Ethics in Video Games Survey

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  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 01:40:27 7 posts
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    To anyone that likes video games:
    Please take my survey!

    http://www.surveybuilder.com/s/KqaF37F4QAA?source_id=3&source_type=web

    It takes about 5 minutes and will greatly benefit my research. Thank you!
  • Toonster 12 Dec 2011 01:50:31 6,844 posts
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    done and done. Good luck in your research!

    3DS: 0361-6951-2609 (Tom)

  • coojam 12 Dec 2011 01:51:20 625 posts
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    I started filling this in and gave up when I got to the question that asks about which genres I believe to involve ethical and started ticking all the boxes.

    Basically, I think you need to define what you mean by "ethics" and "ethical". For example, I consider it unethical to ram a human opponent off the track in an online racing sim, but that's a completely different thing to murdering a village full of NPCs in an RPG, which I think might be more what you're getting at.
  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 01:54:32 7 posts
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    coojam wrote:
    I started filling this in and gave up when I got to the question that asks about which genres I believe to involve ethical and started ticking all the boxes.

    Basically, I think you need to define what you mean by "ethics" and "ethical". For example, I consider it unethical to ram a human opponent off the track in an online racing sim, but that's a completely different thing to murdering a village full of NPCs in an RPG, which I think might be more what you're getting at.
    That's fine. Both are equally applicable; I purposely left it vague because of examples that you gave!
  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 02:01:51 7 posts
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    Toonster wrote:
    done and done. Good luck in your research!
    Thank you so much!
  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 02:09:26 7 posts
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    Quick bump!
  • SpaceDave3000 12 Dec 2011 02:10:29 78,254 posts
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    Done.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 02:22:23 7 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Done.
    Thank you!
  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 03:37:23 7 posts
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    Bump!
  • coojam 12 Dec 2011 13:35:55 625 posts
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    Nisten wrote:
    coojam wrote:
    I started filling this in and gave up when I got to the question that asks about which genres I believe to involve ethical and started ticking all the boxes.

    Basically, I think you need to define what you mean by "ethics" and "ethical". For example, I consider it unethical to ram a human opponent off the track in an online racing sim, but that's a completely different thing to murdering a village full of NPCs in an RPG, which I think might be more what you're getting at.
    That's fine. Both are equally applicable; I purposely left it vague because of examples that you gave!
    I thought that might be the case but wanted to clarify :) Will complete it later!
  • Spin_Dr_Wolf 12 Dec 2011 13:55:55 6,170 posts
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    That took me more than 5 minutes ! I demand my money back.
  • Madder-Max 12 Dec 2011 14:00:28 11,656 posts
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    Meh. needs to be more specific and clearer in the questions. this has just been thrown together in reaction to the Vaz stuff and I dont see what ehtics have to do with video games and how you treat a bunch of pixels and code; particularly when you have an age rating system in place for games and when making comparrisons to film media which is far more graphic in many ways.

    If we go down this route then games will end up too dumbed down.

    your 'band wagon' survey not done

    Edited by Madder-Max at 15:05:35 12-12-2011

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • glo 12 Dec 2011 14:00:41 3,425 posts
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    only took me a couple of minutes, you must have been pondering long and hard on your answers Spin_Dr_Wolf.
  • redcrayon 12 Dec 2011 14:06:35 4,558 posts
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    I took the survey, but it seems like it's all just window dressing to ask what gamers think of the popular trolley philosophy question, is that right?
  • Xardan 12 Dec 2011 14:58:42 717 posts
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    Please tell us about your research Nisten. Why you are doing it etc.

    “You are what you write.”

  • AcidSnake 12 Dec 2011 15:18:01 7,282 posts
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    OK, but shouldn't the train track one include the "but you'll die too if you pull the lever"?

    Otherwise who would ever not pull the lever?

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • Moshbag 12 Dec 2011 15:33:43 106 posts
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    Survey asks which genres do ethical decisions play a MAJOR role, but there's no option for 'none' and I can't continue without checking one of the boxes.

    Don't point that beard at me, it might go off!

  • Metalfish 12 Dec 2011 15:37:02 8,819 posts
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    Eurogamer forumites, pointing out flawed question design since 1998.
  • Xardan 12 Dec 2011 15:41:43 717 posts
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    RPG's always have some ethical decisions required of the player. Well Western ones anyway.

    “You are what you write.”

  • warlockuk 12 Dec 2011 16:11:56 19,178 posts
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    I only implied a genre had ethical decisions applied if you were allowed to make them.

    In an FPS if you don't shoot the bad guy in his monkey face you can't progress.

    In an RPG you can ever help the girl find her lost chicken or eat the chicken and decapitate the girl. Choices.

    I'm a grumpy bastard.

  • nickthegun 12 Dec 2011 16:15:49 60,118 posts
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    In a game where im not judged for my ethics, I will generally do what I like. When its a black and white morality play like KoTOR, I always play whiter than white because I dont like the fake computer people to think im a bastard.

    When I found out that punching pedestrians did nothing in Deus Ex I knocked people the fuck out, especially the git who tries to extort money out of you.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    someone say something funny

  • AcidSnake 12 Dec 2011 16:22:24 7,282 posts
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    Actually yeah, being annoying becomes a serious offence...

    Though I'm usually the good guy in everything I do I did on occasion assassinate the beggars/musicians in Assassin's Creed I/II...

    "Please, some coins! No, you don't understand"
    "No...You don't understand..."

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • Fatiguez 12 Dec 2011 16:34:16 8,743 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    OK, but shouldn't the train track one include the "but you'll die too if you pull the lever"?

    Otherwise who would ever not pull the lever?
    I think the ethical question there is that some people will think of it as worse to actively kill one person through their own action, rather than do nothing and have five others die as a result of something else. It's that old question of whether it's worth sacrificing the few to save the many etc., as far as I could tell

    Anyway, filled it in. I liked the little picture I got at the end
  • AcidSnake 12 Dec 2011 16:45:44 7,282 posts
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    @Fatiguez:
    Oh, I see...
    Still a stupid question though, pulling the lever might actively kill one but also actively saves 5 others...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • redcrayon 12 Dec 2011 16:48:12 4,558 posts
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    What has always bothered me about the trolley problem (and usually it's explanations and theory afterwards) is that, as the tram driver, I don't think you can really claim it as 'only' having passively killing the 5 if you press nothing- you are the driver, in charge of the tram, it's brakes and it's levers, and thus responsible whatever happens. Sure, you didn't tie them to the tracks, but at least the conscious choice to switch at least shows you were aware of the urgency and scale of the problem, rather than doing nothing which is effectively the same as being an airline pilot with a choice of crashing into a city or the water, and just closing your eyes and saying 'not my problem, I didnt push that swan into engine 4'. Certainly interviews with train drivers who have run people over where there was nothing they could do about it often show a sense of being 'responsible' for the cause of death, poor sods.

    Interesting variants of it include one where you personally know the 'one', and another where you are on a bridge and have a choice to drop a concrete block on the track, directly killing the tram driver but saving all 6 others.

    Edited by redcrayon at 16:49:31 12-12-2011
  • AcidSnake 12 Dec 2011 16:50:47 7,282 posts
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    ...but one of those 5 people is Hitler!

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • quadfather 12 Dec 2011 16:58:03 12,221 posts
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    done

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • agparrot 12 Dec 2011 17:01:54 11,903 posts
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    Fatiguez wrote:
    AcidSnake wrote:
    OK, but shouldn't the train track one include the "but you'll die too if you pull the lever"?

    Otherwise who would ever not pull the lever?
    I think the ethical question there is that some people will think of it as worse to actively kill one person through their own action, rather than do nothing and have five others die as a result of something else. It's that old question of whether it's worth sacrificing the few to save the many etc., as far as I could tell

    Anyway, filled it in. I liked the little picture I got at the end
    It did also say that the train would be diverted.

    You have to weigh the lives of those additional four dead people against the possibility of being slightly late, and incurring the wrath of some very irate commuters!

    It's a tough one.
  • Madder-Max 12 Dec 2011 17:17:16 11,656 posts
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    This is not an ethical debate. the impact ones conduct/actions have in a game do not impact other people. A gamer directs an avatar who's actions have an effect on another Avatar which is all within the limits of the game designs.

    It is a game. there is a world of difference between how you treat a bunch of code and pixels and how you treat other living humans.

    You would have to give recognition of code and pixels being of sentient concience or something

    You would have to be utterly insane to even entertain the notion of ethical debate around games themselves.

    the ethical debate should be around access to games, the enforcement and delivery of the age rating system and the attitude of parents who will buy Saints Roww III for little tommy naggyshit.

    the parents who buy these games for their under age kids and do not inform themselves of the gaming world (which is now the largest entertainment medium) are unethical.

    Edited by Madder-Max at 17:23:17 12-12-2011

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • Nisten 12 Dec 2011 21:06:18 7 posts
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    I must say, I am most impressed with European respondents! The issues you all illustrate are fascinating--more so than those of my American audience (I live and study in California).

    Thank you for continuing the debate!
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