PEGI better than BBFC - Microsoft man

By Games Industry.biz Published 27 February, 2008

Games approach versus films approach.

Giving evidence to a Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee this week, Matt Lambert, Microsoft's head of corporate affairs in the UK, stated his belief that the PEGI ratings system was better than the BBFC version, GamesIndustry.biz reports.

When committee chairman John Whittingdale asked Lambert about the apparent confusion for parents over age ratings for videogames - particularly the belief that they represented skill levels instead - Lambert replied that he hadn't seen any evidence of such confusion, and that internal research indicated that 96 per cent of parents were in fact aware of the presence of age ratings.

Instead he pointed to anecdotal evidence which led him to believe parents instead weren't concerned about applying those ratings.

And on the question of which of the two ratings systems that exist in the UK was preferable, Lambert indicated that he believed PEGI was more effective.

"If there's going to be one ratings system, it should be PEGI," he said. "With PEGI, they think very carefully about age appropriacy...but the BBFC is set up to rate films, and it takes that approach for games when a different approach is required.

"PEGI breaks it down to a different level. If there's bad language it will give you a specific symbol, if there's gambling there's another symbol, and some games will have a whole raft of symbols on the back. It's a different depth, it's more sensible, and it also has a European aspect to it."

The chairman then responded to the answer by pointing out that the BBFC itself would contradict such a view - that it believes the PEGI methodology to be inferior, and employs specialists who look at hours of gameplay when coming to a decision.

Lambert replied: "I'm not saying that's wrong, and I apologise if I gave the impression that that's not what they do - though they would say that they are the best.

"But I do believe that the BBFC's thinking clearly comes from the world of film [and not games], that's definitely true."

The CMS Select Committee is examining the effect of violence in videogames and on the Internet, running parallel to the Byron Report, and Lambert was one of a number of industry experts called to give evidence.

GamesIndustry.biz didn't even know the CMS Select Committee thing was about games - it was just there for a day out.

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Comments (28) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • KingOfSpain #1 4 years ago

    Are PEGI rating enforcable by law? It's my understanding that a shop can still sell a 10 year old a 18 PEGI rated game. I may be wrong however!

  • CallousB #2 4 years ago

    I'm not surprised that Microsoft want to keep PEGI ratings.

    BBFC's more recognisable ratings would really show off their lack of titles for anyone outside of the 15/18 age bracket.

  • agparrot #3 4 years ago

    The main problem with the PEGI ratings would be the fact that the public - apparently unable already to understand what the big red '18' means, will have even more trouble identifying, or even noticing, the little black and white PEGI numbers, probably leading to more hysterical GTA-made-me-kill-my-friend BS.

  • X201 #4 4 years ago

    I couldn't believe it last night listening to Today in Parliament when the bloke heading the review said that his review had found that parents see PEGI ratings as similar to the "suitable for ages 3-5 years" that you see on board games. And parents thought that the fact little Johnny had progressed to a PEGI 15 game was some sort of indicator that their child was ahead in it's learning. :o
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/08 @ 10:32

  • conkdonk #5 4 years ago

    PEGI is not enforcable by law. They do offer more helpful advice on content especially for parents who don't mind the children experiencing blood and guts but have strong feelings towards language and sex. But they're both useless. Most parents don't care either way. No parent has ever not brought a BBFC 18 GTA game for their ten year child and picked up a PEGI rated game instead, at least not in the five years I've worked at retail. I warn them the games an 18, describe the content but when the child says 'I've already played it' they don't hesitate in purchasing it. I wish I knew that line when I was a kid.

  • rhinoxious #6 4 years ago

    Dont forget Mass Effect, with its 12 rating and (not so) hot and steamy lurve scene!

  • BillyBrush #7 4 years ago

    BBFC do not rate games like film!

    they rate them like the poor cousin of film

  • dr_shambles #8 4 years ago

    I would have thought a giant '18' emblazoned across the front of the cover and 'Contains strong bloody violence' would be a slight indication of a games content. The one on the front of Bioshock is nearly as big as a drinks coaster.

    People should stop blaming videogames with clearly defined ratings for their own poor parenting skills. Let's start fining a few of them. That'd sort things out.

  • don81 #9 4 years ago

    So there is uproar about games like GTA but we can watch films that are just the same as GTA, with violence and gore, and guns and killing, and yet that is never frowned upon. I lve GTA by the way, and films like saw, and others with 18 certificate. I would class them in the same boat myself. Hate it how they keep going on about how games are worse!!

    Sorry about the rant people.

  • rhinoxious #10 4 years ago

    Yup, that was my experience in games retial.

    A significant proportion of parents don't care what the ratings are, as long as there's no sex.

    The kind of parents who are really bothered simply don't buy their kids games consoles in the first place. It's PC games and maybe a game boy with pokemon for them, but certainly no playing on the living room TV.

    I hate to say it's a social-class thing, but.

    /gets coat.

  • ps3rules890 #11 4 years ago

    I say games need they're own age system
    so perant can't get confuse thinking there
    films and I've seen three differnt age rating
    systems for games.
    let's see now games need info to inform perants
    if it has either sex, swearing, gore, drug use, a crime thyme(don't
    mind the spelling), extra gore or things that scare the shit out us.
    I who isn't 18 have played games all sort of games including over rated ones.
    Trash talk about that
    Edited by 2 at 27/02/08 @ 11:01

  • brooza #12 4 years ago

    @ps3rules890: In English, please.

    Back to the point, I'd have thought that the BBFC ratings are better, particularly for the confusion factor, as people already know what they mean.

  • firefly #13 4 years ago

    I have to say I do agree with the PEGI rating system over the BBFC.

    Whilst I respect part of the BBFC's role I do have to disagree with its history of censorship, not just when it comes to Manhunt but in film rating too (for instance the fact that I've still yet to see how Giles manages to re-start his car in the Buffy episode Dead Man's Party). PEGI seem to be out to promote awareness and enable people to make informed decisions, which is the complete antithesis of the BBFC's "you can't see/play this because we say so" approach.

  • sickpuppysoftware #14 4 years ago

    "The chairman then responded to the answer by pointing out that the BBFC itself would contradict such a view - that it believes the PEGI methodology to be inferior, and employs specialists who look at hours of gameplay when coming to a decision."

    Wouldn't it be better to have a specialist who plays hours of gameplay rather than looks at it?

    No, they don't treat it like film at all, sigh.

  • Tetragammatron #15 4 years ago

    Uhm, of course a Microsoft repe would say PEGI is better. It's not legally enforcable, so regardless what rating is on the cover, anyone can go and buy the games => more revenue. Morality, who needs it!

    @rhinoxious: Typically the types of parent that can't be bothered to actually parent are the ones that spend their Giro on fags and booze, so there's no money for a console anyway! Of course they'd probably just steal one anyway, so...

    /monocle
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/08 @ 11:23

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #16 4 years ago

    @Tetragammatron

    Perhaps you should go to a socially deprived housing area and count the Sky Digital dishes before making judgements about the social class of people who buy massmarket consumer entertainment products. I think Rhinoxious is more accurate in saying that the people who spurn these things are more likely to be the 'chattering classes'.

  • blinder #17 4 years ago

    i had thought that the BBFC ratings would be preferable as they are enforcable by law, whereas the PEGI "who the fuck knows what this symbol means" aren't

    though, the amount of times (prior to my 18th birthday) anyone in an HMV or an Our Price (it was a long time ago) has ever asked my to prove my age has been 0

  • Tetragammatron #18 4 years ago

    You think those dishes are bought? That's funny.

  • FabricatedLunatic #19 4 years ago

    PEGI didn't even put their "fear" symbol on the back of Project Zero 2 or Haunting Ground, just "violence". PEGI LOL

  • Skeletor #20 4 years ago

    Not surprised that the industry would rather see PEGi ratings being the norm - PEGI never refuses classification, BBFC and German USK do. There would have been no problem with Manhunt 2 if submitted to PEGI only.

  • Machetazo #21 4 years ago

    [link url=http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33568
    ]    http://ww w.gamesindustry.biz/content_pag...[/link]

    additional reading: BBFC dispute the value of PEGI - as do I, for that matter.

  • kangarootoo #22 4 years ago

    "Lambert replied that he hadn't seen any evidence of such confusion"

    Well the BBFC have plenty of evidence, if he cares to ask them.

    "and that internal research indicated that 96 per cent of parents were in fact aware of the presence of age ratings"

    That isn't the question you were asked, sneaky marketing man. No doubt they are aware, but the charge is that ratings are misunderstood.

    @firefly

    "which is the complete antithesis of the BBFC's "you can't see/play this because we say so" approach"

    The BBFC's agenda is created by us the general public. The "we say so" approach reflects what the general public want I'm afraid. I'm not saying its ideal, as the majority of the public are a bit too reactive for my tastes, but please can people stop acting like the BBFC make up their own rules.

    They just don't.

  • kangarootoo #23 4 years ago

    @Tetragammatron

    "You think those dishes are bought? That's funny."

    Thats the spirit. When confronted with a factual response, resort to weak humour to avoid the point made. Well done.

  • kangarootoo #24 4 years ago

    Several people have touched on this, but I'd like to add my 2 pence.

    MS don't give a rats ass which board best protects or advises the public, they just like whichever scheme alows them to sell more games to more customers. They prefer PEGI, because it lets them sell more product. That is all.

  • dk_rare #25 4 years ago

    BBFC sounds better than PEGI. BBFC has that "British" sound to it, sounds like something we own. Like the BBC. Except we don't need to hide all our BBFC games when the TV license inspector knocks on my door.

  • MrObycyek #26 4 years ago

    These parents should be locked up for their sheer stupidity. Only an idiot could not understand what the big 18 certificate on a game box means. It also shows the ignorance and stupidity of journalists and politicians who do not address this important point in their many ill-informed tirades against violent games.

  • SixFootHalfling #27 4 years ago

    Makes no difference what age is on games, most parents/store staff don't care anyway, the only time I've ever been asked my age was in Tesco, buying a PEGI 12 rated game, when I was 16, and 6 foot tall. In fact I couldn't stop laughing long enough to show proof of age.

    Also those self service tills don't check unless the game is a BBFC 15, or 18, so if anyone wants to buy PEGI rated games under-age, they simply have to use one of them.
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/08 @ 16:12

  • kangarootoo #28 4 years ago

    @MrObycyek

    Its not really an issue of stupidity, well not directly. Its because many parents still view video games as toys, and hence it just does not occur to them to view the age ratings in the same way they would those for films.

    I guiess it could be suggested that said parents and being dense in their perception of all games as toys, but I see it as part of a bigger problem. I.e. the way the games industry is viewed by those not involved with it.