Reeves explains why Europe has to wait

By Robert Purchese Published 8 May, 2008

It's all about localisation.

SCEE boss David Reeves has said there is not enough incentive for developers to work on multiple language translations during development - explaining that's why us Europeans get games after the US.

Reeves told Eurogamer he would "love to go day and date with some titles" in the two continents, but said that was only really feasible in the UK. And he thinks you might call him bias if he did that.

"Well some developers would say they can do [translations during initial development]. Talk to Ted Price at Insomniac and he builds it in at the beginning. We're trying to educate all our developers to do that but it's something that's going to take a while," Reeves told Eurogamer.

"But even if you talk to Guerrilla, Namco, Square Enix, they all do it in English to begin with and then think about localisation later. You're absolutely right, we should do it at the beginning. But they look at it like, 'How much can I get for a Dutch version of the game?'

"With PlayStation Store we could probably go in the UK almost day and date. But then what are the Germans and the French going to say to me? That I'm Anglo-centric," added Reeves.

Yes and they may use other words, too.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (122) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • menage #1 4 years ago

    Learn to play in English I say. And if localization is such a problem why the hell doesn't it happen simultanously. It's not like graphic artist 1 is really recording those Spanish voices now is it. I call bullshit. They are the ones who want stupid translations, let them wait. Just give us the US copy.

    Luckily PS3 games are region free so I'll get US ones.

    Edited by 2 at 08/05/08 @ 09:56

  • McBradders #2 4 years ago

    So what?

    They'll be be waiting anyway... give us stuff day 1, this waiting crap is silly.

  • Bartacus #3 4 years ago

    Please ask him about the DS3 & when will it be included in the retail PS3 box, instead of the useless sixaxis pad.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 09:55

  • teabagger #4 4 years ago

    Well done Killa. How well reasoned, how insightful.

  • gingerlink #5 4 years ago

    so we're not getting the games earlier not to be biased against the rest of Europe, when you're biased against the whole of Europe anyway?

  • Inquisitor #6 4 years ago

    So they only reason we don't get games at the same time as the US is to appear 'fair' to the rest of Europe? That's a pretty piss poor excuse really, I think they can understand that having the same language as the US means we don't have to bother with localisation.

  • anomagnus #7 4 years ago

    I don't understand the logic of that.

    Now, i don't have a sony machine, but if i did, i'd be really angry to hear that games are being delayed in the UK (and Ireland, cause, you know, WE DO SPEAK ENGLISH) just to make sure that Germany and France don't insult sony.

    From what i understand, as well, the UK market is central to the PS3 European strategy, and i know Ireland had the highest per head install base of PS machines in Europe.

    This seems like a slap in the face

  • optimusprym8 #8 4 years ago

    If any of you actually worked in a games company [that dealt with localised versions], you'd all STFU.

  • bad09 #9 4 years ago

    Absolute bull MS seem do to it OK, Sony show all the time that they don't NEED to make the effort here. They know Europe is still half their install base even after being treated so badly.

    By the way Mr Reeves was language the delay in DS3 here as well? Knob!

  • Kenshin001 #10 4 years ago

    Silly argument. They should just release the English version first and then the localised versions later. Many Europeans speak English anyway and they would have the choice of getting it earlier or waiting. The French and Germans can complain all they want. As long as they complain in English.

  • drumbaby #11 4 years ago

    It's all about them thinking we like it up ye olde chuff.

  • Xerx3s #12 4 years ago

    What a load of crap. MS basically proved that Europe can be treated equal as long as there is the will to do it.

    EDIT: Equal launch date + equal release dates for games.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 10:10

  • Pedrolot #13 4 years ago

    The only way around this other then is if English speaking EU countries get their own store.

    Which isnt going to be happening. :(

  • notorious_roy #14 4 years ago

    Well, I'm from Holland, but I want to play my games in English. The only games that should be localised are games like Wii Fit, Brain Training, Nintendogs, Eyetoy, Buzz, etc. Games for the whole family. All other games in English please. I HATE the waiting.

  • OnlyMe #15 4 years ago

    Bartacus: when the manual's been localized. ;)

    The source of the problems lies with the governments of the countries that require everything to be localized to their language. Remove that rule, and we'll get games quicker, as less developers will be willing to localize. As it stands now, the developers are forced to localize their games, and to keep a healthy market, they have to release the game at the same time across europe. Unless we want the local shops to stop taking in games, we really want to support them by buying them in store (at least occasionally). By releasing the game in the UK (and countries that doesn't require localization) first, many of not most of the gamers will just order from there, and thus deprive your local stores of a sale - and if this becomes the norm, they will simply stop offering games.

  • jonsaan #16 4 years ago

    I am sure most EU countries would like the option to go with the English Language version from day one too.

  • kincaide #17 4 years ago

    Does this explain why Europe doesn't get the 80gb bc PS3?

  • prolific8 #18 4 years ago

    Once they bring out Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer, I'm sure everything will fall into place for them.

    Or not. PS3lol.

  • jonsaan #19 4 years ago

    I know! Maybe Sony could invent a proprietary language that all of us could learn. Problem solved.

  • ToxicTed #20 4 years ago

    '"But even if you talk to Guerilla, Namco, Square Enix, they all do it in English to begin with and then think about localisation later.'

    No, Namco and Square Enix do it in Japanese to begin with, then localize it into English. So why not localize it into the other languages at the same time? Shouldn't be to hard if you try. In fact, it should be much easier doing it all at the same time.

  • The_Inquisitor #21 4 years ago

    If we have to wait while they localise these games for the European market, why do we have to put up with the awful American voice acting in some games. Why can't they use the time to improve the voices, add some 'U's and exchange some 'Z's for 'S's. We're getting the short end of the stick.

  • Beano #22 4 years ago

    "How do others manage it then? "

    I agree completely.

    It's not surprise or news that localisation is the main reason for delays (especially on PSN releases) but if they Sony, and their partners, can't cope with it, then stop making this a requirement and release in English. Seems to work just fine for Microsoft. Idiots!!

  • Beano #23 4 years ago

    @prolific8 : Old

  • Kiigan #24 4 years ago

    That explains why doing European versions adds delays (obviously) but it doesn't explain why they'd still go ahead and release the US versions early. If they wanted to, they could release simultaneously by delaying until all versions are ready, and thereby avoid pissing off anyone. They just don't want to.

  • brainbird #25 4 years ago

    Considering the quality of some translations it's a wonder it takes more than two days of work.
    Exception: Nintendo. Always brilliant translations.

    And, of course, what about the games coming out in Europe 6 months after the initial release overseas... WITHOUT TRANSLATION!!?

  • prolific8 #26 4 years ago

    Just because it's old doesn't mean he should be allowed to forget it. We're still talking about the same console here.

  • AcidSnake #27 4 years ago

    Does this explain why Europe doesn't get the 80gb bc PS3?
    Well duh, do you know how long it takes to translate "backwards compatibility"!?

  • WinterSnowblind #28 4 years ago

    This is one of the reasons why I've supported the Xbox more than any other system; they don't treat us like crap.

    Sony seems to think we don't mind waiting and then getting lesser stuff, but Nintendo just seems to be pointing and laughing at us. I love Nintendo, I love the Wii and I love the DS, but I'm really struggling to support them this time around, especially after Smash Brothers. Almost every single one of my DS games is an import, and next time they release a console, I think I'll just get a US one, and import all the games.

  • Canyarion #29 4 years ago

    "How much can I get for a Dutch version of the game?"

    Bad example. Most (if not all) Dutch gamers understand English really well. And we usually experience Dutch translations as kiddy or annoying.

    I recently bought Half-Life 2. At first there was no option to install it in English, so I had to go with the Dutch version. The translation (just text) was terrible. Luckily I quickly found out how to switch to English.


    But I can imagine it's different with French/Spanish/Italian/German translations...

  • richardiox #30 4 years ago

    How long does it take to translate a Dualshock 3?

  • JonFE #31 4 years ago

    They choose to release games across the whole EU region for various reasons (logistics, ratings, advertisement etc.) and since they -rightfully- support localization, but cannot manage/influence/force it simultaneously, then we have to wait.

    I'm afraid they won't start releasing games to UK first, just because you want them to. You may find it easy to look down on German or French markets, but no real businessman would pass on the opportunity to capitalize on them.

    It would be more feasible to ask Sony to take a lesson from MS on this one :)

    PS. Isn't it ironic that you complain about having to wait for the games, yet you didn't complain actively (with your wallets I mean, assuming Sony's European sales claim the other day is correct) having to wait for the console itself?

  • Widge #32 4 years ago

    Hm, I think I see what would happen here. The UK would get the english speaking games in, those who want to from Europe would import from the UK, the software houses would think "why bother spending money on additional EU language support since a big part of the market is gone already" and then non-English speaking countries lose out.

    Its a pain, and the best solution so far has been to head off to the good old US for games instead. English and ahead of the EU!

  • Mr_Dodger #33 4 years ago

    Well, I'm from Holland, but I want to play my games in English. The only games that should be localised are games like Wii Fit, Brain Training, Nintendogs, Eyetoy, Buzz, etc. Games for the whole family. All other games in English please. I HATE the waiting.

    This is something that I've heard an awful lot from other EU countries.

    As an example, how much 'localisation' did Everyday Shooter require? A few lines of text? and yet it was nearly six months behind the US.

    Going back to the comment above from notorious_roy, I'd like to see an experiment. Release ONE non localised game on all the EU stores at the same time as the US version. Have a statement on the non-English stores saying "Please note: this is the ENGLISH version. A French/German etc version will be released at a later date. Please do not download unless you want the ENGLISH version."

    I bet an awful lot of people would grab it, as the percentage of English speaking in the EU is very high. Also, as with Everyday Shooter, it doesn't matter what language it's in.

    How hard would it be to release an English version, then a free 'language patch' later on?

    The localisation EXCUSE is simply that - an excuse.

  • Beano #34 4 years ago

    "How long does it take to translate a Dualshock 3? "

    You have to consider that the controller rumbles in different frequencies for different European counties... that's common sense :)

  • GamesConnoisseur #35 4 years ago

    I m laughing, as you see Europe is Sony' best market and a runaway success over X360 but still do not count enough to get localisations done on day one of dev?! Sony could influence for this to happen?

    I did always wonder why we have six months, a year delay for 'localisation' when we could have been given option 'US English version is ready if you want that?'

  • miiiguel #36 4 years ago

    Oh my god! It's rumble is last gen all over again..., it's hopeless these guys are compulsive liars.

  • menage #37 4 years ago

    And I'm NEVER buying a stupid Dutch version EVER. They translate some trailers into Dutch and it's the worst thing I ever heard. STOP DOING THAT!

  • penhalion #38 4 years ago

    Now explain to me why England has to wait.

  • Moogrose #39 4 years ago

    whats a bit funny about his example is that here in holland you usually only get english games, only kids games get dutch translations - for the rest, 99% of the time, you don't even have an option for dutch.

    what a silly man.

  • ps3owner #40 4 years ago

    I am a localisation engineer :) (admit it, you all wanted to know that ;))

    guess what. it's difficult to do UNLESS the producer of the game plans for the localisation in the first place it will be difficult to extract the text. Resource files usually do the trick (MS). that stores all of the strings in a separate file and makes it easy to localise. however there is testing involved. You may have noticed (or maybe not) that French/German is about 30% longer than English. Japanese is shorter. So unless the developers consider (know) that (which they don't most of the time), the strings will be cut off. Cut off strings is no use really. Testing costs a lot of money and is not taken seriously either by the way. you may have noticed that most of the "old" games work out of the box, whereas everything new works ... eventually after several patches have have been applied to it.

    EA does tests on an 8 week* basis and 24/7 at that. As soon as the time is up the game is released, whether it works or not. it will then be patched accordingly.

    Also, there is a difference to US English and UK English. Maybe that's the reason why it takes some time to "localise" the game to UK english, especially if it's being developed in the US. It's preference really. but trust me if I say that software is translated from US english to UK English or vise versa quite a lot of times.

    Overall it's the developers own fault. Most companys that develop software (not games) don't think about any other market than the US market. If they do remember that we live in a globalized economy it usually comes at a stage where localising costs outweigh the benefits.
    So the simple solution is to re-write the software for the next release and then release the multilingual version.

    sorry for the long post.

    *Not sure about exact number of weeks, could be more/less depending on game

  • Crovax20 #41 4 years ago

    Screw you i don't want a dutch version. Keep sending english towards the netherlands. I hate it when my games are in dutch

  • tomkuryakin #42 4 years ago

    The problem with European gamers importing US versions is that it articficially inflates US sales figures and thereby the value of the US market and artficially deflates European sales figures and the value of the European market. This means that there's even less incentive for developers to put time, effort and money into localisation, or even to release certain games in Europe at all. Importing just makes the whole situation worse for everyone.

  • hiddenranbir #43 4 years ago

    I thought Sony were stopping this localisation bullshit.

  • KayJay #44 4 years ago

    Import.

    The world is a very small place nowadays and their is plenty of on-line stores that deliver sometimes quicker than some UK retailers and the price is usually a couple of quid cheaper...

    I have had my DS3 for about 6-7 months now. I got it cheaper than the Probable UK RRP.

    Same with the PSN Store its sooooo easy to set yourself up with a US/Jap/HK PSN account there is nothing stopping you getting any of the demos or games release elsewhere...


  • TheWretched #45 4 years ago

    I don't care if my games are german or not... I ALWAYS play them in english! F*ck that... release that sh*t on time and be done with it...

    You don't want to tell me, that Pain took half a year to translate... Or that FFXII needed 9 months (or whatever)? Especially since most of those games aren't even dubbed, but only subbed!

    Thank god, the PS3 is region free!

  • RazorObsession #46 4 years ago

    lets face it, English is heading towards being a global language anyway, like Esperanto failed to do, and if it isn't someones first language, wisdom dictates that its the second. obviously i'm biased, being an English English-speaker, but it would still be true if I wasn't.

    Perhaps it would be best for all if games just came out in English. it would be an incentive to learn the language and good practice for anyone who cant pull themselves away from the video games to pick up an English text book and do their homework anyway.

    Plus it would be another thing the English can throw in the face of our French and German cousins, in the spirit of competitive friendly racism that pretty much permeates everything since world war 2.

    2 world wars and 1 world cup and all video games ever etc.

  • kangarootoo #47 4 years ago

    "I don't care if my games are german or not... I ALWAYS play them in english! F*ck that... release that sh*t on time and be done with it..."

    I'm not sure really sure that any dev can really determine the path of their business on the basis that one angry gamer somewhere always plays his games in English.

  • Irien #48 4 years ago

    Speaking as a software developer, I've never understood the need for day-one translations. Most of my european customers are happy using software in English. It makes sense to launch in English immediately, and soak up the benefit of worldwide press coverage.

    After launch, working with localisation companies/distributors can be far more effective. For a slice of the profits, many companies seem happy to work on localisation and distribution, usually doing a better job than in-house localisation. Once this is released, any users wishing for native language versions can grab those versions.

    For games, it is even more sensible - with the exception of RPGs and adventures, most games have minimal linguistic entry requirements, and the human brain is remarkably good at dealing with this. Try logging on to japanese xbox live to download stuff. Even though you don't speak the language, you can figure out what to do.

  • optimusprym8 #49 4 years ago

    correction, Mandarin is giong to be the global language so you all need to start learning it.

  • Carlo #50 4 years ago

    So sell English Language ONLY games when you release USA ones, and let all the non-Englash speakers wait for translations.

  • Carlo #51 4 years ago

    ...Or take off the FUCKING SHIT REGION LOCKING (you cunts!)

  • besteman #52 4 years ago

    joining the 'stop translating stuff in dutch' crowd. it sounds horrible.

  • GitSomE_UK #53 4 years ago

    On Playstation day earlier this week...

    Sony: "PAL territories are really important to us"

    ... Just not that important.

  • Xerx3s #54 4 years ago

    ps3owner: That may be all nice and truth but it doesn't stop ms from releasing most 1st and 3rd party within 2 weeks of their american release. Most 1st party things are released in all territories in a week, localised and all. They prove that it can be done.

    But even looking past that, your point basically comes down to: it's a matter of planning - which it obviously is - but they simply don't think it's important enough to take into account.

  • groovychainsaw #55 4 years ago

    Thats interesting ps3owner, the reason that microsoft have quicker localisation is they force developers to put the text in a seperate file and allow for this up front? I'm surprised sony haven't looked at this and adopted this practice, it seems obvious (and microsoft are significantly quicker at bringing games to europe). Maybe its the classic western/eastern programming divide. Western seems to be much more controlled and code-focussed, whereas eastern seems more concerned with overall concept and look. Would explain why sony (and particularly nintendo!!) are always late with translations.

  • ps3owner #56 4 years ago

    @ carlo

    buy a PS3 and you have no region issues :)

    @Irien

    I agree. only speak english + german, however I can find my way around pretty much every language setup... apart from Arabic. sorry, RTL is just a little difficult + the squiggels are not exactly readable anyway.

  • Carlo #57 4 years ago

    @ps3owner

    I have one. Region locking for updates and online still happen. It's not a solution!

  • wewillselfdestruct #58 4 years ago

    optimusprym8 said "If any of you actually worked in a games company [that dealt with localised versions], you'd all STFU."

    +1

    Games are released as SKUs (stock keeping units). North America will have one SKU that contains US English and possibly French and/or Spanish. Japan will get one that may either have audio translated into Japanese or contain Japanese subtitles. But Europe has a lot of different languages that have to be considered, although the normal ones are EFIGS (English, French, Italian, German, Spanish). (France especially has very strict laws regarding the language that appears in a game.) Because the Euro SKU has all of these languages companies can't simply release the game in England and let the rest of the continent wait (although it does happen from time to time - Orange Box on PS3, anybody?). Historically this used to be why so many Japanese games took so long to appear over here (think of all the text in some Japanese RPGs for an extreme example). However these days it is less and less of a problem. Most companies factor localisation into their production schedules. Incidentally, this is also why Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have to approve games in each region individually rather than just looking at the US SKU and allowing publishers to release to the whole world.

    Since it turns out the games don't magically translate themselves into other languages and it can take time to go through the process, it's really not all that surprising that games sometimes get released in Japan or America weeks or months before Europe since the publisher will want to start getting some return on their investment. Yes it's true - making computer games is a business like any other. It's not a bunch of benevolent billionaires sitting around who are only interested in making games tailored to each of our personal preferences for no money whatsoever. Sucks, huh?

    Or whatever really. That's the reason and you could be grateful it's less of an issue than it used to be but I suspect some of you are so well informed they're going to continue telling Reeves to go fuck himself for treating Europe like shit. It's like you're campaigning for the little guy - you rawk!

  • Beano #59 4 years ago

    @Carlo : What region-locking?

    PS3 games are region free.

  • ps3owner #60 4 years ago

    MS is a huge company.

    think about it, an independent games developer isn't particularly interested in localising their product. They release it in English and see where it goes/how it sells. If good enough they may consider the localised version. However as mentioned before. Unless they use a predefined set of tools that has localisation build in (.NET for example) they may not even think about localisation. most game engines are custom builds. MS is pretty much based on .NET and it allows smooth localisation.

  • Jammin24 #61 4 years ago

    It seems interesting that in The Playstation Day speech by Mr Reeves it was noted that Europe had bought roughly 5 Million Ps3's and that he was proud of this fact as that means the PS3 is more popular here than the XBOX 360.
    Does that mean that finally Sony will listen to the European Market more often regarding the PSN network where we have to wait month's on end for downloads already on US PSN and Japan? (PAIN and Echochrome spring to mind) and that in general as we take the lions share of PS3's here in Europe that Sony should generally treat us better than we have been treated so far as we seem to have more Ps3's here so you would assume that we should take some priority with regards to releases and hardware.
    Maybe i am wrong

  • Luvbeers #62 4 years ago

    The Dutch would play the english version anyway.

  • wewillselfdestruct #63 4 years ago

    @ DiamondIce

    Actually they speak US English. To save the effort of "translating" that into UK English, most games will be released in US English over here. So expect to see less "u"s and more "z"s in your English games than you might expect.

  • L42yB #64 4 years ago

    Bullcrap

  • bu5hhead #65 4 years ago

    If it takes so long to translate from say Japanese to English, why is it that the translations always suck arse?

  • Artemus #66 4 years ago

    It's the PS3 Store that is the problem. Retail PS3 games are usually only a few weeks behind the US. And if there is a long wait, I'll just import.

  • Lemming81 #67 4 years ago

    We KNOW how localisation works you pillock.

    What we are asking for is to just release the English version that we know is really the US version us lot in the UK end up with anyway, and all those Europeans fluent in English (ie. most of them) have the choice to buy the English version from a UK outlet like Amazon.co.uk etc if they don't want to wait for the localised version.

    Also, this doesn't excuse the fact that Australia gets it after Europe more often than not.

  • Hughes. #68 4 years ago

    This almost makes me want to vote for UKIP.

    Not really, but I speak a similar language to Americans, why the fuck should I have to wait months for a Flemish translation of a PSN game?

    David Reeves opens his gob to swap feet again.

  • dominalien #69 4 years ago

    In Poland the Playstation store is in English. You get a message when you try to access it asking if you want to see it even though it is not in Polish.

    Back in the day, no-one localised games for Poland, ever. These days it happens, but still we have a large group of gamers who learned English this way and since the Polish localisations are crap usually, many prefer to play games in English anyhow.

    So, there are at least two countries in Europe where SCEE publishes English-language games - the UK and Poland. UK has over 60 million people, Poland has almost 40 million. That's a 100 million market!

  • optimusprym8 #70 4 years ago

    most Europeans (other than people in UK) cannot buy from Amazon.uk for English versions as it's mostly only UK who typically tend to own credit cards and other EU forms of payment aren't accepted as widely

  • bitesize #71 4 years ago


    the reason they don't just release things in england at the same time as the US, then release localised versions later is because it would completely destroy the market for the localised versions. keen gamers across europe will just import the UK version, when the localised versions trickle out months later, no-one's gonna buy them. makes it completely non-cost effective to do localised versions at all (all those translators, different language voice actors, recording studios etc don't pay for themselves).

    what people often fail to realise about this issue is that the script for a game is often the last thing to get locked down - games vary during development, bits get cut out so lines have to get added to cutscenes to explain, bits get added in etc. generally it's only once the script is locked down that translation can start. sure you could start transaltion earlier but then you've got a complex job trying to manage what's been translated + what hasn't, and when things change you have to get the re-translated - it's generally much easier to get it all done at once.

    the reason some people do manage a simultaneous worldwide release is generally cos the US version is delayed while translation is done. the probably could release the US version sooner but opt to wait til a worldwide release can be done...

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #72 4 years ago

    @optimusprym8:

    "If any of you actually worked in a games company [that dealt with localised versions], you'd all STFU."

    I DO work for a games dev company that works with localisation and I happen to agree with most of the comments on here.

    We're a primarily English speaking country so I see no reason (from a gamer AND a development point of view) why we're not included in the same region as the US. It's not the English versions that cause the delays, it's the alternatives.

    While I'm saying that, however, while we are still included in the same region as Europe it's really the project managers that are at fault for the delays. They're the ones not including enough time in the development cycle for translation.

  • Skywise #73 4 years ago

    I'm from Holland and wouldn't mind an English version sooner than the localised one.

    But a localised version is needed ALWAYS. Even the most terrible B-movies have dutch subtitles,
    so why on earth doesn't a game like Super Mario Galaxy have a dutch language option :S

  • teabagger #74 4 years ago

    Generally speaking....

    US disk = one language.
    European disk = multiple languages on a single disk, hence having to wait for localisation into all languages before we get the Euro english game. Also, each localisation has to go through Q&A which creates extra delays compared to US release.

    Also, on a side note this also creates problems for hardware. Any hardware sold in the US only has to go through a single certification process. Any hardware released in Europe has to go through loads - one per country - which obviously takes time and can lead to delays.

    There are more things that can be done to speed up the process as David Reeves points out. Essentially though, it's mostly just an unfortunate side effect of being part of a multi language region. If anyone feels geographically unlucky you could always move to the states to have your games a little earlier, I'm sure you'll just love it there.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 12:22

  • Machetazo #75 4 years ago

    To run on from the sarcastic vibe from some comments, and in the vein of these insightful testimonies we've been offered here, I think publishers enjoy trying their luck with Europe. They enjoy seeing how many weeks and months they can hold out before all established interest and care about their product dissipates - there's probably a makeshift wallchart somewhere, that gets referred to, and adjusted accordingly, once every staff member's birthday. I'll help you all out... Come on in boat Bad Company, your time's up! o_o (ffs, I was astonished this morning, to see my RSS reader, flag up a preview of the local version!)

  • menage #76 4 years ago

    @Skywise

    Dutch kids should just play the shit in English. I didn't care when I was 8. And it only made my English a lot better in the long run. Translating only makes them lazy:p

  • bdc #77 4 years ago

    Just separate the UK from the mainland, it's not fair that we have to wait just because of the other countries.

  • steoc4 #78 4 years ago

    We don't actually have to wait for many games though do we? It seems to be another of those myths going around that doesn't have a whole lot of substance to it. I can't name a single major PS3 game that took more than a couple of weeks to get from the US to Europe, and of course the machine is region free if that bothers you.

    Europe even gets a lot of games early. I know we got Gran Turismo before the US, same goes for Formula 1 and Singstar, and possibly Motorstorm I think. There was a couple of weeks delay for Ratchet and Uncharted but that's about as bad as it's been, most games are pretty close to simultaneous releases and we seem to get as many things before the US as we get after them. Of course we're all lagging behind Japan but localisation from a language with an entirely different structure and alphabet can cause bigger technical issues so it's to be expected that this can take a bit longer.

    Nintendo are generally a lot worse when it comes to this, and of course Square are worst of all but that's to be expected with the amount of text in their games.


  • SlackMaster #79 4 years ago

    If being fair to the rest of Europe is the excuse why not just hold out releasing the game in the US and then when localisation is done for the European version release them all at the same time.

    So what your saying is it's ok that the US get things first but we have to wait in the UK...

  • actionfitz #80 4 years ago

    @Carlo
    ...Or take off the FUCKING SHIT REGION LOCKING (you cunts!)

    Amen.

  • mezzomorto #81 4 years ago

    Sorry if this post is boring to some but if you want to know more about the challenges facing localisation, read on (otherwise just skip it)
    Most development Studios do not allocate enough time/ resources to the localisation effort while they're focusing on getting the English version done, which makes simshipping the localised SKUs very tough whether it be in an external or internal localisation model (and this goes someway to explaining why some translations are crap). If you want localised versions to hit the market sooner then dev teams need to beef up their budget and resources (which in turn could mean higher prices for the end user, etc)

    Also what Reeves doesn't say is that Sony is the IMO the worst offender when it comes to lacking a common approval policy for SCEA,SCEE, and SCEJ. Unlike MS, SCEE doesn't accept the argument that just because the NA SKU was approved with x amount of issues, the European SKU should also be treated according to the same criteria. This can cause additional weeks of delay while the Loc team have to go back the game developers (just when they thought they were about to embark on some well deserved rest) and get them to fix these Europe-specific issues (and lets not even start on the Japanese approval process).
    (MS apply a "one policy fits all" aaproach and consider that if a bug was not flagged during the NA submission, then the same should apply to Europe).
    Re European markets, due to a vile piece of legislation called the "Toubon" law, you couldn't even release a downloadable game to the French market if it wasn't fully localised.

  • TriggerHippie #82 4 years ago

    "Importing just makes the whole situation worse for everyone."

    Except for the gamers that have learned over decades that its best to import if they don't want to wait a year for that RPG they had their eyes on to make it over here from the US. If it ever gets here at all.

    I'm just glad that this generation I haven't been forced to buy an imported console, or that others so inclined aren't finding themselves chipping their consoles to play the shoddy unoptimised offerings we've had to put up with in the past.

  • actionfitz #83 4 years ago

    @bitesize
    08-May-08 11:59:01

    "the reason they don't just release things in england at the same time as the US, then release localised versions later is because it would completely destroy the market for the localised versions."

    A bit late for that argument... so the non region locked PS3 is now destroying the UK market with everyone ordering US titles early?
    or perhaps we will have to wait and see that impact.
    I appreciate the need for Localisation... but regoin locking FUCKS ME OFF bigtime.
    Its the whole 'Harmonix/EA - 6 months late game priced 3 times that of the USA mentality. money grabbing bastards.
    Sort of folks who need to spend the remainder of their lives locked in a room with the mutated member of a serial dog rapist wedged deep in their colons, twice daily...
    or words to that effect. heh.
    On XBOX its the Developer/publisher that regoin locks the games btw - i have plenty of region free xbox 360 games from playasia.com dead rising etc...

  • bitesize #84 4 years ago

    A bit late for that argument... so the non region locked PS3 is now destroying the UK market with everyone ordering US titles early?

    no, that's not what i said at all. importing from a completely separate region across a whole big ocean is a bit different from importing from say, england to france (same region). see the many europeans on this thread saying they'd get a UK version if it came out early...

  • wewillselfdestruct #85 4 years ago

    @ Mezzomorto

    Amen.

  • iWolf #86 4 years ago

    What about the hardware Reeves (lack of DS3, inferior SKU's)? How do you explain that one eh?

  • ruttyboy #87 4 years ago

    Re: Toubon

    I generally like French people but I do find their institutionalised fear of the English language quite amusing. I can imagine a crazy African dictator installing a similar law :D

  • WillyWanka #88 4 years ago

    Seems like most people on here don't use Queen's English anyway. It's localised, there's no "zee". Farking americaniZation!

  • SpyroViper #89 4 years ago

    I say release the US and UK versions on time and hold back the other ones untill they are done. Don't delay a game a month or so just to satisfy the Minority, since almost half of the World's population speak or can speak/understand english.

  • Jheronimus #90 4 years ago

    Well, I'm freaking Dutch and I just want the English version of a game... Localisation sucks!

    /has to play FIFA08 in bloody Spanish because the Dutch commentators are really, really annoying

  • RazorObsession #91 4 years ago

    optimusprym8: the sleeping dragon you reckon? interesting.

  • 2099net #92 4 years ago

    How come, on the whole, Xbox games seem to manage to ship in Europe with small release delay windows? Why should PS3 developers be allowed to be more lax with their development. Christ, Mass Effect has more speech and text than any game I know, and it wasn't delayed in Europe.

  • teabagger #93 4 years ago

    "I say release the US and UK versions on time and hold back the other ones untill they are done. "

    Gah! But that's just the point; there is no 'UK' version. There is a US version and a European version, hence we have to wait for localisation and then QA for the each of the other European languages.

    *Bangs head on desk*

  • Miths #94 4 years ago

    How many localized European versions are we typically talking about anyway? Here in Scandinavia we've always been gaming in English (and I would frankly be more than a little pissed if I ever had to suffer through a Danish translation of a game, it's bad enough - or occasionally hilarious - that the manuals for console games are in Danish these days), and doesn't the same thing apply to several of the other small European countries?

    Surely there must also be just a tad more than a handful of German, French and Spanish people who understand enough English to decide to buy English versions of PSN games if they were initially released across Europe in that language - or if they don't, wait until the localized versions are ready later and made available in specific stores.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 16:03

  • Skywise #95 4 years ago

    @menage: I was always watching the british cartoons because I preferred them to the dutch ones. But still, I'd like gaming to be as broad as movies and for that localisation is needed. In this EA might be an example for all :-)

  • oreillymj #96 4 years ago

    I'm pretty sure the French would not accuse Reeves on being Anglo-centric

    More like ....
    Vous êtes plein de marde

    Thank you google

    http://www. google.ie/language_tools?hl=en

  • SpyroViper #97 4 years ago

    "optimusprym8: the sleeping dragon you reckon? interesting."

    a Little boy who is somehow fond of Transformers yet mysteriously infatuated with fiddling with prym8s??

    :p just kidding

  • 4thVariety #98 4 years ago

    They should stop translating altogether, if the Japanese developers understood some of the European translations, they would kill themselves in disgrace.

    Even the German version of Crysis is horrific and that game was developed in Germany for crying out loud. The state of translations in Europe is one big cl@$t3rf@kk.

  • menage #99 4 years ago

    @Skywise.

    I don't mind localizations. If I still have the option to switch to English. Not like Burnout Revenge thank you. And minus the waiting then:p



    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 16:45

  • JonFE #100 4 years ago

    rdexter, hit it on the head with a sledgehammer:
    "Would be interesting to hear in which language you would complain if Konami released MGS4 earlier but only in Japanese then."

  • Madlax #101 4 years ago

    People need to relax, the PS3 is region-free import your games from the US.

    You even get them cheaper by importing. ;)

  • Skywise #102 4 years ago

    @Menage: looks like we agree then. I play all games in English as well and I'd prefer an English version sooner than the rest too.
    Or wait with the UK version and give us a British language option. I'm sick of American accents in games :D

    The waiting time for European releases really sucks, the publishers need to sort it out or I might play pirated games instead of buying them. A friend of mine has a modded Wii and he can play Smash Bros Brawl already. Why are paying customers still waiting?
    Edited by 2 at 08/05/08 @ 17:16

  • pervertron #103 4 years ago

    Localisation is not just about translating into different languages, it's also about checking through legal requirements of the region, preparing marketing, distribution agreements etc etc. The only way that Microsoft and other simultaneous releasers do it is to hold back the versions until they're all ready...

    ... so quit whining!

  • optimusprym8 #104 4 years ago

    SpyroViper: Stumpy from teh Shire?

    anyway, "z" is actually correct usage of British English believe it or not. It was only changed to "s" in the Victorian period / 18thC but has remained that way since, now being seen as the "proper" English.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 17:26

  • YourMessageHere #105 4 years ago

    Three things: First, isn't it a platform holder's prerogative to set the specification for their platform? Like for example requiring all developers to provide regionalised versions at launch, rather than just if they feel like it, as a condition of certification. Isn't it basically something Sony (or MS or Nintendo) could require devs to do and thus get rid of the problem? Then they could have one disc for the whole world.

    Second, why does all of Europe warrant only one disc? Why not make all games include the original language and the language of the country it's sold in - make an English language disc for the UK (and apparently Poland) and release a French disc for France, German disc for Germany, Spanish for Spain etc and for a Japanese made game, include Japanese on all of them, for games made in English, include English and so on. Presumably the sales droids know how much things sell in whatever country; or are you going to tell me there's just one giant warehouse in Europe from which generic european discs are dispatched?

    Third, why is it better to have all of Europe baying for your blood than just the ones who want to play in French and German?

    And what about other countries that speak none of these languages? What languages are currently in games released in Portugal and Hungary?

  • Ryuken #106 4 years ago

    'How much can I get for a Dutch version of the game?'

    As others have said, that's a very poor example. Games which are translated in Dutch (without English voice/text) are considered to be downright ridiculous. Providing Dutch subtitles is another matter but dubbing everything just sounds ridiculous in Dutch, period.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 18:02

  • Feanor #107 4 years ago

    It's all Greek to me.

  • tobberh #108 4 years ago

    Just release the English version first and people who are too stupid can wait for the localization...

  • VMerken #109 4 years ago

    'How much can I get for a Dutch version of the game?'

    HAHAHA. Seeing Freek has done the honours for Holland further below, I'll speak on behalf of Belgium:

    Reeves, are you talking about those versions which, 98% of the time, contains the US/UK English version of the game with an added Babelfish'd manual and backcover?

    Well, those cost basically as much as the US/UK version sans the Babelfishing. I know, pinching pennies is hard. Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, but I've been a gamer for a LONG time and Dutch localisations which have been handled well beyond the manual are either very, very rare or come from a Dutch/Belgian developer.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 21:49

  • Royal Fool #110 4 years ago

    Once again, Reeves proves how utterly disconnected he is from the consumers. How the fuck does he even manage to keep his job...?

  • sega #111 4 years ago

    What about Australia? They're not part of Europe, they speak English yet have to wait even longer than Europe. I'm not Australian but notice they get a worse deal than us there.

  • Freek #112 4 years ago

    "How much can I get for a Dutch version of the game?"

    Let me just speak on behalf of The Netherlands here:

    WE.DO.NOT.WANT.YOUR.SHITTY.LOCALISED.VERSIONS!

    English does not, I repeat NOT translate well at all into Dutch. It's a horrible mess of shitty catchphrases and t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e voice actors. It's unplayably bad.
    We understand english just fine, even the kids, and prefer it in all our games. Please do not go out of your way to try and get it localised as we'll actually try to avoide that crappy version of the game and import via the UK, from places like Play.
    Edited by 1 at 08/05/08 @ 20:53

  • hahayou #113 4 years ago

    Really, who cares what language a game is in? All we really need are some universal icons for start, quit, save, load etc and that's fine. While living in mainland Europe and importing from Japan I've played plenty of games in languages I don't speak, and it's never bothered me - I think cutting the text/voice out altogether would hurt very few games.

  • Dizzy #114 4 years ago

    Strange that other companies can manage this.

  • BartonFink #115 4 years ago

    How long does it take to translate a Dualshock 3?

    lol

    Both Sony and Nintendo are deplorable when it comes to delays for localisation.
    Reeves is talking shite as usual.

  • Mock #116 4 years ago

    Seriously amuses me that a great deal of ignorant people on these forums think MS/Sony/Nintendo are responsible for releasing titles that aren't owned by them.

    Publishers make these choices, not the "big three".

    (unless of course it's their own game, and that's subjective too, an SCEI game may not be brought on board and published by SCEE/SCEA anyway, it's fair game for any publisher to bid for an unpublished title)

  • Grayvern #117 4 years ago

    @ mock were talking here about PSN and Live Arcade games as well and Microsoft and Sony do have a lot of controll over this.

    Also Sony Microsoft and Nintendo all have to agree to a game being published on their system if I'm not wrong. So Microsoft probably is responsible for simultaneous releases because it leans on those who make and publish the games.


  • neilmc #118 4 years ago

    I live in Italy where the quality of voiceover work is truly abysmal in all the spoken media. Fortunately most games have the original language soundtrack in addition to the Italian version, but there are some exceptions: the Call of Duty series and Halo in particular. The problem is that you can never be absolutely sure before you actually play the game because details are not given about the languages available on the game box (apart from Nintendo products). The vast majority of Italians do not have a good level of English and so you find Italians actually preferring the awful dubbing (and believing it's good as well) rather than accepting subtitles. So in my opinion, and in particular for Italy, localisation is an evil and wicked thing that should be eradicated from the face of the Earth.

  • Mock #119 4 years ago

    @Grayvern

    They issue product codes and initially approve titles to appear on the platform, after that it's up to the publisher.

    In Europe less control is given over publishers (i.e. publishers have more rights) because of European law. It's a complicated situation and the problem with what's been said is that it's been said too simply, to try and allow people to understand the issues. It falls short because nobody really wants to hear the true answers, the legal reasons and the business decisions that are made behind consumers backs.

    It's not as cut and dried as "release it".

    Marketing budgets alone mean publishers spend millions per territory, and sometimes it's down to money issues. Sometimes it's down to market placement, product competition etc etc.

    There is no single cause for this.
    Edited by 1 at 09/05/08 @ 10:11

  • Darren #120 4 years ago

    I can't understand why we don't get games at the same time as the US... I mean here in the UK we speak the same language and I'd be willing to put up with American spellings if it meant getting the games at the same time. Surely it should be the non-English speaking countries that should have to wait for localisation not us? :?

    Anyway, as far as the PS3 goes, its games are region-free anyway which means you can import them rather than wait... and get them cheaper too! I picked up the superb MLB 08: The Show for £30 a couple of months back for example and got UTIII on the PS3 for the same price before Christmas as well.

  • MGG #121 4 years ago

    Speaking as an experienced developer that has encountered this problem a few times before, the reason for language dealys is usually the same: bad management. Thats right folks, the game industry is full of managers who can't manage. If you want to find a good manager, a usually reliable rule of thumb is to spot a producer that has worked on more than 1 AAA+ hit title. (S)He knows what they are doing, and in my experience, they are the ones who have translations ready to go much much earlier in the project.

    @Mock - Platform owners do get to release a list of rules that developers have to comply with to release games on their platform - Sony being quite stringent in most other areas. Would it be too hard for them to include localisation for the major markets in these rules? As others have mentioned, MS seem to manage quite well.......

  • menschenfracht #122 4 years ago

    'In A.D. 2008 a game was coming.
    Somebody set up us the localisation!'

    or Why releasing an US version seems like a bad idea.

    In the first place, a great deal of people (casual players) would choose to buy a badly localised version instead of a better A-meh-ree-kan one. Maybe you should ask some sellers in the non-Germanic countries, how The Sims series have been selling before and after translation. Yeah, mostly all the time the translation sucks (I would never forget 'Donnie Darko', where the translator took 'Big Bang' for 'Big Ben'). But, hell, good localisation needs a great deal of time - at least five or six versions - and i'm speaking about one language here. And if one localisation kit changes, testers need to recheck all the versions. It's extremely expensive, I know. But it is the only reliable way of releasing a localised game. You never know where the bug, caused simply by different memory usage (in extreme cases cyrillics uses twice more memory space), may appear.

    But, if a console allows for software piracy, the delay between US and Europe versions would mean considerable loss of money. That's why Microsoft rushes for it, folks, it has nothing to do with their sense of dignity or whatever. That's one of the reasons why they were in the red all these years.


    Secondly, all this rant about Eenglish version seems a bit egocentric, don't it? Why in the world didn't you buy an US console? Why don't you buy your games at Ebay or Amazon if you want to play in English only? Why don't you try Japanese (From personal experience, even AA titles like Crisis Core contain some insane English sentences with Japanese syntax etc.)? The world is bigger than you, your school or your nation. Grow up and learn to understand others.

    And to all you fellow europeans - weren't you ever forced to play and simultaneously interpret the game you're playing to the ones you're playing with (yes, there ARE gamers who don't know English)? Like playing Company of Heroes on-line with someone who doesn't know Support Vehicle from Artillery Support? And did you like it?

    And you, the Dutch and Polish crowd. Don't just sit on forums, do something. Come on, sign a petition: "We, the People of [insert name of the nation here], hereby announce that we do not want to use our language any more. The only language we want to speak is A-meh-ree-kan English or Badly Translated Engrish. We like them, our culture is shite in comparison". I hope pretty much that Brits would help you to draw up that document properly. I can be of no assistance, because I have never spoken English altogether. (Mee is Russian!)



    P.S. If I had a bit of hope, I would recommend some of you to grow up, study linguistics or voice acting and take part in localisation. And yes, I expect that you would translate games in no time, and even a whole university of professors of linguistics won't be able to spot any mistakes. I know you can do it.

    Yours sincerely
    Alexei.

    //edit: wrong formatting
    Edited by 1 at 12/05/08 @ 05:57