys his shit off, that money filters through to the real scum of the earth. The kind of people that should be taken down by the secret bloody service.
    Is that not an argument for legalisation?
  • Shikasama 12 Jun 2013 15:26:35 6,272 posts
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    Probably. It's the social harm that bothers me not the fact that people want to put heroin in their body as opposed to say...alchohol or doritos. I'd probably be in favor of licensing and taxing it all.
  • LeoliansBro 12 Jun 2013 15:31:59 41,839 posts
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    Legalising is the way forward, but the problem comes with diminished judgement and responsibility leading to harm to others (drunk driving etc) and the addictive (and therefore ruinous) quality of some drugs.

    On both counts alcohol is a throwback and should not be legalised if we were consistent on policy.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:36:49 83,797 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Legalising is the way forward, but the problem comes with diminished judgement and responsibility leading to harm to others (drunk driving etc) and the addictive (and therefore ruinous) quality of some drugs.

    On both counts alcohol is a throwback and should not be legalised if we were consistent on policy.
    I don't think alcohol is a throwback.

    It all comes down to personal responsbility. There are lots of things in our society that are potentially lethal like cars, knives, even guns, but we allow people to use them responsibly, and if they abuse that right, we take it away. Drugs should be the same.
  • Deckard1 12 Jun 2013 15:39:24 25,338 posts
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    My mind feels a lot less spongy than it did when I used to take drugs. But its also a lot less of an interesting place to be.

    Thats all I've got to say about that.

    Called it

  • LeoliansBro 12 Jun 2013 15:42:10 41,839 posts
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    kalel wrote:

    It all comes down to personal responsbility. There are lots of things in our society that are potentially lethal like cars, knives, even guns, but we allow people to use them responsibly, and if they abuse that right, we take it away. Drugs should be the same.
    Here's the thing though - cars, knives, gun etc do not interfere with judgement, and so you can act rationally in their use. Drugs target your perception of reality and so your judgement becomes impaired and you are very much not in your right mind when under the influence.

    As to alcohol being a throwback, I meant that in terms of it being more addictive, more socially damaging and worse for you than many banned substances.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Shikasama 12 Jun 2013 15:43:51 6,272 posts
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    Yeah you've got think that if cigarettes were 'discovered' today they wouldn't be legal.
  • WoodenSpoon 12 Jun 2013 15:46:24 12,251 posts
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    I haven't smoked since Saturday!

    NGNGHNNHGHNGNGN
  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:46:46 83,797 posts
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    @LeoliansBro

    I do wonder though if that attitude was specifically a bit of a 20th Century one - the age of prohibition and a general feeling that anything mind altering was bad.

    These days the world seems to be gradually shifting back towards being a bit more open-minded about these things again.
  • LeoliansBro 12 Jun 2013 15:48:32 41,839 posts
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    I welcome personal responsibility and an openminded attitude, absolutely (see first post).

    All I was driving at was that alcohol is a bit of an odd one on the legal / illegal divide. I know why it is legal, of course.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • disusedgenius 12 Jun 2013 15:50:21 5,140 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I do wonder though if that attitude was specifically a bit of a 20th Century one - the age of prohibition and a general feeling that anything mind altering was bad.
    Well, it was a World War 'don't be drunk/hungover in a munitions factory' thing with DORA which brought in licensing hours. Drug legalisation wasn't even until the 60s or something, iirc, and even then it was from heavy US pressure to follow their lead.
  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:50:51 83,797 posts
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    Yeah, alcohol is an anomaly, particularly as it's so incredibly easy to make your own that prohibition is literally impossible.
  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:51:29 83,797 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I do wonder though if that attitude was specifically a bit of a 20th Century one - the age of prohibition and a general feeling that anything mind altering was bad.
    Well, it was a World War 'don't be drunk/hungover in a munitions factory' thing with DORA which brought in licensing hours. Drug legalisation wasn't even until the 60s or something, iirc, and even then it was from heavy US pressure to follow their lead.
    Are you disagreeing with me or not?
  • disusedgenius 12 Jun 2013 15:52:23 5,140 posts
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    Agreeing.
  • RightBean 12 Jun 2013 15:53:09 602 posts
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    I think the laws should be relaxed for scientific research purposes, is what nutt is complaining about. I think shrooms and things should be legal to consume in private, maybe not really addictive stuff like crack, but everything should be open to science.
  • LeoliansBro 12 Jun 2013 15:54:38 41,839 posts
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    I don't think you should be stoned on the street but I absoutely think you should be allowed to be stoned at home if you want to be.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 15:55:17 83,797 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Agreeing.
    Heh, sorry, the novelty threw me :)
  • disusedgenius 12 Jun 2013 16:00:17 5,140 posts
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    As if I'd ever be contrary while bored at work. :p
  • kalel 12 Jun 2013 16:01:57 83,797 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I don't think you should be stoned on the street but I absoutely think you should be allowed to be stoned at home if you want to be.
    What happens if I get stoned at somebody else's home? Can I walk back to my home?
  • RightBean 12 Jun 2013 16:02:04 602 posts
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    I never understood why brown reclassified the weed, that seemed unprompted and just weird, could have given it more time to see how the new classification played out.
  • mal 12 Jun 2013 16:02:28 21,928 posts
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    Dave Nutt got pushed from his job in the Home Office in 2009 (as the article states) because of analyses such as these - it's nothing new. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it of course.

    It's worth noting the article only really talks about the effects of the ban on scientific research, and I can't really argue with that. But it's worth noting that the bans were introduced because it was decided that society as a whole wasn't ready for these substances. Just because we're not grown-up enough to handle alcohol and tobacco very well doesn't mean we should add more drugs to the mix.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • RedSparrows 12 Jun 2013 16:02:39 20,738 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I don't think you should be stoned on the street but I absoutely think you should be allowed to be stoned at home if you want to be.
    What happens if I get stoned at somebody else's home? Can I walk back to my home?
    Only if you check in with Drug Daddy every 24 hours.
  • LeoliansBro 12 Jun 2013 16:05:20 41,839 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I don't think you should be stoned on the street but I absoutely think you should be allowed to be stoned at home if you want to be.
    What happens if I get stoned at somebody else's home? Can I walk back to my home?
    Bit nitpicky for you kal?

    I'm saying you shouldn't stagger about the place stoned in the same way you shouldn't stagger about the place drunk, nor should you smoke weed on the street in the same way you shouldn't drink openly on the street (more so, since passive smoking would be fucking rippling).

    Better than just saying 'NO' under all circumstances which is what we have now.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Madder-Max 12 Jun 2013 16:41:49 11,565 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    My mind feels a lot less spongy than it did when I used to take drugs. But its also a lot less of an interesting place to be.

    Thats all I've got to say about that.
    How longa ago u give up? I gave up chems 16 years ago and dope 4 years ago ( cosd all I could get was skunk which is shit and not good ata all). Took ages but I find my mind to be a calmer and more interesting place to be now.

    I found that nicotene was by far the hardest to give up and u don't realise jjust how powerful it is until to try and stop. Cold turkey is the only way to do it and fuck knows what chems go into those smokeless things.

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • Khanivor 12 Jun 2013 16:49:26 39,862 posts
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    Guns certainly impair judgment when people carrying decide that the way to settle a parking dispute is to kill another human being. Without a gun you're far less likely to make that choice.

    Of course such things don't directly change one's perception on a chemical level but even cars make people act differently. Unless you can honestly say you wish someone would die horribly if they cut in front of you walking on the pavement, for example.

    We can't legislate away people's desires to get wasted. We can however enact laws to minimize the damage that can cause. Which is why drugs should be legal and addiction shouldn't be viewed as something which turns a person into a subhuman class of being.
  • Shikasama 12 Jun 2013 16:50:35 6,272 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Which is why drugs should be legal and addiction shouldn't be viewed as something which turns a person into a subhuman class of being.
    Some would argue that subhuman behavior is one of the hallmarks of an addict.
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