BioWare man: FFXIII is "not an RPG"

By Tom Bramwell Published 14 May, 2010

SWTOR writer courts controversy.

Final Fantasy XIII is not a true RPG by BioWare's definition, according to Star Wars: The Old Republic writing director Daniel Erickson.

"You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG," Erickson told Strategy Informer, after the site suggested FFXIII had an excellent story but slightly tedious gameplay.

"You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character," Erickson continued. "I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPGs."

The BioWare man admitted that his comments would be "controversial".

Final Fantasy XIII, which came out on PS3 and Xbox 360 in March, puts players in control of several characters within the worlds of Pulse and Cocoon. Whether or not you think it's an RPG, we thought it was "faultlessly accomplished, gorgeous to behold and, in the long run, thoroughly enjoyable" and awarded it 8/10.

Erickson is currently working on Star Wars: The Old Republic. Yesterday we reported on the game's new Advanced Class system, although BioWare continues to avoid questions about a lot of the MMO bits. SWTOR is due out some time in 2011.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (85) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • menage #1 2 years ago

    Well, he's spot on in my book, nothing to do with the term RPG whichever way you turn it.

    It's also the most boring thing I played in the last 5 years. And I played all (well almost) FF games till the end, couldn't even bother with this one.

    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 08:31

  • Inigo #2 2 years ago

    JRPGs have never had choice or character builds, that doesn't make them an less a RPG. MW2 has charater builds and level ups, is that a RPG. Its a fools game to try to work out whats a RPG.

  • Guitarnerd87 #3 2 years ago

    Yup, loved 7,8 and 10 but hated 12. Got 13, was ok just a bit boring really, was far far too slow and the story didn't really grab me like the others had. Ended up trading it in for uncharted 2, quite possibly the best decision I've ever made!

  • BritishBlue1 #4 2 years ago

    Well, he's got a point...

  • PoundHound #5 2 years ago

    Traditional RPGs, e.g. Secret Of Mana, FF7, etc. didn't require decision making. Square Enix could argue that Mass Effect 2 isn't an RPG because you don't build a character. All the things I would consider crucial to an RPG were removed from ME2. Weapons and armour were dumbed down and attribute points were meaningless because there were so few to fill.

    For the record I think ME2 is miles better than FF13, but is it more of an RPG? I think not.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 08:41

  • huckan #6 2 years ago

    FFXIII came through the post today so when my xbox is returned RROD clear I'll make my judgement although in principle I've always though of an RPG as evolving with the character as it itself progresses so.... yeah, I think he's right ;)

  • ZeroAX #7 2 years ago

    aaaah. look at the little fellow being jealous.

  • menage #8 2 years ago

    Well, I won't say ME2 is an RPG, a bit more than FFXIII maybe casue you do steer your chara down a certain path and have al these team options. But Bioware makes more games than ME.

    "JRPGs have never had choice or character builds, that doesn't make them an less a RPG. MW2 has character builds and level ups, is that a RPG. Its a fools game to try to work out whats a RPG. "

    JRPG's have never been RPG mostly. Getting a small, medium, large ice/water/firespell after you beat enough slimebeasts is just wacking the button long enough for the spell to appear in your inventory. No choice or influence whatsoever. Same with MW2, ME2, etc.

    Stat fiddling is what it's called, and the comp does most of the fiddling.

    I actually think Fable 2 is more of an RPG than most games, but I'll probably get burned for that.

    "aaaah. look at the little fellow being jealous. "

    I would be jealous too of an overblown fashion simulator. He's working on a SW game for Bioware for godsake.

    Edited by 5 at 14/05/10 @ 08:50

  • the_dudefather #9 2 years ago

    Everyone I talk to about ME1 + 2 always refer to 'their' Shepard, and talk about what decisions and actions they took through the story, as well as how they built their character both trough skills and alignment

    Mostly though, games as RPGs have more often than not missed the point (if you are depending on stats for combat and you get XP, it's an RPG! etc)

  • Doctor_What #10 2 years ago

    Well... I see his point, but in FFXIII you are given a Role which you then Play in the Game. He seems to be saying that choosing the role is what makes an RPG, whereas you could say that acting as a coherent character in the universe is the true nature of a RPG. Then again, all games put you in a role (except perhaps puzzlers) so trying to define what is and isn't a RPG is pretty pointless.

  • iamian #11 2 years ago

    Surely if anything it is more of a Role Playing Game in that you have to play the way the character in the game is. In a game where decisions and character build are defined by the player, then you're playing less of a role and more of yourself?

  • Tangled #12 2 years ago

    Semantics. If you went by the name, most computer games can be called role-playing anyway, since you assume the role of... (substitute: karate master, FBI agent, small donkey etc.) Personally, I think 'RPG' in games means an inclusion of a stat/exp system nowadays. That's what comes to mind when you mention "RPG elements".
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 08:59

  • hiddenranbir #13 2 years ago

    You don't make any meaningful choices in Bioware games either, so...meh.

    Only strategy games like Civilization give you meaningful choices because they are made at any possible moment and can completely change the course of your game's narrative. All the choices I made in ME2 still ended with the same narrative only in a red or blue tint.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 08:59

  • Ninja_Tino #14 2 years ago

    Defining an RPG is like defining Postmodernism: fucking tough! Surely in every game I'm playing a particular role, so RPG must mean a role that I get to make important decisions for. In this regard a mass (oh!) of Bioware games become RPGs but who actually coined the phrase? Was it originally attached to JRPGs like Final Fantasy? Also, as has been said already, surely the act of levelling our character is us playing a role in our avatar's progression, which of course also is a feature in a plethora of games nowadays, in particular first person shooters, which many would have argue are definitely not RPGs. I can hardly see the JRPG developers of Japan stepping down and saying 'yeah we don't actually make RPGs when you think about it. Cheers, Bioware!' It's a stupidly broad genre and, at the end of the day, who cares what's considered an RPG? As long as we enjoy what we play. Apologies if this message is fragmented and/or makes no sense at times: iPhone, innit.

    This took an age to write so sorry for inadvertantly echoing points.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 09:04

  • JamieR #15 2 years ago

    What a RPG is a game where you improve your characters states as you progress and has a very strong storyline.

  • Vanmunt #16 2 years ago

    ME2 & FF13 were both a massive disapointment....

  • Ninja_Tino #17 2 years ago

    JamieR, I would consider the God of War series to hav. A strong storyline and my character's and weapons' stats improve throughout. Does this make God of War an RPG? Or Ninja Gaiden (minus the strong storyline, of course :-) ).

  • Widge #18 2 years ago

    The thing to ask is "does it matter if it is or isn't an RPG?".

  • Aurain #19 2 years ago

    Coming from Bioware? HAHAHAHA.

    I loved ME 1 and 2, Dragon Age, KOTOR 1 and 2.
    They're no more RPG than FFXIII in anyway shape or form.

  • metalangel #20 2 years ago

    This is like goths arguing that other goths "aren't as goth" as they are.

  • tachometer #21 2 years ago

    ME2 hasn't even got a fucking inventory!

  • mr_shoe_uk #22 2 years ago

    I guess in some senses it is not an RPG, but neither are most 'RPG' computer games.

    Who cares? You know what you're getting.

  • kangarootoo #23 2 years ago

    1. It sounds like he is sort of right, by his own definition of an RPG.

    2. I've not played FFXIII, so I can really say.

    3. Whether an RPG is or isn't a proper RPG is perhaps the most boring discussion anyone can ever have about RPGs.

    Being literal about it, an RPG is a Game in which you Play a Role. By that mark almost all video games are RPGs, from Pacman to Modern Warfare. If you aren't being literal about it, it is entirely subjective and there will never be a correct answer.

  • GamesConnoisseur #24 2 years ago

    Fully agree that defining what is RPG is bit like defining what is post modern art as per above comments. There are two layers, first is what is generally accepted as could be associated as a RPG by the world and you own personal interpretations.

    Example: most people can agree that a game with levelling up, stats improvement and you playing as a character solely or in a party would be RPG. But your own experience of how you like your RPG to be such as having mostly been exposed to D&D types such as Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Fallout or Dragon's Quest/Final Fantasy will colours your preferences.

    FFXIII was fun but it's doesn't have the RANGE of role playing/choices as I immensely enjoyed in both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon's Age. For me it would be an ultimate insult if FFXIII won RPG of the year for having very limited corridor based levelling action game.

    However FFXIII is a visually beautiful story telling game, you are on a rollercoaster and you stays on it.

    But I know people would have their opinion and I believe that having wider definitions of RPG suits better varied tastes but hopes people can understands better the different genres within RPG and enrichen their appreications.

  • GreyBeard #25 2 years ago

    Doesn't it go without saying that a Japanese RPG is a different genre to a traditional RPG, its like Football and American Football.
    Duh.

  • AnsemsApprentice #26 2 years ago

    Yeah, does it even matter? I don't buy a game because it is an RPG or an FPS or an RTS, I buy a game that I think looks good...I don't really understand why he said anything, don't comment on other developers processes or judge the decisions they made, get on with your own work and continue making what YOU define as an RPG if it matters that much...which it doesn't. It is a fair comment to say FFXIII wasn't as involving as others in the series, but considering the role Square and FF have played in defining the genre, it is a little bit disrespectful. I feel they tried to appeal to the west way too much but there are plenty of classic JRPG's still being pumped out, some better than others and that is good enough for me. FF Versus XIII is still to come, and that looks amazing so, Nomura is still abiding by the rules. I don't think he was Game Director on XIII. Different visions, different games.

  • Pac #27 2 years ago

    Personally I think video game RPGs are basically descended from pen and paper RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons. In those games you were expected to make choices based on what that character would do within the confines of the character's experience and morality (eg. you got more experience from making decisions which were in balance with your character class). So you were actually acting a role, so to speak, rather than just controlling a video game character (for example, you just control a fat plumber in Super Mario, you are not trying to get inside his head and be him).

    That's my thoughts anyway.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 10:02

  • ecureuil #28 2 years ago

    He's right.

  • Arselbengt #29 2 years ago

    I totally agree with him, these days people call everything a RPG as long as it has character levels, replaceable equipment and some statistics to describe you character.
    RPGs is about playing a specific role that you develop for each specific character that you make, basically living the role, like i suspect that many good actors do.
    You could add some dialogue options to Half Life and making them matter and call it a RPG in my books.

  • geeza2020 #30 2 years ago

    Dragon Age no more of an RPG than FFXIII???? What the fuck have you been smoking???

  • Spekingur #31 2 years ago

    Being fun or not doesn't make a game into a certain genre.

    @Inigo: Technically MW2 is a semi-hybrid, FPSRPG. You don't get to name your character though. You do have loot you can collect from fallen foes.

    @PoundHound: Of course ME2 is a RPG. You do in fact build your character, haven't you played the game? You level up skills, you get loot, you even have conversation choices. Maybe it's more of an Action-RPG than the traditional type.

    I can't really comment on the Final Fantasy series because I have never properly gotten into the games.
    I just think that people should look at paper and pen RPGs and see what games come closest to that to see what a traditional RPG might be like.

    For me it's probably going to be Fallout 3, being the most recent game where I have actually felt that I was affecting the world (because I decided to kill someone rather than talk, etc).

  • hiddenranbir #32 2 years ago

    Heehee, guess I irked a lot of ME2 fanbois!

  • kingcrude #33 2 years ago

    dont get me wrong, FFXIII is horrible, but for anyone from Bioware to state that other games are not RPGs is a little bit cheeky if you ask me. RPG doesnt mean "do an optional quest for each character and do it in either a good or evil manner". What RPG elements are in ME2 exactly?
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 10:41

  • Shakey_Jake33 #34 2 years ago

    I don't think he's trying to claim that it 'matters', he's just pointing it out. He's right, and I like JRPGs.

  • TeaFiend #35 2 years ago

    The computer game genre "RPG" means that you will level up, improve skills through some form of experience point mechanic and generally learn skills.

    Tacking a J on the front means that the game is ultimately linear and you do not get to create a character or define their personality.

  • Cid #36 2 years ago

    Does this really matter that much?

  • AnsemsApprentice #37 2 years ago

    If it didn't "matter" he wouldn't have said anything. The fact it has no merit means he is saying it for a reason, probably to sway a few fans into Bioware territory. It's all a real life game, but that's my money head talking.

  • des #38 2 years ago

    FF13=linear copy-paste dungeon crawler

    If it was 10 hour game it would be fine,but 40-50 hours...lol

  • Alatair #39 2 years ago

    Closest the FF series got to being an RPG with a deep skill customising system was FFX with the sphere grids, it wasn't just equipment buffs. I have to say the ambivalent player-GF leveling system in FFVIII is my favourite though.

  • BigJonno #40 2 years ago

    I see role-playing as being like improvisational acting; the game says "Right, you play the role of a young orphan out to avenge the death of his sister," or "You're now Commander Shepard, badass space marine, off you go," and let's you get on with it. It's up to you to interpret that role however you see fit, within the constraints of the game.

    That's why Gears of War is a straight shooter and Mass Effect 2 is a shooter/RPG. You can choose which gun you use, but Marcus Fenix is Marcus Fenix. He says, does, thinks and acts exactly what and how the developer intended. Commander Shepard, on the other hand, is your Commander Shepard. How he or she acts and what they say is up to you. Yes, you're limited in the options you have, but that's an unfortunate limitation of the technology.

    As for FFXIII, you can allocate points, but you have no control over the characters behaviour. Control in FFXIII is especially limited. Movement is limited to travelling from one fight/cutscene to the next and the main element of the battle system is telling the characters which class to switch to. It's a great spectacle, very beautiful and I really like how the battles play, but you're no more playing a role when playing FFXIII than you are when you switch on the TV and watch Eastenders.

  • WladTapas #41 2 years ago

    RPGs involve books, dice, pens, paper, and so forth. :) All these computer versions can do is to try to model a part of that experience, since no program can beat the infinite range of possibilities resulting from a few human imaginations working together. Obviously the easiest part to model is leveling and getting better loot.

    And then there are things which CRPGs are good at, like handling complex combat statistics in the background and letting you to focus on the decisions, having beautiful art and music, and so forth.

    I like both.

  • Cid #42 2 years ago

    @AnsemsApprentice

    Most of the people who bought FFXIII didn't do so based on the genre. It's a tough enough ask to get the majority of Final Fantasy fans playing other JRPGs, let alone western ones. So if that's his angle then he's fighting an uphill battle.

    Either way, my comment was aimed at the people here. So some guy says FFXIII isn't an RPG...what does it matter?

  • Arselbengt #43 2 years ago

    @BigJonno
    Excellent post, basically what i was trying to say but more elaborate :)

  • Distributor #44 2 years ago

    The man has a point. Rock on.

  • Markusdragon #45 2 years ago

    Quick, someone translate the comment into Japanese, and then bring it up in an interview with the FFXIII producers!

    Fight, fight, fight!

  • TeaFiend #46 2 years ago

    And remember, FF13 developers said that ME2 sucked as an RPG as the player got to make choices and was not told what to do.

  • AnsemsApprentice #47 2 years ago

    @Cid, I was saying if you were close minded enough to buy a game just because it's an RPG, then his comment would have some meaning. But considering most RPG lovers play many different kinds of RPG, it doesn't. So say we play Jade Empire, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Persona, Grandia whatever, we would know that not all games bearing the RPG name have the same mechanics. The guy is being quite specific, and there just simply isn't room for that sort of thinking in such a richly diverse genre as this. I was agreeing with you, it really doesn't matter, so he should just get on with what he thinks an RPG should be, and we will just play games we like, isn't that what it's all about? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean we can create our own facts.
    Edited by 2 at 14/05/10 @ 12:17

  • laharl80 #48 2 years ago

    Bioware games aren't rpgs.
    You can't just bolt a useless, shallow skill tree and a meaningless dialogue system on to a game and call it an rpg.
    Stick to your point and click pc drivel and stop talking cobblers.

  • geeza2020 #49 2 years ago

    ^^^ never heard of dragon age.

  • laharl80 #50 2 years ago

    @geeza2020
    Dragon age was terrible.
    Poor graphics, horrific interface, characters straight out of Bioware's little book of rpg clichés, a boring story etc.
    When you have played 1 Bioware game you've played them all.

  • Sunyavadin #51 2 years ago

    Well? He's 100% correct.

    If YOU are PLAYING the ROLE of the character, it's an RPG.

    If you are an outside observer to the character's actions, which are determined by writers, with you having no input beyond moving them about, it's not an RPG.

    Mass Effect? RPG.
    Fable? Heading into not-an-RPG territory, but still recognisable as an RPG.
    FFVII? RPG.
    Fallout 3? RPG.
    Oblivion? RPG.
    FFXIII? NOT an RPG.
    GTAIV? ALMOST an RPG. May go so far as to say it is one based on how much freedom you have.
    Dragon Age? RPG.

    If you stretch the definition of "playing a role" to include FFXIII, you then have to say Halo, Resident Evil, Half Life and even Mario Bros are RPGs.

  • Jauffre #52 2 years ago

    Well, his comments certainly echo my own sentiments about FFXIII. It just felt like there was no real interaction with the world - you couldn't interact with non-player characters, no towns to wander about, and nowhere interesting to explore (Gran Pulse was little more than a field, before you were forced back into tunnel battles).

    When I play an RPG, I want to get lost in the experience, to live the journey of the characters.
    And for me, that was simply lacking in FFXIII.




  • varkdm #53 2 years ago

    FF13 was just rubbish, the most linear and shallow game I've ever played. Put about 13 hours into it before I could take no more. RPG? dont make me laugh. Pretty graphics though.

    Roleplaying is about taking on the role of a character. You then make decisions based on how you feel the character would or should behave in those circumstances. FF13 gave you no choices at all, you were just playing through a linear scripted sequence. ME2 and Dragon Age are therefore RPG's - you are given a role and you are given decisions to make that alter how things play out and the game experience will change depending on the decisions you have made. You could play through ME2.. 3 or 4 times and it would be different each time, you could play through FF13 4 times and the experience would be identical each time.

  • Mooglepies #54 2 years ago

    As far as I'm concerned, he's correct. In FFXIII You make no meaningful choices in how your character acts through the plot, the only choices you get to make are those that affect your battle effectiveness. That doesn't make FFXIII any worse, or better, it just makes it a different type of game, as this guy has said.

    The following is my opinion. I'm not stating it as fact. True RPGs allow you to actively make decisions that, whichever way you choose, have a meaningful impact on the game world and the story. Thus, because Mass Effect allows you to meaningfully impact on the game world in a number of different ways, all of which are dependant on the choices that Shepard (you) make, it's an RPG.

  • Buran #55 2 years ago

    Well said, only munchkinism-oriented games towards to build the perfect killing machine as Diablo II LOD deservers the "RPG" label in my book.

  • desomondo #56 2 years ago

    I was just about to mention Diablo myself. In that game your avatar doesn't even have "character", barely any dialogue and doesn't get to shape the story in any particular way, but it's still often referred to as an action RPG.

  • UncleLou #57 2 years ago

    The following is my opinion. I'm not stating it as fact. True RPGs allow you to actively make decisions that, whichever way you choose, have a meaningful impact on the game world and the story. Thus, because Mass Effect allows you to meaningfully impact on the game world in a number of different ways, all of which are dependant on the choices that Shepard (you) make, it's an RPG.

    That makes Heavy Rain an RPG, and Baldur's Gate not. :)

    Not that I have a better idea.

  • Eraysor #58 2 years ago

    It's dire. The storyline isn't even any good. I gave up after a while because the characters changed their minds about their entire quest on a whim every five minutes. Plus, Vanille. Jesus christ.

    EDIT: And there's no point in arguing over what constitutes a genre and what doesn't. Our gaming medium is in constant flux; genres bleed into each other so often nowadays that it's almost becoming pointless to pigeonhole anything.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 13:35

  • TeaFiend #59 2 years ago

    @Sunyavadin:

    FF7 is an RPG, but FF13 isn't? They have the same amount of choice.

  • ignatiusjreilly #60 2 years ago

    And there's no point in arguing over what constitutes a genre and what doesn't. Our gaming medium is in constant flux; genres bleed into each other so often nowadays that it's almost becoming pointless to pigeonhole anything.

    This is the only comment needed in this whole thread.

  • Spekingur #61 2 years ago

    To me, RPG is where I have a character that I can name and decide the looks of said character. With playing I gain experience and level up (straight up level or level up skills without a character level). When I level I choose how my character develops his skills. It could be automatic by levelling up by usage or point distribution. At least that's how I define RPGs.

    GTAIV does not fall under this definition. If you just define RPG as 'playing a role' then all games are Role-Playing Games.

  • JamieR #62 2 years ago

    @Ninja_Tino God of war is a action game.

  • Windypops #63 2 years ago

    Whether Final Fantasy XIII is an RPG or not is certainly debatable. What is not up for debate is the fact that it's a complete turd baguette with phlegm relish. It's about as interactive as a road sign.

    After two hours of walking forward and pressing 'A', I took it back to trade it in for an actual game.

    And what is it with the Japanese and their predilection for huge-mammed schoolgirls who communicate solely via squeaks of sexual ecstacy?

  • Mr_Git #64 2 years ago

    I thought it played out more like a dungeon crawler if anything. Luckily I like dungeon crawlers.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 14:33

  • z.e.r.o #65 2 years ago

    Taking lessons on RPGs by the same people who destroyed Mass Effect turning it in a shallow Call of Duty 2 clone with aimless multi-choice dialogues?
    The same people who delivered a flawed Dragon Age DLC, crippling the whole game thanks to the EA spyware that comes with it?
    No thanks.

    Now get back fixing Dragon Age PS3, because it's three weeks I can't play the friggin' game!

  • Emmit_Assassin #66 2 years ago

    Slagging off Final Fantasy is fine for us, not for an RPG maker. Does he realise a lot of people that play Mass Effect also play FF? FFXIII might have a lot of flaws, but so did Mass Effect.

    People in galss houses and all that. I'm not a massive fan of FFXIII or anything, but I'm liking it so far. But then I'm only about 8 hours in, so things could change.
    It might not be perfect, but it is an RPG. RPG covers so many things these days. Especially with cross overs and genre benders like Borderlands. Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG is a bit of a stupid thing to say, really. I don't think he thought that through properly.

    Must engage brain before speech, mate!

  • Stuz359 #67 2 years ago

    Nice to see the playground still rules debates. Other notable arguments:

    'My dad is harder than your dad'

    Discuss.

  • Tangled #68 2 years ago


    Nice to see the playground still rules debates. Other notable arguments:
    'My dad is harder than your dad'

    That must have been some kind of X-rated playground I guess?

  • Feanor #69 2 years ago

    Bioware wanker wants a GAF thread to rage about about him... yawn.

  • Sunyavadin #70 2 years ago

    My reasoning for allowing FFVII into the RPG "Club" was that certain aspects of the character's develpment ARE down to your choice. Like going on the date with Barrett, or how things play out in the Don's mansion infiltration. They are not linear and predefined. It's the same reason I consider Fable an RPG, on the fringes of RPG. Although arguably its silent protagonist affords you more leeway in defining the role as you see it than any game with a defined persona for the main character.

    If FFXIII is an RPG on the basis of you playing the character, then I want my payment for starring in every film I've ever watched.


    *edit* also - Diablo? It's a hack and slash dungon crawler. Like Gauntlet before it and Too Human after it.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 16:32

  • alcides #71 2 years ago

    as a response to the question "what is postmodernism": it's nothing and everything. It is the fact that different perceptions of reality no longer compete for supremacy over one another but replace that which was deemed "real" with their mutual tensions.

    It is stating that since others are wrong, one must feel righteous. Conceptions of reality exist only to contradict one another, so that if one should fail, the other would crumble too.

    Postmodernism is the age of the realization of nihilism. Nihilism and relativism IS the postmodern real, where signs and images expand at the expanse of their referent.

    Like printed money multiplying although there is no real stuff to justify its proliferation. It doesn't matter, as such money need not even be printed, it is an idea of pure reason, formless.

    That is the kantian mode of the sublime. Postmodernism is sublime, sensible mundanities, corporeality is overwhelmed by nothingness, by pure abstraction which cannot be accounted for in terms of "being", if only negatively (not being).

    Postmodernism is easy. We live right in it after all.

  • alcides #72 2 years ago

    BTW FF13 is good in pure abstract spheres of the mind but is really corporeal SHIT.

  • Sharzam #73 2 years ago

    On its loosest terms most games you are playing a role. However my personal view of what makes a RPG is the constant evoultion of your character whether that be armour/loot or experience/levels its all about improving yourself and more importantly the story to make you feel part of the world and playing a role within that world.

    I think both Mass Effect and FF are RPGs however they have different elements of them that are. Personally not a fan of JRPGs thourgh as they tend to always have the same story and very little in the way of choices and descions which make you feel more of a part of the world.

  • intpleeus #74 2 years ago

    "Role-playing game" is a silly description. You don't play a role in most "RPGs."

    I was playing Assault on Dark Athena a while back. Now that's a role-playing game. There are no two ways about it, the player must become Riddick. The story is mostly fixed, the character's motivations and goals are not optional. The player must enter into Riddick's mind, i.e. they must role-play. Everything about the game encourages the player to act true to the Riddick character. Why isn't it a role-playing game?

  • alcides #75 2 years ago

    @Tangle That must have been some kind of X-rated playground I guess?

    Nuh-uh

    That one is deemed "Call child protection" playground.

  • NewbieZilla #76 2 years ago

    It is a RPG if you are the arbiter of what the character will be, not if you are bestowed a role in which you have no options. Can't believe how many morons can't grasp that. "Oh Mario is an RPG, you play a piumber" or other nonsense shows just how much a fool you are.
    Edited by 1 at 14/05/10 @ 17:27

  • Antaios #77 2 years ago

    It's as much of an RPG as Mass Effect 2 then.

  • Scorpio1969 #78 2 years ago

    Here is the funny thing... The creators of FFXIII have stated themselves that their game is not an RPG. In other words, there is no controversy when the creators have echoed what the Bioware guy has said.

  • Relayer71 #79 2 years ago

    That's rich coming from Bioware. Sure, I agree about FFXIII but most of Bioware's games are more like console or JRPGs than PC RPGs to begin with.

    In other words, not much different than FF. Sure, you have skills, leveling and items/armor but everything is mostly linear and nothing you do really affects much of the world. There is an illusion of it but that's about it.

    Of course I still consider Baldur's Gate 2 the pinnacle of PC RPGs. That's not to say it had a ton of "choice and consequence" or had the greatest writing or was completely open ended. But that game was just EPIC, had a TON of optional quests, a good story, excellent presentation, and memorable characters.

    Basically, it is one of the most well put together and most satisfying PC RPGs made to this day.

    Dragon Age seems to be an "almost there" return to form but everything in between?

    Neverwinter Nights deserves it's place in history for it's toolset component and plethora of user made content but the original single player campaign was utterly disgusting. (NWN 2, although not a great game by any means was still a huge improvement - go Obsidian).

    KoToR was good fun for Star Wars fans the first time through but really, its so shallow and simplistic with a useless skill system - only the story and SW universe held it together for one playthrough (Obsidian made a much more compelling sequel).

    Jade Empire - see KoTor. Story and setting (nice change of pace actually from typical D & D or modern settings) were interesting but the game was extremely linear and the gameplay was too simple. It was a decent actioner, but RPG?

    Mass Effect - see KoTor. Again, well written story * with amazing voice acting. But the gameplay didn't require much intelligence or strategy, it was basically a 3rd rate shooter-with-pause system with very little depth.

    * Bioware's writers are very competent, that's for sure. But they play it too safe. It's all executed well TECHNICALLY but has very little soul, in a word: dull. Again, BG2's writing wasn't the greatest, I'd say Bioware has gotten better technically with every game but BG2 had PERSONALITY, something lacking in all their other games.

    Wow, guess Ive gone on a rant - just making up for having been visiting this site for like 3 years and never actually ever posting! :)

    My point being that Bioware has gotten so far from true RPGs with the exception of Dragon Age, that they shouldn't be commenting on FF XIII. At the core their games aren't much different from JRPGs, basically all story/presentation with some light gameplay elements.
    Edited by 1 at 15/05/10 @ 01:10

  • Demiath #80 2 years ago

    A WRPG developer saying that FFXIII isn't an RPG because you don't "make choices" is a bit like if a JRPG developer would say that Mass Effect 2 isn't an RPG because it doesn't involve effeminate male characters with blue hair and giant swords. Akalabeth and the first Wizardry didn't involve making a whole lot of choices either, does that mean the entire Western roleplaying computer game genre was created on the foundations of...nothing? Clearly, Daniel Erickson is being more unreasonably narrow in his definition than even the worst fanboy of either subgenre (WRPG/JRPG).

  • Sunyavadin #81 2 years ago

    I'd say your argument fails to properly take into account a simple principle of evolution.

    Sure, we have fusion reactors around the world. But we don't have a fusion power plant.

    There were MANY proto-RPGs, but we probably didn't get any REAL RPGs as most Tabletop or LARP players would recognise them until sometime in the early 90s at the earliest. Where the line is drawn of course remains muddy.

  • darc #82 2 years ago

    "...we thought it was 'faultlessly accomplished, gorgeous to behold and, in the long run, thoroughly enjoyable'..."

    ...because, collectively, we have gone utterly insane.

  • chrisu #83 2 years ago

    @ laharl80 rpg or not rpg ? who cares, as long as the game is enjoyable to the gamer. what i can say, is that ff13 wasn't to me an enjoyable game: boooring story, over-rated graphics, boring level design, stupid looking bosses & monsters, horrendous menus, unlikable characters, uninteresting leveling system. I've played ff7, ff8, ff10 & ff12 and all of them were wayyyy more engaging and interesting. I simply can't understand why it got ssuch high scores in reviews. I would rate it only 7 or 6.
    You're wrong about dragon age: in my books it was the game of the year. Yes it has rpg clichés and poor graphics, but i found the story very entertaining and the gameplay enjoyable. Have you even tried the game or are just repeating like a parrot what was said in the way unfair review that it got here at EG ?

  • funkateer #84 2 years ago

    "FFXIII is not an RPG because ...."

    That's all nice, but outside of BioWare wanting to step into the spotlight, why is this important exactly?
    Thinking inside of the box right there...

  • GrumpyMoose #85 2 years ago

    I totally agree with him. It's not even close to being an RPG. However, so is ME2.