PlayStation 3 to cost £425

By Games Industry.biz Published 18 May, 2006

It's 'a bargain', says bigwig.

Sony Computer Entertainment UK's managing director, Ray Maguire, has revealed that to Eurogamer that the PlayStation 3 will set British gamers back £425 when it arrives here on November 17 - which he believes is "a bargain."

Speaking to Eurogamer TV in an exclusive interview to be broadcast in the next few days, Maguire said: "I don't think it's an expensive machine; I think actually, it's probably a cheap machine.

"If you think a Blu-Ray player by itself might be £600-700, and we're coming in at just £425 - it's a bargain."

At a pre-E3 press conference last week, Sony announced that the 60GB PS3 will go on sale for €599 - that's around £405 if you do a direct conversion. The 20GB PS3 will retail for €499, but well-informed retail sources have been suggesting that Sony won't release the lower spec model in the UK at all.

Which will leave us with the 60GB version, priced at £140 more than its nearest rival, the Xbox 360. Microsoft has reportedly told UK retailers that the cost of an Xbox 360 plus HD-DVD peripheral will be less than the price of a PS3 come Christmas.

"£425 is definitely not a mass market price, no," Maguire admitted.

"But you think about the price, think about the price of just a Blu-Ray player. It will be cheaper than a Blu-Ray player just by itself. So fundamentally we're going to be great value just from that point of view without even looking at the games side."

He went on to concede, however, that it'll be up to Sony to communicate this message to consumers who might not be that knowledgeable when it comes to next-gen disc formats.

"The point is that most people don't realise what they're actually getting with PlayStation 3," Maguire said.

"Number one, it's a games machine and we all know that. But also it's a high definition video playback device through Blu-Ray, and a lot of people don't really understand that part of the functionality either. There's a big story to tell people and a lot of information to be taken on board."

Look out for the full interview on Eurogamer TV - coming soon.

Picture of Games.

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Comments (233) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • sturgeon #1 6 years ago

    bargain

  • DDevil #2 6 years ago

    I'll buy 10! What a cheap and affordable bargin!

  • Yossarian #3 6 years ago

    more like a har-har-hargain

  • Yossarian #4 6 years ago

    more like £100 too far-gain

  • Yossarian #5 6 years ago

    more like the cost of a solid gold bar-gain

  • Yossarian #6 6 years ago

    okay I'm done

  • Darren #7 6 years ago

    What's happened to the page. I'm nearly typing blind here! LOL

  • Darren #8 6 years ago

    Where's the article? Where's the damn cursor!!!

  • Triggerhappytel #9 6 years ago

    "okay I'm done"

    Thank fuck for that!

    ;)

    PS - I can't read it either

  • PlugMonkey #10 6 years ago

    Me neither, but I'm guessing that the PS3 is going to cost £425 over here, and a Sony bigwig is trying to claim this is a bargain.

  • The12thMonkey #11 6 years ago

    Bargin, says he?

    Bollocks, says I
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:19

  • drumbaby #12 6 years ago

    If they're going to treat the UK like tards (as usual) they could at least offer us the tard pack.

  • Beano #13 6 years ago

    Can't read the article :(

    Is this the price for the "premium" PS3 ?

  • drumbaby #14 6 years ago

    Yep.

  • JonFE #15 6 years ago

    Well, that was quick...

    You've got to hand it to Sony's Legal Department :)

    Edit: Damn, it is back now...
    So much for conspiracy theories this time...
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:06

  • Blerk #16 6 years ago

    Me neither, but I'm guessing that the PS3 is going to cost £425 over here, and a Sony bigwig is trying to claim this is a bargain.

    Spooky! :-D

  • Artemus #17 6 years ago

    May be a 'bargain' compared to a Blu-Ray player but not to those that just want a console.

  • chemicalcaveman #18 6 years ago

    I was seriously thinking of making the PS3 my first Sony console. I see myself as a fairly dedicated game player, but at that price they can just forget about getting my money for the next few years, blu-ray or not.

  • KingOfSpain #19 6 years ago

    maybe, just maybe, I DONT WANT FUCKING BLU RAY....COCKS!!
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:51

  • lambtron #20 6 years ago

    YOU WILL HAVE THE BLURAY PLAYER AND LIKE IT YOU WORMS.

    So say Sony.

  • floW #21 6 years ago

    I shit that much outta my ass in 6 seconds!

    What a bargain!

  • mazzl #22 6 years ago

    i dont have a HD tv, and i am not planning on buying one for at least 3 years.
    so i dont want a br device. i rent about 2 dvd's a month.. so.. i don't really care for BR
    sorry dude

    ---
    why are we all saying the same thing here
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:55

  • TheSaint #23 6 years ago

    We get it, it's also a blu ray player.

    Who actually wants a blu ray player anyway?

    You would have thought Sony would have learned from the success of UMD really.
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:55

  • Beano #24 6 years ago

    What is the UK price for a premium Xbox 360 ?

    £350 ?... £425 for a "premium" PS3 sounds pretty fair to me.

  • jiveguy #25 6 years ago

    Cheap as chips

  • KingOfSpain #26 6 years ago

    ok ok. So this blu ray shit yeah, whats it got going for it (in terms for gaming)

    Well you can fit more shit on a disk.

    but there is one problem with that.

    I dont mind changing disks, it not the end of the world. Its not worth 425 to just not change disks.

    I hate you and you mum, dad,b rothers, sisters, pets.
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:56

  • Yossarian #27 6 years ago

    no, a premium 360 costs £280

  • Gurgeh #28 6 years ago

    For a Blu-Ray player £ 425 is a bargain. For a games console its a rip-off.

  • oceanmotion #29 6 years ago

    At Beano , UK 360 Premium is £279 not £350.

  • KingOfSpain #30 6 years ago

    but it will go down in price by xmas

  • Yossarian #31 6 years ago

    does anyone know how fast the PS3's Blu-Ray drive spins compared to whatever kind of DVD drive the 360 uses?

  • Dizzy #32 6 years ago

    You need a Bluray player

    /waves hand

    BTW Bluray player is a 2x speed (based on latest specs). A lot slower than most PC/360/Wii DVD players (hence the need for a HD in the PS3)
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:58

  • Blerk #33 6 years ago

    but it will go down in price by xmas

    Not now it won't.

  • mazzl #34 6 years ago

    @KingOfSpain
    true! i think changing disks is COOL it feels like more value for money on the game :D

    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 15:59

  • ccfb #35 6 years ago

    Sony's marketting department have got their work cut out selling the "blu-ray" aspect to a public still aren't sold on the HD concept, and making it sound cheap for the priviledge

  • asphaltcowboy #36 6 years ago

    "Speaking to Eurogamer TV in an exclusive interview to be broadcast in the next few days, Maguire said: "I don't think it's an expensive machine; I think actually, it's probably a cheap machine.

    Is Sony just full of rich, smug bastards?

  • speedjack #37 6 years ago

    Er... Beano...

    a 'premium' Xbox is £280.

  • PearOfAnguish #38 6 years ago

    "The point is that most people don't realise what they're actually getting with PlayStation 3,"

    Getting ripped off is what they're getting.

    And here I thought Sony wanted to create a new movie platform winner with the Bluray by adding it as a free of cost addition to a entertainment device that's primarily for gaming.

    The general feeling is that Sony is willing to go to any lengths to ensure Blu-Ray is the new standard. Because they've had *such* success in the past with this kind of thing.

  • KingOfSpain #39 6 years ago

    mazzl.

    changing disks makes me hard...i love it. in fact i would paymore if the PS3 came with a floppy disk drive. I could change disks all the time

    /joy

  • gamingdave #40 6 years ago

    "If you think a Blu-Ray player by itself might be £600-700, and we're coming in at just £425 - it's a bargain."

    Are they admitting that the Blu-Ray capabilities, and overall output quality, of the PS3 are substandard, or that their standalone players are overpriced?

  • Skooch #41 6 years ago

    "I don't think it's an expensive machine; I think actually, it's probably a cheap machine"

    Sounds like he's trying to convince himself as much as anyone else.

    And Sony, stop bringing out the Blu-Ray argument, I personally don't know anybody (friends or family) who has articulated an interest in this new format.

  • BartonFink #42 6 years ago

    All I have to say to this is ROFL, bullshit, and bargain my arse.

    They really have lost the plot

    They really have started to believe their own bullshine.
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:04

  • Yossarian #43 6 years ago

    nobody in my circle of friends even knew what Blu-Ray was when I mentioned it the other day, and after some explanation all I managed to convince them was that 'so it's like DVD, yeah?'

  • TheSaint #44 6 years ago

    This hole Sony keeps digging is getting deeper and deeper.

  • #45 6 years ago

    "But you think about the price, think about the price of just a Blu-Ray player. It will be cheaper than a Blu-Ray player just by itself.
    Shit really?
    I've been NEEDING a bluray player for ages - there's just SO much content out for it y'know!
    A 'bargain' - do me a f**king favor guv'nor.

  • snick #46 6 years ago

    Its just a shame that the 360 HD-dvd drive can't be plugged in internally, having external bits hanging around is a pain. Still Sony can piss right off, £475 to get a console with one game, you've gotta be kidding.

  • LOLLERS #47 6 years ago

    people are sold on HD, I am anyway, HD is clearly better. I don't have £1500 to spend on a decent HD TV though! I'm not going to get the HD console before the HD display for it!


    £425 will become £475+ once you've bought a game which will inevitably be at least £50 at launch like 360, plus there's probably some other peripheral like a second controller or a cable you'll have to buy that'll push the cost up over £500 in the end...


    hehe yeah, I can imagine all the chavs desperate for a ps3 and then plugging it into a 28" CRT.
    'so it's like DVD, yeah?, except you can't tell until you've spent another grand'
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:10

  • neilka #48 6 years ago

    The unfortunate truth is that it doesn't really matter what we think about the price - branches of Argos up and down the country are still going to be selling plenty of PS3s to plenty of people wearing plenty of jewellery featuring clowns.

  • Yossarian #49 6 years ago

    next question is how good exactly Sony/Microsoft's Blu-Ray/HD DVD playback will be, anyway, considering the less than stellar implementation of DVD in their last consoles

  • Walshicus #50 6 years ago

    Frod: You're somewhat correct. A friend of mine made this graph to illustrate:

    http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4716/dvdvsbdrs1af.png

    The 360 uses a 12x DVD ROM drive, which uses Constant Angular Velocity rather than Constant Linear Velocity. This means that data transfer rates for DVDs are faster at the edge of the disk than in the centre. A 12x DVD at maximum is much faster than a 2x BD, and at minimum is slightly slower.

    Now, game makers have become quite good at putting the most vital data at the edge of the disk to maximise data transfer, so for all intents and purposes, most DVD games will load faster than BD ones.

  • Darren #51 6 years ago

    It might be a bargain as a Blu-ray movie player but as a games machine, which I'd imagine that's what 99.9% of people want one for, the PS3 is grossly overpriced.

    What is it with Sony? Have they forgotten that people buy consoles to mainly play games on?
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:15

  • TheSaint #52 6 years ago

    @yossarian

    I agree the DVD quality of the PS2 was poor, and while the xbox was better having to buy the remote was a joke.

    Any ideas how much stand alone HD-DVD players will be?

  • Frogger #53 6 years ago

    425£ converts to 627€. More than the 599€ announced last week.

    That's allmost a 5% price raise in one week. I wonder how much it will cost on november... Excel anyone ?

  • login_name #54 6 years ago

    I'm glad these Sony types are here to tell me what's a bargain. I'm not capable of doing that myself, left to my own devices who knows where my money would go.

  • #55 6 years ago

    Yeah Yossarian, I actually prefer the old xbox's DVD playback to the 360s! - and that's on an HD TV (the advanced scart cable for the old xbox was a good purchase!).

    Of course, almost any dedicated DVD player over about £50 blows them both out of the water, not only cos they don't sound so BLOODY LOUD.

    I'm sorry, but HD DVD and BluRay are going to take a while to really reach the mainstream. They could even BOTH go the way of laserdisc - who knows!?

  • Zuiyo #56 6 years ago

    Well what's the point of owning a Blu-Ray player now? I'll tell you. There's no point.

    In my honest opinion, it is too early for a new generation of home video. Most people still don't own HD monitors. And DVDs still do the trick rather well. No point in high definition equipment just yet.

    So much for Blu-Ray. I can fit the contents of a DVD in my USB stick. In two or three years broadband, hard discs and flash memory devices will be big enough to make optical devices obsolete.

    I feel Blu-Ray is as doomed as UMD video or MiniDisc.

  • trevd72 #57 6 years ago

    if thats the price of a blu ray drive then its dead before it hits the shelves. I dont see the need for HDTV yet. I am waiting for the technology to settle. people are happy with the dvd, so the BR is a bit of a white elephant i think.

  • Yossarian #58 6 years ago

    http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4716/dvdvsbdrs1af.png

    wait, so the minimum read speed for the 360's DVD is slower than PS3's Blu-Ray but the maximum speed is roughly twice as fast? I'm not good with graphs

  • nickthegun #59 6 years ago

    "The point is that most people don't realise what they're actually getting with PlayStation 3"

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the issue. 'But dad, its so expensive, because its got a blu-ray player!' 'What the fuck is a blu ray player'.

    You cant attach added value to something that people dont understand.

    "But Coca-Cola is good value because Aspartame and Potassium Benzoate are expensive to synthesise" "WTF?"

    After the inevitable price cut, a premium 360 will be half the price of a PS3. I mean, at the prices quoted, for the price of a PS3 and a game, you could buy a 360, a Wii and a game for each.

    I mean, fuck, I understand perfectly well what blu ray is. I understand the benefits of this technology and Im in the exact user demographic they are marketing it to (25-35, white, middleclass, reasonably well paid gadget freak) and even I dont give a crap.

  • escapedape #60 6 years ago

    Or current consoles even: I've found the 360's DVD playback to be less than impressive.

    But then who will have a Blu Ray player to compare their PS3's playback to?

  • BillGaitas #61 6 years ago

    wow so its a bargain, who would tell

    @ frogger
    thats the price you pay for not wanting to use the euro € :)

  • #62 6 years ago

    Who will have aany bluray movies to even play on the PS3?!
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:17

  • Yossarian #63 6 years ago

    Blu-Ray is the thread Sony's future as a corporation hangs by, and it's a shame they're potentially going to hurt the sales of their one profitable division in an attempt to sneak Blu-Ray into people's homes like some sort of videogame Trojan horse.

  • bloodflowers #64 6 years ago

    It seems $ony have forgotten what the product is. A games machine. This is why people buy Playstations, to play games. The report shows $ony are only interested in wheeling their blu ray trojan horse into peoples houses.

    This gets more and more hilarious with each passing day. Do you think the execs are playing musical chairs with a hat full of dumb press releases and interview responses?

    "hahaha, Ken has to say it uses cellular blast processing next"

  • Beano #65 6 years ago

    "At Beano , UK 360 Premium is £279 not £350. "

    Ok, still pretty a pretty fair price to me becauce I want BluRay... but Xbox 360 offer better value for money for gamers who don't want/need BluRay.

  • TheSaint #66 6 years ago

    Are the games going to be on Blu Ray discs or normal dvd's (or both)?

  • JohnnyWashnGo #67 6 years ago

    Many video games enthuisasts will be the type of people to keep up with the frantic pace of technological change these days.

    I imagine that a nice Blu-ray player will be a wonderful additional to their entertainment centres and will look fantastic on their new HD TVs.

    However, many gamers with either:

    - student debts
    - mortgages
    - spouses
    - children

    or a combination of the above, just want to play games on an affordable machine which will last for maybe 3-5 years and have plenty of good games available for it.

    For the aforementioned gamers with other commitments outside of their hobby, £400+ for a games machine is prohibitively expensive.

    The shear balls of Sony recently, calling this machine a bargain, installing rootkit-type software on computers via audio CDs, the general lack of quality in their products just turns me off of the company.

    Thankfully Nintendo have something interesting to offer, with a price tag that is affordable. Sony is, frankly, laughable right now.

    The PS3 may be the latest in a series of stupid and totally avoidable blunders from Sony. To be honest, I have had enough.

    So long Sony.

  • Walshicus #68 6 years ago

    Re: BillGaitas

    Haha, yeah. I think Blair should have used that to promote the €uro here.
    "Adopting. The €uro. Will. Result in. Cheaper. Games consoles." I can imagine him saying.

  • nickthegun #69 6 years ago

    "But then who will have a Blu Ray player to compare their PS3's playback to?"

    If they really are going for £6-700 a pop, David Beckham, Donald Trump and Jesus.

    Bill Gates is more of an HD-DVD kinda guy......

  • Darren #70 6 years ago

    When Sony released the PS2, anyone could watch DVDs, you didn't need a special TV in order to view them but with the PS3's Blu-Ray you need an HDTV, which only a minority of the population own right now. And I reckon 95% of the people interested in buying a PS3 want one not for the Blu-ray movies but the games.

    I think Sony are putting to much reliance on selling the PS3 as a cheap Blu-ray movie player and not enough on it as a games machine, and that could be a costly mistake...

  • ProfessorLesser #71 6 years ago

    Confirmation from Sony there, then, that they plan to brazenly lie to the general public about why they need a Blu-Ray player.

  • thinktank #72 6 years ago

    Im one of those bastards who pre orders several consoles on day one the wacks them ebay to make a profit

    This time i'm actualy scared, im starting to think that PS3 might flop

    Can any one give me some decent reasons why ppl would shell out for it in november considering the competition from the Wii60?

  • in5ane #73 6 years ago

    It's new technology, it's expensive, and Sony can do what they like with the PS3. If only there were a choice of cheaper consoles people could buy instead of whinging...

  • bauhaus #74 6 years ago

    great
    could have been worse to be honest

    wonder how much I`ll make on ebay?!

  • avolee #75 6 years ago

    sorry to put another bullet in the gun, but we all seem to be assuming that the games are gonna cost £50 smackers, with sony saying that blueray discs are more expensive to produce, could we be looking at £55-£60 quid games, maybe theyre saving that good bit of news for later

  • AOFanboi #76 6 years ago

    Going by the U.S. prices, I justify my future purchase of a PS3 over an XBox 360 thusly:

    1) Price difference is $100 since the low-end PS3 compares to the high-end XBox 360.
    2) The PS3 plays my existing library of PS2 games. Worth, say $30.
    3) Not having to pay a yearly subscription for Live-like services: That's $50 at least.
    4) Comes with a successor format to DVD, which is a $100-150 add-on (requiring a separate wire to the TV to boot). Worth $50 just to be on the cheap side.
    5) "Native" PS3 games, shipping on the higher-capacity disks of Blu-Ray can cram more content in, mening longer and prettier games. That's $20 or so, since I put gameplay over graphics any day. There were stories that some game devcelopers for the XBox 360 were complaining about space on the DVDs for the hi-def content (which naturally takes up more space than standard-def content).

    I am already above the $100 difference. And I probably will think up more arguments before November 17...

  • #77 6 years ago

    Darren - add into that that when the PS2 came out the DVD was pretty much the only viable future movie format, and wa ALREADY pretty well established.

    I think most agree that the bluray player is a masive gamble.

    To the person who said that bluray was important to you I'd like to ask 1 question:
    Why?

    EDIT: AOFanboi - there are so many holes in those arguments, I can't even be bothered to go through them, however the one infallible point is the backwards compatibility - you're right there.
    Although why you're American and here I don't know.
    How do you know that in 2 years' time it won't be another minidisc?
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 16:39

  • Darren #78 6 years ago

    It's stupid really... everyone just wants a PS3 so they can play its games but instead people are going to have to pay over the odds because the PS3 has an expensive Blu-ray drive that plays movies that many people probably won't be able to watch anyway (I can't imagine they'd look too impressive over DVD on a 14" colour portable...).

  • Xander_B_OXford #79 6 years ago

    A BARGAIN you say $ony? I don't doubt that there are people in this world who may consider being anally 'fisted' by Abu Hamza for 50 quid a bargain, but does that mean they're getting a good deal? No, that just means they're FUCKING IDIOTS!

    For 425 British Pounds I could buy another 360, a bag of finest skunk, an hour in the company of the most comely Russian prostitute (where I would go for a 'hat trick' of all three holes, possibly whilst smoking the skunk), and probably have change for a chunky Kit Kat left over! Any of which individually would be a million times more fun than the fucking B$3!

    $ony have not only screwed the pooch in truly spectacular style on this one, but they've screwed the pooch, impregnated it, given life to a litter of grotesque half-dog/half-Ken Kunturagi mutant pooches, and then proceeded to screw THOSE as well. That's how fucked they are in very real terms.

    The oncoming collapse of $ony is truly going to be a sight to behold. It'll be like that bit in Boys Don't Cry where Hilary Swank got double teamed by those two rednecks, but with Sony as Hilary Swank and NintYENdo and MICROSOFT as the two rednecks(Though if anyone else ever compares the glorious Microsoft to a redneck, I'll personally eat out their lungs with my teeth).

    The sooner the brainless consumer horde stop buying into $ony shit all the time and think exactly like me and buy only XBOX 360(and the NintYENdo kiddies console if they're feeling fruity I suppose), then the world will be a far, FAAAAR better place for all gamers.

  • login_name #80 6 years ago

    £425 is a lot of money, but early adopters have paid far more for imported consoles in the past. It might suck for the average Joe but the hardcore, particularly in the UK, should be largely unaffected by this price point. If Sony can manage a price cut early 2007, I don't think they have too much to worry about. Also, chances are, if you want one at launch, you'll have no problem since it'll be too expensive for all the mum's shopping for little Jonny's crimbo pressy.

  • trevd72 #81 6 years ago

    good god this could be the end of sony's king of the hill status.

    THe only reason i am getting one is cos i will flog 5 on ebay to pay for mine and a couple of games, others wise i would of held off.

    Sony have a poor record when it comes to price cuts, so it would have been another year or so before i bought in at this price. I am v happy with my 360 and Live!

  • escapedape #82 6 years ago

    @AOFanboi

    Except you've justified pretty much ALL of what the console can do and that seeems to add up to be worth $100 - rather than the full cost of it. Anyone else notice the shaky logic on display there?

    Rather like the odd logic that Sony themselves are now throwing at us: it's cheap because a Blu Ray player would be more expensive. Does not compute.

  • JHuxley #83 6 years ago

    If you want a Blu-Ray player it's a bargin. If you don't, it's a bloody rip-off.

    I've got a HD telly and quite fancy a high def DVD player of some sort, so I'll probably pick one up after they cut the price a few months down the line.

    Oh, and HD TV will become a LOT more common in a year or two. Everyone seems to think they're some sort of exclusive luxury item for the rich, but they'll almost totally replace regular TVs sooner than you think.

  • #84 6 years ago

    Xander_B_OXford
    Are you serious?
    I'm a bit of a MS fanboy, but when it comes down to it I'm in it for the gaming experience. If Sony shows me something, I'll take it.
    I find no place for your post in my life, if I wanna hear that I'll take a stroll down the high-street.
    /hits ignore

  • escapedape #85 6 years ago

    Yeah, I couldn't be happier with the 360 and Live. Admittedly, without Live I wouldn't be half as compelled to play the 360 as I am at the moment.

    Which does beg the question: without evidence of a compelling online service, why should I shell out so much cash for a PS3? Blu Ray? No thanks...I have a few hundred DVDs that i'm not interested in paying out to replace just yet!

  • #86 6 years ago

    JHuxley - considering even the digital TV switch-over in this country is not due for a couple of years, I can't see HDTV being all that commonplace until say 2015. I know skyHD etc is racking up its advertising, but how long do you think it'll take the BBC/terrestrial TV networks? My guess is a lot longer than 2-3 years.
    I mean, we still have analogue TV which is what loads of people watch!

  • #87 6 years ago

    Sony's in a tricky position with this: to push their next-gen out so that they have a viable competitor to 360 but, at the same time, not wanting to kill sales of their PS2 cashcow - which is selling phenomenally well even after 6 years.

    Can Sony fight the next-gen market whilst fighting the current one as well? Will this give MS the opening that they need? Will consumers looking for next-gen turn to 360 rather than PS3?

  • groovychainsaw #88 6 years ago

    Of course, in America, people have had HDTV's being sold to them for nearly 5 years now, and it has much higher penetration there. This is the market Sony are hoping to capture with blu-ray, but they've made a bit of a blunder with europe really, as most people dont have HDTV (yet). But hey, since when have the japanese console companies cared about europe, eh?

  • nickthegun #89 6 years ago

    Oh, and HD TV will become a LOT more common in a year or two. Everyone seems to think they're some sort of exclusive luxury item for the rich, but they'll almost totally replace regular TVs sooner than you think.

    Bingo! If its a given that this generation will have about a 5 year lifespan and it takes about 3 or 4 years for TV technology to reach saturation point, the PS3s capabilities are going to be wasted on a lot of people for a huge portion of its useful lifespan.

    I mean, think of all the people you know with widescreen TVs. How many of them only bought after they dropped to less than £200 and they could put one in their trollies in ASDA along with their cornflakes?

    MS went for a halfway point and Nintendo seems to have, pretty much grasped that point entirely. There really is no point in having a truly HD capable console this generation, because the market isnt ready for it. I dont doubt that the follow up for the Wii will be high def as the tech will have matured to sensible money and most people will be HD capable by then. Theres no point in having features people cant use.

  • PearOfAnguish #90 6 years ago

    Blu-Ray can cram more content in, mening longer and prettier games.

    Hahahahaahahahahaha good one!


    Hahahahahaha

  • lambtron #91 6 years ago

    Hehe whilst not endorsing the views of Mr Oxford his posts are always a good read.

    ^_^.

  • #92 6 years ago

    Blu-Ray can cram more content in, mening longer and prettier games.

    Hahahahaahahahahaha good one!


    Hahahahahaha
    +1
    Oblivion much?

  • login_name #93 6 years ago

    Lets not forget that Microsoft's biggest marketing selling point was the HD generation. Some 360 games are that crap on a standard TV the dev/publisher themselves have told the customer to buy the other versions instead. DoA doesn't support PAL50 at all. So bitching about Blue Ray and lack of HD TV's is a bit rich coming from anyone in the Microsoft camp.

  • JHuxley #94 6 years ago

    @jamesphilp - I wasn't talking about HD transmissions, I was just talking about the TVs. They're coming down in price rapidly and people will start buying them in real numbers.

    I have a HD TV but no HD input, so a high def DVD player interests me.

  • escapedape #95 6 years ago

    Even if Blu Ray's disc capacity means 'longer and prettier games', it's doubtful that the space will be used for anything particularly useful. Think back to the early days of PS1: FMV ran rampant back then, with developers amazed at the amount of space they could now try and fill.

    And do I really want a game that's any bigger than Oblivion? I don't have enough time to properly explore that as much as I'd like, so having potentially larger games is a bit of a false economy - especially as I'd be more than likely paying a lot more for them as they're on Blu Ray and development costs would naturally be higher.

    Like most people posting here at the moment, I remain totally unmoved by the PS3. Then again, I was totally uninterested in a 360 until Oblivion arrived, so who knows what exclusive killer app might tempt me towards the dark side?

  • escapedape #96 6 years ago

    Oh, and I have my 360 running on a 28" widescreen CRT through S-Video. Yes I've seen the games running on HD, and no they don't look that bad on a normal TV. Anyone who says that it really makes that much of a difference when playing the game really, seriously hasn't got a clue.

    Of course my preference would be to play in HD. Yes, it looks nicer. Can I afford an HDTV? No. Am I happy to be able to play games such as Oblivion on my standard TV? Totally.

  • #97 6 years ago

    Ah, OK Hux.

    I too have a HD TV. /smug look. and am lovin the 360 on it.
    For me though, with a ever expanding DVD collection of some 350+ discs, I'm not looking into new moive formats until there's a winner, so Sony's tactic of getting me to force my hand and adopt an unproven format doesn't impress me much. To refer back to the article:

    think about the price of just a Blu-Ray player. It will be cheaper than a Blu-Ray player just by itself. So fundamentally we're going to be great value just from that point of view

    I re-iterate - what is the actual value of the Bluray player to me, the punter, in 6 months' time? No content, no establishment, no proof.

  • Arwin #98 6 years ago

    I'm getting tired of defending Sony - can't someone unfairly attack the 360 or the Wii so I can defend them for a bit? Just for some variation? :D

    Ok, so here's a few more arguments that I have some questions for:

    - "I don't want Bluray because I don't want HDtv."

    Then what's the point of buying a 360, really? The old Xbox which you can get for free now does a lot of great looking games on a regular TV. And have you tried GunCon games on the PS2? Now could be the time for you to do so.

    In the meantime, the first people who will want the new console are the people who have bought a new TV, maybe are getting digital tv on it for the World Cup or are playing their old DVDs in 480p progressive on their 720p TV, but in the meantime their last-gen games are starting to look a bit crappy. They will hugely benefit from getting a PS3 and for them it will be an insane bargain.

    Other people at this time will benefit much less from the PS3, but they will similarly benefit less from most other next-gen consoles. At least with the PS3 and the Wii, you still have the novel controllers, but the 360 doesn't add anything much as much of its advantage is geared towards HDtv also.

    As time goes on though, and with the PS2 already having had 6 good years of shelf-life and still getting decent stuff, time will go on for quite a while before we have to move on to a PS4 or equivalent competitor, more and more people will get HDtvs. Browsing on your TV will become more popular, TV and Internet will become more integrated, video conferencing will use your TV and so on, and during all that time your PS3 will be up to spec, upscale as your TVs and other stuff increase in quality.

    And conversely, games will look so much better on HDtvs that their demand will grow, more people will buy them, and they will become cheaper. Which leads me to:

    - "I don't want BluRay because I only want to play games."

    All the new consoles look better on Progressive scan TVs. Progressive Scan TVs are also quickly getting cheaper, and the advantage of flatpanel TVs is making them very popular. Someone who buys a new console early in the lifespan of a console either buys them for a unique gaming experience or because the games look better, so they will be tempted to get a new matching TV as well. If you can't afford a proper HDtv, some will use the fairly cheap PC monitors of which many can display most progressive resolutions just fine also.

    - "Games don't need all the space a BluRay drive offers"

    Hmm, typically, yes they will. Just a moment ago for instance on http://www.ninjatheory.co m (in the forums) I saw one of the devs confirm that they will need and use the extra space the BluRay offers. You really think that if on the good old PS2, with 32mb of RAM, God of War cost about 4.5Gb, then a game like Heavenly Sword will at most need double that?

    You probably thought that Sony's graph with the ratio between system memory and storage memory was meaningless, but to many devs, it isn't. Even if the PS2 texture you compare to was uncompressed, and the texture for a high-res PS3 was compressed, then the latter will often still need more storage space. In practice, the PS2's texture will be compressed or uncompressed depending on what suited the machine best, and this will happen again on the PS3, no doubt benefiting performance.

    - "what if BluRay loses the format war?"

    In my view, it can only not win it. But it can't lose it - even if a measly 50.000.000 gamers buy a PS3, that means its a valid format. With BluRay being important to Sony and its partners, it's a wise decision to couple the two, as there is a clear bit of synergy between BluRay and PS3 games, and you can share the required hardware very efficiently. Both exist because HDtv developments require better mass storage. If our TVs and sound-sets hadn't become good enough to show the difference between VHS and DVD, DVD wouldn't have been such a success either.

    Sorry, by the way, for these long posts - I just wish they weren't necessary.

  • Tyronne #99 6 years ago

    A whole new video standard!Sony cannot fail can they after all just look what a great worldwide success their Betamax standard was in the battle against VHS...er oh dear...oh dear oh dear.

    And as for £450 quid for a console,they can just go blow that one out of their arse as that is a ludicrous amount to ask for a console,way this is going give it a few years and we will be facing the first console to cost a grand.

  • CatWeazle #100 6 years ago

    Sony seem pretty keen to hoist their unwanted formats on people lately..

    UMD... Blu-Ray...

    Ultimately, people don't give that much of a shit - DVD to Blu-Ray isn't as much of a big deal as VHS to DVD. How many gamers really want to go out and re-buy their entire move collection again on a new format, before it is even established on the high-street?

    Also : "Number one, it's a games machine and we all know that. But also it's a high definition video playback device through Blu-Ray."

    For which you will need an HDMI output to appreciate it. The guy is effectively saying that the cut-down PS3 is overpriced.

    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 17:37

  • Nebularhaze #101 6 years ago


    @ Xander

    /applause

  • Fatnick #102 6 years ago

    "Then what's the point of buying a 360, really? The old Xbox which you can get for free now does a lot of great looking games on a regular TV. And have you tried GunCon games on the PS2? Now could be the time for you to do so."

    Have you seen 360 games when played on an SD tv? They look a lot better than normal Xbox games and you certainly don't need an HD-TV to appreciate them. What's wrong with with buying a 360 just for the games?

    "Hmm, typically, yes they will. Just a moment ago for instance on http://www.ninjatheory.co m (in the forums) I saw one of the devs confirm that they will need and use the extra space the BluRay offers. You really think that if on the good old PS2, with 32mb of RAM, God of War cost about 4.5Gb, then a game like Heavenly Sword will at most need double that?"

    Just as graphics technology improves and forces developers to use larger textures, compression technology improves to allow developers to cram those textures into smaller and smaller spaces. That's why oblivion comes nowhere close to filling its DVD. The real space killer is going to be FMV, but considering the graphical quality of these machines, you really shouldn't need to use it anymore.
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 17:32

  • PearOfAnguish #103 6 years ago

    In my view, it can only not win it. But it can't lose it - even if a measly 50.000.000 gamers buy a PS3, that means its a valid format.

    Just like UMD!


    Oh...
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 17:25

  • #104 6 years ago

    - "Games don't need all the space a BluRay drive offers"

    Hmm, typically, yes they will. Just a moment ago for instance on http://www.ninjatheory.co m (in the forums) I saw one of the devs confirm that they will need and use the extra space the BluRay offers. You really think that if on the good old PS2, with 32mb of RAM, God of War cost about 4.5Gb, then a game like Heavenly Sword will at most need double that?

    What is your evidence for that?
    I don't see bluray drives being rushed out for PCs to meet the demand for their games. And FYI, PCs can run games at twice the definition of the PS3 so that's no argument either.

    The old Xbox which you can get for free
    post a link. I've never seen it for free.

    No problem with the long post's I'm sure we'll put the world to rights eventually :p

  • AtomicBanana #105 6 years ago

    'er, because there are no X360 games worth buying ^_^

    er, what a pointless comment ^_^

  • funk #106 6 years ago

    where can i pick of one of those free xbox 1s?

  • old_man #107 6 years ago

    given $599+17.5% tax is about £374 I'm surprised they did not price it at £399.

    They are not off to a good start.

  • Carrybagma #108 6 years ago

    XANDER? Who he? A Xavior clone? Sounds similar, but a little inauthentic. Not as much froth and spittle.

    @Arwin: What LeDil said. I think you're barking mad, but I do try to read what you write.

    BTW - Does anyone seriously use their PS2s for DVD video playback? I was set on buying a PS2 ('cos of the extra functionality) when it first came out until someone invited me to compare the PS2 output against a dedicated DVD player. PS2 quality was poor so I got the DVD player.

    The reason I ask is because I wonder if buying a PS3 for the significant purpose of BD HD playback is not going to be so good if you're stuck with 1st gen BD playback s/w (codecs?) for the life of your console. Will the PS3 seem like a 'bargain' when there are loads of other BD players out there with much better quality and price? That's if BD survives at all.
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 17:46

  • NoCodeNed2 #109 6 years ago

    Dear lord would all the people who say they're not going to buy a PS3, please just say it once, it'll have more impact and make reading the comments a lot more interesting.

    thankyou.

  • MrGrumpy.au #110 6 years ago

    I'm getting tired of defending Sony - can't someone unfairly attack the 360 or the Wii so I can defend them for a bit? Just for some variation? :D

    @arwin, where have you been for the last year the Xbox 1 & 360 have been the cause of many flamewars. :D

    Anyhow I hope both HD-DVD & Bluray fail (not the PS3 part of Bluray), I've heard the same thing from everyone I've talked to and it's the same old "What! so I have to buy my entire DVD collection again. I've only had my DVD hardware for 4-5 years and they want me to upgrade?"

    There are very decent DVD players out there that upscale quite amazingly or even better still if you have a media center PC it will do just fine.

    Please Sony just drop the whole "it's a great low priced Bluray player/media machine" and focus on what the "Play" in Playstation means your bloody games!
    Edited by 3 at 18/05/06 @ 17:52

  • prettyboytim #111 6 years ago

    The importers are going to go crazy over this one...

    With a £110 difference between the US price and the UK price, there's an awful lot of room for profit on the grey market.

  • NoCodeNed2 #112 6 years ago

    Mr.Grumpy - you can still play your DVDs on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, no need to buy your collection again. I think that's going to be the big difference from the VHS->DVD transition.

  • Arwin #113 6 years ago

    ManicMiner:
    For Sony, that would have been 'only'. You are aware of the sales figures of the PS1 and PS2, right? If you're really a man of your word, you might want to hold on to your desk and start thinking of ways of making it more pala-table.

    Carry:
    I have never bought a DVD player, and from the day I bought the PS2 I have only used the PS2 as a DVD player. It could have been a bit louder in terms of sound output but other than that I have little complaints to be honest. Picture quality is just fine. (Though yes, it could be a bit quieter, that I do agree with)

    The advantages of the PS3/Cell is that the BluRay player part will be software only this time around and will be easily upgradeable, so the BluRay player can just improve, third party interfaces can be built, and so on. There's not really a lot of hardware than can be improved this time around, with everything going to the outputs already being digital and especially HDMI should hold for a long time.

  • tonynibbles #114 6 years ago

    LeDilettante: Arwin, please keep your posts short.

    What the fuck?
    Haven't you got a job to do or some forums you've some kind of actual authoritar on to be reading? Jesus. It's a 'free world'!

  • Gurgeh #115 6 years ago

    Hopefully the answer to "who will win, Blu-Ray or HDDVD?" is neither. By the time HDTVs become widespread there will doubtless be another format on the horizon.

    HVD anyone? (consumer versions due 2007... a mere $3,000 per player and $100 per disc)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

    "These disks have the capacity to hold up to 3.9 terabytes (TB) of information, which is approximately... 160 times the capacity of single-layer Blu-ray Discs"

  • IP #116 6 years ago

    :: If you think a Blu-Ray player by itself might be £600-700

    What with DVD players costing anything down to £30-odd these days, a device costing 20 times as much is easily going to make it the standard in every home! No, wait: the other one!

  • BartonFink #117 6 years ago

    You are the ultimate Sony fanboi Arwin - never bought a DVD player just use the PS2. Says an awful lot. Your posts are nearly as full of bullshine as a Sony PR spokesperson. You sure you don't work for Sony?

  • theindustrialone #118 6 years ago

    "For 425 British Pounds I could buy another 360, a bag of finest skunk, an hour in the company of the most comely Russian prostitute (where I would go for a 'hat trick' of all three holes, possibly whilst smoking the skunk), and probably have change for a chunky Kit Kat left over! Any of which individually would be a million times more fun than the fucking B$3! "

    Flawless logic!

  • MrGrumpy.au #119 6 years ago

    @NoCodeNed2, but that's exactly what they don't want you to do. They want people to purchase their movies all over again, it is the motion picture industry we're talking about here.

    VHS has been around for decades and was showing it's age, DVD isn't in that boat yet.

    /Looks at all his useless Beta video tapes and feels extremely depressed.

  • Mr_Brown #120 6 years ago

    £425 for a console...? Never going to happen. I'd be pushed to buy a console for £300. Time for the Sony fanboys to put their money where there mouth is now I guess. I seriously doubt all those Chav's mums can afford that with their benefit money. Sony's lost already.

  • Netfreak #121 6 years ago

    Screw the PS3, X360 here I come!!

  • cyacomini #122 6 years ago

    What was the Saturn when it arrived over here - £399

    That went well didn't it.

    /ends thread in one fell swoop.

  • Xerx3s #123 6 years ago

    "XANDER IS BACK!
    ALL PRAISE XANDER!"

    All hail! ;p

    "Good for you but dont forget to take a WII as well."

    +1 Rev ftw :)

    I see that alot of sony fanboys are getting grumpy by all the critisism, even though they where the same ppl who did the same to the 360. What comes around... ;p

  • Scrumhalf #124 6 years ago

    I have a £2000 Panasonic Plasma HDTV and am getting SkyHD installed next week, and have fully embraced HD. I also have a 360, which is my favourite console M$ have done so much right, this is hard for me to say as I generally hate M$ and am a big fan of Apple.

    I could afford a PS3 and was looking forward to it, but it is too expensive.
    I do want an HD player of some sort, but I will wait for the price to come down and I will not be forced into making a decision on the format, which is way from simple, by Sony.

  • Carrybagma #125 6 years ago

    No! Xander is a fraud!

    DEMAND full value for the time you waste on internet forums by calling for the RESUSITATION of *Xavior*, and the RETURN of proper Microsoft fanboy bile!

    For he is 'the special one'.

  • paulf #126 6 years ago

    personally i doubt whether blu-ray or hd-dvd will be a big success, for me it will be video on demand on set top boxes such as telewest's tv-drive and skys hd-box, then ultimately hd video on demand over the internet through your media centre hub.

  • Scimarad #127 6 years ago

    I like Warhawk and Resistance but not that much!

    /waits for FFXIII in 2008

  • Machetazo #128 6 years ago

    "The point is that most people don't realise what they're actually getting with PlayStation 3," Maguire said.

    "Number one, it's a games machine and we all know that. But also it's a high definition video playback device through Blu-Ray, and a lot of people don't really understand that part of the functionality either. There's a big story to tell people and a lot of information to be taken on board."

    "But you think about the price, think about the price of just a Blu-Ray player. It will be cheaper than a Blu-Ray player just by itself. So fundamentally we're going to be great value just from that point of view without even looking at the games side."

    The above ^^^ shows COMPLETELY THE WRONG ATTITUDE.

    It isn't that we "don't understand", Mr. Sony, it's just that we don't really need your BluRay player. The fire just isn't there. Unlike DVD, where your company offered a bargain entry point to a burgeoning and highly regarded media format, through the second generation of your popular Playstation branded games console; here, you're effectively asking people to sign up as guinea pigs for an unproven format, that at this point, to the majority is seen as unnecessary.

    When all the consoles have launched, I will be shopping for the best GAMES CONSOLE. I imagine a good number of other potential buyers will be viewing things along those lines.

    I wonder if Sony sent the pitch in the article to a site devoted to love of film and media, if the feedback would be any different!
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 20:09

  • NthSimulachum #129 6 years ago

    Regarding HVD, I wonder if it will ever be used to store game data...3.9 TB... you could fit roughly 557 Xbox games on one of those.

    What the fuck needs 3.9 TB? Have all the simpsons episodes ever on a single disc?

    Hell, on a couple of HVDs you could probably store a human brain. Not only commentaries on a film, but an actual copy of James Cameron you can interact with.

  • cyacomini #130 6 years ago

    @ Machetazo

    Totally agree with you there buddy

    UMD case in point

  • yorkiebar #131 6 years ago

    If you do a currencey conversion on $599 for a US premium PS3 it comes to about £316 - so the idea that £425 is a bargain suddenly becomes even more of an insult.

    Sony - mental.

  • effinwooly #132 6 years ago

    give me a 360 and a wii anyday..........stupid stupid sony !!!

  • belteshazzar #133 6 years ago

    what we are all forgetting is the frenzy of auctioneering that the ps2 went through when it was launched. People were buying empty boxes for £500.

    $ony know that the hardcore 'early adopters' will take it from behind so they can maximise their profits at launch (even though they spew out repeatedly that they will be making a loss on hardware - an utter lie - "profit is a dirty word";).

    The frenzy that arises this time round will again spark the media storm and the PR snowball will roll on as per usual. The dust will settle around May 2007. Wii will shift more units because it is affordable, accessible, innovative and fun.

    The fun creative brand that was Playstation was hijacked by accountants and lawyers, dicks like Maquire and co will perpetuate they're formula but unsuccessfully. DVD is established. it helped get their foot in out homes. Blueray is not wanted, will fail.

    A successful company is one that can learn effectively. And I hate $ony. I hope they fail.

  • pac666 #134 6 years ago

    At that price I won't have to panic about getting one on lauch day. Only the faithful (who buy every console ever released) will buy one. I am one of those faithful, better start saving as with two games this is expensive (Heavenly Sword and as yet unnanounced Wipeout sequel should do it!)
    Edited by 2 at 18/05/06 @ 21:05

  • Steroyd #135 6 years ago

    I think people are underestimating High Definition here, Sky can't keep up with demand for the set top Box that lets people watch the world cup in HD, HD is getting talked about everwhere on the TV, from the BBC all the way to Sky. (meanin a lot of people who paid for a £2000 HDTV to watch the World Cup in HD can't)

    Argos are selling HDTV's for £500, and i expect the prices to dip even further by November.

    Blu-ray could be the answer to what we're about to ask, Blu-ray isn't limited to movies either (cue DVD9's are enough for this generation BS).

    Aren't there people who pay £400 for the latest Gfx card?
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 21:06

  • Kami #136 6 years ago

    People have done the Euros conversion... but in todays market, £420 equates to $803.5

    At a $600 for the US, we'll be paying a directly converted £105 more for the PS3 than America.

    Rip-off Britain? Nah, surely not...

  • bigbadbeasty #137 6 years ago

    @ Aren't there people who pay £400 for the latest Gfx card?

    Yes there are people who buy graphics cards at this price. But a very very small percentage of people. The most common graphics card is a Intel on-board video card.

    I have a HD TV, and will plan to get HD items in the future, however I am in the minority. If you calculate the cost of a nice HD TV, a PS3, and a couple of games you are looking at £2000. Now that is alot of money.

    People simply cannot afford that.

    At that price it makes the Wii seem like dream to parents at christmas!

  • admir #138 6 years ago

    i read at 1up.com that it will cost 425 euros not pounds

  • e-z #139 6 years ago

    :D
    yeah, the problem is that i don't want bluray - for me dvds have been just good enuff and i'm not enjoying a 7.1 soundsystem either. hd - sounds good/why not, but my movies don't need to be ~50gb.

  • Rambaldi #140 6 years ago

    425....couple of games, extra pad.....600+....yeah.....that's really gonna convince mum and dad this christmas, cos after all, they're just DYING for a cheap Blu-Ray player...

    ...ever consider WHY it's a cheap Blu-ray player, Mom?

  • Yossarian #141 6 years ago

    "I think people are underestimating High Definition here, Sky can't keep up with demand for the set top Box that lets people watch the world cup in HD, HD is getting talked about everwhere on the TV, from the BBC all the way to Sky. (meanin a lot of people who paid for a £2000 HDTV to watch the World Cup in HD can't)"

    so wait I have to subscribe to something to get BBC HD? that sucks

  • BartonFink #142 6 years ago

    @Rambaldi - more like what's Blu-ray?

  • Rambaldi #143 6 years ago

    @Yossarian

    "Blu-Ray is the thread Sony's future as a corporation hangs by, and it's a shame they're potentially going to hurt the sales of their one profitable division in an attempt to sneak Blu-Ray into people's homes like some sort of videogame Trojan horse"

    A-men.

  • admir #144 6 years ago

    people were saying same about the psp and it still sells well

  • Rambaldi #145 6 years ago

    Betamax...MiniDisc...UMD....don't these buggers LEARN?
    Edited by 1 at 18/05/06 @ 22:35

  • chavatar #146 6 years ago

    Has anyone just considered being, well, patient? It's good value for money, aids informed decision making, helps the blood pressure. Downside is, I suppose, you don't look so great being last on the block with your shiny, new toy/supercomputer.

    /apologises for being jaded and to those who have considered it

  • BartonFink #147 6 years ago

    Err that would be Phillips

  • bigbadbeasty #148 6 years ago

    I do find it amusing that they have priced it so consumers can buy both a 360 and a Wii together for the same price as a PS3.......

  • coderkind #149 6 years ago

    £425? They can suck me sideways.

  • speedstars13 #150 6 years ago

    That's hellva cheap. Look at iPod, they're like (overrated) shit and cost about $400.

  • BigHairyBear #151 6 years ago

    This comments section is pretty interesting....It seems quite a few people want Sony to fail this time round.Fair enough, I'm no Sony fan at all (my ps2 went ages ago in exchange for my xbox..) but I know they have been pretty much totally responsible for the gaming industry's success over the last few years.
    In fact, thinking about it, everyone of my friends/work buddies has a console of some sort in their home..whether it's for their kids or themselves, they are all pretty savied up when it comes to games...and yes,most are ps2's. I remember when I was the only one out of our "crowd" who owned a console..now the industry is huge and lot's of people enjoy gaming as much as film or sport. Now think back a minute...Isn't this what us gamers always wanted? Who bought this about? MS?Sega?Ninty?....

    My point is this...I really hope you lot are wrong and Sony don't fail..if they ended up doing a "Sega" as far as gaming consoles go, who will we be left with?

    Could we Really trust MS and Ninty with the future of our hobby?

    Don't get me wrong...I'm not getting a PS3, but only cos I would be strung up by the other half( the 360 purchase was a tactical masterpiece which i couldn't get away with again!!) but I think the gaming world would be in a poor state without Sony..The success or failure of the PS3/Blue-ray is going to have a dramatic effect on our much loved hobby...."you mark my words,youngsters!"

    I know I've gone off at a tangent a bit, but it's always worried me how many gamers want the biggest gaming company to destory itself..I dunno just seems daft to me....

  • BartonFink #152 6 years ago

    Apart from the most ardent fanbois I don't think many gamers would like to see Sony fail. That would be very very bad for the industry. People just seem to be a little fed up with their arrogance and the pricing really has done them no favours at all.

  • bigbadbeasty #153 6 years ago

    BigHairyBear, you make some interesting comments. However I do not agree that we all wanted 'our' hobby to be a mainstream thing. Has it helped the industry, no. Do we get amazing different games, no. We get loads of rehashed crappy games that appeal to Joe Public. For every Ico, or Zelda, you get 100+ poor titles.

    Without a doubt Sony started this, but I for one am not thanking them for it....

  • BartonFink #154 6 years ago

    That's a little unfair we were getting constant rehashes of games long before Sony came on the scene. Personally I blame the likes of EA for those particular crimes against gaming. What Sony have done is bring it to the masses. The likes of EA see the masses buying these games time and time again so they keep making them. Every now and again gems like Jak and Daxter, Ico, God of War, etc come along that make up for it in some part.
    Blame EA blame the masses they are the ones buying this crap. If anything the first party and second party games from Sony are mostly the cream on that platform sometimes hidden among all the dross.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 00:30

  • bigbadbeasty #155 6 years ago

    I know, but I did enjoy it more when not everyone and his dog thought he/she was a gaming genius.

  • ali-uk #156 6 years ago

    Honestly, I can say 'fu', since GTA and Smackdown, as well as Halo 3 are all appearing on the X360. For me, I can't see why I'd buy PS3 (around launch anyway).

  • Lemon Project #157 6 years ago

    It seems 95% of the Sony complaints here are from people who obviously hated em anyway. Sony would be morons not to include Bluray in PS3. Successful companies have been leveraging their interests forever. Don't you 360 fanboys get on your high-horse because Microsoft are champions at it. Personally I'm aghast at the price. Here in Aus I'm being asked to shell $999 for the thing. That said I acknowledge $999 is more than decent for a next gen media player, souped up 7800gtx and wireless out of the box. And let's face it while the early price-point is hideous I'm still anticipating some amazing content from games created for 25/50gb media as the months and years go by this generation.

  • Kami #158 6 years ago

    Thing is, as has been said, a Blu-ray player is supposed to cost more than a PS3. A couple hundred quid more.

    Hands up those who have a PS2 or X-Box (or both). Most of us. OK, now hands up if you also have a proper, seperate DVD player. Again, I'd assume that is most of us.

    Why is that? They are specificlly designed for their purpose, like why we use a PS2 or X-Box to play games... that is their main purpose. Yes, we could use a PS2 or X-Box to play DVDs, but those players aren't of the same quality as a proper DVD player. It's sad but true. We use a console to play games, and a DVD player to watch movies.

    The problem with this "Cheap Blu-ray in PS3" thing is this... at the end of the day, it's a games console. Sony can prance around the issue as much as they like, it's a games console. People who are convinced in Blu-ray are going to be willing to fork out the extra for a Blu-ray player that isn't stripped down or questionable in its ability to function.

    This whole "It's a bargain!" shit gets me... sorry Sony, the old addage is true. If it looks too good to be true...

  • KD #159 6 years ago

    I dont think anyone wants to see sony die, just what they are doing this time around is a piss take. I hope they fail wiht ps3 then actually learn a lesson and give us a ps4 with no shitty new tech drive for a affordable price that is centred on what its for "gaming".

    DVD's were such an improvment on VHS that everyone wanted a dvd player, even my grandparents got one and they are the wrong side of 70yrs old, this time they are shouting about blueray but whats gonna happen when people who are 40+ and barley grasp technology anymore are gonna want to upgrade so soon when the last tech they had (VHS) lasted how many years? thats what pushed DVD's so far for the common person.

    And also what about the people who dont even buy original DVD's anymore and just buy the latest blockbuster off the guy in work for £3, partly caused by the UK getting films so late but i cant see the "but its cheap really" argument getting all those with copied dvd films to upgrade then buy single films for £20 (if they dont push the price up). While thinking about that how much are the PS3 games going to cost? £50 or even £60?

    Keep your ps3 sony until you either take that stupid drive out and drop the price to £250 or drop the price and accept the demise of another sony media standard. I liked my ps2 alot but they can count on me "not" giving them another £ of my money for a long time

    R.I.P betamax, UMD, Blueray!
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 01:29

  • BartonFink #160 6 years ago

    minidisc

  • admir #161 6 years ago

    people were saying same about the psp and it still sells well

  • MyPointIs #162 6 years ago

    Well I'm normally console-neutral. But whenever Sony has tried to IMPOSE a new format that PEOPLE DIDN'T NEED, it has been a disaster (Like the minidisc, the UMD or that bloody alternative to the MP3).

    People doesn't like to be told what to do. And now they HAVE an alternative. X360 games are as good as PS3 games, as of today and it'll be like that for a while.

    So why is the SONY brand going to make a difference this time?

    It didn't help the minidiscs, did it?

  • Psi #163 6 years ago

    you have to admire their balls in marketing. I mean at the end of the day it's like they're selling a car to someone that wants a bus pass!

    me:no sorry sony i don't want a car, i just want a bus pass
    sony: so, would you like aircon and full leather?
    me: no sony, i just want a bus pass, i need to get from A to B on a budget
    sony: ill pretend you didnt say that sir, you are mistaken and do not know what you want, now if you'd just like to give me far more money then is nessisary ill get started on the paperwork.
    me: look, i know what I want, I know what to expect paying and I think you should listen to your customers
    sony: oh, your european! I'll just add that onto the final value..... really are getting a deal her sir.

  • RedPanda #164 6 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Rambaldi #165 6 years ago

    I don't want to see Sony fail, I want to see arrogant, greedy, arseholes get what's coming to them. Right now, that just HAPPENS to be Sony. Cut the fanboy BS and look at the facts.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 08:04

  • BartonFink #166 6 years ago

    Well said that man and @Psi excellent analogy lol

  • Jokerr #167 6 years ago

    Don't see the problem really. If you don't think the PS3 is good value for money, don't get one it's as simple as that, buy an xbox 360 and/or Wiii instead.

    If Sony see that they are rapidly losing their market share then the price cuts will come.

  • kristo #168 6 years ago

    I reckon its always a losin solution to by new tech when its just released, as in blue ray or hd-dvd

    Firstly, you get all the bugs/problems that need to be fixed
    Secondly, you will have bugger all selection
    Thirdly, if your chosen format "dies" out, well, what good was your large initial investment.

    As I see it, the smart way to go is to sit back, let the impatient pay for the R&D costs (by buying these BR/HD-DVD players at hugely inflated prices), wait for a selection of good titles to come out.

    And as for games, I mean, if a game comes on 2 DVDs or one BR, meh, I am not so slothful that I cannot get up of the couch to change DVDs if needed. I just don't see the value yet. NOTE: yet.

  • LittleTofu #169 6 years ago

    hahahahahaha ... you boys are such babies!
    Like the PSP the PS3 will be a very tempting purchase ... If you don't like the price, shut up and don't buy it, get another job ... dam losers!

  • Psi #170 6 years ago

    BartonFink cheers man, I often wonder if everyone on the site has me on ignore, glad to see at least one doesn't :)

  • Psi #171 6 years ago

    @ LittleTofu so where's your breaking point? If the ps3 was say... a grand. Would you buy it then? Can you tell me exactly what you would pay? What point would you think, actually I'm not getting value for money here.

    I'll link to my eBay account where I'm selling sky hooks, white elephants and tartan paint. As long as your throwing money away it may as well be my way :)

    For the record if the ps3 was the same price as the 360 it would come down to the games with me. Just like with the re-release of ico and shadow of the collosus, i was ready to buy a new ps2 console at £100 just to have access to these games. Games cause me to make that leap in hardware purchasing.

  • Yossarian #172 6 years ago

    also, it took five years or so for DVD to catch on, regardless of how huge a leap it was, and nobody had to update their TV to do so either. this plan just isn't going to fly, Sony.

  • LittleTofu #173 6 years ago

    hey PSI agree with you on it's about software not so much hardware, SingStar PS3 will make me jump on it. as for the price, i can wait for the price to drop, or i can save some cash for launch, haven't decided yet, but not sweating over it.
    btw, I like elephants.

  • NoCodeNed2 #174 6 years ago

    @MrGrumpy - "@NoCodeNed2, but that's exactly what they don't want you to do"

    And they'll stop you how exactly? They play DVDs - they're backwards compatible.

    I give them at least enough credit to realise they can't force people to re-buy their DVD collections, instead they'll have to incentivise the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD releases with HD content and bonus content. They'll re-release classics like Alien etc. in HD, because some people will want that (again with new bonus content, probably) it'll also be a long, long transition. And I, for one, am glad that both camps have realised that the transition to HD has to be done with full backwards compatabillity to DVD.

    I'm still not overly fussed about it (though I would like a flat screen to replace my hulking CRT and don't see the point in not getting HD when I can afford it) but I am glad that it's going to be built on existing technology and not leave my DVD collection redundant.

    Just my reckoning, you understand.

  • LittleTofu #175 6 years ago

    a question for all of us(with hulking CRTs) ... where does one dispose of last generations hulking CRT TVs?? Selling one aint that easy.

  • Psi #176 6 years ago

    @ LittleTofu you wanna see my elephant?

    /me pulls his pockets inside out



    yeah i've got nothing but crt's an iiyma 22" monitor and a 32" tosh tv. and hdcp will not work on them. I'll get standard def but dvd's more than adequate for that.

  • #177 6 years ago


    When I first bought the PS2 I did not have a DVD player. But the PS2 gave me the possibility to buy DVDs and play them back on it. As my DVD collection grew I bought a new 32" progressive scan widescreen unit, time to get a decent DVD player. At the time I bought the DVD player it cost me approx. 799Euro/£560UK. It has SACD/DVDAUDIO, progressive scan and component outputs. With the PS3 I will have a very cheap entry Blu-ray disc player and an awsome games machine.

    Now, the PS3 has a HDMI output and it has more than enough power to decode the Blue-ray data stream. As time goes by the software that is used to playback Blu-ray disks will improve and be updated. So, I think the PS3 as a dedicated BD player has longer lifespan than what the PS2 had as a DVD player, also because it has wireless remote as standard.

    I fail to see, for me, that the PS3 is not great value.

  • Kafeen #178 6 years ago

    People have done the Euros conversion... but in todays market, £420 equates to $803.5

    At a $600 for the US, we'll be paying a directly converted £105 more for the PS3 than America.

    Rip-off Britain? Nah, surely not...
    £425 includes VAT. $600 doesn't include sales tax since its different from state to state.

  • #179 6 years ago

    2 Points:

    1) If MS can really sell 10m 360s by the time the PS3 is out, all game developers will want a slice of that market - AKA multi-format releases all round. That means the capacity of the Blu-Ray disc will never be needed (except for every localisation of a game on one disc - WOW!)

    2) I think a lot more of even the "tech-savvy" punters out there may steer clear of the PS3 because it is so new tech. Why take all the flak and get a dodgy first-gen drive when you can wait a bit and see if any issues spring up and then get second-gen drives that have all the problems ironed out?

    Am I right in thinking that DVD drives were already appearing in PCs quite a lot before the PS2 - will this be the case in 6 months when the PS3 comes out? If PC games don't need BluRay, I can't see why consoled would. How big was Oblivion, Half-Life etc? What's the biggest game to ever have been made? And whay was it so big - lots of FMV?

  • SimonM7 #180 6 years ago

    Thing is, I think it's reasonable to argue that games will take up more space than DVD can offer this generation, and I think the thought of swapping discs is quite depressing.

    HD FMV content will take up tons of space, and primarily japanese developers seem rather intent on continuing to offer pre-rendered cutscenes as opposed to embracing realtime sequences, regardless of how similar the quality will be.

    Hansi's points are also quite valid, and I can definitely identify with it although for me it didn't really make me buy DVDs until the Xbox came out. The playback in the PS2 was just so poor and out of sync back then, and I didn't even buy particularly early. Hm.

    Anyway, it's really not the actual fact that there's a BR drive in there that bothers people, it's that we're paying loads extra just to get it. Even with the DVD, the price of the PS2 was pretty comparable to consoles before it - notably the Saturn - and even the Xbox was quite steep when it first came out. Even so, it wasn't close to these absolutely rediculous amounts of money.

    I'm a launch freak, I really am. I love getting the new stuff on day 1, it's the one thing that turns me back into the 8 year old kid, unpacking my NES. However, unless there are some insanely strong release titles (the absence of which usually doesn't bother me to the point where it puts me off) I just can't bring myself to get one. It's not out of principle, brand hate, fanboyism or even really the lack of that kind of money - by no means implying I'm loaded, I just have no problem spending money on my one expensive hobby - but there's a point where a price doesn't feel right. It takes the fun out of the purchase because you don't feel like you're really going to get proportional enjoyment from it.

    I mean at the end of the day it is really a 360, regardless of what franchises are tied to it, and suddenly the extra capacity on the BR discs becomes far too expensive to justify.

  • manic_mouse #181 6 years ago

    As I said in another thread, this years E3 and aftermath have been an utter disaster for Sony. A lot of the claims they made about the PS3 last year to detract from the 360 launch have turned out to be nothing but bare-faced lies (twice as powerful, dual 1080p, Killzone etc), the games shown this year were unimpressive (except MGS4) and they've priced themselves out of the casual market.

    I really think a lot of people that were holding out for the PS3 are simply going to go out and buy 360's over the next few months. Those who would buy the PS3 at any price of course will still do so, but those are not the kind of people who make up the bulk of console sales. The news that GTA is now being released on both PS3 and Xbox 360 simultaneously will also hurt PS3 sales. What Sony are relying on to make the PS3 a success are Blu Ray movies. The problem with this is that not everyone has HDTVs, and even those that do may not want to take a chance on a unproven format and replace their entire DVD collection.

    You know what they say: Pride comes before a fall. And Sony have certainly been full of pride lately...

  • NoCodeNed2 #182 6 years ago

    @JamesPhilp - you do realise that all localisations on one disc (Wow!TM ; ) would make global releases of software a reality. No more Europe getting shafted possibly?

    Yes, there were DVD drives for PCs but they were very expensive, one of the good things the PS2 did for DVDs was dramatically reduce the cost of them by mass producing the tech on such a large scale and driving the install base. It's undoubtedly the model that both Sony and the content holders that are backing it are hoping to repeat.

    Proper film nuts and tech nuts wll buy brand new tech, they always do (that's why they're nuts ; )

  • #183 6 years ago

    NoCode,
    Yes, I can see that advantage for sure but then:
    Bluray movies will never be globally regioned
    I hate manuals with every language on earth on them
    We are unlikely to see global boxart etc - so what is the real advantage of every single language of 1 game on 1 disc?
    If anything it will delay launches of games, as they will need to be translaated into the relevant languages before 'global' launch (e.g. imaging translating oblivion into japanee to any quality!!). If this isn't going to happen, then what's the point of having a disc so big anyway?

  • mankell #184 6 years ago

    @ manic mouse

    Spot on.

    We all love our consoles but when someone starts taking the piss then enoughs enough.

    Plan of action>

    Buy a 360 now. Enjoy Next-gen gaming. Wait until enough PS3 games have been release to make a nice back catalogue. PS3 price drop because sales have stalled due to fucking criminal price. Sell 360. Buy PS3. Enjoy.

    So simple its scary.

  • daveo #185 6 years ago

    Did eurogamer ask why there was such a disparity in the exchange rates between USD, EUR and GBP? Please tell me you didnt give these guys an easy ride....

  • mankell #186 6 years ago

    @ daveo

    They don't need to ask. Its cos were British and we take it up the arse regularly.

  • #187 6 years ago

    I think you may want to wonder what VAT really means. And probably some kind of extortionate import duty too.

    Yes ladies and gents, our government screws us every day.

  • Fatnick #188 6 years ago

    "Thing is, I think it's reasonable to argue that games will take up more space than DVD can offer this generation, and I think the thought of swapping discs is quite depressing.

    HD FMV content will take up tons of space, and primarily japanese developers seem rather intent on continuing to offer pre-rendered cutscenes as opposed to embracing realtime sequences, regardless of how similar the quality will be."

    FMV aside, there really isn't a reason why games will take up more space than DVD can offer. For a start, many games this gen barely filled half of a DVD and even then this was largely because of FMV. Sure, aspects such as textures are probably going to get a lot larger this gen, but this is offset by the fact compression technology is better and by techniques such as procedural synthesis cutting down on the amount of data that needs to be stored on the disk. Developers this generation will simply have to live without lots of space-hungry this generation. Which isn't too much to ask, considering the quality of real-time graphics on the 360.

    "@JamesPhilp - you do realise that all localisations on one disc (Wow!TM ; ) would make global releases of software a reality. No more Europe getting shafted possibly?"

    But surely the problem historically has been less to do with the medium and more to do with the nature of localisation itself? The problem has not been the physical production of disks, but the fact that while Japanese and American versions only need to cater to one language group, the Euro version has to cater to several. Blu Ray won't make the localisation process run any faster.

  • Steroyd #189 6 years ago

    But surely the problem historically has been less to do with the medium and more to do with the nature of localisation itself? The problem has not been the physical production of disks, but the fact that while Japanese and American versions only need to cater to one language group, the Euro version has to cater to several. Blu Ray won't make the localisation process run any faster.

    Maybe not but like the PS3's "delay" instead of Final Fantasy coming out in Japan 2006, America 2007 and Euro 2009, the Japan and American versions all get put onto one disc, and delayed until 2008 worldwide.

    In the end only the US and Japan would suffer Mwahahaha.

    Oh yeah have people ever considered that the Hard Drive is what rose the price upto $500 not Blu-ray.
    Weren't Sony not going to put the HDD in as standard?

  • SimonM7 #190 6 years ago

    The funny thing is that I'm not particularly keen on the 40gbs of extra space either, and definitely not if it's just a standard hard drive - hence you can stick any hard drive you've got lying around in it anyway.

    I mean, hell, looking at the 360 content I have, basically all of it is stuff I could just aswell delete once I'd watched it, and quite frankly if I miss it so much I can just download it again. I realise that once you actually put stuff on the HDs regularly it's gonna be more useful, but until then, give me the 20gb version any day.

    Also, for games, HDMI seems rather pointless.

    If the games are truly region free, then importing a US 20gb version seems well worth it.

  • mono_eric3 #191 6 years ago

    Anyone know for sure if that price includes VAT?

    If you add VAT it comes in at a clean £499.

    Not impressed that the whole selling point of this is that you get a cheap blu-ray player (and if the stand-alone ones are £600+ then its probably a cheap-ass blu-ray player).

    I do not want to see sony fall, at all. Their arrogance could do with a knock, don't get me wrong (I think E3 was enough for me), but they seem to be stumbling at basic PR. What happened to sony being the masters at this kind of stuff?

    Somehow the whole PS3 is now tarnished by a sense of afterthought and half-arsedness in my mind. I think the men in suits at sony need to start doing some work for a change if they are going to win back the masses.

    : D

  • mankell #192 6 years ago

    "I think you may want to wonder what VAT really means"

    Very Arrogant Tits

    Errm

    Vaguely annoying Tossers

    The question was regarding Sony wasn't it?

  • Madder-Max #193 6 years ago

    Many people including myself dont have an HDtv so thats neither here nor meh really. Also, i have a collection of normal DVD's not blue ray and my PS2 plays those. now I know that the next GTA game is gonna be on the 360 then thats what I'm gonna do. Buy a 360 and wait for prices to tumble on HDtv's and blue ray dvd's and buy them as seperate items a few years down the line. I want a games machine!! I might have a Wii at some point too if it is as new an experience as it makes out. Online gaming has no interst for me.

  • manic_mouse #194 6 years ago

    "Buy a 360 now. Enjoy Next-gen gaming. Wait until enough PS3 games have been release to make a nice back catalogue. PS3 price drop because sales have stalled due to fucking criminal price. Sell 360. Buy PS3. Enjoy. "

    Exactly, my man. Paying over £400 for a games console is sheer lunacy IMHO. I nearly didn't buy my 360 because it was £280 which I thought was pushing it. You can argue that the Blu-Ray drive is added value, but it isn't really until (and if) Blu-Ray wins the format war. What if it were too lose, would the £425 you spent on the PS3 seem worth it then?

    When the (full) PS3 falls below £300 I think I might pick one up. However in the mean time Sony had better have a stellar lineup of games to compete with the 360 if they hope to justify the PS3's price tag.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:19

  • Kami #195 6 years ago

    @ Kafeen,

    Yes, I figured that, also not taking into account other expenses.

    But even after all that, we'll still end up paying far more for a PS3 than anywhere else.

    But then, this is Sony, and that shouldn't really be any surprise to anyone...

  • daveo #196 6 years ago

    $599 = €470 = £319
    €599 = £407
    PS3 = 425 (+vat?)

    Has any "journalist" asked the question above of is everyone too scared of not being allow to talk to Sony any more?

  • mankell #197 6 years ago

    @ daveo

    You've not added sales tax on for the States. I think that varies from 0 to 8% but your right its a question not just for Sony but for other international manufacturers and politicians.

    If you cut me in half I've got Sony written through my bones but I will not pay £425 for a bloody games console.

    In fact I've just bought a 360 this afternoon. So long Sony you've just lost a loyal fan.

  • daveo #198 6 years ago

    =£345 inc tax

    i've got virtually every console known to man, bit i'll be darned if im going to shell out 500 quid on the latest piece of sony kit.

    Has sony ever justified the cost difference or are we paying for the americans discount?

    Sick of this country ;-(

  • speedstars13 #199 6 years ago

    I have one solution for all you whiney, bloody blokes: Don't buy PS3 if you cannot afford one.

  • avolee #200 6 years ago

    could PS3 be the new PSX, and we all remember that catastrophe.

  • Kami #201 6 years ago

    I could happilly afford one. Sure most of us could. But we're consumers and we have a right to question whether we're getting value for money from our products.

    If you believe it will be great, then I won't stand here and correct you. But I'm just as of yet unconvinced and think it is a lot of money for what is, at the end of the day, a games console...

  • admir #202 6 years ago

    600 us dollars i think its a good price for the sony ps3 really don't know why people make a big deal about. you got enough time to save money if you wanna get a ps3

  • Virvel #203 6 years ago

    Youre a moaning bunch of spoiled fu*%ers, arent you?

    Guys, Sony will release THE gaming machine for the future, and you complain about the price?

    It is not expensive for a new console that is technically superior to XBox and has 54 Gb's of storage space. XBox-360 with its 9Gb DVD-drive is OK today but will start lagging behind pretty soon. Also expect PS3 to outperform the 360 by a factor of 2 when it comes to graphics quality. Close to a 100% backwards compatibility with PS1 & PS2 is another great thing. Thousands of PS2 games readily available very cheaply, either used hard-copies or downloadable from PS3-Live.

    But I agree with all of you in that Blue-Ray movies are fiction, we dont even know wether Blue-Ray will become a standard. But it WILL be the standard on PS3-games. And believe me, it will show when developers start utilising those discs!

    Also remember that PS3 will have a very long lifespan, might even be longer than the PS2. The old X-Box lasted for 4 years, a short life-span for a console. The 360 will suffer the same fate. When Microsoft starts lagging behind the PS3 at the end of 2007, they will immediately start planning the next console :)

    This is what I think will happen in the next few years in terms of market shares between the different companies:

    2006 :

    - X-Box 360 will continue to sell well with hardcore gamers but will never penetrate to the mass market because....
    - PS2 will continue to dominate Microsoft's ass, outselling the 360 in all territories.
    - By Christmas, the PS3 will really start penetrating the market with a 5-10% market share.

    2007 :

    - PS3 will during the first half of 2007 pass the 360 in terms of units sold, and Microsoft will get dominated by Sony in this generation as well.
    - PS2 will continue to outsell the 360, but will start to die at the end of the year
    - Which leaves us with this market situation at the end of 2007:

    PS3 : 30-40 %
    PS2 : 40-50 %
    360 : 10-30 %
    Wii : 10-30 %

    2008 :

    - PS3 will crush the 360 in terms of units and games sold. Expect a 40-60% market share early this year.
    - PS2 starts to die. The 360 pars or goes past it in terms of units/games sold..
    - Wii goes past the 360


    But by all means, HAPPY GAMING. The 360 looks quite good, altough I wont buy

    Personally I will buy the Wii this fall and perhaps consider the PS3. 360 doesnt look that interesting, it severly lacks in games.



    Edited by 3 at 19/05/06 @ 22:36

  • Kami #204 6 years ago

    Virvel, the rest of your post became almost comedic after this;

    "Guys, Sony will release THE gaming machine for the future, and you complain about the price?"

    A striking and very fanboyish statement. Then you go on to try and predict how the market will play out over the next couple of years, putting Sony firmly in a winning position.

    It is a lot of money for a games console. FACT. I could spend £425 or £500 on a range of different things... Sony have to convince people like me that out money is best sppent on their hardware.

    And what do we find? Rumble features dropped because they couldn't settle the Immersion case. A Blu-ray format as of yet unproven and experimental (when PS2 used DVD, at least at the time it was a proven format!). Minimal games on show (Though Heavenly Sword does look very VERY nice). Some companies still suggesting they don't have kits to develop for the system.

    If we were all truly convinced that the PS3 was the machine of the future, then I'm sure no-one would be quibling over the price. But recent behaviour and strong competition will inevitably lead us to ask whether PS3 really does represent good value for money, both technically and games-wise.

    It's a fair whack of money. I could buy a used car. I could go on a great holiday. New TV. PC Upgrades. And by the time PS3 comes out, you might even be able to buy TWO consoles (360 and Wii) for that kind of money.

    I won't argue with fanboys because they are sold already. But what the fanboys can't seem to understand is that the rest of us just aren't yet convinced PS3 IS the future... we're not stupid, the proof of the pudding will very much be in the eating...

  • admir #205 6 years ago

    ms did the same in the UK. the x360 costs 399$ + tax around 450 us dollars. the x360 is selling for around 550 us dollars (279.00). they fuck you guys over there i feel sorry.

    sony ps3 will sell they have good exclusive games like FF or MGS just to name 2. those 2 games have sold millions and thats like 10 millions ps3 consoles sold. as for the x360 they have some good looking games but will they play good, no one knows until it comes out. most games that come on the x360 will come out for the PC so i have no need to buy x360.
    I dont think that sony will sell the ps3 for 425.00 the price is too high.i would guess they will sell it for 379.00

  • Virvel #206 6 years ago

    Kami, you are the one who is 'comic' when dismissing my views with insults.

    Mr. Kami : It is my strong objective view, impression and belief that Sony will release THE gaming machine for the future and that the price is'nt that high . Nothing comic about that. What IS comic is your attempt at putting down people who tell things straight out, things that you are uncomfortable with. Nothing 'Fanboyish' or 'Striking' at all about my views.

    Mr. Kami: What is comic is your attempt at dismissing my market predictions. I am no analyst neither am I a genius, but dismissing other people's predictions using insulting words is what makes you the comedian in here.

    Mr. Kami: Predicting that Sony will dominate this generation as well, neither has anything comic about it. Everyone, even those who goes to great length defending their 360-purchase in this forum, knows this deep within: Sony will most probably go way past the 360 in number of units sold and richness of games. My objective view is that this will happen, Sony will dominate once again. Nothing comic or fanboy'ish about it.

    Mr. Kami: You continue talking about the lack of rumble to defend your attack on my views. Who cares about that? I know that you guys care, the hardcore or 'dedicated' gamers. But you dont matter when it comes to which console will dominate. What matters is that the main-stream guys, the 'Average Joes' buys the console. Most of them (the Joes) will buy PS3 when the price goes down, in the meantime he will buy PS2.

    Mr. Kami: You continue stating that 'if people where really convinced that PS3 is the future of gaming, noone would complain in this forum'.. That statement doesnt mean anything because Average Joe (the guy that determines which console will dominate), will never care about blogging here, he will even not read eurogamer.net... You see? Most of what is stated in these Sony-blogs are the views of anti-PS3 people (mainly insecure 360 owners), hardcore gamers getting scared of the new Sony platform. Add to that a few Sony fanboys like myself getting pissed off by all this moaning and defending the Jap's console. It has NO MEANING drawing conclusions about who will dominate the next generation by looking at what people write in this blog. YOU GUYS DONT MATTER! I DONT MATTER. Average Joe is what decides who wins. And the odds are tha Joe will continue to buy the PS2 and possibly the Wii. THEN HE WILL SWITCH TO PS3 when it drops in price.

    Mr. Kami: I know you 'early 360 adopters' or 'PS3 unbelievers' are not stupid and I know perfectly what you are : You are hardcore gamers. I am too but I am not an early 360 adopter because of several factors which I will not go into here other than I am happy about my PS2 and PC.

    Mr. Kami: You talk about the lack of rumble. Yes, it is sad that it is missing, but Average Joe will not care about this, it will not affect the sales in any significant way. I will miss it though.

    Mr. Kami: You express your doubts about Blue-Ray being an unproved format? Who cares wether BlueRay becomes a standard or not? It already IS a standard in the PS3. Not for movies, but for games. PS3 will still play DVD-movies. Blue-Ray is a bonus which will deliver much more content filled games. 54Gigabytes of content, this will SHOW in the games some years from now.

    Mr. Kami: You say you wont argue with fanboys? Well, if you argue with me ( I AM a Sony fanboy, I like their consoles) I will give you a nice mix of objective and subjective arguments producing a good discussion with a lot of intersting things surfacing. Come on KAMI!!! Come on all you early 360-adopters afraid of Sony!! Give me your best shots! I am ready for your fanboy'ish statements ;)

  • t8yman #207 6 years ago

    Virvel, you are quite plainly either 12 years old, or a very very silly man. Just because your post is (far too) long, it doesnt make it informative or true. I have owned every single console since the atari came out in the 70's, with the exception of the NES and the genesis. I bought PS1 on launch day. I severley dislike M$ absolute dominance of the PC market,I guess you could label me an M$ fanboy if you like, but I can spot a turkey a mile off, and an overpriced console with a bolted on (unproven) peripheral aint worth £425 of my or anyone elses money. I think theres gonna be a lot of diappointed charvers come christmas morning this year. The 360 will have a great catalogue by then, live is AWESOME (there is no denying) and its gonna be almost half the price of the PS3, get a grip fella.

  • chavatar #208 6 years ago

    Mr Virvel: you've made a reasonable case in many ways, but does it have to be so aggressive? It's always better to state an opinion than ram it down someone's throat. Sorry, don't mean to lecture.

    My personal take is that BluRay is a bad deal for the consumer outside of gaming and PS3 is a trojan horse to carry it into the marketplace. Buy a 360 and save the world.

    /is joking
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 10:46

  • Virvel #209 6 years ago

    t8yman, I am neither 12 years old nor a silly man.

    Just like Kami, you use insults as a response to a bunch of arguments instead of actually adressing them.

    Point to which arguments which are silly and I will promptly respond to you. I challenge you, where is the silliness? And please make sure you READ what I write.

    I have also been buying consoles since the 70's just like you.
    ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------

    And believe me, the PS3 is no 'cold turkey'. It will take over the show in a couple of years time and you know it.

    You clearly show in your response that you either havent read my posts or you do not understand them.

    All I can say is all of my arguments stand, I still think the PS3 is not overpriced.

    You are rambling about Christmas?? Who cares which console sells best for this christmas it doesnt matter in the big picture (longer term). I doubt the 360 will do that good for christmas anyway.

    Who cares about XBox-live? Hardcore gamers love it and I can see why. Its a fantastic service. But it will not help Microsoft win this battle because average Joe in the street does not want online-gaming. And as I have said multiple times before, the quality of a consoles online-service will not win this generation. PS3-live will look exactly the same anyway.

    The average guy on the street doesnt care about X-Box 360, when will that get through to people in here? You guys, using these forums, are not part of the mass-market, you DONT COUNT!

    You get a grip!

  • Virvel #210 6 years ago

    chavatar, I take your point and will stop posting these long posts.

    And I will be behave nicer.

    thanks!
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 11:11

  • t8yman #211 6 years ago


    quoted for horseshit

    "But it will not help Microsoft win this battle because average Joe in the street does not want online-gaming."

    quoted for hilarity

    "You are rambling about Christmas?? Who cares which console sells best for this christmas it doesnt matter in the big picture (longer term). I doubt the 360 will do that good for christmas anyway."

    because the worldwide marketing orgasmfest that is Christmas is simply a myth then eh?




    Its nice to see you are so familiar with average Joe and that none of the rest of us have ever met him.


    I didnt throw insults at you, I simply stated that either you are 12 years old, or very silly. And I still stand by that.

  • Carrybagma #212 6 years ago

    /checks Nintendo fanboy subscription.
    Two more weeks to go.
    /puts badge on


    A SHORT STATEMENT OF FACT FOLLOWS:

    Anyone who buys a PS3 is a filthy, thieving, diseased retard.

    /ENDS

  • Liggur #213 6 years ago

    I remember all the posts complaining about the X360's lack of HD-DVD drive, and now people are complaining that the PS3 has a next gen laser drive in it!

    Xbox 360 £280
    Wireless network Bridge £55 (Amazon price)
    HD-DVD add-on £130 (aprox) (http://www.rewiredmind.com/news/160506/ xbox360hddvddrivetocostlessthan130)
    Total
    X360 £465
    PS3 £425

    Hardly expensive when you calculate the extras needed for the X360 to give it similar hardware as the PS3.

    Its just that the PS3 "seems" more expensive cos your forking out the cash all in one lump.
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 16:18

  • BartonFink #214 6 years ago

    Virvel you are hilarious gaming machine of the future and expect PS3 to outperform the 360 by a factor of 2 when it comes to graphics quality. So they are going to completely redesign the architecture before release then. LOL you don't read very much do you. You make spot the fanboy really easy. If you want people to point out where you are being silly just re-read your own posts. Simple.

  • Mordum #215 6 years ago

    It is expensive. I used to own both the PS2 and the Xbox, but sold both to fund buying the 360. Don't think I'm going to be paying out the money to buy two consoles this generation... although if the Wii comes out alot cheaper than the other two, then maybe I might pick one of them up aswell.

    But, even before I think about the price of the PS3 itself, the other expenditure I'm looking at (as a big fan of online gaming) is the plan to leave online gaming subscription prices down to the game developers themselves. I see the total cost of this for the consumer going throught the roof... either that or you'll be limited to playing 4 or 5 online games a year?!
    With the rival online service (Xbox Live) you pay your £40 for a years subscription... and you're free to play every single game you buy/rent over Live. Does Sony honestly believe their online service is going to be better value for money?

    But, of course I'll wait to see when more information about Sony's online plans emerges.

    Out of curiosity, what do people think the typical online game subscription prices will be, what will the developers charge for this per game?

  • yorkiebar #216 6 years ago

    WoW and FF cost about £8 a month to play live - and lots of people are paying that. Is that the starting point?

    And Virvel, you are either (a) mental, or (b) on Sony's payroll or (c) on Sony's payroll and also mental. If (b) or (c) is true you may want to go back to work and tell them we ain't impressed.

    Or if (a) is true, just keep taking the tablets. Lord knows you won't be able to afford them when you start shelling out for your PS3 "future of gaming" console.

  • Virvel #217 6 years ago

    t8yman: You quote me for horseshit on the fact that the average console player in the world does not care about online-gaming???

    Ok T8yman, I will have to explain this to you:

    PS2 has one of the largest (if not the largest) number of people playing online. Still, only a few percent (3-4% if I remember correctly) go online with their console. The rest doesnt care. They dont want it, they dont even see the point of it.

    Around a 100 million PS2's have been sold, so to be moderate, about 30 to 40 thousand PS2 owners care about going online. That is a very low number. Tell me t8yman, what does this tell you?

    I will be nice to you and double that number. Lets say that in a few years time just under 10% of every console owner in the world will go online.

    It would still mean that the average gamer does not care about online-gaming, wouldnt it?

  • Virvel #218 6 years ago

    t8yman : I will give you that point about Christmas because I am not being clear enough on this. Ofcourse Christmas is important this year. But in the longer term, the outcome of this Christmas doesnt matter, because by Christmas 2007 the PS3 will have dropped significantly in price.

    Why is the end of next year important? Because I think the PS2 will start dying late next year..

    And you know what I think will happen when the PS2 starts dying? All the tens of millions of happy PS2 owners will switch console. The masses (your average Joe) will discover there is something more exciting. And I predict that the majority will choose PS3 over 360.

    But it is obvious that the 360 stands very strong this Christmas, and will probably dominate the sales charts together with PS2 and Wii.

  • t8yman #219 6 years ago

    virvel, its not just me that thinks you are mental- read the thread fella!

    I have the advantage of not being a sony fanboy, I own a ps2 and a 360, I too will probably drool when I see whatever game sony come up with thats worth buying. but the fact remains, Sony will not be making uncle bill its bitch this time round.


    And as for your comments about online gaming, I think the fact that broadband wasnt (pretty much) standard in every home when the last gen launched has got a lot to do with it, as well as sonys service being shite. I dont have firm figures, so I aint gonna make em up like you, but I'm willing to bet my underpants that 50% of 360s are online (at least)

  • Virvel #220 6 years ago

    Yorikiebar:

    I honestly think that PS3 is the gaming machine for the future. Does that make me 'mental' ?? Throw some reasoning at me instead of shit.

    And I just observe that the PS3 is technically superior to 360 in at least one area (storage of 54Gb instead of 9Gb). But I will retract my statement that it is twice as powerfull in a general sense (graphics, sounds etc), and I will wait and see.. I wont claim anything on its true powers before I play it.

  • thinktank #221 6 years ago

    How can sony fail with morons like virvel?

    "Sony will release THE gaming machine for the future"

    U utter twat



    /chuckles imagining virvel preaching to the local chav community.

  • Virvel #222 6 years ago

    t8yman, I am not making up numbers, wherever I post subjective predictions I try to state so. Wherever I am not sure I try to state so. Search the internet to check things out by all means!

    t8yman quoted for playing with his crystal balls:

    "but the fact remains, Sony will not be making uncle bill its bitch this time round."

    That is no fact t8yman and you know it. Its wishfull thinking on your part but not facts!

  • Mordum #223 6 years ago

    I'd have to agree with t8yman... I had the choice to go online with my Xbox or with my PS2. Compare both services, it does'nt take a genius to figure out why I went with Live. To say that the general public isn't interested in online gaming simply because most PS2 owners don't bother, is just ignorant. You don't think they chose not to go online because the PS2's service was unspeakably poor?

    I don't have any numbers to back it up (although probably not hard to find, I'm sure Microsoft have spoken online numbers at E3), but you can be sure a pretty sizeable amount of people who own an Xbox 360, are using Xbox Live. Which shows the 'general public' is interested. Also do you think that Sony would bother with a whole new revamped online gaming service, if they did'nt think the general public were interested?

    Not taken sides in any arguments, I just think if a console has a great online service, then people will use it.

  • Virvel #224 6 years ago

    It is irrelevant how big a portion of todays 360-owners go online. That says nothing about how much the 'general public' craves for online-gaming.

    The reason for this is that the XBox-360 userbase is still mostly early adopters, hardcore gamers, pioneers if you like. That kind of gamers are MUCH more likely to go online. The more a console sells the more it penetrates this hard-to-define 'general public' market. The more a consolel sells the more it penetrates into this group of 'light gamers', the average person in the street if you like. Look at PS2, over 95% of PS2 owners fall into this strange mass-market group. They are very simple gamers. Childlren, computer illiterates etc. You cant push online-gaming on them, they wont use it.

    The more a console penetrates into this mass-market, the less percentage of the total owners will go online. That is my conviction, and that is what you see on PS2 today.

    T8yman argues about broadband being more and more available and that this will make the mass-market go online with their consoles. I dont buy it. Broadband has really exploded the last 2 years in my country, but you dont see more PS2 online gamers because of that. Only a certain type of gamers will go online. The average guy in the street doesnt care im afraid.

    And please remember : XBox-360 has barely touched this mass-market yet.


    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 20:42

  • thinktank #225 6 years ago

    Ok the PS3 is a mass market machine....

    Is a £425 a mass market price tag?

    Is a complicated SKU system mass market?

    Is the introduction of new media format mass market?

    Is a complicated online network, requireing payment to individual devs mass market?

    Is the suprise removal of a now standard rumble feature mass market? (remember most of these won't know what E3 is and they won't visit sites like this)

    Is upgradable hardrives with linux features mass market?

    Do sony even remember who buys most of their consoles?

    Is virvel the new phil harrison?

  • Kami #226 6 years ago

    I'll hold my hands up as a GAMING fanboy, people. I like my GAMES. Irregardless of platform, genre, 2D or 3D and irrespective of how advanced or horseshit they are (This comes from a person who enjoyed titles such as "Martian Gothic: Unification" and, as much as I hate to admit it, "FFX-2"...)

    But I keep getting stuck on this comment, which I honestly believe is the clincer comment - and yes, kind of funny when you consider how often it's bandied about;

    "Guys, Sony will release THE gaming machine for the future, and you complain about the price?"

    Personally, if one company has shown and demonstrated a machine that is worthy of being called "The Future", it's Nintendo, because their machine is so wildly different and innovative that if it works (and I suspect it will do rather well), everyone will take their methods and adopt them as standard in the next-next gen. Evolution of the gaming world doesn't take at all long, from D-Pads to Analog Joysticks and unwieldly rumble backpacks (Yes, I am old enough to remember those!) to small rumble motors inside your controller, and even to the rise and fall of companies themselves - it took less than a generation for Sony to rise to power, and only two generations for SEGA to crumble. Evolution and progression of the market is very, VERY swift and if Wii WORKS, then you might even see Sony and Microsoft adapt ideas from it well before next-next gen. Sony have even started it seems. Goes some way to proving the point really...

    Do note, I said SONY and Microsoft. Sony aren't going to "lose" (Technically speaking, there is no way to "lose" in the industry unless you go bust, and let's be very honest here - that just isn't going to happen to Sony), but what they WILL suffer most with PS3, I very much hope and fear in similar measure, is a reduced market share. Competition wise, this is no bad thing though... and who knows, good competition might force the PS3 down in price very swiftly (though I'm not convinced there will be a price-drop too soon. Sony are a company and they will clearly be taking a beating of a loss on the consoles). Could prove to be a wonderful generation, of old and new styles being interwoven and doing all sorts of things we'd never thought of before.


    All things aside though, if PS3 is truly "The Machine of the Future" (Sony will be trademarking that very soon I suppose) then it starts NOW (If it didn't already start months ago). Forget the specifications, the marketing shite and any arguments - as I am doing for this next bit. I am going to look at it from as objective and blunt a view as possible.

    You have a £425 (subject to change, I'm sure) games console with a Blu-ray drive, hard drive (If I understand that correctly) and one controller (basic leads as standard). The controller this generation cannot have a rumble feature (and yes, people WILL care about that since Sony were the ones who pretty much made it mainstream!) instead using a tilt sensor. Fifteen games at launch (Again, subject to change I am sure), no confirmed pricing on games yet (Though I'd assume we'll be paying a fair whack per game, both due to BluDiscs, increased dev costs and just because it's the thing to do) but all looking decent enough.

    ... as a machine, it seems to start off on the same footing any other console has ever started from, bar the price, but systems are always pushing pricing when first released anyway (I think we were horrified by £300 for the PS2 originally).

    NOW put all the marketing shit and press-crap back on top.

    Amazing, isn't it? Even I could quite like the PS3... if it was allowed to speak for itself...
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 23:37

  • Mordum #227 6 years ago

    @Virvel

    If Sony thought that online gaming isn't important to the 'general public', then would'nt they would have just stuck with their current online service? They're certainly putting alot more thought into their new online gaming strategy, surely this is because they believe online gaming will become a bigger part of the general publics gaming habits.
    Maybe not straight away, but certainly in this generation of consoles.

    But I'm not going to speak on behalf of the 'general public', because I love online gaming... so by your logic am not a member of the general public... just kidding ;)

    Also, on the topic of the Blue-ray drive... don't you think its a huge gamble? What if HD-DVD becomes the next format of choice, or in fact none of them does. At least with Microsoft's strategy, they offer people the choice... want HD-DVD? buy the add on drive (or a stand alone player)... don't want HD-DVD, then do nothing.
    I wish Sony had gone the same route. PS3 would have been cheaper (a big factor), and they could have offered an add-on Blue-ray drive later, for the people that want it.

    All I'm saying is that choice should be the key here. Sony are giving us no choice.
    I personally am not interested in any of the new formats, HD-DVD or Blue-ray, I'm very happy with the DVD for now. I don't like Sony's strategy of forcing their new format onto the public.
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/06 @ 00:39

  • wbafc #228 6 years ago

    £425 rip-off. i wz goin to buy it, not any more, until the price drops
    Edited by 1 at 21/05/06 @ 10:13

  • Darth_Flibble #229 6 years ago

    I think it's amazing that Fanboys can see into the future. it's shame they can't see what a loser they will be in a couple of years

  • Rambaldi #230 6 years ago

    @Virvel

    "I wont claim anything on its true powers before I play it"

    Then why have you been masturbating all over this thread for so long? If you are reflective of the PS demographic, I'm glad I kept away after the PS1.

  • HunterSeeker #231 6 years ago

    Sign...

    You guys over at Europe are being way too kind to Sony.

    Look at what people are saying in NA.

  • effinwooly #232 6 years ago

    people like Viral will always buy a PLAYSTATION NO MATTER WHAT !! its a shame it really it !! shame.............

  • t8yman #233 6 years ago

    what is north america saying? any pointers as to where to have a read? IGN is a bit vast, is there a eurogamer equivalent over the pond?