MS explains "theGAYERgamer" name ban

By Robert Purchese Published 15 May, 2008

Not a result of anti-gay lobbying.

Xbox Live "banhammer wielder" Stephen Toulouse has explained the decision behind banning "theGAYERgamer" Gamertag.

Toulouse and his team deemed the name to contain sexual innuendo, which is against the Gamertag terms of use. They were not, apparently, swayed by the weight of complaints from what the "theGAYERgamer" said can be an anti-homosexual audience.

"We received a complaint on the Gamertag and determined that it did indeed contain sexual innuendo. Granted, there could be an argument that the text is not pejorative to homosexuality and should therefore be allowed. But there is no context to explain that," explained Stephen "Stepto" Toulouse on his blog (spotted by Kotaku).

"Gamertags are visible to everyone and it would be hard for me to defend to a parent of a young child who saw it that the name did not contain content of a sexual nature."

"We do not take action based off the number of complaints, or how often people complain in a given day. Whether it's one complaint or 20, we will look at it the same way," he added.

Grant, "theGAYERgamer", mailed the Consumerist blog with a letter explaining he had just found out he would need to alter his Gamertag to continue to be allowed on Xbox Live.

He had first-hand experience of anti-homosexual comments directed his way during bouts of Halo 3, and so phoned Microsoft to determine if their complaints were the cause of the problem.

Grant was told that the "greater Xbox community" found his name offensive.

"To answer the question another way, yes 'TheStraighterGamer' or 'TheHeterosexualgamer' would have gotten the same treatment and would have been found to be in violation and forced to be changed. We've actually done that to tags like that before," Toulouse further explained.

"Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things have no place on Xbox Live and are in violation of our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct."

Toulouse went on to reveal the "good news" that complaints like this make up a "tiny, tiny fraction" of a percentage of the total users on Live.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (178) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • pikemon #1 4 years ago

    don't ask, don't tell

  • neilka #2 4 years ago

    How gay.

  • Rash' #3 4 years ago

    Xbox Live is loaded with adolesent homophobic gamers. This is a small step towards removing ignorance from Xbox Live.

  • phatb0y #4 4 years ago

    Bad news for Dave Cock then.

    Really though, how the hell can they be so prudish? MS might want to listen to a few random games of COD4. 'Fruity' names aren't the problem here.

    The little darlings they're trying to protect are usually the ones asking to come around to my house stick a broomstick up my black Jewish mother's ass. Right after they've done their homework of course.

  • speedjack #5 4 years ago

    Fair enough.

    No need to have that sort of thing rammed down your throat.


    ...did I just type that ?
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 11:19

  • JonFE #6 4 years ago

    Maybe he would have more luck with a "theCHO_ANIKIERgamer" Gamertag :)

  • agparrot #7 4 years ago

    "Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things have no place on Xbox Live and are in violation of our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct."

    Has he ever played on Live? Doesn't bloody sound like it - I have had some fantastic games of GTA IV recently, many of them with amusing and intelligent people from all over the planet, even Americans.

    However, there is a rotten streak of mostly American gamers that appear to think it is fine to call people Gay or the 'N' word, usually repeatedly-until-mute. Unfortunately it is far easier to police gamertags than to take into account the way the people that own them conduct themselves online.

    If theGAYERgamer is indeed gay, I can't really see a problem with his tag - he could surely defend it through another avenue, anyway, insisting that he is the 'happier' gamer in it's Olde Englishe context.

  • imamazed #8 4 years ago

    I once came across a player with the gamertag "IAN HUNTLEY8". Now, if that is his actual name, then he shouldn't be using it on XBL, and it probably wasn't anyway, so I filed a complaint.

    Also came across a "GhandiKillin4life" which offended me somewhat.

  • redlander #9 4 years ago

    "Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things are an integral part of the Xbox Live experience and are encouraged by most users"

    Fixed.

  • Eraysor #10 4 years ago

    It's a fair point that they want to keep innuendo off of XBL, but they need a better reporting system for idiots in the chat. I definitely don't want it to become like Nintendo's terrible Friend Code system though.

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #11 4 years ago

    I wonder if I'd be allowed 'MyPenIsHuge".

  • Darkedge #12 4 years ago

    anyone who has the tag "theGAYERgamer" even if they are gay is just stupid and inciting trouble from idiots. MS were totally justified as thats like the beatles saying they were bigger than god - it's going to cause controversy, even if it happens to be true in some ways. Dumb

    *edited as previous comparison was ill thought out - sorry.
    Edited by 2 at 15/05/08 @ 11:54

  • CannonAnBall #13 4 years ago

    I'm sure there is a video on youtube or something from the lobby of a Halo game where one gamer has 'GAY' in his name. What you hear is unreal:

    I've found it here!

  • bengray66 #14 4 years ago

    EuroGAYmer.....

    /gets coat.

  • Harlequeen #15 4 years ago

    Well, they've not complained about my name. But then there's some Italian FPS clan out there with the same name. And I don't think they're all gay. And of course, the whole thing is silly but unfortunately necessary. Things like N**gaKiller would be quite rightly banned.

  • Fab4 #16 4 years ago

    I wonder when they'll start banning all the little neo-nazi pricks running around with shit in their profiles.

    Edit: On a side note though, StepTo was very helpful getting a guy with the GT: I have Maddie, banned
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 11:10

  • miiiguel #17 4 years ago

    I'm either lucky, or we are indeed living on "soundbites". I never had a racist, xenophobic, sexist, or plain simple lesser-minded experiences on Live. Most times pretty kind kids (if sometimes a bit over excited, but that's part of the charm I guess), and quite reasonably inteligent adults.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 11:11

  • paketep #18 4 years ago

    No surprises there, typical puritan Americans

  • DanWhitehead #19 4 years ago

    anyone who has the tag "theGAYERgamer" even if they are gay is just stupid and inciting trouble from idiots. MS were totally justified as thats like calling yourself "thebetterhitler" - it's going to cause controversy. Dumb

    Being gay is like...being Hitler?

  • Unclebenny #20 4 years ago

    Darkedge- thats just silly. How can you compare identifying yourself as gay to someone comparing themsleves to Hitler? So by your logic people who are gay should hide it from the rest of the world.
    That is the problem right there. Rather than accepting gay people as just another part of the community most people say," I don't have anything against gay people but if they make a show of themsleves any trouble they get is thwere own fault." This in combination with the other major factor at play here, parents shielding their children from the phrase Gay as it were offensive. Perhaps if more parents explained to their children at a young age that some men like men and some women like women then it that part of our society would not be excluded in the way they often are and gay would not have become a popular playground insult. If you treat a word as tabo then thats will be what it becomes. (this subject properly steams my clams)
    I think microsoft should have had a bit more of a backbone and nto cowed out to people who don't want to explain sex or gay relationships to their children. There is nothing wrong with either subject. I can understand its a thorny issue though.
    I would like to agree that xbox live does contain some top notch people but like every major gathering of people also some idiots. However the fun I've had taunting them has more than made up for it.

  • BigD #21 4 years ago

    @ Rash'

    how so? removing theGAYERgamer just ignores the problem. keeping it there and banning people who abuse them would be a step towards removing ignorance, this is just a side step around the issue.


  • siro #22 4 years ago

    I'd say it's worse than Hitler. You're contageous and should be banned from life/live.
    /bullcrap

  • Kryon #23 4 years ago

    OMFGZ!!! They banned JediMasterMalik?!

  • Madafunkola #24 4 years ago

    I was berated by a very un-pleasant chap on GTAIV last night, calling me a F*ING RETARD for selecting a game at night, in the rain... Little did he know the rest of the lobby consisted of my friends and family, so he got a fair few retaliations.
    But how do we get these people banned?

  • Rodafowa #25 4 years ago

    Darkedge- thats just silly. How can you compare identifying yourself as gay to someone comparing themsleves to Hitler? So by your logic people who are gay should hide it from the rest of the world.

    That is the problem right there. Rather than accepting gay people as just another part of the community most people say," I don't have anything against gay people but if they make a show of themsleves any trouble they get is thwere own fault." This in combination with the other major factor at play here, parents shielding their children from the phrase Gay as it were offensive. Perhaps if more parents explained to their children at a young age that some men like men and some women like women then it that part of our society would not be excluded in the way they often are and gay would not have become a popular playground insult. If you treat a word as tabo then thats will be what it becomes. (this subject properly steams my clams)

    This. A thousand times this.

  • bhutz #26 4 years ago

    I saw "MaddyMcann" the other day, now that was a naughty gamer tag! Not bad at COD4 though.
    I think mine will get banned eventually...has the word Spunk in it...people love it though, suprised no one has snitched yet!

  • coach_mcguirk #27 4 years ago

    A friend of mine had to change "Trouser Payload", which seems fairly tame to me.

  • Kryon #28 4 years ago

    So, you're saying that parents should explain homosexuality to their young kids then? Well, I say that's up to the parents to choose an appropriate age to discuss such things with their children, why should it be forced down their throats on their kids latest toy by some selfish twat who didn't read the rules and regulations of being an XBL user. No sexual references in gamer tags, whether gay or not, that's the rule. XBL is not the place to flaunt such information imo.

  • paulf #29 4 years ago

    @ miiiguel you are really lucky mate - i dont know whether its depends on the games you play on live, i hear abuse on COD4 and halo3 almost every session I play, however its almost impossible for ms to police - for example I saw a player who's tag was 'assRaper' the other day, I'm not a daily mail reader but I had to report it ...

    on another note I have a friend who's surname is 'Gay' would he get banned for using his real name? (he found it difficult to start a facebook account in his real name)
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 11:34

  • Kryon #30 4 years ago

    LOL @ Charm :D

    Disclaimer - I'm not homophobic but that was quite funny.

  • Kryon #31 4 years ago

    lol I'm super, thanks for asking!

  • Derblington #32 4 years ago

    What if it was actually his surname? Then it has no sexual reference...

  • miiiguel #33 4 years ago

    paulf, yeah maybe..., I spent a lot of time playing "eastern-oriented" games like Kingdom Under Fire and Virtua Fighter 5 and I admit I played mostly with Korean, Japanese, Hong-Kong dudes. When I had a go at shooters I played with my UK friends and ocasionaly with a stranger or two, and no pitful encounters.

    Anyway, this tag is stupid..., we have to admit it. I don't understand this need to put our sexuality in everything. Live isn't the place for that and that is not beeing homophobic. Society isn't perfect, and in a faceless universal network this kinda thing is like asking to be annoyed.

  • NickD7 #34 4 years ago

    Just another gay attention whore. Gay people who have to flaunt their sexuality and tell the world they are gay are the same as straight people who go around telling everyone they banged lots of hot chicks last night. Would this be news worthy if it was a straight person complaining or even a bisexual person, no. For some reason being gay is enough to get you a front page article on Eurogamer.

    I know I'll make a gamertag called *I'm a nigga* and when 12 year olds fling racial slurs at me on Xbox live and MS ask me to change my gamertag I will sue their asses and call them a bunch of KKK lovers.

  • DanWhitehead #35 4 years ago

    Well, I say that's up to the parents to choose an appropriate age to discuss such things with their children, why should it be forced down their throats on their kids latest toy by some selfish twat who didn't read the rules and regulations of being an XBL user.

    Kids that age shouldn't be playing online unsupervised against strangers anyway. Parental controls means that parents have to approve every friend request and message sent and received by a child's XBL account. Considering the language thrown around online, stumbling across a Gamertag with the word "gay" in it is pretty much that last thing a parent should be worrying about.

    No sexual references in gamer tags, whether gay or not, that's the rule. XBL is not the place to flaunt such information imo.

    Gay isn't a sexual reference though. It's a sexual orientation, not an explicit sex act or sex organ, and - unless used in a derogatory way - it certainly shouldn't be considered an offensive term when used outside of a physically sexual context. As was said above, banning this Gamertag in order to keep the peace is like saying the best way to stop gay-bashing is to forbid gay people to go outside.

  • muscleblade #36 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    You cant be playing on Live much. In every 5 sessions (at least) on Live theres someone that says the word GAY. Thats Gay is the new word for thats bullshit actually.

  • Kryon #37 4 years ago

    Kids that age shouldn't be playing online unsupervised against strangers anyway. Parental controls means that parents have to approve every friend request

    So, lil Timmy gets a friends request from "T3hGAY3R" and you refuse the request, then Timmy asks what a Gayer is... Why is there a need to allow names like that at all, you're sexuality has nothing to do with XBL imo...

  • Darkedge #38 4 years ago

    okay comparison to hitler was ill advised and I certainly don't think that being gay or using the word gay is bad in any way. But the at tag is inciting people (idiots) to attack him - it's immaterial if he's gay or not.

    In an ideal world it would make no difference what he called himself but that is asking for homophobic dickheads to attack him - The word itself not bad but it's like walking around with a sign "kick me" on your arse and a target on your head saying "abuse me" - there will be tears and you cannot deny that. It's actually closer to trolling in an internet forum, pop in shout something controversial and leave - no reason for it just your own childish amusement. Stupid.

  • miiiguel #39 4 years ago

    DanWhitehead, ok..., but what's the need to put sex into Live? It has nothing to do with sex. Live is asexual. Is he looking for a date on Live? I mean... shit, it's just stupid. And I'm all pro everything, well not really pro, I'm a nihilist I guess, in a positive way, but I have to admit that many gays have this need to exhale their sexuality in everything they do.

  • Shinji #40 4 years ago

    It's a bit depressing to see people so readily conflating "sexual references" with "references to sexuality" - they're two entirely different things. Obviously Live, a service accessible to all ages, shouldn't tolerate the former - but banning the latter, in situations where it's being used non-offensively, is pretty hard to support. It's also pretty hard to understand how this is a priority for Live's community team, when the service's messaging systems and voice chat are absolutely teeming with incredibly offensive, homophobic and racist stuff.

    I also don't believe for a single second his claim that "TheStraighterGamer" would have received the same treatment. Not because I believe he's homophobic, but because I hope he's not that bloody stupid - "straight" has a somewhat more common use than being the slang for heterosexuality, after all...

  • miiiguel #41 4 years ago

    err..., and this "news" had this treatment because what it is, but I have some friends who got their "mottos" and "bios" replaced by the phrase "code of conduct", so once again "soundbites". This is happening, it's not just a "gay thing".
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 11:57

  • Madafunkola #42 4 years ago

    I do wonder where the line is realy drawn. Would any of these be allowed/banned?
    LooseMoralsFTW
    SexDrugsRockRoll
    SikhGamer
    HeroinChic
    BumHole
    JackAss
    LegHumper
    ???

  • CunningLinguist #43 4 years ago

    @NickD7

    Couldn't have phrased it better myself... well maybe I could have, but since you said I'll just endorse your comments instead.

    On a side note is that Cliff Bawhatever (lead designer on Gears 2) gay, or is it just his face?

  • Rodafowa #44 4 years ago

    I'm a nihilist I guess, in a positive way

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

  • DanWhitehead #45 4 years ago

    In an ideal world it would make no difference what he called himself but that is asking for homophobic dickheads to attack him - The word itself not bad but it's like walking around with a sign "kick me" on your arse and a target on your head saying "abuse me" - there will be tears and you cannot deny that. It's actually closer to trolling in an internet forum, pop in shout something controversial and leave - no reason for it just your own childish amusement. Stupid.

    Stupid, possibly. Brave? Probably.

    It's pretty much the most innocuous use of the term anyway. He didn't call himself CravesCock or LikesMensBums. He simply stated that he was the gayer gamer. I suppose other gay people may take offense at him boasting that his gayness was the gayest of all, but that seems unlikely. I have serious doubts about anyone who honestly gets angry or takes offense at such a bland statement.

    I mean, he's the one who got banned. He's the one who presumably received plenty of verbal abuse. And yet, somehow, he's the one who's wrong. It's a classic case of blaming the victim for their own fate, by suggesting that the fault lies with them for "inciting" the problem and not with those attacking them for, you know, attacking them.

    The idea that people are somehow "flaunting" themselves, or - as always - "forcing it down our throat", simply by identifying themselves as different is deeply odd.

  • Kryon #46 4 years ago

    "On a side note is that Cliff Bawhatever (lead designer on Gears 2) gay, or is it just his face?"

    I just think he's incredibly geeky, then again, I spose it would explain a lot ;-)

  • Madafunkola #47 4 years ago

    I'm sorry, but MS are banning this fairly inoccuous gamertag and at the same time releasing "ROCKETMEN URANUS EXPANSION"
    SICK FILTH!!!

  • optimusprym8 #48 4 years ago

    well after hundreds of years of oppression the homosexual side should be proud to be what they are but yes, no one wants it shoved down their throat (how many times will that be read here in this comments section today?) - you're homosexual, marvellous. I'm straight, marvellous. Right let's play some games shall we? What does it matter what your sexual orientation is? It shouldn't, it works both ways in terms of respect where it's deserved, it doesn't make any difference to how you play games (unless we want to get into the realms of stereotypes). Kids shouldn't be playing GTA or CoD4 but then hey, we're back onto that one again and blaming the parents.

  • chrisjm #49 4 years ago

    you seriously complained about "IAN HUNTLEY8" gamertag? so if someone with your name which resembles your gamertag commits a crime you will change your gamertag? did you complain about the presumably 7 other people with that gamertag, why not get the probably hundreds of people with that name worldwide to change their name.

  • miiiguel #50 4 years ago

    I don't have the slightest idea what that Ian "thing/guy" is...

  • Kryon #51 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    He's some nasty paedophile school janitor from the UK who killed (and probably raped) two young school girls.

  • Unclebenny #52 4 years ago

    NickD7- That my friend is a generalisation. Therefore is silly. Second why shouldn't he be able to put gay in his gamertag? Do all gamertags have to be relevant to what you do in game. If they were everyone would be called "camper" or "team-killer" or "wow that guys really good hes got a 30/5 kill death ratio".
    That whole I'm a nigga thing. Thats made me laugh, thanks. where to start? The N word is an offensive racist insult. Its used to insult people. Gay is a descriptive term for someones lifestyle choice. Its like getting abuse for putting "imasurfer" as you gt. I admit not quite the same but its a more relative comparison than the one you made.
    To eevryone who is saying that you don't want to be forced to explain the term gay to your children:
    Fair enough, it is your choice. I would like to make a few points though. One is that danwhithead is right, perhaps you shouldnt let your children play the games where this bigotry flares up in the first place. Two- Yes gay can have sexual connotations but if you are not explaining them to your child are not suggesting to them that sex is bad and should be thought of as taboo and that gays are bad and should not be spoke of. Basically leaving the education of your child in terms of homosexuality to people who like to scream it down microphones. 3- Is it not better to explain these things to your child in a controlled environment in a reasonable way? Or to let them form opnions on "the gays" by listening to people on xbox live and other children in the playground.
    Its obv your choice but thats just the way I see it.
    Steams.....my.....clams....!

  • kestral #53 4 years ago

    Any name not suitable for children suit not be on xbox live it's a family orientated service. Now how to police millions of people's choices is of course very hard. how it is possible to create gamertags with certain sexually orientated words in them and how it's impossible for microsoft to filter on this I don't know. Maybe they don't want to do that. Maybe parents don't want their children to play on xbox live. A lot of these statements probably raise more questions :p

  • miiiguel #54 4 years ago

    nasty...

    off-topic: I almost puked (literally, no bs) when I heard about Austrian dude on telly.

  • CunningLinguist #55 4 years ago

    @Kryon

    Speaking of pedophiles.

    http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=y7jVnrfoZ...

  • Kryon #56 4 years ago

    OK, look, the word 'gay' may not be a direct sexual reference but come on,The most common use for the word is in regards to what a person likes sexually. It's nothing like saying I'm a surfer!

    surfer - A person who likes to surf, on the net or perhaps in the sea on a board.

    Gay - A man who likes having sex with other men.

    I don't feel I should have to explain the latter after a go on the family console. I don't care if a person is gay, a tranny (like JedimasterMalik) or a midget into amputee porn, I don't need to know to enjoy a game with them. It's just not necessary imo.

  • #57 4 years ago

    NickD7

    well said m8. This is exactly how i feel. Why do Gay ppl feel the need to tell all and sundry about their sexual preference? When i played EVE there was this guy called BackdoorBandit - his sig was loud and colourful and said " Campaigning for your right to approach from the rear".

    Yes slightly amusing, but it really pissed me off. Gay ppl suck in the other sense of the word. I dont tell everyone my sexual preference so why must gays broadcast it?

  • Kryon #58 4 years ago

    @CunningLinguist

    I've got the DVD, bloody hilarious stuff :D

  • Unclebenny #59 4 years ago

    Kryon- I only made that comparison to show the stupidity of the "nigga" gay comparison. I did say it wasn't a great comparison. Anyway I really cant see how this ramming it down your throats. If someone was called the "undertaker" or the "sewage cleaner" or "the social care worker who has to deal with incontinent older people" would be annoyed you had to explain to your children these slightly uncomfortable topics. I dont like this idea you cant express yourself in just your screen name. Why cant you just say to your children that men loves other men you dont have to go into graphic detail about what they might do to each other.

  • DanWhitehead #60 4 years ago

    well after hundreds of years of oppression the homosexual side should be proud to be what they are but yes, no one wants it shoved down their throat (how many times will that be read here in this comments section today?) - you're homosexual, marvellous. I'm straight, marvellous. Right let's play some games shall we? What does it matter what your sexual orientation is?

    You've answered your last question with your first sentence. You can't acknowledge that homosexuals (or any other minority group) has been oppressed for hundreds of years and then say that the difference doesn't matter. Because to gay people (or black people, or whatever) the difference does matter, and it matters every single day. Society totally defines gay people by their sexual orientation, yet for them to use their sexual orientation as an open part of their public persona somehow makes them the problem. We've come a long way from the 1960s, when gay men were sent to prison for being who they were, but let's not pretend that the playing field is level.

    It's a "can't see the wood for the trees" argument. Our culture is absolutely saturated with heterosexual imagery and, as part of the heterosexual majority, we just take that for granted as the norm. Pretty much every other advert on TV, in magazines, on bus shelters, uses heterosexual imagery to sell everything from ice cream to cars. Our culture is so hetero dominated that the outspoken homosexual voice looks like he's making a big deal out of nothing. Make a movie about a man and a woman falling in love and it gets a PG and huge box office. Make the exact same movie about two men falling in love and it gets slapped with an adult rating and shoved to the arthouse fringe.

    Someone calling themselves gay in a public forum shouldn't be the cause of this much hand-wringing in 2008. If a parent is shocked, concerned or outraged at the possibility of their child stumbling across a Gamertag with the word "gay" in it, but doesn't feel equally aggrieved by the constant and far more explicit heterosexual imagery plastered everywhere else then they're being horribly hypocritical.

    How many games feature sexualized depictions of women with enormous tits and tiny clothes? And yet the simple out-of-context use of the word "gay" is something no child should have to see? That's bullshit.

    For the record, I told my son about homosexuality a month or so back. I can't even remember what prompted the question, but I just told him that sometimes men like other men and women like other women. He just nodded, shrugged and carried on with whatever he was doing. Hardly the end of the world. It's the parents who have the hang-ups, not the kids.

  • Kryon #61 4 years ago

    @Unclebenny

    I honestly do get what you're saying but I'm just happy that MS disallow names with any kind of possible sexual undertones, it is meant to be a family friendly experience (although, most of the time it's not) but at least they're trying to keep the names clean...

  • BobsUncle #62 4 years ago

    You're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots round here.

  • paulf #63 4 years ago

    what is more concerning really is how the word gay has been hijacked to be used to describe something that is rubbish, hence associating a particular sexuality with something crap.

    in theory his gamertag could mean 'the rubbish gamer'

  • DanWhitehead #64 4 years ago

    You're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots round here.

    I heard that chewing tobacco makes you a goddam sexual Tyrannosaurus...

  • Unclebenny #65 4 years ago

    DanWhitehead- Top stuff.
    Kryon- Fair enough maybe we just disagree with whats family friendly. I know from personal experience (not som,ething to get into here) tell someone something as a child and they will usually accept it then get on with life because thats more interesting to them (see Dan's comments). Tell them as an adult and they'll get scared, reactionary, angry or confused. Of course I dont have kids so I understand I'm not coming from an experienced background here
    I totally agree with the removal of sexually explicit or offensive names. Why some people cant be more orignal in their gamer tags is beyond me. How may supasnipers and topkillas do I have to see?

  • CunningLinguist #66 4 years ago

    The most pertinent assessment of this Xbox Live debacle, and it's not even related.

    "One man kebabed, hundreds scarred forever by a shared blood ritual. And yet an astonishing sense of community here now, a positive atmosphere, a sense of a job well done, a shared sigh of relief. Very much like the bizarre euphoria at the end of an hour's vomiting."

  • _Jamie #67 4 years ago

    HugeBlackPenIsHere

  • Kryon #68 4 years ago

    @Unclebenny
    Yeah, DanWhitehead does make some very good (and eloquently put) points but he's a journo so I can't go up against him as I'd loose a written argument :'(

  • AbyssUK #69 4 years ago

    I don't like censorship in any form, everybody has a right to have any name they wish. The option should be for everybody else to have it turned on/off not ban/remove the 'bad' names.

    This also means MS have to spend less cash 'reviewing' names and might actually be able to design a 360 that doesn't overheat.

    AbyssUK

  • Waldo #70 4 years ago

    You're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots round here.

    Strap this on your sore ass, BobsUncle.

  • Kryon #71 4 years ago

    Waldo, you gots an awful perdy mouth, thar boy!

  • Spielo #72 4 years ago

    "Gayer" isn't remotely close to being innuendo. I personally don't see the need to associate sexuality with an online gaming handle, but if someone else wants to then why shouldn't they? If they don't mind the negative attention they might garner from small-minded morons, then what's the problem?

    Using the kids/parents argument is pathetic, if a child sees the word "gay" and asks what it means, they should be told. They'll either be told "Some people fall in love with people of the same gender as themselves, there's nothing wrong with it, blah blah" or they'll be told "some people are posessed by satan and our religion tells us that these people deserve to die and live in hell for all eternity", depending on where the parents stand on the matter. Either way it doesn't raise "difficult" questions in any way shape or form.

    Saying that Xbox Live doesn't tolerate homophobia is completely false. The idiot user that recently sent me a voice message shouting "YOU'RE A FUCKNG FAGGOT!" at me certainly didn't have any sort of action taken against them. Water off a duck's back to me, but still totally unacceptable behaviour.

  • Hog-lumps #73 4 years ago

    To those complaining about their children coming into contact with 'Gay gamer tags' online.

    Why on earth are you letting your children play online in the first place? Surely you are exposing your child to all sorts of dangers such as possible exposure to paedophiles/obscene language - coming into contact with a slightly gay name should be the least of your worries!
    Edited by 2 at 15/05/08 @ 13:28

  • Rodafowa #74 4 years ago

    Dan Whitehead has summed up most of my feelings on the subject far more eloquantly and reasonably than I would have. I'd just add to those who are saying "I don't want to have to explain to my children what "gay" means" - um, why not? What's so hard about telling them that while most boys want to have girlfriends and most girls want to have boyfriends, some boys want to have boyfriends and some girls want to have girlfriends? Nobody's saying you have to go into the exact medical details, for crying out loud.

  • bigbadbeasty #75 4 years ago

    As vercetti102 said- Perhaps he(or she) is just a 'Happier' Gamer?

    Maybe his or her name is Gay?

    The sexual undertone crap dosn't wash with me at all. It always seems to me that the word gay always has this sexual reaction that is completely unnecessary. If that person wishes to get hassle from the said folks that will mock him for such a name it is his/her choice.

  • DandyKong #76 4 years ago

    It's been said before, but it can't be said enough IMO: the word gay refers to a sexual orientation, not (necessarily) to sexual acts. One can be gay without ever having sex with anyone of your own gender. (Not that I'd recommend that).

    The arguments used by MS to ban that username sound like complete bullshit to me. They're just caving in to pressure from conservative Live users / parents.

  • login_name #77 4 years ago

    Guy A has slogan "I do women!"
    Guy B has slogan "I do men!"

    Both are unacceptable. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it to fit in with your personal/political views on homosexuality, it's still a sexual reference. Is it the worst ever seen, or heard, on Live!? No, of course not, but that doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

    No one should be treated differently due to their sexual orientation, but that goes both ways. What is the need to advertise your sexual orientation on a video game console? It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, it has no place on Live!.

    You want to put yourself out there and display your sexual preference at every opportunity, whether for personal or political reasons? Then prepare for a backlash - homosexual or not. If you want to be treated like everyone else, act like everyone else.

    I have homosexual friends, I shared a house with a homosexual colleague. Aside from the usual male banter in the pub, not once do they feel the need to advertise their personal life. They don't hide it, they just don't force it down everyone's throat. Just like I don't tell everyone I bump into that I like women. You can be openly gay without being a walking billboard.

  • L42yB #78 4 years ago

    PenIsland

    :)

    That's actually a website...

    EDIT: Here it is - http://www.penisland.net
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 13:36

  • CreepinJesus #79 4 years ago

    I think they should just let everyone have whatever name they want. If there's someone with a name like "AmericanInbred" then so be it - its their name. If they want to be frowned upon and have no friends then that's their problem, not everyone else's.

  • Unclebenny #80 4 years ago

    login_name; I think what we're getting into here is that some gay men are camp. This can be annoying and it can be easy to link gayness and campness. I'm not suggesting you are, but is it possible you are just assuming because gayergamer put gay into their status they are making a big deal out of it. Seems to me most people like to put something interesting about themselves or try and make themselves sound cool with their gt's. I've never encountered (knowingly) a gay gamer on live and if i saw that name it would I would notice it more than "redneckkilla25" but then its on with the game.
    I agree with you if gayergamer was in the pre-game lobby shouting "I'm gay, I'm gay". that would be too much. Theres a distinction here we are missing between "ramming it down peopes throats" and just expressing yourself.

  • monkie_king #81 4 years ago

    L42yB: That's actually a parody. And a very old one.

  • Kryon #82 4 years ago

    I'd just add to those who are saying "I don't want to have to explain to my children what "gay" means" - um, why not? What's so hard about telling them that while most boys want to have girlfriends and most girls want to have boyfriends, some boys want to have boyfriends and some girls want to have girlfriends? Nobody's saying you have to go into the exact medical details, for crying out loud.

    The only problem is, young children have a tendency to ask "why" rather a lot. XBL is designed to be family friendly. Having to explain about 'sexuality' is something to do when you feel the child is old/mature enough to fully understand what is being explained.

    I agree with login_name...

  • Garulon #83 4 years ago

    @madafunkola:"so he got a fair few retaliations. But how do we get these people banned? "

    You go to "recent players" (he'll still be on there) and click "File a complaint", then I think it's abusive language. It'll take about ten seconds. Do it for the community!

  • Rodafowa #84 4 years ago

    The only problem is, young children have a tendency to ask "why" rather a lot. XBL is designed to be family friendly. Having to explain about 'sexuality' is something to do when you feel the child is old/mature enough to fully understand what is being explained.

    And parents have a tendency to reply "because it just is" a lot. I still don't see what the big deal is.

  • Garulon #85 4 years ago

    "The idiot user that recently sent me a voice message shouting "YOU'RE A FUCKNG FAGGOT!" at me certainly didn't have any sort of action taken against them. Water off a duck's back to me, but still totally unacceptable behaviour."

    You filed it right? I mean i'm pretty broadminded but I'm aware other users aren't so If I see GTs or mottos that are obviously designed to offend (last one I saw was a French idiot with "rape me!!! (woman)" as his motto) I'll report em. I normally despise censorship, but unless you're going to do something really stoopid and lame like Friend Codes we've gotta police GamerTags and mottos. I can't think of any way MS can make it easier.

  • abrakababra #86 4 years ago

    I would just like to say that this has made a very interesting debate, and most of you are fairly mature about the matter.
    I didn't think much about reading or writing posts on eurogamer untill now and I think I'll be doing just that more often in the future.
    So fair play to you all and your brain-squelching!
    I'm tending to lean towards 'theGAYERgamer' side on this one as he/she is, from what I've gathered, the victim here.
    I dont feel like (for lack of a better term) its being "rammed down my throat" and it is ridiculus that the tag was banned where as the many other tags with racist slur and mottos are still out there in force.
    The name doesn't suggest a sexual act but orientation and since when is it wrong to state what you are or are not?
    Certain people (benefiting from a religious lobotomy) would be offended if a tag stated a certain orientation of creed, but would it be right to ban it? not much else I can say that Dan hasn't siad for me already, good man Dan!
    Edit:I was quite cranky about this untill I saw someone out of my balcony try to drive off with a wheel clamp on his car, gave me an evil look when I laughed a bit too loudly.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 14:02

  • ruttyboy #87 4 years ago

    Firstly, thanks for fixing the typo in the article title :)

    Secondly, to those who are complaining about 'Gays' shouting out about their homosexuality, you do realise that for every one who makes it clear there's probably ten who just keeps it quiet? They could be your colleague, your friend, your brother even your dad!

    "RUN! THE GAYS ARE COMING!"

  • Kryon #88 4 years ago

    "And parents have a tendency to reply "because it just is" a lot. I still don't see what the big deal is."

    Children aren't stupid, they know they are being fobbed off when given that response, look, it's not a massively huge deal but all I'm saying is, I prefer these things to be moderated to some extent.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 14:02

  • Spielo #89 4 years ago

    @Garulon: Yes, I did report the user, and review him and all that malarkey, but nothing really comes of it. He retaliated by submitting negative player feedback of me, claiming poor sportsmanship, but I've no idea why. Perhaps his connection dropped and I shot him when he couldn't move or something stupid like that. Anyway, c'est la vie.

    If Xbox Live was moderated more vigilantly, I would feel much happier about paying a yearly fee for a peer-hosted gaming service. There should be a zero tolerance system in place for racist/homophobic/etc abuse. If someone is proven to have behaved inappropriately, a warning and a one month ban should come into place effective immediately. If the user then does it again, a permanent ban should come into place, with no refund for their membership fee.

    Microsoft need to make it very clear that abusive behaviour is not tolerated, and should be punishing the people that are in the wrong, not people with harmless gamertags.

  • Fab4 #90 4 years ago

    Forget people expressing their sexuality, its these assholes that need to be removed from XBL, and society in general....[link url=http://www.1ssclan.c om/index.htm
    ]http://www.1ssclan.c om/index.htm
    [/link]

    I've already successfully had one of them deleted (SS Steiner) when he spouted his nazi claptrap on the xbox forums.

  • Amazing Bryan #91 4 years ago

    Is this what we have become?

  • TriggerHippie #92 4 years ago

    Gay means happy and happy means gay!

  • DandyKong #93 4 years ago

    And there we go once again with the "the children! Won't somebody think about the children!" argumentation.

    I think it's only good that children learn at a young age about diversity. You don't have to give them any gory details, just tell them that sometimes two men or two women like each other so much that they want to share their life together, just like Mum and Dad. Whatever could be wrong with that.

    Besides, the video that xxxgayboyxxx (I think) made about what happened when he wanted to play online with that tag was about Halo. If you think your child is old enough to play Halo online, they should be old enough to learn about different sexual orientations.

    I chose not to watch that video, btw. I find it very hard to deal with that sort of hatred and ignorance. Strangely that can apparently just go on on XBox live. I haven't heard any parents complain about the hatred on XBox Live either. Apparently that is not as bad as somebody saying something about their identity.

  • Athrack #94 4 years ago

    People have too much free time on their hands.

  • LiamK #95 4 years ago

    If I understand how child's accounts work on Live, if someone with a childs account was playing Halo 3/COD 4, they would see all the gamertags of the people playing against them, right? So it does make sense that people shouldn't be allowed obscene names there.

    On the other hand, can people with child accounts hear lobby talk and the like? Wouldn't it make sense that kids can only hear talk from people on their Friend's lists?

    You seriously complained about "IAN HUNTLEY8" gamertag? so if someone with your name which resembles your gamertag commits a crime you will change your gamertag? did you complain about the presumably 7 other people with that gamertag, why not get the probably hundreds of people with that name worldwide to change their name.

    WARNING: MADE UP STATISTICS FOLLOWING

    Okay, how many people use their actual name as their gamertag? About 1%. How many people worldwide are on XBox Live? About 0.0000001%. So if you meet someone online using the name "Ian Huntley", are you going to assume that he's the 0.000000000000000001% of Ian Huntley's out there who might be using XBox Live AND he's using his real name (along with, apparently 7 other Ian Huntley's). Or do you think he's someone using a well known name for humorous/winding up purposes?

  • GordonCaladan #96 4 years ago

    XBL - the place where you can call everyone gay but yourself.

  • login_name #97 4 years ago

    Seems to me most people like to put something interesting about themselves or try and make themselves sound cool with their gt's.

    Is your sexual orientation an interesting aspect of you that you would like to show the world in a gamertag? Why is being gay interesting to a gay person? Why is it cool to tell everyone your sexual preference? It should be an every day, boring aspect of his life.

    I'm not suggesting you are, but is it possible you are just assuming because gayergamer put gay into their status they are making a big deal out of it.

    I assume nothing about the person involved. I see an inappropriate gamertag and stated my reasoning. Prehaps you, and everyone else who thinks he's being unfairly treated, assume that he is not trying to make a big deal out of it. Does anyone here actually know who this person is and why they picked the name or are you just using it as a platform to voice your own political viewpoints on the subject?

    At the end of the day, it doesn't matter why they picked it or if it's homosexual or heterosexual in content. It is a sexual reference and has no place on Live!

  • ruttyboy #98 4 years ago

    As someone said earlier (I think Shinji) sexual reference =/= reference to sexuality. If you want to use such a broad definition as to confuse the two then there's plenty of other things you shouldn't be allowed to use either. Any reference to eggs should be banned, any reference to children, BANNED!

  • PearOfAnguish #99 4 years ago

    And this on the same day they release 'Rocketmen Uranus'.

  • Madafunkola #100 4 years ago

    I would like to cite "South Park: The Movie" as an indication of American opinions on censorship.
    "Mindless violence (and gore) is OK, as long as you don't have a potty mouth"
    I'm going to guess that sex (of any kind, straight, gay, trisexual) lumps in with the "cursing" rather than the violence after the UPROAR over Janet Jackson's nip-slip... wardrobe malfunction.
    So kids are TOTALLY aloud to blow the bejeezus out of each other online, but NO REFERENCES TO GENITALIA!!!!!
    Many states have the age of consent at 18 (well South Carolina it's 14 for a woman and in New Mexico its 17 for straight but 16 for gay) but they can own a gun at any age (buy one at 18)...

  • DanWhitehead #101 4 years ago

    If I understand how child's accounts work on Live, if someone with a childs account was playing Halo 3/COD 4, they would see all the gamertags of the people playing against them, right? So it does make sense that people shouldn't be allowed obscene names there.

    And if you're sensitive about what your children are exposed to, they shouldn't be playing Halo or Call of Duty, never mind playing it online against strangers. As I said before, an "obscene" username (which "theGAYERgamer isn't) is the least of your worries in that scenario.

    Children aren't stupid, they know they are being fobbed off when given that response, look, it's not a massively huge deal but all I'm saying is, I prefer these things to be moderated to some extent.

    Just because a kid knows they're being fobbed off (wow, that sounds gay) doesn't mean the parent should be browbeaten into explaining something they don't want to. My son sometimes asks questions about jokes on The Simpsons or Futurama, and - if it's something overtly sexual - then I just make something up or say it's a grown up joke. He may grumble and pester, but - hey - that's kids for you.

    On the extremely unlikely off-chance that a child finds a Gamertag with "gay" in it, and is curious enough to ask what it means, there are plenty of explanations that can be used without even mentioning homosexuality. Personally, I'd rather my children learn what these terms mean from me rather than the playground, since that's how bigotry gets continued from generation to generation. There's a difference between learning about sex and learning about sexuality. Every kid knows that men and women fall in love and get married blah blah blah, so why is it so awful for them to learn that sometimes people of the same gender do the same? The more kids learn that it's not a big deal, the less of a big deal it becomes. Because, unless you're a die-hard religious nut, it really isn't a big deal. It's just a fact of life.

    As for the question of moderation, Microsoft are sending out a pretty mixed message by banning a gay player just for using "gay" in their Gamertag, while hundreds of users continue to hurl homophobic and racist abuse at each other. If they banned everyone who did that, the service would be a wasteland. A wonderful wasteland where the few remaining gamers can play against each other in peace, but a wasteland all the same.

  • mkreku #102 4 years ago

    I wonder if EpicBoobies contains sexual innuendo..?

  • bad09 #103 4 years ago

    "XBL - the place where you can call everyone gay but yourself."

    lol, great post GordonCaladan!

  • Kryon #104 4 years ago

    @DanWhitehead

    OK, I agree with most of that but are you suggesting that all names should be allowed on XBL or is it that you *personally* don't have a problem with name tags relating to sexuality?

    Just because a kid knows they're being fobbed off (wow, that sounds gay)

    LOL :D

  • DanWhitehead #105 4 years ago

    Is your sexual orientation an interesting aspect of you that you would like to show the world in a gamertag? Why is being gay interesting to a gay person? Why is it cool to tell everyone your sexual preference? It should be an every day, boring aspect of his life.

    If you really don't understand why a member of a minority group would want to make a statement about themselves in such a way, then there's really nowhere for this debate to go. If it's an everyday boring aspect of their life, why is it so terrible for them to mention it? Surely, using your criteria, it should be no more offensive than someone called ManUtd4EVA or IlovePIZZA.

    And let's not pretend that this is an issue regardless of gender. Society, as a whole, gets way more uptight and weird about even the most innocent aspects of homosexuality, largely because - as has been pointed out - we can't separate sexuality from the sex act. A gay man who has never had sex with another man is still gay. Generally speaking, in these sorts of arguments, heterosexual males spend more time talking and fretting about explicit gay sex acts than any gay person ever will.

  • Unclebenny #106 4 years ago

    "Is your sexual orientation an interesting aspect of you that you would like to show the world in a gamertag? "
    Why shouldn't it be? As Dan said earlier, the gay community is in a minority. Therefore it seems reasonable that an interesting aspect of their personality would be they are both gay and a gamer, as the two sterotypes dont fit together too well. This therefore makes for an interesting point.

    "I see an inappropriate gamertag and stated my reasoning. Prehaps you, and everyone else who thinks he's being unfairly treated, assume that he is not trying to make a big deal out of it."
    I don't agree that its inappropiate but I've already stated my reasoning for thsi. Perhaps we are all assuming too much but the fact remains you want his name removed irrespective of what he is like as while on live. You just find the word gay inappropiate. (correct me if I'm worng). This is my problem with this debate. If we continually treat the word gay as a "sex word" that should only be uttered by naughty children and stupid offesnive teenagers the gay community is marginalised through no fault of its own.
    II imagine most parents will explain sex to their children when they inevitably ask, why must gay relationships be any different? Much better the parent explains the subject in a balanced sensible way than for a mish- mash of definitions be picked up on the playground and over xbox live.

    Also can any of these parents who dont want their children seeing and hearing bad thing sover xbox live please confirm what their children are playing? Is its COD4 and halo 3 then we have a problem right there. Even with supervision although that is much better than without.

  • DanWhitehead #107 4 years ago

    OK, I agree with most of that but are you suggesting that all names should be allowed on XBL or is it that you *personally* don't have a problem with name tags relating to sexuality?

    I certainly don't condone the idea that any name should be allowed. Abusive names or explicit names should certainly be moderated. It's just that I don't think the use of the word "gay" makes something sexual or offensive or explicit. Like I said earlier, if the Gamertag in question was something like CraveCocks or he had a motto that promoted his love of teabagging hairy gentlemen, then I'd have no problem at all with Microsoft censoring that.

    It's this notion that simply saying "I'm gay" is some sort of overtly sexual statement, rather than a personal one, that I don't get. If I say I prefer brunettes, is that an outrageous utterance that would be inappropriate in a public forum? Does it immediately conjure up a mental image of me straining away on top of a brown-haired lady, my pale buttocks undulating like two VW Beetles trying to reverse around each other?

    No. Or, at least, I hope not.

    Because we've long since been able to disconnect the concept of straight sexuality from the act itself. We can talk about hetero relationships without immediately thinking of the sex acts that go with it.

    And yet, for some reason, the minute homosexuality rears its fabulous head all thoughts apparently turn to graphic imaginings of the foul, depraved bedroom antics they must get up to. Which is a bit silly, really. Like I said, for every gay person I've ever known, they've been able to talk about their relationships in the same way as me. It's only straight males (and, let's face it, it's almost always the boys) who automatically equate the three-letter "gay" bomb with visions of enormous engorged cocks thrusting into scary places.

    Basically, we all need to grow up a bit and realise that homosexuality exists, it has always existed, and the current weird taboo surrounding it is an out-dated social construct purposefully encouraged by foolish puritanical tyrants. There's absolutely no logical reason why homosexuality should be an issue in the 21st century.

  • zuljin #108 4 years ago

    @DanWhitehead
    "...so why is it so awful for them to learn that sometimes people of the same gender do the same? The more kids learn that it's not a big deal, the less of a big deal it becomes. Because, unless you're a die-hard religious nut, it really isn't a big deal. It's just a fact of life."

    I think I love you. :)

  • Madafunkola #109 4 years ago

    "There's absolutely no logical reason why homosexuality should be an issue in the 21st century. "
    DanWhitehead for President...
    No, strike that,
    DanWhitehead for POPE!

  • Golgo #110 4 years ago

    What's the problem? I thought everyone was gay on Xbox Live, myself included.
    That's what I keep getting told via headphones, anyway...

  • peterfll #111 4 years ago

    @DanW

    Just a thanks and a thumbs up from me Dan who - as a gay 36 year old man - at times can't be bothered to respond to this thread in the eloquent manner you have. I just don't have the energy anymore to get into this debate when so many people display such a basic lack of understanding on how being part of a minority works.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 15:29

  • bigbadbeasty #112 4 years ago

    I completely agree DanW. A perfect post that should hopefully silence some of the ridiculous posts in this thread.

    And lets face it they never would have banned the GamerTag 'iLoveGirls' or anything similar. It saddens me that issues such as this are even raised anymore.

  • Kryon #113 4 years ago

    I must admit, I really can't argue with old Dannyboys points, and I'm glad we had this discussion, you've made me see things from a slightly different perspective. I must admit you're quite a smarty pants and that I have been pwn3d :'(

    :-)

  • DanWhitehead #114 4 years ago

    And with that, it's over to Colin Popshed for Gay Desk...

    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=MpfVeMp_UKM

  • PearOfAnguish #115 4 years ago

    This thread is gay.

  • Kryon #116 4 years ago

    I think the user ID "PearOfAnguish" has explicit homosexual undertones, should be banned in all fairness ;-)

  • DanWhitehead #117 4 years ago

    "Pear of Anguish" was actually a Victorian term for a ladies hoo-ha.

  • Kryon #118 4 years ago

    gLOL :D

  • PearOfAnguish #119 4 years ago

    Are you sure? It was also the name for a particularly nasty <a href=http://www.occasionalhell.com/inf device/detail.php?recordID=Pear%20of%20Anguish>tortur e</a> device, I can't imagine the Victorians naming a ladies bits after that.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/08 @ 16:04

  • stuarty_2003 #120 4 years ago

    I'd like to point out that my 2nd gamertag, WankersChalice, has not been banned. For when you're batting one out and don't have a cum rag, use your hand.

  • Kryon #121 4 years ago

    From PearOfAnguish' link

    passive male homosexuals received the anal pear

    FACT!

  • PearOfAnguish #122 4 years ago

    Presumably an aggressive male homosexual delivered the anal pear.

  • DanWhitehead #123 4 years ago

    Are you sure?

    I was joking. The reality has shaken me to my core.

  • Razorus #124 4 years ago

    He was asking for trouble with a gamertag like that. What did he bloody expect? Dumbass.

  • DandyKong #125 4 years ago

    @Razorus:

    What a great contribution to the discussion. I'm sure you read all the posts in this thread, considered the issue from all angles and gave the topic some thought before posting this balanced, intelligent view on the issue.

  • Unclebenny #126 4 years ago

    Razorus- I refer you to the rest of this thread. Read. learn. Come back with something different.

  • TRACTORBOY1971 #127 4 years ago

    I am sorry, but that gamertag should not have been removed. I play on-line with my 6 year old son (mainly Halo, and he often wins), please no comments "why are you letting you 6 year old son play Halo", he can't play certain levels, I wont let him, but he plays on-line, with voice chat muted, due to people shouting obsenities, but he always plays on-line with me.

    My Son also knows that sometimes men love men and women love women, that does not make them any different to him or anyone else, he knows this because he was watching some soap, and there were 2 men getting married, he asked the questions and I explained.
    "theGAYERgamer", is not offensive, it is only offensive if you are against homosexuality, if you are, then you need to live in these times, not back in the 20's.
    I am an massive fan of Ipswich Town FC ( please no comments), and if a gamer had the tag "canaryGamer", I could say that offends me, because I don't like anything to do with Norwich City FC. but that would be stupid, exactly the same is said with the mentioned gamer tag, it is PC GONE MAD


  • Kryon #128 4 years ago

    "canaryGamer" sounds much more gay than "the GAYERgamer" ever could tbh ;-)

  • TRACTORBOY1971 #129 4 years ago

    @ Kryon

    I could make loads of comments about that, but I might offend some people in Norfolk

  • miiiguel #130 4 years ago

    This is not, though, a Live only thing:

    http://ne ws.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,39029...

  • DandyKong #131 4 years ago

    @ miiiguel

    That's pretty old news... After protests, Blizzard agreed that there was no harm in a GLBT friendly guild:
    [link url=htt p://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4700754.stm
    ]http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/47...[/link]

    Let's hope Microsoft come to their senses as well.

  • TRACTORBOY1971 #132 4 years ago

    @ Vanmunt

    Are you the other one, the one that sits in Churchmans (Sorry south stand)

  • cyber_nicco #133 4 years ago

    I have complained about tow gamertags since being online, and although I didn't look for them again, I would assume they were banned. Mostly racist stuff.

  • miiiguel #134 4 years ago

    It's a difficult subject. I mean, some comunities pratices incest, it's not illegal in countries like France or Germany (and England as well, I think), between two adults, but what would you think if you saw a GT "TheIncestGamer" ?

    What I mean is, it doesn't shock me at all if they keep sex out of Live. It doesn't bother me the other way too...

    multiple-edit: even crapier english...
    Edited by 3 at 15/05/08 @ 17:10

  • Kryon #135 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    It is definitely illegal in England. You can do time for it.

  • TRACTORBOY1971 #136 4 years ago

    @ miiiguel

    It is illegal in this country - incest that is, I beleive it is practised in Norfolk though, thats according to some ipswich town fans - only joking

  • miiiguel #137 4 years ago

    You're right it seems to be. Not in France though, nor in Germany.

  • DandyKong #138 4 years ago

    @ miiiguel:

    Did you just compare homosexuality with incest? Good one.

    Reminds me of those people who protested same-sex marriages by saying: "What if someone wants to marry their dog, should we accept that too"?

  • miiiguel #139 4 years ago

    No mate, I'm not. What I'm saying is, that as a member of society I can understand that there are people, due to religion, or personal beliefs who can think that way. And who am I to judge ? So, keep any sexual references out of Live (ludic networks) might be the way to go.

    I just came across an interview of a 2 half-brothers that love each other, and moved from Scotland to France because they want to live together, and... you know. What right do I have to say that a gay couple is ok, but this couple is not ok?
    http://ne ws.scotsman.com/scotland/Scots-...

    For me they are both ok. But I can understand that for some people it might be not (it seems for you that the Scot couple is not ok...). We don't live alone.
    Edited by 2 at 15/05/08 @ 17:22

  • NewbieZilla #140 4 years ago

    My opinion on his chosen gamertag is it is perfect if he wants to be the recipient of abuse. But, hey, this is xbox live we are talking about - any gamertag is fair game. If I knew the chap, I'd be advising against it for that reason alone. Don't think its worth banning him over. That said, they say they are very strict on gamertags... Well, if that were the case, they ought to prioritize the names that are far worse than this example.

    So, MS want a change of gamertag before they allow users with names they don't allow to something they will allow. I would hope that, them being the ones with the problem, that they would do this change of name for these people for free. It'd be sickening to think them actually forcing people to change names, and still charge the 800 points for the "privilige".

  • DanWhitehead #141 4 years ago

    Homosexuality is in no way comparable to incest. That's like saying we should ban french kissing because rape is against the law.

    For one thing, homosexuality isn't something people choose to do. It's something people just are, whether because of nature, nurture or some mixture of the two. Incest is a specific thing between two members of the same family. It's a horrible, lazy comparison and the only way it would work is if there was a large community of "incestualists" who are only attracted to their own relatives.

    The closest comparison to homosexuality is heterosexuality. That's the only one you need.

  • Unclebenny #142 4 years ago

    Incest is a little bit different (not getting off topic too much). As an couple who are related can produce genetically damged children (not in your example obv) who at best could have increased risk of genetic diseases and at worst could have serious mental difficulties. If incest is kept in the family (as it were/ no pun intended) and the children get involved in the same sort of thing then it only gets worse. So the children will suffer, which is why it is ileagal, I imagine. Although I'm not sure.
    I take your point though. How are we supposed to be sitting on our arses in our computer chairs judging these people?
    Maybe we should just say that anything that is insulting or graphic should be removed? Not descriptive words. Not incest/gay/straight/bisexual etc.

  • miiiguel #143 4 years ago

    My english is kinda poor, so I can't really express myself clearly. What I tried to say, was, and using the interview from with the scot chick, is that I couldn't care less if the two half-brothers love each other and want to live happy ever after. Same with gay couples or the Mormon communities (the ones with lots of wifes and stuff...), bisexuals, zoofiles or whatever. And I am not comparing!
    But..., what doesn't "offend" me might "offend" other people (Ratzinger and minions come to mind if he play Live...). And I don't have the power to judge neither, nor I want to.

  • NewbieZilla #144 4 years ago

    I think Xbox Live needs a true block button, as opposed to the non-functioning "avoid player".

  • redgiemental #145 4 years ago

    I just want to give DanW a round of applause from me



    thank you for your time

  • login_name #146 4 years ago

    @DanWhitehead

    Seems to me that you are making this more about the sexual orientation of the player. Why is that such a big deal to you? I don't know if this guy is gay or not (though I assume he is) but I personally think it's irrelevant. His tag can be and obviously has been viewed as a sexual reference and that is against Microsoft's naming policy. Whether homosexual or heterosexual in content, if you want to skirt the naming rules be prepared to face the consequences.

    Let us not make this a bigger issue than it really is, a naming violation on a video game console. I've heard of far more obscure names being banned, are you gonna campaign for them too, or is it only the minorities you get your knickers in a twist over?

    So please, step down from your soap box and save it for when it's necessary.

  • messiahtj #147 4 years ago

    Why they bothers about banning that gamertag??? We all already know that all guys playing in Live are gays :)

  • Kryon #148 4 years ago

    That's why messiahtj loves it there! :)

  • Feanor #149 4 years ago

    "Let us not make this a bigger issue than it really is, a naming violation on a video game console. I've heard of far more obscure names being banned, are you gonna campaign for them too, or is it only the minorities you get your knickers in a twist over?

    So please, step down from your soap box and save it for when it's necessary."

    Very well said.

  • bigbadbeasty #150 4 years ago

    "So please, step down from your soap box and save it for when it's necessary."

    So you ask him to get off his soap box, while you get on your own?? I'm sorry, but DanW's comment was spot on.

  • Daymare #151 4 years ago

    @login_name

    Oh, just come out of that closet already. We won't ban you here - we're reasonable, not at all puritanical, nor do we harbour any homophobic tendencies or allow homophobic people to enforce the rules;)

  • Unclebenny #152 4 years ago

    login_name-
    "Let us not make this a bigger issue than it really is, a naming violation on a video game console".
    Many of us have already pointed out that the name is not sexual so in truth has not broken microsoft rules. The problem we are facing is that of the idiots on live who would have reported this person because they don't like gays or parents who are being over reactionary to presence of the word gay and associating it with gay sex. Dan has already been through why this is and why hetero sexual people would probably not recieve the same treatment from their fellow players.
    "So please, step down from your soap box and save it for when it's necessary."
    If he cant comment on issues regarding homosexuality on this thread where can he?
    I think the point many of us are making is this a symptom of a much bigger problem and no. we probably wont solve it on this comments thread, but at least one person has had their mind opened a little bit. So lets not shout people down for having a discussiion.

  • captainrentboy #153 4 years ago

    It's a surprise no-one's complained about my Gamertag yet.
    I kind of regret letting my mate name me on Live, but I certainly aint fooking paying to change it.
    It's the same as my Eurogamer name BTW.

  • Razorus #154 4 years ago

    Alright, I was asked by a couple of people to contribute something a little more meaningful to the topic. I've read SOME of the posts here but got tired. Anyway, I have one for you. I previously said that naming your gamertag in such a way is bound to attract trouble and the guy in question was asking for it. I don't regret making that comment and I'm going to argue my point with a Phoenix Wright-esque animation.

    If you are gay, and a gamer, then I have no problem with you. I'm not homophobic or anything. But if you advertise your sexual orientation like that, you are obviously going to have to deal with assholes online. Why put yourself through the trouble? Cos you're "proud"? Don't be ridiculous. I'd rather have peace and quiet and a fun time on Live than have my pride attacked.

    It's the same if my gamertag was something with a religious faith or race put it. Let's say I'm Jewish and my gamertag reflects that. I don't NEED to tell people I'm Jewish. Not because I'm scared or have no pride. I just don't want people insulting me on Live! It's for your own good not to cause trouble for yourself. Therefore, the guy was an idiot and brought it on himself. The insulters are also to blame for being assholes in the first place, don't get me wrong, but I hope some of you see my point.

  • YourMessageHere #155 4 years ago

    This should never have been banned. Personally I don't particularly want to see references to sexuality, gay, straight or otherwise, in gamertags, not because I'm insulted but because I'm just not interested. Similarly I don't want to see references to sports, race or religion; when I'm playing a game online, this stuff is not important.

    People who feel their sexuality is their most defining characteristic are just the same as people who feel that their cars or their football team or their clothing labels are their most defining characteristics, in my opinion - very boring people, who if they were fictional characters critics would describe as "not fully rounded characters". (insert stock YMMV disclaimer here). I try to only talk about my passions when I know the other person wants to hear about it.

    @ the "Don't want to explain to my children" crowd.

    That is irresponsible parenting. Homosexuality is part of society. If you don't feel like explaining to your child that people whose skins are different colours from yours are just the same in all other ways because you can't be bothered, you're no different.
    Blaming the parents may be a cliche but there are people as irresponsible as that out there.


    @ DanWhitehead

    By and large, agreed and well said. I think we agree; however there's some stuff in one of your earlier posts that seems contradictory to your more eloquent later posts to me:

    "Society totally defines gay people by their sexual orientation..."

    How does one define gay other than with reference to sexual orientation? Unless you mean someone who supplies only this information, in which case what else do you have to go on?

    "...yet for them to use their sexual orientation as an open part of their public persona somehow makes them the problem."

    This is in my opinion just as problematic for people who use heterosexuality as an open part of their public persona. We call them 'sluts' or similar if they are female; due to sexism inherent in british culture, there's no universal male term that is as derogatoty, but some have suggested repurposing "stud" to do it. In both instances it's not nice behaviour. There seems to be a double standard at work if I am expected to celebrate gay and lesbian versions of this. Basically, I'm saying that sex-obsessed people who 'do their dirty laundry in public' do not deserve respect or celebration, irrespective of their preference of partner, because sex is and should remain a private matter.

    "Because to gay people (or black people, or whatever) the difference does matter, and it matters every single day."

    Plenty of people happen to be gay, in the midst of also being personally defined by their jobs, their class, their gender, their race, their interests, their family, their location and so on; to them, it only matters when they want it to. You'd never know they were gay unless they told you, just as you cannot know the skin colour of a person on the other end of a phone or the gender of an email's sender. Homosexuality may have been the target of hatred and discrimination for many years, but the point of liberalisation and tolerance is to allow the difference not to matter. To highlight difference is to invite others to consider it; consideration, especially in something that (relative to society) is so newly liberalised, leads inevitably to judgement, and not all of that will be favourable. While I fully believe everyone should be able to express their difference without being attacked for it, it's not really realistic to expect that to actually happen in the real world, especially not in a culture of conformity by peer pressure, as most human societies tend to be.

  • dk_rare #156 4 years ago

    Just waiting for the Sony announcement saying that Grant and his username are welcome to join PSN with a complimentary console =P 300 dollars to rub some messed up PR in MS's face is a small price to pay.

  • stallion185 #157 4 years ago

    Dan Whitehead is a champion!

  • CosmicGypsy #158 4 years ago

    I may not be a homosexual, but I do suffer from micro-penis syndrome and erectile dysfunction.

    As a result I find the name “MicroSoft” incredibly insulting.

    BAN THIS SICK FILTH

  • DanWhitehead #159 4 years ago

    How does one define gay other than with reference to sexual orientation? Unless you mean someone who supplies only this information, in which case what else do you have to go on?

    What I mean is that when someone chooses to supply that information (and, in doing so, risks a negative reaction) that person then becomes "a gay person". I'm talking in general terms, but a gay person in Britain today is still seen as a gay person first and foremost. That's the element of their person that sticks in the mind. If, like other estranged minority groups, a gay person then chooses to take pride in this element of themselves, to not try and hide it, that's a positive reaction to a negative stigma. I just think it's ludicrous that if someone says, quite calmly and simply, that they are gay that people still consider this to be "ramming it down their throat". Quite apart from the revealing use of imagery, it's an over-reaction caused by fear or unease in the other person, not by any flagrant exhibitionism on the part of the gay person.

    This is in my opinion just as problematic for people who use heterosexuality as an open part of their public persona. We call them 'sluts' or similar if they are female; due to sexism inherent in british culture, there's no universal male term that is as derogatoty, but some have suggested repurposing "stud" to do it. In both instances it's not nice behaviour. There seems to be a double standard at work if I am expected to celebrate gay and lesbian versions of this. Basically, I'm saying that sex-obsessed people who 'do their dirty laundry in public' do not deserve respect or celebration, irrespective of their preference of partner, because sex is and should remain a private matter.

    You're conflating "sexuality" with "sexual activity" again. Someone saying "I am gay" is not the same as a straight person sleeping around. Gay does not equal promiscuous, so the comparison doesn't hold. It goes back to what I said earlier about this inability to separate the act from the orientation. A person should be able to admit to liking their own gender without the immediate assumption being that they'll shag anyone. To bring it back to the subject at hand, if someone chooses to identify themselves as gay in their Gamertag, that is in no way an example of them being "sex obsessed" or doing their "dirty laundry" in public.

    Plenty of people happen to be gay, in the midst of also being personally defined by their jobs, their class, their gender, their race, their interests, their family, their location and so on; to them, it only matters when they want it to. You'd never know they were gay unless they told you, just as you cannot know the skin colour of a person on the other end of a phone or the gender of an email's sender.

    And plenty more people live in absolute terror that their sexual orientation will be discovered, and that they'll be subjected to verbal abuse or physical violence as a result. Outside of the more cosmopolitan urban areas, being openly gay in Britain - or the US, or anywhere - can still be a death sentence. The relative anonymity of Xbox Live may be a safe venue for someone to allow this part of themselves to be known, a pressure valve on something that's been secret for too long.

    A person simply shouldn't have to feel that this element of their personality is one that should be hidden, but neither should it be the only thing that people focus on. That's not up to gay people to sort out, it's up to society as a whole to move past this silly phobia that has been embedded in our culture through fear and superstition. What we have here is a situation where a society dominated by heterosexual attitudes actively shuns homosexuals while at the same time saying it's up to them to figure out how to fit in. Yet when they say "OK, I'm gay. Now let's get on with business" the reaction is similar to what's seen in this thread - "Why are you telling me this? Stop ramming it down my throat!". It's projecting a deep-seated social prejudice onto the minority group affected, and that's outrageously unfair.

    Homosexuality may have been the target of hatred and discrimination for many years, but the point of liberalisation and tolerance is to allow the difference not to matter. To highlight difference is to invite others to consider it; consideration, especially in something that (relative to society) is so newly liberalised, leads inevitably to judgement, and not all of that will be favourable. While I fully believe everyone should be able to express their difference without being attacked for it, it's not really realistic to expect that to actually happen in the real world, especially not in a culture of conformity by peer pressure, as most human societies tend to be.

    I agree that this is the situation as it stands, but things won't change if it isn't challenged. It shouldn't be a big deal for someone to mention that they are gay, any more than it should be a big deal for anyone else to mention their wife or girlfriend. Nor is it reasonable to accuse gay people who choose to take pride in the thing that has made them different of "ramming that difference down our throats". They didn't choose for that aspect of their life to take on such distorted importance, and we - meaning society in general - need to get past our kneejerk reactions and stop treating the mere existence of homosexuality as some sort of sordid netherworld that shouldn't be discussed in public.

    As I said before, it only stops being an issue when we stop making an issue out of it.
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/08 @ 09:20

  • RowdyBurns #160 4 years ago

    A very good point well made CosmicGypsy

    I thought I was the only person out there who felt deeply insulted by the Microsoft brand name and its obvious disdain for those of us with inferior members.

    Think we could start a class action lawsuit?

  • Kryon #161 4 years ago

    OGC

    /End of thread

  • miiiguel #162 4 years ago

    eh..., don't bash me too much, because, what do I know? Not much..., but I do think the gay community (and I know what I'm talking about... don't ask...), is a way too into that "proud" shit. They should try to see themselfs as a regular comunity, and not try to put a badge about their sexual preferences in everything they do (another thing imported from out friends yanks, me thinks...). It's a freaking gaming comunity, ffs..., leave penis, arses and vaginas out of it, is it that hard?

    Dan, you make all the sense in the world, but, shit..., do you really think Live is the proper place for someone to "come out" ? One has dozens of social networks "sex related" and "sociological related" and yet it must be on Live, a network completly asexual ?

    Another thing I kinda noted about gay people is that some of them aren't much liberals about other issues...
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/08 @ 11:08

  • DanWhitehead #163 4 years ago

    eh..., don't bash me too much, because, what do I know? Not much..., but I do think the gay community (and I know what I'm talking about... don't ask...), is a way too into that "proud" shit. They should try to see themselfs as a regular comunity, and not try to put a badge about their sexual preferences in everything they do (another thing imported from out friends yanks, me thinks...).

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You can't repeatedly ostracize people, and then condemn them when they form their own culture and/or social clique and take pride in it. In my experience, most gay people would love to see themselves as a "regular community" and have their sexuality not matter in the grand scheme of things. It's society in general that makes them not part of the regular community. I mean, look at the subject of this thread - just the use of the word "gay" in a Gamertag was enough to get someone banned from Xbox Live. How is this a fault of the gay community?

    There's only one reason this happened, and that's because people complained at the use of the word "gay". Microsoft can say that they'd ban anyone with a hetero equivalent Gamertag, but that's a lazy dodge. They'd never hear about it because nobody would complain about someone called, say, BabeLover23. Nobody would think twice about such a name. It's the gay that makes people throw up their hands and scream "INAPPROPRIATE!"

    It's a freaking gaming comunity, ffs..., leave penis, arses and vaginas out of it, is it that hard??

    I'll resist the urge to make a puerile joke about your final words, and just point out - again - that this guy did leave penises, arses and vaginas out of it. He didn't call himself PenisArseVagina. It's this assumption that "gay" can only mean "explicit gay sex" that is at the core of this whole silly mess.

  • Kryon #164 4 years ago

    To be fair though, the definition of the word 'gay' is "someone who practices homosexuality/ having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex" ... So by using the word 'gay', you do bring sex & sexuality into it, I do think most of Dan's points are right but I still see no need for any kind of sexualised gamer tags (no matter how tame it may be). I also do feel that a name like 'The Heterosexual Gamer' should & would have also been banned. I wanna play Halo, not worry about whether you like it up t3h bum or not! ;-)

  • miiiguel #165 4 years ago

    "Microsoft can say that they'd ban anyone with a hetero equivalent Gamertag, but that's a lazy dodge"
    Of course it's a lazy dodge, but what I'm trying to understand is: is this realy necessary? To make a comparision I kinda feel the same about the Danish cartoons mocking muslims, was that really necessary? We all kinda know in what world we live, and there are other stages/ways to make a point.

  • SpyroViper #166 4 years ago

    Time to ban all of the idiots with sexual, swear, or otherwise rude names written in 7334!!

  • SomaticSense #167 4 years ago

    DanWhitehead - ""There's only one reason this happened, and that's because people complained at the use of the word "gay". Microsoft can say that they'd ban anyone with a hetero equivalent Gamertag, but that's a lazy dodge. They'd never hear about it because nobody would complain about someone called, say, BabeLover23. Nobody would think twice about such a name. It's the gay that makes people throw up their hands and scream "INAPPROPRIATE!" "

    Exactly right. MS's PR over this just doesn't wash. It's the gay aspect that led to it getting banned, not the reference to sexuality. If it was, then how come I can't ever go online without seeing at least 3 gamertags with '69' referenced? Oh, unless of course there are an unusually high amount of 39 year olds online.....

    Kyron - "I also do feel that a name like 'The Heterosexual Gamer' should & would have also been banned."

    See above.

    No it wouldn't get banned, and no they don't. While there is the fact that straight people dont feel the need to shout about it anyway (but that's because society doesn't hold them in contempt like it does homosexuals) so thus wouldn't have a gamertag like that anyway. But there are plenty of gamertags online that do highlight that user's hetero preferences. Names like 'BabeLover69' which Dan mentioned are a good example.

    Edited by 1 at 16/05/08 @ 12:16

  • miiiguel #168 4 years ago

    I'm going to try to do a "TheHeterosexualerGamer", and I'm going to report "myself" with my "real" GT. I'll update this later to tell if it gets banned or not. Because, we really don't know do we? We can guess and speculate, but we don't know for sure.

  • Kryon #169 4 years ago

    @SomaticSense

    OK, well I can't speculate as to whether 'heterosexual gamer' would have been banned (I believe it should be though). Your comparison regarding the number 69 is flawed though, it's not like that particular sexual position is reserved for straight people only. It could just as much be considered a gay sex act as a straight one, so claiming that 'oh look what they let straight ppl get away with" really doesn't wash in this regard.

    "(but that's because society doesn't hold them in contempt like it does homosexuals) "

    I don't hold anyone who is homosexual in contempt (well, not because of their sexuality, at any rate) and neither does anyone I know, you sure you're not living in the 50's?

  • YourMessageHere #170 4 years ago

    You're conflating "sexuality" with "sexual activity" again. Someone saying "I am gay" is not the same as a straight person sleeping around. Gay does not equal promiscuous, so the comparison doesn't hold. It goes back to what I said earlier about this inability to separate the act from the orientation. A person should be able to admit to liking their own gender without the immediate assumption being that they'll shag anyone. To bring it back to the subject at hand, if someone chooses to identify themselves as gay in their Gamertag, that is in no way an example of them being "sex obsessed" or doing their "dirty laundry" in public.

    I conflate nothing. Someone saying they are gay is not the same as someone sleeping around, and gay does not equal promiscuous, this is true and I've argued this point with homophobes in the past. But someone going to such lengths to say they are gay as to make it part of their name is not the same as someone happening to mention it in conversation. It is not unreasonable therefore to conclude that their sexuality is of paramount importance to them. If a heterosexual person was to make mention of their sexual preference with such prominence, the natural thing for others to do is to conclude that they also have a vastly inflated sense of the importance of sexuality; practically speaking, they are labelled 'sluts' or 'studs' or (insert own phrase here if preferred). Gay and lesbian people who do this are of course fully within their rights, but most people do not like or respect heterosexual people who do this, so why should gay people expect to be treated or viewed differently, even by liberal-minded people such as myself? Do they want equality, which is reasonable, or special rules just for them, which is not?

    And plenty more people live in absolute terror that their sexual orientation will be discovered, and that they'll be subjected to verbal abuse or physical violence as a result. Outside of the more cosmopolitan urban areas, being openly gay in Britain - or the US, or anywhere - can still be a death sentence. The relative anonymity of Xbox Live may be a safe venue for someone to allow this part of themselves to be known, a pressure valve on something that's been secret for too long.

    This is pretty silly really. If you live somewhere full of people who you think hate you, living in secrecy and fear praying for change is not the only option. Change yourself and fit in, develop the strength of character to deal with prejudice, or move to somewhere more tolerant - these are all perfectly viable alternatives, and much more realistic than expecting hundreds of years of general popular prejudice to go away because the law now recognises that it's not fair. As many others have said, it's patently obvious that XBL is hardly the place to go to find a safe venue to revel in one's membership of a minority.

    They didn't choose for that aspect of their life to take on such distorted importance

    In the sense of the importance society generally puts on it, true enough; in the sense of its importance to them, yes they did. I happen to be heterosexual but I choose not to call myself TheStraighterGamer because my sexual preferences are not of any real importance to anyone except me and my girlfriend.

    I had a sociology module of my degree last year that was taken by an openly gay lecturer, who worked his sexuality into every lecture at least half a dozen times. The lecture on theories of sexuality was enhanced by this, but the fact he made constant mention of his sexuality was incredibly distracting in the other nine lectures, just as my history lecturer's constant references to Armenia might reflect her personal specialism and enthusiasm but in a lecture on world history, it was neither relevant nor illustrative to continually refer to a tiny country most people would have trouble finding on a map. By contrast, my post-war Japanese society lecturer is much more pleasing to listen to and learn from because she only lets her own research into Japanese feminism into the limelight in the one lecture in which it is relevant. More personal restraint and less wanton enthusiasm is better for all. Don't make something an issue and it won't be one.


    What we have here is a situation where a society dominated by heterosexual attitudes actively shuns homosexuals while at the same time saying it's up to them to figure out how to fit in. Yet when they say "OK, I'm gay. Now let's get on with business" the reaction is similar to what's seen in this thread - "Why are you telling me this? Stop ramming it down my throat!". It's projecting a deep-seated social prejudice onto the minority group affected, and that's outrageously unfair.

    A personal analogy: I am an anime fan in a country where most people think anime is either kids cartoons or cartoon porn, if they even recognise the word. To paraphrase, what we have here is a situation where a society dominated by live-action entertainment actively shuns anime fans while at the same time saying it's up to them to figure out how to fit in.

    What's wrong here? Who is it up to if not me to decide how to fit in? I don't talk about anime unless a person seems to be interested in it; I know it's not something everyone likes or is interested in and some even have strong feelings about it.
    On a purely technical level, without being at all judgemental, homosexuality is deviant, just as my enthusiasm for Japanese animation is deviant, and deviance is always something that inspires strong emotions. People ought to have complete freedom of expression, but the is-ought gap has been well known for hundreds of years. You can debate whether it ought to be, but it is human nature to establish a norm, form ingroups and outgroups, and judge people relatively, and it always will be. What is needed is for ingroups to simply tolerate outgroups irrespective of their personal judgements, and for outgroups to enjoy their diversity in such a way as to not provoke others to abandon that tolerance once it is established.

    This incident is not a provocation, I hasten to add, but in such a complex society where life consists of so many things at once it's easy to see this as one if one wishes, especially in as inherenly combative a context as online gaming.

  • Unclebenny #171 4 years ago

    YourMessageHere
    I'm supposed to be revising so I'll not write too much.
    "someone going to such lengths to say they are gay as to make it part of their name is not the same as someone happening to mention it in conversation."
    I really dont see why so many people are suggesting the person in question went to "great lengths" to say they are gay. It seems to me they are a person who consider themselves a "gamer" (whatever your definition of that word is). This is a much maligned part of society. Being gay in this context is even more unusual. So I f i was in that situation and being promted for a way to represent myself on screen I cant see why that wouldn't be a logical name choice, sexual debate completely aside. The same logic applies to females on live. Being a female gamer itself is interesting enough to make it part of your name.

    "If you live somewhere full of people who you think hate you, living in secrecy and fear praying for change is not the only option. Change yourself and fit in, develop the strength of character to deal with prejudice, or move to somewhere more tolerant - these are all perfectly viable alternatives, and much more realistic than expecting hundreds of years of general popular prejudice to go away because the law now recognises that it's not fair."

    I'm afraid I disagree mostly. I agree on the point that xbox live is not the best place to make any kind of stand on social issues. However it is a safe place to do it. No one can beat you up on live. If fitting in was as easy you make it seem, maybe we wouldn't be having this dicussion. Telling someone who is different and scared to reveal their own indivuality to "change yourself and fit in" does not sit well with me.
    Moving somewhere more tolerant is a ridiculous statement in an otherwise well written sensible post. Life is not so easy that we can move away from trouble whenever it appears. what if gayergamer is at school? Hardly the most tolerant of places and then its not like it is his descion to move away if the oppurtunity came up.
    Overall,I'm really struggling to see why people have such a problem with even just a statement of sexual orientation. Fair enough you may feel it is irrelevant but if we do not challenge the norm (in this case heterosexuality and faer of homosexuals) nothing will ever change.
    You use anime as an example. Would you also insist that someone with the name animefan24 change their name if they recieve abuse. They have forced their interests on others after all.
    There seems an air of some posts here that being gays fine but abuse is a given if you make too much of a show of it. This is what we need to challenghe in society and telling an individual to stay quiet is no way to move things forward. I'm not saying xbox live will chnage society for the better but we cant chnage anything if we all stay quiet.

    I'd like to ask everyone on here to follow me in a assault on the ignorant on live. Whenever I hear someone being unfairly abused on live I try and back that person up. Even if they have a go at me too I think its worth it to let people know not everyone on live is an idiot. Perhaps if we all make sure the stupid minortiy are not the loud minority we could make a little bit of a difference, if only a little.

  • Les #172 4 years ago

    "Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things have no place on Xbox Live and are in violation of our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct."

    And thus you ban a gamertag that alludes to being gay... What a fucking bunch of hypocrits.

  • bonker #173 4 years ago

    Seems it's only a matter of time until my tag gets the hammer too then :(

  • bonker #174 4 years ago

    "How does one define gay other than with reference to sexual orientation?

    I'd have thought that most people (UK guys at least) use the term 'gay' to mean crap/rubbish/weak rather than in any homosexual context - the guy could just have been touting his rubbishness at games :)

  • InsoFox #175 4 years ago

    This kinda crap that goes on on live is why I completely lost the taste for multiplayer gaming. Actually, GTAIV hasn't exactly freakin' helped here. On the one hand they try to make it a much more mature, believable story line, and on the other hand every single depiction of gay people in it makes them a complete screaming queen. Damnit.

  • YourMessageHere #176 4 years ago

    Unclebenny:

    They went to great lengths because they used it as their name, given free choice of anything they could think of. By supplying two facts, his choice of name and preference in games, TheGayerGamer is essentially inviting whatever random people he plays alongside to notice his sexuality. The whole point is that they are labelling themselves as gay, which is basically and inseperably an issue of sexuality - you cannot therefore sensibly leave that debate aside.

    No-one can beat you up on live, but we're talking about psychological repression here. The lack of physical harm is not really an issue when you are immersing yourself in an arena where the label of your minority seems to be the most common term of contempt and derision, and the use seems more frequent and aggressive. I'd be lying if I called that a safe environment.

    I didn't mean to make it seem I thought it was easy to fit in, or any other alternative, I simply said it succinctly as my post was massive enough as it was. I've never fitted in and never tried to; I prefer to stand out somewhat and cope with the consequences, and it took me many years and much pain to get to where I am now. This person is clearly not scared to reveal their own individuality as they are revealing their sexuality to the entirety of XBL. If you are scared to do so, that therefore must mean you do not - you try to fit in, in which case it's not unreasonable to suggest continuing this as a course of action.

    I try to find environments where I am happy. Moving house, or continually tolerating an environment of constant threat that is not of your making: which is more achievable to you? I know when I move abroad in September, that will happily solve the problem of whether to wait for the council to eventually evict the man upstairs, who has been banging on the floor with a hammer and using my flat as his personal subwoofer at all hours since he moved in a year ago. My flatmate and I have been contemplating moving because of this. Not entirely unrelated, or unreasonable as a response, I think.

    And if he's at school at an age when his peers are likely to damage him for being gay, IMO he shouldn't be on XBL.

    Fair enough you may feel it is irrelevant but if we do not challenge the norm (in this case heterosexuality and faer of homosexuals) nothing will ever change...There seems an air of some posts here that being gays fine but abuse is a given if you make too much of a show of it. This is what we need to challenghe in society and telling an individual to stay quiet is no way to move things forward. I'm not saying xbox live will chnage society for the better but we cant chnage anything if we all stay quiet.

    Challenging the norm is both useless and pointless. Norms, I should qualify, describe states ("I am gay/straight";), not attitudes ("being gay is bad/OK";). Unless the majority become homosexual, it will never be the norm, as it is inherently outside the norm, being as it is defined in opposition to the heterosexual norm. As I said, the norm needs to become less important - people who adhere to the norm need to accept that not adhering to it is perfectly OK, and people who don't need to accept that their difference from the norm may be important to them, but others more than likely don't want or need to know about it.

    Change is happening, it just isn't going to happen fast. The vast majority of homophobes will always be homophobes until they die - it's not something that you can simply decide to change your mind about. Look at female suffrage. The suffragettes achieved votes for women, at which point women simply began quietly voting alongside men, in the midst of all the complaints of the conservative mindset. In a generation or two, the complaints were gone with the complainers. Now we take gender-blind suffrage as moot. Homosexuality is fully legal, and gays and lesbians are to my knowledge afforded all the legal protections heterosexual people enjoy. At this point, highlighting one's alternative sexuality achieves nothing meaningful.

    You use anime as an example. Would you also insist that someone with the name animefan24 change their name if they recieve abuse. They have forced their interests on others after all.

    No, I'm not saying choice of name forces interests on others, that's a semantic debate that's not really relevant. If I were in charge of XBL I'd not regulate names and not allow kids under 16, and make damn sure that the T&Cs said that if you are offended by someone else's username, it's your problem, and if you get abuse because of your own, it's also your problem. But that's me.

    Anyhow, that's not the point of that analogy; I merely meant that analogy to say that if you do not draw attention to an aspect of your personality, for example by not using it as the basis of your online name, you will avoid any abuse that stems from those who hate that aspect; alternatively, if you do, that is your choice, and how you deal with it is no-one's problem but your own.

    All that being said, I'd totally agree with your attitude toward unfair abusive behaviour in online gaming. You can't change someone's mind for them, but you can make damn sure they know their behaviour is seen as unacceptable by others.

  • SomaticSense #177 4 years ago

    Kyron - "OK, well I can't speculate as to whether 'heterosexual gamer' would have been banned (I believe it should be though). Your comparison regarding the number 69 is flawed though, it's not like that particular sexual position is reserved for straight people only. It could just as much be considered a gay sex act as a straight one, so claiming that 'oh look what they let straight ppl get away with" really doesn't wash in this regard."

    Erm, it's not flawed at all.

    MS stated that they will ban any gamertag that mentions sex, yet the fact you see so many tags with '69' completely proves that they don't. Sexual preference has nothing to do with that (as rightfully it shouldnt). My point was that if they really did enforce this 'no sex because of the minors' rule, then we wouldnt be seeing them would we? No, instead they just ban the one that mentions a homosexual preference....

    "I don't hold anyone who is homosexual in contempt (well, not because of their sexuality, at any rate) and neither does anyone I know, you sure you're not living in the 50's?"

    I wasn't saying you were, nor anyone that you know. But even in the 21st century homosexuality isn't accepted or viewed in the same light by society in general as heterosexuality.
    You hear all the time about gay men/women still finding it hard to tell their parents and friends for the first time, and what about all the anti-gay preaching coming from the various religions in the world? It is definitely miles better than back then, yes, but it certainly is not anywhere near being viewed a part of the same status as being straight by society as a whole.

  • orenishii #178 4 years ago

    Knowing the mind set of a large number of users of XBOX live this guy was gonna get murdered. I once changed the colour of my Spartan to all pink with a emblem of a set of Cherry red lips and a cowboy hat, specifically to wind up our friends across the pond. It had the desired effect, if I had a quid for everytime I was called a faggot/homo etc. I would now be a very rich man by now.

  • dr.glyndwr #179 4 years ago

    They've banned my gamertag too
    [link url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/richardgaywood/2510802990/
    ]    http://ww w.flickr.com/photos/richardgayw...[/link]
    what makes this funny is that Richard Gaywood is just my real name. Guess I'd better go change it, clearly it's offensive to small animals, children, and right thinking folk everywhere.