Game of Thrones (HBO TV SERIES) @ U.S. Pace - No Book Mentions or Discussion! Page 592

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  • Duffking 4 Sep 2017 12:55:25 14,855 posts
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    Seems a bit weird to retake the land from the usurpers legacy just so you can give it back to the usurpers son anyway straight afterward, though. I could maybe understand legitimising him and making him swear allegiance, but naming him heir or something would be weird.

    I doubt anyone has any Baratheon loyalty left anyway. Robert and Joffrey were shit kings both bearing the Baratheon name, Tommen less so due to Margaery's influence. Outside of that, all the Baratheon bannermen will be sworn to someone else now. Plus you're assuming that Gendry would even want to be in that sort of position anyway.

    The most likely outcome is that there won't be a "King" anymore if Dany wins and, she'll probably establish a Republic with a President/Emperor/Whatever, doing away with all the bastard/inheritance bullshit for once and for all. More in line with Dany's "breaking the wheel" rhetoric. If she does go down the continuing succession lines then she's just a bit of a moron really, conquering a nation knowing full well she'll cause a succession crisis as soon as she dies.

    Edited by Duffking at 12:56:48 04-09-2017
  • Rivuzu 4 Sep 2017 13:03:00 16,619 posts
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    Arya and the Faceless Men will take over Westeros. People will think Dany is the immortal queen, but it's just difference faceless people wearing her giant eyebrows year on year.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 4 Sep 2017 13:04:57 9,889 posts
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    Personally I don't think it'll be as tactical as all that. I envisage a bit of a battlefield dying situation where she just tells Gendry to look after the kid and the kingdom before croaking.

    At this point you have to ask yourself what the point of Gendry is from a narrative point of view. He's still alive for a reason. His claim to the thrown is there for a reason. He's a good bloke for a reason.

    I would be incredibly surprised if he didn't have a very significant role in the resolution of it all. He reminds me a bit of JGL in The Dark Knight Rises - there all the way through but not quite crucial enough to be a major factor, but enough invested for his eventual outcome to be meaningful.
  • Skirlasvoud 4 Sep 2017 13:04:59 2,940 posts
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    Rivuzu wrote:
    Arya and the Faceless Men will take over Westeros. People will think Dany is the immortal queen, but it's just difference faceless people wearing her giant eyebrows year on year.
    Would explain the mood swings. I like it!

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 13:05:18 04-09-2017
  • Supra_Hans 4 Sep 2017 14:51:17 93 posts
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    Duffking wrote:
    Seems a bit weird to retake the land from the usurpers legacy just so you can give it back to the usurpers son anyway straight afterward, though. I could maybe understand legitimising him and making him swear allegiance, but naming him heir or something would be weird.

    I doubt anyone has any Baratheon loyalty left anyway. Robert and Joffrey were shit kings both bearing the Baratheon name, Tommen less so due to Margaery's influence. Outside of that, all the Baratheon bannermen will be sworn to someone else now. Plus you're assuming that Gendry would even want to be in that sort of position anyway.

    The most likely outcome is that there won't be a "King" anymore if Dany wins and, she'll probably establish a Republic with a President/Emperor/Whatever, doing away with all the bastard/inheritance bullshit for once and for all. More in line with Dany's "breaking the wheel" rhetoric. If she does go down the continuing succession lines then she's just a bit of a moron really, conquering a nation knowing full well she'll cause a succession crisis as soon as she dies.
    I don't know if people thought Robert was a shit king? He ended the reign of 'the mad king' who burned the shit out of everyone. And he spent a lot of gold on hosting tournaments, hookers and various other extravagances which I suspect made him pretty popular. His reign was also pretty stable - aside from a bit of a barney with the iron islanders.

    Agreed Joffrey may have tarnished the perception of the name a bit, but there was a fairly widespread perception that he was not Robert's son - even if that remained rumour.
  • Duffking 4 Sep 2017 15:17:21 14,855 posts
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    Well, he did bankrupt the entire realm while he feasted and fucked himself senseless. Which would no doubt have fucked the smallfolk over. I guess he wasn't as bad as some others though, probably because he had a sensible hand.
  • Baihu1983 4 Sep 2017 15:54:45 9,330 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Personally I don't think it'll be as tactical as all that. I envisage a bit of a battlefield dying situation where she just tells Gendry to look after the kid and the kingdom before croaking.

    At this point you have to ask yourself what the point of Gendry is from a narrative point of view. He's still alive for a reason. His claim to the thrown is there for a reason. He's a good bloke for a reason.

    I would be incredibly surprised if he didn't have a very significant role in the resolution of it all. He reminds me a bit of JGL in The Dark Knight Rises - there all the way through but not quite crucial enough to be a major factor, but enough invested for his eventual outcome to be meaningful.
    No one else could run back to the wall that quickly...

    But no Jon can legitimise him like Stannis offered to do to him in s5
  • Dirtbox 4 Sep 2017 16:17:03 89,295 posts
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    Seems fairly straightforward to me, if it's anything like that it would be Gendry on the throne in the South with Jon and Danny reigning in the north.

    Not that I can see it playing out in that fashion, more likely Gendry will die in some shock horror omg he got killed manner.
  • Supra_Hans 4 Sep 2017 16:39:10 93 posts
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    Duffking wrote:
    Well, he did bankrupt the entire realm while he feasted and fucked himself senseless. Which would no doubt have fucked the smallfolk over. I guess he wasn't as bad as some others though, probably because he had a sensible hand.
    I don't think the smallfolk would ever give a shit as long as the good times kept rolling. He was throwing feasts and festivals - sure he was burning through money, but was being propped up by the Lannisters - probably bringing loads of people from all over the place gives a massive boost to the local economy - they all need somewhere to stay, something to eat, horses looked after etc etc. Jobs aplenty, and yes he was ceding more and more influence to Tywin Lannister, but if you're an everyday person, you probably thought of him as a fairly decent king - generous and garrulous, victorious in battle, physically powerful (at least in his youth).

    It was only really his advisors who were worrying about the funds - even Ned Stark didn't know until he was Hand, and then it became obvious that actually he was a pretty shit King. To those in the know, it was obvious he was fairly terrible, I reckon most other people loved him.
  • Rivuzu 4 Sep 2017 16:40:48 16,619 posts
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    It's all a bit... new Labour in the 90's.
  • Supra_Hans 4 Sep 2017 16:56:50 93 posts
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    Yeah, I was thinking that as I was writing it - nobody really cares where the money is coming from if they don't need to! At least, that's my take on it - I may be completely wrong, and all the inhabitants of King's Landing may be up in arms about the state of the royal finances, but we never really hear about it - so I assume as long as the guards, the army and the people who do all the actual work continue to get paid, they don't really think about it too hard.
  • DanB24 4 Sep 2017 17:07:04 5,445 posts
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    I dare say that the small folk only care about how much they're being taxed. Less is good. More is bad.
  • ubergine 4 Sep 2017 21:54:54 7,476 posts
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    The realm being in debt was a secret that comes out in series one. It's not like the general populace had any kind of news service giving updates on national debt vs gdp etc.
  • Salaman 5 Sep 2017 10:32:05 22,826 posts
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    Rivuzu wrote:
    Salaman wrote:
    Rivuzu wrote:
    Isn't Gendry, rather than Jon, still the legitimate heir though? Robert won the throne by conquest. Unless Jon (or Dany) does the same, doesn't that mean his eldest remaining male child is the heir?
    Bastards don't get a claim.
    Yet before Jon turned out to be a Targ, he had a claim to Winterfell and was dubbed King in the North. People thought he was a bastard.
    Well if all the bannermen want to gather around Gendry and shout "Your our king, we bend the knee!" I'm sure he kan be king regardless of who he is or where he came from. But I doesn't make him a legitimate heir. Jon wasn't a legitimate heir either but everyone thought it'd be a jolly good idea to name him "THE KING OF THE NORF!".

    Seems like the most convoluted theory to have Gendry on the throne in the end. If he does, it's not because he had the best claim.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 5 Sep 2017 10:37:19 9,889 posts
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    Salaman wrote:
    Seems like the most convoluted theory to have Gendry on the throne in the end. If he does, it's not because he had the best claim.
    It's just a theory but I think others are overthinking it. Jon and Dany's kid will be the effective ruler at the end. That seems incredibly obvious to me. I just suspect Gendry will play a role as well, imo as protector. The whole implications of how people will feel about it is probably moot as it won't be covered.
  • Skirlasvoud 5 Sep 2017 11:32:06 2,940 posts
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    ubergine wrote:
    The realm being in debt was a secret that comes out in series one. It's not like the general populace had any kind of news service giving updates on national debt vs gdp etc.
    Checking my stock ticker would've been the first thing I'd do if I were living in King's Landing TBH.

    Dragon eggs, up 5 points.
    Dragonglass, up 20.

    Cocks, gone down 10.
  • Skirlasvoud 5 Sep 2017 11:37:27 2,940 posts
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    ubergine wrote:
    I was referring to "All Men Must Die", not "All Women Must Babies".
    Though with both Dany and Cercei now possibly pregnant...

    Huh, huh?
  • blobs 5 Sep 2017 13:42:53 543 posts
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    I wonder if Sansa might end up the ruler, she's showing decent qualities as a leader finally and I can imagine her judgement over Cercei would be quite epic... and, it might tie in with the 'Cercei is done over by a younger queen/princess/leader/whatever, Prophecy'.

    I've no idea how any of that might come to pass though.
  • Skirlasvoud 5 Sep 2017 14:08:41 2,940 posts
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    blobs wrote:
    I wonder if Sansa might end up the ruler, she's showing decent qualities as a leader.
    I need to be reminded: What qualities are those?
  • Duffking 5 Sep 2017 14:31:30 14,855 posts
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    Nothing we've seen on screen, really. But they seem to be implying that she's doing a good job in between stuff we see, the Lords wishing she was in charge of the North over Jon etc.
  • Ra_ra_rasputin 5 Sep 2017 14:32:04 307 posts
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    Also - letting her sister slit the throat of little finger
  • You-can-call-me-kal 5 Sep 2017 14:34:31 9,889 posts
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    I suppose technically she won the Battle of the Bastards. That was solid diplomacy skills surround all that business. She’s probably actually done more to unite the North than Jon has
  • nickthegun 5 Sep 2017 14:41:51 71,913 posts
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    Don't forget the foreshadowing that she might turn out to be a bludclart.

    'you can't kill me. I'm part of you now!' isnt a throwaway line and she may well turn out to like having a super assassin at her disposal.
  • blobs 5 Sep 2017 18:55:59 543 posts
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    @Skirlasvoud All of the above, it seems
  • Skirlasvoud 5 Sep 2017 18:59:42 2,940 posts
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    Yeah, but letting someone else slit someone other's throat isn't the epitome of queenliness. Technically, Littlefinger pulled off the solid diplomacy skills. LF has done more to unite the North than Jon has.

    And all of that is offset by her being the world's slowest learner.
  • blobs 5 Sep 2017 19:05:36 543 posts
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    All the potential leaders have a weak and strong side it seems so, I don't think there's any less chance of her coming out on top.

    Anyway it was just a thought.
  • Mola_Ram 6 Sep 2017 04:47:14 16,334 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    I suppose technically she won the Battle of the Bastards. That was solid diplomacy skills surround all that business. She’s probably actually done more to unite the North than Jon has
    Nothing "technically" about it. Jon's idiocy would have gotten all his men killed, if not for Sansa. If I were Jon, I'd recognise that and give her the leadership role on a permanent basis. She's clearly better at it.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 04:47:48 06-09-2017
  • AaronTurner 6 Sep 2017 07:53:17 9,555 posts
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    Skirlasvoud wrote:
    blobs wrote:
    I wonder if Sansa might end up the ruler, she's showing decent qualities as a leader.
    I need to be reminded: What qualities are those?
    Her inability at acting gives her a brilliant poker face.
  • Mola_Ram 6 Sep 2017 08:17:41 16,334 posts
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    No, Sansa is great. More than anyone (at least, more than any other Stark) she understands the world as it really is, not as how she wants it to be.

    And in a world like the one in this show, where well-meaning but naive people get corrupted (see: Arya, who's a bit of a psychopath now, also Dany) or killed (see: just about every other member of the Stark family), that is a real strength. She earned this wisdom the hard way, but it's wisdom nonetheless.
  • nickthegun 6 Sep 2017 09:14:39 71,913 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    If I were Jon, I'd recognise that and give her the leadership role on a permanent basis. She's clearly better at it.
    No you wouldnt. One of the sub-morals of the show is that women are given nothing and if they want it, they have to take it by force.
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