Do People need to stop Pre-Ordering? Page 5

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  • spamdangled 18 Feb 2013 20:52:49 27,269 posts
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    TheRealBadabing wrote:
    I still say that review sites like EG should provide information about embargo dates. Put it on the relevant game page, whether they intend to review or not.

    Knowing in advance that a marketing/PR department doesn't want anyone apart from their "exclusive" partners writing stuff is generally a good indicator. Naming and shaming would go a long way to eradicating the practice.
    I would imagine that embargoes come with NDAs if you want to actually get a review copy at all.

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  • kinky_mong 18 Feb 2013 23:36:36 9,941 posts
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    wayneh wrote:
    kinky_mong wrote:
    I preorder games because I get them the day before release and for cheaper than it would have been to travel to one of the ever decreasing number of stores full of the great unwashed.

    Apparently I'm the moron for doing that. Oh internet, you so crazy!

    I pre-order for the same reason, can I join you in the naughty corner?
    Yes, but we can only stay there for 1 day (or 6 months depending on your viewpoint).

    Also just to be clear I don't think anyone's an idiot for buying games whenever or however they want*, but I do think trying to act superior over any aspect of this is quite laughable.

    *well except people who buy retail games direct from the Xbox/PS3 store when they're about 50 months after the game was released, that's a special kind of crazy!

    Edited by kinky_mong at 23:37:08 18-02-2013

    I'll never get my Orc looking the same again.

  • bad09 19 Feb 2013 00:01:48 5,623 posts
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    @darkmorgado

    "Review embargoes are pretty much a totally separate issue from pre-ordering."
    Not when a review is embargoed until launch then the two meet, which is kinda what threw this pre-order debate open.


    "You trust reviews from certain sources? So why not previews? If there is a broad consensus on something in preview stage, preordering it's no different buying something on the back of numerous good reviews really."
    Personally I decide for myself reviews don't actually factor into my buying habits I just read them out of interest. That aside I see what you mean but previews as we've seen can be wrong or the press could be misled.


    "It's not moronic to want to ensure you get something that might be getting produced in limited numbers."
    Well there is that but most people aren't pre-ordering a stupidly expensive collectors edition and that's not what we are talking about specifically just general pre-ordering.


    Ni No Kuni Wizard Edition and many collector's editions say hi.
    See above


    "How is it damaging to the industry? It's practically guaranteed revenue, and many developers base their sales projections (and stock allocations to reailers) in part on preorder numbers in advance of release. If anything it's good for the industry."
    You misunderstand. I mean damaging in that people get burned or have buyers remorse because it's not what they thought etc. Could it damage the industry in that people start to buy less or mistrust the industry with a lack of "faith" through bad pre-orders?

    Edited by bad09 at 00:07:54 19-02-2013
  • bad09 19 Feb 2013 00:06:31 5,623 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    bad09 wrote:
    Point is, while now not many have embargoes up until launch (or at least until pre-orders start getting dispatched) as more people do pre-order there is a danger that may change.
    Is there? Based on what evidence?
    I'm saying there is a danger not that it is certain to happen. You don't think there is though? This industry isn't exactly honest when selling and never has been (not aimed at everyone of course but there are cases for misleading consumers and outright lying throughout gaming history).

    Edited by bad09 at 00:10:18 19-02-2013
  • bad09 19 Feb 2013 00:07:24 5,623 posts
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    -cerberus- wrote:
    This week on The Jimquisition
    Excellent vid, mirrors a lot of my thoughts on the state of the industry right now.
  • PenguinJim 19 Feb 2013 00:14:48 5,754 posts
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    Syrette wrote:
    I wonder if there's a previously unknown stigma against renting games too?
    I thought the stigma of inserting a dirty, diseased whore of a disc into your personal drive was widely known?
  • Stoatboy 19 Feb 2013 00:51:22 35 posts
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    Publishers make decisions based on the number of pre-orders they get.

    Decisions usually for how large a marketing budget to have, or whether to make additional DLC. Lots of pre-orders = more marketing, higher chance of DLC.

    Probably doesn't make the game any better. Makes it more likely to be in your face and in-stock though. And that makes it more likely to sell.

    If it's shit and people are pre-ordering it that's a problem. If it's brilliant and people aren't - also problematic. But the problems are only there because of all the people preordering in the first place. If nobody pre-ordered AT ALL, nothing would get boosts in stocking and advertising purely because of it.

    The guy complaining that he didn't get hold of Ni No Kuni earlier in the thread? If more people had pre-ordered it then the stores would likely have stocked more copies. Even if it wasn't you pre-ordering - you would have had more chance getting a copy. If it had turned out to be utter garbage that's what the pre-orderers would be getting though. And anyone who picked it up in store because they now had it in stock...

    Edit: In a nutshell - if shit games get lots of preorders they will tend to sell better than they would have without them. If brilliant games get very few preorders they will tend to sell worse than they should have. And niche games will never get the pre-orders to match up to mainstream games so they're fucked on this count from the outset.

    IMO, if you don't pre-order anything you are opting out of this system - casting a "none of the above" vote, as it were.


    Edit 2: Also - if you absolutely definitely want to pre-order - then do it as late as possible. You'll get the pre-order bonuses and prices from the shops, but you won't be telling the publishers anything they can use to their advantage. Pre-ordering months in advance is telling them they have your money already, and so they'll want your cash for DLC too...

    Edited by Stoatboy at 01:48:10 19-02-2013

    Edited by Stoatboy at 01:54:31 19-02-2013
  • TheRealBadabing 19 Feb 2013 01:44:47 1,279 posts
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    I think you have publishers and retailers mixed up there.

    A publisher decides well in advance how big a marketing spend is allocated to a project. Much of that spend is directed at pre-order schemes. DLC strategies are also decided well before pre-order numbers start coming in.

    Publishers show these marketing budgets, along with projected sales figures, to retailers who then decide on stock levels. They don't suddenly double their order because their Swindon branch started giving away free pre-orders with every trade in.

    The only people that benefit from pre-orders are marketing/PR departments, which is why it is so unusual to see any criticism of the practice in the gaming press.
  • spamdangled 19 Feb 2013 03:52:53 27,269 posts
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    @bad09

    Then really that's their problem - that's what the press is for, preview videos, dev diaries, etc etc. As a consumer, you only have yourself to blame for paying in advance for something long before it comes out.

    But most places don't take your money for preorders until they ship anyway - by which time you normally have plenty of notice to cancel and avoid paying for a piece of crap.

    Case in point - I had Omerta preordered for ages on the back of the excellent Tropico 3. Then the reviews hit, and I cancelled it 4 days before it was due to ship.

    Enough stuff came out about Colonial Marines that I cancelled my preorder months ago. It's not like it was a sudden shock that it was going to be an utter pile of the brown stuff, most people saw it coming months ago.

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  • spamdangled 19 Feb 2013 03:53:25 27,269 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    Syrette wrote:
    I wonder if there's a previously unknown stigma against renting games too?
    I thought the stigma of inserting a dirty, diseased whore of a disc into your personal drive was widely known?
    Euphemism?

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Stoatboy 20 Feb 2013 02:40:43 35 posts
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    @TheRealBadabing: No. I've been in meetings where publishers have told us that the preorders are good or bad, and how that's influenced them.

    People preorder early enough to influence the game.

    If they're doing that they're telling the publisher they already have their money - they're already buying what they're selling.

    Let's ask how Aliens:CM got released in the state it was again, shall we?

    People pre-ordered it - fucking loads of them judging by the comments threads. Lots rescinded apparently, but most didn't...

    You can blaim Gearbox for releasing it - but they thought it was good enough. Maybe "somebody" (everyone who still had a pre-order) told them it was...
  • timetraveler 20 Feb 2013 08:12:56 61 posts
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    After Aliens Colonial Marines - I won't preorder any game :p
  • GiarcYekrub 20 Feb 2013 08:59:04 3,658 posts
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    I don't preorder for preorder bonus's, when I do preorder its usually because I'm getting it regardless due to faith in the developer/franchise, price and to be sure I'll get a copy on Launch Day.

    That said the games that usually fall into that catagory are the ones the supermarkets have a great promotion on.
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