The MMO industry is sick - Cryptic

By Oli Welsh Published 22 February, 2008

Emmert blames WOW, naturally.

At a GDC panel on the future of the MMOs yesterday, Jack Emmert, chief creative officer of Cryptic Studios, claimed that "the industry is sick".

Emmert blamed the questionable health of the MMO business on the runaway success of World of Warcraft, pointing out that Lord of the Rings Online is the only MMO released after WOW to break the 100,000 subscriber mark. In a friendly dig at Blizzard's senior vice president of game design Rob Pardo, sitting on the same panel, he said that other MMO developers had essentially "worked QA for you, Rob".

Cryptic recently suffered the cancellation of its Marvel Universe Online joint project with Microsoft, with Microsoft's Shane Kim noting that only one subscription-based MMO - i.e. WOW - was succeeding at present. Cryptic has since decided to go it alone with another superhero MMO, Champions Online.

At the same panel, Nexon's Min Kim agreed that developers trying to steal WOW's users would lose. But he contended that his company had found great success and a growing market by producing simple free-to-play games supported by micro-transactions, such as Maple Story and Kart Rider. However, Emmert doesn't like micro-transactions one bit, saying "they make me want to die".

Ray Muzyka, CEO of BioWare - whose secret, in-development MMO is the subject of much speculation at the moment - was also present at the discussion, but he managed not to let any details of his game slip, despite some needling from Emmert. Well done, Ray.

Read a transcript of the panel discussion over at Massively.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (26) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • SeesThroughAll #1 4 years ago

    Somebody is pissed over their Marvel Universe MMO getting canned...

  • Benno #2 4 years ago

    yeah lol

  • dionfyre #3 4 years ago

    Developers need to stop trying to cash in on mmo and actually put some effort in imo. The Marvel MMO just reeked of massive cash-in and got what it deserved ( I do love Marvel and would have loved it to succeed if it had the backing it deserved)

  • mingster #4 4 years ago

    make a mmo that you don't have to grind and you will clean up

  • mikeck #5 4 years ago

    I had to stop playing WOW after two months, it was sucking away at my life (bloody good fun though), but I think the only MMO that looks like it could have a chance is WAR...but it'll take a while to garner the success of WOW. That's also not taking into account what's it like, whilst I'm really excited about this game, is it any good, not all beta reports seem to have been that good...
    Edited by 1 at 22/02/08 @ 12:50

  • Gaol #6 4 years ago

    If people make some decent MMOs then it'd be less sick. WoW was the first one to do basic things right, bug free and polished. That's not all there is to it, but there's way too many badly made ones about.

  • Gaol #7 4 years ago

    @arbiter

    I think everyone goes through the novelty of 'first mmorpg' which is when its at its most addictive. After the first one I found them no more or less addictive than normal games; in fact in most cases less so because you can see the futility of achieving stuff in these games. Only sandbox/pvp based mmorpgs hold my attention for very long these days.

  • skillian #8 4 years ago

    So maybe the easy money in the MMO business really isn't so bloody easy and you actually need to design some proper games for it.

    Absolutely. Just because WoW is some serious competition doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the genre.

    It like saying the search industry is sick because Google are so bloody good at it.

  • Dafridge #9 4 years ago

    There is a reason why WOW is so successful. It follows the same concept that allowed Msoft to beat Apple and the Ipod to sell more than the Zen. you have an average product that is designed to be accessible to everyone even to non gamers despite offering a weaker experience than its competitors WoW is easier to use therefore attracts more players which in turn makes it more playable.

    Don't get me wrong though I love WoW
    Level 28 Blood elf Priest
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

    Wanna see a good MMO check out APB its gonna be a completely different gaming experience.

  • Ponsonby #10 4 years ago

    @arbiter

    What a good point you make there. Problem is I guess is that the business model for a MMO is that people keep playing it, having all the really good content only exposed after you have invested months of your life is the carrot I guess that is dangled to make you keep playing in the first place, even if you have to grind/quest/go to STV for 10 levels etc.
    I have played quite a number of MMOs over the years and WOW was the most fun but the most addictive and in the end I managed to get away and now am reticent to play another one as I fear I will once again go the same way!

    Anyway,good points well made.

  • paulf #11 4 years ago

    i recently kicked the wow habit after over 2 years of playing, in the end it became more like a job than a game, daily quests grinds for materials etc really wasnt any fun anymore. COD4 online was a big factor too :)

  • mingster #12 4 years ago

    exactly a new-era mmo needs to have little to no grind but give the player fun things to do all the time and new things drip fed to them to keep them hooked rather than getting them addicted to gaining levels you get addicted to wanting new content which is more fun and less socially draining.

  • Velios #13 4 years ago

    EVE Online has WAY more than 100k subscribers, they passed that milestone a few years ago.

  • Velios #14 4 years ago

    [By Arbiter]

    I think the real truth is that the experience of getting seriously into a MMORPG is something that most sane, sensible people don't want to repeat. For a great many people its an incredibly addictive thing that consumes all their leisure time and drags them out of the real world. Thing is people do get bored and pissed off, and the penny drops that spending all your time in a virtual world does impact the quality of your real-life.

    All of which acts as a massive disincentive to get into yet another MMORPG ("I just got my life back, why the hell do I want to enslave myself to another stupid game";), but leaves the temptation always there to go back to the virtual world (and all the relationships, politics, etc) they are so familiar with.

    Quoted for truth.

  • bigbadbeasty #15 4 years ago

    I think people like the grind. It is just balancing it. A WoW player who plays casually does not need to worry about grind, they can just quest and level up as they see fit.

    The true grind kicks in at lvl 70 raids or at high-end professions, where you have to do the same thing again and again. Some people seem to like this.

    What WoW does well is getting this balance right, so it becomes a different game depending upon the user. To make a subscription game that is viable, is has to have some level of grind, people want to have an achievement from it.

    Also WoW is in no way skill based, it is all about the items you have. This makes me hate the game sometimes, but it does mean that anyone can play the game, and do fairly well.

  • kangarootoo #16 4 years ago

    Micro transactions make him "want to die"?

    Drama.
    Queen.

  • Chaser #17 4 years ago

    Life is a grind - why exactly do we all work 9-5 all week to get those little "gold" coins so we can spend them having fun on "good" content? Its why WoW works.

  • MightyMouse #18 4 years ago

    No offence, but you work to earn a living. If everyone could happily get by on doing far less work then I'm sure most people would (or would do something more interesting but less well paid). WoW is something you do in your free time, is something that is not productive and the only real reason to play it is if it's fun. I totally fail to see how WoW succeeds because people have to work in real life.

  • TSYNDMonkfish #19 4 years ago

    "Microsoft's Shane Kim noting that only one subscription-based MMO - i.e. WOW - was succeeding at present. "

    Total rubbish...

  • mikeck #20 4 years ago

    quoted from bigbadbeasty - [I think people like the grind. It is just balancing it. A WoW player who plays casually does not need to worry about grind, they can just quest and level up as they see fit.

    The true grind kicks in at lvl 70 raids or at high-end professions, where you have to do the same thing again and again. Some people seem to like this.

    What WoW does well is getting this balance right, so it becomes a different game depending upon the user. To make a subscription game that is viable, is has to have some level of grind, people want to have an achievement from it.

    Also WoW is in no way skill based, it is all about the items you have. This makes me hate the game sometimes, but it does mean that anyone can play the game, and do fairly well.]

    It is all about balance, I played WOW for actually more than two months now that I think about it, and I got up to lvl 68 with my prot warrior, some days I didn't play at all, some for an hour or two, others for a full seven or eight hours across the day, however at times it did feel like a full time job. I want to play an MMO that allows you to not feel like you're missing out, but also allows you to level in a way that feels intuitive and not forced (no more 'shit I'm falling behind I need to catch up').

    In regards to skill, I agree with you, but many others wouldn't. I really felt this playing as a 'tank' because it's all about holding aggro and keeping all threat aimed in your direction...fuck up as a 'tank' (or healer) and it's like the world is over sometimes. Overpowered items were however part of the charm, get an 'uber' item and let that do some of the work :)

  • UncleLou #21 4 years ago

    EVE Online has WAY more than 100k subscribers, they passed that milestone a few years ago.

    EVE wasn't released after WoW though.

  • Grayvern #22 4 years ago

    I despise MMORPG grind i played around 14 hours total on world of warcraft before i got bored and switched to another game. Yes the art style was amazing but it never drew me in.

  • Canyarion #23 4 years ago

    I quit WoW more than a year ago and I don't plan on ever playing another MMO again. If I do start again, I will continue in WoW.

    Like many here have said, WoW is just a bloody good game. Sure, it can get repetitive, but it's not half as bad as other MMORPGs.

    Stop whining if you can't beat WoW. Make other games that do make money.


    "It becomes a different game depending upon the user."

    QFT. I hated leveling but loved raiding. A lot of casual gamers play it for the social aspect. There are many roleplaying chances, there's PvP, there's cybertourism... So much to do.
    Edited by 2 at 22/02/08 @ 21:43

  • VMerken #24 4 years ago

    Waahh boohoo wahh.

  • Bumadan #25 4 years ago

    Lots of interesting comments in this thread...

    I agree with a lot of the thing Mikeck said. When you get to 70 the whole game changes to a grindfest meaning that when you get to 70 and you dont grind faction/money/equipment you will just be left behind. And thats because as Mikeck also says WoW is very low on the skill requirements. It wouldnt surprise me if a monkey could be taught to play WoW well enough that human co-players couldnt tell the difference.

    Another thing thats bothering me is that people look at WoW like the ultimate success....so maybe they have somewhere between 5-10 million active customers...i bet that number could be very much higher if they changed their strategy. For all the friends I know that play WoW now I know atleast 4 times as many that are not playing because they fear its too timeconsuming.

    WoW more and more seems like the lowest common denominator to me.

  • SpeedyThing #26 4 years ago

    Maybe if people stopped trying to just clone WOW in a different universe they might have more chance of getting a foothold. There are many very successful MMOs that do things differently. In fact, if you look at the top 10 most played (can't find link at the moment), you'll see Runescape, Kart Rider, Maple Story etc.