Bay attacks MS and HD-DVD

By Robert Purchese Published 5 December, 2007

Transformers man is angry.

Hollywood director Michael Bay has lashed out at Microsoft and its HD-DVD format, claiming its purpose is to make other formats fail rather than succeed itself.

His angry swipe was made on the "Ask Michael Bay" sub-forum (well spotted, Kotaku) after a fan pushed him on the unavailability of his films on Blu-ray.

"What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about," fumed Bay.

"That is why Microsoft is handing out USD 100 million cheques to studios just embrace the HD-DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu-ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."

Conspiracies like robots disguised as trucks on Earth, then.

Recently we heard Blu-ray films accounted for 73 per cent of the high definition market in Europe, although the keen-eyed among you attributed it to HD-DVD being region free.

So, is Michael Bay right? Or has he pulled your Armageddon? [And can he sod off? -Ed]

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (178) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Scurrminator #1 4 years ago

    love how he tells it like it is :-P

  • Arwin #2 4 years ago

    Keen-eyed schmeen eyed. As if all BluRay discs are region encoded. ;) I bought the US version of Planet Earth from amazon.com, no problems there. Alledgedly, for some reason that version even looks better.

    Will be interesting to hear whether another source can confirm Bay's comment.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:02

  • Darren #3 4 years ago

    I really wouldn't worry about Transformers not being on BD... I watched the DVD last night on my PS3 via HDMI upscaled to 1080p, using the Theatre mode on my Sony Bravia HDTV, and it looked fantastic. Obviously it isn't as sharp as the hi-def version but it will be more than good enough for most people I'd wager. The movie is dumb but supremely entertaining by the way; I really enjoyed it.

  • Wash #4 4 years ago

    @Darren

    Why bother with any of the hi def disc formats then?

  • bengray66 #5 4 years ago

    i dont think i will be moving to high def DVD's for many a year. why?

    1) i already own loads of DVD's, why buy the same movies all over again for more money?
    2) Im happy with current video quality

  • cw- #6 4 years ago

    Didn't gamesindustry.biz say the same thing months ago ?

  • blender #7 4 years ago

    michael bay is right. microsoft are good at business, i take my hat of to them.

  • Wrobel #8 4 years ago

    Hollywood director Michael Bay has lashed out at Microsoft and its HD-DVD format

    Since when did Microsoft own the HD-DVD format. I thought it was Toshibia's. They are a supporter yes, but own it they do not.

  • That_Happy_Cat #9 4 years ago

    Not on Blu-ray? Well that explains why I rcevied the 1986 Transformers movie on Bluray from Amazon DVD Rental last week.

    Tsk

  • Dizzy #10 4 years ago

    Is he going to make a *good* movie about it?
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:19

  • silver-jon #11 4 years ago

    I;m the same as bengray66. DVD is good enough for me for the foreseeable future. The difference from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu Ray is not worth buying new equipment and all new discs, imo. Got other things to spend my money on.

    If a polished download system comes in about 5 years time then it will probably be time to reconsider.

  • systems #12 4 years ago

    I'm not re-buying my collection again in HD format, but I do buy new films if I can find them. I'm a HD-DVD-add-on owner so obviously I'd prefer HD-DVD to win but I don't really care either way. By the time the dust has settled it'll be digital downloads.

    Blu-Ray is technically slightly superior (especially the data access rates), but there's no guarantee of what the content is. HD-DVDs *have* to be of a certain standard as more of their content is non-optional. The storage capacity difference isn't a problem at the moment if triple-layer HD-DVD gets out soon (50GB). I'm also wary of the BR regions which are being enforced as I've imported everything from the US.

    Upsampled DVDs look mostly fine as far as I'm concerned so I don't think there'll be a mass rush for HD like there was for DVD replacing VHS and CD replacing cassette.

  • Balboa #13 4 years ago

    Yes, Microsoft are involved in this massive conspiracy to make Sony fail. They're certainly not just investing in a business to promote growth and make money, because that would be mundane and commonplace.

    Also, Sony decided to develop Blu-ray rather than stick with the HD-DVD consortium because they were furious over Toshiba getting the lion's share of royalties for DVD. To get revenge they decided to sabotage the HD-DVD format - by competing with it!

    Business is basically about mad plots for world domination, betrayal and revenge. I don't know where people get the idea that it's about making money, that's just crazy talk.

  • Darren #14 4 years ago

    @Wash - Well BD has other advantages too like uncompressed audio, correct 24 fps playback and a scratch-resistance surface. ;)

    Seriously though, I have Die Hard 4.0 on BD and the Ultimate Edition DVD (the one with the swearing and violence left in). I watched the BD first then the DVD but was surprised at the quality of the DVD picture. I mean obviously it wasn't as sharp as the BD but it was still very good, thanks to it being upscaled to 1080p and output via HDMI. I suspect the difference between a non-upscaled DVD and BD on a large 1080p HDTV would be greater though but I watch them on a 1080p-capable 32" Sony Bravia TV using the excellent Theatre mode feature, which is calibrated specifically for movies.

    I suppose if you have an upscaling DVD player then there's less need to invest in the hi-def formats and maybe that's why it isn't taking off as quickly as the manufacturers hoped. Certainly the difference between DVD and HD-DVD/BD is far less than the gap between VHS and DVD.

  • Kazzahdrane #15 4 years ago

    GamesIndustry.biz had an article saying what Bay's talking about months ago, was very well written and totally convinced me that this is the truth. It makes a lot of sense too, especially with the fairly reasonable prices for rental on MS's video marketplace.

    I personally don't really care about having a physical product for movies or games, but I'd want the ability to be able to lend said games or movies to my friends/family. The alternative is to make them relatively very cheap to buy digitally so that you're not spending too much money on something only you can use. This is why I've bought XBLA games but the only full games I've bought by download are from Steam because the Valve games are usually cheaper than retail that way.

  • drumbaby #16 4 years ago

    Still, Gates does a lot of work for chariddy, though of course he doesn't like to talk about it.

  • andijames #17 4 years ago

    I'm actually glad to see Mr Bay has an opinion on this matter and isn't just biting his tongue for the sake of political correctness. Blu-ray is undeniably ahead in terms of sales at the moment and the storage capacity can't be argued against either so it's incredibly frustrating when a studio such as Universal is bought off with a $100 million dollar check to not sell blu-ray discs. The consumer should always be given a choice.

  • seasidebaz #18 4 years ago

    this makes no sense. m$ want digital distribution. why tie us to poxy 20g/120g drives then!?!?!?!

    give us a nice, fast, 1tb drive and i'll happily not buy any more bluray (as long as there are no mpeg remnants in the films *cough*sky*cough*)

  • drumbaby #19 4 years ago

    I bought the DVD version of Transformers. While not as peachy as Blu-Ray it's peachy enough, and means that HD DVD can do one.

    My Blu-Ray collection is growing though...Deja Vu, Spiderman 3, Die Hard4, FF4 2, Reign Over Me and Casino Royale. Blade Runner Spesh Edish soon, plus whatever I get for Xmas. I'm steadily making the move to hi-def discs...for new and select old films too.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:24

  • GamesConnoisseur #20 4 years ago

    Personally I believe that Bay would just as equally blast Sony if Transformers only on BR and his circle of friends all own HD DVD and that the HD DVD is leading the market.

    He seem to see himself as the 'upstanding guy' type who fights the good fight!

    Anyway he should just accept that it is more about the bigger picture and that both Sony and Toshiba and their consortiums are equally responsible for putting consumers in this situation.

    Consumers rightly know that it is iffy and even BR the leading contender is weak compared to DVD AND digitial downloads.

    Hand up you all who are downloading movies/clips left right and centre off PC?!

  • Yaz #21 4 years ago

    Hmmm, last time I checked, HD-DVD was Toshiba's format, not Microsoft's.

    And the 100 million said to be paid to Paramount came from the HD-DVD consortium, not Microsoft.

    The consortium is headed by Toshiba and includes Sanyo, NEC, Memory Tech, Intel, and yes Microsoft, amoungst it's members.

    But hey, I guess it's much more fashionable to bash Microsoft. ;)


    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:36

  • skillian #22 4 years ago

    I suspect the difference between a non-upscaled DVD and BD on a large 1080p HDTV would be greater though but I watch them on a 1080p-capable 32" Sony Bravia TV

    A 1080p 32"? I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.

    It might be capable of accepting a 1080p signal, but it would be downscaled to 720p, whcih is the reason there's not that much difference for you between the DVD and the Blu-Ray.

  • Dizzy #23 4 years ago

    "Universal is bought off with a $100 million dollar check to not sell blu-ray discs. The consumer should always be given a choice. "

    ORLY? So what about Sony movies on HD-DVD?????

  • Darren #24 4 years ago

    The battle between the two formats would certainly be a whole lot more interesting if all movies where available on them. However, Sony are very unlikely to ever allow, say, the Spider-Man trilogy to appear on HD-DVD as BD is their "baby". With that in mind and the fact that Universal and Paramount will likely eventually support BD anyway, especially if its movies continue to outsell HD-DVD ones by 2:1, it would seem to be that HD-DVD is the disadvantaged format really. BD already has more studio support and unless Microsoft intend paying off other movie studios, it's unlikely to change. BD is already the first format to achieve one million sales in Europe for example and my local WHSmith are now selling a selection of BD movies but oddly not HD-DVD. It seems to only be a matter of time before BD succeeds really...

  • septimus #25 4 years ago

    He is right though. That is MS' plan.

    Though why they are pushing so early.... no one bandwidth outside of Japan/S. Korea can deal with the traffic demands.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:30

  • BillyBrush #26 4 years ago

    And how do you know Microsoft are writing $100 million cheques to studios?

    I'm not saying they don't or anything, perhaps they do, perhaps Sony indulge in this practice too?

    And with Michael Bay it all surely depends whichever advetrtisers messaging he is filling his films with at the time....when the Island came out i recalle MSN search all over it and Xbox featured too...maybe they were'nt interested in Transformers and he's doing a reverse Gerstmann maneuvre here

  • Darren #27 4 years ago

    skillian - "A 1080p 32"? I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.

    It might be capable of accepting a 1080p signal, but it would be downscaled to 720p, whcih is the reason there's not that much difference for you between the DVD and the Blu-Ray."

    That's correct, that's why I said 1080p-capable not 1080p HDTV. And the image is downscaled to the TV's resolution of 1366x768 not 720p, which is 1280x720. ;)

    P.S. Sony are planning on releasing a true 1080p 32" HDTV by the way, although at that size it's debatable whether you'd see any benefit from it.

  • Wash #28 4 years ago

    Is funny seeing the blu-ray lot jump on the bandwagon, evil M$ and "their" format. Alot of your comments read like Sony has done nothing but good will with their blu-ray format, not like they own a monoply on a good lions share of all movie releases, because of their admittedly successful studio business.

    On the flip side you have the same on the HD-DVD camp, both as bad as each other.

    If digital downloads stopped this madness, then fudge it bring it on.

    The blade runner spesh edition is one thing that made me think about getting the addon for my 360.

  • haubitzer #29 4 years ago

    Oh shit, we're going to get perfect digital downloads. We are truly doomed.

  • Spielo #30 4 years ago

    I'm fairly sure Bay is right, but I think the main beneficiaries of Microsoft's efforts will be Apple. Of course, studios could wake up from their internet denial and revolt against Jobs, but they're far too stupid for that sort of thing. Steve will screw them all, and they'll end up thanking him for it.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:34

  • urban #31 4 years ago

    umm all of the blu ray movies i have are region free too. yer point?

  • Darren #32 4 years ago

    "Recently we heard Blu-ray films accounted for 73 per cent of the high definition market in Europe, although the keen-eyed among you attributed it to HD-DVD being region free."

    A surprising number of BD movies are also region-free as I've imported at least ten over the past four months or so. Obviously HD-DVD is completely region-free but is this reflected in US sales, i.e. do HD-DVD movies typically outsell BD ones? I know Transformers has but that was reported as if it's the exception rather than the rule.

  • Psyclapse #33 4 years ago

    Blu-Ray and HD-DVD failing is a good thing! Bring on downloads. Go Microsoft, you evil capitalist pig dog you.

  • Steroyd #34 4 years ago

    You don't have to buy the Hi def versions of movies you already own the idea is that any new movies you buy from now on are of the aformentioned formats otherwise the BD and HD-DVD would have been incapable of playing DVD's just like DVD players couldn't play VHS tapes.

    This guy is telling it how it is, MS wants to be on the forefront of movie downloads like Apple is for music, they want this HD format war to canabalize each other not wanting either to succeed.

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #35 4 years ago

    Why do so many people that are against upgrading to a HD format always use the argument ill have to rebuy all the films ive already got on DVD. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT, all HD players Blu-ray or HD-DVD still play DVD's, JUST buy NEW films on Hi def and if you have a good player like the PS3 you will get upscaling on your DVDs anyway, not as good as a proper Hi Def Disk but still why on earth do people think they have to buy all there old films again!!!

    The only real reason not to upgrade is if you dont have a HD tele, if you do have a HD Tele and your not wathcing HD content on it, Why did you buy a HD tele in the first place? Because SD content on a HD tele looks fucking awful.

  • bivith #36 4 years ago

    "umm all of the blu ray movies i have are region free too. yer point? "

    umm they aren't. Try playing the north american Ratatouille in your UK blu-ray player and see what happens. Or Hairspray, or just about any other new US release. Most catalogue titles are region free, though.

  • skillian #37 4 years ago

    P.S. Sony are planning on releasing a true 1080p 32" HDTV by the way, although at that size it's debatable whether you'd see any benefit from it.

    I'd quite fancy one, as it would be more suitable for use as both a computer monitor and a TV.

  • RamblinSydRumpo #38 4 years ago

    Back at the start of the DVD format there were also two competing candidate formats. But Philips and Sony gave up and abandoned their MultiMedia Compact Disc, and agreed to go along with Toshiba's SuperDensity Disc. The result was DVD - a single unified format. Toshiba made millions off the patents for the DVD disc structure, which Sony lost out on. At an industry conference last year, Warren Lieberfarb (the so-called "father of DVD";) revealed during a panel that, right after standard DVD launched, Sony approached him about the need to start working on the HD version (understandable given that HDTV broadcasting was already taking off in Japan and Europe), but the DVD Forum felt it was too early and wasn't interested. So Sony started working on their own HD format. You can't knock Sony for not wanting to miss out on the huge royalty profits a second time. After all, Toshiba had no interest in sharing some of the royalty fees during the attempts to negotiate a single HD standard.

    Bay is quite right when he states that Microsoft has no interest in either format winning and wants them both to fail. They've made no secret of the fact that they see digital downloads as the future and they want to monopolise that service. The strategy doesn't seem to be working however and I expect when the time is up (because it's a time-limited deal) the rest of the studios will return to blu-ray.

    As it happens a lot of the blu-ray releases aren't region locked anyway. Warners in particular don't use region locking.

  • DrDamn #39 4 years ago

    @bivith
    Try reading what urban actually wrote ...

  • brokenkey #40 4 years ago

    I think he's spot on - thats why MS are supporting divx now.

  • Darren #41 4 years ago

    @skillian - Good point, 24" PC TFT monitors have resolutions of 1920x1200 so it would make sense to have a 32" one with a 1920x1080 resolution that would double up as a PC display. Never considered that.

  • DrDamn #42 4 years ago

    The problem with both formats is that neither offer enough in terms of what the public gets to justify the price difference. Why would I pay well over twice the costs of the DVD for something a bit sharper? Blu-ray and HD-DVD prices have to come down - maybe the only thing good about there being two formats is that competition will eventual cause this.

  • Lexx87 #43 4 years ago

    Meh. DVDs are fine.

  • space_ace #44 4 years ago

    Blu-bay

  • symbiote #45 4 years ago

    "i already own loads of DVD's, why buy the same movies all over again for more money?"

    What a dumb argument. You just buy NEW films on BD OK?

  • adamamosa #46 4 years ago

    Erm . . . . Microsofts HD-DVD????
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 10:57

  • jiveguy #47 4 years ago

    I think the EU need to step in and pick a format that must be used for HD video disks. I'm really sick of all the bollocks about which is the best way to hold my cartoons on a bit of plastic.

  • Monkey_Puncher #48 4 years ago

    Michael Bay is never right, Michael Bay is the devil and should be shot on site!

  • Yaz #49 4 years ago

    adamamosa wrote: "Erm . . . . Microsofts HD-DVD????"

    Exactly! He should be bashing Toshiba. :)

  • symbiote #50 4 years ago

    And for me, digital downloads won't kill hard-copies UNTIL you can pop a DVD in your PC and rip the movie with ease (a-la Media Player and Ripping CDs) so as to archive your existing collection.

    Oh and yes, with the DVD in the PS3 there's little difference between it and a BD but compare a BD to a standard DVD SCART...like comparing DVD to video.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 11:04

  • Mortey #51 4 years ago

    MS are right, digital downloads FTW!!

  • crazyhorse174 #52 4 years ago

    Hollywood director Michael Bay has lashed out at Microsoft and its HD-DVD format

    Since when did Microsoft own the HD-DVD format. I thought it was Toshibia's. They are a supporter yes, but own it they do not.

    Exactly what I was thinking.

    I think Michael should become a bit more informed about these issues before he lashes out.

  • skillian #53 4 years ago

    The point is that's it's MS, not Toshiba, that are doing most of the dirty work.

    It's not so much the format he has a problem with, more the tactics being used to sabotage the market. That's Microsoft's doing.

  • dsmx #54 4 years ago

    How come I saw transformers on blu-ray disk in woolworths yesterday then?

  • seasidebaz #55 4 years ago

    @dsmx: no you didnt

  • Yaz #56 4 years ago

    skillian wrote "The point is that's it's MS, not Toshiba, that are doing most of the dirty work."

    Oh please skillian. :) You are stating your opinion with nothing to support it.

    The facts are, HD-DVD is Toshiba's format and Toshiba head the consortium which includes Sanyo, NEC, Memory Tech, Intel, Microsoft, and others.

    To single out Microsoft and ignore the others as Michael has done is just stupid and uninformed.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 11:12

  • Jmek #57 4 years ago

    Could somebody please explain this to me, because I honestly don't get it. HD DVD players are cheaper than Bl-Ray players? HD DVD has no region coding. And there's no difference between picture quality? Also there tend to be more extra features on HD DVD discs. Just what is Blu-Ray's advantage over HD DVD?

  • drumm23 #58 4 years ago

    SACD or DVD-Audio.



  • cornishflipper #59 4 years ago

    I dont think i'd buy either format - its a mess, worse than the VHS war. Although, Bluray appears to be doing very well. Like transformers and Bourne films you cant get it on bluray, it doesnt make sense. Plus I have too many dvd's to replace in any hurry.

    Downloadable content via 360 or streaming through my Virgin box is going to be the way forward for me.

    Microsoft always did plan this, they made a HD-DVD player separate as a decoy and line up their video store over the last year. Cant wait to see if its any good in a week or so time.

  • Freeman01 #60 4 years ago

    I think people should be aware that Microsoft do have a interest in HD-DVD since one of the codecs used to code the discs is a Microsoft product. So if they help to push HD-DVD they make money from the software and if Blu-ray / HD-DVD eventually disappear they don't care as they'll be making money off digital distribution plus it will hurt Sony more than them!

  • peasoup #61 4 years ago

    Lets face it microsoft are in this for the long haul. People are not going to suddenly throw their DVD's away and opt for digital distribution through a games console. As i see it there is enough time for HD DVD and Bluray to play out, it's going to be a long time before the average consumer is torn away from DVD and sold on the advantages of HD material, but when that time comes Microsoft will have a solid infrastructure and a huge catalogue of cheap HD content.

  • OllyJ #62 4 years ago

    "Blu-Ray is technically slightly superior (especially the data access rates), "

    Blu Ray has a much slower read speed than HD DVD as far as I know, that's on PS3 games at least....

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #63 4 years ago

    one of the codecs used to code the discs is a Microsoft product

    As I understand it, you can use Microsoft's codec on Blu-Ray too.

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/VC-1
    ]http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/VC-1
    [/link]

    In any aase, there's wide agreement about the conspiracy going on and Microsoft's part in it. It's just that Toshiba are their fall guy, and they're writing the cheques.

    Still, I just bought an xbox HD-DVD drive (5 free films? you'd be silly not too), so I can be watching shiny pin-sharp Transformers this Christmas if I want to and Michael bay can just get off the internet, go away and film a sequel or something.

  • Wash #64 4 years ago

    LOL @ Skillian.

  • Dizzy #65 4 years ago

    >"one of the codecs used to code the discs is a Microsoft product

    >As I understand it, you can use Microsoft's codec on Blu-Ray too."

    Indeed.. Blu-ray also pays royalties to MS.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 11:39

  • Ghettomurph #66 4 years ago

    This is really old news. I read about this in Empire about a month and a half ago. He's since apologised because Parmaount weren't exactly happy with his comments.

    HD-DVD vs BluRay is pointless at the moment. One will win eventually and if the old porn & vhs stories are correct (the porn industry are choosing HD-DVD coz its cheaper) then it could be HD-DVD that comes out on top, only time will tell.

    If you own a decent upscaling dvd player at the moment then there's no reason to even buy a HD format film in the first place. The extras dont warrant the price tag.

  • Darren #67 4 years ago

    If Microsoft really didn't care which format prevailed then they'd have offered their customers a choice of an HD-DVD or BD add-on for the Xbox 360. In fact, they have said that should BD become the winner that they'd consider releasing a BD add-on for the 360. Of course, I doubt that will ever happen as Microsoft will do everything they can to ensure either HD-DVD dominates (effectively sticking two fingers up at Sony) or that neither format wins so they can step in with digital distribution.

  • Yaz #68 4 years ago

    ^^^ That comment is not appropriate here frod. :) You should be complaining about Toshiba.

  • Bumhug360 #69 4 years ago

    To stress the point which always seems to get over looked. It doesnt matter if some studios release blu-ray only and others go hd-dvd only as hybrid players that will support both formats are the future. The mass market isnt ready to jump into HD yet as its too expensive, when players get below £100 mark thats when consumer interest will perk up and if you can get a player that does both blu-ray and hd-dvd why on earth would you buy a single player. The only losers are those that are buying players now

  • Freek #70 4 years ago

    Diden't he do this rant once before with the HD version of Transformers?
    Then the studio called him on it and he backtracked the whole thing.

    Diden't he learn anything from that?

  • Yaz #71 4 years ago

    Darren wrote: "If Microsoft really didn't care which format prevailed..."

    Microsoft are on record saying they prefer HD-DVD. They are part of the HD-DVD consortium, so they would prefer HD-DVD to prevail. The point is, if it doesn't and Blu-ray 'wins', it's not a problem for them, they'll simply support Blu-ray. :|

  • Darren #72 4 years ago

    @Ghettomurph - A typical 2-disc DVD costs £15-£17 online and a 2-disc BD/HD-DVD can be bought for £18 or so if you look around, so for a few extra quid the improved audio and video quality is well worth it IMO because even if it's only slight, it's still superior. I buy all my movies on BD where I can or if I can't, DVD. I've thus bought Shrek 3 and Transformers on DVD for around £16 each and Blade Runner and Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End on BD for £18 each.

  • Stiggy #73 4 years ago

    And all this hyperbole from a director whose hardly known for his intellectualy challenging films. Ignore him, he will go away and film something else blowing up - at sunset - in slow mo..

    But seriously lets stop talking about "winning" in this format war. That won't happen till theres mass market peneration and thats YEARS away (and likely never).

  • tomb85 #74 4 years ago

    feel free to tell me i'm missing the point of these new formats, but for me i'd rather see the increased storage capacity used for cramming more onto one disk anyway. Upscaled DVDs look great to me, so why can't i have my 24 box set on 1 disk instead of 7?

    Roll on digital downloads I say. I'll never have to leave my sofa again and i can get rid of the shelves upon shelves of dvd boxes.

  • skillian #75 4 years ago

    Oh please skillian. :) You are stating your opinion with nothing to support it.

    LOL @ Skillian.

    You can LOL at me and call it a conspiracy theory, but I'm just saying the same thing Michael Bay is above. Is it really so hard to believe MS is trying to manipulate the market to ensure it's future product becomes a monopoly, or at the least a market leader?

  • Wash #76 4 years ago

    @Skillian

    So Sony having blu-ray as the only viable future disc format is nothing like that?

    In fact show me a business that isnt trying to be a leader in its market...

  • peterfll #77 4 years ago

    I wish there wasn't a format war, I would like to be buying my content in a HD format that I know is going to be universally supported by all. But no shocks really that MS want downloads to be the future, that's no news to most of us here I would imagine.

    LOL at all the HD TV owners claiming DVD is "just as good".

    Would all those HD TV owners continue to buy DVDs if HDDVD\BR was avaialble at the same price as DVDs?

  • zuljin #78 4 years ago

    @Bumhug360
    "if you can get a player that does both blu-ray and hd-dvd why on earth would you buy a single player."

    A single player will always be superior for simply the fact that you don't have to have components for two types of player - ie a single player will ALWAYS be cheaper to produce.

    Hybrids is a nice idea, and certainly allows for less risk for a little more money, but consumers will more than likely choose a single format, rather than keep this format war going on.

  • GI-Joel #79 4 years ago

    Im with download a film side on this one. Download watch a film. delete it. All for 3 quid so hear, and in hi def i hear. So I keep all my cuboards, shelfs and lofts free from DVDs, VHS, betamax, Bluray, HD DVD etc. I also reduce my carbon foot print (pmsl) on all that delivery packaging etc

    Soooo how many of you rewatch all your movies ?

    Also FU blockbuster and your snickers free with this film ads.....

  • McLovin85 #80 4 years ago

    +1 Bay.

    Totally agree. Microsoft can fuck off. I prefer to buy a physical product than dl anyway so don't really want download services to become dominant. To create that ugly parasitic twin called an HD-DVD add on is just a crime against humanity (ok i might have exaggerated slightly)

  • bioreit #81 4 years ago

    @ wash

    "@Skillian

    So Sony having blu-ray as the only viable future disc format is nothing like that?

    In fact show me a business that isnt trying to be a leader in its market...     "

    +1 Damn right. All companies are as bad as each other. No company is ever going to let 'nobility and regard for its consumers' stand in the way of tremendous profit - believing or implying otherwise is just plain gross ignorance.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 12:15

  • GI-Joel #82 4 years ago

    And I keep my minimal look in flat too.....

  • drxym #83 4 years ago

    Michael Bay has it spot on. Microsoft doesn't give a shit about HD DVD. They are only propping it up because they hate Blu Ray and want a long running format war to sow confusion and doubt in physical formats and hope that everyone flocks to their own digital distribution platform instead. HD DVD is the losing format and it's about time it dies already. It had some great ideas (e.g. region free content) but in other ways it is largely inferior. I wonder how long Toshiba continues with it before conceding defeat. Even they must realise at this point they're not going to win.

    And before someone asks "if they don't like HD DVD why then is there an add-on for the 360?", the answer being because Toshiba subsidized the effort. They certainly don't care enough about the format to integrate an HD DVD player into a 360 where it might actually be useful for something.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 12:22

  • Kury #84 4 years ago

    Good riddance to MS! Death to physical media!

  • ParanoidZombie #85 4 years ago

    next on eurogamer: Uwe Boll attacks Sony and Blu-Ray.

  • Wash #86 4 years ago

    @DRYXM

    "D DVD is the losing format and it's about time it dies already. It had some great ideas (e.g. region free content) but in other ways it is largely inferior."

    Do tell....

  • tapper #87 4 years ago

    Re: Planet Earth mentioned earlier in the thread, I pretty sure the BBC version of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is identical (both in US/UK). I think 1080i on the cover of the UK version is a misprint. The only difference is that the UK version has more content on the 5th disc.

    The altered US version (with narration by Sigourney Weaver) however has inferior video quality.

  • JonFE #88 4 years ago

    By his own words Phil Harrison would be "amazed if the PS4 had a physical disc drive", yet Michael Bay accuses Microsoft of wanting to move to digital downloads...

  • drxym #89 4 years ago

    @Wash, ""HD DVD is the losing format and it's about time it dies already. It had some great ideas (e.g. region free content) but in other ways it is largely inferior."

    Do tell...."

    Blu Ray has more storage capacity, better copy protection (that studios love), higher bitrates for sound / video, higher transfer speed, has broad support from the electronics & software industry, has more support from studios, more players and BD recorders & consumables are readily available.

    HD DVD has region free in its favour, some mandatory (and possibly desirable) audio requirements, and some features that only profile 1.1 BD players can match. Otherwise, zip.

    Blu Ray is winning despite Toshiba heavily subsidizing its players and Microsoft bribing studios. HD DVD is getting trounced in Europe and Japan and losing badly in the US. It really should just die already.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 12:32

  • Redeye #90 4 years ago

    Gods, what a pointless train-wreck...Bay is a pompous gobshite who shouts off at anything he's not happy about, and the frothing from fanboys trying to outdo the other with meaningless insults takes tedium to whole new depths.

    Any sort of format wars since the dawn of time = y-a-w-n.

  • Wash #91 4 years ago

    "higher transfer speed"

    How fast is the Ps3, surely the majority sold player blu-ray.

    Didnt toshiba just do a 3rd layer disc thats playable on hd-dvd players due to ethernet connections and upgradeable firmware.

    "profile 1.1 BD player" can you upgrade the profile on your blu-ray player?

    "has more support from studios, more players and BD recorders & consumables are readily available. "

    Dont sony own a lot of movie studios, and wasnt there a $99 dollar hd-dvd player, i'd say as a consumer hd-dvd is the better looking to me?

    Also it may now have passed, but werent reviews favouring the HD-DVD releases early on.

    How much in % would u say the video is better on the disc compared to the hd-dvd equivalent, also wouldnt it depend on the transfers.?

    Including PS3s in those sales of players is it? would u say that majority of ppl are buying it as a blu-ray player?

    I think they should both die.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 12:38

  • menage #92 4 years ago

    ""What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about," fumed Bay."

    What's his point?. They should have skipped the new format from the fucking start. New players, new disks, pff, pointless.
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 12:40

  • prolific8 #93 4 years ago

    @Darren

    Do you work for Sony marketing or something? You seem awfully keen to inform us about Sony products.

  • bioreit #94 4 years ago

    See, the thing is, that it doesn't matter whether people buy their PS3 as a games machine or a Blu-Ray player or both. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of PS3 owners never buy a Blu-Ray disc in their life. All that matters to the studios and retailers is which format has more devices out there and currently, Blu-Ray is winning that particular war.

    This can be quite annoying, as it could very easily be argued (indeed, it has, many a time) that HD-DVD will die out not because it was the inferior format, or the least popular, but because Sony shoe-horned in Blu-Ray into their latest console.

    Imagine that - HD-DVD dies out, because PS3 owners buy a few Blu-Ray discs out of idle interest or the 'meh, whatever' method of shopping. Just two or three impulse or throw-away purchases, multiplied by X million PS3 owners, would heavily skew the numbers in the format war towards Blu-Ray.

    This isn't me saying this is necessarily the case, I'm just thinking out loud, but with all the ambivalence about the new formats, it certainly seems to be at least a viable option...

  • monty2k #95 4 years ago

    What a fool, Michael Bay disses HD-DVD 2 months after he said it "rocked" - [link url=http://www.betanews.com/article/Mich ael_Bay_Tries_HD_DVD_Likes_It/1187794085
    ]http://ww w.betanews.com/article/Michael_...[/link]

    I've bought myself a 60Gb PS3 for christmas but I reckon I'll only be using it for upscaling regular DVDs and games since there aren't any blu-ray discs that I want and don't already own on regular old school DVDs.

    For those who are interested this is the BBCs take on the format war so far:
    http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/cl...

  • tapper #96 4 years ago

    @Blu-Ray proponents, can you please point to the HD-DVDs that has inferior IQ when compared to their Blu-Ray counterparts because of limited storage capacity?

    I'm mostly HD format agnostic at this point (leaning slightly toward HD-DVD because of lesser DRM and the fact that it's region free), and I see a lot of FUD from the Blu-Ray camp.

  • deaner #97 4 years ago

    This is something many Netizens have been aware of for some time now, and I'm glad someone with some profile has finally been found talking about it.

    People need not to focus on the fact that EG have incorrectly stated that it's "Microsoft and its HD-DVD format" Bay is talking about, because as we all know the lead developers of HD-DVD are Toshiba of Japan.

    But regardless, it's no secret that Microsoft have for some time been trying to drive the delivery of digital media away from distributable media and towards download driven distribution, and so it's right to be suspicious when they openly endorse one such digital disc.

    And as anyone who was reading the technical presses around the mid-nineties will know - Microsoft are capable of some extremely underhand business tactics, and many a smaller and smarter business with better technology were stomped beneath their giant feet after Bill waved banknotes at their owners or majority shareholders.

    Since Microsoft's unfathomable endorsement of the HD-DVD format, techies around the world have been drumming up conspiracy theories, and this is the leading light amongst them. And if true - disturbing.

    Aside from that, it's worth mentioning that despite Blu-Ray's 73% European market share being disuptable (what isn't?), there are many other strong indicators suggesting that the format war is being won by the blue discs. You just have to do some reading...

  • bioreit #98 4 years ago

    @ deaner

    Please see Phil Harrison's statements about PS4; all of the content on PS Store; and the recent announcement of a Sony/DivX licensing deal for reasons as to why this behaviour is not a Microsoft exclusive.

    Not saying don't bash Microsoft for it, but to imply that this is an evil Microsoft conspiracy is a tad ridiculous.

    Everyone's heading towards digital media, as they can charge similar prices to physical media for basically zero costs.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 13:00

  • dk_rare #99 4 years ago

    Don't know what Mr Bay is talking about, I'm perfectly happy with my collection of HD DVDs. I own a 360, but I have never paid for content once and I don't plan on it either. And he is in dream land if he thinks the Blu Ray supports were not pay hundreds and millions of dollars too for their support of Sony.

  • OldB0y #100 4 years ago

    A lot of people really don't have the facts it appears. Most of the Old DVD consortium (Phillips, Sony, Matsushita (Panasonic, Technics, JVC), Pioneer etc are behind Blu Ray, not HD DVD - it is NOT just a Sony product.

    Only Toshiba and MS are behind HDDVD, as THEY refused to back Blu-Ray, it was not the others refusing to back HD DVD. The only other supporter of the format seems to be LG who opted for making a half hearted and far more sensible dual format player. Even MS are only showing half hearted support by making a player as an add on to the 360 instead of a stand alone product, basically leaving Toshiba to carry the can by themselves. Personaly I hope Blu Ray wins soley for the fact it is more expandable technology with greater storage potential (currently up to 250GB), that is all. If HD DVD was in fact better I'd support that - as I'm sure would the other manufacturers.

    In any event this "format war" is pointless and simply confuses the average consumer who will ultimately be the loser if they pick the "wrong" format whatever that turns out to be.

  • bioreit #101 4 years ago

    @ OldB0y

    "Only Toshiba and MS are behind HDDVD"

    Might want to look here:

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Corporate_ and_industry_support
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Corp...[/link]

    and here:

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Dis...[/link]

  • tapper #102 4 years ago

    @OldB0y, from Wikipedia:

    "HD DVD Promotion Group Member List contains the main promoters of HD DVD, namely Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, Microsoft, RCA, Kenwood, Intel, Venturer Electronics and Memory-Tech Corporation. The HD DVD format is also non-exclusively supported by Acer, Asus, HP, Hitachi Maxell, LG, Lite On, Onkyo, Meridian, Samsung, and Alpine."

    Full list here: [link url=http:// www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html
    ]http://ww w.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member...[/link]

    Yay, more FUD.

    EDIT: beaten by bioreit
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 13:11

  • Bitkari #103 4 years ago

    He's correct in that both formats will fail, and networked media will step in to "replace" the regular DVD format.

    He's wrong in thinking that Microsoft have actually planned this, however.

  • bushwod #104 4 years ago

    The name of this article should have been:

    Bay attacks MS and HD-DVD
    Arma-gedon Angry!!!!

  • OldB0y #105 4 years ago

    You may notice the companies in both camps, LG and Sammy are making dual format players, Kenwood aren't making any that I can find.

    my point about the consumer ultimately being the loser still stands however (unless they buy a Sammy or LG..) as does my point re Blu Ray being able to store more data, as does my point about most of the original DVD consortium being members of the Blu Ray association:

    [link url=http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Consortium
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Consort...[/link]

  • bioreit #106 4 years ago

    @ OldB0y

    Way to dodge the point that your inital statement was so, so wrong. Where's the retraction? Where's the "Whoops, sorry - my bad"?

    You say there were only three supporters of HD-DVD - Toshiba, Microsoft and LG - and two of those were only half-hearted, compared to the veritabel plethora of Blu-Ray supporters. The links shows that it is hardly "leaving Toshiba to carry the can by themselves", yet you don't recognise the fact that your original point was flawed.

    Why?

    Edit 1: Edited for leaving stuff out first time around, due to boss-related snoopings.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 13:39

  • UweBoll #107 4 years ago

    "next on eurogamer: Uwe Boll attacks Sony and Blu-Ray. "

    Blu Ray is ze SwineHund!!

  • theindustrialone #108 4 years ago

    "SACD or DVD-Audio."

    QFT

  • stepneg #109 4 years ago

    Who cares apart from the mugs re-buying their film collections on yet another format, the sooner full on digital distribution gets here the better.

  • tapper #110 4 years ago

    I'm also wondering if the format war could have some "invisible" benefits for the consumer in the end.

    For example, many (most?) of the early Blu-Ray discs used MPEG-2 compression. When people realized that HD-DVD looked better, Blu-Ray shaped up pretty fast and started using the more advanced MPEG-4 codecs.

    Just trying to be positive about the whole thing :)

  • bioreit #111 4 years ago

    @ tapper

    Good move. Let's try and all see the positives here :-)

  • Ghettomurph #112 4 years ago

    @Darren

    Sorry mate but that's bollocks. You're saying that the average price for a BD/HD-DVD film is under 20 quid? Ive never seen either format retail on the high street for under £20, not in Tesco, HMV etc, nowhere.

    Yeah, you probably can go onto the net and find them cheaper but for a better resolution and probably a few different extras (95% of which are complete crap) it still doesnt warrant the extra price. Especially when one format will win out in the end.

    You can buy 2 disc editions of films on dvd for about £12-13 on average now, on the high street. Until one format comes out on top its not worth shelling out the extra money for the same film with a slightly better resolution than my upscaling dvd player.

  • Azazel #113 4 years ago

    ZOMG CONSPIRACX0R!1

    /casts lvl 9 Explode Fanboi

  • tapper #114 4 years ago

    @Ghettomurph, it's not just "slightly" better though. 1080p got 5 times as much image information as PAL 576p (and 6 times as much as NTSC 480p). Furthermore they have colors which are much more accurate and less compression artifacts.

    Both formats also has the possibility for better audio than DVD to boot.

  • Darren #115 4 years ago

    @Ghettomurph - You do realise I'm expressing my OWN opinion, right?

    I buy all of my movies online, have done for years now, so obviously I'm going to quote online prices. The fact is that I bought Transformers on DVD, a 2-discer, for £17 from Play.com (I saw it in WHSmith for £20 today) and I got PotC: At World's End on BD, also 2-discs, for £18 from DVD.co.uk so for me the price difference is a few quid at most and the superior quality makes up for that extra cost. I also buy all my games online because I can buy them cheaper too.

    If you want to pay OTT high street prices for your movies and games then that's your prerogative but I have the *choice* of buying them cheaper elsewhere. :p

  • OldB0y #116 4 years ago

    @bioreit retract what?

    look at the history of HD DVD here, in the link you posted:

    http://en.wikiped ia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

    Almost all the firms were pretty much behind Blu Ray until the split over the cost of Blue diode lasers.

    As for more than just just Tosh, MS being big supporters of the format, and really being behind it, where are all the players made by the other firms exactly?

    A lot of companies in both camps have yet to make any HD DVD or Blu Ray Hardware. However Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony and Phillips have all made/ are making Blu Ray players. LG and Sammy are making Hybrids that play both. Only Tosh are presently making a standalone HD DVD only player, with MS making the 360 add on, which isn't really a standalone playe as it requires a 360 to work.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 14:25

  • muftak #117 4 years ago

    i see a lot of comments here about people cant be bothered to rebuy their dvd collection on a HD format this leads me to this conclusion most are either misinformed or don't quite understands that up scaling DVD's on a bluray or HD-DVD can be done and does look amazing.

    trust me i have a 42" 1080p lcd tv and believe me DVDs don't look as good as they did on my SDTV but by popping them into my PS3 i up scale so they look great again.

    After watching POTC 3 on bluray i have seen the light , best looking film to date on either format .

    Digital distribution will never take off you do realise a HD film requires 40-50 gig of space (Thats with uncompressed sound) how long will that take you to down load 1 week? id rather own the hard format now than wait ages for a download that ill have to wipe of cause i haven't got the space on my hard drive .

  • bioreit #118 4 years ago

    @ OldB0y

    "As for more than just just Tosh, MS being big supporters of the format, and really being behind it, where are all the players made by the other firms exactly?"

    You never once, in your original statement, said it was about manufacturers. Microsoft, for the record, is not a manufacturer - Toshiba make their units - so using Microsoft as an example, in that context, is totally wrong.

    You only spoke about supporters - and how there was only Toshiba and two half-hearted supporters in Microsoft and LG, compared to the seven listed supporters of Blu-Ray. I pointed out that that statement was wrong. You now say that it was all about manufacturers.

    But, you know what? It's obviously my fault. My fault for leaving my psychic hat at home today.

    And support for a format comes from more than who makes it - it comes from the people who use it, the people who buy it and the people who, you know, support it. But yes, in the very narrow, limited field of "Manufacturers of HD devices", Blu-Ray comes out on top, but I don't care who 'wins' really, whereas you have already stated that you want Blu-Ray to win, which, by implication, means you *want* HD-DVD to lose.

  • XdarXideX #119 4 years ago

    Yet again Michael Bay proves that he is full of shit. Read his website and you'll notice most of what he says he contradicts later on or just apologises and backtracks.

    The whole BD vs HD-DVD debate is far past old now. Who gives a shit which one is leading sales or which one has slightly better specs (though HD-DVD appears to be easily mastered at the moment compared to BluRay)? They're both going to be on the scene until the next format is out because there are too many customers on each side for one to fail.

  • thepiedpiper #120 4 years ago

    Pearl Harbour. Until he apologises for that and many others, he's dead to me. .

  • skillian #121 4 years ago

    The whole BD vs HD-DVD debate is far past old now. Who gives a shit which one is leading sales or which one has slightly better specs (though HD-DVD appears to be easily mastered at the moment compared to BluRay)? They're both going to be on the scene until the next format is out because there are too many customers on each side for one to fail.

    That is basically exactly what Michael Bay is saying. So if he is full of shit, what are you full of - candy floss?

  • bioreit #122 4 years ago

    lolo @ thepiedpiper.

    "I miss you more than that film missed the point".

  • thepiedpiper #123 4 years ago

    @bioreit

    ...and cuba gooding needed a bigger part?

  • tapper #124 4 years ago

    @muftak,

    And most people down have Full-HD sets. If we have digital downloads in 720p with DD/DTS I think some people will think that's a nice step up from regular DVDs, and it's totally doable with todays bandwith.

    Digital downloads doesn't have to be 1080p with uncompressed sound to take off, you know. It's easy to "upgrade" digital downloads to 1080p later when the bandwith's there.

  • Darren #125 4 years ago

    I've seen the US Video Marketplace and it surprises me that many 720p movies are less than 9 GB suggesting that they'd easily fit, somewhat ironically, on a standard DVD! Obviously a DVD player cannot actually play them but it kind of highlights the fact that we could have been watching HD movies years ago had the technology been incorporated into normal DVD players. LOL

  • tapper #126 4 years ago

    Yup. MPEG-2 required much more space than MPEG-4. A standard DVD is enough to hold a 720p movie with decent bitrate in many cases.

    I actually think the "first" consumer HD movies where like this. 5th Element came in 720p on a second DVD only playable in WMP if IIRC.

  • DSKUK #127 4 years ago

    Not sure if this has been said, but i don't think microsoft want both formats to fail. I just think they don't really care about which one will win. The xbox team have said numerous times that if blu-ray succeeded, they would probably release a blu-ray add on.

    Also, the obvious reason why blu-ray is more successful is because it's standard in all PS3s. During the beginning of the console, when not many games were out, customers were probably trying out the movie side to see what all the fuss was about. Just a thought - not fact.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 15:38

  • ParanoidZombie #128 4 years ago

    @thepiedpiper: "pearl harbour sucked, just a little more than I miss you."

    ... Much better than bad boys 2, though. Worst movie ever.

  • miiiguel #129 4 years ago

    You guys seem to be technological-educated ppl, so don't ostracize digital distribution just because MS digs it. I know MS is da evil and all that but digital distribution is way cool.
    We all ultimately want to MS to bankrupt, and Gates to burn in hell and all that, but hey..., let's not all go offline because there's an Internet Explorer, ok?

    We all know what Microsoft did since the early 80's, they made computers accessible to average user, and they got rich along the way. That's despisable! All other companies disregard profit for the sake of consumers (my dear Sony, for instance!). I know (I just know!!), that Toshiba has nothing to do with this (they're not even americans! - there you go, if you needed some kinda proof!), they just think HD-DVD is better for us (and if they hadn't partned with filthy MS, we could give that HDDVD a try...), but we hope soon they see the light.
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 15:54

  • skillian #130 4 years ago

    No-one wants to ostracise digital distribution, we just don't want Microsoft monopolising it and controlling the direction it takes :)

  • deaner #131 4 years ago

    When and if distribution by download becomes the standard, consumers will be signing away a lot of their ownership rights because of the inherent nature of DRM.

    See the Electronic Frontier Foundation (amongst others) for DMCA/EDMCA fury.

    [link url=http://www.eff.org/issu es/drm
    ]http://www.eff.org/issu es/drm
    [/link]

    The educated coonsumer needs to pray that one of these formats wins out and soon. Which one is an entirely different arguement.

    People shouldn't be so quick to surrender their rights in favour of convenience and saving a few euro's (which you inevitably wont).

    However of course, this may not even be the issue in focus. Bay is voicing a popular rumour and for the right reasons and should only be lauded for it. Even though he has a history of manking mostly bad films and withdrawing and replacing statements as his studio dictates!

  • miiiguel #132 4 years ago

    "No-one wants to ostracise digital distribution, we just don't want Microsoft monopolising it and controlling the direction it takes :)"

    I really don't agree on that monopoly argument. I mean, what that supposed monopoly that MS "imposed" was bad for your life in the past 20 years of their existance? I can't think of anything. We don't like them because:
    - They're Americans
    - They're filthy rich
    - We're not employees
    and
    - They're filthy rich

  • skillian #133 4 years ago

    Do you honestly not see any problem with monopolies within a Capitalist system?

    Talk to an economist, he or she could explain it better than me.

  • miiiguel #134 4 years ago

    exactly my point! I don't want an economist to tell me, I want to analise it myself.
    My life would be better if +80% of home computers didn't use Windows? Why?
    Shareholders of Red-Hat would have a bigger BMW? SuSE owners would have an house in Allgarve? Yeah..., that would be cool and all, but... I don't know, maybe you're right.

    Almost forgot, Mac would be super-ultra-extra cool. They're just ultra-extra cool nowdays.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 16:28

  • deaner #135 4 years ago

    It's not about money. Tech's tend to hate MS because they buy-out anyone who poses competition or has a better product, thereby bringing all of the ideas and manpower under one business and it's business plan.

    That tends to rip both competition and creativity to bits across the industry.

    I mean, imagine if EA made all the games. They'd be technically compitent but sloppy and derivative.

    Diversity breeds creativity. Monopolies purely line pockets and fed the consumer whatever he has already enjoyed in a new packet, over and over and over.

  • skillian #136 4 years ago

    My life would be better if +80% of home computers didn't use Windows?

    It's impossible to know, but yes, it's quite likely that if there was more competition in the OS industry we might all be using better products at a cheaper price. Windows is not perfect, not by a long way.

  • miiiguel #137 4 years ago

    I don't use Windows at home. MS didn't ask me to.

    deaner, there we go..., the main reason is that they're filthy rich. They buy stuff and all. It doesn't make sense to dislike a company because they're doing buisness by buying some other that had a good idea (aquisitons take place in a daily basis, when the buyers think they're making a good deal - it'd be silly other wise, wouldn't it?). EMC bought my beloved VMWare!!! Will I hate EMC ? Only if they get bigger than Hitachi, or something, otherwise I don't care..., if you catch my drift...

    With EA is exactly the same thing. They have too much money (seeing from this side of the table, of course). Within 2 years we'll be hating Activision.
    Edited by 4 at 05/12/07 @ 16:56

  • skillian #138 4 years ago

    The problem with monopolies is lack of competition, not large profits. That's what anyone who has a clue about modern economics will tell you. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine, but stop saying "we" hate them for their money - use "I" if you have to.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 16:56

  • miiiguel #139 4 years ago

    but, MS has the monopoly of what ?
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 16:59

  • deaner #140 4 years ago

    Money is HOW they buy other companies, miiiguel. It's not the motive or the consequence to the industry as a whole.

    I'm just reiterating, but corporate buyouts favour the business doing the buying and no-one else.

    To line Microsofts pockets, a million potential products and ideas never happened because smaller companies vanished under their umbrella.

    I don't mean to sound like I have a problem specifically with MS, but they're under invesitgation by the Monopolies Commission for just this sort of negative impact on the PC market!

    That's why I have something of a problem with them being part of the videogame market these days. Bigger picture - they're not a positive impact on the market. They're selling you PC spec consoles for Heaven's sake! Where's the creativity, the imagination, the effort?

    EA and the likes do something similar, and it comes to an East vs West debate in that the giant Eastern companies at leats place value on ingenuity and craftsmanship. Whereas us Westerners will churn out whatever's easiest to make the same amount of money.

  • miiiguel #141 4 years ago

    On consoles I have a different opinion. For me it's a box that delivers games. I opinate on the games, and measure their value on my "funmeter". Couldn't care less if it's the power of da cell or a pocket calculator. Really.

    And yes, I hear those nightmare stories often, what I find difficult to understand is in what way did IT not evolved because of MS existance, they're not the only ones to make deals (Compaq bought Digital; HP bought Compaq; Symanteq bought Veritas; Sun bought 90% of the Unix companies...; Sony buys lots of stuff too - they even have medical centers...).
    The same with the games, I sometimes hear - like you said, although is not that often anymore - that they are a bad impact on the video-game market. But the arguments stay there, like an esoteric punch-line.... Why? Because they sell a machine where I have fun at? at a reasonable price? In games it's sometimes hilarious a game (for some) is automatically "not as good" or "lacks criativity" if debuts on an XBox. 360 has now more than 30 Japanese made games (source: PlayAsia), but still they "lack criativity".
    Yeah I know they're americans, but still..., not enough to be a "bad impact".
    I hope I'm not over reacting, but it's kinda fascinating in a peculiar way trying to understand the genesis of some feelings. I sometimes think it's a fascination with the far-away land, although it doesn't work from Japan to Europe/US. Or maybe it's the "hate who's big", but Sony is very big..., I guess it's kinda political.

    But I am much of a leftist guy meself....

    Do you really believe Eastern companies are more ethical than Westerns ?
    Edited by 4 at 05/12/07 @ 17:43

  • ronuds #142 4 years ago

    Bay's an idiot. One second he's pissed, then he's praising HD-DVD, then he's pissed again.

    So, it's ok for Sony to go on their own in an attempt to "own the market," but not MS?

    You make so much sense my eyes bleed, Bay. Just make your horrible action flicks and shut up. Transformers was good, but the action sequences gave me a seizure.

  • miiiguel #143 4 years ago

    Oh, and Fujitsu bought the only UK computer maker - ICL. And they fired everyone, at least here in Portugal.
    You had one year when the computers were called Fujitsu/ICL then, they must have thought, "heck with it! we own you, It's Fujitsu, like it or not!"

    source: my father was an ICL employee.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 17:52

  • Apologie #144 4 years ago

    Microsoft is a bunch of soulless bloodthirsty capitalists... they only intend to aprisionate the consumer... i never liked that corporation.

  • miiiguel #145 4 years ago

    Thanks, we need those enlightened arguments. It all makes sense now.

  • ronuds #146 4 years ago

    MS is souless and will buy any company out that suits them, but they are very good to their customers. They do take a "run with us or we'll run you over" stance a bit, but if you buy their products, you're most likely going to be satisfied.

    Now, is Sony "good to the consumer" as much? Root kits, $600 consoles and exploding batteries say no...

  • Apologie #147 4 years ago

    ronuds

    We can see that from the amount of x360's that die in less then a month (that shows the respect they have for the consumer "launching a defective system just to buy some time and get ahead in the console market)... from the price of they'r software (with actually a lot of bugs) and many many other thing's.... Microsoft is one of the most hostile companies i have ever seen... imperialism at it's best.

  • miiiguel #148 4 years ago

    Marx wouldn't have said it better Apologie. Kudos. (but tell us "what's the amount of 360's that die in less than a month?", nobody seems to know, enlight us. While at it, what's the "many, many things", can be just the "many things";).

    I would mention Marx for F3rrari too, but shit... "Ferrari and Marx", the guy would haunt me for the next 20 years, or so.
    Edited by 3 at 05/12/07 @ 18:17

  • Apologie #149 4 years ago

    Microsoft It's evil, pure evil, it all started in 1997 when Microsoft invested $250 million in Apple. Now, with the rising popularity of Mac OS X and the so-called 'iPod halo effect', the conspiracy is truly coming to fruition."

    The theory works something like this:

    1. Microsoft buys shares in Apple, providing a much-needed revenue boost, and allowing Apple to produce a superior operating system.
    2. Mac OS X siphons off support from Linux and other Microsoft competitors, while encouraging unwanted "problem customers" to move away from Windows.
    3. Profit!!!

    Microsoft has always strugged with 'problem customers', those users that are constantly complaining about their systems but don't have the initiative to try something else. They have unrealistic expectations for Windows, such as believing that you should be able to connect to the Internet for more than five seconds without getting slammed by script kiddies.Clearly, these malcontents are a drain on Microsoft's profit margins. They are more likely to study the fine print of the EULAs and bitch about losing their Constitutional rights. However, by gently nudging these troublemakers into the direction of Apple, Microsoft can increase its profit margins by inserting even more questionable clauses into future EULAs without drawing attention. Meanwhile, since Microsoft owns a portion of Apple, the proceeds will still eventually reach Bill Gates' bank account."
    The truly diabolical aspect of the plan, however, is the end-run against Linux. Even Linus Torvalds has succumbed to the siren song of Mac hardware.
    Open source is a looming threat against Microsoft's bend-over-and-enjoy-it policy of software licensing,"But Mac OS X represents a compromise, with just enough open source to keep the geeks happy, but just enough proprietary licensing to keep the lawyers and bean counters happy."
    The next step in the conspiracy is not entirely clear, although expect that it will involve wave after wave of killer patent lawsuits. "Once the dust settles, there will only be two remaining legal operating systems: Windows for the masses, and Mac OS X as the token opposition intended to pacify 'problem customers' while keeping them in line.

    and now, we see they'r purpose to make other formats fail rather than succeed itself. (BluRay - Hd DVD issue)

    They alway's had these kind of hostile policy, as i said, it's bascally imperialism at it's best....

    ___________________________________________

    Retailers, including an EB store manager report the failure rate to be 30% or greater, but claim it is improving over time. GWN writes, "Some users have suggested that almost all Xbox 360s of the current design will fail at some point in the first few years of their life due to the design fault we detailed recently."

    Not to mention the X360 disc scratch problem....
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 18:50

  • miiiguel #150 4 years ago

    Apologie, you should post the source were you took (copy/paste) that text from:

    http://ma il.nl.linux.org/humorix/2005-03...

    Don't try to fool an old Linux geek... (that's an old jokes site, dude. DO NAME YOUR SOURCES even with JOKES!)
    Edited by 3 at 05/12/07 @ 18:51

  • TriggerHippie #151 4 years ago

    Oh Apologie, you've hit a new low rofl

  • MaskedDave #152 4 years ago

    This is a secret? Didn't MS basically say they saw digital downloads as the future? Of course they're doing this.

  • Apologie #153 4 years ago

    I did not realized that it was "that" important for you guy's to reveal the source in these particular case... (not to mention that anyone with 2 hands and a keybord can find the source of a quote) all our opinions are based on information, something we read our hear... and that text illustrate my point. Basically, Microsoft don't respect anything or anyone in order to prevail their interests...
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 19:28

  • ronuds #154 4 years ago

    "We can see that from the amount of x360's that die in less then a month (that shows the respect they have for the consumer "launching a defective system just to buy some time and get ahead in the console market)... from the price of they'r software (with actually a lot of bugs) and many many other thing's.... Microsoft is one of the most hostile companies i have ever seen... imperialism at it's best. "

    Yada, yada with the RRoD issue already. MS has extended their warranty and new 360's don't have the same issue. Sure, it sucks and was a factor, but MS did the right thing by their customers.

    Now, what did Sony do for PS2 owners again? From what I understand, PS2's had a similar failure rate, yet there was no extended warranty. Funny how quickly Sony fanboys have forgotten this.

    Anyway, if that's the best you can do, I'll take that kind of customer treatment over Sony's any day of the week. I think Blu-Ray has shown the lengths Sony will go to to screw over their most faithful customers.

  • StixxUK #155 4 years ago

    HD-DVD is region free?

  • tapper #156 4 years ago

    Yeah, there is no region coding in the HD-DVD specification. Which is a big selling point for me since I import almost all movies I buy.

  • miiiguel #157 4 years ago

    Apologie, it's wrong to post other peoples texts without quoting the source. Period.

    But I don't think you wanted us to see the text as yours, what you didn't want to paste was the fact it comes from a known linux humouristic site.
    That's made up, if you didn't realise by now.

  • drumbaby #158 4 years ago

    Of course Msoft want disc formats to fail. Their disc-based consoles either don't sell very well or just don't work...stands to reason they'd want to have everything as a download.

    ;)

  • miiiguel #159 4 years ago

    MS isn't just "disc based consoles", is it? They are much more evil than that, they're everywhere, they're in front of you right now.

    About their "disc based consoles", I really don't know why there's so much fuss about it, they either "don't sell very well" or "don't work", for such a product to much stuff has been said.
    They're insignificant. UT3 wiped Halo's lower intestine.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 19:57

  • Apologie #160 4 years ago

    @ronuds

    Do you really believe in Microsoft employees when they claim that the design fault were only detected after the system launch?? Please... they wanted to anticipate Sony, and they did, withought ever caring about the product reliability..., the extended warranty was not an issue at all "except for the consumer" given the money that company holds, so no problem as long as there are people like you... that don't have quality standards... hell, after all the process is done, you even end up thinking they'r great for reparing the defective system they sold to you (when they knew from the start of it's defection).
    I don't care about the extended Warranty, a product that have failure rates that high, scratches game discs and dies "sometimes only after 1 or 2 weeks" is in my opinion unacceptable, and a disrespect for the consumer.
    Edited by 1 at 05/12/07 @ 19:57

  • miiiguel #161 4 years ago

    Microsoft employees are evil.

    The Axis of Evil:
    Microsoft+Microsoft employees+HD-DVD= Microsoft Digital Download Monopoly (and shit)

    The Axis of Redemption:
    Sony+Sony employees(skirts 4 fingers below the knee)+Blu Ray= Porn Free Media Format
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 20:05

  • polar #162 4 years ago

    But Transformers is complete crap. Who give a shit what Bay thinks?

  • ronuds #163 4 years ago

    @ Apologie,

    I'm in no way defending MS for releasing a defective console. It's deplorable and should never happen. My point being, AT LEAST THEY DID SOMETHING for us to "sort of" make up for it. So at least if my console does die, I'll be able to have it replaced for free.

    What was it that you said Sony did for all of the PS2's that were dropping like flies again? Oh, that's right...you didn't respond as usual because there's nothing to say since they didn't do anything.

    I don't love MS, but to think Sony is any better is simply fooling yourself.

    But since you'll most likely not respond to my inquiries and instead compose another MS hate piece, there's nothing more to say here.

  • miiiguel #164 4 years ago

    I'm leaving work now, and I'll scratch a few of those evil MS employees cars parked across the street.

  • zuljin #165 4 years ago

    @miiiguel
    "There is not a prohibition against adult content, the BDA is an open organization that welcomes the participation of all companies interested in using and supporting the format, including those that represent the full spectrum of genres in the content industry."

    (Fairly recent article)
    http://ww w.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,208...

  • miiiguel #166 4 years ago

    zuljin, I was (am - hear that "evil MS-employess"!..., not really going to scratch your cars, do take note!) in 'silly-mode', m8. Nevermind the bollocks.
    Blu-Ray is da cool!
    Peace out!
    Edited by 3 at 05/12/07 @ 20:18

  • Scimarad #167 4 years ago

    "Bay's an idiot. One second he's pissed, then he's praising HD-DVD, then he's pissed again."

    Actually he got pissed off because his film wasn't going to be released on Blu-ray but the studio had a word and he 'kind of' retracted the statment. Not for long, apparently.

    Oh and this thread is nothing to do with HD-DVD and Blu-ray. It's another boring MS vs Sony 'debate' and I use that word loosely.

  • AgentCool #168 4 years ago

    As a long time dual-format owner I have to say that HD DVD is currently the superior format. It has had a complete specification from day one, is region free and offers an excellent range of titles. Blu-ray is not a bad format by any stretch of the imagination but it certainly feels half-assed next to HD DVD due to its still incomplete specification. The only thing Blu-ray software currently has over HD DVD is a more consistent use of lossless HD audio formats.

    The low European HD DVD disc sales are almost certainly down to the format being region free. I own over 60 HD DVD titles and only 5 are from Europe.

  • ronuds #169 4 years ago

    @ Scimarad

    "but the studio had a word and he 'kind of' retracted the statment"

    Not so sure about the "kind of" statement...read on.

    Bay's comments on why he said what he did to begin with (i.e. that he wouldn't be making Transformers 2):

    "Last night at dinner I was having dinner with three Blu-ray owners. They were pissed about no Transformers Blu-ray, and I drank the Kool-Aid hook, line and sinker."

    Continued:

    "As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard firsthand people upset about a corporate decision.

    So today I saw 300 on HD, it rocks!

    So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!"

  • yagisencho #170 4 years ago

    Poor Michael Bay. Delusional twit.

  • YourMessageHere #171 4 years ago

    Michael Bay is deflecting attention from the fact that he's made yet another film so bad it forced me to redefine "bad film" by blabbering about HD formats. I watch everything on a PC monitor and have done for years, so I don't care at all about so-called HD; my primary concern is that good films are made and distributed, not what colour the stripe at the top of the case is. I've bought maybe 4 or 5 new films since they started knocking out HD film formats, because the vast majority of new films do not deserve my money.

    I'm quite selective with films I buy, and I want the best copy I can have because I really like them and I want to experience them in the best possible way; naturally, if older films I love became available in higher quality versions, I'd want to buy them. Isn't that what the people talking about buying them again are on about?

    Isn't anyone operating a steam-like (buy right of access, not the DL itself, therefore you can DL and delete it as many times as you like) model for digital film distribution? Seems a stunning omission.

  • MasterGrief #172 4 years ago

    Microsoft = cashwhores Get a lot of viruses too ;)

    Seriously though anyone who stills buys MS products must be a glutton for punishment


    http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=caVhBCsZq...

  • miiiguel #173 4 years ago

    I love brand-rooting, right now I hate EMC, the guy on the phone said they'd replace the FC board "in 15 minutes Miguel, really!", the console screen is prompting "please allow 360 minutes for full testing".

    ... 360, how fukin ironic.

    edit: extra-tasteless statement.

    /just live with it/
    Edited by 2 at 05/12/07 @ 22:05

  • Apologie #174 4 years ago

    ronuds

    "I don't love MS, but to think Sony is any better is simply fooling yourself.

    But since you'll most likely not respond to my inquiries and instead compose another MS hate piece, there's nothing more to say here"

    _____________________

    In case you didn't noticed, i never refered Sony in my comment's... but i understand, it's just thouse big fanboy complexes of you speaking.

  • OfficialBlue #175 4 years ago

    M$ R SO EVIL!

  • Vic #176 4 years ago

    Its probably for the best that MS sticks to software--its generally buggy and unreliable, but their hardware is a complete joke. If MS can fuck up the Zune so badly, they must know that they cant compete in consumer electronics sphere.

  • niteninja #177 4 years ago

    I do hope everybody figures out that if M$ pulls this off it will be the end owning games on disc.
    It will kill the preowned market and if you buy a shit game your stuck with it tough luck.

  • miiiguel #178 4 years ago

    Sony is the best for us. MS should disappear from the face of the universe (sorry it's spelled M"string";).
    Sony doesn't want/need profit, their goal is to please us. M"string" is indeed evil.