Saint's Row

By John Walker Published 25 July, 2006

We talk to lead developer Stockman, and take stock, man. Ha.

"Our development team, when we saw the various GTA games coming out, thought Rockstar had created a genre."

As we approach the autumn, Saint's Row creator Volition isn't going to be the only development team making this argument. With Vivendi's Scarface also due out in a couple of months, and also looking remarkably similar to the long-running law-breaking series, upbeat violence in freeform cities is going to be a recurring theme. Perhaps it really is a genre. Perhaps.

As well as getting our hands on some all-but-finished code of Saint's Row to play over the weekend, we also got a chance to sit down with the game's project lead, Christopher Stockman. As it turns out, Saint's Row's gang focus has nothing to do with San Andreas, and much more to do with what they saw was missing from GTA as a whole.

"A couple of years ago, when thinking about future projects and what we wanted to do, we came up with the idea of a gang-based game," says Stockman. "We did some research into the GTA series and other games like it, and we saw that there was a common complaint against the genre. As freeform as it was, all the side-games didn't really matter too much."

So instead, Volition has created a game that puts the emphasis on those side games. "What mattered the most in the GTA-style games was the storyline, and going from A to Z. But people loved goofing off, it was something they really enjoyed. It was something we really enjoyed. So we took those ideas, and then made those things matter. We created thirteen of what we call 'Activities'."

These Activities are similar in some ways to the side missions in the GTA series, but this time with a purpose. Completion not only earns you money, but also Respect. "Respect is a currency," Stockman explains. "You use to unlock the missions. There's four different storylines in the game, each made up of a series of missions." But you can't simply play through these storylines - you have to earn the right.

'Saint's Row' Screenshot 4

Real physics make for much more exciting explosions, especially when you drive a petrol tanker into them.

For instance, if you carjack a vehicle with more than one person inside, you'll immediately find yourself playing the Hostage mini-game. Depending upon the number of unwilling passengers, you will be given a length of time (somewhere around two minutes) during which you must keep the car moving fast enough such that none of your captives can jump out. With the police on your tail, this becomes a high-speed chase game, with no room for serious error. Slow down too much, or have a crash, and the hostages will bail out and escape, and the Respect and significant reward money will be gone.

Other Activities available include Drug Trafficking, Street Racing and the all-important Snatch, where you must steal 'hos' from rival pimps and take them to those working for your own gang. Those crazy gangs!

The Respect is then spent on missions that can be found marked on the main map. But this isn't simply a loose disguising sheet draped over a linear thread. Stockman is very keen to point out that the freedom remains throughout. "You could start one of the four stories and go through twenty-five percent, then stop, and go play another one for as long as you like. Completing missions from a storyline gains you territory, and you eventually have to gain all the territory to ultimately win the game, but you can really do it in any order you like. It's as non-linear as possible."

This notion of gaining territory introduces another distinguishing aspect. As you play, new options begin unlocking, including new contacts for your cellphone, and more importantly, the ability to recruit 'homies'. These AI buddies will assist you when in territory owned by your gang, the 3rd Street Saints. "This means there's a little bit of interaction between the stories," adds Stockman. "When you've earned a part of a neighbourhood's territory, your own friendly gang members will spawn there. So if you then play a mission that takes place in that area of the neighbourhood, or pass by it during one, you'll have your friends coming up to help. There's definitely some strategy to it."

'Saint's Row' Screenshot 5

St. Saviour's youth group grows somewhat out of hand.

As well as the multiplayer modes we told you about last week, Saint's Row also features a limited co-op mode. "You and a friend over Live, or a system link, can play on specific maps," Stockman describes. "One's set in an airport, and you're trying to get out, with tons of law enforcement coming after you. In another, you and a friend have to transport these drugs to a safety spot, but you can't fire weapons while carrying the box - it has to be well organised teamwork to beat the AI."

Volition appears to have learned lessons from its predecessors. Stockman ensured us that there were going to be no hidden surprises for the ratings board. "We've got an M rating in America, so we're not nervous. As long as you're not trying to hide anything you don't need to worry. We're not incredibly violent. There's no graphical depiction of decapitations or dismemberments - it's very over-the-top, very comical." But is he afraid of the current hysteria over such games? "I'm not too worried about people complaining about the content of Saint's Row. There's no secret porn codes!"

Along with the peculiar nature of assuring the public that there would be no nudity in a game involving trafficking drugs and stealing prostitutes, it does appear that developing such a game in the current climate is at least frustrating. "I hope that our ratings system becomes more like the movie industry," Stockman went on, "and so you can have more risqué content in an 'M' rated game. If you get an 'AO', that's a death sentence. You're banned from the retail outlets in America. I hope that as the industry matures we can start seeing people push more with M rated games, like an R-rated movie." Is there an explanation for this contradictory immaturity? "The current politicians grew up with movies, but they didn't grow up with games. They don't understand them. I think once people get over the stigmatism that games are for kids, and we get a new generation of politicians that grew up with games, who understand the medium and what we can do, then I think you'll see the laws begin to change."

Playing Saint's Row, it's immediately apparent that it's attempting to keep fingers in two different pies. While it's still remarkably violent - the addition of ragdolls and real physics makes car crashes and hit-and-runs a lot more, er, affecting - it's also much more light-hearted than other similar games. There are a lot of jokes thrown around the city, and some slightly more subtle than in-game burger chain, Freckled Bitches' slogan, "You can't beat our meat."

'Saint's Row' Screenshot 6

"Why won't anyone steal me? Come back! STEAL ME TOO!"

Stealing a car from a posh young female we heard, "Hey! That was my graduation present!" Then using the car to t-bone an ambulance a passer-by yelled out, "What are you doing? Someone's life is on the line!" Drive a cop car like a loony, and others will make comments on the dreadful state of the police. And while pretend radio stations are hardly their idea, some of the spoof commercials, and especially the right-wing-alike talk radio station, are superbly written and produced, sometimes even scathing in their satire. ("I don't mind immigrants coming into the country and I don't mind if they wear their costumes. They should just wear costumes that are red, white and blue to prove they love America.")

"We aren't trying to be authentic. We're trying to be the MTV view of gang life." Stockman believes that people still don't quite understand Saint's Row's attitude. "I would say that the overall tone of the game is very comical. I think people are going to be blown away. They're going to go in thinking this is serious, and they're going to come out laughing. The characters are so crazy, and so outlandish, that it's a breath of fresh air that people are not going to expect."

It will be interesting to see if Saint's Row's freeform nature, and lack of emphasis on a central narrative, will be sustained by the side-games. And if it can be distinct enough in its... genre.

We'll all be able to find out on 1st September.

Picture of John.

About John Walker

Read more articles from John by visiting the John Walker archive page.

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Comments (53) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Xerx3s #1 6 years ago

    "We aren't trying to be authentic. We're trying to be the MTV view of gang life."

    Why? Just, why?

  • InfiniteFury #2 6 years ago

    Everything about this makes me want it to be good but you've got to be wary. I think it's good enough for pre-order anyway, looking forward to the demo next week (if the schedule's held up)

  • Stickman #3 6 years ago

    He's my evil twin you know?

  • Azazel #4 6 years ago

    What a nice way to look at GTA... "the creation of a genre".

    mmm moneymoneymoneymoney

  • Freek #5 6 years ago

    Respect is the new Credits.

  • octo #6 6 years ago

    I'm hoping crackdown becomes the free-roaming game of choice. Whilst this looks like fun, I'm tired of the bling bling bling. As are many I'm sure.

  • pantherboy #7 6 years ago

    "Stickman
    25-Jul-06 12:51:19
    He's my evil twin you know? "
    I do believe that the question is not needed there, unless it was a question rather then a statement - in which case the sentance wouldn't make sense.

    /I'm bored.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 12:58

  • absolutezero #8 6 years ago

    This just seems like a parody game, which could be amusing for awhile but just like parody movies could get really boring quickly.

  • karlidog #9 6 years ago

    This 'pimps and hos' shit is getting pretty distasteful. I'm not convinced EG would've given such an easy ride if they'd been interviewing someone developing a sex trafficking game (kidnap Eastern European women with promises of overseas jobs! Score points for every underage woman you deliver into brutalised servitude!). So why is it okay when it's American 'pimps and hos'?

  • gizmo #10 6 years ago

    So guys, having played near finished code over the weekend, how do you feel about the game? Is it one to watch, or a non runner? I've been especially looking forward to on-line play, and the fact that there is some co-op play is a definate bonus... so long as the game can hold its own.

  • Fatfish #11 6 years ago

    I'm hoping this will turn out ok. Having not played GTA:LC, it's been a while since I've played something like this.

    The hostage minigame sounds funny though. Reading a first impression in Xbox360 mag, they said that the city does actually feel quite alive. Upon reaching a rival pimp on a 'capture the ho's' mission, the police had turned up minutes before hand, tried to arrest him and ended up killing him in a shoot out! :D

    Sounds great to me! Don't care if poeple think this is a clone or not - to me, it's just a different game in the same genre. Measure it on it's merits and downfalls as a game, not on the fact it doesn't (in your opinion) live up to the GTA IP. What other game allows you to dress like Snoop Dog in Starsky and Hutch and run around a city causing havoc and mayhem with pipebombs and rockets!!

  • Ceatlan #12 6 years ago

    I think this actually looks quite good and if they can fix the horrendous fighting part of the GTA games they'll probably be on to something.

    However I won't be getting the game as I find the whole concept of a game where you murder people, take hostages, traffic in drugs, organise prostitution, promote gangs, steal vehicles, performed armed hold ups etc etc very very disturbing. I find it even more disturbing that anybody else would want to play it. I'm not for censorship, I certainly except the developers rights to produce the game, and an individuals right to play it, but that doesn't stop my finding the whole thing more than a little bit worrying.

    I can't help but think that this will just provide further fuel for the anti-gaming communities fire.

  • glaeken #13 6 years ago

    This game sounds a little better each time I hear of it.

    I dislike all the bling bling bollocks but game play wise it sounds like it might have some interesting ideas. I like the idea of making a run for it back to home territory and the help of your fellow gang members.

    They did say there will be a demo so given the release date hopefully this will turn up on Live soon.

    @Ceatlan They have already said the combat side of it is totally different to GTA. It despenses with the target lock in favour of free form aiming.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 13:27

  • Carlo #14 6 years ago

    Why don't they just have missions to lure kiddies out of parks, follow grannies into their own homes to rob, murder and rape them, female castration, honour killings and cute animal crawlty?

    I mean, they might as well do ALL the distateful things in the world.

  • jlaakso #15 6 years ago

    GTA which would be actually fun to play does sound good, but this "pimps and hos" theme is stretching it to the point that it has to be very good indeed to get me to play. And even then I'd find it in very poor taste.

    As a sidenote, Overdose has fun fighting while retaining the basic GTA formula. It even has that GTA "could've done this on a Playstation" look!

  • octo #16 6 years ago

    *takes notes for Carlo*

    *sends idea to rockstar*

  • botherer #17 6 years ago

    "I'm not convinced EG would've given such an easy ride if they'd been interviewing someone developing a sex trafficking game (kidnap Eastern European women with promises of overseas jobs! Score points for every underage woman you deliver into brutalised servitude!). So why is it okay when it's American 'pimps and hos'?"

    Because they're not underage, and you're not kidnapping? As it happens, the game attempts a sort of justification for this itself - you are instructed to 'rescue' prostitutes only from abusive pimps, and bring them to your own rather friendly guy.

    I'm also not convinced we'd have given it such an easy ride if we'd been interviewing someone developing a baby-skewering game (kidnap newborn babies and wedge them onto a rusting spike! Score points for every tear shed by a grieving mother!).

    Do be sensible.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 13:35

  • Darkedge #18 6 years ago

    was interested - that interview has turned me off. sound rubbish

  • Stickman #19 6 years ago

    Come on now folks, where's all this social outrage coming from? Too much Daily Mail reading going on here.

  • jlaakso #20 6 years ago

    I don't find anything funny with prostitution. GTA III's "collect prostitutes for police party" mission was a bit much already.

    And no, it's not a "violence good, sex bad" thing.

  • NthSimulachum #21 6 years ago

    I'll be surprised if this turns out well.

  • glaeken #22 6 years ago

    Yeah I don't get the social outrage. The content of the game is pretty much no different to half the films Hollywood turn out these days.

    As for the suggestion of a slippery slope and games soon featuring pedophilia and rape missions well that is a nonsense argument as such things don't feature in this actual game. You can not say lets ban something because although it does not include this extremely offensive thing maybe some else will make a game at a latter date that does. A bollocks argument quite frankly.

  • darkphoenix #23 6 years ago

    I too have become bored of this criminal life style in GTA gaming.

    Only if the developpers let us choose between the good or the bad side in the story-mode and character personality, I think it could be a lot more interesting and fair to gamers.


    Since I'm not 15 anymore, I fail to see the eternal interest in joining gangs, murder, robbery and drug trafic, fighting law enforcement making them the badguys, killing inocent people in the way...
    It just doesn't entertain me anymore, and I'll be passing this...
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 13:56

  • redd #24 6 years ago

    so many drama queens around here, where have they been hiding?

  • The_Foo_Fighter #25 6 years ago

    Pantherboy - perhaps next time when you correct someone's grammar, you should consider your own abuse of the English language. 'Sentance' is not a word I've ever come across.

  • Glitch #26 6 years ago

    If it has updates over XBL including new cars, maps and models then SA can kiss goodbye

  • fizzer25 #27 6 years ago

    im really excited about this game!!

    quite often the game which creates the genre is surpassed by others that copy it and perhaps saints row can give gta a run for its oney after all it is extremely playable but does have many frustrating flaws!!!!

  • Carlo #28 6 years ago

    "A bollocks argument quite frankly. " One that no-one actually made too!

  • glaeken #29 6 years ago

    You can not counter my excellent rebuttal by pointing out no-one ever made the argument in the first place. It's not fair ;)

  • Fatnick #30 6 years ago

    (kidnap Eastern European women with promises of overseas jobs! Score points for every underage woman you deliver into brutalised servitude!)

    That sounds like the best game ever.

    I'm sure it would go down well at the likes of UK:R anyway...

  • Fatnick #31 6 years ago

    "it's no looker ;)"

    Guess that makes it the equal of every single PS3 game then ;)

  • InfiniteFury #32 6 years ago

    Just read an interview with the developer - no boats, flying vehicles or motorbikes.

    Booooo.

  • El_MUERkO #33 6 years ago

    "I'm also not convinced we'd have given it such an easy ride if we'd been interviewing someone developing a baby-skewering game (kidnap newborn babies and wedge them onto a rusting spike! Score points for every tear shed by a grieving mother!)."

    /pre-orders

  • darkbhudda #34 6 years ago

    What no flying motorcycles?

  • Triggerhappytel #35 6 years ago

    So guys, having played near finished code over the weekend, how do you feel about the game? Is it one to watch, or a non runner?

    That's what I want to know. Tell us how it plays EG! Do the cars handle well? Are the on-foot controls good & responsive? How about the shooting, or the AI? C'mon, if you've played a near-finished version we want to know how it plays!

  • Eighthours #36 6 years ago

    Just took a 2nd look at the screen shots. The better looking characters look next gen'ish. The backdrops look poor. The dustbin model looks really poor. There appears to be a photo-real looking double yellow line on the road that is out of scale with the cartoony looking car. There's a very good looking explosion going on in one shot. The game looks really empty. The location that looks like a church at night, i've seen better grahpics on a Playstation 2.

    Blackdog, it's almost like the game isn't coming out on a Sony console! ;)

  • morriss #37 6 years ago

    Well, I'm interested, and I wasn't before I read this, so there!!

    Sounds like if done well, it could be a very good game.

  • Darren #38 6 years ago

    "We'll all be able to find out on 1st September."

    Actually, those with Xbox Live will be able to find out next week, 1st August to be precise 'cos that's when the demo is due to hit the Marketplace!

  • effinwooly #39 6 years ago

    demo ? sweet !

  • cyber_nicco #40 6 years ago

    I would think a game that pokes fun at the whole "bling bling" culture might actually be welcome by people that proclaim to be so sick of it. I could tell as soon as I heard the names of the multiplayer games that this game is trying to take a humorous approach to the "genre".

    Anyway, everything, including this interview, has me interested in this game.

  • cyber_nicco #41 6 years ago

    Oh, and Blackdog, you constantly pop up on MS related threads here at EG and inevitably bash the Xbox and its games (and pretty much anything MS related). Don't you think it is perhaps a bit disingenous to suggest that you are being completely objective?

    I doubt I'm the only one with this sentiment...
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 17:51

  • Stickman #42 6 years ago

    "My statment was not an anti Xbox360 one. My views were based on the screens shots only, irrespective of platform ;) "

    Thank God you put a wink on the end of that!

  • jozz #43 6 years ago

    I would ask if you owned anything else other than Sony consoles but there really is no point :I

    Edited by 1 at 25/07/06 @ 22:31

  • botherer #44 6 years ago

    You boys and your silly console bickering.

    It looks pretty good running. Certainly better than previous gen consoles.

  • assjacket #45 6 years ago

    Whats with the moral outrage all of a sudden!? I don't remember anyone complaining about pacman cannibalising ghosts. Where were the whiners when people were killing ducks by the hundreds in Duck Hunt? You even held a pseudo gun for that "game". I always hear that people want games to be more realistic and then when they are the same people cry that it's offensive. These are games people, if they are too offensive for you then please send me your console because 75% of games have some type of violent content. Go back to playing tetris, or is that somehow cruelty to virtual blocks?

  • SlackMaster #46 6 years ago

    Hasn't the GTA gang style game been done to death already? Personally I though the Mercenaries game was a better slant on the free roaming game style.

  • PixD #47 6 years ago

    "Go back to playing tetris, or is that somehow cruelty to virtual blocks?"

    I do think tetris is cruel to virtual blocks. I'm deeply disturbed by how people can enjoy tetris. I also think that Pacman promotes cannibalism. lol

    Seriously, it's obvious the EG readers are in Europe and haven't played the demo. You all sound like those ex-Saint's Row haters 11 days ago at Gamespot and IGN before the demo surfaced. Why don't we continue this discussion after August 1st? Even better would be after September 1st. Besides, I wouldn't hold my breath for EG's review of this game. I recommend reading reviews by gamers who played the demo or when the actual game is released.

    Since when are gamers so concerned about games' moral impact on societies? Since when is a video game tasteful? I find this incredibly ironic. Some of your comments remind me of the US senators from the "Hot Coffee" senate hearing.

  • albundy #48 6 years ago

    "Since when are gamers so concerned about games' moral impact on societies? Since when is a video game tasteful? I find this incredibly ironic. Some of your comments remind me of the US senators from the "Hot Coffee" senate hearing".

    Because it's a 'black game'.


    Few gamers cried foul over Grand Theft Auto III

    Few gamers cried foul over Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

    Few gamers cried foul over The Godfather


    But...


    Many gamers DID cry foul over Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

    Many gamers DID cry foul over True Crime: New York City

    Many gamers DID cry foul over Saint's Row


    Notice a pattern forming?

  • PixD #49 6 years ago

    "Because it's a 'black game'. "

    Excuse me? I'm not sure if I follow what you're trying to say, but it certainly shows that people have no idea of what this game is about.

  • albundy #50 6 years ago

    Come on man, connect the dots! Surely you got the jist of my reply???

  • PixD #51 6 years ago

    albundy, yes, I got it. I apologize for over reacting.

  • Glitch #52 6 years ago

    Ceatlan "However I won't be getting the game as I find the whole concept of a game where you murder people, take hostages, traffic in drugs, organise prostitution, promote gangs, steal vehicles, performed armed hold ups etc etc very very disturbing. I find it even more disturbing that anybody else would want to play it. I'm not for censorship, I certainly except the developers rights to produce the game, and an individuals right to play it, but that doesn't stop my finding the whole thing more than a little bit worrying."

    its not real dude! Grow the fuck up and get a life! Im sick of people like you! its a fucking computer game! anyone who copies it or thinks its real have mental problems and should be helped! Normal people can tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction

  • Glitch #53 6 years ago

    If you cant steal a bike, spawn a helicopter/plane and fly high and then parachute to your mission then this game sucks! in my eyes this games needs to do EVERYTHING GTA:SA did and if it doesn't then its nothing special.