PGR3 frame rate in doubt

By Ellie Gibson Published 12 July, 2005

Gone in 30 fps rather than 60?

A post by site administrator Chris Pickford over on the Bizarre Creations forums has revealed that there's no guarantee Xbox 360 title Project Gotham Racing 3 will run at 60 frames per second.

"We're still aiming for 60, but at this point we can't confirm anything because, quite simply, we haven't finished the game," Pickford wrote.

"If we said 'We're definitely going to be at 60' and them some mad glitch occurred which forced us to 30, we'd look very silly."

And that's all Bizarre is prepared to say on the topic - the thread has now been closed, and Pickford added that the studio "won't comment on threads like these in the future.

"It's obvious we want and are aiming for the highest possible," he continued. "But as we've not even finished yet we'd be pretty dumb to 'confirm' anything."

So it looks like we might not even know what frame rate PGR3 will run at till the game's release, which will tie in with the launch of the Xbox 360 later this year. But if we hear anything more before then, we'll be sure to let you know...

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (82) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Milk #1 7 years ago

    Game Dev in 'Non Hype' Shocker!!!

    He should have told us that it runs at 120fps...

  • Eraser #2 7 years ago

    I expect lots of people to react in a negative manner to this with comments like "PGR3 will be shit because it won't run at 60fps", which is an ignorant statement ofcourse.

    Let me re-emphasize that while they don't confirm running at 60 fps, they're not saying they won't be able to squeeze 60fps out of it either.

  • ssuellid #3 7 years ago

    Haven't they said the same with every game since MSR?

  • Wash #4 7 years ago

    Lol, hardly in doubt is it when its not been confirmed either way.

    cue all the "ItS T3H xsUX 1.5 snigg3r" or "The next gen cant even do 60fps, wheres the real next gen".

    Understanding that with all the power in the world you cant be certain on a frame rate. Graphics Vs Frame Rate, the more time it spends on pushing polygons regardless of the system the harder it is to tie it down to 60fps.

    Still, aslong as its a solid framerate, thats the important thing. Forza and PGR2 are 2 well reiceived games at 30fps.

  • Milk #5 7 years ago

    exactly, he is just trelling the truth. It's just that the truth sounds odd when you place it next to an interview with Dave Perry.

  • Dizzy #6 7 years ago

    >truth sounds odd when you place it next to an interview with Dave Perry.

    ROFL

    Yeah.. this is a non-news item. There is no final hardware so no final idea on the framerate. Of course they could make it "according to spec" and show us pre-rendered movies?

  • andrewwd #7 7 years ago

    "If we said 'We're definitely going to be at 60' and them some mad glitch occurred which forced us to 30, we'd look very silly."

    or how about 'If we can't get a game on next generation hardware running at 60fps we'll look very silly'

    Honestly, what is the point in making the generational leap if they can't get 60fps out of it?

    "PGR3 will be shit because it won't run at 60fps" is not an ignorant statement, it is a matter of opinion, and if your opinion is that the frame rate doesn't matter, then I suggest you need to be a little more discerning

  • Beano #8 7 years ago

    It better run in 60 FPS... 30 FPS simply is to choppy for a racing game these days :(

    (still outraged over Forza's 30FPS)

  • Floppy #9 7 years ago

    "Honestly, what is the point in making the generational leap if they can't get 60fps out of it?"

    I totally agree. If the processors are as astounding as they claim, give me fps... bucket loads of it. I don't care if you have to remove a balcony or two from the buildings, sort it out.

  • bumgut #10 7 years ago

    Well the fact they are aiming for 60fps at least gives me heart.

  • ralphwolfenstein #11 7 years ago

    '30FPS intolerance'

    It's the definitive psychosomatic illness for gaymers. If only these things weren't actually measurable, except by the human eye. Which amounts to the same thing of course...

  • Wash #12 7 years ago

    "Honestly, what is the point in making the generational leap if they can't get 60fps out of it?"

    Firstly, they do more than up the fps with this "generational leap". Surely people realise if they putting certain demands on the hardware already with physics, AI, and more importantly the graphics "generational leap" then 60fps isnt something you just turn on. I doubt they do this to piss people off.

    Maybe if the only thing evolving was the frame rate then yeah... but its a decision for the developer to make. lose the graphics or run at 30fps.

  • kangarootoo #13 7 years ago

    ""PGR3 will be shit because it won't run at 60fps" is not an ignorant statement, it is a matter of opinion"

    But its not a matter of opinion when it is presented as a statement of fact.

    And Eraser is simply pointing out that stating something as fact when there is clearly not enough info to do so might be described as ignorant (his words not mine, I think).

  • kangarootoo #14 7 years ago

    I bet Quake 1 runs at about 1200 fps on current HW. Does that mean that people are OK with its 256 colour pallette and 200 poly models? I guess so.

  • andrewwd #15 7 years ago

    ""PGR3 will be shit because it won't run at 60fps" is not an ignorant statement, it is a matter of opinion"

    But its not a matter of opinion when it is presented as a statement of fact. "

    don't get out of your depth quibbling over semantics, smart alec

  • smelly #16 7 years ago

    Laughing my socks off at people who claim they can actually tell the difference.

  • kgthatsme #17 7 years ago

    Why does this franchise have such a stupid name

  • OldWormsFan #18 7 years ago

    http://www.bizarreonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218 - LOL!!!!!!

  • Lacero #19 7 years ago

    If you're playing it in the UK surely it'll be 50fps at best anyway?

  • IMO #20 7 years ago

    Looks like we're famous (again!!) guys!!

  • tomacwhite #21 7 years ago

    smelly - LOLing at you for NOT being able to see the difference.. HAHAHAHA You have no eyes.

    60fps for UK these days, we have 60hz options on our games now. Have done since Dreamcast.

  • oceanmotion #22 7 years ago

    Thats really a bad article by Eurogamer. Should post stuff like this on the front page.

  • kangarootoo #23 7 years ago

    "don't get out of your depth quibbling over semantics, smart alec"

    Out of my depth? Heehee. Thats good.

  • TheBoyChris #24 7 years ago

    *sigh*

    Chris
    Edited by 1 at 21/02/06 @ 11:13

  • tonynibbles #25 7 years ago

    Oh yeh yeh, here they go, Microsoft dropping all the features like usual...

  • ralphwolfenstein #26 7 years ago

    Chris, on balance I think the value of the overall coverage and exposure generated by the Bizarre website updates will outweigh any blips like this - even if the story is a bit of a spongism, at least be happy that the online press' eyes are increasingly focusing on developer sites like yours, and consider PGR3 a big enough game to want to write about literally anything they can glean from it. The net effect of this regular fanboyesque coverage is to give PGR3 that 'AAA' aura. It's one of the few 360 games in dev that I think people can see as a tangible, 'almost there' piece of software because it's the one we hear about week in week out

    And as an increasingly widely used form of PR, it's one I'm watching closely :)

  • The-Bodybuilder #27 7 years ago

    why is this non news so negative?
    Upon reading the headline, I thought that maybe the developers were struggling to keep the fram rate up. But they simply can't make assumptions on frame rate when they haven't got the final dev kit (an obvious conclusion that I'm sure any developer would come to, without a final dev kit).

    Oh well.

  • captain-future #28 7 years ago

    what? 60fps not a "sure thing". hmmmm, my-oh-my what's going on with the oh-so-mighty next-gen?

    took a look at their forums and have to say EG's attempts of opinionated journalism in the weeks following E3 have disappointed me enormously.
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/05 @ 16:44

  • OldWormsFan #29 7 years ago

    Chris, how about your company doesnt say 60 FPS on one hand but then 30 FPS a hour later....?

    ;D

  • JHuxley #30 7 years ago

    "Chris, how about your company doesnt say 60 FPS on one hand but then 30 FPS a hour later....?"

    They never said 30FPS. They only said they were aiming for 60, which is no commitment.

    On the other hand, you shouldn't take this so personally Chris. It's only a sensationalist headline to grab the punters...even the most respected games magazines and websites have been guilty of that in the past.

  • valli #31 7 years ago

    Laughing my socks off at people who claim they can actually tell the difference.

    Well, you can laugh all you want. I'll take a Pepsi challenge on the 30 vs 60 fps difference any day and so does pretty much every gave developer out there.

  • Hunam85 #32 7 years ago

    Ok, may sound odd and i dont know the ins an outs of it all, but if you cant do it at 60fps? why not try 55? or 50? or 45?

  • tomacwhite #33 7 years ago

    Because you can't. It has to either (for 50hz) 50fps, 25fps, 12.5fps etc, and 60hz its 60fps, 30fps, 15fps.

  • kangarootoo #34 7 years ago

    Its a console thing. I believe it is related to the fact you connect to a TV rather than a multi refresh rate monitor (as with a PC). But I'm not a coder, so I don't know the inds and outs.

  • smelly #35 7 years ago

    "Ok, may sound odd and i dont know the ins an outs of it all, but if you cant do it at 60fps? why not try 55? or 50? or 45? "

    Because you have to wait for the tv to refresh. if yer tv is refreshing at 60fps, and you dont quite get there in time, you'll have to wait until the next 1/60th of frame comes along. Otherwise you get horrible tearing on the screen.

    For an example of this, play a pc game with the frame rate limiter turned off. Looks horrid!

    Now you could in theory sometimes run at 60fps then ocassionally miss and move down to updating every 1/30th of a second, but that'll result in choppy gameplay.

    Although I seriously think this is the emperors clothing anyhows. I swear if i put someone in front of a game running 50hz and then the same game at 60hz they wont be able to tell the difference unless they're running side by side.

  • kangarootoo #36 7 years ago

    Ah, just read your post properly tomacwhite.

    That makes sense, your game rate has to match the TV, or be divisible by the TV refresh rate, as that is fixed.

  • smelly #37 7 years ago

    hope i explained that okay? if not, i'll put a longer explanation up in laymans terms.

  • smelly #38 7 years ago

    "your game rate has to match the TV"

    it doesnt HAVE to. Just if you dont, then you'll get tearing as the tv will refresh itself as you're drawing to it.

    But it's all relative anyhow. It's only the graphics that update at that framerate, normally the ai/game logic will be updating at a different time scale anyhow.

  • Pirotic #39 7 years ago

    no 'glitch' halfs your refresh rate, they are basically saying "well, its running like shit at the moment but with optimisation we may hit 60, but probably not"

  • smelly #40 7 years ago

    "no 'glitch' halfs your refresh rate,"

    *sigh*.. look read what i just wrote. If occasionally it drops below being able to update every 1/60th of a second maybe due to a "glitch".. then rather than having choppy frame rates where it occasionally has to update every 1/30th.. It makes more sense to make it ALWAYS run at 30fps at a constant speed.

    Knowing that they're running at 30fps always will therefor mean they can then put in more gfx, etc etc anyhow.

    People WILL notice if you drop from 60 to 30 in game every so often. They wont notice if it runs at 30fps all the time (unless you tell them).

  • Xerx3s #41 7 years ago

    Eraser said it all.


    /wonders why all the sony fanboys post here (perhaps they want to play an xbx :) )

  • Kiigan #42 7 years ago

    Ordinarily I'd say punters don't give a shit about technical geekery, and that framerates don't matter a toss (just look at San Andreas on PS2 for example). However let's be honest - racing games particularly really should be running at 60fps nowadays. If you splash out 300 quid on a spanky next-gen console and the flagship racing title runs like Forza, people will be disappointed no matter how spiffy the tarmac looks as it rolls under the bonnet. That said, a smooth 30 is preferable to a choppy 60 any day of the week, and it is really only dorky fanatical gamers like us that will be bothered.

    If the game doesn't run at 60fps when it is finished, some might suggest that the game isn't "finished" at all - rather, the development team stopped working on it. As anyone who bought Boiling Point for PC will know, there is a difference :) It's nice that Bizarre aren't over-promising anything, but it'd also be nice to read "it will run at 60, even if we have to keep working on it a few months longer to get it running smoothly at that framerate". For most genres of game I don't give a shit what the framerate is as long as it is reasonably consistent, but when it comes to racing games it really matters and you really can see the difference.

    I'll be buying it regardless, so I'll shut the fuck up now.
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/05 @ 19:14

  • crashVoodoo #43 7 years ago

    right, this might seem like a totally 'tarded .. but here goes

    the resolution of a game alters the FPS doesn't it ? (at least it does on my pc)

    isn't all this 480p, 720i/p & 1080i/p bollocks in effect just upping the resolution to something a bit nicer for display on a hdtv monitor/screen that can handle it ?

    will this supposed 60/30 fps malarky be at the base res (the one the majority will use) ? if so, when the 'special ones' with the swanky teevees hanker up the display settings to something a bit spiffier, wont the fps go south anyways ?

    yes its true i don't really have an informed grasp of all things hdtv but if everything i've typed is complete arse-speak, can thou gimme the simple version and send me on my way :)


    stu
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/05 @ 19:14

  • Darren #44 7 years ago

    The first PGR game ran at 50/60fps but the second game sacrificed the framerate for detail and as a result the game looks (still) gorgeous. However, I'm rather surprised that Bizarre Creations have even cast doubts on a 50/60fps framerate because given the power of the machine with it's three cores I wouldn't have expected it to run at 25/30fps at all.

    Surely the Xbox 360 can do unbelievably good graphics AND a fast framerate? If not, that it will be seen as a failing of the machine by many hardcore gamers and further proof that the machine is indeed Xbox 1.5. I'm betting that Polyphoy Digital have no problems running Gran Turimso 5 on the PS3 at 50/60fps with impressive visuals.

    Look at the PS2: it can do Gran Turismo 4 at 50fps and in 1080i too but Forza Motorsport on the Xbox only runs at 25/30fps and is limited to 480p and that's on the supposedly superior Xbox!!! Will it be the same on Xbox 360?

    A note to Bizarre Creations: if you can cut down on unnecessary excess detail like unique cracks in the road - most people won't even notice them - and instead aim for a minimum of 50/60fps. I'm sure the game will still look awesome - gameplay and speed are far more important that fancy visuals...

    I'm wondering if they've received the beta development kit far too late to be able to optimise the gamecode to run at 50/60fps, which would be very disappointing as I'm sure the Xbox 360 is capable of it. What do others think?

  • JHuxley #45 7 years ago

    "However let's be honest - racing games really really should be running at 60fps"

    I agree wholeheartedly, but if what I've read in this thread can be believed, didn't Forza and PGR2 run at 30fps? Looks like the framerate really doesn't effect the average gamer.

  • ave #46 7 years ago

    Forza looks better to me than GT4, and smoother.

    "I'm betting that Polyphoy Digital have no problems running Gran Turimso 5 on the PS3 at 50/60fps with impressive visuals."
    Yes, by having no damage modelling, lesser physics, and no AI - just like GT4 !


    "Look at the PS2: it can do Gran Turismo 4 at 50fps and in 1080i too but Forza Motorsport on the Xbox only runs at 25/30fps and is limited to 480p and that's on the supposedly superior Xbox!!! Will it be the same on Xbox 360? "

    You should take a peek at the video's comparing Forza/GT4's race tracks.

    Then take a cup of STFU.

  • CrunchinJelly #47 7 years ago

    Everyone seems to forget that 30fps actually conveys speed much better than 60fps, so it's not all bad.

    /sticking up for BC.

  • Azu87 #48 7 years ago

    I won't say this game is crap because the possible "low" framerate but I have to say it's a bit of a disappointment (if it would be true). The only thing I really wait for the next generation, is games that run 60fps. I couldn't care less about HDTV support but a smooth and high framerate. It does surprisingly much for the games graphics. Think GTA running in 60fps = heaven (at least GTA-heaven) :)
    Edited by 1 at 12/07/05 @ 20:28

  • alcolepone #49 7 years ago

    now, iam not sure but.......

    isnt the 60 frames a sec required to get a percieved 30 frames a sec on a interlaced tv, i.e. a fresh image for every interaced image. and when a game runs at 30 frames a sec the alternate interlaced images are the same? if so does the fact that all xbox 360 games will have to run in progressive scan, mean that 30 frames a sec on HD is the same as the old 60 frames a sec?

    our am i wrong?

    oh, 30 frames a second is NEVER good. 60 frames

    oh and my g/f just got 1,750,000 on the hard setting on zoo keeper time attack

  • belziah #50 7 years ago

    yeah but can it render cheese @ 60fps. its the minimum refresh rate necessary to convey the solidity of the mould

  • Kiigan #51 7 years ago

    > Forza looks better to me than GT4, and smoother.

    Shurely shome mishtake?

  • Vin #52 7 years ago

    I dub this,

    A VERY SAD THREAD.

  • Beano #53 7 years ago

    "Laughing my socks off at people who claim they can actually tell the difference. "

    I feel sorry for people who can't see the difference - it should be very apparent for everybody. But if you are blind, I quess it doesn't matter.

  • mustardkid #54 7 years ago

    balor is strangely absent from this thread - if this non-news concerned a sony product i'm sure he'd be all over it like a cheap suit

  • The-Bodybuilder #55 7 years ago

    >"Shurely shome mishtake?"

    Nope.

    And I agree with those that say they can see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. It's quite obvious.

  • Hunam85 #56 7 years ago

    Yeah, if i recall, the human can notice redraw from under 85 or so fps, above that we dont notice...

  • IronGiant #57 7 years ago

    Yes, this is a bit of a non-story as the game isn't finished yet.. but i do expect 60fps on my next gen machine, whichever it turns out to be. I'd much rather a silky smooth 60fps and less detail.

  • TILT #58 7 years ago

    "oh and my g/f just got 1,750,000 on the hard setting on zoo keeper time attack"
    °_° Woah, that's impressive, never got anywhere near that even on normal mode... Nice bit, too, much more interesting than this discussion, even if slightly off topic.
    Oh, and someone dared people to tell the difference between 50 and 60 fps... I did notice that SSX Tricky in PAL felt more roughly than in NTSC. (Compared one after the other, quite some time ago.) I'm not sure if it is exactly what you were referring to, but I'd say, yes, I can tell the difference.

  • tpfkanep #59 7 years ago

    Well, well, well... the HD Era has almost arrived. And ppl bemoan the fact that Ninty are hesitant to commit to HD. Pragmatic Nintendo. Shame on them.

  • aabyssx #60 7 years ago

    > still outraged over Forza's 30FPS

    Same here.

  • Salvia #61 7 years ago

    The saddest thing that has happened to this site are all the posters in the comments section who clearly have an agenda to big up MS and the 360. There are fanboys and there are fanboys but this smacks of either the victims of brainwashing or perhaps at a push MS employees...

  • Salvia #62 7 years ago

    As good as the 'Eurogamer is in league with Sony' conspiracy theory.

  • chronom4n #63 7 years ago

    i never really understood the framerate issue in racing games. But when playing forza for a week or so i understood the framerate issue. I have been playing PGR2 for god knows how long and when the reflections were running so smooth, and then i saw the way the reflections were handled in forza, i had a really hard time taking it all in. i.e. they were...how can i put? they (the reflections) weren't that smooth and a little bit out of sync. I then realised how cool the framerate in PGR2 for 99% of the time ihad been handled so well.. Also, some one in the forum had pointed out a very valid issue, Next gen and they are encountering frame rate issues! all the major console manufacturers rave on about the graphics issue, but they need to look at these sort of issues. well that is what i think, hope the thought holds. guys and gals!
    Edited by 1 at 13/07/05 @ 10:30

  • Mike69_2004 #64 7 years ago

    Some people on this site can be really stupid sometimes. dont you realise Bizarre got the beta kits about a week ago. no dev team can totally understand the hardware in a week. this is the best move they could have taken. since they dont know all the secrets to the hardware they cant just jump out and say of course it will be 60 fps. to me it doesnt matter because the 30 fps racing games that i have played are better than all the 60 fps one.

    please people, think before you type crap ;)

  • teabagger #65 7 years ago

    You can pretty easily tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. My gut feeling would be to prioritise the fps, but I'm not sure how important it is, I'd have to play the same game in both modes to be certain. In the context of the article any arguments are pretty irrelavent, it's not like there's any substance there to debate.

  • The-Bodybuilder #66 7 years ago

    >"Some people on this site can be really stupid sometimes. dont you realise Bizarre got the beta kits about a week ago. no dev team can totally understand the hardware in a week. this is the best move they could have taken. since they dont know all the secrets to the hardware they cant just jump out and say of course it will be 60 fps."


    SSSSSHHHHHHHH. Don't say that.
    People like slavia will say that you're a MS fanboy.

    We are not allowed to say anything bad about EG articles and non-news.

  • Salvia #67 7 years ago

    Dickhead.

  • #68 7 years ago

    I think this is more a proclaimation that Bizarre got the kit to test their code on WAY TOO LATE in the day to ensure PG3 is a launch game for the 360 *AND* they'll be enough time to get the engine @60FPS and 720p *AND* at a graphical level of detail that is 'next gen enough' for consumers.

    I don't find Bizarre at fault at all... It's the mad rush at the end to get this out in MS's time-scale that'll injure this game.

    I think a lot of the launch games will be like this... The timescale is just too tight!

  • mustardkid #69 7 years ago

    so where is balor - has he been barred? - is he sulking?- or is he too busy playing god of war?

  • Vin #70 7 years ago

    http://www.bizarreonline .net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0

    Now let this shit argument die.

  • Kiigan #71 7 years ago

    Man that thread reads like a Michael Jackson forum during the trial...

    I don't understand why anyone would have a go at Eurogamer for reporting this. Slow news day? Sure, it's the summer. Truth is though, someone from Bizarre chose to speak about framerates in PGR3, a game a lot of people here are eagerly anticipating. So it was worth reporting. Reading the article, EG just mention the facts - almost the entire thing is just quotes, no judgement attached. The fact that the story has spread to other sites just shows the level of interest in Xbox 360 and the next Project Gotham.

    As for framerates and junk... some of you may think you can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps, but you really can. I invite you all to fire up your Xbox with Forza on Nurburgring, and your PS2 with GT4 on Nurburgring, and switch your SCART switcher back and forth between the two with the game moving. You'll see the difference. It isn't terribly unreasonable to expect next-gen racing titles to run at 60fps, when that is what the competition is doing. That said, since the beta dev kits have only recently been made available, and with the big push for the November launch, it is fair to say that we should expect some compromises in the first bunch of games.
    Edited by 1 at 13/07/05 @ 13:48

  • Nikanoru #72 7 years ago

    I swear if i put someone in front of a game running 50hz and then the same game at 60hz they wont be able to tell the difference unless they're running side by side.

    Actually yes, they will. Switch from 50 to 60 hz in a game that has the option, and you'll see how much more headache enducing 50hz is. Of course, this has more to do with monitor flickering than framerate, but still...

    Everyone seems to forget that 30fps actually conveys speed much better than 60fps, so it's not all bad.

    Hahaha what?

    Yeah, if i recall, the human can notice redraw from under 85 or so fps, above that we dont notice...

    That actually has very little to do with anything. If you quickly move your mouse around in circles on a monitor set at 85hz, you'll still see the cursor moving in small increments instead of a smooth movement. This is because it lacks motion blur. Human eyes don't make a snapshot of a single moment, they capture the duration of the entire 1/Xth of a second that they record, thus producing what you might call motion blur.

    In real life, or on TV programmes, you never see the screen "doubling up" when moving quickly from side to side. You do in computer games.
    Yes Vin, that was a comment on your thread. Your thread is full of retards.

  • lotteryman82 #73 7 years ago

    hey there (first post here)

    i think that eventually it ll be up to the developers to exploit the power of next gen consoles the thing is that i m kinda sick of compromise in games in this generation
    they always have to sacrifice sth like detail over framerate graphics over speed
    i thought we d be over with that in next gen since there is 10 times more power perhaps more as far as i care it shouldn't be that much of an issue and i d hate to see this thing repeating for another generation of gaming in any way.
    as for Gt4 vs Forza well call me a sony boy but
    i m happy to see a game of GT4 quality surpisingly being squeezed off a 1999 hardware
    and doubtful over how a gorgeous looking game as Forza would be like if it was attempted in 60fps on Xbox wondering if it ll be worth the difference
    i m not questioning hardware abilities yet i d like the comparison on a more fair level.
    aside of this example the bottomline is that comments like this from that guy are needless and just mess with our expectations of next gen time will tell
    developers talented or not have less excuses to present a technically glitched game its not at all irrational to ask for a solid 60fps or 4xFSAA or anisotopic filtering and all that shit for the new so called "supercomputers" whatever each calls its console...neither is irrational to ask a high level of quality that we should take for granted after years of research and millions of $ invested as they tell us instead of perhaps 30fps or maybes..60fps or perhaps pre-rendered maybe up to spec. perhaps later devs remember the need of returning to more gameplay and content oriented enhancements to make games but thats another clice story.

    Zen of gaming runs better at 30 fps lol :p j/k


  • teabagger #74 7 years ago

    lotteryman: Everything in game dev is a compromise, we'll always have to sacrifice one thing to achieve another and that'll be true of the next round of hardware and the next and the next. It's the nature of the beast mate, we're trying to produce games that push the hardware not games that fall comfortably withing a given platforms capabilities.

  • lotteryman82 #75 7 years ago

    i agree with you teabagger

    my point is that i could speak of compromise when they reached the limit of next gen consoles and need tweaks to get it all right and balanced but not speak of it before they are even launched its unreasoble to say they least
    besides the level of compromise is gonna be different as well.
    even when there will be a need compromise sth over sth else e.g graphically things will still look exceptional compared to trickful textures or anything else we are used to from current generation titles so some enhancements should be considered granded.
    the nature of the beast may oblige all to compromise at a time but definatelly it aint gonna make me drop expectations this early...and thats the feeling i got reading that comment. my money is spend and some of my time is wasted on games i d like it to be in the best possible way.

    as for Gran turismo
    gt4 on PS2 is making the poor machine ache when running thats achivement and i m afraid that not everyone tried as hard as PD so i think thats compromise.
    to avoid misunderstandings ofcourse PD sacrificied things to make GT4 like this
    its not flawless at all
    but i m not convinced other devs push hardware as much as pd


  • Poustara #76 7 years ago

    I think lotteryman82 is right!
    Yeah i do!

  • Poustara #77 7 years ago

    Yeah lotteryman82 good work!
    Keap going!

  • Poustara #78 7 years ago

    lotteryman82 i am hunting you!
    If i catch you i kill you!
    I split your brains on all over the world!
    But what am i saying, you dont have brains!

  • lotteryman82 #79 7 years ago

    always nice knowing i have fans (thanks for the support Jim) lol

  • debug_kit_2600 #80 7 years ago

    Let’s just wait and see shall we...

    At the end of the day go into GAME or HMV, take a look at PGR3 running on a demo pod and make your mind up then.

    As for throwing the towel in, who else models REAL cities to the level that Bizarre do with the amount of routes, cars, details, effects and game features?
    GT4 was over three years in the making, had a team of over 100 car artists alone, was made on hardware they new inside and out and had the full backing of SONY and yet they still couldn't ship with online play or decent AI. (Not to mention it was delayed by over a year).

  • Poustara #81 7 years ago

    lotteryman82 i am coming to your lotteryplace!
    I will make liba there!
    Beware !!!

  • .:PSP:. #82 7 years ago

    should be 4555fps