New iMacs can do DX10 News

New Mac keyboards are ubersexy.

I'd like to see one of those stand up to a year of power-typing.

Diminished to just another pc brand then.

I reckon Apple would actually make more money if they phased out their OS and just ran windows on their machines.

Xerx3s, it's not like they're already preloaded with Vista.

wow, sexy. All I need is to win some money and the 24 inch 2.8GHz beauty would be mine!

Alas, life is rubbish :(

"I reckon Apple would actually make more money if they phased out their OS and just ran windows on their machines."

Please no, OSX is the best thing about owning a Mac!

@RexRunti: maybe. competition is good, though. At least there's someplace to go when you get bored of Windows.

Edit: talked to wrong person.

Yeah, why the hell would you want to run Vista on a Mac??? OSX rules

Mac. *sniffs*

Both the ATI RADEON HD 2400 XT and 2600 PRO graphics card have terrible performance with DirectX 10 games according to CustomPC magazine who benchmarked the cards; they aren't much good for DirectX 9 gaming either. Unless you play the games at low resolutions and minimum detail settings, you'll get unplayable framerates. At least you do on a PC. I'd conclude that neither of those cards will be much use for games like Crysis unless you play them in a 400x300 window! ;)

It's not DirectX10 it's capable of. It's Shader Level 4.

"Yeah, why the hell would you want to run Vista on a Mac??? OSX rules"

Well patently some people do - otherwise there would be zero point in Boot Camp ;)

"I reckon Apple would actually make more money if they phased out their OS and just ran windows on their machines."

I've just been a bit sick in my mouth :(

"Well patently some people do - otherwise there would be zero point in Boot Camp ;)"

Mainly to lure Windows people in. Once you experience OS X, there's no going back.... ;)

Was waiting a long time for this revision, can finally place my order. :)

"Mainly to lure Windows people in. Once you experience OS X, there's no going back...."

QFT

You won't be able to take advantage of DX10 functions, because DX10 games run like crap on these cards.

It's business as usual then. Mac's are still mostly useless for gaming.

Even the £400 Nvidia 8800 Ultra cannot play DirectX 10 games at good resolutions, so it is not only the macs that will struggle.

There will come a time when Macs will do games, too. Unfortunately, all of Apple's talent is currently busy trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear that is the iPhone (network apps! limited connectivity! no applications or games! no custom ringtones!), and no doubt they will term this as the second coming of the personal computer.

When will we admit that if MS software is less than spectacular, every Apple product is broken or limited in some fundamental way?

Xerx3s, it's not like they're already preloaded with Vista.

Indeed. It comes with the only thing that's worse.

When will we admit that if MS software is less than spectacular, every Apple product is broken or limited in some fundamental way?

MS is less than spectacular, don't think anyone disputes that. But 2k is imo the best os ever made. No fancy ladida environment but it does what you want it to do.

Indeed. It comes with the only thing that's worse.

Ah, now that's just rubbish.

"No fancy ladida environment but it does what you want it to do."

Sounds like you need to give Ubuntu a try... ;)

I've had macs for 14 years - in truth gaming on them is very niche. The shop I worked at barely sold any mac games due to piracy. Low sales = uninterested publishers.

The advent of Cider, allowing PC games to run on OS X with a small degree of code porting might change that but Apple continue to show little interest in gaming on macs. This is a trend I can't see changing.

Xerx3s, your blatant ignorant baiting is what inflames the mac vs PC trollwars. As I use XP at work and Mac at home and have no issues with either I find it quite amusing.

any movement towards Mac supporting more games is nothing more than a win win for Mac users. Pc fan boys can diminish this announcement all you want while us Mac users sit back. smug.

"You won't be able to take advantage of DX10 functions, because DX10 games run like crap on these cards."

That's what I was going to ask, can those machines even run Crysis decently? Assuming they had a good GFX card, would they be able to? The specs don't look that great from where I'm sitting (PC user perspective).

The spec is good, true the GPU could be better.

TBH we still do not know if Crysis will run on top-end PC's at the mo.

That's what I was going to ask, can those machines even run Crysis decently? Assuming they had a good GFX card, would they be able to?

In DX9 mode, probably. It's all guesswork right now, but if it's anything like Far Cry you'll get reasonable performance out of a wide range of current systems but won't see the full potential until faster DX10 parts are released and other components catch up, so maybe a year or so down the line.

Fight fight fight

/rolls eyes and leaves

There will no doubt be an OpenGL revision along shortly to take advantage of hardware features present in these cards that will make it equivalent in power and functionality to dx10. There is no reason gaming couldn't be equally good on a Mac. They're just not pushing it. OSX would work great, the hardware is a little anaemic but it's just a matter of design tradeoffs - but no real reason other than little perceived gain I would imagine. I personally hope they do encourage it, just don't see it happening quickly.

I actually reviewed Tomb Raider Anniversary on my Mac running Bootcamp...with a wireless 360 pad as the controller.

I'm not sure how many laws of gaming physics I broke, but it all worked brilliantly.

>I reckon Apple would actually make more money if they phased out their OS and >just ran windows on their machines.

Erm yet another windoze user that completely misses the point. Apple Macs are Mac OS and visa versa. We use Macs because they don't f*ck up as much as a windows machine and you don't need 20 power zapping security apps running all the time. The best windows Pc I've ever had is my Mac Pro using boot camp. Why? Cos the hardware is standard and top quality. Two monster machines for the price of one - check out the spec of the Mac pro at Apples site.... Lovely. Boot camp for games Mac os for everything else ;-)

you don't need 20 power zapping security apps running all the time.

Let's not be silly, hmm? Antivirus and either Windows firewall or a router with firewall is all you need.

check out the spec of the Mac pro at Apples site

That's not going to help your case. Prices for the Mac Pro start at £1699, which includes a pathetic 1Gb RAM and 7300GT graphics card. You could buy one heck of a PC for that.

Mac's are nice systems depending on your requirements. Gaming on Boot Camp is a handy extra feature, but it's not a replacement for a proper gaming PC.

@Raya: Two monster machines for the price of one? Er, no. I can dual-boot my PC with Linux (I think) but I won't call that as being two machines.

As for Windoze (nice name, that) users having to run 20 background apps to keep the system healthy, well thats the price for openness and ubiquity. Anything you can customize, you will ultimately screw up. Also, there have been security threats to Macs, too, recently.

That phasing out idea is ridiculous, but remotely plausible. After all, Apple is now more famous for iPods and iPhone. iPhone runs a version of the Mac OS, but you can do zilch with it - it is locked. So Apple as a company are no longer OS-centric, but hardware-centric.

What I don't get is that Apple users spend all their waking time dissing Windows. Yet when their machines have become Windows-enabled, they are touting it as another triumph.

@PearOfAnguish
"Mac's are nice systems depending on your requirements. Gaming on Boot Camp is a handy extra feature, but it's not a replacement for a proper gaming PC."

Absolutely right - if you want a meaty games machine, don't buy a mac. If you absolutely *must* build your own machine, don't buy a mac. If you have less than £300 to spend, don't buy a mac. If you need an ultra-thin laptop, well you know. In other words, the niche market.

For everyone else, macs are basically the best all-round machines out there. OS X is a pleasure compared to every other OS I've used (win 9x, NT, 2K, XP, Vista; Linux). The hardware is basically top-notch, and is great value in terms of build quality.

>That phasing out idea is ridiculous, but remotely plausible. After all, Apple

yes rumours abound but just take a look at the Mac Os leopard preview on Apple's site and that really says everything. Don't forget it's Mac OS that powers the Iphone too.

Being able to run 2 operating sytems natively (you can run others that work off intel hardware) is a bonus. Of course mac users like it. If you could run Mac Os on your setup then you probably would too. At the moment I'm tied to windows as I have to wait for some Adobe apps to be updated to work on Intel Macs. When that happens I'll be erasing my boot camp setup and stick with Leopard and the mac os games though I have consoles for gaming anyway :-)

@Raya: What Adobe Products are you waiting for Intel Updates? I can't think of one, that isn't universal.

@Raya: Yes, true - iPhone is powered by MacOS. But to what effect? Just read any review and you will find that for its feature set, it could have done entirely without an OS.

No one is saying they have given up on the MacOS front and that being able to run two OS's is not a bonus. It most certainly is - it is just that for mainstream (non-Apple) users that is no big deal - it's been around for years. Suddenly Apple gives their version of it a clever label and it's brouhaha all around.

i'm in two minds of getting new iMac or waiting for Leapord then getting iMac..
i'm in no hurry, though currently using an ageing PC tower i built.

To be honest everything that Mac OS does better than Windows, Linux does better than both. The old reason to get a mac was for DTP and graphics but (windows) PCs are better for that now (InDesign and PhotoShop run better on PCs and if you want to do 3D PC is your only real option). The only reason to buy a Mac is because they're prettier and considered cool by people with beards and ponytails.

If Apple did do a model which only had Windows on it you can garauntee it would out sell it's OSX equivelent. Sad but true.

Oh just rembered this

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.p...

Fo' reals RexRunti?

http://duggmirror.com/apple/Windows_VS_M...

Edit: Another interesting article - http://www.it-enquirer.com/main/ite/more...

Agree about the 3D thing though. TBH the kit you need to do proper 3D is not really consumer stuff anyway. A high spec Dell would be ok, but for real pro-level stuff you'd be looking at something a wee bit more expensive than that ...

http://www.pixelution.co.uk/Products/PC/...

It's amusing how quickly comments threads on anything to do with Macs in an environment where Mac and PC users meet degenerate into trolling and orthogonal ranting.

For the record, the new MacBook Pro released in June can also 'do' DirectX 10, as it has GeForce 8600M GT graphics. I've used this with Bootcamp and testify that it's a pretty darned quick machine for WoW purposes. Very slick indeed.

@sniglet - That article doesn't really get to the heart of the issue to be honest but you can see where the Mac falls down in the tests. yes the mac runs about twice the speed for the first benchmark test but the second (identical) benchmark the mac is a lot slower (where as windows has sped up slightly) though still faster than the PC. If you were to keep repeating this benchmark over and over the mac would slow to a crawl where as the PC will keep chugging away at roughly the same speed and as when you using PhotoShop you're generally doing lots and lots of operations. Also PhotoShop is rarely the only thing open as you'll often have InDesign/Dreamweaver/Flash/Illustrator/Maya/3D Studio Max or some other resource hungry program running at the same time which throws up more issues which tend to favour the PC version.

(Admitedly my experiences are limited to CS1 and 2, CS3 may have been tweaked.)

"For the record, the new MacBook Pro released in June can also 'do' DirectX 10, as it has GeForce 8600M GT graphics. I've used this with Bootcamp and testify that it's a pretty darned quick machine for WoW purposes. Very slick indeed. "

kapowaz, any machine with a couple of sticks of RAM can run WoW, so that's really saying nothing about graphics capabilities, and even less about DX10. Also, remember the GeForce 8600M model is not by a far shot the fastest in nVidia's 8K series. On a laptop, Mac or otherwise, I'd be amazed at seeing Gears of War or anything DX10 related above 20fps, let alone hitting 30fps on even moderate settings, later this year..

"Yeah, why the hell would you want to run Vista on a Mac??? OSX rules"

Do you even know which website you're on?

RE macs and 3D - I take it no Max means macs are poor 3d machines? Lightwave or Maya, 16 gigs of ram and 8 3gz 64 bit Xeons sound poor for rendering?

@ RexRunti

I'm a graphic designer by trade and use the Adobe CS3 suite for 8 hours + a day, so I do have an idea what it's like using these apps in a working environment.

Since CS3 was released, I see a good deal of difference running both sets of apps (XP for work and OSX for freelance - both legal copies too!) on my Macbook Pro environment. The XP version are certainly a bit slower on operations like blur and resize, with more stability issues when using large files. CS2 was a different kettle of fish though as you say. It was a rubbish release on both platforms - didn't fuss the company to upgrade me.

I can comfortably work with InDesign, Illus and Photoshop open and have no real issues on both platforms. To say that OSX has issues while XP doesn't with this is false on the latest version of these design apps.

Who really cares about directX 10?

Besides it being nice marketing for having to upgrade to Vista and the latest cards? Performance seems lower, and that the latest ID engine doesn't even utilize it is a good signal that people who know graphics think it is insignificant.

So far what I read about directX10 is that internally, it is a good cleanup of the previous code. Good for Microsoft and programmers, but no big deal for end users.

I have no experience of Mac OS in the last 5 or so years and have never used linux, but every time I see one of these "OS X is bestest!" "Noes, Vista is bett0rer!" "SFTU Linux rulez!" threads I struggle to understand. If your OS of choice runs the apps it needs to run, it works; otherwise, it is flawed. It's not that I like windows, it's a right pain, but it runs things, like games, that macs don't, and the million different forms of linux are such a confusing mess I can't possibly see how adopting one would benefit anyone who'd not already 'grown up with it', as it were. Presently, windows is the only sensible choice for most people who want to play games on a PC without lots of messing about.

I shudder to think what half you mac people did to your windows machines before you went over to macs; if you care for your windows machine properly, it'll not fuck up. Mine doesn't; none of mine ever have. Most of my friends PCs only fuck up when their hardware is knackered, then they buy a new bit and everything is OK. Plus, my antivirus is the only security on the PC (other than the router's firewall) and it's currently using about 40mb of memory; I have 1gb of it so that's really a drop in the ocean. Never had a serious security problem.

There's no reason why macs shouldn't have the capacity to run games. More games for them means more money in the industry and so more games for everyone.

Erm, Not everybody switches from Windows to Macs you know. Apple is pre PC. I started as a Mac user and switched to windows after nearly 10 years on windows I switched back to Apple because I can have both.

Working in Mac OS feels like you're sitting in a comfy leather swivel chair - on windows it feels like your on a wooden stool. Joking apart I don't mind windows at all, it served me well but it does break down an awful lot and I do have to spend too much time messing with security features. You do too, you're just so used to it that you think it's part of everyday computing. 'xxxx' is requesting permision to the internet. Yes/no. What the hell is 'xxxx'! None of that on Mac os. Firewalls there but
everthing is shutdown and your machine appears invisibe to others. You open what you need which to most people is nothing!

It may take only 40mb of resources but your virus checker is working in the back ground. Try uninstalling it for a while - when I uninstalled Macafee my pc booted in a fraction of the time. Whilst AVG is scanning (everyt time you boot) it churning away at your hard disc(s) that's a big hit in system performance. Every time you check outlook for email your antivirus kicks in, open a file, start a game, put a cd in etc.. Then it's your spyware filters turn...

It's total bliss not to have any of that crap running all the time.

I have a 15 year old Mac that works perfectly - most of my pc's need a refit of some part or another every year or so.