Why Natal cost-cutting makes sense

But will performance suffer?

According to GamesIndustry.biz, Project Natal will launch in a cut-down format, omitting the originally planned onboard processor, which will see its workload hived off to the Xbox 360's CPU.

The story cites developer sources who claim the move from hardware to software serves at least two different purposes. Firstly, in order to keep hardware costs manageable Natal needs to launch cheaply to ensure take-up, and Microsoft will not want another loss-leading product. Secondly, and more intriguingly, the story suggests the move from hardware to software presents Microsoft with the ability to upgrade Natal's capabilities via software, and also allows for greater flexibility developer-side.

First up, let's tackle the credibility of the story itself. As it happens, the latest CES press materials from Microsoft itself seem to obliquely confirm it. Natal's make-up is described as consisting of "RGB camera, depth sensor and multiarray microphone running proprietary software" - so no mention of the internal processing chip at all. This ties in with Digital Foundry's experience of the Natal demos at last year's gamescom where it appeared that a PC was used to process Natal input, while a 360 devkit actually ran the games.

Just what impact this has on performance in the final product remains to be seen. Even in Microsoft's own single-player demos, analysis of video taken during our one-on-one with the system suggests latency is an issue, with anything up to 200ms in overall lag on a mini-game where Natal is processing just one complete human skeleton. This video illustrates the issue clearly.

Pre-production demos of Natal suggest that the advanced motion detection algorithms do impact input latency - here we see total lag at around 200ms. Will it be optimised for the final release?

More recently, leaked video showing purportedly showing Half-Life 2 played via Natal suggested even more of a lagged experience compared to what was seen at gamescom, and there have been several rumblings from developers that the latency, in concert with the lack of any sort of conventional controller, is going to cause issues.

Traveller's Tales director Jon Burton is one of the few to have gone on the record, telling Develop that "[Natal is] exceedingly clever, but the lag on the input and lack of physical buttons is really going to restrict the kind of games that can be done with it."

While GamesIndustry.biz's source talks about a 100ms latency for the controller, presumably this does not factor in the lag inherent in console gameplay itself. Lag tests suggest that the absolute fastest that a 30FPS game can update is 100ms, and the gamescom test suggests that the latency described by GamesIndustry.biz's source is added on top of that. That's for a single player. Factor in the support for up to four players, and you do have to wonder what sort of performance impact this will entail for multiplayer games.

Natal director Kudo Tsunoda is on the record as suggesting that patches for existing titles to enable support for the motion sensor aren't likely to happen. If the Natal software layer does indeed run on the Xenon CPU, this makes sense. Natal will want its own chunk of CPU time and while it is unlikely that all existing games max out the triple core chip, they will definitely not be developed or optimised with Natal's overhead in mind. It's unlikely to be cost-efficient to support Natal on an existing title if major re-engineering is required.

However, this has both its bad and good points. In terms of competition, Microsoft is going to find that a lot of multiplatform titles available on Xbox 360 will get motion control upgrades on the rival PS3 platform (Resident Evil 5, for starters). More support from more games, particularly if you already own them, makes a motion control purchase more appealing.

However, on the plus side, this means that the games we do see on Natal will hopefully be tailored especially for the control system as opposed to being unimaginative afterthoughts - so fingers crossed we won't see the equivalent of the ubiquitous plank-walking that was added to several PS3 games simply in order to tick off Sixaxis motion sensor support. You would think that committing a serious level of CPU time to the control system will be matched by the commitment level in terms of how it is utilised.

It's unlikely that this scaling back of Natal will have any impact on the quality of the final product, so long as the software layer matches or preferably exceeds the performance of what we played at gamescom. This news makes sense in making Natal an affordable upgrade, and an inexpensive addition to existing SKUs: the lower cost is much more attractive than the notion of motion control upgrades to the current library of 360 games which were never designed for use with this hugely innovative system.

Looking forward to the next generation of console, assuming the controller-free interface takes off, integration at the design stage should all but eliminate any latency problems.

In the meanwhile, not much has changed from our initial conclusions having tested Natal at gamescom. Whether the processor is in the camera or working via software within the 360 is close to an irrelevance in the greater scheme of things: the system is so new and so divorced from current control methods that games are going to have to be tailored to its strengths, which are considerable, as well as the weaknesses.

Adding waggle to existing titles met with limited success on Wii - it was the games that used motion control intuitively and innovatively that worked, and so it will be with Natal.

Comments (38) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • TheNinkyNonk #1 2 years ago

    I predict a fail. How very juvenile of me.
  • Spydy #2 2 years ago

    Yikes. No mention of any games as yet, considerable lag and hardware cut backs.

    If it's packaged with a re-designed SKU though, it maybe worth considering.
  • originaljohn #3 2 years ago

  • mkreku #4 2 years ago

    How did New Super Mario Bros on the Wii use the motion control "intuitively and innovatively"? That was a success, wasn't it? All I remember was shaking the controller violently once in a while..

    Also, I imagine the real reason why motion control was a success on the Wii was because it was the only controller that came with the system. This is what both Microsoft and Sony should have done from the beginning: bundled it with the console. Too late now, I know, but that way you'd have it in every console owning home by now.

    A good example to look at is the headset on the Xbox 360: because it was bundled, everyone on Live uses voice chat. It wasn't bundled with the PS3 and you rarely get a full team in any online games where everyone has voice chat
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/10 @ 14:19
  • Demikaze #5 2 years ago

    Oh. That's put a bit of a dampener on the whole thing.
  • Psychotext #6 2 years ago

    "In terms of competition, Microsoft is going to find that a lot of multiplatform titles available on Xbox 360 will get motion control upgrades on the rival PS3 platform (Resident Evil 5, for starters)"

    I would assume that the processing of the wand controllers is handled by the PS3 internally too (given that we already know it works with the standard eye-toy), so there's obviously overhead there too. Though obviously not as much as Natal as it's dealing with far fewer data points.
  • Dyason #7 2 years ago

    Personally this won't be for me. Maybe it will be for the people who saw the Wii as something fun to buy, but then they've bought the Wii anyway . . .

    I also predict a fail.
  • Demikaze #8 2 years ago

    I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra (around the £100 mark) for a chip; anything to offload strain to the GPU, otherwise you'll never be playing games like Halo or whatever using this technology. Yes, of course it can be said that a lot of developers don't push the Xbox to its limits, but most do the best they can. Surely, this will mean we won't get the visual fidelity that we enjoy now?
  • Eraysor #9 2 years ago

    After buying and neglecting a Wii since launch day, I certainly don't see myself using Natal much.
  • FogHeart #10 2 years ago

    Essentially, any game that will optionally use Natal will need to be designed to accommodate the performance hit that the product entails. It's a decision that every game made after launch would need to consider: will we go for higher performance or include support for Natal?

    Of course it's possible to design a game to cut out some eye candy if Natal is enabled...but gamers using Natal won't be happy with that!
  • RexRunti #11 2 years ago

    @Demikaze

    Why do you think they'll be extra strain on the GPU it's the CPU that'll be doing the work?
  • Darren #12 2 years ago

    Project Nadal is sounding less and less exciting the further we get away from that admittedly impressive E3 presentation but, in all honesty, this isn't really something that interested me anyway beyond controlling the 360's interface in a Minority Report like way with hand movements. Then I'm reluctant to spend £50 on an add-on just for that. Shifting the processing from hardware to software doesn't sound very encouraging either because it seems it will compromise the add-on somewhat.

    Good luck to Microsoft and all that but I can't help feeling that Project Nadal would have worked better had it launched with a brand new console from Day One rather than been sold half way through the 360's life. As it is there are 39 million Xbox 360 users out there, sure, but I'd guess at only a minority of those people will bother buying the add-on which only works with some but not all games anyway. Maybe it'll attract new gamers to the Xbox 360 though (the same casual audience that like the Wii) or maybe Microsoft are just using this as an experiment to see what control scheme to include with the Xbox 360's successor?

    By the way I feel equally apathetic toward Sony's PS3 wand too...
  • zisssou #13 2 years ago

    Something else peter molyneux has been invovled in that won't live up to the hype.
  • Machiavellian #14 2 years ago

    Interesting enough, there are a lot of you predicting fail. I just wonder if you are the same people who also predicted fail for the Wii when you never even touched the device.
  • gjgjg #15 2 years ago

    will the casual gamer market care about lag? thats who its aimed for, so win for them.
  • jambo74 #16 2 years ago

    needs some 18 rated titles.....
  • jambo74 #17 2 years ago

  • Demikaze #18 2 years ago

    Sorry Rex, I actually meant CPU, but you know what I mean! :)
  • ClintEastman #19 2 years ago

    According to Alex Kipman (Natal Lead Dev) in an article on New Scientist says the Natal will consume 15% of the CPU.
    Now I'm guessing that most 360 games don't use 100% of the CPU, GPU maybe. So for me this is good news, cheap means more uptake which means more games!

    http://ww w.newscientist.com/article/mg20...

    Forgot to mention, that article was published today.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/10 @ 17:24
  • Demikaze #20 2 years ago

    You could say that it is aimed squarely at the casuals, but it doesn't have to be. The technology could be used in very interesting ways outside of casual gaming. The Xbox isn't really a casual machine; I mean, I own a Wii, all my non-gamer friends have a Wii, that's the mainstream device. I may be wrong, but the Xbox system sellers are the Gears of War, Halos, and Fifas, not Brain Training XII. So yes, it probably will bring some casuals to the system, but the primary established userbase, all tens of millions of them, are also pretty excited about its prospects too.
  • linea #21 2 years ago

    to be honest I think even with a lot of lag it's got a lot of potential.

    OK, it might be useless for twitch gaming but the thing is, I saw my (60 year-old) mum playing computer games over christmas thanks to the wii and its less scary controller. Never thought I'd see that happen.

    Remove the controller completely and I'd probably have been able to persuade my nan to have a go.

    And she only ever buys the Daily Mail with her pension so I'd imagine there's a lot of latent buying power there. All MS need to do is release a Vera Lynn-sponsored rationing simulator and they'd be quids in ;)

  • HandOfBeadle #22 2 years ago

    Clint,

    you'll struggle to find a dev who is purposefully leaving a single percent of the hardware performance unused. Whenever devs say something along the lines of "we are only using 70% of the CPU", they aren't saying that they are using 70% of the CPU at full efficiency and 30% is sitting around untouched. They are using all of the performance they can, just not as efficiently as they think they could if they had the time to overhaul their engine in areas they've left imperfect due to deadlines.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/10 @ 17:55
  • Kaminari #23 2 years ago

    The impact on the Xenon is already known: 15% of CPU time, which is a huge counterpart if you ask me.
  • Chufty #24 2 years ago

    Natal isn't about playing Halflife or Burnout. It will be great for a slew of casual games that will sell in average quantities. I'm sure one or two XBLA gems will come out that utilise it in more interesting and imaginative ways.

    The 200ms lag, although ridiculously high, is not an issue for many applications. Tacked-on Natal support for FIFA 2011 and Gears 3, however, is not going to set the world on fire. And it's too laggy for support to be anything other than tacked-on.
  • sanctusmortis #25 2 years ago

    All Natal needs is games that are suited to it, where lag isn't a massive issue; the best Wii games, for instance, work well despite the inaccuracies of the system, and some make it a non-issue altogether. I'm sure with the sort of partners MS has (Rare, Epic, Ruffian, Lionhead, Bungie et al) they can do a similar level ofwork to Nintendo's first party Wii stuff.
  • Alkeno #26 2 years ago

    The only good part that I see is that there was no real choice... either cheap Natal or no Natal at all (because a 100€ or more add-on is a very tough sell and almost ensures failure).

    However, I believe there is room for hope. Not being a 360 dev it's hard to know, but maybe there are CPU cycles to spare for Natal even on many AAA titles today (yes, I too believe current-gen consoles are GPU limited... quite possible on 360 and a pretty sure bet on PS3).

    And that is also rather mew news for Microsoft. If Natal is just "RGB camera, depth sensor and multiarray microphone running proprietary software" then their only true advantage against Sony is depth sensor and the proprietary software. It's a huge advantage still (depth sensor is key and MS has decades of accumulated R&D on software that is key for Natal).
  • malmer #27 2 years ago

    Lag isn't a such a big issue at all when we're talking moving our whole bodies in response to what is happening on the screen. Sure, you can move your arms pretty fast, but you still got way more inertia than you do in your analogue stick thumb.

    As for the 10-15% CPU usage I'd say it doesn't matter at all for most games. Gears 1 only uses one of the cpu cores afaik, and it looks and plays well. And a game that only does, for instance, head-tracking, don't even have to track the whole body.

    What matters though is games. And unless there are any good games it doesn't matter how well or bad it performs. However, if there are good games that doesn't matter that much either. I think it will be good. I'll stay from bashing this until it is actually released and ready.
  • Lee_Morris #28 2 years ago

    Microsoft have really come out of this badly. Good job they had the Games Room announcement. TBH I always thought the most useful aspect of the camera would be the mic. Rather than wave your hands around, like you just don't care, to scroll through menus, you could just say ' play game' and it plays the dvd in the tray. Or you 'Tv' and the sky player starts up. I don't get why people like the thought of moving their hands about in the air instead of remote or joypad. Sure the novelty factor is there but surely that would wear off after a while. It's to be hopes Microsoft show some actual games at E3 as Sony will have already released (probably) the wand and RE5 will be out with it.

    Time will tell all.
  • vegard #29 2 years ago

    to me it's simple: they need to dish out some amazing, intinuitive games for natal at launch. then i might buy one.
  • dsmx #30 2 years ago

    Doesn't this mean that natal is now the same as sony's eye toy for the PS2?
  • toy_brain #31 2 years ago

    Like EyeToy?
    Pretty much.

    Aftermarket hardware add-ons have a long history of not gaining any traction, and aftermarket hardware add-ons that actively remove CPU cycles have even less of a chance of catching on.

    I doubt Sonys glowing wands will have any more luck either, as all those PS3 and 360 gamers that have turned away from the Wii (y'know, the ones that didn't bother to buy Dead Space: Extraction, or MadWorld, or HOTD Overkill) probably view motion control as the gift they never asked for.
  • hesido #32 2 years ago

    Will you do an input latency mini-analysis for PS3 motion controller? Apparently there's a bit of a lag there too, visible even at normal speed video play..
  • GreyBeard #33 2 years ago

    Memory usage is the main issue for Natal, if its back-ending all its computation onto the CPU that means that it seems likely that the entire z-buffer image generated by the IR camera is going to be stored in system Ram. After all, if thousands of calculations are going to be performed to analyze the image then the latency incurred by every interrogative process needing to be made via USB would add a colossal overhead to the process.

    So, you need the raw IR data, possibly the optical light frame, two channels of audio-input, plus whatever buffers are required for motion calculation, and the memory footprint of the Natal libs that are using all this data. That's a significant overhead.
  • secombe #34 2 years ago

    What's the lag on Motion Plus, out of interest? Grand Slam Tennis 'feels' just right, but I've no idea of the technical stuff behind it.
  • Ryze #35 2 years ago

    They need to win us over again with some positive - and realistic demos of this in action.

    Show a hardcore type game with Natal features, some of the dashboard navigation, as well as the casual stuff.

    In a game like GTA, I'd be happy just being able to carry out the odd simple gesture such as grabbing ladders or making a gesture to holster my weapon, seeing as they've not allowed me to do this in the same manner as turning off the radio - i.e. holding the d-pad left/right.

    I've only considered this stuff in my head however - I'm not in their R&D labs, so hopefully they can impress us with something much more interesting before launch.

    Also, ideally they'd get a Jade Raymond character to do PR, rather than just sticking with Tsunoda. He's not all bad, but it's hard to believe or listen to his 'WWF/WWE' hype yap sometimes.

    Just a thought...
  • weejok #36 2 years ago

    Every time I watch that video I just want to slap the bloke in it! Why does he look over his shoulder at the camera in such a smug arrogant way?????

    Anyway I'm not getting too excited by Natal untill it's on shop shelves and I've seen some real feedback/reviews on it. If it works then it could be a lot of fun.
  • thubie #37 2 years ago

    Natal as extra with controller perfect example for a FPS.
    People that cant see the potential in natal are kinda ignorant for motion control or are way to stuck up on Natal=Wii

    [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=qWkpdtFZoBE[/url]]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=qWkpdtFZo...[/link]
  • oreillymj #38 2 years ago

    Even though Natal seems ahead by being controlerless, I actually think it's a disadvantage. I always found that the eyetoy games were you stood around waving in front of the camera left you feeling disconnected from what was going on on-screen.

    BTW - Sony's system will be fairly optimised as the dot tracking used to follow the wands has been around since Eyetoy on PS2 so it can't be using a huge amount of CPU. it's also pretty mature software wise.

    I'm not sure either system will end up being much more then a gimmick.