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Konami's Fallujah game under fire News
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Robert Purchese
Soldiers, fathers and peace groups have spoken out about Konami's controversial Six Days in Fallujah videogame, which retells a key battle of the 2004 Iraq conflict through the eyes of US marines.
"Considering the enormous loss of life in the Iraq War, glorifying it in a videogame demonstrates very poor judgement and bad taste," Reg Keys, whose son Thomas was killed by a mob in Iraq while serving as a Red Cap (military policeman), told the Daily Mail. "It is particularly crass when you consider what actually happened in Fallujah."
"These horrific events should be confined to the annuls of history, not trivialised and rendered for thrill-seekers to play out, over and over again, for ever more. Even worse, it could end up in the hands of a fanatical young Muslim and incite him to consider some form of retaliation or retribution. He could use it to get worked up and want to really finish the game.
"I will be calling for this game to be banned, if not worldwide then certainly in the UK," he said.
Tim Collins OBE, a former colonel famed for an eve-of-battle speech in 2003, agreed.
"It's much too soon to start making videogames about a war that's still going on, and an extremely flippant response to one of the most important events in modern history," he said. "It's particularly insensitive given what happened in Fallujah, and I will certainly oppose the release of this game."
Best-selling author and former SAS soldier Andy McNab, however, defended Six Days in Fallujah. War, he said, has been peddled as entertainment by the media for years.
Furthermore, he argued that the UK does not understand the Fallujah conflict in the same way as the Americans - a nation that lost "more soldiers [in Fallujah] than the whole of the British Army has in Iraq and Afghanistan combined".
"Culturally it is totally different in the US," McNab - a man with the powers of Jack Bauer and Ray Mears combined - told TechRadar.
"In America it is not as if this is 'shock horror' - everybody has been watching it on the news for the last seven years. The hypocrisy is in the fact that when the media wants a 'shock horror' story they will focus on something like this.
"In America a 90-year-old and a 12-year-old will know what happened at Fallujah. It's on the TV, there are books about it. The game is a natural extension to that; it is folklore. The only difference being that it is presented in a different medium.
"If the game stands up and offers Americans those soldiers' stories, then, why not?" he said.
Plus, added McNab, America's Army has been simulating real-life events for years, and really this is no different to "killing Nazis or drug dealers" in other games; games that he has seen soldiers playing on laptops while on tour in Basra. "Culturally they are more up for it," he concluded.
In direct contrast to his approach, however, was the Stop the War Coalition peace group, who said glorifying the Fallujah "massacre" is "sick".
"The massacre carried out by American and British forces in Fallujah in 2004 is amongst the worst of the war crimes carried out in an illegal and immoral war," spokesperson Tansy E Hoskins told TechRadar. "It is estimated that up to 1,000 civilians died in the bombardment and house-to-house raids carried out by invading troops. So many people were killed in Fallujah that the town's football stadium had to be turned into a cemetery to cope with all the dead bodies.
"There is nothing to celebrate in the death of people resisting an unjust and bloody occupation. To make a game out of a war crime and to capitalise on the death and injury of thousands is sick.
"There will never be a time when it is appropriate for people to play at committing atrocities," added Tansy. "The massacre in Fallujah should be remembered with shame and horror not glamorised and glossed over for entertainment."
Predictable arguments from different sectors, perhaps. But what does Konami have to say for itself?
Vice president Anthony Crouts told the Wall Street Journal that Konami was "not trying to make a social commentary".
"We're not pro-war," he added. "We're not trying to make people feel uncomfortable. We just want to bring a compelling entertainment experience... At the end of the day, it's just a game."
Six Days in Fallujah is in development at Atomic Games and will be released next year in the US. There are no platforms mentioned yet, but PC, 360 and PS3 look likely. UK plans are yet to be announced.
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RedSparrows
08/04/09 @ 08:31
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I hope this isn't the new racism 'debate'.
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Done right (and it's Konami, so who knows?) this could actually be an enriching experience. Don't make it entertainment in arcade sense, but obviously entertaining enough that you want to play it, whilst also showing the horrors of war and you'll give people a better understanding of what it's actually like to be there.
If that gives us a generation of young men and women who aren't so willing to go to war just because they're told to, then we might not have people dying in real life in countries that have never posed any threat to us. |
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And yet Call of Duty 4 gets away with it because it only takes place in Saudi Generica, "The Middle East"? Show these guys the AC130 level and see how they react.
Well, Call of Duty 4 skips that political hot-potato by skipping the issue of the wars legality etc etc. Plus the AC130 level is in Russia anyways. The Fallujah game, in any case, seems like a massive mistake whose only justification (that I can see) is perhaps appealing to US patriotism. Perhaps more than any other case, that battle (or incident, or seige, or whatever the appropriate term is) stands as an example of a waste of human life for very little tactical gain. |
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"Are these the same wise Americans, who at times didn't know that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were two different people?!"
Christ, I didn't realise that. There are quite a few people that actually believe Saddam and Bin Laden were friends and allies (but then George Bush did voice that particular lie on numerous occasions). In fact I believe they met once, had opposing views, and never had contact again. I think they fucking hated each others guts, in fact - Saddams Iraq was one of the more secular countries in the middle east until he fell out with the US and had to court more Arab support. This 2004 poll (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/... gives a whopping 57% believing Iraq was directly involved in 9/11 (and 59% that the world was 'for' the war)... particularly (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/16/dail... fox news viewers. Which is all a sidepoint, anyways. |
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If they want it to be based on 'reality' then for every kill, every shot or toss of a grenade into a house; name every fighter (US, Iraqi or otherwise), civilian or child who died - have pop-ups show photos of their families left behind, explain why there were in the city at the time... that would make it a useful historical document, anything else is just war-wanking
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metalangel
08/04/09 @ 09:45
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And yet Call of Duty 4 gets away with it because it only takes place in Saudi Generica, "The Middle East"? Show these guys the AC130 level and see how they react.
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Petulant_Radish
08/04/09 @ 09:52
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“It's no different (sic) than making a game where you play as Hitler killing the Jews.”
It is a little different that the planned genocide of the European Judean peoples, I’m not condoning it by any means as lots of innocent people died in the bombing, but then lots of innocent people die in bombings in every war, comparing it to the holocaust on the other hand is what you might call a knee jerk reaction. |
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@Coin-Op
"It's no differernt than making a game where you play as Hitler killing the Jews." It's not the same thing at all. Your analogy would've worked better if you'd said German soldiers killing Jews instead but even then it's flawed. It depends on the context of how this is handled - the involvement of real life soldiers from Fallujah could be the deciding factor. |
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achievement unlocked: pregnant woman shot in head
sounds like the media passing judgement without playing it again. Yes its based on grusome reality, but Konami isnt to blaime for that, its ok for hollywood to make a film about the same subject but not a game, riiiight. and the above achievement doesnt exist... but from how people are reacting you'd think it did. |
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Petulant_Radish
08/04/09 @ 10:01
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@ Coin-op
Oh I see, you’re just being the Daily Mail, how very amusing. Chortle chortle. |
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 10:05
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I wonder if this game will allow the player to control combatants on both sides? It would be a bold move, and perhaps challenge the idea of "good and bad" that some people entertain. I tend to figure that most combatants in war have more in common with each other than with anyone else on the planet at that specific time, and showing that in a game would be a powerful thing to do manybe.
Games frequently feature armed combat, some instances of which are based on real campaigns. So it is a little rich to be outraged at this specific game on that basis. However, balance is important. In particular when dealing with events that are still effectively taking place. When current voters will decide future policy based on what they believe to be true, games like this perhaps bear a responsibility to give a balanced picture of "what is true". WW2 is over, so small deviations from fact in WW2 games are unlikely to have any particular repercussions. Lets be in no doubt that there are people out there who will take events portrayed in this game as fact, and surely everyone would agree that people should have as true a view of the world as possible (the factual events at least, as the conclusions they may draw are highly subjective). Anyway, no doubt views on "both sides" will be drawn into extreme opposition, removing all intelligence and reason from the debate, leaving everyone angry but with no lessons learned.
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I never try to debate with gamers as I find them fucking insane usually, I blame years of sitting in front of a TV killing things. So that's all I'm going to say on the matter. It's only a matter of time before we all blow ourselves up anyway as we trivialize war to the point where we play war on our TV's just to relax. We are fucked and we deserve to be fucked as we are nothing but blood thirsty savages who no longer know the difference between good and evil or right and wrong.
You ARE Anne Diamond, and I claim my £5 |
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pantherboy
08/04/09 @ 10:06
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Vice president Anthony Crouts told the Wall Street Journal that Konami was "not trying to make a social commentary".
That’s a shame, id like to see games that were as powerful and moving as some of the Vietnam War (protest?) movies. It may be controversial with some but at least it will be something. |
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 10:12
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@AliRay
"Are these the same wise Americans, who at times didn't know that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were two different people?!" Christ, I didn't realise that. There are quite a few people that actually believe Saddam and Bin Laden were friends and allies (but then George Bush did voice that particular lie on numerous occasions). In fact I believe they met once, had opposing views, and never had contact again. Part of the whole "everyone who is my enemy must be united against me" propaganda that was so popular in US politics until late. It is important I think though, to not turn this into some kind of xenophobic anti-US issue. There are plenty of very smart people in the US, and there are plenty of highly stupid elsewhere in the world. The key problem in the US is not the people but the way that information is controlled and distributed (as this game may perhaps show). @Coin-Op Your post is so deep in irony, I'm surprised it doesn't need a snorkel mask and flippers. |
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 10:13
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What the hell is going on with your posting system EG? Posts are turning up in completely the wrong order.
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YAY! Can't wait to play "Bomb Gaza 2: Return to Jenin"
Though to be fair, I'd have to play the game ("Fallujah")first, to make up my own mind about it. Though the Bomb Gaza game would play like shit, bomb bomb bomb a confined terrain with little to no distinction between civilian or non-civilian targets for almost a month. It would get very repetetive, although you could enjoy it more if they introduced some propaganda elements, like block the journalists from covering the conflict bonus after you've completed the game once. |
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hiddenranbir
08/04/09 @ 10:17
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Where is the Abu Ghraib?
Obviously the only way people will understand is if they take part in a virtual environment. |
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hen will stupid, thick fucks like herself realise that the vast majority of enemy combatants in Iraq are foreign Mujahids?
When it's true, presumably. I'm not wanting to get in a debate over the war (or subsequent insurgency) itself, and figures vary, but the insurgency is overwhelmingly Iraqi - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew... (remember the presence of domestic militias allied to various sects, as well as the hardcore Ba'ath loyalists) EDIT; links are broken. They're all stolen from sources here, anyways - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insur... I can't remember the name of a CIA survey which supports these figures, unfortunately. Sadly, you seem to be the polar-opposite of the ultra-naive Tansy, replacing a simplistic 'freedom-fighter' view with what can best be termed a Bush-ite, 'all evil terrorists out to destroy us' view. Neither is correct nor plausible.
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 10:28
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@Burzum09
I say again, "Anyway, no doubt views on "both sides" will be drawn into extreme opposition, removing all intelligence and reason from the debate, leaving everyone angry but with no lessons learned." /sigh Did it ever coccur to anyone that "everyone" in Iraq doesn't share the same agenda? And that indeed it is a complex situation that takes reason and thought to even understand. If was as bloody simple as many seem to think it is, it would be considerably easier to resolve the problems. |
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RedSparrows
08/04/09 @ 10:37
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coin-op.
There [i]is[/i] a difference between murder in combat/after combat, and industrialised genocide. Both are utterly morally foul. |
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Anthony_UK
08/04/09 @ 10:54
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My initial reaction is WTF, for the makers of Metal Gear & Pro Evo to go in this direction really does surprise me.
Thinking about it though. Imagine if they made something along the lines of COD4 (bare with me) kept the triggered events, but slowed the pace right down to a more realistic pace & made the game as brutal & realistic as possible Civillian deaths, friendly fire etc, while at the same time showing and relationship between soliders and what makes them tick. But then half way through or on alternate levels, doing the exact same thing from the Iraqi insurgent etc viewpoint. If they could pull it off, in my opinion that would be pretty amazing....... |
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Firstly, i am very much anti war and think this game shouldnt be made. Cause its an illegal war, loads of innocents where killed and they could do the same game but base it on false events or another war.
Second, surely the gameplay will be absolutly shit considering the benefits the americans had against the iraqis. |
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If it's a game based on the facts, then there is no arguement against it.
Fact is fact, and all the game will do is educate people in what really happend. as so clearly this comments section has shown, people need educating in the Iraq war. I'm no expert, but imo the war was foolish and a pointless waste of life. I'm a big fan of killing pixels, no matter how realistic, but killing innocent REAL people is another matter. My advice is don't blame devs for making a game based on a horrific factual event, blame Bush and his gimp Blair for the ACTUAL horrific event that took place. Not to mention the driving forces behind their decision and the decision of terrorists to attack the west. Religion and money are the two main evils in the world. Between them they have caused more pain and suffering than any other forces known to man. My problem with both money and religion is that at the end of the day they are both fictitious quantities fed to you from birth to control the way you act and how you live your life. When the only thing that should govern your life is yourself. /Rant over |
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notmyrealname
08/04/09 @ 11:45
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Nerds In Action: when politics and games collide.
Gotta love t3h 1nt3rW3bZ *edit* Dan get off your high horse. Any war is foul and making games in which you are massacring thousands of arabs/russians/germans/africans/anyethnicgroupbesidesyanks is all equally good or bad from a moral/racial standpoint. If the armchair combatants here say stuff like: ''normal combat is somehow less bad'' it always makes me chuckle. As if there is still comparrisons to be made on such a level of killing. That this game is based on an actual massacring of a town in Iraq including v. cruel bombs and happened a few years closer, makes it only marginally worse. The pro war message is evident in this game just as much as it is in the next fps/rts whatever. Either you condemn all the forms of game warfare and virtual killing, including all the other media that profit from war btw, or just accept it and let your wallet speak with.. deafening silence!!!! Since it's konami it will probably be something with girly men with spikey neon coloured hair anyway. Out of interest: is this more on EG's radar because ''great'' brittain was in Iraq as well? It's more important when the english do it, rite?:P
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Is there a black hawk down game, that was pretty informative,
I was very amazed at the end when they showed the estimated death toll, 50 marines to about 1000 somalis. Another thing what is that game that they are playing in the kingdom (jennifer Garner,jamie foxx), where the kids are killing american soldiers in a pc fps. This all reminds of Battlefield 2 I thought was an excellent game. The politics of the game are probably not as simple as some people seem to think, I will have to look up wiki.
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davymackie
08/04/09 @ 11:52
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i think theres an unwritten rule which allows you to make a movie, documentary, tv show, GAME as long as it was atleast 2years ago.
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@kangarootoo
@Coin-Op Your post is so deep in irony, I'm surprised it doesn't need a snorkel mask and flippers. I was going to post something along those lines but yours is far, far better than mine would have been. So I'm just going to say: "LOL! Yeah! LOL!" @DanWhitehead That's a much better comparison indeed, hopefully it brings it home to more people. Although to be honest, I think that many people will consider Bloody Sunday as much "ancient history" as WWII. |
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 12:04
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DanWhitehead
08-Apr-09 13:13:28 "The closest comparison I can think of would be for someone to say they were going to make a game set in Derry..." Dan comes from the future to spread wise words. |
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DanWhitehead
08/04/09 @ 12:13
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It is a little different that the planned genocide of the European Judean peoples, I’m not condoning it by any means as lots of innocent people died in the bombing, but then lots of innocent people die in bombings in every war, comparing it to the holocaust on the other hand is what you might call a knee jerk reaction.
Comparisons to the holocaust are way off, but what happened in Fallujah wasn't a normal combat situation either. The closest comparison I can think of would be for someone to say they were going to make a game set in Derry, based around the events of Bloody Sunday. If such a game were made with the cooperation of British soldiers, and only allowed you to "see" events from their perspective as you shot civilian "insurgents", I think people would be better able to understand how problematic this idea is.
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whywhywhy19
08/04/09 @ 12:50
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As part of an extended April Fool's day Eurogamer will be bringing you comments from the future.
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PlugMonkey
08/04/09 @ 13:33
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"Are these the same wise Americans, who at times didn't know that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were two different people?!"
Christ, I didn't realise that. And now you do because you read it on an internet forum? |
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Kenshin001
08/04/09 @ 14:44
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The closest comparison I can think of would be for someone to say they were going to make a game set in Derry, based around the events of Bloody Sunday. If such a game were made with the cooperation of British soldiers, and only allowed you to "see" events from their perspective as you shot civilian "insurgents", I think people would be better able to understand how problematic this idea is.
I can't see it as being problematic unless people are willing to ignore the type of militants involved in Fallujah. They were not freedom fighters in any way, they were supporters of a terrifying barbaric regime that had gassed Kurds and tortured and murdered thousands of people. The whole events of Fallujah pretty much began with a protest, one that happened to be on Saddam Hussein's birthday.
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kangarootoo
08/04/09 @ 15:00
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@PlugMonkey
YES!! Well, not really. I suppose what I mean was "it never occured to me people might be so distant from current affairs, but now I think on it its not such a surprise I suppose". @Kenshin001 I believe the protest you are referring to was in response to the killing of civilians by US troops. There is also disagreement over whether US troops were fired upon from within a crowd, before returning fire into said crowd. Although insurgents were responsible for attacking the convoy, it wasn't exactly an isolated incident with no previous history or build up. AGAIN I say, the subject is rather more complex than simply saying whether or not the antagonists were GOOD or BAD people. It is of couse possible that NORMAL people under extreme pressure did BAD things on both sides. Has anyone considered that? |
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Oh so its ok to retell WW2 (which you won ofcourse) hundreds of times , but on wars that you are losing its not right? quote number 3 or 4 says that this game will make som emuslims go crazy... in the sense that they'll kill htemselves... yeah right... It's the news and the police that cause them to mess around. Mans can't even walk out in the street bein asian and with a beard nowadays, even the police give dirty looks, it's as if they's rather everyone in the whole country (UK) to drink and smoke themselves to death.
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