Hirai: We're the "official" industry leader

By Robert Purchese Published 20 January, 2009

Reckons PS3 will finish in front.

Sony Computer Entertainment boss Kaz Hirai has dismissed Microsoft and Nintendo as competitors because he sees PlayStation as the "official" industry leader.

"This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the biggest install base, or who's selling most in any particular week or month, but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry," Hirai told Official PlayStation Magazine.

"It's difficult to talk about Nintendo, because we don't look at their console as being a competitor. They're a different world, and we operate in our world - that's the kind of way I look at things.

"And with the Xbox - again, I can't come up with one word to fit. You need a word that describes something that lacks longevity," he added with a laugh.

Brandishing Sony's commitment to The Ten Year Plan, Hirai said he wants customers to feel confident their PlayStation console will not "fall by the wayside in five years" - a milestone Microsoft has yet to overcome, he pointed out.

"And," offered Hirai, "unless things go really bad, there's no way that at the end of a life cycle our competition is going have a higher install base."

Hirai also addressed the complex architecture of the PS3, which developers have openly struggled to get to grips with.

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

He picked God of War to show gameplay changing during long life of the PS2, and said that sort of learning curve will be the same with PS3.

"So it's a kind of - I wouldn't say a double-edged sword - but it's hard to program for, and a lot of people see the negatives of it, but if you flip that around, it means the hardware has a lot more to offer," he said.

Wrapping things up, Hirai said the PlayStation 3 "won't radically change" over the next few years in the same way the New Xbox Experience revamped the competition.

He hopes PlayStation Home will help there, by growing to a point where one type of consumer buys the PS3 solely for the virtual world, before discovering that there are are some games on the games console.

"We want to expand the demographics from just a videogaming audience to something that's a little bit more massive," Hirai concluded.

You can read the full interview in the February issue of Official PlayStation Magazine.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (217) 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DFawkes #1 3 years ago

    "This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the biggest install base, or who's selling most in any particular week or month, but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry,"

    Fuck off. Fuck right off. Fuck, the fuckety fuck, right the fuck off.

  • andywilkie35 #2 3 years ago

    ""And with the Xbox - again, I can't come up with one word to fit. You need a word that describes something that lacks longevity," he added with a laugh."

    *Sigh*

  • kingnothing12 #3 3 years ago

    but sir you loosing loads of money..

    LA LA LA im not listening LA LA LA

    Also your multiplatform titles suck in comparison to your competitors

    LA LA LA im not listening LA LA LA

    your in third fucking place and thats the way its gonna stay

    ....im still not listening

  • Drone #4 3 years ago

    I'm king of the world. This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the most subjects, or who's got the biggest country, but I'd like to think that I continue official leadership of the world

  • PlugMonkey #5 3 years ago

    your in third fucking place and thats the way its gonna stay

    "Maybe in YOUR world. Not in MY world. La la la la la!"

  • toy_brain #6 3 years ago

    ""We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai."

    Pfft.

    Y'know, I'd count myself as something of a Sony fanboy, and I do like my PS3, but that comment right there, is just pure stupidity.
    I'm talking like George W Bush levels of stupidity.
    /Facepalms
    /Sighs
    /Gets back to work.

  • Raz76 #7 3 years ago

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai."

    Concentrate on gameplay? Innovate?
    (Damn, beaten to it)
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 14:28

  • HolyJebus #8 3 years ago

    After this generation the Playstation brand will prob still be strongest no matter what happens but jeez what a COCK.

  • hello_fi #9 3 years ago

    After reading this I thought "how on earth can someone who talks shit like this be in charge of a company as big as Sony?"

    Then I realised that it makes sense considering how poorly the PS3 is doing and why they'll never be able to catch Nintendo and Microsoft. Silly bastard, I feel sorry for the poor cunt. He was probably dribbling all over the place whilst giving the interview.

  • PlugMonkey #10 3 years ago

    This bit just gets funnier everytime I read it:

    "They're a different world (the real world?), and we operate in our world (the Land of Make Believe?) - that's the kind of way I look at things."

  • DFawkes #11 3 years ago

    We need something worse than facepalms. Something so severe it literally hurts his stupid, smug, fact-ignoring face, without the need to assault him directly.

    /facepalm with Cilit Bang

  • des #12 3 years ago

    ahahaha

  • chanderzz #13 3 years ago

    Slow news day?

  • kingnothing12 #14 3 years ago

    I jus love the way he thinks, even though they're loosing millions, loosing all their exclusives and still trailing behind M$ and Nintendo he still has the balls to say that they are the official leader in the industry lmao

  • space_ace #15 3 years ago

    mega face palm!

  • Dizzy #16 3 years ago

    >You need a word that describes something that lacks longevity

    PS3?

    >We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for'

    What????? That must be a fake comment.

    Seriously.. how do people like that get a job? Ass kissing? If I said that to my boss I would be fired in a second.
    Edited by 2 at 20/01/09 @ 14:38

  • FenderMaster #17 3 years ago

    funny stuff!!

    his explanation for why the PS3 is difficult to programme for in particular, makes NO FUCKING SENSE!!

    Ah well, i do't really care as long as there's fgood games to play!!

    I'd rather have the third place console with loads of great games, than the first place console with nothing but shovelware...

  • Mr-Bozzey #18 3 years ago

    lmao im gonna pitch a new film francise to g.lucas its called CONSOLE WARS !

    the series goes a bit like this

    Console Wars I - the xbot menance
    Console Wars II - Attack of the sony clones
    Console Wars III - Revenge of the xbots
    Console Wars IV- A new hope
    Console Wars V- Microsoft strike back
    Console Wars VI- Return of the Sony Francise !



    A long time ago on a far far away game website ...... the console wars raged on the planet of eurogamer !!!

    - dramtics music follows-

  • Widge #19 3 years ago

    Where is the 'ignore Hirai' button?

  • the_dudefather #20 3 years ago

    I gather these PR talk stories are like the 'EU BANS FUN' style stories in the Sun followed by everyone fussing and shouting for a few minutes when they read it

  • ronuds #21 3 years ago

    """We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do"

    Yes, why would you want developers to be able to take advantage of a machine you've manufactured? I think Sony just always wants to be able to hang that "wait until next year" carrot out there for everyone to keep chasing.

    Possibly one of the single most idiotic things said since this generation began.

  • DFawkes #22 3 years ago

    Won't anyone defend him? Quote sales figures for some obscure region? Bring up the Cell? The fact that it's not been out as long as competitors? I'm not defending him, he's a moron. All that is irrelevant since Hirai is living in some alternate universe where he's not talking bollocks.

    Do you think he thinks he's in the Matrix if he says "We're the winners!" with enough conviction it'll become reality?

  • Dizzy #23 3 years ago

    BTW Sony will include this programming API in their next PS. Just to make sure devs have something to do.

  • red3p #24 3 years ago

    Developer: Hey, Kaz, your console is too shit to program on. Uses too much time and money for a rather small userbase.

    Kaz: You're just too stupid, learn it and you love it.

    Developer: Fuck you, let's go and program on the 360. At least, there we make some money.

  • penhalion #25 3 years ago

    He hopes PlayStation Home will help there, by growing to a point where one type of consumer buys the PS3 solely for the virtual world, before discovering that there are are some games on the games console.

    Unless he is courting some fuck awful stupid customers. I'm not sure how an environment whose sole function seems to be leg humping is gonna sell even a single PS3!

  • Santino #26 3 years ago

    dude seems to be losing it, sounds more and more like crazy ken.

    every time he opens his mouth i dislike being a ps3 owner a little more.

  • BillyBrush #27 3 years ago

    It's Official!

    we put maze puzzle in front of all the power, so that developers can't unlock the puzzle until 5 years, pwoviding us with another 5 years exxtra power in the backend!....this is how it works stupid official magazine readers, honest, beleive it....they don't get better at developing more game on same power...nooo...cos we hid it, they find it, the hidden powa...banzai!

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #28 3 years ago

    @Dizzy:

    I prefer Whitespace and Lolcode :)

    Also, as a programmer who codes for the PS3 on a daily basis I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Kaz for his appreciation of game developers. Wanker.

  • presh #29 3 years ago

    I often daydream about how easy it would be to sort out the glaring issues with the entire PS3 strategy, then I realise that fundamentally, the entire company is run by a shower of imbeciles and they probably think there's nothing wrong.

  • ryohazuki1983 #30 3 years ago

    "They're a different world, and we operate in our world - that's the kind of way I look at things."

    LOL, everybody is no1 in their "own world". Reality is a different matter......

  • Petulant_Radish #31 3 years ago

    Cilit Bang is good, but not as good as plain old vinegar. Who’d have thought it?

  • quantumsheep #32 3 years ago

    Good God.

  • steve1979 #33 3 years ago

    He's like the prince philip of the gaming industry. Every time he opens his mouth the entire Sony staff must do one giant facepalm at his stupidity.

  • BillyBrush #34 3 years ago

    @Radish

    Barry Scott does not lie or overhype Cillit Bang in any way, he's not saying in a couple of years that coin will be clean because Cillit Bang has untapped potential...no, he say Bang!, and the dirt is gone

    Do not being Barry Scott into this

  • NorfolkNClue #35 3 years ago

    "And," offered Hirai, "unless things go really bad, there's no way that at the end of a life cycle our competition is going have a higher install base."

    /Hirai sticks head in sand.

  • lambtron #36 3 years ago

    hahahahahahahahaha!

    They've really lost the plot this time. I think DFawkes probably summed it up best.

  • Kryon #37 3 years ago

    Funniest article I've read in years, Please EG, can't you find a way to make the Benny Hill theme play when we click on this news item? It would make it just that little bit better.

  • DUFFKING #38 3 years ago

    God, people like Hirai, Mattrick etc. actually make me hate this industry. Fucking hate them, all of them. I wish they'd stop being such a bunch of whiny little kids and do something worth while. They just prance around like paid trolls.

  • Feanor #39 3 years ago

    What a foolish string of things for Hirai say.

  • Petulant_Radish #40 3 years ago

    @Billy

    Hey hey hey, I was not calling Barry Scott’s integrity into call here. I for one was initially amazed at the cleaning prowess of Cilit Bang, it cleaned through worktop grease like nothing other. Bathroom stains vanished under it’s militant foam.

    But then one day an old witch cackled vinegar at me while I sat on my toilet. At it occurred to me I should try it on my shower’s water stained screen door, where previously Barry Scott’s champion had failed, vinegar prevailed, BOOMSHANKAH!

    Who gives a fuck about consoles, cleaning products are where it’s that, schizzle.

  • b00n #41 3 years ago

    Let me say... what the fuck?

  • andijames #42 3 years ago

    God it's like throwing a condom machine in the vatican toilet round here. Complete uproar

  • jack_klugman #43 3 years ago

    Fire this silly little man.

  • Ranger101 #44 3 years ago

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai."


    What a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to say. Stupid.

  • jack_klugman #45 3 years ago

    Hirai, the two "official" metrics of success are sales and profit. How is the PlayStation brand doing on those two fronts, both in terms of hardware and software, compared to your TWO DIRECT COMPETITORS, Microsoft and Nintendo?

  • Byzanite #46 3 years ago

    lolz, guys a nutter.

  • drumbaby #47 3 years ago

    While I'm more than happy with my PS3, I can't help but remember the hours Sony spent at past E3's. reeling off chart after diagram after graph of PS2 installled user base data, when all I wanted to see was PS2 game previews. But I guess it's worth crowing about when you're out in front.

    So in all actuallity, Kaz should just STFU until they attain that level of success again, or until he's something sensible to say.

  • Raz76 #48 3 years ago

    It's not only moronic, if this is in fact Sony politics it is very disturbing. If you look at the movie industry, major innovative and artistic leaps were made in the 1960's. This was because cheap, lightweight equipment was invented, making it possible for a lot more people to make movies, making experiments less risky because of lower costs and making it possible to film everywhere because of the less demanding equipment. The moment technology becomes more accessible, innovation grows, and what he is basically saying here is that Sony has been holding back innovation with one hand, just as it has promoted it with the other. And I'm sure Factor 5 and Free Radical are delighted at these remarks.

  • mrmonkey1980 #49 3 years ago

    You have to give the guy credit for putting a positive spin (or trying) on the obvious fact that they are losing the console war. And I could be inclined to agree with that he says if there was any chance that they aren't just going to make a PS4 in 5 years time and render PS3 near obsolete.

    Truth is PS majorly fubar-ed their chances this generation. They really should have thought about developers when making the console. It's like making a technically perfect movie but forgetting to engage the viewer's emotions or intelligence.

  • optimusprym8 #50 3 years ago

    is that official like the US sports World Series?

  • rob76 #51 3 years ago

    excuse me sir...head-arse-out

  • mrmonkey1980 #52 3 years ago

    Good point Raz

  • Dizzy #53 3 years ago

    "You have to give the guy credit for putting a positive spin (or trying) on the obvious fact that they are losing the console war"

    Yes that is his job... but his positive spin is just MADNESS!!!

    /kicks Hirai into pit of death

  • mrmonkey1980 #54 3 years ago

    I didn't say it wasn't madness. I was just pointing out that if he can find good in all the crap Sony hs been through then he either has really good eyesight or is used to living in a sewer.

  • ps3owner #55 3 years ago

    They're a different world, and we operate in our world - that's the kind of way I look at things

    Posititve thinking is what we need, a true visionary leader... very optimistic. I want to live in his world, where can I sign up? HOME?

  • woodnotes #56 3 years ago

    Oh my word - this is almost like a complete joke.

    They make their hardware purposefully difficult to program for!?

    The fact that Hirai is blatantly living in cuckoo-land worries me somewhat for the future of SCE

  • DFawkes #57 3 years ago

    It's not so much positive spin, as it is him lying to himself. "We're the winners!" but you're not. "We're the winners!" No.

    He has to be on the MS payroll to say such stupid things, or at least a wager with another person. Possibly Kojima.

  • Dizzy #58 3 years ago

    >He has to be on the MS payroll

    Maybe MS replaced him with a evil robot self? The real Hirai is now trapped inside Redmont trying to shoot his way out.

  • butler` #59 3 years ago

    r o f l

    Seriously fucking laughed. And he's their boss.......................omg-.-

    I would love to interview this guy.

  • Goodfella #60 3 years ago

    People really need to stop taking these kind of comments seriously (and personally).

  • darc #61 3 years ago

    Wow. MS offers up some strange characters for interviews, but nothing quite so bizarre as this guy. Nearly every paragraph is a study in delusion.

    We meant to completely alienate developers LOL. And we're officially the leaders even though we're not leading!

    As it happens I'm an official rock star, even though I'm actually a middle aged, overweight database analyst. And I have a difficult personality, but that only means you might find something to like about me in the next nine and a half years!

  • Oldern #62 3 years ago

    PR has its place in a world, which is totally acceptable.
    Which is odd however, is getting facts from the past of Microsoft (Xbox's "lifespan";), and using it incorrectly.
    I just cant see the 10 year lifespan of a PlayStation machine. Was the original even supported around 2004? Will new and relevant PlayStation 2 games come around 2010? (Hell,what will come this year?).

    So it is okay stating that 360 will not have the lifespan of a PlayStation 3, but once this statement proves false, it will hurt a lot .

  • neonxaos #63 3 years ago

    Can't beat Kaz for optimism.

  • Segnit #64 3 years ago

    Guys, guys... please consider the possibility that the interview might be faked. Cause then, things would make sense. Can we confirm his?

  • hello_fi #65 3 years ago

    I bet that Hirai's blue bus has the cleanest windows in the world

  • mazzl #66 3 years ago

    'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?

    you spend that time on content and gameplay instead of spending the first three years of the console on engine development.
    i would fire this guy on the spot!

  • HardCoreGamer999 #67 3 years ago

    "It's difficult to talk about Nintendo, because we don't look at their console as being a competitor. They're a different world, and we operate in our world - that's the kind of way I look at things.

    This is so funny , the guy is a joke.
    Not really a competitor..hahahahaha!

  • jaluuk #68 3 years ago

    Seppuku for you Kaz.

    @segnit

    The article states the comments were taken from Official PlayStation Magazine. Yes, I very much can see them faking an interview to make Kaz look dumb.

    Mmm, reading the article properly is good, ja?
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 15:29

  • Razzajazz #69 3 years ago

    Is this some kind of bodysnatchers thing, and Kaz has been replaced by some kind of Microsoft pod-person whose mission it is to destroy Sony from the inside out? That's the only logical reason that comments so monumentally stupid and guaranteed to piss off developers (y'know, the guys that you kind of depend on to make your console viable, Kaz) could possibly have been made.

    I do, however, think we have a winner for most ridiculous comment this console generation, even more so than the Ken K 'two jobs' fiasco!

  • bionutz #70 3 years ago

    Maybe he said all this taking into account PS2 user base. But then surely Wii would be a competitor there, wouldn't it?

  • kinky_mong #71 3 years ago

    I bet that Hirai's blue bus has the cleanest windows in the world

    Love it!

    Seriously he's like that Saddam lackey (can't remember his name, wasn't it something like Comical Ali?) who claimed there was no problems in Iraq as the tanks rolled past.

  • Eraysor #72 3 years ago

    And to think my opinion of the PlayStation hardware had improved after the preview of Flower earlier.

  • mcwildcard #73 3 years ago

    I'm curious to know if the original interview was conducted in English, as I kind of get what he's trying to say, but it's come across as incredibly arrogant. Could well be some 'arty' translating going on there just to make Sony look bad and create a story where there is none.

  • darc #74 3 years ago

    "They really should have thought about developers when making the console."

    And they should have thought about the potential buyer when they set out with a design spec and decided on price. The PS3 is a great product for someone who wants or needs a gaming system and a hi-def theater set up and has the disposable income to be comfortable buying all of this in one go. But Sony cut themselves right out of the market of non-millionaire gamers who just wanted a new console. MS happily obliged that market... and then to top it all off the world economy collapsed... and still Sony is optimistic about their $500 video game! "One size fits all" was a big mistake for Sony.

    "Not really a competitor..hahahahaha!"

    Actually, his comment re: Nintendo is comes closest to having some basis in reality as I see it. The Wii is a brilliant win for Nintendo in terms of cost vs. sale price and salabililty, but from a consumer's perspective, it's essentially an apple where XBox/PS3 are oranges. A lot of Wii owners don't know as much, but that doesn't mean its not true. Just try trading in your XBox for a Wii for a week; one doesn't cover for the other.

  • VeyronMick #75 3 years ago

    I want some of the drugs he's on.
    Sound like "beer goggles"+1.

  • ne0star #76 3 years ago

    He almost makes it sound like making it hard to program for is a feature because we all clearly like to blow 300 quid on a console for the games to look half as good as they could be for the first 3 years of ownership :p

    Why write decent devlopment tools when we can have folk slog on for 5 years until they get the hang of it, and just as they are getting to grips with the whole thing we release the PS4!

  • zuljin #77 3 years ago

    @Dizzy and Redneon
    Seriously, have you guys been living in a cave? This is the future!

  • PlugMonkey #78 3 years ago

    The Wii is a brilliant win for Nintendo in terms of cost vs. sale price and salabililty, but from a consumer's perspective, it's essentially an apple where XBox/PS3 are oranges. A lot of Wii owners don't know as much, but that doesn't mean its not true. Just try trading in your XBox for a Wii for a week; one doesn't cover for the other.

    And yet, I can think of half a dozen people off the top of my head who, when they wanted a new games console, looked at all the options and the bought a Wii to the exclusion of them buying a PS3 or an Xbox360.

    Almost as if, to the casual consumer, a games machine is a games machine and they are all, you know, kind of in competition with each other.

    People who post in the comments threads of specialist video games websites might see the massive distinction between the PS3/X360 and the Wii, but believe me, a lot of consumers who buy one thing or the other don't. And they are the ones that count.

    And that's even without talking about software sales. I don't buy every game that comes out. When I go and buy Sam and Max or No More Heroes for my Wii, that means less money for PS3 or 360 or PC games. I don't know about anyone else on here, but I count playing Wii games as being in the same passtime bracket as playing PS3, PS2, X360 or PC games...

  • kestral #79 3 years ago

    in his world he's the industry leader. in our world..

  • mingster #80 3 years ago

    Properly retarded. Kaz loses the plot.

    But more importantly is vinegar really better than cilit bang?

  • presh #81 3 years ago

    PR has its place in a world, which is totally acceptable.
    Which is odd however, is getting facts from the past of Microsoft (Xbox's "lifespan";), and using it incorrectly.
    I just cant see the 10 year lifespan of a PlayStation machine. Was the original even supported around 2004? Will new and relevant PlayStation 2 games come around 2010? (Hell,what will come this year?).

    So it is okay stating that 360 will not have the lifespan of a PlayStation 3, but once this statement proves false, it will hurt a lot .
    I just want to point out that, as someone who's been doing tech and games PR for nearly 10 years, when people like Kaz Hirai talk out of their arses, it's not the fault of PR people.

  • triple_a #82 3 years ago

    I don't think the PS3 hardware really offers that much headroom. Even if the programmers manage to take better advantage of the Cell processor, they'll still be limited by the GPU. I mean, look at multiplatform games for example: it is very common that the Xbox360 counterpart is running at a higher native resolution than it's PS3 equivalent. Framerate also appears to be better on the Xbox360 in 9 cases out of 10.

    I own both systems by the way, so I don't consider myself a fanboy.

  • Kami #83 3 years ago

    That is... wow. I mean, we know Sony PR has been bad in the last few years but this explores all new depths of ridiculous. The Ps3 will likely have the same lifespan of the 360 I think, I do agree this cycle will be longer - primarily because technology is capping off for a bit and costs at this time in the economy are just unfeasable - but when it comes down to it, both consoles will go far. As will the Wii, though I assume Nintendo may have a trick or two up its sleeve.

    The main catch in this was the blatant disrespect for developers. All they want is a good, clear platform to experiment with. You should never make a console intentionally hard to make titles for - the Sega Saturn springs to mind here as that was meant to be a right pig, and we know what happened to that. But even then that wasn't SEGA doing it intentionally. How little must you think of developers, or how much hate must you feel, to give them a machine that you intend to make it difficult for them for many years?

    I'm just... wow. Really. I lost my job that I was damned good at and here's an asswipe of monumental proportions managing to keep his after speaking the most pure undiluted horseshit ever concieved. There is no justice in the bloody world.

  • HEAVYface #84 3 years ago

    thats a whole lot of bullshit.

    'whats the point in making devs life easy'

    and fucking arrogant too.

  • GrumpyLlama #85 3 years ago

    In his defence a can see a PS3 console lasting 10 yrs unlike my 2 previous 360s which barely managed 10 months before breaking. Don't hate me someone was bound to say it : )

  • zedzee #86 3 years ago

    Hirai: This is madness! No one harms a Sony Executive or threatens them...

    The World: THIS. IS. SPARTAAA!!!

  • Octoroc #87 3 years ago

    He can say what he likes- that's his right, but as the saying goes, "what goes on toast stays on toast" and one day I fear he may live to regret this rash rhetoric.

  • Thunderbolt #88 3 years ago

    Hey at least he didnt mention the Blu-rays!

    That has got to be one of the most deluded interviews ever.

    I love it

    Interview Kaz every week please :)
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 16:08

  • Coughthulu #89 3 years ago

    And they dumped Ken for this?

    I wonder whether Howard Stringer's had a heart attack yet; or if it'll be after he's spent an hour shouting down the phone at Hirai.

    I can only imagine PS3 devs are spitting blood atm...
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 16:09

  • drumbaby #90 3 years ago

    "And to think my opinion of the PlayStation hardware had improved after the preview of Flower earlier. "

    Well to be fair, your opinion of any inanimate object shouldn't be influenced by the tw@/s in charge of marketing it, more by how well it executes its primary function/s. :)

  • RexRunti #91 3 years ago

    I think it only fair that someone plays devil's advocate here so I'll give it go on the three main points.

    1. Nintendo isn't a competitor.
    Of course Nintendo isn't a competitor, for there to be competitors there needs to be a competition. Clearly there is no competition between Sony and Nintendo (Nintendo won ages ago) so he is in fact correct.

    2. PS3 will be winning at the end of it's life span.
    It clearly doesn't matter when, or how many new consoles come out the PS3 will outsell the 360 and the Wii combined if Sony don't release the PS4 til 2047 so again he's correct.

    3. Deliberatly making the console a bitch to program for.
    Er... er... well he's right... and this is a good thing... because?... because... Er anyone want to give me a hand here?

  • Petulant_Radish #92 3 years ago

    In his defence, he’s no Barry Scott. That man could sell me anything just by dunking it in a reddish coloured liquid.

  • Kami #93 3 years ago

    On your own there Rex, sorry mate.

  • man.the.king #94 3 years ago

    What else do you expect him to say? Of course he is going to spin things in favour of the company he works for. Doesn't matter that he is talking out his arse. If this were someone from Microsoft, he/she would spin things in MS's favour.

    It's all just hot air anyway.

    That being said, this was a monumental display of stupidity. Why can't these corporate jerks learn to keep their traps shut (am referring to both Sony and MS people here)?
    Edited by 2 at 20/01/09 @ 16:25

  • Thunderbolt #95 3 years ago

    3. Deliberatly making the console a bitch to program for.
    Er... er... well he's right... and this is a good thing... because?... because... Er anyone want to give me a hand here?

    Because developers want to be challenged, dont they! They get bored doing the same boring programming all the time. Let make it even more fun by NOT giving them the dev-kits haha. Kaz you big joker you!

  • stepneg #96 3 years ago

    The best part was implying that some day people would buy a PS3 just for Home and then realize it plays games as well. Anyone that actually does that is as mental as he clearly is.

  • Beek4257 #97 3 years ago

    Wow. That Mattrick guy sure has got his work cut out 1upping Hirai in the silly-delusional-department.
    Hilarious. Totally.
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 16:29

  • Petulant_Radish #98 3 years ago

    You can type coherently whilst in a K hole?

  • naffers #99 3 years ago

    And this guys is an industry leader. Wow what a thing to say... if i was sony, id get rid of him just on this statement alone

  • Freek #100 3 years ago

    Next time somebody interviews him, could you guys (EG) call him out on the nonsense he keeps saying?

  • BillyBrush #101 3 years ago

    Actually to be fair, EG have not quoted all the lines, and erm...well, doesn't improve matters much

    You need a word that describes something that lacks longevity... Last time I checked, they've never had a console that's been on the market for more than four or five years and we've committed to a ten year life cycle, so you do the math...

    Kaz, they've only brought the one console to market...you do not need to keep checking



  • the_inchworm #102 3 years ago

    Kaz: I've got it...
    Sony Board: What, what? tell us Kaz, we need your leadership, your vision. Tell us!
    KAz: I'm going to talk shit for ten years then we can hit Microsoft and Nintendo for massive damage...
    Sony board: We don't understand...
    Kaz: No, YOU don't understand!
    Sony Board: Yes, we don't understand...
    Kaz: RIIIIDDDDGGGGE RRRAACCCER!
    Sony Board (whisper): He's lost it.
    Kaz: RIIIIDDDDGGGGE RRRAACCCER!

    Properly laughed at that one. This thread needs more RIIIIDDDDGGGGE RRRAACCCER abuse.

  • Xerx3s #103 3 years ago

    Rash'?


    ....



    ;p< /span>

  • man.the.king #104 3 years ago

    Is Kaz the Head of SCE, or the Arse?

  • Douche #105 3 years ago

    'This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the biggest install base, or who's selling most in any particular week or month, but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry' - what a ridiculously arrogant opinion, especially in the position that Sony finds themselves in. If those aren’t measures of who is currently industry leader I don’t know what is.

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" - fuck the developers eh? They are the people that make the games that make the machine. Who cares if they have to plough additional money and resources into developing sub par games for your machine and go out of business as a result.

    And I certainly wouldn't feel hard done buy if a new xbox console came out after five years, as long as it had sufficient improvements over the 360.

    This guy is a fuckwit. Didn't someone at Sony read this interview before it was published? This guy will go the same way as Kutaragi.

  • kangarootoo #106 3 years ago

    I am slightly speechless. I don't normally get into these things, and christ knows what this thread has been like so far, but that little article has to be the most bizarre collection of weird statements I have ever read in my life.

    I have nothing more to add.

  • Garulon #107 3 years ago

    Sony's results hit town soon don't they? I guess he's hit the crystal meth a bit early before the mass layoffs.

  • BartonFink #108 3 years ago

    This takes everything that every MS or Ninty mouthpiece has said recently and makes it look reasonable.

    What a mong. The guy is clearly off his rocker.

  • IneptPercy #109 3 years ago

    I don't think even the most loyal of the SDF can defend this one.

    In basic terms:

    Sales mean nothing

    Having access of all the power of the console is a bad thing

    Consoles are rubbish unless they have a 10 year life

    So basically Sony are number one in his world, the PS3 won't breakeven for 10 years by which point the full power of the cell will be available...

    Meanwhile Microsoft releases an 'xbox 720' and clears up the mess and dominates with us true gamers, Wii 2 sells poorly as its just hi-def with a waggle stick and all the wii owners never cared about hi-def in the first place.

  • hiddenranbir #110 3 years ago

    I'll tell you what you can spend the nine and a half years on. Instead of developers continually wasting money, time and effort on learning your bloody console to even get a game functioning at an adequate level, their skills can be applied on ACTUALLY MAKING A GOOD GAME.

  • Pedrolot #111 3 years ago

    Hirai.


    SHUT THE FUCK UP!

  • Marshall2008 #112 3 years ago

    Sony are about to post a 1.1 billion dollar loss, the first time Sony has posted a loss in 14 years. The PS3 is at the root of the loss so Kaz is shitting himself. He has to say something to defend his position and keep his job.

    As for Kaz, 'This is Living... In cloud fucking cuckoo land !!!!'
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 17:29

  • DanC89 #113 3 years ago

    Just when you thought they'd learned their lesson (ie keeping their traps shut)..

    ..In storms KAZ!

  • rotmm #114 3 years ago

    "And," offered Hirai, "unless things go really bad, there's no way that at the end of a life cycle our competition is going have a higher install base."

    So is 2016 now, officially, the year of the PS3?

  • Spekingur #115 3 years ago

    Okay, and here I thought Peter Molyneux was delusional but this guy just whips past Peter and wins the race towards Planet Delusional Superior hands down.

  • Sunyavadin #116 3 years ago

    "This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the biggest install base, or who's selling most in any particular week or month, but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry,"


    ........said the CEO of Worlds.com this week when asked about his thoughts on Blizzard

  • DjFlex52 #117 3 years ago

    I don't think even the most loyal of the SDF can defend this one.

    @IneptPercy

    You're right about that.

    Even retibra is keeping his fingers tied down from typing a defense for Kaz :)

  • a8a #118 3 years ago

    @Sunyavadin

    Topical! I like it.

    Also, Kaz is a PR man, it's his job to make up excuses when things go tits up, or deny it outright. I'm sure his diet of hallucinogenic drugs helps.

  • Spekingur #119 3 years ago

    Kaz Hirai isn't "some" PR guy. He is the boss-man of Sony Computer Entertainment. That is not exactly a Public Relations title, that is the title of 'the guy that runs things'.
    Is The Office based on this guy?

  • coolbritannia #120 3 years ago

    Someone's gotta say it, PS3lol.

  • sneetch #121 3 years ago

    I would not like to be stuck in an elevator alone with that guy.

    @Dizzy
    He has to be on the MS payroll

    Maybe MS replaced him with a evil robot self? The real Hirai is now trapped inside Redmont trying to shoot his way out.

    I will buy that game!

  • dirtysteve #122 3 years ago

    Exactly how did NXE revamp the xbox? I've had it a while now and I have yet to be impressed.

  • bad09 #123 3 years ago

    Kaz opens mouth, Kaz looks like a complete cock. Business as usual at the Sony school for clowns then...

  • Rich72 #124 3 years ago

    where's apologie when you need him?

    anyway, i think Mr Hirai makes some valid points, completely fucking stupid points but points none the less.

  • sneetch #125 3 years ago

    @Garulon
    Sony's results hit town soon don't they? I guess he's hit the crystal meth a bit early before the mass layoffs.

    He might as well, I heard Sony have hardly budgeted anything for crystal meth next year!

    BTW I love the whole "we're not competing with Nintendo" thing I remember Nintendo saying the same thing back with the cube, we're not competing with Xbox or PS2, entirely different markets it was funny then, it's funny now. It's for much the same reason that toddlers don't play rugby with teenagers, it'll all end in tears. :)

  • Rich72 #126 3 years ago

    i feel the need for one of your lists apologie, come explain to me why i need my PS3

  • MiY4MOTO #127 3 years ago

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"

    "So it's a kind of - I wouldn't say a double-edged sword - but it's hard to program for, and a lot of people see the negatives of it, but if you flip that around, it means the hardware has a lot more to offer."

    I really would like to get some developers perspectives on this... say from Factor 5 or Free Radical Design. I'm sure that those guys that got laid off over Christmas will be really glad that you made your hardware such a bitch to code for!

    Speaking as someone who has probably owned all the consoles since the Atari 2600 days. WTF!? The PS3 is the most disappointing console I have ever owned. (Never did buy the GX4000) How he can put a positive spin on this "train-wreck" is beyond me.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #128 3 years ago

    This from the guy who claimed "gamers are ready for real change" then introduced the bag of hurt.

  • bad09 #129 3 years ago

    "The PS3 is the most disappointing console I have ever owned."

    Really? No Wii then?

    I never owned a console I sold on within 6 month before until the Wii.

  • Gaol #130 3 years ago

    I'm a fan of the PS3 hardware but this man is crazy. Dismissing Nintendo as competitors when they've nicked most of the casual (PS2 owning) base? And deservedly so, I bought a Wii recently and it's a great little party machine; and Zelda and Mario Galaxy are as good as anything available on the Sony platform. He's also dismissing Microsoft despite them leading the way with online integration, achievments and downloadable content.

    Sony are playing catch up, not leading.

  • Kryon #131 3 years ago

    Kaz in his new job

  • MiY4MOTO #132 3 years ago

    @ bad09

    I do own a Wii, and I have less games for it than I do my PS3, but I'd still say I'm more disappointed with my PS3. Mainly because I had no expectations from my Wii. It's cheap, it does everything I knew it would do, which (as a gamer) is not a lot. Great for gatherings / parties, and is a console that the girlfriend will use. As a brand it has no misconceptions about what it can & can't do.

    The PS3 on the other hand is expensive, it's touted as some gaming "behemoth" that will destroy all competition for it with the power of teh blu-rayzorz. When in fact it is a shiny black dust magnet, shaped like a sandwich toaster & happens to play blu-ray movies. Every supposed killer-app has turned out to be considerably less than the hype, & nearly always there is a better alternative on "the other" platform. Besides, their exclusives are rapidly becoming... whatever the opposite of exclusive is.

  • coolbritannia #133 3 years ago

    SDF are saying (elsewhere) that he never said anything about Home attracting PS3 purchases in that article, what exactly did he say as you don't quote it?

  • bloodflowers #134 3 years ago

    What a total arse.

  • GamesConnoisseur #135 3 years ago

    Rich72: Where is Apologie?

    Apologies committed the traditional form of seppuku but not before he did a megafacepalm after peeling most of his skin off the face and used generous portion of the Deepheat tm over his hands.

    a moment silence....

    No my mistake he got back in after purchasing the X360 Elite!!

    I cannot believe Sony in their right mind allowed the senile fucker to say as he did just before posting massive losses!! I still admire my PS3 but my opinion of the company just got a bit more lower! Heck I never loved MS and loathed their licence to print money off Windows XX and Office XX but thanks the stars for introducing Xbox/X360!

    Sony offically just totally lost my respects, but not that they ever needed any according to Kaz!

  • bad09 #136 3 years ago

    @ MiY4MOTO

    I get your logic there :) Me, I had no expectations when I heard of the limited hardware of Wii but man it still disappointed (except MK and Wii sports they were fun).

    See PS3 is expensive for it's age but in terms of console prices it's not unreasonable is it? (now!). For the price you pay you get a hell of a lot and I do reckon it's worth it's money with DS3 in there and now 80gb (still not as good as my media filled 320gb tho!).

    When I got one I had low expectations, I caved for Blu as poor HD DVD died and MGS4 (yes a fan, but not a mad one. 8/10 Grrrrr!), and wasn't expecting much. Sony had done little to impress up till then IMO, but after my initial hatred at buying DS3, a remote (although MS don't pack 'em in either now...) and a bigger drive my PS has become my media hub and I've sampled some great titles not on the other machines but well worth a look (even stealing a little multiplatform off the 360 - shhh, don't tell anyone....)

    All in all Sony have impressed me actually with PS3, I didn't think I would be saying that but I have.


  • SexySquirrel #137 3 years ago

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai."

    A huge reason the original Playstation humbled Sega's Saturn was exactly because IT WAS so easy to develop for and made life easy for developers as apposed to Sega's offering which was horribly complex to code for and could never get the same level of third party support. It's frightning someone as docile as this is in charge at Sony.

  • Dizzy #138 3 years ago

    On days like this I want to delete everybody from my ignore list :)

    And sadly it looks like the next gen will start somewhere in 2014?
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 19:23

  • Les #139 3 years ago

    "but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry"

    I like to think a lot of things...

  • bad09 #140 3 years ago

    "And sadly it looks like the next gen will start somewhere in 2014?"

    That's alright we can enjoy the new xbox while we wait for Kaz, kind of like most did with 360.

  • bad09 #141 3 years ago

    @ xXBrombeerXx

    In all honesty no, but then I would never really go that high end (and my 5.1 is humble). PS3 is a "jack of all trades" digital, DVD, Blu video, music, pictures, games all in one rather slick interface. Sure other machines do some or all of these things even better at times but it's good enough for me and, like I was saying on a thread the other day, when the movie store hits here (eventually. More mistakes Sony....) I reckon I'll love the George Foreman even more. MS dropped the ball not letting you keep movies IMO but with the silly non standard HDD (meaning 120gb max) it's not surprising.

  • spammage #142 3 years ago

    Whatever he has been smoking, i want some.

  • login_name #143 3 years ago

    ...

  • darc #144 3 years ago

    "And yet, I can think of half a dozen people off the top of my head who, when they wanted a new games console, looked at all the options and the bought a Wii to the exclusion of them buying a PS3 or an Xbox360."

    I hear ya, plugmonkey. In fact, I was one of those people - the Wii was the 1st machine I bought this generation. But when I finally broke down and bought an XBox 360 it was clear to me that these two designs had entirely different objectives. So yes, in so far as the Wii can divert sales from MS/Sony, it is a competing product, I won't argue that. All I'm saying is that Nintendo had a very specific business plan in mind with the Wii (a brilliant one by all accounts) which was qualitatively different than that of Sony or MS. Nintendo had a low cost product that was genuinely innovative, and they targeted a vast market that was previously untapped. Sony and MS, on the other hand, were both aiming to bring (something closer to) cutting edge gaming technology to existing markets, so its easier to compare their relative successes.

    Anyway, I'm hardly arguing with you, and yes Nintendo takes the win. I'm just saying this observation was perhaps less insane than "we're in last place, but 'offically' we're the leaders".

  • alpha-0ne #145 3 years ago

    You really do get the feeling that dear old kaz is sitting there in his ivory clad boardroom in japan looking at all the ps2 awards crying into his saki

    Seriously sony are a laughing stock in the development community

    So the cold hard facts are plain last in reality but #1 in the ivory boardroom and kaz's head, im sure the shareholders will be happy with them being #1 on the mind of kaz...
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/09 @ 20:09

  • KawzNFX #146 3 years ago

    This article can be a case study of delusion at some university. What a Class A idiot.

    @IneptPrecy I found a forum where the SDF is up in arms. http://ww w.n4g.com/industrynews/NewsCom-...
    they use comments like..."I get what he is trying to say" and " he has a good point". What the F#%$? It's official, Fanboyism IS a mental disorder.

    It's cool to see that the people posting here can see the bullsh*t for what it is... regardless of what console you support.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #147 3 years ago

    http://ww w.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt...

  • afghan_jones #148 3 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    The guy is a lunatic.

    No spin is better than idiot spin.

  • afghan_jones #149 3 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    The guy is a lunatic.

    No spin is better than idiot spin.

  • JackB #150 3 years ago

    Kaz has finally gotten the PS3 and 360 users to agree on something. And that something is that Kaz has finally lost it. This may be the single most hilarious comment out of a console exec this generation.

    Maybe he thinks it's still E3 2005 and people will just blindly believe him bullshit. There aren't many left who will. Kaz may have jumped the shark.

  • firefly #151 3 years ago

    Funny thing is that if they're not counting the Wii as competition Sony could theoretically still come out of this generation ahead.
    However this isn't going to happen if they just leave things alone and occasionally issue optimistic press releases - it requires action. They need to deal with reasons why people aren't buying PS3s, come up with a few new unique selling points, and just generally improve their marketing.
    -First off the price needs to come down, however they spin things it's a simple fact that market doesn't exist for a two year old games console that's still £300. I'd also argue they need to find a way to bring back full PS2 compatibility as backwards compatibility has always been one of the main things the PlayStation brand has had going for it.
    -Second, get some games. Invest in first and second party titles and try and secure some third party exclusives. Oh and try and follow the Microsoft model of actually having lots of exclusives every year rather than one or two that are hyped for several years and don't turn out to be worth the wait.
    -Finally. Advertise more, advertise better, and if you can't come up with sensible observations on the state of the market try to avoid saying anything at all.

    Oh and as for Home. Move on. It might evolve into something great but if MySpace and Facebook are the models you're going for then you missed out the part of launching silently and letting growth happen by word of mouth.

  • ronuds #152 3 years ago

    When Kaz says these types of things, it has to scare you if you happen to own a PS3 or were planning to buy one. I mean, this is what they're thinking over there at Sony - they're already the leader and such, so when you're getting games 3 years behind the curve you won't have to wonder why. In Sony's heads, at least, they're "innovative" in so much as they're "retro".

  • Dan234 #153 3 years ago

    "He hopes PlayStation Home will help there, by growing to a point where one type of consumer buys the PS3 solely for the virtual world, before discovering that there are are some games on the games console."

    Hmm, do I download and install Second Life for free or do I spend 300 quid on a Playstation?

    Mad as pebble.

    Or maybe he meant "one consumer buys the PS3 solely for the virtual world..."

  • Pinewood_Groves #154 3 years ago

    lol twat

  • mkreku #155 3 years ago

    Next time you build a console, balance the thing in processing power! Spend more on a powerful GPU, less on a weird-as-shit CPU, and make sure you put in enough RAM to go around. RAM is cheap! Maybe then you won't have to sound like a complete lunatic trying to explain your failure in the console race and your failure in console design, Kaz.

  • Nuada #156 3 years ago

    "This is not meant in terms of numbers, or who's got the biggest install base, or who's selling most in any particular week or month, but I'd like to think that we continue official leadership in this industry,"

    And I'd like to think that I come home from work every night and fuck the hole off Angelina Jolie before shooting massive wads of sticky cum all over her face but in reality I'm just a sad wanker who's paused the Boobie glimps in Hackers once too often :(

  • konniehuqfan #157 3 years ago

    i hope this numpty is sacked by the time i buy a ps3 :/

  • basalarmageddon #158 3 years ago

    LMAO!!! it's good to see that kaz is keeping ken kutaragi's tradition being batshit insane alive.

  • RobTheBuilder #159 3 years ago

    Bollocks.
    Bullshit.
    Rubbish.

    No wonder people don't like Sony anymore Hirai San.

  • tomnol #160 3 years ago

    When Kaz says these types of things, it has to scare you if you happen to own a PS3 or were planning to buy one.

    Since the success or failure of a company I don't work for and I don't own stock in doesn't affect my life in the least bit I fail to understand why I should be 'scared'. Neither does it affect my enjoyment of the PS3 in any way that the guy at the top of the pyramid has obviously lost his marbles. And should the very unrealistic case occur that Sony is forced to abandond console business altoge

  • juuken #161 3 years ago

    LOL, a bunch of fanbrats here who didn't read the article properly. Love how Sony's comments are always taken out of context and people don't learn how to fucking read!

    No wonder I don't come here often.

  • Kryon #162 3 years ago

    Juuken, Why don't you enlighten us as to how what Kaz has said makes total sense? Or can't you do that?

    ...Don't let the door hit you on the way out, bye now.

  • DjFlex52 #163 3 years ago

    Funny how Ninty isn't a Sony competitor now but just last week Sony compiled price comparison charts for all three consoles claiming the PS3 was the "best buy" ;)

  • The_vorlon_man #164 3 years ago

    This wont go down well with the punters methinks....


    Oh wait, it didnt.

    Was Kaz stroking a pure white pussy cat while doing this interview?


  • darkphoenix #165 3 years ago

    This guy is a comedian, top class!

    Seriously, WE WANT MORE FROM HIRAI NOW!

  • SwedBear #166 3 years ago

    Coin-Op: Yeah, because the Xbox 360 does of course not have any "untapped" power. The developers already have gotten everything out of it ... But you're right. "Next year", "just wait - soon the PS3's untapped power will become unleashed" yadayadayada.

    tomnol: It can affecs us as PS3 owners (got all 3 consoles) as it might indicate how the company will meet the future. If "Home" is their answer and they otherwise are happy, then the future does look bleak. if they actually think it is good that the PS3 is hard to develop on and thus do not want to help make it easier, then the future again looks bleak as it indicates that those "groundbreaking" titles will be few and far between as few developers will devote time to learn, if they do not plan any major revamp of XBL then again, again things look bleak for us PS3-owners since the whole online infrastructure and XBL is in need of update to bring it up in parity with Xbox Live.

    I really hope this interview was a joke or a fake since the stupidity of some of his comments was mindboggling.

  • Kami #167 3 years ago

    "LOL, a bunch of fanbrats here who didn't read the article properly. Love how Sony's comments are always taken out of context and people don't learn how to fucking read!

    No wonder I don't come here often."

    Oh we read it. We just can't believe what he said. Very hard to take it any other way - he's insulting us the consumer by telling a blatantly big fat porkie, he's insulting his competitors (par for the course but still), and worst of all - he insults the developers. You know, the people who make the games for their little console? The people who give us a reason to buy the machine in the first place? It's just unbelievable. The comment just abandoned all sense of logic and common sense and manners and out came a river of pure grade-A horse manure.

    Any lesser person would wake up this morning with a horses head beside them in their bed. Kaz Hirai just won't and he'll continue to preside over the PS3... and I just don't get it. I mean, are they passing something around at SCE? Because inquisitive minds would like to know (where to get some of it).

    Oh, and this breaking out a day before Sony announce their first losses in 14 years isn't going to make Hirai look like a stable individual. Even if the fanboys who buy the mag are grade-A twatfaces with barely a braincell to share, the fact they do not seem to care about their developers paints a pretty bleak future.

  • ChrisOTR #168 3 years ago

    He's on a different planet to the rest of us.

  • golfjerky #169 3 years ago

    Woweee. I have been living in a world where I was the only one to have seen that Sony is run by a bunch of morons. Now I come here and 184 out of the last 186 comments all sound like they came from people who see things as I do/have?!?! This is a momentus day. Who cares that Obama just got sworn in, I've got people on my side!

    I lol'd at comments on every page. My favorite was Kaz pulling for "RIIIDDDGGGGEE RRRAAACCCEEERRR"

  • gandhimaster #170 3 years ago

    That is the funniest thing i've ever read in my life.

    Altho, and i may be shot for saying this, PS2 was the same. Hardest to program for, longest life cycle.....

    Having said that, its competition was the dreamcast/N64 so i guess its irrelevant.

    lol

  • Kami #171 3 years ago

    Actually PS2 was very easy to develop for. Technically it was the weaker system, but it was cheaper to develop for and of course that is why people made lots of games for it. Same with the PS1 really. The Saturn was a pig to develop for and the N64, whilst easy to develop for apparantly, used carts so had higher costs. I mean, the pattern is pretty bloody obvious by now right? Easy to develop for = lots of games = $$$. Hard to develop for = Fewer games = Less Money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work this out by now.

    I do get the need for "positive spin". Really. But positive spin should not spiral into "steaming pile of shit". And it really shouldn't insult pretty much everyone who could potentially get (or are) involved with the PS3 in some way.

    I think that's what I don't get. Sony PR is rubbish at the best of times and we've all come to appreciate it. It's a laugh, you look down the hole and ask them how long they're going to keep digging, they shout back that they'll soon dig their way into the sky, we laugh. It's amusing. We find it amusing because even though they try to convince us they're above us, the fact remains they're still down the hole digging. However, I think this is a first that the man at the top turns around and pretty much insults the intelligence of their customers, their workforce, their developers and their competitors.

    /picard doesn't go far enough. However this does come fairly close to it. (Or this is the condensed facepalm-only version)
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/09 @ 06:51

  • UncleLou #172 3 years ago

    ""We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai."


    Unbelievable. And people whine when developers like Valve can't be arsed.

  • drumbaby #173 3 years ago

    Well, I did whine when they couldn't be arsed to make HL2 anyway near as good as HL1.

  • Les #174 3 years ago

    “Unbelievable. And people whine when developers like Valve can't be arsed.”

    I don’t agree with his ridiculous defense of why the PS3 is and should be hard to develop for but I do think that, for technology to really progress, it needs to let go of the antiquated (or ‘proven’, whatever label you like) paradigms every now and then. And that is bound to hurt for developers, pretty much like the introduction of the Wii Remote is hurting their brains to finally come up with something original and focused on gameplay, instead of graphics. But at the same time, I think a platform holder should do everything in its power to ease developers into using their new platform. If it is revolutionary from an architecture or control POV, at least make sure there are tools available that are easy for developers to dig into the power/capabilities of the new machine. In the end they do have to make a living.

    The attitude of idiots like Valve (if it’s not a lot like what we’ve been doing since pretty much ever, we won’t bother) is wrong from a theoretical, progress-minded POV though it can be defensible from a business POV.

    What I think is very funny is that in a lot of video game press there is talk about the balance of power shifting from Japan towards Western game developers. Remarks that Japanese developers have lost contact with the audience are quite common. But on closer inspection, the only thing Western developers are good at is creating formula games for the platforms that matter least 360/PS3 while Japanese developers have jumped on the successful Wii/DS bandwagon with loads and loads of original games. In reality, Western developers have turned into one-trick ponies, not able to adjust to the demands of the expanded audience and therefore blindly and stupidly concentrating on what they’ve always done: Putting an extra layer of shine on their stale game templates.

  • Xerx3s #175 3 years ago

    "He's on a different planet to the rest of us. "

    He's on the planet of the sdf. Just look at coinop there. I suppose that one needs to create an illusionary world to defend oneself when faced with such realities.

  • jebus #176 3 years ago

    @drumbaby "Well, I did whine when they couldn't be arsed to make HL2 anyway near as good as HL1."


    LOL - I thought it was just me that thought HL2 lame

  • kaerber #177 3 years ago

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

    Like, games?

  • HuggyAtHome #178 3 years ago

    Dear me. This is getting out of hand. What a total fool.

    By the way, to continue the Cilit Bang vs Vinegar side bar - does it have to be malt variety or will onion vinegar work too? Have some old jars in the cupboard and the kitchen needs a clean.

  • Redeye #179 3 years ago

    Bloody hell.

    I simply cannot wrap my brain around the sheer mind-crushing stupidity of what's fallen out of Hirai's gob, or those that would even consider trying to defend the indefensible. The complete ignorance of Nintendo's position in the market, the sarky dismissal of Microsoft and the 'we're the leaders' schtick can all be written off as corporate bollocks, but putting the boot into PS3 developers in such a fashion is akin to pulling a pin from a grenade then just waiting for it to go off in your hand.

  • HuggyAtHome #180 3 years ago

    @Coin-op

    Sorry Sir - you are officially madder than a bag of cats. End of.

  • gorf #181 3 years ago

    Think how the an SCE employees feels after Hirais utterences. Hardly a plan for the future. As for tapping into the true power of the PS3 at a later date (then catching up with MS/NINTENDO) thats going to be too late. Is there any evidence from history that this has happened in the past?
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/09 @ 09:56

  • Les #182 3 years ago

    '@Coin-op: Ever played Gears Of War 2? Now, play Resistance 2 after that. Nuff said..."

    Can't see Coin-op's comments so they're probably about as idiotic as this one... Indeed, nuff said.

  • BOFH_UK #183 3 years ago

    @Coin-op: "PS3 will continue to pull away graphically from Xbox 360 year on year from now on. Killzone 2 is just the start. People trash talk Sony over the price, but they were the only ones witha long term plan for their console.

    The rest are already looking a bit over the hill. "

    I see. Two things: 1) Kilzone 2 has had an ungodly amount of money plowed into it, a massive development cycle and major support from Sony. It is the exception, not the rule. In much the same way that a handful of games for the PS2 looked fantastic and the rest were usually equal or worse to the 'cube and Xbox. Let me put it this way - OTHER than Killzone 2 can you point to another title coming out in the next twelve months that looks significantly better than anything on the 360?

    2) How, exactly, will the PS3 be the best looking console over the long term? Let's assume your argument is right and the 360 only has, oh, another two years left to it while the PS3 has seven. At that point Micrsoft release the next Xbox, with full backwards compatibility, and the PS3 ends up looking like, well, a PS2 when compared to a 360. Who on earth is going to buy the PS3 at that point, especially if MS decide to keep the original 360 going as Sony did with the PS2 (which, let's face it, they'd be idiots not to if they can get the cost down to the £100 price point and with the back catalogue the 360 has, especially if the next Xbox is backwards compatible). That's the fatal flaw in the logic for the PS3's long term 'vision' - no matter what it will always be more expensive than the 360 and if, at any point, it takes a clear lead in power (which I doubt, it'll be like the PS2 all over again, a couple of gorgeous games, the rest on par with everything else) then all MS have to do is launch the next console generation.

  • Les #184 3 years ago

    “That's the fatal flaw in the logic for the PS3's long term 'vision' - no matter what it will always be more expensive than the 360 and if, at any point, it takes a clear lead in power (which I doubt, it'll be like the PS2 all over again, a couple of gorgeous games, the rest on par with everything else) then all MS have to do is launch the next console generation.”

    MS and Sony are rightly smacked fro pretending Nintendo isn’t the competition. Sony has little to fear from the 720 if it does a good job of extending as well as marketing PS3’s capabilities to make it more attractive to the expanded market. Going after the hardcore with a cutting edge machine is stupid from a business perspective. Just look at this gen. 360 is a piece of manufactured crap in order to keep the cost down and consists partly of antiquated technology and stock parts but still cost a ton of investments. It took a while to be able to sell it at a profit but much of that (all?) has gone with the recent price drop. PS3 is chucked full of new technology, investments were ridiculous and it is too expensive to appeal to the masses and is still sold at a loss, over two years in. But what really makes it stupid to pursue this route is the fact that with less costs, a bigger market and bigger profits can be realized as the Wii has shown.

    MS is in a shit position as the only way to make money is to alienate their core audience that expects a new machine within a year or two. Sony is in a shit position because it doesn’t have a clear target of who their market should be let alone are they able to sell their product at an attractive price in the short run without getting in even worse financial wheather. Long-term outlook for Sony might be better than MS’s though (just looking at the games division) if they acknowledge that who they’re really should be battling is the Wii and focus their resources on that instead of trying to please both the hardcore and the casual in equal measure. If they do that, the PS3 can really have a 10 year life span, maybe even longer.

  • UncleLou #185 3 years ago

    "The attitude of idiots like Valve (if it’s not a lot like what we’ve been doing since pretty much ever, we won’t bother) is wrong from a theoretical, progress-minded POV though it can be defensible from a business POV. "

    Sony made the decision to push a technology they have interest in outside of the Playstation brand and sacrificed developer friendliness for it. At least that's what I gathered from lots of interviews and articles over the years. In other words: they didn't care that it would take devs more effort to achieve the same results. And what Hirai says here confirms this.

    Your argument would only make sense if Sony had developed a technology that would bring great benefits to gaming in comparison to other platformsThen you could complain about "lazy devs" if they don't make use of it.

    I for one have no interest in a developer like Valve wasting valuable extra time instead of developing something new.

    Oh, and calling Valve "idiots" makes you look like a bitter fool. Just a tip.

  • Les #186 3 years ago

    "Your argument would only make sense if Sony had developed a technology that would bring great benefits to gaming in comparison to other platformsThen you could complain about "lazy devs" if they don't make use of it."

    They have developed technology that could bring great benefits to gaming. Developers have to realise that potential though. I'm not complaining about lazy devs, don't know what gave you that idea. I'm complaining about devs that are not open to change and just want to do what they always did the way they've always done it. And that is the message Valve transmits time and time again with their insistence on just supporting PC architecture. I can understand it from a short term business POV but as a long term strategic decision it's not that smart IMO and limits innovation.

    "Oh, and calling Valve "idiots" makes you look like a bitter fool. Just a tip."

    Why? "We're idiots" beams from every interview they give and press statement they release. I'm amazed that a company consisting of such morons can actually make such awesome games. HL2 is still the best FPS around and most of the stuff nowadays can't even hold a candle to part 1.

  • brappbrap #187 3 years ago

    I got here late unfortunately, but I would like say "bravo chaps". Not only the best article I have read on Eurogamer, but also the best comments.

    I can't add anything that hasn't been said a number of times before. Granted, there haven't been many "PS3LOL"s, so maybe i could stick another 3 or 4 of those here.

    Perhaps a "HiraiLOL"?

  • actionfitz #188 3 years ago

    hello_fi
    20-Jan-09 15:23:56

    I bet that Hirai's blue bus has the cleanest windows in the world

    ----

    lol.
    the wheels on the bus go round and round...
    seems like Sony's boss just had a minor brain fart.

  • UncleLou #189 3 years ago

    Why? "We're idiots" beams from every interview they give and press statement they release

    Ok...

    o_O

  • Dan234 #190 3 years ago

    They have developed technology that could bring great benefits to gaming. Developers have to realise that potential though. I'm not complaining about lazy devs, don't know what gave you that idea. I'm complaining about devs that are not open to change and just want to do what they always did the way they've always done it. And that is the message Valve transmits time and time again with their insistence on just supporting PC architecture. I can understand it from a short term business POV but as a long term strategic decision it's not that smart IMO and limits innovation.

    If I exaggerate things to the point of absurdity then you'll get the point the other poster was making. Let's go back a few years to the days when VGA 640x480 graphics cards were the dog's nads and say we have two machines; 1) A 386 PC connected to a VGA monitor and 2) Some strange contraption which is a Cray Supercomputer connected to a VGA monitor.

    We're writing software which hits the graphics card. Which, as a developer/publisher, would you choose; the 386 PC or this strange contraption? This contraption isn't particularly easy to program, has a low user base, and what's the return you get for all that extra development time if the graphics it puts out are just as limited as the other platform and most users couldn't really tell the difference?

    That in a nutshell is why the PS3 will fail. Platform longevity isn't related to difficulty developing software, especially when there's another platform around with a higher user base which can do more-or-less the same thing.

  • SchumiF1 #191 3 years ago

    Hahaha on all the PlayStation 3 haters! Everyone who knows the console and plays it also knows how awesome it really is, no denying that.

  • Les #192 3 years ago

    "If I exaggerate things to the point of absurdity then you'll get the point the other poster was making."

    I got the point the other poster was making. Your post shows you didn't get mine. Which is probably my fault as I made it poorly so I'll try again. ;)

    What Valve are saying is that things should stay the way they are. Same architecture that just gets faster as time moves forward. Real progress is about change. If things stay the way they are you get the uninspired stuff that's been released the last 2-3 years on 360 and PS3. And for that kind of crap, clearly the 360 is best suited as it is easiest to develop for and appears to be most affordable to the consumers it tries to reach. If Sony intended the PS3 to run that stuff, clearly they made a huge mistake as it's ill suited for that however you look at it. But look at the Wii. Clever piece of hardware that took the emphasis off of graphics. Revolutionary in that sense and matched well with what consumers wanted. It makes a much better return than both Sony's new tech box and MS's upgraded old tech box. Sony took the wrong gamble and will have to pay for it. Nintendo made the right gamble and reaps huge rewards. MS didn't really gamble and as such might break even.
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/09 @ 13:34

  • chicknstu #193 3 years ago

    They're PR gods!

  • Dan234 #194 3 years ago

    The main point I took from your post was "I'm complaining about devs that are not open to change and just want to do what they always did the way they've always done it".

    The thing is if the PS3 allowed developers do better things in a different way then it wouldn't be a problem. However the graphics card is only as capable as the 360's one so you're not allowed to do anything better and it also makes you do the same things in a different way.

    Maybe if developers were allowed to start with what they know instead of working so hard to get the same result and then were allowed to improve from there on then it could be claimed that the PS3 is a platform which has a longer lifetime than the rest.

    It's been out over two years now, developers really shouldn't be having these problems at this time. Valve probably decided it wasn't worth it, they've expressed more interest in the Wii than they have the PS3 in their press releases.

  • UncleLou #195 3 years ago

    What Valve are saying is that things should stay the way they are. Same architecture that just gets faster as time moves forward. Real progress is about change. If things stay the way they are you get the uninspired stuff that's been released the last 2-3 years on 360 and PS3.

    Don't tell me you still believe in the mystical PS3's power that just needs to be tamed, and will allow for miracles not possible on the "old" technology. Hello? Please. Valve are a PC developer first and foremost.

    And what do you actually suggest? That Valve now go PS3 exclusive? Because you said yourself just now the PS3 isn't suited for the "old ways of programming".

    First farticusmaximus in the "flower" thread, now this, a confused mess of unfounded PS3 hype and bitterness about Valve.

  • Les #196 3 years ago

    "However the graphics card is only as capable as the 360's one so you're not allowed to do anything better and it also makes you do the same things in a different way."

    What's with the obsession with graphics? And with PS3? I was reacting to a comment on people whining about developers like Valve. That's one developer that does nothing but showing a resistance to change. They don't like PS3 and Wii because they're not based on PC architecture like the 360 is. Those platforms make them do difficult work and they don't like that. Which is fine, it's their business decision. But I personally am glad not all developers think that way or gaming would be dead before this generation is over.

    As I said, PS3 is a poorly conceived platform if all it's used for is generating pretty pixels for yesteryear's games. 360 was optimized for that, PS3 isn't. So far, Sony have shown little though that justifies PS3's architecture change. But at least they took a gamble and for that I praise them. Sometimes they pay off big (like with PS2), sometimes you lose (like with PS3 as things stand currently). Nintendo took a gamble as well and it paid off big time. MS didn't take a gamble, didn't move things forward one iota and as such are lucky if they break even. They are a hit with gaming's traditional audience while the rest of the world remains cold. Nothing wrong with that except that it's too costly to just attract the core gamers. They demand pretty pixels and expensive GPUs which in turn ask for ridiculous development cost of the actual games which destroy profitability of everything that doesn't sell a couple of million units.

    So we pretty much agree on the state of things regarding PS3, as we did all along. It's too expensive and difficult to just be a 360-alike.

    "Don't tell me you still believe in the mystical PS3's power that just needs to be tamed"

    PS3 is definitely the most powerful console from a CPU perspective, nothing mystical about that. Whether that power can be put too good use in games is another thing. Just using it to create PC/360-like graphics is a waste IMO. So overall, I think Sony made a poor decision with the architectural change with PS3. Next to the skyrocketing cost of development that HD graphics brought, learning to program for a processor like Cell was too much to ask. Especially as limited demand for HD consoles means that for an HD title to have reasonable chances of actually making money it needs to be AAA and multi-platform, making taking advantage of platform strengths highly unlikely.

    "And what do you actually suggest? That Valve now go PS3 exclusive? Because you said yourself just now the PS3 isn't suited for the "old ways of programming"."

    One thing doesn't lead to another you know. I think Valve are idiots for resisting change for being change (as well as for slamming DRM while offering their own DRM but not calling it that way, amongst other things). It's just not a viable strategy in the long term and TBH it disappoints me from a company with roots in the mod scene, at the forefront of innovation. As things are now, Valve needs to decide whether they want to reach a mass audience (invest in building up a Wii capability) or just focus on the core gamer for which eventually the PC will be the only option. If they're happy with the gaming audience they're reaching right now, I don't think it makes much sense for them to invest heavily in the PS3.

    "now this, a confused mess of unfounded PS3 hype and bitterness about Valve."

    1) I'm not hyping PS3, I'm slagging it; 2) I'm not bitter about Valve, why should I? They've done nothing to harm me. Doesn't mean I can't think they're idiots. One doesn't preclude the other.
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/09 @ 15:34

  • Ryze #197 3 years ago

    Oh Well! I had faith in Kaz Hiai being the person to turn the PS3 around...

    ...until I read this bloody article!

    What a fool!

    @ Les

    So much bollocks in your comments - it's unreal. You seem like you're reasonably intelligent, but continually spout shite. Maybe you're just a dummy who can type reasonable English, so it's easy to read your shite.

    If M$ had put an 8 core Intel x64 into the 360 - bumping the price up to £600, but the games turned out just the same, would that suddenly make them innovative?

    From what I've seen, the 360 is 'shit' because they designed the case and cooling before finalising the spec, and they use noisy DVD drives that have to run at 12x, and will kill themselves in the long run.

    Where are the other problems? Lack of innovation vs. Sony? Really?

    Strange.

    /stops hating
    Edited by 2 at 21/01/09 @ 17:59

  • Les #198 3 years ago

    "So you haven't played either of them... "

    You really don't get it, do you... :(

  • Dan234 #199 3 years ago

    About the obsession with graphics.

    It's because the PS3, in spite of what's under the hood, has (more-or-less) the same controls, graphics, and sound as the 360. So, despite what's under the hood, whatever developers do they're limited to using those same ways of input and output. I mention graphics because it's being compared to the 360, but it could have had innovative sound or controls (like the Wii) but hasn't either.

    Yes, Microsoft didn't innovate in the 360, but in that respect it was a good decision, because it lowered costs for developers because they could build upon what they learnt for the XBox and the PC. What they have done is set up a decent online system which has set the bar for online gaming without the need to throw out everything learnt before. It's so good that people are willing to pay for it.

    We all know the Wii is also based on the Gamecube. The PS3 is completely different and in that respect Sony really did mess up and set back developers 1 or 2 years.

    Which brings us to the second point, developers (Valve)...

    If developers see that a platform is more expensive to develop for but is limited to similar results for the reasons given above and in the end games will have fewer sales, why would they want to develop for it?

    If Sony had allowed developers to build on what they learnt with the PS2 then Valve might have decided differently, considering the knowledge they've already gained from HL1.

    Before saying what they've said, Valve have probably tried developing something basic for the PS3 and maybe even tried porting Source and have probably found out that it's not worth the effort.

  • bonker #200 3 years ago

    "He can say what he likes- that's his right, but as the saying goes, "what goes on toast stays on toast""

    What?!

  • bonker #201 3 years ago

    "Rash'?


    .... "

    lol

  • bonker #202 3 years ago

    "i feel the need for one of your lists apologie, come explain to me why i need my PS3 "

    I was thinking *exactly* that when I read this :)

  • bonker #203 3 years ago

    "In 10 years the PS3 may well sell more units than the 360 but how many 720's will have been sold by then? "

    XBOX 1080's by then I would imagine :)

  • Les #204 3 years ago

    "It's because the PS3, in spite of what's under the hood, has (more-or-less) the same controls, graphics, and sound as the 360. So, despite what's under the hood, whatever developers do they're limited to using those same ways of input and output. I mention graphics because it's being compared to the 360, but it could have had innovative sound or controls (like the Wii) but hasn't either."

    They're vastly different on the sound front but never mind... And the way they process graphics are totally different as well. The fact that they can both output to 1080p HDTVs doesn't necessarily mean that their graphics need to look alike. That's more due to a lack of artistic vision on the part of the average developer. For some reason someone has decided that sterile HD graphics are the way to go and ever since then all game engines look alike. The spread of the gruesome UE3 probably has to do something with that as well.

    "We all know the Wii is also based on the Gamecube."

    And we all know developers struggle more to do something innovative with the new control scheme than they will ever struggle programming on the PS3. The first one requires actual talent, the latter mainly perseverance...

    "If Sony had allowed developers to build on what they learnt with the PS2 then Valve might have decided differently, considering the knowledge they've already gained from HL1."

    Would have made little difference, Valve only know DirectX. Every non-PC (xbox = PC) version of their games was developed by other parties. They just don't want to or can do anything else. But again, why the focus on PS3? Like I said, if anything, Valve should open up its eyes for Wii. Unless they want to be stuck forever with the PC hardcore market (as 360 and PS3 are likely to be the last ever hardcore consoles). And something tells me that with L4D sales being as they are, they probably won't.

  • Kami #205 3 years ago

    Altogether now!

    "And the way they process graphics are totally different as well. The fact that they can both output to 1080p HDTVs doesn't necessarily mean that their graphics need to look alike. That's more due to a lack of artistic vision on the part of the average developer."

    Umm, it entirely depends on the engine being used. I'd happen to say that you can argue this with Assassins Creed and Prince of Persia. Allegedly same engine used and both pretty. But drastically different styles. It is done, but making games is hard work! These people earn their money, trust me on this - I can program but nowhere close to how those guys can. When you're ploughing $X-million dollars into a project - any project - you also want to know that it's not going to alienate the market. This is why we see a lot of carbon-copies. It pays their overheads and the people who work their arses off to bring games to your ungrateful little doorstep. That makes sweet nuggets of goodness extra-specially sweet.

    "The spread of the gruesome UE3 probably has to do something with that as well."

    Companies are going to buy into an engine that has provenence. There have been known issues but you know, live and learn. You take a shortcut, you take a risk.

    "And we all know developers struggle more to do something innovative with the new control scheme than they will ever struggle programming on the PS3. The first one requires actual talent, the latter mainly perseverance..."

    Okay, you sort of have me here. However, we have seen numerous flashes of genius with how to use, wield and modify the Wii Remote. Yeah, sometimes it's shoehorned in but I'd like to take you to the PS2 and the disporportionate amount of shovelware that was released for it.

    Difference is though that developers have free reign on how to experiment with and use the Wii Remote.

    As for Valve, their choice. The PC "hardcore" market appears to be doing them quite nicely however so I can't really say I blame them.

  • UncleLou #206 3 years ago

    And something tells me that with L4D sales being as they are, they probably won't.

    What are the sales? Link, please. And no, NPD retail figures don't count.

    Besides, Valve have said ages ago that they're interested in the Wii. Pretty much an open secret that they're developing a Wii game.

    You also don't seem to quite understand that Steam is becoming something like a platform on its own.

    And man, Naughty Dog are such idiots. They really need to expand from the hardcore Japanophile market.

  • Les #207 3 years ago

    @Kami
    "When you're ploughing $X-million dollars into a project - any project - you also want to know that it's not going to alienate the market. This is why we see a lot of carbon-copies."

    Agreed. But as Wii shows, the average consumer is pretty cold with regards to HD games. With much smaller investments, better results can be generated, which opens the door for innovation and creativity. But I'm glad you mentioned PoP. Haven't played it yet (it's on its way to me as I could get it pretty cheap on eBay the other day - too much PS2 stuff still to finish to justify picking it up soon at full price as I probably won't play it before it's reached the discounts bins) but am looking forward to it. It's one of the few HD games that appears to take chances, that tries to do stuff differently and for that it cannot get too much praise.

    "However, we have seen numerous flashes of genius with how to use, wield and modify the Wii Remote. Yeah, sometimes it's shoehorned in but I'd like to take you to the PS2 and the disporportionate amount of shovelware that was released for it."

    My point is more that a ridiculous proportion of industry resources is currently allocated to generating pretty pixels while it's quite clear that graphics are irrelevant for expanding the video game market. Resources are wasted on projects with a low growth potential. I read an article in gamesTM the other day about how Japanese developers would lag behind their Western counterparts because in general they don't create much HD games. I think Japanese developers are the only ones to really realise that consumers don't care much for HD graphics or 40 hour single player games. They understand that if video games want to attract a large audience, they should be just one part of a person's entertainment diet, instead of trying to consume it all.

    The video gaming landscape has changed, whether its constituents like it or not. While in the past console makers focused on expanding the hardcore market, it has reached its limits in terms of growth potential. Nintendo realized that the real money is in expanding the market to the casual players. This is a serious threat for the traditional hardcore game with its excessive focus on graphics. A hardcore game requires a summer blockbuster investment while only reaching an art house audience. And to make matters worse, it also requires investment in a more expensive player.

    @UncleLou
    "Besides, Valve have said ages ago that they're interested in the Wii. Pretty much an open secret that they're developing a Wii game."

    If NDP data doesn't count, I think we can rule out open secrets as well... ;) But jumping on the Wii bandwagon would show that Valve can learn from past mistakes and that would definitely make them less idiotic (but still insincere with regards to their own DRM scheme and rip-off FX conversion rates).

    But I really fail to see why you got so wind up about my Valve remark. Yes I used the word 'idiot' and though it might be a bit strong for a general conversation, we're on the internet and it definitely got my comment noticed. Shame it overshadowed the rest of the conversation as all I was trying to say is that I didn't like their (initial?) change averse attitude (and I have some Steam related gripes with them as well but they're less relevant to this discussion) though I stressed from the very beginning I could understand it from a business POV.

  • Dan234 #208 3 years ago

    I don't get this. If you're saying too much is being put into graphics and sound and say that Japanese developers should be praised for concentrating on gameplay, the PS3 loses anyway (reducing the argument to winning and losing).

    In a game where gameplay is important, the PS3 loses because developing software for it is a pain in the arse.

    In a head-on competition against the 360 for graphics and sound the PS3 loses because its graphics and sound are restricted to the 360's level yet it's more difficult to develop for. (The PS3's chip is based on an nVidia so we're not talking about any otherworldy different technology here. The sound is also to all intents and purposes like the 360's.)

    In a competition against the Wii for casual games the PS3 loses because the console is aimed at a different market and the controller isn't suitable.

    I think developers and publishers are pragmatic, not lazy. At this stage Sony should have recognised that their hardware is terrible to develop for for no reward and by now should have made a devkit which makes developers' lives easier. Without developers on board you don't have anything.

  • sneetch #209 3 years ago

    @Les
    22-Jan-09 09:27:28

    @Kami
    "When you're ploughing $X-million dollars into a project - any project - you also want to know that it's not going to alienate the market. This is why we see a lot of carbon-copies."

    Agreed. But as Wii shows, the average consumer is pretty cold with regards to HD games. With much smaller investments, better results can be generated, which opens the door for innovation and creativity.

    Hang on, that's spurious logic, Wii owners want the Wii because the Wii is what they've heard of, it's what their friends got. The Wii is the iPod of the console world, synonymous with gaming for people who have never even heard of the Xbox 360 or PS3 (as it used to be in the 80's playing Nintendo).

    The absence of HD games on the Wii can't really be taken to mean that they don't care about HD games in the same way that if the Wii had HD graphics it couldn't be taken as proof that everyone wants HD games it's just something the console does or does not do. When it comes to buying a Wii HD doesn't enter into the equation for such consumers who may not even be aware that HD is an option in gaming.

    HD, although people keep talking about it as if it carries intrinsic costs, (it can if you want to pump up the poly count) is at it's most basic merely higher resolution: Mario Galaxy would look as good in 1080p as it does in 480p. Well, better actually. Throw some AA on top as part of the basic package provided by the chip and it would look awesome. With no need to spend a cent more on your models.

  • Les #210 3 years ago

    "I don't get this. If you're saying too much is being put into graphics and sound and say that Japanese developers should be praised for concentrating on gameplay, the PS3 loses anyway (reducing the argument to winning and losing)."

    No, you don't. :) I only said there's too much emphasis on graphics, not sound. I fail to see why the PS3 should lose when developers start to focus more on gameplay though. Yeah, it's harder to develop for but much of that is related to trying to make it do graphics in the way 360 does.

    The reason I think PS3 has more (if little) chances of challenging Wii than the 360 is that its audience isn't as hardcore centric and it has the in-house development talent to reach casual gamers. Has little to do with the hardware in the box which is more than adequate for pleasing the masses for years to come. Right now pricing stands in the way and the standard controller isn't suitable for the job, I agree. But a bigger focus on EyeToy, SingStar and the release of its own motion controller might counter that. Investing in stuff like Killzone 2 clearly will not.

    But I agree the fact remains that the PS3 is seriously overpowered and too costly for the job right now and as such was a bad investment decision from the part of Sony. But if they can learn from it and take countermeasures instead of trying to flog a dead horse, there might be hope left.

    "The sound is also to all intents and purposes like the 360's"

    Wrong. PS3 uses Cell for sound instead of a dedicated audio chip. It can do 7.1 uncompressed audio. That's completely different from the 360's capabilities. Will not matter though to the average consumer and will not impact the outcome of the battle with 360.

    "I think developers and publishers are pragmatic, not lazy."

    I think developers and publishers are first and foremost stupid and then pragmatic, but not lazy (I never used that word, that was Lou). They fail to recognize that they've been betting on the wrong horses. Gaming as it used to be will never reach mainstream, its audience will diminish rather than grown as the casual alternatives start to get better and better. It's a sign of the industry's immaturity that it takes so long to adjust to the changed circumstances. Developers consist mainly of hardcore gamers that want to create what they want to play themselves rather than what the public craves. Publishers often consist of former developers and are in a poor position to judge in which projects to invest.

  • Les #211 3 years ago

    "The absence of HD games on the Wii can't really be taken to mean that they don't care about HD games in the same way that if the Wii had HD graphics it couldn't be taken as proof that everyone wants HD games it's just something the console does or does not do. "

    True. As a short-cut I use the term "HD games" for games that primarily focus on graphical fidelity. Of course Wii Sports would be just as popular if it used the same in-game assets but output in 1080p. My point is more that while the hardcore want ever more realistic graphics, the masses don't care about that at all. Till the Wii it was generally assumed that non-gamers didn't get games because they didn't look 'real'. Wii shows that non-gamers didn't get games because they didn't like the content of the games themselves and don't care much about 'realness' of graphics. But I could have expressed myself better, thanks for your feedback.
    Edited by 1 at 22/01/09 @ 11:09

  • sneetch #212 3 years ago

    @Les
    True. As a short-cut I use the term "HD games" for games that primarily focus on graphical fidelity. Of course Wii Sports would be just as popular if it used the same in-game assets but output in 1080p. My point is more that while the hardcore want ever more realistic graphics, the masses don't care about that at all. Till the Wii it was generally assumed that non-gamers didn't get games because they didn't look 'real'. Wii shows that non-gamers didn't get games because they didn't like the content of the games themselves and don't care much about 'realness' of graphics. But I could have expressed myself better, thanks for your feedback.

    Fair enough, in that case I agree completely, well said.

    The obsessive focus on improving presentation (especially graphics and physics) would be better switched to improving the experience of playing the games. Personally, if it comes down to a choice between graphics and physics or gameplay I'll go for gameplay every time. I've lost track of the number of games I've got that that looked amazing, had realistic and highly detailed physics but played like soggy cardboard, games where the developers spent so much time tweaking the gibs and particle effects that they forgot to add the fun. Thank you for your feedback on my feedback. ;)

  • Dan234 #213 3 years ago

    @Les

    Wrong. PS3 uses Cell for sound instead of a dedicated audio chip. It can do 7.1 uncompressed audio. That's completely different from the 360's capabilities. Will not matter though to the average consumer and will not impact the outcome of the battle with 360.

    I was always under the impression, and the specs that I had read said, that it had Dolby Surround 5.1 like the 360. I'll revise that piece of trivia.

    So why are developers "stupid" because they "fail to recognize that they've been betting on the wrong horses"?

    If you're saying the PS3 is overpriced and overpowered for the market, then surely developers are right for not bothering with it, so it's not a case of stupidity. Maybe they can be charged with "resisting change" but change for change's sake, if it would lead them down an evolutionary dead end as the PS3 is looking like it's turning out to be, would be stupidity. The way things are going there are two clear markets, defined by what the 360 and the Wii offer and who buys them. The PS3 is rapidly turning into an also ran.

    If Valve (and other developers) specialise in FPSs, have low development costs on the 360 doing them, and have a market to sell their games to then I'm not sure what the problem is. If people get bored of FPSs then change will come. Maybe they'll bring their games to the Wii after seeing how The Conduit does or maybe they'll move into other genres if sales of FPSs start to flag.

  • Les #214 3 years ago

    "If you're saying the PS3 is overpriced and overpowered for the market, then surely developers are right for not bothering with it, so it's not a case of stupidity"

    The stupidity lies in the fact that they still put 90% of resources in generating high cost, high risk, low return games for 360 and PS3. Easier profits can be realized on Wii but what's even more important is that future players can be reached through that system.

    I'm not saying developers aren't bothering with PS3, clearly they are, most titles being multi-platform nowadays. I'm saying they should stop with doing what they're doing right now on 360 and PS3 and that they'd be better off making Wii games instead or trying to find ways in which to actually harness all that processing power in 360 and PS3 in a way that matters to the expanded audience.

    But what's quite ironic is that the two companies in the fiercest battle this gen actually are better off if their competitor is doing well than they are if the competitor would stall. Only combined PS3 and 360 have a chance to seriously oppose Wii and prevent publishers from totally jumping ship and leave them with little content. PS3 and 360 right now need each other.

  • Dan234 #215 3 years ago

    But what we're seeing now is a symptom of that, either developers not bothering with a PS3 version or just going porting the 360 version to the PS3 but not really trying (choppy frame rate, etc...) due to the high cost of development.

    Eventually, if the PS3 seals its reputation as the console with crappy ports of some 360 stuff and no ports of other 360 stuff and few exclusives which make up for it, sales will shift completely over to the 360. Who wants to pay more for less? At that point developers end up dropping the PS3 altogether.
    Edited by 2 at 23/01/09 @ 09:46

  • Les #216 3 years ago

    "Eventually, if the PS3 seals its reputation as the console with crappy ports of some 360 stuff and no ports of other 360 stuff and few exclusives which make up for it, sales will shift completely over to the 360."

    By now that fate seems unlikely as PS3 ports only get better* and the public where PS3 needs to get its growth from don't know or care about the porting difference at all. But if you only play multiformat games, don't care about region-free-ness, don't want to play online, don't care about a higher risk of losing it now and then for a few weeks because of repairs and don't use the system for anything else but games then the PS3 is not your best choice, agreed.

    The train is rolling for MS and Sony and they now have to make the best of it. But in hindsight (which is always easy), they could have invested their money much better.

    * Devs have come to grips with it and realise that if they want to continue creating stuff they like versus what the massses want, the 360 brand simply isn't good enough outside the States & UK so it's in their interest to make the PS3 versions as good as possible, within reason of course.

  • Penguins20 #217 3 years ago

    umm...as an Xbox and Wii owner, does anyone care how long until the next console generation as long as the games keep coming?
    what's to stop MS holding out until just before the PS4 is released...call Sony's bluff as it were.

    Theoretically, PS3 could pull the same turnaround that the PSP has, but as yet this has only happened in Japan and shows no sign of happening here. I guess it's easier for Kaz to say this stuff when he's sitting in a country where Sony's most unsuccessful product in an age has suddenly been heralded as Handheld Jesus. (I love my PSP by the way, but there's only so long you can play Patapon and Crisis Core for).

    That includes you Valve...more games please.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/09 @ 12:53