TGS: Sony confirms DualShock 3

By Patrick Garratt Published 20 September, 2007

Being shown on nine titles.

Sony Computer Entertainment president Kaz Hirai has announced the Dualshock 3 controller for PlayStation 3 in his keynote Tokyo Game Show speech this morning, confirming that it will include vibration features and that nine titles on the event's showfloor - including Metal Gear Solid 4 and Devil May Cry 4 - will feature full support.

"We have not made any changes to its outward appearance and design, but it does have vibration," said Hirai. The much-rumoured peripheral will launch in Japan in November this year. American and European gamers will have to wait until spring 2008.

Specific dates and pricing information will be announced "at a later date," said the Sony boss. He added that user feedback had led them to bring rumble to the PS3 pad. Vibration was famously left out of the machine's launch controller as Sony believed it was too difficult to include it.

"We have been able to overcome this difficulty," said Hirai.

The inclusion of rumble in Dualshock 3 will delight many PS3 owners and will serve to quell existing functionality differences between the Sony machine and Xbox 360.

We'll have all the rest of TGS's new throughout the day, so don't go changing.

Picture of Patrick.

About Patrick Garratt

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Comments (94) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • EDDS #1 4 years ago

    about freaking time

  • Kami #2 4 years ago

    Didn't see this coming.

    In other news, I need my eyes tested.

  • jynxce #3 4 years ago

    Wow, so they're accepting of "last gen" tech, I see. The flip-flopping is classic...

  • Beano #4 4 years ago

    Why the delay till spring 2008 for this in US/EU?

    Doesn't make sense...

  • smelly #5 4 years ago

    "We have been able to overcome this difficulty," said Hirai.


    Is it too much to ask that they just tell the truth and say "we've sorted out the legal dispute now"?

  • 3william56 #6 4 years ago

    EDDS +1

    Beano - it's the localisation. Takes ages to translate all that text into Euro languages you know. :/

    Happy it's finally coming. A bit miffed that it's going to take so long - presume Aus will be lumped in with Europe. Oh well - Imports ahoy!

    Wonder if we'll get a price cut in the existing version until stocks sell out?

  • Eraser #7 4 years ago

    so i assume this controller won't be motion sensitive then?

  • optimusprym8 #8 4 years ago

    it needs to be localised :D

  • Beano #9 4 years ago

    Kotaku has a list of games that will support the DS3:

    [link url=http://kotaku.com/ga ming/tgs07/the-list-of-ps3-games-that-support-the-dualshock- 3-301734.php
    ]http://ko taku.com/gaming/tgs07/the-list-...[/link]

    Strange that Sega Rally is not on the list, maybe just a matter of time.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 07:29

  • Blerk #10 4 years ago

    About bloody time.

  • Daymare #11 4 years ago

    "We have been able to overcome this difficulty."

    Genuine LOL.

  • sharpfish #12 4 years ago

    ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    freaks. Typical they have to put spin on it to suit them. Watch all those PS3 fanboys who previously said rumble wasn't important getting dizzy about the new pad.

    For my part i'm glad they have actually sorted it out as It's another small improvement that may eventually enable me to buy a ps3 (if there are ever any decent games on it and a decent price).

    Lack of rumble was a joke and the whole world (except ps3 fanboys) knew it. :)

  • mkreku #13 4 years ago

    I'm mostly a PC gamer and trust me, a lack of rumble has never bothered me. I really have no idea why people make such a big deal out of a function only dildos ought to have. I absolutely hate when my controller rumbles away from me and I have to chase it all over my living room floor.

  • DonnieDarko333 #14 4 years ago

    Isn't Europe and USA the people who demanded rumble anyway? and we have to wait till next spring?!
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 08:35

  • BartonFink #15 4 years ago

    but but but Sony you said it was unpossible to have both ... it's a miracle!!!

  • rashes #16 4 years ago

    Next Spring..?? Well I won't be interested in a PS3 till then so :-)

  • belziah #17 4 years ago

    What is it with Sony? They can never just announce shit and have it ready. Thats the real joke. Its been the worst kept secret of the year and they're still not ready.

  • Verwandlung #18 4 years ago

    People still care about the ps3?

  • BadBoyBonner #19 4 years ago

    Players accustomed to the rumble functionality for nearly ten years were outraged when Sony dropped the feature. So has the company had second thoughts about the decision to ditch rumble?

    “None whatsoever,” Harrison tells us firmly. “Not at all.”

    For more Harrison classics on the matter give it a Google.

  • BadBoyBonner #20 4 years ago

    Here is my take on the matter.

    SONY HAVE SHAFTED EVERY SINGLE PS3 PURCHASER

    They could have easily settled prior to PS3’s launch but did they? No.

    So you have to ask yourself the question, Why didn’t they get the house in order?

    ANSWER

    Because they most certainly did not want to.

    REASON

    Because if they wait until enough PS3’s and PS3 pads have been sold without rumble and make sure that games (like MGS 4) make extensive use of the rumble, what will happen?

    W**KERS

    That’s right, everyone who loves SONY has effectively been blatantly conned into paying off the $90.7 million dollar lawsuit Sony settled with Immersion. Now while this may make good business sense short term, I can’t help but feel that SONY are hurting those that love it the most. This on top of the high initial purchase price anyway, plus the pack with two pads isn’t seeming like such good value after all.


    Edit : not that it seemed good value, just that what ever value it held is now substantially worse.
    Edited by 2 at 20/09/07 @ 09:15

  • Scythe #21 4 years ago

    sharpfish and other 360 fanboys like you:
    Isn't is funny you're talking about "backtracking" and "flipflopping". What was that Microsoft said in the past? Oh yes ... "1080p is unimportant" and "HDMI is useless" right? Wait a minute ... what was in that firmware upgrade last November? And what does the Elite have? And what are they releasing on the new upcoming Premiums? And what did 360 fanboys suddenly say? Oh yes, "Hooray, MS have listened to us and are giving us what we want". Wow, deja-vu.
    What else did they say? Oh, right, "No 360 game will ever need a hard-drive" (wrong) and "20GB will be enough" (wrong) and lets not forget the corker of "The 360 has an acceptable failure rate" (VERY wrong).

    So yeah, laugh at Sony and PS3 fanboys all you want but your beloved Microsoft and 360 fanboys aren't any better (is there such a thing as 1 fanboy being better than another? I doubt it). At least I only have to buy a new £30 controller for what Sony left out instead of a new £200+ console for what Microsoft left out (and yes, I do have a 1080p TV so those things do make a difference to me). And even then I would only be getting gimped HD-DVD playback (for which I'll need to spend another £100 - and I thought MS were all about giving me choice ... so where's my choice of a blu-ray add-on?). And then there's the problem of me using wireless ... so there's another add-on I need to buy.

    Now I'm not saying Sony are perfect, they've made a lot of mistakes this time round and rumble was one of them. But fanboys pointing out "mistakes" by the competition while ignoring the mistakes made by the manufacturor of their console of choice ("Every 360 has an inherent flaw and can RRoD at any time"? "Needing to buy a new console for HDMI"?) is far more amusing than anything any of the manufacturors ever do.



    EDIT:
    BadBoyBonner - I'd be interested to see your take on how, considering the above points, Microsoft haven't (in your terms) SHAFTED EVERY 360 USER. I'm sure you'll try and find some way to differentiate, it's as predictable as death and taxes.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 09:16

  • Drpwnage #22 4 years ago

    @mkreku

    I am also a long term PC gamer, I purchased a 360 at the start of the year and the rumble on the 360 pad is bloody brilliant. It really adds to games, nothing like feeling the chainsaw at work in Gears or the sheer rattle of a static gun emplacement while the pad goes mental in your hands.

    For sheer visceral involvement in a game Trigger + Rumble is teh win :>

  • BadBoyBonner #23 4 years ago

    Drpwnage.

    I Agree.

    What about Bioshock, when Rosie or Bouncer are near feeling the footsteps? Very good use of rumble IMO.

  • BadBoyBonner #24 4 years ago

    Scythe

    You could have saved yourself £200+ and got 1080p through VGA.

    How "Microsoft haven't (in your terms) SHAFTED EVERY 360 USER"

    1) By setting aside One billion dollars to ensure Every single Xbox 360 will be repaired for the first 3 years of it's life (have Sony agreed to do that? You think no PS3 will break in the 3 years from launch? SONY should put their money where their mouth is and offer the same, which if you belive what they say should cost em nothing shouldn't it? - I hope they do so).

    2) By ensuring that both machines have had rumble and passing non of the fine on.

    3)There are more 1080p 360 games FACT- and arguably the 360 scales content better when required.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 09:25

  • Scythe #25 4 years ago

    "BadBoyBonner": You could have saved yourself £200+ and got 1080p through VGA

    No thanks, I prefer the better quality (both visually and aurally) that comes though HDMI. Fact is if VGA was so great Microsoft wouldn't have come out with HDMI because it would have been "useless", right? But not only have they released the Elite but they're planning to roll it out on the Premiums as well. Why is that if VGA is fine? Surely there must be a reason? If you can explain to me why, if VGA is "fine", Microsoft are now rolling out HDMI in ALL their consoles THEN you might have a point but the fact is you're just spouting stuff MS convinced you of and subsequently backtracked on. If VGA were enough we wouldn't be seeing 360's with HDMI, simple fact.
    And it's not a saving of £200 because ... you see ... I watch HD media as well. Which means I would have had to fork out of a HD-DVD add-on to watch that media. And I connect wirelessly to the net which means I would have had to get a wireless adaptor. All of a sudden that £200 isn't looking like such a lot any more to me.


    EDIT:
    And your "resons" are predictable and poor. L:ets see:
    1 - Sony don't have to do that because ... well .. this might be difficult to comprehend as a 360 owner but the PS3 is actually RELIABLE. Of course some consoles will break, as with ANY new electronics release. But the fact is MS had a much higher than average failure rate AND tried to deny the problem for so long. You think they introduced the warranty out of the goodness of their hearts or because of the massive bad press they were starting to get? All the claims of "acceptable failure rate" and "there's nothing wrong"? Sony don't have to do that because ... you see ... there hasnt been any mass failures of PS3's. You think MS WANTED to lose a few billion on warranty claims or you think they were forced into a position where they had no choice? How soon you forget all the denials by MS of there being an preliability problems, oh they sure as hell TRIED to avoid the warranty situation.

    2 - That has what to do with everthing else they left off the 360?

    3 - I'd like to see the list of those games please. Currently the 360 has more UPSCALED games but very few NATIVE 1080p games - there's a difference between upscaling and native (not that PS3 has many either, off the top of my head I can thnk of Sonic, RR and NGS all poor games IMO). And considering it's been out a year longer one would bloody well HOPE it has more games (and by the law of averages more games fitting a specific criteria) as ... well ... it has a year more games (and has the 2nd and 3rd gen games coming out which is great for the 360 owners as developers have a greater handle on the hardware and are therefore puching out great quality games like Halo3 and Bioshock)
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 09:40

  • Rirekon #26 4 years ago

    ""We have not made any changes to its outward appearance..."
    I cease to be interested, your pads are crap.

  • qwerty123 #27 4 years ago

    its all about the games! i cant stand these ps3 owners who keep trying to justify their purchase. if the 360 is so crap then why would it bother them??

  • IAmBatman #28 4 years ago

    > I absolutely hate when my controller rumbles away from me
    > and I have to chase it all over my living room floor.

    I find it helps if you hold the controller.

  • BadBoyBonner #29 4 years ago

    Scythe

    Having witnessed the 360 with my own eyes I need enlist the help of only me to show me the difference, there isn't any to speak of, most difference people report are due to differeing contrast levels and colours on the different input.

    Infact you could have a go yourself, the monitor half the people on here are viewing on is going to be analogue - your telling me there would be a noticble difference in quality if I went to digital? There isn't, my monitor supports either and I can not tell the difference.

    You seem to contradict yourself - MS are offereing choice new 360's with HDMI (at a cost to them) that has not been passed onto the end user.

    MS are offering it now as at the time of the launch of the 360 the HDMI standard was still being finalised.

    How many TV's had a HDMI port on them when the 360 was launched?

    MS have added a port - my first hand experience with SONY is that over time, they GET RID of as many ports on the back as they can.


  • Les #30 4 years ago

    "I really have no idea why people make such a big deal out of a function only dildos ought to have. I absolutely hate when my controller rumbles away from me and I have to chase it all over my living room floor."

    +1

    But of course, if it's in, you can always turn it off. Although it's a shame the rumble will increase the weight of the controller. If they'd remove those awful triggers, the SIXAXIS would be the best controller yet IMO.

  • Les #31 4 years ago

    It would be so great if the "ignore" function would also work on quotes... ;)

    Anyone that tries to convince another person that console X is great or crap is stupid fanboy and there are way too many of them around here

  • Darren #32 4 years ago

    We all knew it was coming, especially after yesterday's news, but it's still nice to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak. In fact, it's nice to hear any positive news regarding the PS3 because between key games and Home getting delayed there hasn't been much GOOD news, has there? :?

  • MieZ™ #33 4 years ago

    Most PS3 owners will have more controllers after buying DS3 than games too play with?!

  • souljacker2000 #34 4 years ago

    Im sure they said this was last gen... stupid bastards

  • Bumhug360 #35 4 years ago

    "No thanks, I prefer the better quality (both visually and aurally) that comes though HDMI. Fact is if VGA was so great Microsoft wouldn't have come out with HDMI because it would have been "useless", right? But not only have they released the Elite but they're planning to roll it out on the Premiums as well. Why is that if VGA is fine? Surely there must be a reason? If you can explain to me why, if VGA is "fine", Microsoft are now rolling out HDMI in ALL their consoles THEN you might have a point but the fact is you're just spouting stuff MS convinced you of and subsequently backtracked on. If VGA were enough we wouldn't be seeing 360's with HDMI, simple fact."


    Well the answer is simple, a lot of people think HDMI is far superior to VGA, in most cases though it isnt. A lot of cheap TV's dont support vga and most middle range tv's wont go as high as 1080p through vga, so in those cases to get 1080p you need hdmi. And the reason they are rolling them out on all consoles now is cost, doesnt make financial sense to make one motherboard for one system and a different one for another

  • Arwin #36 4 years ago

    They didn't have much choice, what with the lawsuit and Microsoft's involvement in Immersion ... Ironically probably they strongly believed that rumble was going to be here to stay and so any expensive concessions would have hurt them for a long time, so they thought it was worth playing hardball, no matter what the PR costs at the time.

    Anyway, glad to hear it is coming, and to a whole lot of games to boot, including a lot of games already out (like Heavenly Sword). From the looks (TGS impressions) of it in MGS4 it seems to be rather good, being able to tell from which direction the rumble is coming and such.

    Personally, I never cared much for rumble, but in a few games it was a nice addition, and I do think it could be great when combined with motion sensing. But I'd still have motion sensing over rumble any day. Games like Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Motorstorm, and even Super Rub-a-Dub and Flow have taught me that.

    Also I've noticed very, very often that nearly everyone I've had over at my place and play Motorstorm feels more comfortable with driving using the motion controls. Almost everyone gets it right away.

    Now hopefully we get the best of both worlds.

  • Scythe #37 4 years ago

    Badboybonner

    ”Having witnessed the 360 with my own eyes I need enlist the help of only me to show me the difference, there isn't any to speak of, most difference people report are due to differeing contrast levels and colours on the different input.”

    Infact you could have a go yourself, the monitor half the people on here are viewing on is going to be analogue - your telling me there would be a noticble difference in quality if I went to digital? There isn't, my monitor supports either and I can not tell the difference. ”
    Having witnessed both the premium and the PS3 linked to a 1080p Samsung TV many times (one of my mates has the set-up) I can certainly see the difference between the supposed VGA 1080p and HDMI. So I suppose each to their own.


    ”You seem to contradict yourself - MS are offereing choice new 360's with HDMI (at a cost to them) that has not been passed onto the end user. “
    Where have I contradicted myself? MS give the illusion of choice. The HD-DVD AND blu-ray choice? Where’s the non-proprietary add-on for wireless and hard-drive? The only things you can buy for the 360 are MS branded. Is that choice?


    ”MS are offering it now as at the time of the launch of the 360 the HDMI standard was still being finalised.“
    So basically you’re admitting the console was rushed and should have been delayed until they COULD have released a complete console? These aren’t supposed to be like PC’s where a new upgrade is out every year. What happens if something new comes out in 2008, will we get ANOTHER 360?


    ”How many TV's had a HDMI port on them when the 360 was launched? “
    In the UK (which I assume you’re in) they were pushing the “HD Ready” at that stage so … a lot. Granted it was 720p not 1080p but there were still many HD ready TV’s all with HDMI


    ”MS have added a port - my first hand experience with SONY is that over time, they GET RID of as many ports on the back as they can.”
    Examples? And lets not go into how they removed ports (like the dual HDMI) before the console was even released. And talking about contradiction, lets complain when Sony remove ports but hten complain when they add rumble? Lose lose with some people ...




    As a closing note ... I really don't see how this has ANY impact on people like yourself who don't even own a PS3? So I really fail to see why people like you are making such a big deal about it considering that is pretty much has absolutely zero effect on you whatsoever. Why not let those who actually own a PS3 debate the pro's and con's of the return of rumble considering it's US that are affected? It's a sad state of affairs when 360 owners are so insecure they have to troll PS3 trhreads (and the PS3 fanboys who do the opposite are just as sad, they're just consoles for crying out loud, get some perspective). But as expected the usual suspects come crawling out from under the bridge whenever a Sony article is posted to spout the same old vitriol towards something that doesn't even concern or affect them. God is this what we've devolved into?
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 09:59

  • Les #38 4 years ago

    "Well the answer is simple, a lot of people think HDMI is far superior to VGA, in most cases though it isnt. A lot of cheap TV's dont support vga and most middle range tv's wont go as high as 1080p through vga, so in those cases to get 1080p you need hdmi."

    So HDMI is superior to VGA: it's actually supported widely... ;)

  • BadBoyBonner #39 4 years ago

    Scythe

    Any chance you will not copy swathes of my post and actually answer the questions I have posted?

  • erp #40 4 years ago

    this is living!

  • Triggerhappytel #41 4 years ago

    What I want to know is, when they paid off Immersion with $120 million, or whatever silly amount it was, rather than licence the technology out why didn't they get their R&D dept. to develop a 'Tri-Shock'?! Surely this is feasible in the decade since DualShock was pioneered...?

  • Les #42 4 years ago

    @ Scythe

    I made the mistake of trying to reason with fanboys as well. But I've learned it's useless. Best to ignore them, it's not like they'll ever say something interesting.

  • Scythe #43 4 years ago

    BadBoyBonner

    Any chance you might actually read my post and see me dealing with your individual points which have been put in quote tags with my answers after each quote? Apparenty not. Someone should have gone to specsavers.


    Les - I think you have a good point and shall tkae your advice. Over and out.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 10:02

  • BadBoyBonner #44 4 years ago

    Scythe

    And in answer to your reply of early HD TV's coming with HDMI they most certainly did not.

    They had DVi - which was out long before HDMI,

  • manic_mouse #45 4 years ago

    So is Harisson happy to admit he was lying through his teeth now? Of course EG will never ask him this, as they lick his ass every time they get an interview.

    "rumble and motion sensing can't be done"

    "rumble is last gen"

    "nobody wants rumble"

    Wanker.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 10:08

  • Darren #46 4 years ago

    Does anyone know why Sony aren't launching the new controller worldwide simultaneously? I thought Burnout Paradise on the PS3 supported rumble and isn't that out in December, and even if it isn't, won't rumble work with those backward compatible PS2 games anyway?

    Does it really take Sony months to translate the manual that comes with the controller into English and other European languages? /rolls eyes

  • BadBoyBonner #47 4 years ago

    Scythe

    I tell you what I will write them out, as you seem to be ignoring the more difficult issues.

    Thus allowing you to copy it and post in between at your leisure .

    Questions

    1) “So has the company had second thoughts about the decision to ditch rumble?” “None whatsoever,” Harrison tells us firmly. “Not at all.” Do you think he was telling PS3 user’s the truth?

    2) Why didn’t SONY get the house in order? (which means settle the suit before the PS3 was released).

    3) Do you think SONY have waited to effectively have PS3 user foot the legal bill and settlement charge? If not please explain why not.

    4) DO you think the PS3 should have had rumble from the start? If not why not?

    5) Are PS3’s guaranteed for three years? If not and the failure rate is as low as they say why are they not offering a 3 year guarantee?

    6) Would you agree that the only fair way to circumnavigate the feeling that SONY have conned all PS3 users thus far out of functionality, is to allow a free exchange to ALL PS3 pads that do not have rumble? If not why not?

  • Les #48 4 years ago

    "Does it really take Sony months to translate the manual that comes with the controller into English and other European languages? /rolls eyes"

    Beats me. Might have something to do with available production capacity or logistics. Or maybe stock levels of the old controller. Or product certification. Don't know whether that's still country-by-country in the EU nowadays?

  • Artemus #49 4 years ago

    Yes! Motorstorm with rumble.

  • qwerty123 #50 4 years ago

    is the rumble compatible with older games like motorstorm? if not, are they going to patch it?

  • QPRHOOPS81 #51 4 years ago

    "Also I've noticed very, very often that nearly everyone I've had over at my place and play Motorstorm feels more comfortable with driving using the motion controls. Almost everyone gets it right away."

    Right thats crap. My brother has a PS3 and when i can afford one ill probally get one(he buys so many games i can just steal them off him so its always worth following his console choice decisions). Ive played Motorstorm loads and i dont know anyone who uses the tilt controls. It handles really badly and it far to jumpy. I still think its good to have as the longer devs have with it the better use games will make of it. For that just look at rumble, i remember the first games when that was first introduced. The buzz was often not totally in time or too hard/sort.

    I like the way some games have started using the tilt controls minimally, like in GRAW where to dive down you thrust it forward. I even enjoyed in heavenly sword the whole throwing people thing.

  • Ryze #52 4 years ago

    @ BadBoyBonner:

    Precisely.

    Every fool / child sees this as fanboy ranting.

    IT'S NOT.

    It's an incompetent, greedy company exploiting loyal followers.

    I know plenty about exploitation - [*decides not to invite idiots to argue*]

    I'm glad that the PS3 has got rumble, but $ony won't be getting my ca$h for this anytime soon.

  • Duke_Red #53 4 years ago

    Well Done that man!

  • PlugMonkey #54 4 years ago

    "So yeah, laugh at Sony and PS3 fanboys all you want but your beloved Microsoft and 360 fanboys aren't any better "

    Yeah, I laugh at Sony fanboys. Then again, I also laugh at Microsoft fanboys. But this morning Scythe, I'm principally laughing at you.

    It's an electrical appliance. Get some fucking perspective.

    Right, I'm off to the EuroHoover forums to tell those Dyson fanboys their vacuum cleaner is an over-rated piece of crap. Wish me luck, boys.

  • QPRHOOPS81 #55 4 years ago

    whatever Dyson are way better than Hoover.

  • Sebo #56 4 years ago

    @scythe

    Seriously man, are you defending Sony?

  • Scythe #57 4 years ago

    BadBoyBonner - Enjoy the essay, lets see if you actually read it or pick and choose the bits you like and dislike (which is what fanboys usually do). Will be interested to see if you have the balls to answer my questions as frankly and honeslty as I've answered yours:
    1 – No he was not telling the truth. Alternatively if he wasn’t involved in that aspect and was merely passing on information given to him by the technical department he was “innocently” lying. But be it innocent or otherwise either way it was not the truth.
    2 – Well I don’t know because I’m not a Sony executive. But I can hazard a guess fomr my knowledge of big businesses that they were awaiting the outcome of the appeal. To pay licence fees prior to that outcome would have been tacit agreement that they were in the wrong. The outcome still went against them but at that time paying a licensing fees would have GUARANTEED the outcome.
    3 – No. Because considering the sales of the PS3 (which 360 owners claim are poor) the sale of rumble controller will certainly not outweigh the cost of settlement (£120mil wasn’t it) AND legal fees? You can’t have it either way, claiming that sales of rumble controllers (probably at about £35 a pop) will make up the licensing fee means you are admitting PS3 sales are good (very good in fact considering the legal and licensing fees). Claiming they’re poor means the controller sales will not cover the costs. So which is it?
    4 – Some people think it should have. I’m not bothered either way, I rarely played with rumble enabled anyway. For those who do love rumble yes, for those who don’t care (like me), no. In fact I’m debating getting the new controller at all, my only possible reason would be MGS4 which has been IMO the only series to use the feature well … but rumble for 1 game? Dunno.
    5 – No they are not. And they aren’t because they don’t HAVE to be as they’re reliable consoles. I ask you to name another mass produced consumer electronic device as unreliable as the 360 (and the PS2 had DRE’s but the failure rate was never as high as the 360). And name another mass produced consumer electronic device with a 3 year warranty as standard. When you fail as yourself why MS changed to this warranty. Remember, not even 3 months ago the 360 warranty didn’t exist and people were still paying for repairs.
    6 – Yes, I would like to have a free exchange program. Do I think it WILL happen? No, but I would like it. However as per point 4 I’m not partial to rumble anyway so it doesn't bother me. I can see it bothering some though.


    Now I have a few questions for you:
    1) “1080p is useless”, “HDMI is pointless”, “The 360 has an acceptable failure rate”, “Games will never require a HD”. Do you think 360 owners were being told the truth?
    2) Should Microsoft have gotten their house in order? (which means settle on final specs and reliability before release)?
    3) Do you think Microsoft has effectively waited to bolster their sales and profits by releasing an adapted console with something they claimed was useless but they then discovered people wanted, a discovery that could have been made with simple market research? This has been shown by the healthy Elite sales.
    4) Do you think the 360 should have had HDMI and a 120GB HD from the start, considering the u-turn done by MS after their initial statements? If not why not?
    5) Did the 360 have a 3 year guarantee from the start? If not why do you think it changed? Do you feel MS did the change because they “care for their customer” or for other reasons? And if so what reasons?
    6) Would you agree that the only fair way to circumnavigate the feeling that MS have conned all Core users thus far out of functionality, is to allow a free exchange to ALL Cores as they were bought under MS’s promise that no games will ever require a HD which is no longer true? If not why not?
    7) Would you agree that the only fair way to circumnavigate the feeling that MS have conned all Premium users thus far out of functionality, is to allow a free exchange to ALL Premiums as they were bought under MS’s promise that HDMI was a useless addition and would not be included? If not why not?
    8) Do you agree that MS pricing structure for peripherals (e.g. over £100 for a 120Gb HD) is expensive for what you get? If not explain why the pricing is fair (according to Amazon 360 20GB is £65, 120GB is £130, whereas for £70 you can get a 500GB Western Digital Elements external hard drive).
    9) Do you believe that MS gives it’s users choice when all peripherals (e.g. Headests, wireless adaptors, had drives) are proprietary and if so, explain why it’s a good thing that you can only buy Microsoft branded products for the 360 (and justify their prices, connected to point 8) this putting money in MS’s pockets by buying any add-ons.
    10) Do you feel the return of rumble in any way affects you or anybody else who doesn’t have a PS3? If not do you feel that the opinion of current PS3 owners have far more weight that yours because those are the people actually affected, unlike you who has “lost” nothing? If not why not?


    Can’t wait for you to try and avoid the questions … as people like you do. Now let’s see who’s the fanboy, I’m more than happy to criticise Sony and the PS3, I bet you’ll try and twist every question I’ve asked into a positive for MS and the 360 (if you even answer them). Sometimes you just don’t need a crystal ball to tell the future (can’t wait for the justification that £120 for a 120GB external HD is “fair”)

  • GamesConnoisseur #58 4 years ago

    I for one, whatever the costs WILL import DualShock 3 off Japan. It will have the same usb connection and thus no worries for different power or NTSC settings!

    Fools Sony as many games will be rumble ready by Dec and no rumble controller until spring 08 or perhaps later?

    Not going to waste my time playing games with no rumbling for a second longer!

    Before anyone comment, its my money and I said elsewhere why rumbling is important for me. So Sony was discriminating Deaf people like me when removed the rumbling feature but I knew it will come back and thus went ahead with PS3.

  • Scythe #59 4 years ago

    Sebo -
    No. They should have included rumble from the start if they include it now. Either all or not at all. All I'm pointing out is that the 360 fanboys attacking Sony for this are hypocrites because they were defending MS when they did the exact same things with stuff like 1080p and HDMI and no games using the HD and acceptable failure rates. It's that simple, I'm pointing out the pot calling the kettle black.

  • Scythe #60 4 years ago

    PlugMonkey
    Wow did you miss the boat. please poitn out where I've felt the need to go into 360 threads and attack that console. Or where I've felt the need to slate the 360 here. You know, things fanboys do. You're right, someone is in need of perspective ... try looking in the mirror.

  • TelexStar #61 4 years ago

    @ Scythe
    "No. They should have included rumble from the start if they include it now. Either all or not at all. All I'm pointing out is that the 360 fanboys attacking Sony for this are hypocrites because they were defending MS when they did the exact same things with stuff like 1080p and HDMI and no games using the HD and acceptable failure rates. It's that simple, I'm pointing out the pot calling the kettle black. "

    Well that's not strictly a fair comparison. The Hi-Def industry is a pretty infant one, and to make a comparison between that and rumble gamepads (which have been out for fucking years I might add) isn't fair. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about the 360 failure rates but I'm happy that MS have at least acknoledged it and offered a 3 year cover for the fault. It's more than any other company has done in the past.

    Rather than comparing apples with oranges, I'm more interested in this announcement of the rumble pad... The thing that winds me up the most is how Sony are spinning this to sound like they've done everyone a favour and dazzled the world yet again with a rumble pad. What? I remember buying the original Gran Turismo on the PS1 when "DuelShock" was all the rage. This was news 10 years ago, it's not now so why is everyone raving about this?

  • bioreit #62 4 years ago

    Wait, hang on, why's there a three-four month delay between Japan and Europe/USA?

    Regionalisation and localisation of the controllers?

  • AcidSnake #63 4 years ago

    @Scythe:
    Calm down mate...it's just games...

    I'd like to counteract your point 2 however...

    2) Should Microsoft have gotten their house in order? (which means settle on final specs and reliability before release)?

    If you are referring to HDMI specs, it wasn't microsofts call...Should they have delayed the console waiting for the industry to finalise HDMI specs? No...
    Should they have delayed to make the 360 more reliable?...Probably...
    Even though launching early has given them a headstart...

  • Darren #64 4 years ago

    I think it's fair to say that both Sony and Microsoft have made plenty of mistakes this generation.

    The Xbox 360 has been out longer but there's still a big question mark hanging over its reliability, the 120 GB HDD and even the 20 GB HDD are obscenely overpriced and the Elite was a disappointment, failing to live up to its namesake (why didn't it come with Wi-Fi built in or the improved chipset and why didn't the original Premium have HDMI to start with)? Still doesn't change the fact that the Xbox 360 is *the* console to own at this point in time if you want to play the best games because neither the PS3 nor Wii come close to matching its games catalogue for quality.

    As for the PS3, Sony seem to have released the machine before they and the developers were ready for it as it's lacking in must-have games, multiformat titles are often inferior on the PS3 and many of its key titles have been delayed, Home has been pushed back to Spring 2008 and they're having to release a new rumble SIXAXIS which should have been included with the hardware in the first place. The hardware is terrific though, it has HDMI and it's apparently reliable so at least they got that right. Also the PS3 is a fabulous BD movie player so that's another plus point (for me anyway). They just need a kick up the arse though regarding the games, the disappointing PS Store and the slapdash online integration compared with Xbox Live.

  • Sebo #65 4 years ago

    Here's what I really don't get

    PS3 was supposed to be out at the start of 2006 yeah?

    So with the year delay, why are there still no good games!!!!

  • Les #66 4 years ago

    "Still doesn't change the fact that the Xbox 360 is *the* console to own at this point in time if you want to play the best games because neither the PS3 nor Wii come close to matching its games catalogue for quality."

    PS2 does. Hands down. Still the console to own at this point in time. There’s nothing on 360 or PS3 right now that justifies the term ‘next gen’ let alone the investment in a new console. But that's just my opinion... ;)

    @ Scythe

    Reading this thread I really got a sense of déjà vu… Been there, trust me, it’s pointless. The ‘ignore’ button does wonders however. :)

  • Les #67 4 years ago

    "Even though launching early has given them a headstart..."

    Which they've squandered already... MS gambled on the early start and lost. The only way to release the 360 that early at a reasonable price was by cutting corners. Of course they have the right to make that decision. Just like consumers have the right not to care for their product...

    But it’s not just MS that missed the boat: Sony, video game media and game publishers were just as stupid. Everyone in the industry thought the success of PS2 could be copied by releasing something similar but with newer technology. How wrong they were...

  • bioreit #68 4 years ago

    Scythe = troll.

    No amount of ranting and typing long essays and saying "but, but, Microsoft shafted customers too, why don't you complain about that, huh?" will change that.

    This is an article and comments thread about PLAYSTATION 3, not about Xbox 360.

    All the whining and bitching about Xbox 360 and Microsoft's many, many cock-ups has been handled adequately well in the threads and articles relating to those cock-ups.

    Sony and Microsoft both screwed up, we accept that, but your comments come across as subjective opinion presented as objective fact as to why PS3 is superior - therefore, you're a fanboy.

    One quick example of this:

    "If you can explain to me why, if VGA is "fine", Microsoft are now rolling out HDMI in ALL their consoles THEN you might have a point but the fact is you're just spouting stuff MS convinced you of and subsequently backtracked on. If VGA were enough we wouldn't be seeing 360's with HDMI, simple fact."

    How about choice? I only have one VGA port on my Samsung, but I have three HDMI ports - all three HDMI ports are being used by things other than my 360 that don't come with good, native VGA support. So I use the VGA for my 360. But I also have the choice to use HDMI if I want to.

    And I happen to think that VGA looks better than component for most games, although I switch back to it for DVDs.

    Edit 1:Just thought of this - let's turn that point of yours around then, Scythe. Why did Sony change the hardware backwards compatibility to software? I mean, if the hardware BC was "fine", why did they change to the software version?

    /Just to spell it out in big flashy letters - I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SONY'S CHANGING OF BC METHODS. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE
    Edited by 2 at 20/09/07 @ 12:27

  • Sebo #69 4 years ago

    The success of the PS2 has been copied - with the Wii.

  • SeesThroughAll #70 4 years ago

    The console wars live on!

  • Sebo #71 4 years ago

    One day I will look back and tell my children of how I fought in the console wars so that they could live a life free from the choice of multiple console manufacturers ....

  • Darren #72 4 years ago

    @Les - True, the PS2 does have more quality games but I was referring to the current generation of hardware although I didn't make that very clear! /oops

  • Sebo #73 4 years ago

    But the SNES has more quality games than the PS2, so this is totally irrelevant.

  • Les #74 4 years ago

    @ SeesThroughAll

    Only in the media and the fanboy's mind: a struggle for second place doesn't sound that interesting... ;)

  • Kenshin001 #75 4 years ago

    Wow, with the addition of rumble to the motion sensor controller the PS3 has it all. Wifi, HDMI, Blutooth, Blu-ray games and movies, large 60GB HDD and a rumble/motion sensor controller! And you can remotely access the PS3 with a PSP. I can hardly wait to play the incredibly fun Warhawk or Motorstorm with the Dualshock 3.

  • ResidentKnievel #76 4 years ago

    Fan boy wars have no winners, only losers

  • Les #77 4 years ago

    @ Kenshin001

    You sound like the Sony-version of TRUTH...

  • bioreit #78 4 years ago

    @ Les

    THANK YOU! That's been bugging me for AGES who he reminded me of!

    /chortles

  • Garulon #79 4 years ago

    @ SDF idiot:
    1) “1080p is useless”, “HDMI is pointless”, “The 360 has an acceptable failure rate”, “Games will never require a HD”. Do you think 360 owners were being told the truth?

    When did Microsoft say ANY of those things? Aren't you just building a strawman?

    Enjoy your trip to the shops to buy a pad identical except for "a last gen feature" though. Sometime next year. Hey, maybe there'll be a decent exclusive PS3 game by then as well!

  • BM #80 4 years ago

    Who gives a toss about 360 vs PS3, you get the one you like (or if you're rich, both) then you go home and play on them. End of.

  • AcidSnake #81 4 years ago

    Which they've squandered already

    Well, when confronted with the behemoth that is Wii...
    PS3 has a lot of catching up to do if it wants to surpass 360...
    Plus we're at a point where MS can make the rules...Pricecuts and such...
    Also with BioShock and Halo 3 this is going to be a massive time for MS...
    The headstart is in place, and when comparing to PS3 not squandered...

  • Garulon #82 4 years ago

    @Les

    "Which they've squandered already... MS gambled on the early start and lost. "

    360 install base, 11m
    PS3 install base, 4m

    How is this squandered?

  • PlugMonkey #83 4 years ago

    Scythe - "You know, things fanboys do. "

    What, like write essay length forum posts defending their choice of electrical appliance? Yes, that's the kind of thing I'm driving at.

    I tried looking in the mirror, but it didn't really reveal much. Just the same handsome, well adjusted gent I always see.

    I wish he'd get out of the bloody way.

  • Les #84 4 years ago

    @ Garulon

    Comfortably forgetting about the Wii? And if I'm not mistaken the numbers you refer to (360 as well as PS3) are shipped rather than sold.

  • TelexStar #85 4 years ago

    @ PlugMonkey

    "I tried looking in the mirror, but it didn't really reveal much. Just the same handsome, well adjusted gent I always see.

    I wish he'd get out of the bloody way. "

    Haha. Ok, that's going down in my note book.

  • Garulon #86 4 years ago

    @Les
    "Comfortably forgetting about the Wii?"

    360 isn't really competing with the Wii though. Users are different, pricepoint is different, capabilities are different, games lineup is different. I mean you can play games on both, but if we're going to get THAT coarse we can always go "look how shitty Wii sales are compared to the PC"

    If you want any proof look how dreadfully even AAA "traditional" games like MP3 sell compared to brainless soccer-mom thumb candy like Wii Sports/Play or MP8. Even if soccor mom buys a 360 she sure as hell isn't going to play Halo 3 on it.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 15:49

  • Les #87 4 years ago

    "360 isn't really competing with the Wii though. Users are different, pricepoint is different, capabilities are different, games lineup is different. I mean you can play games on both, but if we're going to get THAT coarse we can always go "look how shitty Wii sales are compared to the PC" "

    Come on, you can't be serious (unless you mean the 360 isn't really competition to the Wii, in which case we agree). It's a hollow PR spin from Sony and MS and it's just ridiculous. Unless MS and Sony are just aiming for the hardcore with 360 and PS3. But I kind of get the feeling they hoped to conquer the 100mln+ market of the PS2...

    PC comparison is bullshit as we all know that the majority of PC sales has nothing to do with games. But 360, PS3 and Wii all share games as their primary focus.

    "Even if soccor mom buys a 360 she sure as hell isn't going to play Halo 3 on it."

    Exactly. Which is why 360 will struggle to sell as much as the original xbox.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 15:58

  • Les #88 4 years ago

    "There are a great number of games out now that could not be recreated, in their entirety, on previous generation consoles. They might be able to reproduce the concepts, even the capture the gameplay, but they categorically could NOT reproduce the visuals and in most cases the scope and physics engines and that is part of what next-gen games are."

    Like I said, they're HD versions of past games. And I can't think of a single game in which the physics engine has a significant impact on gameplay as opposed to last gen games. Not sure about your definition of scope, but most next gen games have less content (not counting pixels). Gameplay hasn't advanced one bit, which is why the world doesn't care about PS3 or 360. They just don't justify their existence yet, if ever.

  • SteveB #89 4 years ago

    @les - "PS2 does. Hands down. Still the console to own at this point in time. There’s nothing on 360 or PS3 right now that justifies the term ‘next gen’ let alone the investment in a new console. But that's just my opinion... ;) "

    Utter rubbish. I've had a PS2 over 6 years, bought over 50 games for it and had loads of fun in the process, but it's time to move on.

    I held off buying a 360 until a couple of months ago because only now is it coming into it's own. Theres a load of great exclusive games, the 360 usually has the best version of the multi frormat games, xbox live arcade has real gems on it and it's relatively cheap.

    I couldn't give a crap about how many consoles have been sold (as long as it doesn't mean the end of the console - RIP Dreamcast), it's all about the games and the 360 at this moment in time has them. When this changes for the other consoles then I will buy them as well, just like I have every other generation.

  • BadBoyBonner #90 4 years ago

    Scythe

    1) An innocent misrepresentation is a misrepresentation
    2) The MS and SONY suit’s were started the same time, MS settled in 2003 Sony dragged it out for another 4 years.
    3) Your making (false) assumption about my thoughts of SONY sales; grouping everyone who owns an XboX 360 of some how being identical (I believe they call that prejudice). NO IT DID NOT COST £120 million it cost $119.9 million dollars so about half of what you said. You say I can not have it either way when I have not asked for it to be heard in anyway - at £10 a pad they only have to sell 6 million which with an average of 2 for every console sold they would easily pay the legal costs of this dispute.
    4) Clearly SONY think it should or they would not be adding it.
    5) Clearly MS have changed a problem into a solution by throwing a billion dollars at it, anyone now who were worried about the 360 failing will now be guaranteed a longer enjoyment under warranty than any current PS3 owner.
    6) You seem to have totally missed answering question 6 so I’ll post it here

    Would you agree that the only fair way to circumnavigate the feeling that SONY have conned all PS3 users thus far out of functionality, is to allow a free exchange to ALL PS3 pads that do not have rumble? If not why not?

    Everyone else seems to have answered most of your questions in my absence (thanks Guys (and gals if any of you are)).

    However, I will state that I think the price of the external drives is a complete rip off (hence me ensuring I got a premium system). I think anyone only needs above the 13GB of space for downloading films and TV shows (something unavailable here in the UK) – and to be honest it is not a service I have much interest in myself – it was an attractive idea before SKY started to get their HD act together, at which point I went off downloading HD shows and films – which when reviewed by EG – weren’t encoded that brilliantly to start with.

    But as most people have pointed out, we ripped the S**t out of MS on a lot of the points you have mentioned, you seem to think that having a pop at SONY for something they have screwed up on seems to have to be directed back at MS, I am not sure why – guess that would be a fanboy.

    For me, I’ll vehemently comment on anyone/company that makes a mistake in this industry, when the mistake is about such a rudimentarily obvious feature.

    FACT IS SONY COULD HAVE SETTLED YEARS AGO – they didn’t, they then lied to everyone about why it was not part of the PS3 features – and now they have seemingly managed the impossible, except they were the only one stating it was impossible, which everyone thought at the time was a right load of bol****s as the Wii controller was effortlessly proving.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/07 @ 17:05

  • Drpwnage #91 4 years ago

    .......and so the console wars 'rumble' on :>

  • smelly #92 4 years ago

    @BadBoyBonner:
    >SONY HAVE SHAFTED EVERY SINGLE PS3 PURCHASER


    WOOOAH THERE!

    If you bought a ps3, then you were obviously happy with the lack of rumble when you bought it.

    They're not "shafting you" just giving the consumers who werent happy with the lack of rumble (so didnt buy one) one of the features they wanted.

  • FladgeMangle #93 4 years ago

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

    Let's be happy.

    PS3 is finally getting rumble, which some people really want- Hoorah!

    360 has also adopted some tech it now feels is appropriate and will benefit those folk who think these things are important - Hoorah!

    I say well done to both Sony and Microsoft for being so adaptive. Group hug?

  • GamesConnoisseur #94 4 years ago

    [link url=http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6179318.html?tag=late stnews;title;3
    ]http://uk .gamespot.com/news/6179318.html...[/link]

    The source of where Big Phil was commenting on DualShock 3 on GameSpot

    "He also explained that there is no learning curve required for developers to implement Dual Shock into PlayStation 3 games because the system to do so is exactly the same as the one that was used for the PlayStation 2."

    Exactly the same, so not 'touchsense' the next gen rumbling as previously touted by some people in the forum? Also Gamespot commented that rumbling is a touch weaker than DualShock 2.

    Still happy enuf!