Wii U Page 1186

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  • CosmicFuzz 26 Feb 2014 19:46:43 32,062 posts
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    Fuck me.

    Don't buy a WiiU if you don't want to.

    And no, their games will never, ever appear on anything other than a Nintendo console.
  • Deleted user 26 February 2014 19:48:35
    hurst21uk wrote:
    VG_Addict wrote:
    Nintendo is for kids. They make the same games over and over again, and their manchildren fans buy them every time.
    Right whos sock account is this?

    Edited by joelstinton at 19:49:19 26-02-2014
  • Fake_Blood 26 Feb 2014 19:51:47 7,917 posts
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    I think they will sell to a japanese company.
  • nickthegun 26 Feb 2014 19:51:50 72,064 posts
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    VD_Addict does make some interesting points, though.
  • Kami 26 Feb 2014 19:52:49 2,660 posts
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    @hurst21uk; There's a good chance they will, but no, it's not 100%. Nintendo will no doubt make a profit in 2014 (after a year where their expectations were considerably higher than they usually are!), and they've got plenty of money in the bank and royalty cheques rolling in. Will the Wii U be the sales fireball of the Wii? Probably not. Will it be a successful console? Well, that's about the games, and we won't know until the generation is over on that front. Will it eventually be profitable and make Nintendo a pile of money? All signs point to yes. But is it enough? Euurgh...

    Everyone has massive problems right now though; Nintendo's ego got the better of it, Sony has no control over its finances and Microsoft sound to be internally tearing apart. What is frustrating is that most people don't like to admit that all three companies have major issues that at any moment could very possibly see them all crash out of the console market, with people running around in front of these consoles, jackets splayed out and shouting at the tip of their voices, "NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG EVERYTHING IS FINE NOTHING IS RUINED!"

    I have a morbid curiosity at the best of times though, and I am fascinated at the car-wreck. The more people try to tell me everything is fine, the more I realise it isn't; The Streisand Effect in full swing. Do I have some optimism that the market will find its feet in the next couple years? Yes. If you don't have optimism, what is the point?

    Is someone going to fall on their sword this generation? I have no doubt someone will; the Wii U and Nintendo are by no means special, unique... or alone.
  • CosmicFuzz 26 Feb 2014 19:57:10 32,062 posts
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    I really don't think there's a good chance they will at all. There's more chance of Nintendo leaving the console business and focusing on handheld and other products rather than do that.

    Sega became a software developer because they were broke. Nintendo has more money in the bank than Sony and Microsoft combined.
  • VG_Addict 26 Feb 2014 20:00:08 62 posts
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    How likely is it that they drop out of the home console business after this gen?
  • CosmicFuzz 26 Feb 2014 20:02:13 32,062 posts
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    Why do I get the feeling you'd get a perverse satisfaction from them if they did?
  • Deleted user 26 February 2014 20:16:56
    All joking aside, its going to be quiet in here for a while.  Next big release is what, Mario Kart in June?  Yes, I know its late May but might as well be June.

    Not too many of you seemed to buy Tropical Freeze either, but you really should, its £30 and its a fantastic game. 

    Some eshop bits and bobs coming up no doubt but not really interested in another NES remake jobby or GBA games on the VC. 

    It is what it is.  Might give me a chance to do some more Monster Huntering and make a start on Rayman Legends and Super Luigi. 
  • Cappy 26 Feb 2014 20:21:46 13,655 posts
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    VG_Addict starkly illustrates for us the perils of video game addiction.

    You think you can handle it but before you know it, you're taking a savage ramming in the arse from a Turkish businessman in exchange for another go on Rise of the Robots and it's too late to turn back because the mental deterioration has already set in.
  • Deleted user 26 February 2014 20:42:13
    Pinky_Floyd wrote:
    All joking aside, its going to be quiet in here for a while.  Next big release is what, Mario Kart in June?  Yes, I know its late May but might as well be June.

    Not too many of you seemed to buy Tropical Freeze either, but you really should, its £30 and its a fantastic game. 

    Some eshop bits and bobs coming up no doubt but not really interested in another NES remake jobby or GBA games on the VC. 

    It is what it is.  Might give me a chance to do some more Monster Huntering and make a start on Rayman Legends and Super Luigi. 
    Will more than likely pick up dk this weekend after being paid. The more I read about it from yourself and others it appeals more and more
  • Armoured_Bear 26 Feb 2014 22:20:43 20,673 posts
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    VG_Addict wrote:
    Nintendo is for kids. They make the same games over and over again.
    Clearly a sock.
  • mikew1985 26 Feb 2014 22:50:53 14,467 posts
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    So I've had a week and half with the Wii u now and sm3dw is nothing more than very good.

    It's definitely not anywhere near Galaxy. I finished playing a world this evening and my first thought was "thank god I didn't crack and buy a Wii u for this".

    I like it and all. It's certainly better than I thought it would be after e3 last year but I can't say I'm not a little disappointed.

    Edited by mikew1985 at 22:51:53 26-02-2014
  • Deleted user 26 February 2014 23:45:45
    I actually think its better than either of the galaxy games, but thats just me.

    I have clocked up 275 hours on the Wii U in about 8 months. 

    Games finished or near enough are:

    Wonderful 101
    Wind Waker HD
    Pikmin 3
    Lego City Undercover
    Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

    Every one of those has been utterly fantastic and have been a total blast of fresh air gaming wise for me despite the sequelitis and remakeus thing going on.  Each one has hit the spot perfectly and shunted out plenty of big hitters on the other consoles/pc.

    Games I have been enjoying but not close to finishing:

    Zombi U
    Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
    Knytt Underground

    Still to unwrap:

    New Super Luigi Bros
    Rayman Legends

    I have got some great value out of this little box of underpowered poop.  Here's hoping that the few games incoming for 2014 match up to what has gone previously. 
  • MrFlay 27 Feb 2014 00:07:20 3,626 posts
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    I have no regrets about buying a Wii U even if they abandon it before a new Zelda. I have more than enough games along with a number of excellent Wii games and some Virtual Console titles too.
  • Ror 27 Feb 2014 00:17:14 16,743 posts
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    I only ever played about half an hour of Mario Galaxy and it didn't grab me. To be fair, it was at a mate's house and I probably should have borrowed it and played it in my own time.

    But then saying that, I played SM3DW at the same friend's place and really quite enjoyed that. That was in four-player though, and I don't really feel all that bothered about buying myself a copy.

    Mario games haven't really been a system seller to me since SMW on SNES - I didn't even bother buying Mario 64 after playing it at another mate's place.

    What I want from Nintendo is a new Metroid. I'm even ok for Zelda at the moment, having played three in the last three months. I am kind of tempted by Donkey Kong though - I was in Game yesterday, and if they'd had it for £30 I might have made an impulse purchase.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 27 Feb 2014 01:39:40 12,418 posts
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    Personally, I have expressed regret about buying a Wii U before, but the truth is I'm satisfied. I'll do the majority of my gaming on PS4 and my aging PS3, but the Wii U has and will have games that I just can't get anywhere else.

    If they sort out their NNID stuff, I'll start buying e-shop games too.

    I don't quite trust Ninty to not shaft me though...
  • macmurphy 27 Feb 2014 03:56:08 2,588 posts
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    That VG bloke is definitely a sock, and quite a sad sock as he looks like a bloke intimately equated with the bones of contention likely to induce bile and vitriol that have littered the thread.

    I was quite impressed that the place did not go batshit, but it's true that the same arguments have been repeated so many times there is just no need to go over it again and everyone seems to know that.

    It's true about people saying that all three console makers are in precarious positions for different reasons. The Wii U is a flop, but the 3DS is doing fine and they should have another bite of the cherry owing to their balance sheet. Sony fucked the PS3 and lost loads of ground to Microsoft (and I'm not talking about how it ended up, but those first few years when it was overpriced, and went from having the industry champion in the PS2 to equal footing with Microsoft). And Microsoft after arguably producing the best console of the last generation go and fuck up all the goodwill by bundling this one with Kinect, impacting the price and the power.

    Sony seem to be romping this gen, and arguably with the simplest approach of the lot. Powerful console, no frills, a whole marketing campaign based around the gamers.

    Does anybody else think they could do a better job? I could never come out with the vision of the Wii and make those sales, or the DS and the blue sky thinking that gave us Brain Training or Nintendogs.

    At the same time Sony, why the fuck have you made your PS4 an inferior media player to the PS3? I have friends that won't upgrade because of this.

    Microsoft, what the fucking fuck is Kinect about? Yes it was a massive success and caught the zeitgeist but almost instantly everyone realised it was actually quite shit and there wasn't a single game that it made better. Building your next generation console around it was a gash idea.

    Nintendo, it's not fucking rocket science. The writing was on the wall even as you were printing money with the Wii's success. You pissed everyone off, there were no decent third party games, most of your best games on it suited a gamepad. Have a media drive, make your console as powerful as it's stablemates or you will get no third party support. Get a CEO, or whatever Iwata is, who does not freely admit to not have a clue what is going on outside of Japan.

    I know we are all armchair generals, but these are not comments based on hindsight. Sony seem to be nailing this gen by just not fucking up. They haven't done anything special. They have just made a games machine that can play games, and media if you want it.

    Anyone else think that they could run some of these companies better? I would definitely wager a testicle that I could market Nintendo better in this country. I have spoken to so many people that still do not know what a Wii U is. How is that even possible?

    I'm bored and it was either here or the 4am thread. I'm not a genius, I'm ferociously average in most departments (yeah, especially that one) but just by liking games and reading this forum I'm sure I could do a better job than some of the chumps that seem to have scaled the dizzy heights of the gaming industry.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 27 Feb 2014 05:12:33 12,418 posts
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    I guess that a lot of the problem for the execs is time and the board. It takes time to make a plan happen, and it takes time to okay it with the board. For a huge company with weak or fractured leadership, that would be a big problem I think.
  • Kami 27 Feb 2014 05:15:14 2,660 posts
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    @macmurphy; I'm not sure it's wholly the people at the top, although they ultimately have the most to lose. Nintendo seems to keep fighting with it's chairspeople; complacent individuals who are tied to tradition and antiquated novelties at a time when the industry and the market is trying to run further than ever before. Microsoft is fighting investors and executives who all want to see the company return to a more profitable, enterprise-driven model far away from the games industry which they see no money in (and considering the financial situations of many, you can't exactly blame them). Sony... well, Sony's biggest issue has and continues to be misplaced optimism. "It'll be better next year!" Except, it never is, and until they accept there's a fundamental problem underlying everything within the organisation as a whole, they will continue to be clinging on from complete bankruptcy by their fingernails alone. Sony are enjoying the fruits of a successful marketing campaign; but how long before the "For The Gamers" thing rings hollow through sheer lack of quality content?

    And it's not even just the console manufacturers; EA, UbiSoft, Capcom... hell, even Bethesda is taking a monumentally expensive gamble and it's becoming evidently clear that companies are struggling to keep up now that the financial expenditure underlying each game has increased so dramatically. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have that to contend with as well for their own studios.

    I think a big part of it is that once you scale that high up the corporate ladder, your sense of perspective is skewed. I'm reminded of when James May tried to max the Bugatti Veyron, and he remarked that he thought the car had slowed down enough to open the door before realising that he was still doing 50 miles an hour! It seems the brain sometimes can't quite keep up with change; or simply misses such important details, which is where mistakes invariably happen - you should see them, but you don't.

    I don't know if we could do better; it's always easy to see the mistakes from the outside looking in. Sony may be winning at the moment; but it's also seeing its studios shrink in size too, and one of it's major problems right now is that the SCE division isn't worth nearly as much as you'd think it was worth. Making studios smaller takes away value; and when you need to borrow money from it, and considering Sony's current level of financial risk, I'd say it was playing far from a safe game; more that it's so far managing to distract us (but then, I'm a suspicious person so it doesn't tend to work on me very well!).

    Microsoft... well, if the Double Helix thing hasn't been the swift and decisive kick in the balls it needed, we can look forward to the next arrangement to go south with them. And Nintendo - Nintendo needs to stop thinking long-term. Sow the seeds, but don't keep neglecting the few good relationships you do have. Communication is the key, and this is where Nintendo ALWAYS fall down; monthly instalments don't work anymore. We don't live in a world with monthly games magazines anymore; we live in a 24/7 media environment. Provide the news; or the news will be provided for you... whether you like it or not.

    Still, sometimes I would like to take on a project like turning Nintendo around. That said, I'd want complete access to every corner of the business and every single studio. I'd want to speak to people from every publisher and developer making Wii U games and sit them down for serious talks. I'd also tie up Reggie, Iwata AND Shigeru Miyamoto (sorry!) at E3 and take to the stage alone and just say, "Here's an hours worth of game reveals, enjoy!".

    I'd drive them completely potty. But then, you can't change a company like Nintendo without deliberately driving a wheelchair over some toes. I think Nintendo do need someone who isn't afraid of them to really make the changes; someone who will stand up and go, "I understand what you're saying but here's the thing; you're wrong, you're so wrong it is un-be-fucking-leivable!"

    That said, the same can be said for everyone. It's not the prettiest picture in the industry right now - and I worry this generation may suffer as a consequence of years of neglectful execs...

    Edited by Kami at 05:20:39 27-02-2014
  • Mola_Ram 27 Feb 2014 05:50:55 16,548 posts
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    This thread really needs some JTN right now.
  • macmurphy 27 Feb 2014 06:03:02 2,588 posts
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    Thanks for the big reply. You make some interesting points. I think one of the main points is the massive investment in big franchises. Games are so expensive to make that it is spoiling creativity, games design is coming via committee and companies are desperately sticking to tried and trusted formulas.

    You can make smaller indie games, but if they are not PC mods then they will be simplistic, shorter affairs. No one can really challenge the Battlefields and CODs, because any new shooter will be so inferior technically without the massive budget and support. And any big new project will have a massive team that grinds over the individual and creative aspects for being too risky. The truth is you can still make a great film on a small budget. You can make a great game on a small budget (Minecraft) but can you make a great football game or a great shooter? Or a great driving game? Who can really shake up these genres any more?

    I think Nintendo's greatest strength could also be their greatest problem, and that is their desire for simplicity. I think I mentioned in the thread that there was an interview with Myamoto years ago where he said he dreamed about a controller with one button. It was in Edge maybe. The Wii was a fulfillment of this desire for simplicity, for a machine everyone could play. Their whole hardware design seems to stem for this desire for simplicity, almost for purity. I know this is also the company that bought us analogue sticks and 3D screens, but if you had to pick a games that summed up Nintendo of late you would say Mariokart, Mario platformers, Mario Party, Pikmin, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Miiverse, the year of Luigi.

    Simplicity, nostalgia, family. A bastion of the basic and the communal, bright colours against the tide of muddy shooters. But this is a reductive narrative, because it ignores the Nintendo business that shamefully regurgitates it's back catalogue, that isolated all its old partners by refusing to share profits or seeming to create a gaming ecosystem that meant only first party games would be successful. I think the lack of a media drive is less of an issue these days in the world of downloads, but they stubbornly raised two fingers up for years at consumers that wanted the functionality. Online gaming? Fuck you. Graphical powerhouse? That's not what we do. Third party? Have you seen the new Mario. Adult titles? Oh no.

    They have just sat and watched the world move on with out them, fiddling while Rome burned. I think of Wenger's playing style for the last few years; magnificent but you are winning fuck all. Or Bosquet's comments on watching the charge of the light brigade. 'C'est magnifique, Mais ce n'est pas la guerre...'

    Edited by macmurphy at 06:17:27 27-02-2014
  • Kami 27 Feb 2014 06:50:05 2,660 posts
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    @macmurphy; Oh I am very critical of Nintendo; not that long ago I called out Nintendo's current methods here on EG, more on Virtual Console but it demonstrated a completely fundamental lack of focus on simplifying where it needs to happen.

    Nintendo modifies games for the Virtual Console; Iwata himself has pointed out that it takes time. Except - it shouldn't. I'm sorry, but did Nintendo just miss the last 10+ years worth of PC Emulation? ROM File, Emulator, done. There's no need to overcomplicate this to such a shocking extent! Why throw money at SNES ports when they should be done with the most minimal of expense? Get a framework that emulates the games with current features - this can't be beyond the talents of Nintendo if a ton of amateur coders can come up with similar solutions - and do good ROM-dumps. Nintendo could even have ROM files sold and self-contained through separate Virtual Console apps. And by making it so painfully simple, you reduce the risk for others - who might make more of their old content available for download!

    Simplifying is an art in itself, and I think Nintendo is over-thinking it to an excessive-compulsive degree. Mind you, I'd level the same criticism at Microsoft and the Kinect; learning a whole new set of commands and sign-language to get stuff done by the camera is not simplification. Simple means intuitive; it means something that makes sense, something that just works because it just does, you don't need to read between the lines. That's why the Wii Remote worked to such a degree; in many cases, it made sense. Wii Sports? Made sense. Mario Galaxy? Made sense. Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition? Made so much sense that it's rather ruined the franchise...

    I'd say Nintendo's problem is that it's trying to do a Madonna; Nintendo is known for innovation as much as Madonna is known for reinvention. But they've both been doing it since the 80's and they're getting on a little, and this time around it looks a little... well, weird. Like they just expected it to work, you know? They phone it in a little and we're left scratching out heads going, "Is this really what you're going to be doing for the next few years?"

    It might be time to stop pandering to the tweenie audience and grow up a bit; Madonna doesn't look sexy anymore, she looks desperate and needy. Your audience are now older - the average gamer is now well into their 30's. Do the job well, do the job RIGHT, and your appeal will be universal - from spotty teenager to old fart. You don't need to focus solely on a market owned by Nikki Minaj and Katy Perry (who will probably be forgotten in ten years); they're the people who have to prove their long-term worth, not someone who makes millions of dollars a year on royalties alone!

    Nintendo needs to focus on what got it here; solid games and quality software in an environment where build quality has been sorely lacking in a lot of ways of late. Let the buggy, badly-built games go elsewhere. Make ties with companies who CAN commit to a quality product. The rest of the market will either follow suit or suffer immeasurable damage - in some ways, as awful as it sounds, natural selection will take care of those not learning from the apathetic responses of late. Nintendo is the one company right now who has the money - and the presence - to actually turn around and call for change; it's done it once before, after all.

    But saying that, it may mean ignoring some gamers who call for Nintendo to get certain games on their console. And again - that's perfectly alright. But it's finding the middle ground between giving an audience everything to the point they'll never be sated, or nothing at all to the point of starvation.

    Nintendo needs to find equilibrium. And that is going to take time. And a few more slip-ups along the way...

    Edited by Kami at 06:59:29 27-02-2014
  • Armoured_Bear 27 Feb 2014 08:02:39 20,673 posts
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    Pinky_Floyd wrote:
    I actually think its better than either of the galaxy games, but thats just me.
    Nope, me too.
  • FatSternKikwi 27 Feb 2014 08:11:32 1,572 posts
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    Madness! :)

    It is pretty stellar though.
  • Armoured_Bear 27 Feb 2014 08:14:55 20,673 posts
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    There is this endless clamour for Nintendo to put their games on Mobile Phones, where the audience is, get the VC sorted etc.
    The VC situation is a disgrace but I think that NES/SNES titles won't sell in great numbers to casual gamers, they are used to buying similar games with far better graphics for a fraction of the price. Often the quality is far inferior but I just can't see the Virtual Console being that significant outside of gaming geeks.

    IMO Nintendo's biggest problem is their obsession with not doing what their competitors do, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face. No-one really wants their console to be identical to the other two but they can take the strengths of the other two and apply their own personality to it as well as their own unique strengths.
    Look at miiverse, online but different, totally Nintendo and great.

    Sadly I think it's too late for Nintendo to be a main player again in terms of home consoles. The situation with 3rd parties is too far gone and they show no signs of being ambitious enough to aggressively pursue significant exclusive development.

    I don't understand them, after the Wii U has been out for 16 months, AFAIK there are no EShop exclusive games from Nintendo apart from Dr. Luigi. WTF not?
  • Armoured_Bear 27 Feb 2014 08:15:34 20,673 posts
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    FatSternKikwi wrote:

    Madness! :)

    It is pretty stellar though.
    I think the premise and setting of Galaxy is better but in every other way SM3DW just edges it :-)
  • Deleted user 27 February 2014 08:30:09
    These people have to much time on their hands. Let's talk about games yay.
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