Natal will require 4 metres of space

By Ellie Gibson Published 23 March, 2010

Is your living room big enough?

Microsoft has revealed exactly how much space you'll need to clear in order to play Project Natal games.

That's according to Techflash, which says the disclosure was made during a press event led by chief research and strategy officer Craig Mundie.

"To be precise, you'll want to clear an area extending at least 4 meters (a little more than 13 feet) away from the television. That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors," Techflash reports.

"In terms of width and height, the field of vision naturally expands as it moves from the Natal device to that back edge, ending up a little more than 4 meters wide and 2.7 meters high (about 8 feet, 10 inches)."

As Kotaku points out, the news has led some reporters to question whether there will be enough space to accommodate Natal in Japanese homes. Is your lounge big enough?

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (195) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Yossarian #1 2 years ago

    Let's not kid ourselves, Japan wasn't going to buy this anyway.

  • KayJay #2 2 years ago

    Oops...

  • Byzanite #3 2 years ago

    I dont know anyone with 4 metres of space in their living room lol

  • ZuluHero #4 2 years ago

    oh dang, only 3.9 I guess i fall short.

    Oh well - no natal for me! :)

  • f00b_inc #5 2 years ago

    Nope

  • Doctor_What #6 2 years ago

    Nope, I could probably do about 2.5m and I've got quite a nice place.

    I really hoped Natal would be good, but this requirement is just bloody daft, and it adds on to a lot of further issues I know about with the device. Hmm... Maybe Natal 2 will be better?

    EDIT: I somehow doubt MS are too bothered about the size of Japanese rooms - it's not like it's their major market, is it? I get the impression American homes are bigger than UK ones. That's where most 360s are so I guess this sort-of makes sense.
    Edited by Doctor_What at 23/03/10 @ 08:31

  • Zomoniac #7 2 years ago

    If my living room was 4 metres long I'd need an 80" TV to be able to see it from the sofa.

  • Lotos8ter #8 2 years ago

    Turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so...

    I haven't got 4 metres either. Oh well.

  • the_dudefather #9 2 years ago

    If I count the ceiling too then yeah

  • Zomoniac #10 2 years ago

    To be precise, you'll want to clear an area extending at least 4 meters (a little more than 13 feet) away from the television. That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors

    Hang on, if that's the back edge of the space it recognises, why do you need a space of "at least" 4 metres? Surely it should be "up to" 4 metres?

  • wizlon #11 2 years ago

    Nope, not got it, and I thought my flat was pretty big too.

  • Kratos1986 #12 2 years ago

    Notice how it says AT LEAST 4 meters.. American homes are supposed to be bigger but in the European and Japanese markets where Microsoft need to do well this is going to be a disaster

  • 52pickup #13 2 years ago

    No 4 meters here either.

  • Ryboy #14 2 years ago

    "Is your living room big enough?"

    No.

  • MuTaunt #15 2 years ago

    2m at best here, guess no Natal for me.

  • Malek86 #16 2 years ago

    Forget it. I can't even get to 3 meters without removing the sofa.

  • adcworks #17 2 years ago

    That's most of London out then. I have about 1.5 meters spare!

  • ps3owner #18 2 years ago

    most americans have their own planet orbiting around them, so they need a bigger living room to be able to move around properly. I reckon Natal needs that space to detect them.

  • DonnieDarko333 #19 2 years ago

    No i haven't got 4 metres of space...gonna have to work something out here...

    I'm getting worried about 'move' as well...cause the eye camera doesn't zoom in and out i don't think..so i doubt i have enough space there!

  • Kerome #20 2 years ago

    Way to go miscommunicating PR people... 4m is the MAXIMUM range of the device, it should work perfectly well within a meter or two. Or at least it did during the demo's and vids I've seen.

    I'm sure MS know that lots of people don't have 4m of space in their living room (and if you think English living rooms are small, you should have a look at Japanese ones).
    Edited by Kerome at 23/03/10 @ 08:55

  • MeBrains #21 2 years ago

    nyet as well. and I live quite comfortably.

  • Whatsfor #22 2 years ago

    My living room is 17 feet squared but I have got a pretty big three piece suite to consider as well as a coffee table and baby stuff...

  • MaoZedong #23 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:40:08 17-12-2011

  • GiarcYekrub #24 2 years ago

    3m if I move the sofa and I ain't doing that

  • jag10 #25 2 years ago

    they'll probably cut that in half with natal 2 xp home edition LMAO!

  • etherfiend #26 2 years ago

    @Zomoniac - Glad I wasn't the only one to noitice that. They must mean 'up to 4m' as in all the demos so far they have been way closer than 4m.

  • reality_cheque #27 2 years ago

    Blimey, am I the only person who does have 4m of space in their front room? (although admittedly it would require rearranging the room slightly)

  • Deckard1 #28 2 years ago

    if this is true ms has really fucked this up. 4 metres is a pretty big room.

  • aliki #29 2 years ago

    2m on mine, so no Natal for me.

  • shadow1979 #30 2 years ago

    Sounds like that Project Milo Natal demonstration was a load of bullshit then since that woman was standing right up against the tv set. I'm guessing this means that the "demo" was actually a video? LAME!!
    Edited by shadow1979 at 23/03/10 @ 08:55

  • Der_tolle_Emil #31 2 years ago

    Up to 4 meters would be ok, at least 4 meters is impossible - I'm too lazy to rearrange my furniture just to play some Natal games; Unless I can sit on the couch, then the 4 meters would be ok.

  • Moonprince #32 2 years ago

    People will get second jobs to buy bigger houses for natal though right???!

    Or something like that...

  • fiery_jackass #33 2 years ago

    so, that's another thing that motion sensing has in common with my penis (the other being a lack of interest in it as I get older).
    Edited by fiery_jackass at 23/03/10 @ 09:02

  • muscleblade #34 2 years ago

    I have around 20 so im fine. I ususally sit 4-5 metres away from my TV when lying on the couch.

  • IMO #35 2 years ago

    I've seen plenty of Japanese houses that can use it.

    like mine

  • IMO #36 2 years ago

    "I have around 20 so im fine. I ususally sit 4-5 metres away from my TV when lying on the couch. "

    20 metres?! Is it a pain in the arse calling your butler every time you want the channel changed?

  • septimus #37 2 years ago

    Not going to work in my lounge then. Ah well.

    Not going to rearrange the entire place for it.

    Come to think about it, I'm just going to wait for the update saying the MS PR person fucked up.
    Edited by septimus at 23/03/10 @ 09:11

  • canIdoyabombsforya #38 2 years ago

    This wont be a failure over size constraints, because not not all European homes are small. There's quite a lot of self build on mainland Europe with proper sized rooms. Not the boxes found in Britain's housing estate culture where homes are crammed in for profit.

  • Greebo #39 2 years ago


    4M?

    It'll be a return to childhood, jumping up and down on the sofa! Sold! ;-)

  • Negotiator #40 2 years ago

    EG Natal has a range of 4 metres, not at least 4 metres away, that would just be silly.

  • Beano #41 2 years ago

    I played Eyetoy games 7 years ago with only 2-2½ meters of space - why do Natal need 4 meters?
    Maybe 4 meters is for full body tracking, but what about the promised detailed finger and hand tracking for conventional games?

  • bushwod #42 2 years ago

    So 4 meters is the maximum range, but surly it will work in smaller spaces? Can't believe MS wouldn't take into account that a lot of people don't have this much space. Seems more like a poorly worded quote to me.
    Edited by bushwod at 23/03/10 @ 09:22

  • 3william56 #43 2 years ago

    Just to correct one thing - the demos were *not* give in spaces less than 4m. The players were closer than 4m, as you'd expect, but every actual room it's ever been demonstrated in has been huge.

    So although you won't have to *stand* 4m from the Natal camera, if having a back wall or other objects behind you closer than 4m will bork the sensor, it's going to be a real, real problem for anyone who doesn't live in Bill Gates' continent sized ranch house.

    I'm guessing that (apart from if you have disco lights or mirrors on your back wall) the PS dildo won't have this issue, and obviously the Wii can be played in a shoe box.

  • Gearskin #44 2 years ago

    Nope. Not without moving the furniture.

  • StooMonster #45 2 years ago

    canIdoyabombsforya: +1

    Also, older houses in UK should be fine, e.g. my Victorian house has basic room sizes of 7m by 5m; plenty of friends live in barn conversion too, and they have lots of space; even a friend's 400-year old cottage has living room space enough for Natal.

  • S.J.Rogers #46 2 years ago

    "I have around 20 so im fine. I ususally sit 4-5 metres away from my TV when lying on the couch. "

    "20 metres?! Is it a pain in the arse calling your butler every time you want the channel changed? "

    His Remote has a remote... ;-)

  • masterson #47 2 years ago

    *Sigh*

    Of course it will work in smaller rooms - people are so eager to jump on the outrage express.

    Misleading wording in the article or a joke? Hard to say...

  • Banjax #48 2 years ago

    Yes, it's big enough (just) but I really don't want to be moving around that much to play a game. Ever.

  • DrR0b3rts #49 2 years ago

    Will it see me through the window if I wave my arms around in the street?

  • Steroyd #50 2 years ago

    How can EG be misleading when the "at least" part, is a direct quote?

    Wether this is a mess up on the techflash website can be up for debate, but one way or another MS are going to release requirements to get the optimum results from Natal's motion sensor.

  • Physically_Insane #51 2 years ago

    Aw, I wanted to play in my bedroom. Ugh, I guess I'll have to pass on NATAL then.

  • kangarootoo #52 2 years ago

    @DonnieDarko333

    "cause the eye camera doesn't zoom in and out i don't think"

    Yeah it does. You will be fine with about 2m, maybe less at a push.

  • Darren #53 2 years ago

    I wasn't all that interested anyway but now I know I won't be bothering with Natal for sure as I have my Xbox 360 in a gaming room upstairs along with all my other consoles and PC to save on clutter in the living room. I definitely do not have 2 metres never mind 4.

  • LetsGo #54 2 years ago

    You really have to LOL.

    Thinking about it, Milo aside, every natal vid I've seen has been in a massive room.

    I bet jonothan ross has enough space....

  • Lusterpurge #55 2 years ago

    I'm thinking what they mean by that is any object within 4 meters may distract the cameras (if they emit or reflect infrared) but you may play closer to the TV than that. I know they say that it won't detect other objects in range, but sensors tend to screw up at the worst possible times.

  • kangarootoo #56 2 years ago

    @StooMonster

    I don't know what part of the UK you live in, but I'm guessing its not in a city (or you are rich). Even a nice apartment or terraced house won't have that kind of room. I have in the past lived in 4 bed detached houses, and only one of them had 4m space in the living room (unless you stood in the corner near the door or something).

    My current place has nowhere near 4m.


    Anyway, something nobody seems to be considering. This recommendation is for journalists testing out the existing kit to give the best results. This isn't the final recommendation for people in their own homes. Nobody is looking at final hardware yet right? So these numbers aren't likely to be final either.

  • MrWonderstuff #57 2 years ago

    Hmm...Natal is starting to sound worryingly crap.

  • Benyboyuk #58 2 years ago

    4m? Well if I get rid of my TV, and my 360 then I may just have enough.......oh hold on!

  • Gurgeh #59 2 years ago

    FUD for the win, well done EG.

    Anything up to 4 metres will be detected, so anything up to 4 metres may "interfere". As walls don't move, your wall isn't likely to upset Natal.

  • FogHeart #60 2 years ago

    I really really want this innovative piece of tech to succeed, I mean ffs mocap on a shoestring, but we just keep hearing about gotchas and compromises. IF MS marketing don't raise their game it'll start looking like a Virtual Boy white elephant before we get to E3.

    ^^What about anything in front of the wall? Would Natal decide that my lower torso looks strangely like a 2m-wide couch???
    Edited by FogHeart at 23/03/10 @ 09:52

  • ZuluHero #61 2 years ago

    StooMonster

    "...even a friend's 400-year old cottage has living room space enough for Natal."

    Except when they have to jump and they hit their heads on the low ceilings? ;)

  • roz123 #62 2 years ago

    You can always position your tv next to your back door and prance around outside

  • Jazzy_Geoff #63 2 years ago

    My Dad's house has nine bedrooms and a gatehouse. He doesn't have four meters in his living room. Why would you have a living room that big anyway?

  • FogHeart #64 2 years ago

    @roz123: We'll all be doing that come the World Cup anyway.
    Edited by FogHeart at 23/03/10 @ 09:58

  • ChronoMizaki #65 2 years ago

    The problem isn't restricted to just Japan. It's restricted to probably any home that isn't America. You have to move furniture and have a lot of free space to make it work. It's pure idiocy and I'm not moving around anything just to make Natal work.

    It'll sell well in America, but in the rest of the world, it remains to be decided.

  • hiddenranbir #66 2 years ago

    http://spaghettovolante.files.wordpress....

  • schnide #67 2 years ago

    With the increasingly negative news stories coming out about Natal, it's a good thing the entire fucking media world didn't swallow all Microsoft's PR and highlight Natal as the most revolutionary piece of kit to come out this year.

    OH

    WAIT

    !

  • Ignatius_Cheese #68 2 years ago

    Nice job on reporting, EG. Tabloid journalism at its best.

    Now try reporting it properly... 4 metres maximum registerable space, NOT minimum.

    *sigh*

  • funkateer #69 2 years ago

    "Let's not kid ourselves, Japan wasn't going to buy this anyway. "

    Don't say that too soon.
    I think Natal would be a perfect fit for japanese arcades. DDR-Natal anyone?
    Edited by funkateer at 23/03/10 @ 10:09

  • Essien #70 2 years ago

    This can't possibly be right, must be UP TO 4 metres?
    Surely only a company that had a history of designing really poor software would do this....
    .... Oh right.

  • Jazzy_Geoff #71 2 years ago

    The article and the linked article clearly state that you will require "at least" four meters of space. Why would they even bother talking about a maximum?

  • KayJay #72 2 years ago

    Read the f'ing links & Article Cheese.

    [link url=http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/03/notes_on_project_natal.html
    ]http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/03...[/link]

    EG are reporting on a report. They didnt say anything.

  • KayJay #73 2 years ago

    from the report...
    "To be precise, you'll want to clear an area extending at least 4 meters (a little more than 13 feet) away from the television. That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors. In terms of width and height, the field of vision naturally expands as it moves from the Natal device to that back edge, ending up a little more than 4 meters wide and 2.7 meters high (about 8 feet, 10 inches)."

  • Toothball #74 2 years ago

    I don't even have a living room, never mind four metres of space in it. Currently I have to re-arrange my bedroom whenever friends come over to play Rock Band. We did have a go at some Xbox camera games once, and despite the camera functionality being a bit rubbish there was enough space for a couple of us to get on screen at the same time. It'll probably be fine.

  • altitude2k #75 2 years ago

    If this causes you a problem, then you're just poor!

    Oooooh yeah, bring on the negatives!

  • Retroid #76 2 years ago

    That's a lot of space.

    Which I don't have.

  • sfp_noodle #77 2 years ago

    MS aren't really selling this to the consumer very well are they. first the rubbish gdc demo, then announcing natal 2 before the original has launched, and now 4 metres of space? i game in my bedroom where there around 2 metres at most between my tv and my bed which i use to game on. this is already a sale lost for MS

  • altitude2k #78 2 years ago

    Seems to me they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. If Natal wasn't able to utilise large spaces, then there'd be people jumping up and down about that too.

    Surely not all games will require 4m of space, anyway. Not the ones I'm interested in, anyway.

  • woodnotes #79 2 years ago

    Completely misinformed article.

    Natal's depth range can EXTEND to 4 metres, it doesn't REQUIRE 4 metres.

  • sfp_noodle #80 2 years ago

    @altitude2k

    its not a matter of how many games will need 4 metres of space, its the fact tht theyll be limiting sales of certain software simply becoz most homes dont hav the room to enjoy them. noone wud buy a console tht only lets them experience half the games and natal is no diferrent. MS just keep shooting themselves in the foot. they shud be worried becoz every news story about the playstation move is positive yet everything natal related comes across as worrying. when u have peter moleneux saying the PS move is more precise then u know somethings seriously wrong

  • StooMonster #81 2 years ago

    kangarootoo: nope, not in a city. Clues include references to cottages and barn conversions ;)

  • Vordred #82 2 years ago

    well i do have that space in my living room, but thats not where my xbox is. i have a sperate room up stairs that is home to all my gear and there is not 4m worth of space, unless i cleared everything out.

    but surely they must mean that you can be up to 4m away, rather than you must be 4m away.

  • Zomoniac #83 2 years ago

    I don't know what part of the UK you live in, but I'm guessing its not in a city (or you are rich). Even a nice apartment or terraced house won't have that kind of room. I have in the past lived in 4 bed detached houses, and only one of them had 4m space in the living room (unless you stood in the corner near the door or something).

    This. I'm a long way from rich, but I have a nice, big 4-bed detached house in the north, which costs less than renting someone's bathtub to sleep in in London. Yet even in a big house, my living room is probably somewhere in the region of 3m x 3.5m. However the critical number is the measurement between the front of my TV stand (where the camera would go) and the front of the sofa, being the furthest back I could stand up, which is probably no more than 2m. To be able to comfortably stand 4m back from the TV in a room with a sofa against the back wall you'd need a room around 5.5-6m long (or 20ft for old people). The only person I know with a living room that big is my dad and that's only because he knocked down the joining wall into the dining room and made it into one big room.

  • tancredo #84 2 years ago

    I think it is clear the intent of the article: the 4m mentioned mean the "maximum" range for Natal to pick up movement.

    Personally I worry more about this: "In terms of width and height, the field of vision naturally expands as it moves from the Natal device to that back edge, ending up a little more than 4 meters wide and 2.7 meters high (about 8 feet, 10 inches)."

    If at 4 m, Natal reaches up to 2.7 m, in a short living room of 2-2.5 m, we could have a problem picking up movement if the player is standing up. I am sure the focus of Natal will be adjustable, but still, I do not want to play some family game while on my knees.

    Although to be honest, MS seems to have thought about it already. From the same original article there are a couple of things that make my spirits rise:
    "...
    - Mattrick said the response from consumers testing Project Natal had been "off the charts."
    - The machine-learning system can also tell where parts of your body should be even if they aren't visible to the camera (Extremity occlusion resilient)
    - Natal requires less in the way of processing than the average smartphone - they wanted to leave as much processing as possible available to the game itself.
    ........"

    Guess I will have to wait until release time to pass judgement. But we are having so much fun making incorrect guesses.
    Oh, the joy!

  • StooMonster #85 2 years ago

    What is evident is that we are a very crowded island here in the UK, and if Microsoft have designed Natal for a "global" audience it might be a bit more challenging to use here than in other countries.

  • Progguitarist #86 2 years ago

    Natlol

  • retr0gamer #87 2 years ago

    My TV is positioned at the end of my bed, so that's me fucked.

  • Beano #88 2 years ago

    "The machine-learning system can also tell where parts of your body should be even if they aren't visible to the camera (Extremity occlusion resilient)"

    Awesome... so maybe Natal 2 will be even better and not even have a camera since it knows where the player's limbs are? Sounds like magic :D

  • Caimbeul #89 2 years ago

    4 metres is only 13 feet, if peoples living rooms are thta small anyway surely it would not be a good idea to be jumping around punching and kicking virtual badies anyway. Of course, the many teens in their bedrooms will be up the creek.

  • kangarootoo #90 2 years ago

    @tancredo

    To be honest, those three points sound like marketing waffle rather than hard technical facts.

    "Off the charts"? What the hell does that even mean? I don't give a rats ass that some focus test thought it was "off the charts". They might as well say "20% more badass".

  • Ignatius_Cheese #91 2 years ago

    2.7m ceilings required as well! OMG! Less than 10% of the UK alone have ceiling heights about 2.4m. NATAL is doooooooomed I tells ya. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!

  • mcmonkeyplc #92 2 years ago

    Talk about epic fail.

  • megurushi Verified Consultant, 2e2 #93 2 years ago

    The distance you'll need from the sensor depends on how big you are and how much you move around. You need to stay within the cameras field of view, so if you are very tall (I am 6'6";) you may have to be further back from the TV for Natal to pick up your full range of movements. I don't think it would be able to detect my arms stretched above my head, given the size of my room; I just wouldn't be able to get back far enough so the field of view is large enough to fit me in. Imagine a cone shaped field from the camera, a small person can fit in the cone near the tv etc. So this means you don't want to move around a lot, or you will move out of that field of view. This will be more important at close distances.
    It will also depend on where you place the sensor, it ideally want to be waist height for the tallest person. I don't think I want to see that perched on top of my tv so that its the right hight, but it'll need to be there to work in the space i have available.

    So to sum up you have to either have a massive room or be a motionless dwarf.
    Edited by megurushi at 23/03/10 @ 11:00

  • Diomedes #94 2 years ago

    Natal will be a trainwreck of biblic proportions.

  • braydee89 #95 2 years ago

    I think this is the most important claim in the article:

    "That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors"

    meaning you don't need 4 metres, but natal detects you up to 4 metres away from the device.

  • Phishfood #96 2 years ago

    4 Metres!! I don't have that!! Also what about tall people? Won't they need even more space? and Japan, what about Japan? I have a feeling this PS3 wand will have a similar limitation.

  • roz123 #97 2 years ago

    I love the phrase "off the charts", its fine when your comparing something and it literally does go above the scale that everything else is on, but for consumer testing on a single product... stop being a dick and make a better chart.

  • mcmonkeyplc #98 2 years ago

    Oh wait I forgot this:

    OUTRAGE

  • rprince #99 2 years ago

    Another product MS are going to have to release an 'S' version for Japan!

    In all seriousness though, EyeToy would prefer you to stand about that far away, and Wii would prefer you not to have anything breakable within the vicinity, but we've all played those without care for those rules, haven't we?

    In fact, the article actually says that it's a maximum of 4m, so most action will probably occur at 2-3m

  • ignatiusjreilly #100 2 years ago

    This is a stupid article, as stupid as the same articles that every other gaming blog has run today.

    The most important thing is to post it - not worry about if it is true or makes any sense whatsoever.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #101 2 years ago

    OUTRAGE!

  • SpaceMonkey77 #102 2 years ago

    That could put a nail in Natal for me, not that I was ever a motion control fan anyway. Always give me a controller first. 4 metres?, have about 1.5.

    Its strange you know, in a similar to 3dtv, motion control is too being largely pushed on us, when many of us don't even want it.

  • TopKatt #103 2 years ago

    Okay, I've read the article and I've read the comments and now I'm confused. Can you use Natal if you have less than 4 metres or not? Someone get Richard Leadbetter on the phone!

  • iwantmynameuk #104 2 years ago

    There was not a chance in hell of me fitting into the urine the movies camera so this better have a serious wide angle lens.
    The movies we made starred `big f`in head only`, `mainly torso man` and a midget.

    granted the height differences in my family are comical, but that`s who i`d play natal with.

    post 111 at 11:11 do i win a prize?
    Edited by iwantmynameuk at 23/03/10 @ 11:14

  • drumbaby #105 2 years ago

    Natal seems a bit of a conditional luxury item....for gear-heads only, perhaps. Casual players need not apply..or if they do then I can't see them perservering with the act of shaping their life styles around a piece of tech'.

  • mode7 #106 2 years ago

    Natal 2 will fix this issue.

  • sneetch #107 2 years ago

    Well, like just almost everyone here I know I don't have 4m to spare for this but, like others, I think it's just bad phrasing, if it a) requires 4m of space and b) has a maximum range of 4m then that leads me to think that you pretty much need to be exactly 4m away for it to work. I very much doubt that. Someone misspoke.

    I'm more worried about the fact that my TV is quite close to the ground, I don't know how well this will work when the sensor is so low.

  • mfnick #108 2 years ago

    Is anyone actually reading this quote properly? Or even reading some of the comments?

    4m is the 'edge' of the sensor. Meaning it can see & work properly up to 4m away. Not that you have to be 4m away.

  • Sunyavadin #109 2 years ago

    I don't know anyone living in a council flat with this much space.

    Theoretically if I got rid of my furniture.....

  • Quak #110 2 years ago

    Living room, yes, but my gaming kit is in the spare bedroom which has about 3m max.

    So no Natal for me I guess!

  • dr_shambles #111 2 years ago

    OK can we just go back to properly calibrated pads now that work well and forget all this motion control nonsense?

    It's clearly been designed for gargantuan US households with living rooms the size of aircraft hangers as real estate over thre is much cheaper.

  • Moz #112 2 years ago

    The space issue has always been the fail for the Wii for me too. Games needing smaller movements or pointing are fine, oh wait that right you CANT use Natal for pointing oh well never mind don't think i'll be bothering!

  • MasterNameless #113 2 years ago

    Yeah, people need to get off their soapboxes and read the article properly, and not just the headline - which is rather misleading. :/

  • Collymilad #114 2 years ago

    Eurogamer really have become so tabloid-ish with their deliberately misleading headlines.

  • Sniper_007 #115 2 years ago

    How a mistake can cause 1000 responses (slight exageration I admit).

    As a number have pointed out this is a maximum of 4m of space!! If this was a minimum then it would probably rule out at least half of the major cities in the UK and Europe? I know in Sheffield the average living room size is around 12ft square and this is fairly representative of most major cities in the UK at least.

    PLEASE UPDATE THE ARTICLE EUROGAMER!! :)



  • ignatiusjreilly #116 2 years ago

    If this was a minimum then it would probably rule out at least half of the major cities in the UK and Europe?

    You'd think someone would think about that before writing the article. Like: "You know, this really doesn't sound right. Perhaps I should look into it before I post it as fact."

  • tancredo #117 2 years ago

    It seems there are many people here with problems understanding the concept of "back edge" as used in the original article.

    The back edge of Natal's maximum field of vision is 4m. At that maximum distance, the playing field increases to a max of 4m x 4m x 2.7 m

    4m is NOT the minimum playing distance

    Back to school kids!

    Probably receiving a -8 for this one
    Edited by tancredo at 23/03/10 @ 15:47

  • Gaol #118 2 years ago

    This article should really be removed, it's pretty misleading and cites some crappy site I've never heard of as a source.
    Edited by Gaol at 23/03/10 @ 12:06

  • cen4pgb #119 2 years ago

    Well at 3.5m wide room a few hundred yards from the edge of the city of London (London is a big place, the City of London however in the middle of it is only 1 mile by 1 mile) in a designated affordiable house some of the sizes of peoples house out of london must be bloody tiny.

    I suspect that by the time it maskes it to market natel will be able to calibrate by taking a photo with you out of the area (so standing next to the TV, and take into account of the room.

    I would be hugely suprised if it wont be usuiable by an avaeragish hieght man in a lesser space than even I have.

    Assuming you're gaming in HD you'll have a flatscreen, which means you should have less space issues.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #120 2 years ago


    Living in a boxey council house? No money left after binging on fags and booze?

    Vote labour!

    'Free Natal and 4 meter rooms for everyone, not the few!' (compliments your free broadband nicely)

    ;)

  • kangarootoo #121 2 years ago

    Ok, so the edge of detection is 4m, not the position you have to be at. Confusion over. This is now know, so lets draw a line in the sand.

    Anyone raging from this point on about needing 4m is declaring their idiocy in the clearest of terms for all to see.

    Starting now :)

  • marshaal5 #122 2 years ago

    Forget japan they dont buy 360s anyway.
    This is just the start what about lighting etc this could be one massive FAIL

  • altitude2k #123 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Nice! Unfortunately, those who don't read the comments to realise that it's reported incorrectly will also skip past your post to realise they're idiots.

    At lease we know they are ;)

  • altitude2k #124 2 years ago

    @marshaal5

    Tell me how poor lighting will affect the infrared cameras on Natal.

    EDIT: Affect. Affect. Affect.
    Edited by altitude2k at 23/03/10 @ 12:42

  • Skooch #125 2 years ago

    EUROGAMER UPDATE THE BLOODY ARTICLE!!!! 4 METRES IS THE MAXIMUM RANGE, NOT THE MINIMUM!!!

    ANYONE WHO POSTS AFTER THIS SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE 4M OF SPACE AND NATAL IS DOOMED TO FAIL IS A RETARD!

    Hope that is clear enough! :-D

  • Murton #126 2 years ago

    That's the UK fucked then, most new builds don't have that sort of space in in the garden let alone the living room and forget about it completely if you live in the flat or a studio apartment. Also notice that it has to be clear space, so no furniture or other obstructions.

    Natal is going to have a really tough time in the UK if that's not improved somehow before release.

  • Jayke #127 2 years ago

    Good lord! There is only one room in my house that is over 13 feet and it doesn't have a TV hahaha Oh my god ow obsurd!

  • Nighthaunter #128 2 years ago

    Good news, the queen has room for one!
    Sadly I don't.

  • blod74 #129 2 years ago

    Biggest issue for me is like many others I interpret this as a Maximum of 4m, which means it essentally creates a virtual box 4 width x4 length x2.7 Height, but what happens if there is something other than myself within the box such as furniture, kids, the wife etc.? Does that mean it needs to remain clear, if so then the 4m becomes a problem, as people have already noted, every demo is done is clear open space.

  • Skooch #130 2 years ago

    @murton and Jayke - you failed the test ;)

  • DaDon123456 #131 2 years ago

    Oh man...... I was looking forward to Natal..... if this is an absolute requirement, no Natal for me!

  • DaDon123456 #132 2 years ago

    Oh man...... I was looking forward to Natal..... if this is an absolute requirement, no Natal for me!

  • altitude2k #133 2 years ago

    @blod74

    Infrared cameras. And probably standing up and waving if you want Natal to recognise you as a player. Or something.
    Edited by altitude2k at 23/03/10 @ 12:52

  • kangarootoo #134 2 years ago

    @altitude2k

    My plan clearly hinges on the belief that everyone reads my posts. It is a cunning trap, that also serves to polish my ego :)

  • canIdoyabombsforya #135 2 years ago

    the article says "In terms of width and height, the field of vision naturally expands as it moves from the Natal device to that back edge, ending up a little more than 4 meters wide and 2.7 meters high "
    This could mean at 2 meters away the height will be 1 .35 meters. Not very good for a life-like Tennis game, or heading/throwing a ball like in the demos. You're going to have to crouch down. So, 4 meters does sound like the recommended distance, not the required.

    Edited by canIdoyabombsforya at 23/03/10 @ 14:15

  • makeamazing #136 2 years ago

    Looks like lots of people post without even bothering to read other peoples posts... now i know we all post crap sometimes, but you would think some of these people would at least scan the other posts :(

    Oh well....

  • LetsGo #137 2 years ago

    I trust Eurogamer thus I trust the headline.

    It says it REQUIRES 4 metres which I do not have.

  • meggsy #138 2 years ago

    It should be possible to rate down the actual article.

  • HandsomeCrab #139 2 years ago

    4 METRES!!!???!?!??!? Oh my GOD, that's ridiculous! I am enraged! Microsoft have srcewed me for the last time. I'm so angry, i'm not even going to read anyone elses posts or use any common sense and think maybe someone worded their statement wrongly.

  • TopKatt #140 2 years ago

    I DON'T HAVE 4M OF SPACE AND NATAL IS DOOMED TO FAIL

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #141 2 years ago

    If this is true then this has got to be the biggest clanger since Mega CD.

    I keep saying that when talking about Natal.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #142 2 years ago

    If this is true then this has got to be the biggest clanger since Mega CD.

    I keep saying that when talking about Natal.

  • Raz76 #143 2 years ago

    The article clearly states that you need 4 meters of space (if your arms are more than 2,7 meters off the ground).

  • Cairnius #144 2 years ago

    $10 dollars US says that Microsoft releases news within three business days detailing the "minimum amount of space needed" to utilize Project Natal. Americans tend to place their couches within 2 meters of their televisions by and large.

  • DiamondIce #145 2 years ago

    I always liked the idea of a cricket game utilising Natal. Imagine running up and bowling. It looks like it needs the length of a wicket to use so maybe this idea could be done.

  • muscleblade #146 2 years ago

    @IMO

    Well my couch is about 5 metres from my TV, but the whole room is about 20 metres across. I have a 60 inch LED TV so 5 metres is the perfect distance you see.

  • muscleblade #147 2 years ago

    @Darren

    Didnt know that a tech guy like you could live with a small screen for gaming.

  • youhavenomail #148 2 years ago

    I don't have the space. I knew as much before this story confirmed it. Best of luck, Microsoft!

  • thewool #149 2 years ago

    Oh really? Stick it up your arse then.

  • darleysam #150 2 years ago

    Is this not the maximum space that Natal measures, rather than the mandatory minumum to use Natal? If so, then a collective unbunching of panties is in order.

    "That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors"

    Looks like it to me.

  • ignatiusjreilly #151 2 years ago

    4m is the maximum and the minimum. If you step forward or backwards or sway too much it dumps you back into the menu.

  • darleysam #152 2 years ago

    I heard it gives you AIDS if you use it.

    Or if you don't use it.

    Cancer for those who don't buy it.

  • Sir_TimAlot #153 2 years ago

    What if you're a midget.......or Peter Crouch???

  • darleysam #154 2 years ago

    You pair up and start a hilarious sitcom about all your wacky escapades.

    edit: to be fair, Crouch was never going to be able to use Natal. It's programmed to function with a natural human skeleton and its movement. Crouch exhibits neither.
    Edited by darleysam at 23/03/10 @ 14:55

  • mossychops001 #155 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:49:27 04-05-2012

  • darleysam #156 2 years ago

    It is not a minimum space. You do not need to hire a village hall to play Natal. Read the buggering article and not just the headline.

  • Boomerang #157 2 years ago

    Where is this "buggering article" of which you speak? Sounds like a better read than this drivel!

  • smelly #158 2 years ago

    13 foot?

    So that milo video WAS a lie then?

    Wont work in my appartment.. msoft just lost a sale..

    Also gonna be hard for them to show it working in game shops/etc if you need that much space...

  • sonicyoda #159 2 years ago

    @CHAZBIGPOTATO

    The Mega CD is my favourite console. I love oddities.

  • HenryFitz #160 2 years ago

    I read the article as suggesting that 4m is the minimum space within which you should not have interfering objects. It remains to be seen how walls and ceilings will be dealt with, i.e. whether the software will automatically limit its image processing to objects one side of the wall or ceiling, or whether the user will have to manually set these limits. The other possibility, which is unlikely but interesting, is that gamers will be forced to take their Xbox 360s outside in the big bad world like in that 360 lifestyle ad that used to be on the telly. Maybe it's part of Microsoft's strategy for promoting gaming as social and public and cool; a way of making life imitate the adverts.

  • tancredo #161 2 years ago

    Some people must realize they have around 95% of their brain on PAUSE.

    4 m is the back edge of the playing field.

    Let's take it slow from here. Come on, all together:
    2 m = Good
    3 m = Good
    4 m = Good
    5 m = Bad
    6 m = Bad

  • neonxaos #162 2 years ago

    No, I have 3 m, tops. And I also have a table in front of the Xbox.

  • thewool #163 2 years ago

    Also not moving my coffee table just to play games - what am I going to stand my beer on?

    ...sorry MS you can still stick it up your arse :0)

  • thepiedpiper #164 2 years ago

    that is A LOT of space. xbox's in the garden it is then!!!

  • kangarootoo #165 2 years ago

    Look, everyone stop being so f*cking stupid. Just stop it. Stop writing stupid things because you read a stupid quote in a stupid article.

    EG, update the cocking article ffs. You are quoting someone at Techflash who is an idiot.

    They said,
    "To be precise, you'll want to clear an area extending at least 4 meters"

    That is simply bollox. "To be precise" my arse.

    Stop it everyone. Just stop it. With a capital STOP.

    Thankyou.

  • influenceuk #166 2 years ago

    lol, i can get 4m out of my living room if i move the room round a little. But Natal will have to be bloody special for me to move it round, i like it how it is now!

  • HenryFitz #167 2 years ago

    kangarootoo,

    That the tech is capable of image processing in a box 4mx4mx2.7m suggests that it must process images to those distances, as there is no way for the camera to know beforehand whether the room in front of it is small or not. The only question is how it deals with objects like walls and ceilings that will probably be in the way. If it does so badly, then the article is correct.

  • metalangel #168 2 years ago

    Fail! My couch is 2m from the TV and the wall is behind that! Do they think people live in fucking hangars? And this is in light of the Live Vision DEBACLE where you have to have it sitting practically on your knee otherwise you get just a tiny you waving in the distance for smugshots in Burnout Paradise. Fuck you M$! (hello, yes, I'm here to audition for the role of kangarootoo's chief idiot)

  • SniperZoz #169 2 years ago

    must be one of the lucky ones here ... i have about that much space ... :-)

  • MonsieurToni #170 2 years ago

    As was pointed out by many, hardly the minimum distance. But then again, there is a genuine problem with the camera detecting you if you stand within, say, two meters from Natal. As the area of detection in all dimensions will grow the further you go if you have less than four meters space you will have to re-position Natal for different kind of games. And totally forget the ones that require full-body movement.

    I think that it would be mighty useful to know what is the ratio with which the height expands by each meter you go further from your Natal. After all, wouldn't that 2.7 meters height imply that you would have to place your camera at 1.35 meters to start with in order to get the full game area in use?

  • tancredo #171 2 years ago

    I would guess the camera will focus on the player, taking the position coordenates from him. So if you are standing 2 m away from Natal, the camera will "darken" (stop computing) the 1 m behind you, since it only needs the 2 m separating the person and the machine to compute your position. It will fix everything behind you as flat background

    Then the autofocus will increase or decrease its angle of vision to encompass all the player and the needed playing field for each game. Since the player will most surely not be required to move 2 m back and forth, but only, let's say 50 cm sideways and/or back and forth, the camera will "darken" - loose the focus on- all that extra space behind you and to the sides.

    Basically, Natal would put the player in a virtual bubble. It would only need to adjust the focus of the camera (the bubble) to the player's size and game requirements. The space outside of the bubble, doesn't matter to Natal and the game, so Natal doesn't compute it.

    Of course there must be still a minimum distance required for Natal to pick up the full body. 1 m? 1.5m?

    Hardcore games sitting on a couch with the controller, as they may require only upperbody parts of the body for interaction, could work with less distance.

    Wild guessing, of course.

    - 4 for sure

    Edited by tancredo at 23/03/10 @ 17:18

  • cyber_nicco #172 2 years ago

    Doesn't it say that 4 meters back is the limit of Natal's sensors? I'm not sure that means that that much space is required - only that more would be meaningless...

  • Melan #173 2 years ago

    4 meters. Well not in my appartment.

  • kangarootoo #174 2 years ago

    @dj1917

    "Now you get minused for not reading the comments"

    No, you get minused for being dense. And reading the comments would have saved you from that. There is nothing in the comments that hasn't been discivered from reading and considering the article.


    There is just no helping some people.


    Edit: besides which, coming into a discussion forum and blinding stating things that have already been either said, or debunked, is poor netiquette. Now I don't much care about netiquette, but its not exactly new behaviour. If you want a place where you can say daft or lazy things without being called to account, a public discussion forum probably isn't that place.
    Edited by kangarootoo at 23/03/10 @ 17:32

  • kangarootoo #175 2 years ago

    @HenryFitz

    "That the tech is capable of image processing in a box 4mx4mx2.7m suggests that it must process images to those distances, as there is no way for the camera to know beforehand whether the room in front of it is small or not"

    I am not sure that is true. That would assume the camera software has no intelligence when it comes to seperating scenery from players, which seems to me unlikely. Natal isn't really doing anything previous Z cameras have done, and they don't struggle if there is a solid background object within their detectable range, because intelligent software makes decisions about what is background and what is a participant.

    Now if you had a huge panel behind you within 4m, and part way through a game you wheeled it away to reveal a larger room, within which there were additional poeple still within 4m, perhaps Natal WOULD struggle in that situation :)

  • Vyggo #176 2 years ago

    I have been known to upgrade for new games. Upgrading my house for NATAL is only a small step up isn't it :)

  • tancredo #177 2 years ago

    Natal: I think it is the same as if Angelina Jolie is standing 2m in front of me. My eyes will focus on her whole person (body) and whatever/whoever is behind her becomes background. I know it is there but I decide not to to compute my sorroundings. Just concentrate on Angelina

    If she gets to within 1m from me, I may have problems focusing on her whole body, so I may have to focus only on her upper body movements.

    (If she gets closer than that, I will die happy)
    Edited by tancredo at 23/03/10 @ 18:06

  • metalangel #178 2 years ago

    @tancredo: Better hope Angelina doesn't go past in the back of a blacked out limo while you're waiting on the curb to cross the street.

  • hahayou #179 2 years ago

    "Anything up to 4 metres will be detected, so anything up to 4 metres may "interfere". As walls don't move, your wall isn't likely to upset Natal."

    Um, if it's that easily interfered with does that mean I'm going to have to shut the dog in the hallway when I want to use this thing? I thought natal had some fancy sketal modelling software that would basically restrict inputs to humans...

  • man.the.king #180 2 years ago

    @ps3owner

    Replying to: "most americans have their own planet orbiting around them"

    Did you mean physically or mentally? ;)

  • Lamb #181 2 years ago

    But but....the pre-natal Wiimote only needs enough space so you don't hit anything.

  • Lamb #182 2 years ago

    Replying to: "most massive egomaniacs have their own planet orbiting around them"

    Yes there are more gas giants in our solar system than we know of!!! :p

  • devilmyarse #183 2 years ago

    I live in a big bungalow with a decent sized living room and unless I swap my viewing to length ways rather than width ways I won't have enough room. My living room is 3.5m wide (half a metre off for the couch) and 8 (rough estimates here) metres long. However putting my sofa 4 metres away would require me to upgrade my 42" Viera to a 95"+ screen... I think Microsoft have got their calculations wrong. How many people do you know with a 95"+ screen and/or the living room to accommodate such a behemoth.
    Edited by devilmyarse at 23/03/10 @ 21:42

  • djed #184 2 years ago

    Turn three hundred and sixty degrees and walk away.

  • Knightxxxl #185 2 years ago

    No 4 meters here either, thinking there is going to be alot of natals still sat on the shelf this christmas...

  • Rack #186 2 years ago

    It's amazing how many people are saying that people complaining are idiots and 4m is the maximum amount of space needed when the article and source both say in clear English that it is the minimum amount of space needed.

    The question remains whether this space needs to be clear because otherwise objects will interfere with the camera (ala Eyetoy) or for Health and Safety reasons (ala Wii). If it's the latter then no problem, but this being MS we can't discount the possiblity of the former.

  • mAc062 #187 2 years ago

    Im 1.97, I dont have a room in my apartment big enough for natal to pick up my entire body when I'm standing.

  • altitude2k #188 2 years ago

    4m is the maximum it will scan. If your room is smaller, it will adjust and compensate. Read Kotaku.

    Also, it detects people using an IR camera that picks up your body heat - furniture doesn't get taken into consideration. It's also not stupid enough to think that a radiator looks like a human skeleton.

  • kangarootoo #189 2 years ago

    @Rack

    "when the article and source both say in clear English that it is the minimum amount of space needed."

    The article is based purely on the source, and what the source says in clear English is wrong.

  • kangarootoo #190 2 years ago

    Good link from squarejawhero.

    Will people NOW get it? Does it really take kotaku to point out what was in front of our eyes?

  • HenryFitz #191 2 years ago

    How will it deal with windows? Will people going past your house end up taking a brief part in your game? Anyway, I predict incidences of teenagers spying on their friend's sister's Natal Yoga workouts will be rare.

  • Rubarack #192 2 years ago

    @Kanga

    That may be (we can hardly rely on MS telling the truth here) but no-one here was misinterpreting the article, just displaying an over abundance of credulity towards it. Just, I must point out, as you are doing to Kotaku's response.

    We'll just have to wait and see if this works in England (or even at all)

  • ParanoidZombie #193 2 years ago

    I'm 20 ft tall, which means no Natal for me ;_; ... Puny humans, I will crush you all!

  • staceyk #194 2 years ago

    Hell ya its big enough!
    e cigarette

  • ecig #195 2 years ago

    but 4 meters of space is too easy. Sounds like he is ready to quit.
    electronic cigarette liquid refill is a cheaper way sustained ecig use.