DmC (Devil May Cry 5) Page 14

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  • JinTypeNoir 20 Jan 2013 09:29:53 4,383 posts
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    Dude, I know there's some sort of narrative going on at these forums that I am some anime-obsessed Japanophile who only loves all things Japanese and that I wasn't born and raised in Japan with a lot of access to Western culture which I idolized as a kid and realized as I grew up it wasn't healthy to love things unconditionally and unrealistically deify Western cultures and then grew to appreciate things my Asian upbringings more, which made me intolerate of people who did the opposite thing with my country, then joined the backlash when it became stylish to do so, because it is absolutely one of the worst forms of dickery to hate things because it is fashionable, but if you're going to use an insult that has no basis in reality, at least use a reference to past Devil May Cry games.

    Yes, in certain gaming spheres, it used to be de rigeur to admire Japanese culture and that was harmful to truthful criticism, but the opposite is just as bad.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 09:34:14 20-01-2013
  • CharlieStCloud 20 Jan 2013 09:35:27 5,202 posts
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    Mr. Jin, are you saying you would happily prefer to play something 'boring' like Devil May Cry 2, which put me right off the series after the superb original than the new one?

    I am actually playing the original on the HD Collection at the moment and it is still as good as I remember however, it was refreshing to see DmC, upon playing the demo, be set in a totally different environment and yet retains the combat we know and love.
  • JinTypeNoir 20 Jan 2013 09:41:21 4,383 posts
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    I didn't say I would prefer playing it. That response was on which is worst, and I consider offensive douchery worse than boring incompetence. If I had a choice and I'm glad I do, I don't want to play either, though I suppose I might try to see if I'm missing something a little while longer with this before I sell it.

    I would have preferred one of these two options:

    1) A straightforward sequel to 4 with one of the Japanese teams, or a Western team with more talent, better taste and a better grasp of how to propel the series forward.

    2) A wildly different sequel with either a good Japanese or Western team that went in a completely different direction than anything we were used to, but still wound up brilliant.
  • nickthegun 20 Jan 2013 09:44:33 59,525 posts
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    Your problem there is that dmc4 showed the japanese team had completely run out of ideas and if they had given it a really radical sequel, people would have freaked out even more than you are doing now.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
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  • King_Edward 20 Jan 2013 10:01:05 11,454 posts
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    I love DMC4. I see it like RE4 in a way. It shifted away from the Dante/Vergil bullshit and started with a whole fresh unrelated story, which was camp as fuck.

    However good or bad this is, I never felt the series needed rebooting.
  • JinTypeNoir 20 Jan 2013 10:28:11 4,383 posts
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    Plus Nero's Devil Bringer and Exceed moves were brilliant new dimensions to the combat than anything in this new one and the cutscenes were a great deal more fun and memorable than anything.

    It's really infuriating hearing people say Devil May Cry needed to be rebooted. The fourth one was the best selling game and it really couldn't be said that it was badly received. At the very worst, you could say it had mixed reviews, which would be the exact same as 3, which if you remember correctly, got torched quite a bit for its difficulty at the time.

    The plane truth is that between mega-sellers like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter and new franchise babies like Dragon's Dogma, Capcom just didn't have a team available to devote to a new Devil title at the time.
  • Aretak 20 Jan 2013 10:43:21 10,351 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    It's really infuriating hearing people say Devil May Cry needed to be rebooted. The fourth one was the best selling game
    It's equally infuriating when people use DMC4's sales as a reason to say that it shouldn't have been. DMC4 sold 190k more copies than the original, despite being released on three platforms and coming out after the franchise had had seven years to build up a fanbase. That is not a success, especially when 2 and 3 sold far less than the original in-between.

    Personally, I don't think DmC is going to be the game which does turn the franchise into the sales juggernaut that Capcom want it to be, but the idea that they shouldn't have tried because DMC4 was such a hit is just so far wide of the mark.
  • harriselhoff 20 Jan 2013 11:17:54 152 posts
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    I don't think I'm hardcore or cool enough to dislike this game, so I'll just carry on playing and enjoying it.
  • khaz 20 Jan 2013 13:49:39 2,783 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    I love DMC4. I see it like RE4 in a way. It shifted away from the Dante/Vergil bullshit and started with a whole fresh unrelated story, which was camp as fuck.

    However good or bad this is, I never felt the series needed rebooting.
    And frankly, dmc4 had the best combat system and by far the most balanced.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 20 Jan 2013 14:07:43 37,886 posts
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    Discussing whether or not it needed rebooting is pointless. The fact of the matter is the series was rebooted, it's very good and there was no chance of a "proper" DMC5. It just wouldn't have ever been made.

    Does DmC detract from the series, from the previous games? Does DmC cause the other games to somehow spontaneously blink out of existence? Nope.

    Well then, we're good.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • King_Edward 20 Jan 2013 14:11:33 11,454 posts
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    Never said it did. Someone said DMC4 was out of ideas, and just didn't think that was true.
  • Feanor 20 Jan 2013 14:23:24 14,148 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Your problem there is that dmc4 showed the japanese team had completely run out of ideas and if they had given it a really radical sequel, people would have freaked out even more than you are doing now.
    Unluckily for Capcom their big idea was too make an action RPG that would take 4 years and tons of money to produce, but barely sell more than a million copies in its first five months.

    http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html
  • Feanor 20 Jan 2013 14:30:25 14,148 posts
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    Aretak wrote:
    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    It's really infuriating hearing people say Devil May Cry needed to be rebooted. The fourth one was the best selling game
    It's equally infuriating when people use DMC4's sales as a reason to say that it shouldn't have been. DMC4 sold 190k more copies than the original, despite being released on three platforms and coming out after the franchise had had seven years to build up a fanbase. That is not a success, especially when 2 and 3 sold far less than the original in-between.
    DMC 4's 2.6 million sales don't include PC sales and it sold double what the previous game in the series did despite the PS2's user base in early 2005 being higher than the combined user PS3/360 base in early 2008. Sales-wise, it was a huge return to form for the franchise. Capcom only expects DmC to sell 2 million, and time will tell how accurate that estimate was.

    And unless Dragon's Dogma had some amazing resurgence six months after it came out, it only sold half as much as DMC 4 despite having far more time and resources pumped into it.

    Finally, DMC 4's MetaCritic average is two points lower than DmC despite being lucky enough that Rev3's 3/5 review is still not on there. If it got mixed reviews, then so did DmC.

    Edited by Feanor at 14:34:56 20-01-2013
  • King_Edward 20 Jan 2013 15:11:08 11,454 posts
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    It's not not competing with itself though. God of War 3 sold over 5 million. Eventually that's where Capcom want DMC to be, and they obviously don't see it happening with a Japanese dev.
  • Aretak 20 Jan 2013 15:17:04 10,351 posts
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    Feanor wrote:
    DMC 4's 2.6 million sales don't include PC sales and it sold double what the previous game in the series did despite the PS2's user base in early 2005 being higher than the combined user PS3/360 base in early 2008. Sales-wise, it was a huge return to form for the franchise.
    That's entirely irrelevant to the point of whether the series needed to be rebooted though. It was a return to form relative to the hugely disappointing sales of previous games within the same series. I'm not sure that's quite the achievement you're suggesting it is. It's still a pitiful amount compared to most other major franchises out there, and clearly Capcom want more.

    You can argue all day about whether it's right that every publisher looks at Call of Duty's sales and thinks that every game can sell like it does, but the fact is that they do, and taking that into account the argument that DMC4's sales were a reason not to reboot the franchise is still a nonsense.
  • Feanor 20 Jan 2013 15:50:41 14,148 posts
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    Actually, the latest version of a long running series being the best selling in its history is very clearly relevant when it comes to whether the series needs rebooting. Because publishers exist to sell games to make their owners money. If Tomb Raider Underworld was the highest selling TR Eidos would not have been in such a hurry to remake it from the ground up.

    Capcom want more you say, so they came up with a new series that sold half as much as the previous game made by their internal team, and a reboot they expect to sell less than the last version of the original DMC series. If 2.6m is pitiful then what are the 1.2m sales of Dragon's Dogma and the expected 2m sales of DmC? Pathetic? Embarrassing?

    What's nonsensical here is the idea that a reboot of DMC could ever push it anywhere near COD or other major franchises in terms of sales.
  • RockyMotion 21 Jan 2013 01:01:09 2,738 posts
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    Can anyone tell me if it's possible to switch off the rating at the upper right corner of the screen? I think the big capital letters and ink splashes flashing every 5 seconds are a little distracting.

    Also, how long does it take to finish the story mode? If it's another 5 hour game I'd rather wait until it gets cheaper.
  • Syrette 21 Jan 2013 01:11:35 43,352 posts
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    No you can't disable them. I don't find them distracting myself. The combat is so visceral that my eyes focus on that.. Maybe they look like they might be in videos or whatever but I wouldn't say they are in game. That's just me though.

    I reckon you're looking at a good 8 hours to finish it, maybe more if you do the secret missions, or less if you rush through it on Human (easy) difficulty.

  • Syrette 21 Jan 2013 01:13:02 43,352 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    Dude, I know there's some sort of narrative going on at these forums that I am some anime-obsessed Japanophile who only loves all things Japanese and that I wasn't born and raised in Japan with a lot of access to Western culture which I idolized as a kid and realized as I grew up it wasn't healthy to love things unconditionally and unrealistically deify Western cultures and then grew to appreciate things my Asian upbringings more, which made me intolerate of people who did the opposite thing with my country, then joined the backlash when it became stylish to do so, because it is absolutely one of the worst forms of dickery to hate things because it is fashionable, but if you're going to use an insult that has no basis in reality, at least use a reference to past Devil May Cry games.
    That's one impressively long sentence right there. Try saying that out loud.

  • RockyMotion 21 Jan 2013 01:32:53 2,738 posts
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    That's a shame. I subscribe to the notion that HUDs should be as simple and minimalistic as possible.

    So, about 8 hours then. I was hoping the game's duration would be closer to Castlevania: Lords of Shadow than Bayonetta. I'll have to think about this a while longer before making a decision.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 21 Jan 2013 01:47:33 25,653 posts
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    My savegame stated 11 hours for my first play through.
  • FuzzyDuck 21 Jan 2013 04:03:38 4,032 posts
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    I clocked about 9.5 hours on Nephilim difficulty for it.
  • Deleted user 21 January 2013 07:04:19
    Derblington wrote:
    khaz wrote:
    Ninja Theory game. I called it several pages ago.
    You're a genius!
    Take note, right here: The Last of Us... Naughty Dog game. I'm calling it.
    The Last of Us - now there's a game I really want to play!
  • JinTypeNoir 21 Jan 2013 08:49:56 4,383 posts
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    Feanor wrote:
    Actually, the latest version of a long running series being the best selling in its history is very clearly relevant when it comes to whether the series needs rebooting. Because publishers exist to sell games to make their owners money. If Tomb Raider Underworld was the highest selling TR Eidos would not have been in such a hurry to remake it from the ground up.

    Capcom want more you say, so they came up with a new series that sold half as much as the previous game made by their internal team, and a reboot they expect to sell less than the last version of the original DMC series. If 2.6m is pitiful then what are the 1.2m sales of Dragon's Dogma and the expected 2m sales of DmC? Pathetic? Embarrassing?

    What's nonsensical here is the idea that a reboot of DMC could ever push it anywhere near COD or other major franchises in terms of sales.
    Quite well said, on another level, Devil May Cry didn't need a creative reboot either, especially since this new one -- crazily rewritten premise and idea aside -- doesn't do anything especially creative that would be that far-fetched in the original series. I feel like if you are going to reboot something, you have to be more daring than this. The whole problem with DmC vs. DMC is that it is like a sycophantic monkey copying the original series in a douchier way and if Capcom doesn't think that will even lead to better sales, then it begs the question, "Why?" (Which is also a question I asked myself when I got to that line that went like, "You'll make the word your bitch and me too." and then thought of all the reviews I've read that call this game's story better than the other games.)

    Though on the point of Dragon's Dogma, even though the game didn't do nearly as well as it hoped, it was and is a bigger than the original Monster Hunter, which is food for thought. Dragon's Dogma's story as a lucrative new franchise for Capcom isn't finished yet. Especially because I think you can say the game was pretty well received, so it has a good image going forward.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 08:53:33 21-01-2013
  • Dave_McCoy 21 Jan 2013 11:17:19 2,774 posts
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    Haters gonna hate! :-P

    I was unsure of this game but now wish I'd bought instead of rented it. It's really that good and deserves more than one play through. The first playthough is just getting used to it. Son of Spada mode ups the combat and is much harder.

    I like how it's getting good reviews generally from the critics but all the internet are practically frothing at the mouth. Calm down, don't like it, don't play it...or rather don't pretend you've played it and slag it off. I have played DMC1 and 4 and to be honest, the Rebellion and gunplay at least, it doesn't feel that much different.
  • Ultrasoundwave 21 Jan 2013 11:23:54 3,282 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    Feanor wrote:
    Actually, the latest version of a long running series being the best selling in its history is very clearly relevant when it comes to whether the series needs rebooting. Because publishers exist to sell games to make their owners money. If Tomb Raider Underworld was the highest selling TR Eidos would not have been in such a hurry to remake it from the ground up.

    Capcom want more you say, so they came up with a new series that sold half as much as the previous game made by their internal team, and a reboot they expect to sell less than the last version of the original DMC series. If 2.6m is pitiful then what are the 1.2m sales of Dragon's Dogma and the expected 2m sales of DmC? Pathetic? Embarrassing?

    What's nonsensical here is the idea that a reboot of DMC could ever push it anywhere near COD or other major franchises in terms of sales.
    Quite well said, on another level, Devil May Cry didn't need a creative reboot either, especially since this new one -- crazily rewritten premise and idea aside -- doesn't do anything especially creative that would be that far-fetched in the original series. I feel like if you are going to reboot something, you have to be more daring than this. The whole problem with DmC vs. DMC is that it is like a sycophantic monkey copying the original series in a douchier way and if Capcom doesn't think that will even lead to better sales, then it begs the question, "Why?" (Which is also a question I asked myself when I got to that line that went like, "You'll make the word your bitch and me too." and then thought of all the reviews I've read that call this game's story better than the other games.)
    With DmC, i think the main theory to authorising the reboot was to attract people new to the series AND get the DmC fans to buy it.

    For example, i have never played a previous DmC game. I could pick up DmC4 for the 360 but i wouldnt have a clue whats going on.

    At least with this reboot, i have no reservations about giving it a go at some point.

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • King_Edward 21 Jan 2013 12:48:05 11,454 posts
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    That's usually the theory, but it rarely, if ever, works out. Even RE4 and FFXII managed to piss off a portion of there fanbase. It's a shame, as it is a good game, but this was always going to struggle to turn fans around. Probably one of the few games that would've been better off as a new IP.

    FYI, DMC4 is unconnected to other DMCs in any meaningful way. If you like this you should play it, as like many have said, they're not that different.
  • Murbal 21 Jan 2013 13:39:29 22,092 posts
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    Giant Bomb made a great point - it's not like there was a 'proper' DMC 5 waiting to be made. It was this or nothing.
  • Deckard1 21 Jan 2013 13:40:47 27,770 posts
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    IRONOMANS head has just actually folded in on itself.

    Hush you ponce

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