Celebrity Tax Avoidance Page 3

  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

  • TheSaint 21 Jun 2012 11:36:51 14,197 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    roz123 wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Any of you pay one penny in tax more than you have to?
    If it was not going to be spent on wars in the middle east and bailing out the banks I would happily pay more tax.
    Yeah, you'd be in a much better situation if we had let them go to the wall and you had lost all your money.
  • gang_of_bitches 21 Jun 2012 11:37:16 5,442 posts
    Seen 1 week ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Here's a fun one as well. Internet piracy? Leads to lower corporate revenue, lowers profits, reduces government income.

    But that's a victimless crime, so Jimmy's must be as well?
    If that isn't a straw man I have no idea what is.

    Keep on topic!
  • glaeken 21 Jun 2012 11:37:39 11,083 posts
    Seen 14 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I think the comparison to what Jimmy Carr as done to an ISA is a little silly. Do we not recognise the degrees of difference between the two?

    Stealing 10p is not the same as stealing a million pounds. Which is not to say I am in anyway saying the law has been broken here but we have to recognise that there can be degrees of difference between two things.

    Aside from this the ISA has been designed for a specific purpose and Carr has taken advantage of an unintended loop hole. Ok we can argue about if its intended or not but being as itís been defined as a loop hole that would suggest the official position is itís not intended to exist.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 11:40:03 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    senso-ji wrote:
    Here's an idea - why doesn't everyone in the UK get paid an untaxed wage by their employer, and be allowed to use every tax loophole available to pay the absolute minimum tax. Then see just how much the Treasury recovers in one year compared to the current system.
    This is something everyone is free to do...

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Rhythm 21 Jun 2012 11:40:18 2,462 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    TheSaint wrote:
    roz123 wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Any of you pay one penny in tax more than you have to?
    If it was not going to be spent on wars in the middle east and bailing out the banks I would happily pay more tax.
    Yeah, you'd be in a much better situation if we had let them go to the wall and you had lost all your money.
    /tangent

    In fairness, any banks that fail should be allowed to fail. Bailing out is shite, why prop up a company that's been proven to not work? If you're going to throw "bail out" money anywhere, throw it at the poor customers.
  • Load_2.0 21 Jun 2012 11:42:04 18,831 posts
    Seen 29 minutes ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    Who is to say he is spending that much in the UK? (He is, because my did his home audio set up in his new house) perhaps all his money is held in offshore bank accounts and he plans to retire abroad.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 11:42:08 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Here's a fun one as well. Internet piracy? Leads to lower corporate revenue, lowers profits, reduces government income.

    But that's a victimless crime, so Jimmy's must be as well?
    If that isn't a straw man I have no idea what is.

    Keep on topic!
    It really isn't intended as such, promise! I'm just trying to demonstrate that tax avoidance is at once legal, sensible and a lot more common than everyone seems to assume.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 11:43:01 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Glaeken - neither's stealing.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • gang_of_bitches 21 Jun 2012 11:43:39 5,442 posts
    Seen 1 week ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Rhythm wrote:
    TheSaint wrote:
    roz123 wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Any of you pay one penny in tax more than you have to?
    If it was not going to be spent on wars in the middle east and bailing out the banks I would happily pay more tax.
    Yeah, you'd be in a much better situation if we had let them go to the wall and you had lost all your money.
    /tangent

    In fairness, any banks that fail should be allowed to fail. Bailing out is shite, why prop up a company that's been proven to not work? If you're going to throw "bail out" money anywhere, throw it at the poor customers.
    Best read the 300 odd pages of the ...getting a little bit scary thread rather than going through it all again here.
  • Dougs 21 Jun 2012 11:44:55 66,579 posts
    Seen 21 minutes ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9715000/9715304.stm
  • senso-ji 21 Jun 2012 11:45:24 5,789 posts
    Seen 55 minutes ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    senso-ji wrote:
    Here's an idea - why doesn't everyone in the UK get paid an untaxed wage by their employer, and be allowed to use every tax loophole available to pay the absolute minimum tax. Then see just how much the Treasury recovers in one year compared to the current system.
    This is something everyone is free to do...
    No it's not. In order to opt out of PAYE you need to satisfy some very specific criteria which your employer may not agree to.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 11:46:10 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Nah, that's his best shot at a personal jibe and it's weaksauce. If RBS and Lloyds HBoS had been allowed to fail he'd be in a far worse place than he is now. As would everyone.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Zomoniac 21 Jun 2012 11:46:43 7,785 posts
    Seen 28 minutes ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    Rhythm wrote:
    Would anyone saying "fair play to him" spout the same line when they see teenagers having more and more kids to bump up the benefits and house they're entitled to claim for?
    No, but that's largely because the country is massively over-populated and can't take more people.
  • Inertia 21 Jun 2012 11:46:57 676 posts
    Seen 58 minutes ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    @LeoliansBro

    He has admitted he was wrong, of course this is a PR exercise, but if he were blameless he would argue more keenly for his actions.

    I hear the argument for trickle-down economics all the time and I might be persuaded if any figures could validate this position but he spends money all over the world on global products that can be ordered in from other countries. I have no idea where and how he spends his money so I have no idea whether he helps or hinders our economy.

    But if he paid more than £3500 tax on millions I could be more certain he helps our economy more than he hinders it.
  • glaeken 21 Jun 2012 11:48:36 11,083 posts
    Seen 14 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Glaeken - neither's stealing.
    Which is why I said as much. A stealing example was just what I used to try and demonstrate that two things can differ by a large degree which you can superficially say are the same thing.
  • gang_of_bitches 21 Jun 2012 11:49:01 5,442 posts
    Seen 1 week ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Here's a fun one as well. Internet piracy? Leads to lower corporate revenue, lowers profits, reduces government income.

    But that's a victimless crime, so Jimmy's must be as well?
    If that isn't a straw man I have no idea what is.

    Keep on topic!
    It really isn't intended as such, promise! I'm just trying to demonstrate that tax avoidance is at once legal, sensible and a lot more common than everyone seems to assume.
    But it becomes muddy when as was pointed out earlier the whole system would collapse if everyone did it. To be legitimate in a democratic society, I really think it has to be open to all or none.
  • mcmonkeyplc 21 Jun 2012 11:49:26 39,384 posts
    Seen 10 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Most people DO pay the aboslute minimum tax...

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LockeTribal 21 Jun 2012 11:50:36 4,490 posts
    Seen 24 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Dougs wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9715000/9715304.stm
    Pressed by John Humphrys on whether Sir Philip's tax strategy - whereby he transferred ownership of his company to his wife, registered in Monaco, to avoid tax - amounted to "morally repugnant" tax avoidance, he refused to comment on an individuals' tax affairs.
    Won't comment on an individual's tax affairs, unless it's Jimmy Carr apparently.
  • Rhythm 21 Jun 2012 11:52:24 2,462 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Tax avoidance played a large part in the Greek situation.

    I am surprised LB would champion the practice.
    Misreporting income is tax evasion, which is illegal. And if the practice is fiscally damaging the Government is perfectly welcome to respond. My point is that everyone assumes this is both accidental on the Govt's part and bad for the economy, when it may be neither.

    Inertia: where does Jimmy Carr spend all his money? He's boosting growth in the UK economy through spending, helping consumer confidence and also ultimately filling government coffers through the eventual corporate taxes. Obviously it isn't this extreme, but then neither is it as extreme as your point.
    But is he spending as much as the tax bill? Using Adele as an example, she earnt 8 million from 19, 4 million of which was taxed. Had she avoided that tax bill would the net gain to the gov't still have equated to 4 million in pure tax? Would it fuck! And she'd have still been spending/investing the rest of the 4 million she'd been left with anyway.

    I know as a banker you're interested in trying to save as much money for people as possible but the fact remains that avoiding paying your dues is cuntish as fuck. Taking what excessive amounts you earn from this country and piling into a tax haven or other such place is fucking sucky.
  • Deleted user 21 June 2012 11:52:51
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Most people DO pay the aboslute minimum tax...
    No they don't. Not even close to it.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 11:53:09 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    God. Right.

    sensoji re PAYE exemption. I think I've lost track of the thread of your argument here. Are you angry because he didn't pay as much tax proportionally as you, or that he was allowed to for being self-employed?

    Inertia re him not being a benefit to the economy, of course he isn't. I'm trying to look at the picture in total. See what I said earlier to g_o_b about attracting wealth.

    glaeken re value being a key difference. Then it becomes a question of degree, which Jimmy Carr's detractors aren't arguing. They are treating this as wrong full stop, not just wrong because it's so much.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Inertia 21 Jun 2012 11:56:15 676 posts
    Seen 58 minutes ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    Cameron was naive in criticising Carr though as the follow up stories are just waiting to be written by the press. Miliband, for once, showed more astute judgment in his restrained remarks.
  • senso-ji 21 Jun 2012 11:56:22 5,789 posts
    Seen 55 minutes ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    sensoji re PAYE exemption. I think I've lost track of the thread of your argument here. Are you angry because he didn't pay as much tax proportionally as you, or that he was allowed to for being self-employed?
    I'm not angry - If legal tax avoidance is morally acceptable and nobody is morally obliged to pay more tax to the government than the minimum, then I want the system to be opened to every tax payer in the country and the PAYE system abolished to allow this. Then I want to see what impact that will have on the Treasury.
  • Deleted user 21 June 2012 11:56:33
    Is it moral that anyone has to pay any tax?
  • disusedgenius 21 Jun 2012 12:00:31 5,195 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Aargh. wrote:
    Is it moral that anyone has to pay any tax?
    Sure, unless you're going to contrive some kind of hermit who doesn't benefit from/interact with society.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 12:01:44 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    senso-ji wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    sensoji re PAYE exemption. I think I've lost track of the thread of your argument here. Are you angry because he didn't pay as much tax proportionally as you, or that he was allowed to for being self-employed?
    I'm not angry - If legal tax avoidance is morally acceptable and nobody is morally obliged to pay more tax to the government than the minimum, then I want the system to be opened to every tax payer in the country and the PAYE system abolished to allow this. Then I want to see what impact that will have on the Treasury.
    I'm really, really not following. You're effectively saying that if everyone paid as little tax as Jimmy Carr the system would fall over, right?

    Well, yes.

    However given the PAYE arrangements the current loophole is a valid incentive to encourage wealth to the UK, not an accidental oversight exploited by bastards.

    I guess to pre-empt your associated point, you think it unfair that Jimmy Carr can do this when employed people in the PAYE scheme cannot? That was why I was asking whether your problem was rather with the idea he's allowed to and you can't, rather tyhan whether it was wrong full stop. And can I recommend looking into becoming a contractor / self employed in that case?

    What do you mean your industry doesn't have the scope for that? You think Jimmy Carr took comedy A-Level?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Inertia 21 Jun 2012 12:01:48 676 posts
    Seen 58 minutes ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    @Aargh.

    I wrote that on my tax returns but Inland Revenue seemed to ignore my question. Maybe they are just giving it more thought.
  • LeoliansBro 21 Jun 2012 12:02:37 43,128 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    disusedgenius wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    Is it moral that anyone has to pay any tax?
    Sure, unless you're going to contrive some kind of hermit who doesn't benefit from/interact with society.
    Or alternatively have so much money that you are not a burden on society. Note this will never be 100% true in the real world.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 21 Jun 2012 12:02:51 39,384 posts
    Seen 10 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Aargh. wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Most people DO pay the aboslute minimum tax...
    No they don't. Not even close to it.
    How many people actually have a say how much money is taken from their income? It comes from PAYE. The government determines your tax level through your pay. You pay only at the level at which you are.

    Most people don't have investment accounts, additional income from other businesses and shares.

    So they pay income tax and VAT. The minimum tax.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

Log in or register to reply