Wikileaks Page 4

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  • KTM 6 Apr 2010 12:25:15 1,674 posts
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    The intensive six-hour operation began at 6 a.m., when 240 U.S. soldiers in 65 Humvees, several Bradley Fighting Vehicles and two Apache attack helicopters descended on the al-Amin neighborhood, along with a dozen Iraqi troops, in response to increasing attacks on American soldiers by members of the Mahdi Army, the Shiite militia loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

    This is your reason for it not being a good idea to openly carry weapons in this area and why there are no other people in the area other than our unfortunate civilian friends.

    During the fighting, an Apache helicopter fired bursts of 30mm rounds toward several people who had been directing machine-gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades at U.S. soldiers. The helicopter also fired on a silver Toyota minivan in the area as several people approached the vehicle, soldiers said.

    This is a misrepresentation of the truth though.

    The Apache crew fired because militants "were endangering the stability of Iraq" and because they had positive identification that the militants "had weapons and were using them against coalition and Iraqi security forces," said Maj. Brent Cummings, the battalion's executive officer. "No innocent civilians were killed on our part deliberately. We took great pains to prevent that. I know that two children were hurt, and we did everything we could to help them. I don't know how the children were hurt."

    This sounds that as far as the head honchos were concerned they accept what their pilots said and that was the end of the matter.
  • mal 6 Apr 2010 12:26:03 22,582 posts
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    Ah, I hadn't seen that, ta. I note there hasn't been an official reponse to this leak yet, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation now. We're really only discussing interpretations now.

    I note the story has fallen off the front page and even the middle east section of the bbc news (world) site - which is a shame as the claims made in that video are very bold and need refuting, but the powers that be might be worried about bumping the news story up the agenda again now.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Lukey__b 6 Apr 2010 12:27:17 3,716 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    The intensive six-hour operation began at 6 a.m., when 240 U.S. soldiers in 65 Humvees, several Bradley Fighting Vehicles and two Apache attack helicopters descended on the al-Amin neighborhood, along with a dozen Iraqi troops, in response to increasing attacks on American soldiers by members of the Mahdi Army, the Shiite militia loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

    No WMDs. That’s why these guys shouldn’t have been there and why our civilian friends should have.

    'Sup, what's guanine?

  • KTM 6 Apr 2010 12:29:42 1,674 posts
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    One reason why we should have been there.
  • Retroid Moderator 6 Apr 2010 12:31:11 44,799 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    That van is identified at the beginning of the full length video. I think the whole situation isn't as clear cut as it presented to be.
    They were journos out on assignment. They probably arrived in that van.

    Also: I'm sure they could only ever be taking photos of insurgents, not civilians, locations or damage caused by fighting.
  • Lukey__b 6 Apr 2010 12:36:03 3,716 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    One reason why we should have been there.

    Did we not have a war in the meantime that could have sorted that out?

    'Sup, what's guanine?

  • Retroid Moderator 6 Apr 2010 12:37:07 44,799 posts
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    Bloodkult wrote:
    The van belonged to a local civilian who was taking his two small children to lessons, the kids are sitting in the front seat.
    That'll teach him to be a good samaritan.
  • dose 6 Apr 2010 13:29:35 42 posts
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    Post deleted
  • SirScratchalot 6 Apr 2010 13:38:48 7,874 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    One reason why we should have been there.

    You remember the first gulf war, right?
    You know the previous one?
    Where the whole premise for invasion wasn't made up?
  • mal 6 Apr 2010 13:42:55 22,582 posts
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    Ha ha! I hadn't been checking those links :)

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • sirtacos 6 Apr 2010 13:45:15 7,280 posts
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    KTM wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    One reason why we should have been there.

    Seriously? Are you seriously advocating world policing? I've agreed with a lot of what you've said thus far, but that's just ridiculous. Should we invade every country that has seen state-sponsored atrocities?

    Besides, if our governments really were motivated by altruism, they would have said something at the time other than "Uh - Iran did it."
  • urban 6 Apr 2010 13:46:31 10,945 posts
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    watched the wikileak video last night, wow...American forces in iraq haven't looked much right than right now.

    the bit when saheed the driver started running and the pilot said to the gunner "god damn it kyle" because he missed then kyle replied "okay hahah, got him."

    fucked up stuff.
  • Khanivor 6 Apr 2010 15:50:11 40,808 posts
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    Maybe people find it harder and harder to get interested in what the Americans did three years ago, especially when some Iraqis seem to continue to be hellbent on carrying out atrocities which make killings like those in the video seem like a children's party.

    It's also possible that the news media are aware of more of the context and realise that it's a story that isn't going to gain much traction.

  • Khanivor 6 Apr 2010 16:51:09 40,808 posts
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    Bloodkult wrote:
    The American public aren't interested because it's just some more dead brown people on the other side of the world.

    Yeah, that will be why the story I linked was on the front page of the Sunday NYT. The American people tend to be rather interested, believe it or not, although it's undeniable ennui has set in after close to seven years of war.

    *edit - more than ; having realised the date.

    Bloodkult wrote:
    Still, I'd love to know this mysterious "context" for firing upon non-combatants trying to rescue the wounded and dying whilst a whoopin' and a hollarin' from the safety of your gunship.

    Having never been in combat I can't comment with authority on the way people react but I think there is a rash naivety in people's judgement of the communications between the soldiers involved.
  • Demikaze 6 Apr 2010 17:02:07 6,698 posts
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    I sort of agree with that. I mean, they're soldiers with a job to do. They simply can't sit there and reflect solemnly on what they're doing. The whooping and the hollering may be a way of coping with the situation. Turn it into a light exercise, make it seem like much less than what it really is. Sounds like a way of mentally handling it.

    I'm not talking about the event itself, just about the dialogue between the soldiers.
  • sirtacos 6 Apr 2010 17:09:28 7,280 posts
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    Yeah, true. But combine that with the horrific context and it's difficult not to be disgusted by their remarks. But that's because we know what they didn't at the time. And also because we don't operate in an environment where death is common and part of the job, as you've said.

    I don't think anyone is saying that soldiers should sound like Charlie Sheen voiceovers in a Vietnam film... "Man, that's horrible. What have we done. What about this poor man's family? War is hell." "Nice shot though, Mike." "Thanks." "But you're a terrible human being." "I know. I feel dead inside."
    ...nor should they sound like Darth Vader after every kill. "NNNOOOOOOOO"
  • FWB 6 Apr 2010 17:25:34 44,594 posts
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    Just watched this. Arseholes. But what do you expect? The army trains them to kill and that's what they want to do.
  • wizbob 6 Apr 2010 17:32:41 779 posts
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    Is this what America's Army teaches people? Camping? Spamming with rockets? For shame. And let the other guys have the gunships once in a while.

    It's a bit eery how they manage to refrain from racial insults and calling them 'fags'. It's like they've grown out of capture the flag.
  • meggsy 26 Jul 2010 01:11:50 1,628 posts
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    Wikileaks have dropped the big'un:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/afghanistan-the-war-logs
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/war-logs.html
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,708314,00.html

    3DS: 3454-0647-5991

  • mwtb 26 Jul 2010 01:39:37 2,381 posts
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    I think sound engineers need to come up with a special Julian Assange setting on their equipment if he's going to be interviewed regularly.
  • Retroid Moderator 26 Jul 2010 01:41:02 44,799 posts
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    I'm sure the US military have been entirely truthful and have nothing to fear.
  • Bill-Gates-is-Evil 26 Jul 2010 01:47:10 8,934 posts
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    I actually doubt anything significant will come out of those 90,000 documents. All the interesting shit is done by the CIA, and that's not part of this.
  • dnbuk 26 Jul 2010 01:50:58 4,950 posts
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    Good that it's come out, but only an idiot wouldn't know most of this stuff goes on.

    Maybe the people blinded by all this "Soldier's are heroes" stuff might take a look.
  • SpaceDave3000 26 Jul 2010 02:35:01 78,221 posts
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    dnbuk wrote:
    Good that it's come out, but only America wouldn't know most of this stuff goes on.
    Got that for you.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • SpaceDave3000 26 Jul 2010 03:36:43 78,221 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    I actually doubt anything significant will come out of those 90,000 documents. All the interesting shit is done by the CIA, and that's not part of this.
    I guess you didn't read it, they've got the CIA paramilitary stuff in there as well.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • yupyup 26 Jul 2010 05:47:37 3,682 posts
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    Bill Gates is Evil wrote:
    I actually doubt anything significant will come out of those 90,000 documents. All the interesting shit is done by the CIA, and that's not part of this.

    Dumb ignorant yank in dumb ignorant yank shocker.

    Hands Off Our Penises

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