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Sony feeling the strain - Bach News
Xbox 360 PlayStation 3 News by Games Industry.biz
Robbie Bach, the president of Microsoft's entertainment and devices division, has said that he believes Sony is focusing on too many different areas - and is feeling the strain as a result.
Speaking to the San Jose Mercury News, Bach defended Microsoft's decision to introduce new music player Zune to market, rather than a new gaming handheld.
At present, he said, the company's priority is to make sure that, "The second holiday for Xbox 360 is set up right, that we've got the quantities we need, that we've got the games we need, and anything I do to distract those guys is probably a bad thing.
"I think Sony, frankly, suffers a little bit from this problem, which is they're spread really thin across all these areas. And trying to do PSP, competing with Nintendo, PSP to DS; competing with us, 360 to PS3, I think it does strain - it would naturally strain any organisation," he added.
When it comes to competing with the PlayStation 3, "Right now we are thinking about how to cost reduce the Xbox 360. That seems to be the first order of business," Bach said.
"You have to ask the question, over the life cycle, who has the cost advantage? Who can price most effectively? Who can reach the price points quicker? That has a huge impact on what gets driven.
"Most publishers are doing their initial development work on the Xbox 360. That plays to our benefit. Because we are out there first, we have a bigger installed base of consoles. We can drive down the manufacturing curve sooner and faster. And because we designed a box that was fundamentally easier to manage on costs, we’re going to have that advantage," he concluded.
According to Bach, Xbox 360 will be "a great logical choice" for gamers who want to buy a new console this Christmas season, particularly as PS3 shortages continue - adding, "Our value proposition is just better."
He said that Microsoft's decision not to introduce a 2006 holiday price cut for Xbox 360 "was not that hard", explaining, "When your competitor is supply constrained, it’s not clear what price buys you.
"Sony is going to sell as many units as they can ship in the US. I don’t know that a lower price would make a difference in the outcome. As you go out into later years, cost and price are both important issues."
When asked how long it will be before Microsoft starts making money on Xbox, Bach replied, "To be clear, we have said that in fiscal 08, entertainment and devices makes money. That’s not exactly Xbox. We don’t break profit down by business. And there are parts of entertainment and devices that make money. Xbox doesn’t. Xbox has to make significant progress to enable E&D to get there."
However, Bach added, "We feel we are on track."
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chupachups
27/11/06 @ 12:41
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Comments like this:
"I think Sony, frankly, suffers a little bit from this problem, which is they're spread really thin across all these areas. And trying to do PSP, competing with Nintendo, PSP to DS; competing with us, 360 to PS3, I think it does strain - it would naturally strain any organisation," are just pure sniping, and seem even more insincere because he tries to sound all rational about it by saying anyone would have problems. He's also trying to make up for the fact that MS is the only console platform with no handheld console counterpart. Couldn't they just shut up about their rivals and concentrate on what they themselves have to offer? |
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Bach: I think Sony are quite happy that you released your console early and I think developers love you for it and I think gamers will gain as well.
It's all good man. It's just. The games are gonna sell more on PS3, because their install base is gonna run away from yours. It doesn't really matter if you focus on solid titles if all those titles are the same titles as you've always focused on. The heavy gamer titles. |
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Let's see:
MS Windows vs OSX MS Windows vs Linux MS OFfice vs Open Office vs WordPerfect Office MS Internet Explorer vs Mozilla Firefox MS Windows Media Player vs Itunes vs infinity.... MS Zune vs IPod MS Keyboard and Mice vs a trillion others MS Sidewinder vs.... MS Money vs Quicken MSN vs AOL & trillion others MSNBC vs every other cable channel ever Notice the MS in all of this?? Then again, to be fair, they have a bottomless pile of cash while Sony have a bottomless pile of bust batteries. ;-) That said, his comments to me sound surprisingly reasonable and controlled. Maybe its just me!
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most recently on 27/11/06 @ 12:58
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Some info on pricing:
"It turns out that [Sony] are losing $307 for every 20GB PS3 and $241 for every 60GB PS3, and that's before before marketing and distribution costs. Compare this to the Xbox, where initially Microsoft was losing $153 per unit a year ago but who are now making $75.70 on each one sold. When it comes to the Wii, Nintendo is making a profit from the outset" Seems a bit odd the 20GB loses more than the 60GB but there you go. http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=152 |
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barnard666
27/11/06 @ 13:11
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"Seems a bit odd the 20GB loses more than the 60GB but there you go."
because the only thing different is that it has a bigger hard drive, the extra cost for the consumer far outweighs the cost of upping a 20GB drive to a 60GB one. |
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Inflatable
27/11/06 @ 13:13
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This article makes my feeling of a upcoming pricecut only stronger.. I've predicted a Xbox 360 pricecut coming up somewhere arround March/April next year when the PS3 launches in Europe for some time now.. It will probably be arround 50 euro's orso, so a Xbox 360 premium will then cost you 349,99 euro and a core arround 249,99 (Wii territory).
And yes, PS3 is in a bit of trouble.. Because besides having a standard Blu-ray drive and being more quiet in operation it offers nothing over the Xbox 360.. Both systems have the same graphical power, but Xbox 360 is available everywhere in stores right now, is a lot cheaper (especially after the pricedrop), and has more games available for the coming 1-2 years orso.. In the US and especially Europe the PS3 will lose a lot of sales to the Xbox 360 this holiday, it will probably run into the millions.. As for the Wii, despite probably costing as much as a Xbox 360 core in March/April next year, I think the Wii will not really suffer because it has it's own special market with it's 1st party Nintendo games that are totally different from Xbox 360 or PS3 games.. Although it's a clear sign again why (imho) the Wii is overpriced in Europe with 249,99 euro.. It's just a little bit more powerfull then the 5 year old Gamecube, and (after the Xbox 360 pricedrop) it costs the same as a much more powerfull Xbox 360.. |
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Does anyone realize that it is VERY early days for the PS3 yet? Also, if first-wave titles on PS3 are looking just as good as their 360 counterparts (which are second-wave titles by the way), things might be looking good for how games will evolve on PS3?
But Sony have earned themselves some of that harted, there's no denying that. The only thing that can erase the bitter launch atmosphere would be a year of good releases - maybe. |
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chupachups
27/11/06 @ 13:23
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"Does anyone realize that it is VERY early days for the PS3 yet?"
The problem is that it's NOT early days for the Xbox 360, it's been around for over a year now and is available in every games shop in the world. The PS3 isn't even available in Europe and is virtually impossible to get in the countries where it has "launched". And the Wii is so easy to manufacture, it too will be far more widely available than the PS3 for the next year or so. "yep and Sony's first party buzz, Singstar or Eye-toy will not make it's way onto the PS3?" Absolutely no one would buy a $600 / £450 console to play Buzz, Singstar or Eyetoy, especially when they can get exactly the same gameplay on the PS2 for $130 / £80. They might sell well, but they won't be the games that sell the system.
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chupachups: Sony know that which is why they have been focusing on the heavy gamer style titles for launch and the first 1-2 years of the console.
The thing that Sony has going for them is that people know that they will get both the heavy gamer style titles mixed with the japanese style quirky games and rpgs + the lifestyle titles of Singstar, Buzz and Eyetoy. Bach or Eurogamer are correct when saying that Sony is going for breadth. That is exactly why they are selling. However they seem to be losing some of the depth on that breadth, especially in the heavy gamer segment.
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most recently on 27/11/06 @ 13:30
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So the summary would be.
1. We are loosing money on each box just not nearly as much as sony. 2. Developers realise that they can make money selling 360 games to 7.5 million users rathere than 300,000 sony users (duh!) 3. PSP still makes the guys at Microsoft laugh. Sony thought they could muscle into the handheld market we trhink they are dopes and they know it!. 4. Yea we thought about handheld gaming but nintendo are just too big there so we went after apple who have saturated the market and started to make mistakes! |
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JediMasterMalik
27/11/06 @ 13:39
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Why does everyone and their dog think that Sony have failed in the handheld market? Not beating Nintendo in a market which they have completely monopolized for decades does not count as failure. They have done very well for their first venture into handheld gaming.
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As far as I'm concerned they've ALL fucked up.
Microsoft should have had ten internal teams filling every genre with triple-A titles. The argument about whether to buy a PS3 or not should have been a non-issue by now. M$ - despite its billions in the bank - are tightwads and have dropped the ball. Nintendo make a nice (though potentially novelty) machine but we still get over-charged in Europe. For that reason alone they get bite my shiny metal ass. Sony... Christ what can you say about Sony that a million forum posters haven't done already. Overpriced, under-supported, and not in Europe. The latest rumour is that March won't happen for us because every unit needs to prop up sales in Japan and the US. And in case you thnk I'm just scaremongering look at the facts: inital shipments are woeful. If you were a game stire in the US or Japan, could you be arsed to stock the rull range of games for a measly installed base? If Sony spreads itself thin over three major territories, it could really damage its high street support. Think about it: on launch day most towns get a paltry handful of machines and so each store has a tiny potential user-base. I'd rather use my valuable shelf space for 360, DS or Wii titles which I know stand a much greater chance of selling. In war you don't fight on two fronts, let alone three. If I was making a decision based on pure business, I'd leave troublesome multilingual Europe until next November and get a proper foothold in the NTSC territories first. |
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JediMasterMalik
27/11/06 @ 13:42
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Overpriced, under-supported
It's most definitely not overpriced. And what do you mean by undersupported? It has alot of support... |
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Inflatable
27/11/06 @ 13:43
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------Does anyone realize that it is VERY early days for the PS3 yet? Also, if first-wave titles on PS3 are looking just as good as their 360 counterparts (which are second-wave titles by the way), things might be looking good for how games will evolve on PS3?-----
Sure it's very early for PS3, but that's really their own fault.. Sony could have launched the PS3 a year ago just as the Xbox 360 if it wasn't for them trying to use the PS3 to push Blu-ray onto the market.. Sony simply gave the advantage to MS themselfs.. And yes, *if* the 1st PS3 games looked as good as 2nd gen Xbox360 games.. But they don't, and current multiplatform games like CoD3 and NFS:C etc look and run slightly better on the Xbox 360, which also says something.. -------yep and Sony's first party buzz, Singstar or Eye-toy will not make it's way onto the PS3?------ Sure PS3 will have it's exclusive things and games, but so will the Xbox 360, and noone will have the 1st party Nintendo games like Zelda and all the Mario's etc except the Wii.. That's also why I said that the PS3 will probably be top again in 5-6 years time, because there's so many PS2 users outthere that want the same exclusive games again as they had on their PS2.. But for the coming years Xbox 360 will stay ahead as the PS3 is to way to expensive for most PS2 owners, and the cheaper Xbox 360 offer a good alternative.. PS3 also lost a few important exclusives like GTA for example, therefor Sony will not dominate again as they did with the PS2.. In the end it will be close to 50/50 between Xbox 360 and PS3 with a slight advantage for PS3 I think.. For MS that's already a victory.. |
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Sure PS3 will have it's exclusive things and games, but so will the Xbox 360, and noone will have the 1st party Nintendo games like Zelda and all the Mario's etc except the Wii..
hmmm... because there's so many PS2 users out there that want the same exclusive games again as they had on their PS2 ¬_¬ |
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"Why does everyone and their dog think that Sony have failed in the handheld market? "
During the intermission at 'Video Games Live' on saturday I looked down at the 500 or so gamers I could see in the circle before me. There were about 50 DS's lit up. I saw one bloke huddled over by the aisle with a psp looking a bit ashamed. Mrs Wobble actually noticed this before me and said 'why does that one guy only have one screen when everyone else has two?' I lol'd. |
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Psychotext
27/11/06 @ 14:20
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Steroyd: I've had this argument before and it's never really got anywhere but I'll just say that you really have to think that $800 for a blu-ray player is reasonable before you can think a $600 PS3 is cheap for a blu-ray player. Personally I think that anyone that spends $600 on a higher res dvd player is a little nuts. But meh, I have no problem with people spending their cash how they want.
* Goes off to snort coke from hookers ass * =) |
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Talha: I believe a heavy gamer played games every day for long periods of time. Next-gen Study
The thing I find funny is that 3% of gamers are these so called heavy/power gamers. And still Microsoft and Sony focus on them to such a degree. |
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chupachups
27/11/06 @ 14:45
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"My point is, this situation has been faced by EVERY games console EVER, except for the first one (don't know what that was). There is nothing new here and it has nothing to do with a console's ultimate fate. At least Sony would hope so ;-)"
I'd agree if the PS3 was generally similar to its rivals, launch problems would be completely forgotten once manufacturing gets going properly. The problem is the PS3 costs twice as much as the 360 and three times as much as the Wii, and the price difference isn't going to go away because MS and Nintendo will match every price drop (they're already making a profit on the hardware so if they took the same loss as Sony they could sell their consoles for about $100 each). No successful console has ever had such a big price difference at launch, which makes potential PS3 customers even less likely to wait for it while the 360 and Wii look so inviting on the shop shelves. In fact the only console I can think of which was so hugely expensive compared to rivals is the 3DO, which died miserably at the hands of the much cheaper first PlayStation. |
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Psychotext
27/11/06 @ 14:57
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disc: Exactly the same thing happened with the 360 launch... except the high prices went on longer (PS3 prices seem to have crashed since launch day). The 360 didn't go for quite that much on average, but then it was cheaper to start with. Academic really... Nintendo shows how it's done, yet even they still have shortages despite apparently launching with 4x what Sony managed.
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KillahSouljah
27/11/06 @ 15:00
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Microsoft you need to focus on your own shit.
Microsoft XBOX 360 is going against Sony PLAYSTATION 3. Microsoft ZUNE is going against Apple iPod. Theres only 1 room for 1 top company in each country. Japans got Sony. Americas got Apple. You need to beat Apple before you can go against any company. I reckon the strains on you Softy. The most succesful gaming company out there is Sony, PS one won, PS2 won, PS3 will win, Xbox flopped, Xbox 360 doing worst, it needs to beat PS2, PSP before it can go against PS3. |
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KillahSouljah
27/11/06 @ 15:05
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PS3's first gen titles are looking better than 360's second gen titles.
And i have to say this but Halo 3's graphics looks like shit. |
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Psychotext
27/11/06 @ 15:16
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rdexter: Yeah, I thought so. Though you missed my point. There's plenty of people on here that would flame you for buying a 360, PS3, Wii, whatever. Like I said, that's not me. But I do like a good discussion (though I wont be bothering to respond to KillahSouljah because he's proven in the past that he's way too far down fanboy road to appreciate other's opinions).
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penhalion: According to this:
http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?... Microsoft is now making money on each XBox 360 sold. |
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crazyhorse174
27/11/06 @ 15:25
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Hmm...strange.
IGN really liked the Zune - gave it a respectable 8 out of 10 if I'm not mistaken. Didnt mention many problems with it. Strange that the guy who reviewed it in the review thats linked above seemed to hate it so much. |
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"IGN really liked the Zune - gave it a respectable 8 out of 10 if I'm not mistaken. Didnt mention many problems with it.
Strange that the guy who reviewed it in the review thats linked above seemed to hate it so much." theres many other reviews on the t'internet giving the zune a respecatble review, it might not be an apple killer ut it is still a good player non the less, it seems that review posted must have been from some apple fanboy or microsoft hater - not so different to people on forums really ;) |
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