WAR bans gold sellers "like crazy"

By Oli Welsh Published 23 September, 2008

Jacobs doesn't hold back on "pond scum".

One thing Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning doesn't lack is vocal front men at its developer Mythic Entertainment. Chief executive Mark Jacobs has used his first blog post since the game launched last week to lay into his pet hate: gold sellers.

Jacobs revealed that Mythic's "zero tolerance policy" had resulted in the bannings of roughly 400 gold sellers by Saturday night, just two days into the game's life. "We don't wait and let them stay in the game and ban them en-masse, my guys ban their useless, time-consuming butts right away," he said.

Jacobs has even extended his personal crusade against the gold sellers to the virtual equivalent of public executions - the public ban message.

"Players on our Phoenix Throne server have been treated to special messages when a gold seller/spammer is banned... Messages like 'Tchar'zanek has ordered the slaughter of [Spammer] and all others of his kind who weaken the Raven Host by providing wealth and power to the unworthy' have been seen all weekend," he said. "We will continue this policy and expand it to the other servers."

He also notes that gold selling organisations - "lowlifes like IGE" - have attempted to buy him off in the past. "I've been offered 'a piece of the action' both personally and corporately in the past if I will either turn a blind eye or help them in their actions... My answer was and always will remain the same: Go to hell."

Although the majority of MMO operators oppose gold selling within their games, it has proved impossible to stamp out in most - and a silent majority of high-level players of games like World of Warcraft use gold selling services to ease the grind and in-game expense of raiding. Will Jacobs succeed in stamping out the practice in WAR - and should he even be trying?

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (65) Latest comment 4 years ago

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  • Skurmedel #1 4 years ago

    Can I still prostitute my avatar to cyber-sexaholics?

  • Kill_Crazy #2 4 years ago

    If you're that sad, to cheat at a game in this way, then you deserve to be ripped off.

  • OnlyMe #3 4 years ago

    I just don't understand how a person can get any satisfaction from taking shortcuts like these.

  • wattoo #4 4 years ago

    "virtual equivalent of public executions - the public ban message. "

    Sod that! How about going the whole hog?

    Virtual public executions.

    I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to have the gold sellers avatars trooping out of some prison to get executed in a public square.

    Death to the gold sellers!!

  • Xerx3s #5 4 years ago

    Wouldn't it be even more brilliant if they would just make it possible to put a permanent astronomical bounty on their heads so they keep getting killed over and over again? Or maybe l00t their corpses.

  • Gnort #6 4 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    If they put a permanent huge bounty on their heads, wouldn't you get people farming the gold farmers?

  • Eraysor #7 4 years ago

    I like the idea of the message, but they could make it truly awesome if they actually turned it into an execution or something.

    I'm more than happy to see the gold farmers being dealt with swiftly. Damn spammers!

  • Kill_Crazy #8 4 years ago

    +1 to the ingame execution. Could have a raffle to decide the Executioner.

  • PlugMonkey #9 4 years ago

    Good on him, I say. I particularly like the public execution messages.

  • anomagnus #10 4 years ago

    to be honest, gold sellers will have a hard time in that game anyway

    the way the econmy is set up, so far, you dont need gold

    shit, i bought my first mount for 15 g, which i got from questing. There are no massive gold sinks.

  • Charroux #11 4 years ago

    "I just don't understand how a person can get any satisfaction from taking shortcuts like these."

    Many people are comparatively cash-rich and time-poor. Given the choice between, say, spending days gathering gold in WoW for an epic flying mount, or paying £30 for the same... Well I've not done it myself, but I can see why someone might consider that an acceptable trade-off.

  • SleepyMagpie #12 4 years ago

    I was one of those not too enthused about WAR in it's current state, but I REALLY LIKE Jacob's attitudes and actions in the gold seller department

    Kill 'em all!

    Note to self: Check in with WAR a couple of months down the line..

  • Benno #13 4 years ago

    I was eyeing up the gold prices. About £6 for 10 gold if i remember rightly.

    I have no desire to buy any though, I am making awesome coin as it is.

  • kangarootoo #14 4 years ago

    "If you're that sad, to cheat at a game in this way, then you deserve to be ripped off. "

    "I just don't understand how a person can get any satisfaction from taking shortcuts like these."

    This isn't legitimate gamers cheating to get more gold, this is companies building up resources in the game world, which they can sell on in the real world, for actual money.


    On the subject of putting bounties on the heads of gold farmers, I think getting players involved in your in-game administration in that way would be a TOTAL f*ck up waiting to happen.

    People en masse are too damn stupid to trust with such a task. You would end up with imbeciles griefing the wrong players because they didn't read their name properly and all sort of other witch-hunt mass hysteria bollox.

  • Dizzy #15 4 years ago

    "I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to have the gold sellers avatars trooping out of some prison to get executed in a public square. "

    Altdorf has a public execution place. Just add the goldsellers there on random days of the week ;)

  • Charroux #16 4 years ago

    "People en masse are too damn stupid to trust with such a task."

    This would be funny, if it wasn't so depressingly true :)

  • 4thVariety #17 4 years ago

    The amount of goldsellers they are going to have to fight is directly related to how much of the game they bury under requirements asking players only to spend time to get the necessary items. People don't expect to replay a Mario level 20 times until the loot required for level 1_2 drops so that they can move on. In MMOs it's common practice to hide content behind a curtain made from timesinks that require no skill and only endurance.

  • InfiniteFury #18 4 years ago

    "In MMOs it's common practice to hide content behind a curtain made from timesinks that require no skill and only endurance."

    And yet strangely it's very much a desired rewardable curtain and the reason most people play MMOs. It's the answer of how to balance this curtain on the curtain-rails of frustration that remains elusive.

  • orakio #19 4 years ago

    Ban buyers instead of sellers.
    Problem solved.

  • Monkey_Puncher #20 4 years ago

    That would be amazing, public executions in the town square. Even if they go offline in an attempt to avoid it their avator should be tied up in the town square to advertise the execution. Then everyone could get together to watch the gold sellers have their heads cut off.

  • bigbadbeasty #21 4 years ago

    "Ban buyers instead of sellers.
    Problem solved"

    Hardly. There are far more buyers than sellers. As most MMO publishers struggled to deal with the sellers, how on earth can they deal with the millions of buyers?

  • 4thVariety #22 4 years ago

    @infinite fury
    And yet strangely it's very much a desired rewardable curtain and the reason most people play MMOs. It's the answer of how to balance this curtain on the curtain-rails of frustration that remains elusive.

    If most people really wanted it, then goldsellers would have no market. Obviously perspectives on that issue differ. The recent initial sales figures of MMOs and their respective long term subscriptions also show another trend. People might just play an MMO like every other game. Go in, have some fun, get the storyline, go buy another game. Having too high a time/reward ratio will drive people away too. Especially when the MMOs themselves are not too refined as games and rely too heavily on socializing and grinding as possible entertainment.

  • Gurgeh #23 4 years ago

    If you buy gold in MMOs and are wondering about the kind of people you are giving your real world $$$ to, just wiki Brock Pierce and Marc Collins-Rector, and ponder the consequences.

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Pierce
    ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Pierce
    [/link]

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Collins-Rector
    ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Collin...[/link]

  • OnlyMe #24 4 years ago

    Just make all income gold soulbound, like items you get from quests. You can use them to buy stuff via the auction house, but not give away money, borrow money, sell money etc. It would also get rid of all the newbie "I need money! Give me some money! Can I have some money?" players.

    Just make it so that you can only transfer money to characters on the same account, like your alternative characters.

  • Charroux #25 4 years ago

    @Gurgeh "...and ponder the consequences..."

    Oh come on. So IGE is owned by some deeply unpleasant people. I hope you've never bought (or smoked) anything illegal, or any of the really cheap high street clothes, or any other item that may have directly or indirectly have benefited someone dodgy.

  • iokthemonkey #26 4 years ago

    I just don't understand how a person can get any satisfaction from taking shortcuts like these.

    ----

    Somebody in LOTRO was complaining the other day about how he "had to play to level up" and wanted somebody to help him with it. Fair enough if you're stuck on a quest and need help to continue through the game, but the whole power-levelling thing is beyond me. It's like watching a movie on fast-foward... And these are the people who get to end-game without a clue as to what aggro is or how to tank, then complain that the game is too hard.

    Surely the whole point of MMOs is to level-up your character, earn your money, learn to play, pay your dues, etc, etc. Or am I just an old fart with a proper work ethic and eeh-by-gum, it weren't like that in my day.

  • Dizzy #27 4 years ago

    > hope you've never bought (or smoked) anything illegal

    Errr???? We are talking pedophiles here... not joints.

  • Rirekon #28 4 years ago

    Good old Mythic, keep fighting the good fight!

  • sneetch #29 4 years ago

    @Charroux
    "Many people are comparatively cash-rich and time-poor. Given the choice between, say, spending days gathering gold in WoW for an epic flying mount, or paying £30 for the same... Well I've not done it myself, but I can see why someone might consider that an acceptable trade-off."

    +1 to that. In WoW I recently (as in last week) levelled my druid alt to 70 with a friend of mine, I had saved the 5k for swift flight on the way up and on my main. However when we got to 70 he had about 2.5k, I logged in the next night and he had an epic gryphon. To be honest, I was initially more than a little pissed; I'd "worked" for my swift flying and he hadn't, I "deserved" mine and he didn't, but I got over it pretty swiftly. His point was the exact same as yours, he had the choice of spending weeks grinding gold or paying someone to do the same, freeing him to do what he wanted to do with his limited in-game time. He chose the latter. I say fair enough but I still hate gold sellers.

    @wattoo
    "I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to have the gold sellers avatars trooping out of some prison to get executed in a public square."

    That would be awesome, gruesome public execution and "Kmeplyxes" head on a pike. :)

  • sneetch #30 4 years ago

    @orakio
    "Ban buyers instead of sellers.
    Problem solved."

    Hmmm... a choice between banning tens of thousands of paying customers, losing out on those monthly subscriptions, or a few dozen gold spammers? Tough choice.

    I'd imagine that few MMOs would be willing to ban you for buying gold, they'd seize the gold and anything you bought with it yeah, maybe a temporary suspension but no-one wants to lose customers.

  • Zamn10210 #31 4 years ago

    "and a silent majority of high-level players of games like World of Warcraft use gold selling services to ease the grind and in-game expense of raiding."

    Sorry, don't believe a word of it, I can only speak for WoW the there is no way a 'majority' of people buying gold. I know dozens of people in-game pretty well and most of them are either dirt-poor or mad money-grinders. I've only met about 3 people ever who I know buy gold.

  • shinki #32 4 years ago

    It should teleport them into the middle of an RvR and turn them into a chicken.

  • bigbadbeasty #33 4 years ago

    "Sorry, don't believe a word of it, I can only speak for WoW the there is no way a 'majority' of people buying gold"

    I dunno about that. I think it is more common than you would imagine. I know a lot of WoW players, and plenty have bought gold. Maybe it is not the majortiy, but I reckon it will be a considerable percentage.

    You also have to bear in mind that it is considered a faux par to 'cheat' the system, so most buyers keep quiet. Lets face it you are hardly going to speak about buying gold in the guild channel, knowing that Blizzard can review the chat logs.

  • login_name #34 4 years ago

    It's not like gold is that hard to come by in WoW. It's got to be the easiest and quickest MMO to earn money in. Just doing half your dailies gives about 170g and can be completed in 1-2 hours, hardly a problem for the time starved. Combine that with harvesting rock/flowers/skins, quest rewards, selling loot, playing the auctions etc...money comes thick and fast.

    Buying gold is cheating and lazy, pure and simple. The excuse of not having enough time just doesn't cut it in WoW. If you don't have the time to play the game, then don't play.

  • iokthemonkey #35 4 years ago

    Buying gold is cheating and lazy, pure and simple. The excuse of not having enough time just doesn't cut it in WoW. If you don't have the time to play the game, then don't play.

    ----

    And remember it's a viscious circle - WoW's economy is bust due to the high influx of gold, a lot of which I'd imagine is because of people buying it from farmers. So the item that was 10g on the AH is now 80g. So how do you get that extra gold? You buy it! The only people who benefit from that are the gold farmers. I know some people might argue, "Oh but if *I* want to buy some gold, why shouldn't I? It doesn't effect you!" yet clearly it effects the whole game.

    As I say, I don't get this whole "jump the line" mentality. Why even bother playing the game if you're not going to put the time into it?

  • knightmt #36 4 years ago

    I do not know how you move items between players, but maybe this is the key to controlling it. Those people do not sound good, looked at wiki.

  • InfiniteFury #37 4 years ago

    @4thVariety

    "It's the answer of how to balance this curtain on the curtain-rails of frustration that remains elusive. "

    My point being the balance and the degree of unattainability is the important thing. People want to get somewhere and work for it, but it's the question of how much time/effort it takes that makes for the sweet spot.

    Apologies if it wasn't clear from my elaborated curtain metaphor :-)

  • kangarootoo #38 4 years ago

    @Zamn10210

    "I know dozens of people in-game pretty well and most of them are either dirt-poor or mad money-grinders. I've only met about 3 people ever who I know buy gold."

    Regardless of whether a majority of players buy gold (they probably don't), I'm pretty sure WoW has rather more than "dozens" of players so your anecdotal evidence is (like all anecdotal evidence) pretty unreliable. And also, what makes you think that the players you have met would openly tell you if they DID buy gold? Seems to me to be something most gold buying players would keep under wraps, so as not to be labelled a cheat.

  • kangarootoo #39 4 years ago

    @Dizzy

    "Errr???? We are talking pedophiles here... not joints."

    Well the analogy would be, we are talking about pedophiles here, not drug dealers. I think the point Charroux was making was that just because we can identify a couple of bad people that make money from gold buying, it doesn't mean that there aren't countless other bad unamed bad people making money from the other things we are happy to do.

    That said, Charroux's point was also a strawman argument. All we can really be sure of is that bad people make money from unregulated activities, be that selling illegal drugs or buying gold.

    So perhaps the question is, if gold buying were accepted and regulated and that meant that bad people couldn't profit from it... would that be more important than in-game "fairness"? I think it would take a pretty staunch WoW player to suggest that in-game fairness was more important than keeping money out of the pockets of pedophiles.

  • kangarootoo #40 4 years ago

    @InfiniteFury

    You make a very good point. If gold selling is rife, because there are legions of players prepared to buy gold, that suggests in good ol' game design user feedback type terms that simply playing the game as designed is simply not quite fun enough.

    And indeed that players are actually prepared to PAY MORE to make it more fun.

    You would think the developers would want some of that "paying more" action.

  • anomagnus #41 4 years ago

    right, flat out, i've used gold sellers, many times.

    I also KNOW, for a fact, as i've watched them do it, several people from a fairly high profile guild, do the same

    i'm lucky enough to have enough disposable income this isnt a consideration

    Now, you're asking, whyare you doing that?

    Firstly, i did enjoy WoW. But i hated, with a passion, how UTTERLY lazy blizzard is. They do not create content. They create sinks. Time sinks, money sinks, reputation sinks, pvp sinks, sinks, sinks, and more sinks.

    I ground out my 5k for my first flying mount, i did it again for my second character and the third, and there was no fucking way in hell i was doing it for alts 4, 5, 6. Why the fuck should i prop up their flawed system 3 more times?

    People sit around going 'oh gold sellers are fuckers'. Here's the truth, very plane, and very simple. There are fundamental flaws in the system when people feel this is their only resort.

    Far from being used by noobs and first times, i believe that the vast majority of gold buyers are long term players, and high level, multi alt players.

    Edited by anomagnus at 23/09/08 @ 13:37

  • Malixu #42 4 years ago

    For all the people saying "What's the challenge in buying your way up?", what's a challenge to you is a wall to me. Personally, I solve this by cancelling my subscription and finding something else to do with my life, some people decide they want to find another way around. I don't agree, mostly because gold sellers are a bunch of spammers who almost certainly source a lot of gold by stealing it, but...

    Point is, maybe MMOs have too many time sinks. Or maybe there needs to be a "lite" server. So far, Warhammer Online seems a hell of a lot better for this; I've only had time to get one character up to level 7 (leaving a scattering of level 3-4 characters in their wake), but so far I'm not finding any serious lack of cash, and frankly I can log in, do a quest, and feel I've done something. Oh, and the low level content is actually quite fun, whereas with WoW it feels like most of the game is just slowing you down from getting to the core content of the raids.

    If you can pour 30-40 hours a week into a MMO and blast through content in no time, fine. I can average 5-10 hours a week. I don't find doing the same mindless task for hours on end fun, I find it tedious, or more to the point I go find something else to do. I've never understood why developers don't have different paced servers for people with different play speeds.

  • a8a #43 4 years ago

    Personally, I don't think it's a silent majority from my own experience.

    @anomagnus
    What Blizzard have *successfully* created is an online world where money has value. In order to do this, there must be desirable expensive items to GIVE money value. Oh, and if money is *too* easy to get, it's exactly the same problem.

    In WoW, as in the real world, there are rich and poor people. There are clever people when it comes to making money, and there are grinders. And there are people who can't be bothered with the effort. However, in the real world, there is no magical handouts from on high (let's not get started on religion...), and nor should there be in WoW.

    It's not a case of propping up a flawed system - this is the game you chose to play. If you want instant gratification, play an FPS.

  • curtlikesmeat #44 4 years ago

    I don't mind the gold sellers in WoW too much as if you're not in a PVE guild you don't really need much gold - all I use it for is alts etc. Never been fussed with the epic flying mount as my char mostly just sits in Orgrimmar joining BGs etc.

    I have bought gold, and received a 72 hour ban, but only because it was something like £1.09 for 100g and I wanted to try it out. Gold spammers are annoying though and I think public executions or player bounties on them is a great idea. Basically I'm not bothered either way.

  • iokthemonkey #45 4 years ago

    Point is, maybe MMOs have too many time sinks.

    ----

    One man's time sink is another's content.

    You could say that playing a beat 'em up is boring because you have to fight all those other guys before you get to beat the boss and "win."

    The thing is, though, I play MMOs a lot. In terms of the numbers. Yet I play no more in terms of time invested than somebody would playing an offline/single player game. Yet despite that, I don't find myself thinking, "Oh it's too hard to make money." I find myself instead thinking, "Okay, so I need to go make some money. How can I do that?"

  • bigbadbeasty #46 4 years ago

    "What Blizzard have *successfully* created is an online world where money has value. In order to do this, there must be desirable expensive items to GIVE money value. Oh, and if money is *too* easy to get, it's exactly the same problem."

    People aren't buying money, they are buying time. Perhaps time they do not have, or perhaps time they do not wish to burn. The problem would soon be solved if it wasn't for the fact that WoW is almost completely item based.

  • InfiniteFury #47 4 years ago

    "I have bought gold, and received a 72 hour ban, but only because it was something like £1.09 for 100g and I wanted to try it out"

    Interesting - do you mind saying when this happened? To the best of my knowledge Blizzard have always refrained from targetting buyers, preferring to ban at source. Just curious as it's a bold step they've previously shied from.

  • iokthemonkey #48 4 years ago

    The problem would soon be solved if it wasn't for the fact that WoW is almost completely item based.

    ----

    I'm sorry but I disagree. Take two players with the same items and different levels of experience (in terms of play-time not the in-game value of Experience Points) and you'll see a difference. You can always spot E-bay account characters, as the player simply doesn't know how to play properly, doesn't understand group dynamics and so on.

    So yes, the game is geared (heh!) toward the acquisition of loot and items but loot and items aren't the be-all and end-all of the game. Just because it's not about twitchy responses and reflexes, it doesn't mean there's a lack of skill in the game and an unskilled player - regardless of his or her inventory of items - won't fare as well as an experienced or skilled player.

  • Krun #49 4 years ago

    These virtual economies "create" gold from thin air from creature drops, so all the MMORPG's suffer from money grown on monsters, and when money grows on monsters you get people farming monsters.

    I wonder what would happen if gold was a limited resource, with a fairly static amount in the world. Then gold would not be so easily farmed, and would not drop of monsters, unless they were actually involved in the economy some how. For instance where the hell does a boar get a gold coin from I ask you? Well in the real would he doesn't! What about those bandits on the road, sure, they must get gold, but only if they steal if off players to start with, so unless those bandits have actually killed some players and stolen their stuff the gold should not be created.

  • login_name #50 4 years ago

    I ground out my 5k for my first flying mount, i did it again for my second character and the third, and there was no fucking way in hell i was doing it for alts 4, 5, 6. Why the fuck should i prop up their flawed system 3 more times?

    Can't be that flawed if you were motivated enough to create 6 characters. To answer your question, you don't have to "prop up their flawed system", you can simply choose to not play something that you find no enjoyment from.

    People sit around going 'oh gold sellers are fuckers'. Here's the truth, very plane, and very simple. There are fundamental flaws in the system when people feel this is their only resort.

    Gold sellers are fuckers. Not just for selling gold, but also for hacking accounts time and time again to both advertise and farm for gold. Anyone who buys from these people are supporting this. So, because you're too lazy to make the money the "hard" way (I use that term very lightly since it's almost too easy), other people have to suffer constant spam in chat/tells and risk having their account hacked. Not too mention the economy goes tits up because there is too much cash floating around.

    Only resort? Are you kidding me? I've never played a game that had so many money trees you can harvest from. The flaw is with you. You made the 6 characters, not Blizzard. Sounds like you managed fine with the first 3, maybe you should have stopped there. You can't expect the developer to break the system just because you're bored the 4th, 5th or 6th time through.

    Put simply, there is no reasonable excuse for buying gold. I don't care how many alts you have, it's lazy and cheating.

  • Zelos #51 4 years ago

    Surely if you're cash-rich and time-poor, you wouldn't play an MMORPG? Why spend money on gold when you could just buy another game that you don't find so boring with the money?

  • iokthemonkey #52 4 years ago

    Here's the thing, I really don't understand why people insist that MMOs are time-sinks and will take over your life. Sure, if you're into high-end stuff like raiding, yeah, you might be tied-up for a few hours with that. It might take you best part of an afternoon/evening to get it going and finish the instance. But it's no worse than any other game. I know people who've spent all night staying up playing off-line games but then criticise ME for playing an MMO and then claim "I don't have the time to play an MMO." Yeah, because you're spending all your time playing another game!

    You can have limited time to play but still enjoy the game. That's kind of the point - play your own way, find your own route, play at your own pace. Anybody picking up an MMO and thinking TEH WIN is about reaching the highest level is missing the point.

  • Embattle #53 4 years ago

    While not a fan of Gold sellers there was one reason they exist, simply that people in the west are considered to be money rich but time poor.

    However at the same time it is nice to see quite a pro active attempt to stop gold sellers but in the end it'll be no different than most of the others, gold sellers will find a way to do their business.
    Edited by Embattle at 23/09/08 @ 16:36

  • iokthemonkey #54 4 years ago

    While not a fan of Gold sellers there was one reason they exist, simply that people in the west are considered to be money rich but time poor.

    ---

    Again though, how can anybody be "time poor?" You play at your own pace. A lot of gamers seem to come to MMOs and think the purpose is to just get to the highest level. It's not. The point is to build your character, explore, have fun. It's like somebody saying that they only have 15 minutes before they go out, so they'll put on a DVD and skip to the last chapter. I mean, if you see the end you've seen the entire movie, right?

    I don't understand this mentality of rushing through to "the end..."

  • PodlingJuice #55 4 years ago

    I bought a gold necklace for my mum for her birthday in Tunisia last week. It was only a few minutes after I walked out of the market when I realised I'd been ROYALLY RIPPED OFF. Foreign currencies and my brain do not mix.

    FUCK GOLD SELLERS.

    /doesn't get MMOs

  • sneetch #56 4 years ago

    @iokthemonkey
    "Again though, how can anybody be "time poor?" You play at your own pace. A lot of gamers seem to come to MMOs and think the purpose is to just get to the highest level. It's not. The point is to build your character, explore, have fun. "

    Try having a newborn baby (like my friend) and see how much time you have left for games. :)

    A lot of people have very limited time to play games and as you said the point is to have fun, is grinding out a few grand fun? Is pootling about at level 40 when everyone you know is 70 fun? What's fun for you isn't fun for everyone. Your route isn't for everyone.

    Now back to the gold thing, getting gold for the swift flying was fine for me, indeed satisfying but then my trades allowed me to do it with relative ease but is that fun for everyone? Take my friend with the baby, for example, he transferred his character to play on my server because he wanted to play WoW with me and a couple of other guys on the server (RL friends, now scattered about the place) now, his basic philosophy towards gaming in general can be summed up as "we're all getting busier and busier at this stage in life with less and less free time, the important thing these days is not so much the game it's who we're playing with". He wanted to do the swift flight form quests with me, it's easier and it requires a group but I honestly believe that he didn't want to hold me back (nor flying slowly about at 160% while I fly loops around him at 380% speed).

    For him the journey to 70 was less fun than getting there allowing him to have fun with his friends, different people different philosophies. As you say yourself "play your own way, find your own route" for some that is to get to the end game as quickly as possible to start raiding or heroic runs or hair braiding contests, are those people somehow missing something? No, not really, it's their way, it's just different than yours.

    Edit: damn my English is getting worse by the day.

    Edited by sneetch at 23/09/08 @ 18:12

  • AOFanboi #57 4 years ago

    The weirdest thing was when I retried ArchLord recently, being free to play etc. You see, they make money from effectively selling boosting items for cash (microtransaction stuff). So the first thing I noticed after logging in, after the annoying interface, was two "gold sellers" spamming the chat box over and over again. I quit and uninstalled after less than a minute - I spent longer downloading the client than playing the game...

    Good thing Mythic won't stand that crap in WAR.

  • Lemming81 #58 4 years ago

    *applauds*

    Bravo, Mr. Jacobs.

    Regardless, I can't think of a game that needs gold sellers less. I've got to rank 9 and money hasn't even been an issue.

  • MaxiSleep #59 4 years ago

    WoW has a big imbalance in gold generation and spending. Unfortunately Blizz have chosen to put in large once off charges (like epic mounts) to try and siphon money from the environment. this is plainly dumb since it only happens at a few occasions in a toons career. Making some crafting so unbalanced from a mats gathering points of view also does not help since it drives demand for "shortcuts". (compare alchemy/herb at one end to Mining/blacksmithing to see what I mean)

    I do like WaRs approach so far (only lvl 10mind) where there are multiple avenues to acquiring gear from solo friendly PQs to PVP rep rewards. Interesting to see how the end game stuff works when compared to this.

  • Vandrius #60 4 years ago

    Good approach, death to the gold sellers.

    Side-note: WAR is awesome.

  • Crovax20 #61 4 years ago

    I am still trying to find the gold sink in WAR... I don't think there is, I'm literally not having to buy anything but some skills and the occasional renown reward.

    No gold sink = the best way to get rid of gold sellers, after all if people have enuff gold then why buy gold?

  • spammage #62 4 years ago

    They really need to have something of an economy in there first, Dark Ages of Warhammer has more pressing issues than gold sellers, like being around after Lich King drops in November. Making their game MUST PLAY is more important than a bunch of chinese gold farmers. Having said that, a subscription is a subscription..........

  • iokthemonkey #63 4 years ago

    A lot of people have very limited time to play games and as you said the point is to have fun, is grinding out a few grand fun? Is pootling about at level 40 when everyone you know is 70 fun? What's fun for you isn't fun for everyone. Your route isn't for everyone.

    ----

    Oh I know all about that. I work full-time and am out of the house for 12 hours every day, so I appreciate that. But that said, it's possible to play an MMO and have a life. Like your friend's example - if he's level 40 and his friends are level 70, then make the decision not to try to play with them. Find others of your level and group with them. After all, a PUG member is just an addfriend you don't know yet... ;)

    What people don't understand though is that gold sellers destroy the economy and that effects EVERY player in the game. I returned to WoW after a few of months of inactivity and discovered that my quite reasonable bank balance had been devalued to about a tenth of what it had been worth previously. In other words, an item on the AH that had been, say, 10 g was now going for 100 g, simply as there was so much cash floating about in the economy. Granted, people raiding and twinking lower-level toons is an influence, but the influx of bought gold is also to blame, as the economy had been relatively stable until that point and no amount of raiding could be responsible for such an upheaval.

  • curtlikesmeat #64 4 years ago

    @InfiniteFury

    It was about 12 months ago I think.

  • Kafkaesque #65 4 years ago

    "No gold sink = the best way to get rid of gold sellers, after all if people have enuff gold then why buy gold? "

    Agreed. We were just commenting on this on WAR the other night. I got my mount at 20 for 15g and had 15g left over, 2 levels later and I'm at 30g again. The only things I've needed money for so far have been flights (25s max), respecs (1g ish) and renown gear (30s or so). I know that will go up but at 40s or so per quest in tier 3, money's just not an object even for people grinding RvR, which means there no reason to have gold sellers. Good job!

    I suppose it's a reflection of the focus of the game really. They said it was designed to be a quick jaunt to the experience level cap (40) so people can focus on the tier 4 end game areas, I wouldn't go that far but I've been able to focus on doing quests, public quests, scenarios and open PvP without having to grind for money once so far. Coming from FFXI that's an absolute god send. If you want to see an economy crippled first by inflation from gil sellers then deflation when the ban hammer came out, look no further. You can't wait to see what affect sellers have on a game - it's bad, deal with it straight away.

    Anyhoo Warhammer - great game :)