Workers at Xbox 360 plant threaten mass suicide

By Fred Dutton Published 10 January, 2012

UPDATE: Microsoft is "investigating this issue".

UPDATE: Microsoft has issued the following statement in response to the story:

"Microsoft takes working conditions in the factories that manufacture its products very seriously, and we are currently investigating this issue.

"We have a stringent Vendor Code of Conduct that spells out our expectations, and we monitor working conditions closely on an ongoing basis and address issues as they emerge. Microsoft is committed to the fair treatment and safety of workers employed by our vendors, and to ensuring conformance with Microsoft policy."

ORIGINAL STORY: Around 300 workers at a Foxconn manufacturing plant in Wuhan, China reportedly threatened to throw themselves en masse off the building's roof following a pay dispute earlier this month.

According to a WantChina Times report, as spotted by Kotaku, the staff, who worked on the Xbox 360 assembly line, were denied a pay rise by Foxconn management.

They were then offered a choice between staying on at their current wage or taking compensated dismissal. Many workers apparently chose the latter, however, management then rescinded the offer. In protest, the workers climbed onto the plant's roof and threatened to jump off.

The mayor of Wuhan apparently intervened and helped talk the workers down.

This isn't the first time Foxconn has made headlines. A spate of employee suicides back in 2010 led to management installing nets on the sides of its buildings to stop staff jumping.

At the time, Microsoft's Phil Spencer offered the following statement:

"Foxconn has been an important partner of ours and remains an important partner. I trust them as a responsible company to continue to evolve their process and work relationships.

"That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (247) Latest comment 4 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Scimarad #1 5 months ago

    Holy crap, and to think I moan about my job...

  • Feanor #2 5 months ago

    Jump In.

  • Laythe_AD #3 5 months ago

    Microsoft. Ever the responsible, caring contractor.

  • Bruce_One #4 5 months ago

    Vote with your feet...

  • Bulbatron #5 5 months ago

    What on Earth are these people doing to their employees to make them threaten suicide?

  • barkertron #6 5 months ago

    Translation of Phil Spencer statement: "Foxconn are miles cheaper than any other manufacturing option, so we basically decided that we could deal with their dodgy moral standpoint as long as we can continue rubbing ourselves with money every night."

    Not that most other electronics companies are much better - Foxconn deal with a huge number of clients, including Apple.

  • jonbwfc #7 5 months ago

    @Bulbatron Making them watch 'The Royal Bodyguard'?

  • Sharzam #8 5 months ago

    I laughed when i read

    "That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."

    Bollocks do they , all major corprations only care about how they can make there products as cheap as possible to maximise profit. If they really cared that much they would have a production facility clooser to home where it can be monitored and covered by local human protection laws eg the US or EU.

  • t8yman #9 5 months ago

    @Bulbatron you do know there are people all over the world who work hard every day for about $1?
    how would you feel if you were getting paid $1 a day to produce something that sold for about $300 overseas?

  • barkertron #10 5 months ago

    From Foxconn's Wikipedia page:

    "Well-known products Foxconn manufactures include the iPhone, the iPad, the PlayStation 3, the Xbox 360, the Wii, and the Amazon Kindle."

    So that's nice.

  • itsfuzzy #11 5 months ago

    Poor sods, there life must be hell working there. Foxconn do not have a great track record for employees rights, they have nets all around the outside of the building to catch jumpers. And thats not an exageration, its true.

  • kassmageant #12 5 months ago

    it's better for them to invest in something as absurd as nets to catch suicidal workers than give them little extra cash? what a strange world we live in also, @Feanor, Sir, i salute you, you made my day : ))

  • RedRain #13 5 months ago

    Makes me laught that microsoft and other companys act like they care when infact they support slave labour but in the end who does care we get cheaper products becuase of this

  • spekkeh #14 5 months ago

    FFS Apple, MS and the like, I'd happily pay three euroes more if that means you don't have to produce your machine by Chinese sweatshops.

  • dudefella #15 5 months ago

    I would gladly pay more money for my luxury entertainment products if it meant these kinds of things didn't happen.

  • RedRain #16 5 months ago

    @spekkeh lol It would be alot more then 3 Euros

  • trebellk #17 5 months ago

    @laythe But wiki says they make the following:

    "Well-known products Foxconn manufactures include the iPhone,[5] the iPad,[6] the PlayStation 3, the Xbox 360, the Wii, and the Amazon Kindle"

    Clearly all those companies are as bad as each other.
    Edited by trebellk at 10/01/12 @ 17:58

  • dadrester #18 5 months ago

    "That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."

    So committed that they're still using Foxconn, despite a number of suicides at their plants over the last 3 years. What steps have Foxconn actually taken regarding this, other than installing nets and making workers sign agreements that state that if they commit suicide the company is able to withhold pay and is not held accountable?
    Edited by dadrester at 12/01/12 @ 13:34

  • Grump #19 5 months ago

    I'm going to try this tactic in my upcoming pay review.

    "20% more or I jump!"

    It makes me laugh thinking about how they would react. They would probably say 'Go on then. Wanker'

  • DurzoBlint #20 5 months ago

    "We are, of course, more committed to paying as little as possible for labour, because workers aren't human beings like capitalists are."

  • threemoh #21 5 months ago

    I have to wonder what they think they're going to achieve by killing themselves- the 'give us more money or you'll be short a few staff' thing, as a negotiation tactic, makes sense, fine. The 'suicide' as a way out of a shitty job/existence makes sense in a sort of 'sledgehammer-to-crack-a-walnut' kind of way, again, fine.

    Gluing the two together makes no sense- it's not like they can go away and get a better deal after killing themselves, nor does it infer any real disadvantage to the company threatened if they go through with it (eg those threatening starting their own firm, or strengthening a competitor). At most, it's going to slow Foxconn production down, but not more so than everyone simply walking.

  • altitude2k #22 5 months ago

    It must be pretty demoralising knowing you'll never be able to afford one of those beautiful machines you make every day.

    #poorunderpaidsods

  • verynaughtyboy #23 5 months ago

    The product they manufacture is pretty damn suicidal too!

    Seriously though, as was said above, I would gladly pay more for my luxury item so that these people were paid more.

  • The-Bodybuilder #24 5 months ago

    The en Mass Effect of the company's decisions?

  • The-Bodybuilder #25 5 months ago

    I love the high moral ad ethical standards in business...

  • TRUTH #26 5 months ago

    MS, Apple, Amazon etc etc...all know the standards and abuse that goes onn. But! its cheap and extremly profitable for Western countries...They simply all pretend they care.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #27 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • rudedudejude #28 5 months ago

    They have always been hella cheap for their parts, that's for sure.

  • Badassbab #29 5 months ago

    China = Mass cheap assembly plant for Western and East Asian products...for shipping to Western and East Asian consumers at a giant profit

  • dirtysteve #30 5 months ago

    ' I trust them as a responsible company to continue to evolve their process and work relationships.'

    Wow, way to try wash your hands of it all.

  • rob_of_the_robots #31 5 months ago

    Don't commit suicide, just purposely create faulty products. Microsoft would soon have the customers on their backs about it.

  • evild_edd #32 5 months ago

    That's some pretty stern Trade Union action!

    I dread to imagine the Chinese equivalent of Thatcher...... a literal 'breaking' of the unions!

  • OllyJ #33 5 months ago

    a few of them should spunk in the 360's just like what they do at restaurants.

  • dadrester #34 5 months ago

    Don't commit suicide, just purposely create faulty products.

    While stuff like this sounds fair in a forum post, in reality the corporate strategy and working environment at foxconn is geared towards extreme bullying and degradation. Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen, if you will.

    I expect that if you fuck things up, go too slow or make mistakes; the amount of abuse and mental turmoil you're put through is very hard to face, even if you know you're doing it on purpose.

  • kentmonkey #35 5 months ago

    Quick get some motion-cap cameras on them. Mirrors Edge 2 can be made after all.

  • hiscore #36 5 months ago

    "A spate of employee suicides back in 2010 led to management installing nets on the sides of its buildings to stop staff jumping"

    "We need bigger nets!"
    Edited by hiscore at 10/01/12 @ 18:31

  • TheJuriel #37 5 months ago

    Yeah, this is fucked up. I'd pay more to not have them use SLAVE LABOR, for fuck's sake.

  • benfresh76 #38 5 months ago

    @threemoh why are you applying logic to an emotional, irrational act?

  • jablonski #39 5 months ago

    Must be a platform game they could make out of this?

  • DrStrangelove #40 5 months ago

    Official MS statement: "Foxconn has been an important partner of ours and remains an important partner. I trust them as a responsible company to continue to evolve their process and work relationships.
    "That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."

    Same time, in MS boardroom: ROFLROFLROFL


    *"MS" can be replaced by "Sony", "Apple", "Nintendo", whatever you like.

  • OllyJ #41 5 months ago

    @Eurocensor

    No.

  • DrStrangelove #42 5 months ago

    @JAGUARCD32x
    And to think it could all be settled with free cake and tea at breaks,for shame
    Foxconn offered cake, but it turned out to be a lie.

  • crazyhorse174 #43 5 months ago

    Hang on, hang on - so a company that makes, amongst other things, parts for the Xbox 360, threaten suicide over pay and this is Microsofts fault? I'm confused.

  • dadrester #44 5 months ago

    @jablonski lemmings?

  • DrStrangelove #45 5 months ago

    @crazyhorse174

    It's not just parts, the things are put together there. The problem is that Foxconn is long known for massive abuse of workers, but companies like MS and (most notably) Apple still produce there because it's cheaper.

    With Apple it's especially embarrassing, given their huge profit margins and the quasi-religious idealistic Apple cult.

    Besides, you might argue Foxconn is a criminal organisation because in some Chinese districts they pay less than legal minimum wages. And I don't believe Chinese minimum wages are particularly high. Possible by corruption, I suppose.
    Edited by DrStrangelove at 10/01/12 @ 19:01

  • Der_tolle_Emil #46 5 months ago

    Foxconn is a HUGE company. Open up any electronics device you have at home and I'll bet money you'll find the Foxconn logo somewhere on the PCBs. This has nothing to do with Microsoft just as last year's incidents have nothing to do with Apple. Yes, the factories in question were mostly working to make parts for said companies but MS/Apple never directly employed the workers (as far as I know) and don't really have much to say about wages etc.

    Hopefully this report will get the horrible working conditions at Foxconn back into the headlines - I don't really see any other way for them to improve.

  • Bulbatron #47 5 months ago

    @t8yman you do know I was expressing sympathy for the workers, right? I wasn't expressing any doubt as to the validity of the article. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

  • thefishmonger #48 5 months ago

    Dunno why they are complaining, they get to play games every day.

  • DrStrangelove #49 5 months ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil
    Hopefully this report will get the horrible working conditions at Foxconn back into the headlines - I don't really see any other way for them to improve.
    I'm sure when the iPad 3 is out we'll all have forgotten about it.

  • Bulbatron #50 5 months ago

    I suppose that's the problem with things like this. On the one hand, we want the employees to be treated properly, but on the other hand we want out electronics goods at a reasonable price.

  • Po1ymorph #51 5 months ago

    In other news. Local net manufacture "Just Nets" saw a rise in profits this month with a 33% increase in orders.

  • skowhegan Verified Staff Writer, Eurogamer Network #52 5 months ago

    @threemoh Their families get a pay out if they commit suicide, I believe. That was at one point the case anyway. Seem to remember reading a disturbing report workers were doing this as the compensation for their families was worth more than several years' wages.

  • loveless #53 5 months ago

    With technology, so few people know the conditions under which things are manufactured, and even if they do, have few options for making other choices.

    And whilst western governments have good laws to protect workers in their own countries, they are toothless when it comes to imports.

    It would be nice if people like Microsoft made multiple SKUs - really cheap mass-market imports, and premium versions with better features and designs built in the west.

    Failing that, governments really need to get tougher on imports - either banning outright, or levying extra import duty, on imports from certain countries unless the full chain is regularly independently inspected to provide good care to employees.

    I'm sick of seeing western companies unable to compete when the competition can get away with treating their workers badly.

    We'll end up paying more for our goods, and I don't mind if we are still buying just as many imports - as long as it is a fair price for something produced ethically.

  • SenkaSek #54 5 months ago

    @Laythe_AD
    Foxconn

  • KopparbergDave #55 5 months ago

    Let's face it, this company does things cheaper than any other, probably (seemingly obviously) from exploitation of their workers which most likely extends from their pay to poor working conditions... and Western companies, nay Western civilisation NEEDS this to function. The business world, always sniffing out new ways of eking more money out of something LOVE this! Indeed, if everyone was paid fairly around the world then most likely your Xbox would cost £400 and so on..... it's a conundrum isn't it. What do you want?

  • flanker22 #56 5 months ago

    yup foxconn ONLY manufactures xbox360s.... whats with the misleading headline.

  • silverjon #57 5 months ago

    If you think this is bad, all 6,500 employees at Shropshire County Council last year were told that they would be dismissed and then re-hired the next day but at a 5.4% pay cut as well as changes to their sick-pay arrangements.
    It's a tough world these days, but I admire the Chinese workers' approach to negotiating: win or die.

  • Bonders99 #58 5 months ago

    At the time, Microsoft's Phil Spencer offered the following statement:

    "Foxconn has been an important partner of ours and remains an important partner. I trust them as a responsible company to continue to evolve their process and work relationships."

    What he meant was. "As long as they are cheap we don't give a flying fudge what happens to their workers"

    Capitalism at it's very best.

  • Jayaitch #59 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 18:50:52 11-01-2012

  • blooter #60 5 months ago

    @evild_edd

    Instead of safety nets Thatcher would have put spikes at the bottom

  • Subdominator #61 5 months ago

    @Laythe_AD Foxconn really works for almost everyone in the industry.

    I know Foxconn pretty much treats their workers as slaves (six day weeks, ten hour days,pretty low wages) but then again noone forces them to work there. If you're not happy with your payment quit. Go back to the countryside. Or find a different job. Threatening suicide is retarded. Especially when Foxconn is the only company that raised salaries yoy by 73 %. Why? Because they had a couple of suicides. Seems like those morons working there think it's a viable option to get more money now. Thankfully this episode is soon to be over, Foxconn ordererd one million industry robots last year as a direct result of the raises. Yes, one million. To replace the majority of their 1.2 million employees.

  • Inmediasress #62 5 months ago

    Well what can I say.
    China is a country to be ashamed of in modern days apart from North Korea, then again the blame is on the modern societies and capitalistic greed that basically makes it fair play to do anything for money.

    No wonder that most philosophers agree that Capitalism is failing in to create the long awaited paradise and will probably be quite dead sooner or later.
    My opinion is that greed should be limited not encouraged and anyone who walks with open eyes in the world should agree to that.
    You just can't build a flourisihing society where the only religion is greed/money aka Capitalism.
    Edited by Inmediasress at 10/01/12 @ 20:25

  • super_monty #63 5 months ago

    They must have been through the 'L.E.A.N' program.

    (sorry a business joke)

  • dadrester #64 5 months ago

    MS/Apple never directly employed the workers and don't really have much to say about wages etc.
    You know who determines the price of components in these markets don't you?

    In UK supermarkets like ASDA and Tesco (the Austrian equivalent would probably be Billa) for example the supermarkets will tell the sellers, the smaller firms that produce and package foods and the farmers how much they're going to sell for.

    They do this by starting trading with the the small markets ("Yay! someone as big and important as tesco wants to buy from me!"). Then upping demand to a point where the businesses can't supply anyone else ("Ooft, Don't think I can really sell to Joe Bloggs anymore. But who cares. Tesco are far more important"), essentially making themselves the only customer. Once they've done this they can pretty much dictate selling prices because if the seller says no, they can just up and leave, which then fucks the small firms over completely.
    Edited by dadrester at 10/01/12 @ 20:28

  • cyber_nicco #65 5 months ago

    Gimme a break - it was obviously just a stunt. You could not organize a mass suicide over a rescinded severance package.

    Not even in China.

  • codenameaf7 #66 5 months ago

    @spekkeh unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Any increase in throughput or employee performance per buck and the useless managers of the manual workers (that do f*** all besides screaming "work faster" at his/her employees) get a payrise, not the worker doing the job. No matter how much more you'll pay, the fat cats (managers) at Foxconn or any other company get the extras you're willing to cough up, because at the end of the day, what would they rather have -- more money and a pat on the back from its American partners for increasing profits, or more pay for the depressed workers on the verge of insanity and lose their own jobs as managers? I'm not surprised in the least as it is the case with any major organisation that employs manual workers, but this is one of the worst cases.

  • mr2ange #67 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:14:14 11-01-2012

  • miiiguel #68 5 months ago

    @mr2ange: FFS, that's ridicule, Sony just opened a factory in Brasil. Come on, you can be pro-Sony or whatever without the need to resort to such ridicule claims such as "Sony is Japanese so they're close to China so they can use sweat chops, they don't seek profit, it's just geography and good will".
    Edited by miiiguel at 10/01/12 @ 21:10

  • mikeleddy83 #69 5 months ago

    @diddy1978 Ban this prick!

  • sfp_noodle #70 5 months ago

    @cyber_nicco

    Then why has the company got nets around its buildings? They are obviously aware of it, but could not give a flying fuck about it. Being in China where working standards are so poor, they'll probably get away with this kind of treatment forever.

  • Toadie48 #71 5 months ago

    @Bulbatron - It says it in the article... dumb ass...

  • Breach #72 5 months ago

    Cameron would like more of our companies run like Foxcomm.
    I'm convinced of it.

  • Benno #73 5 months ago

    jesus, what the fuck is going on in that company?

  • TheEarlOfZinger #74 5 months ago

    @Eurocensor

    Yep, it's like complaining about the dwindling rainforests yet having a mangowood tv cabinet in your front room.

    Suppy and demand. What a fucked up world.

  • mousearmyone #75 5 months ago

    @flanker22 This article applies specifically to workers on the XBox360 production line so it's accurate if a little incendiary.

  • miiiguel #76 5 months ago

    If anyone's to blame that would be China's government 1st, that was the way for development they chose. 2nd would be general consumer, that's me and you: there's a high pressure for as cheap as possible in the West/Japan as seen on the new handhelds quasi-fiasco. Companies in the West can't drop their employees wages since unions are legal here, let alone their big excutive bonus, so I can't see this changing. We can all go high horse here, but at the end of the day, we want as cheap as possible, and make it fast.

  • Sylvaners #77 5 months ago

    You should not have to lose your life in order to make a living. These are American companies, not only outsourcing jobs, but hiring companies that mistreat workers, greed is something else. Are great job creators at work .

  • mossychops001 #78 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 11:49:27 04-05-2012

  • AnotherIdiot #79 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 21:51:14 10-01-2012

  • Marshall2008 #80 5 months ago

    Meh, better than striking, at least they create jobs for the unemployed.

    But on a serious note, it's pretty fucked up that their only bargaining tactic is to commit suicide.
    Edited by Marshall2008 at 10/01/12 @ 22:23

  • silversun #81 5 months ago

    This place been in the news for all the wrong reasons.
    I know its china and it lot different from working in the uk, but do they have good working conditions there? (this is a question?), it's sad to see a hobby i love then see the reality of how some of these consoles are made.
    This story may keep come up but it wont go away, also if it were not for internet i would never of heard about this place.
    Edited by silversun at 10/01/12 @ 22:36

  • Bulbatron #82 5 months ago

    @Toadie48 Would somebody, for the love of sanity, please explain to me what I've said that's managed to be so offensive? Whatever it is, I'm sure I'm sorry, but please, just explain what I've said wrong.

  • ForozM #83 5 months ago

    And people think cheap electronic devices would be possible if the Chinese had democracy.

  • TazerFan #84 5 months ago

    Apple is in hot shit in USA right now over roughly the same thing, it was one one of their radio programs.

  • TazerFan #85 5 months ago

    And anyone in here feeling judgmental should know that these are the conditions for every major electronics manufacturer on the planet, and if it weren't for the low labor costs, the HDTVs and PS3 and iPhones and Xbox 360s that you love would be 5-10x more expensive. Hope you're enjoying them!

  • dirtysteve #86 5 months ago

    @Eurocensor Did you know when you bought your console that this was happening? Because I didn't.

  • Obli #87 5 months ago

    @verynaughtyboy if we paid more for these items, the money would not go in the factory workers' pockets, but the greedy bastards at the top. Besides, Microsoft want to sell the 360 at a lower price point than the PS3...

    "A spate of employee suicides back in 2010 led to management installing nets on the sides of its buildings to stop staff jumping" - Jesus, Yeah, nice to see they addressed the root cause there! Man, I'm getting sick of all the greed in the world. And the bullshit. What MS came out with is bull.
    Edited by Obli at 10/01/12 @ 22:58

  • DRUNK3N-_-DRAGON #88 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 23:05:14 10-01-2012

  • Swole_Robot #89 5 months ago

    @Subdominator Really dude, the old "why not go work somewhere else?" argument. Seriously, fuck you man. You're a spoilt piece of shit whos lack of empathy is matched only by a lack of common sense. You contradicted yourself in your own comment ffs. Simply quiting isnt an option for a lot of these people because if they quit they risk starving. "Don't like it? Well you're free to leave" isn't a fair argument.

    Think about this; someone punches you in the face first thing in the morning every day but when you ask them to stop they tell you you can make it stop easily by moving to a different country. Sure, you're free to leave but that person shouldn't be punching you in the face to begin with.

  • Casserole #90 5 months ago

    "But I want my Xbox at 99, not 500!!!"

    It's the consumers' desire for cheap that has fuelled this sort of culture on HUMAN BEINGS. Just look at how everyone wants a bargain, goes on price comparison sites etc... who do you think in the end "pays" for it - in humanity terms, rather than financial cost?

  • DrStrangelove #91 5 months ago

    "Microsoft takes working conditions in the factories that manufacture its products very seriously, and we are currently investigating this issue."
    Please Microsoft, please. Change something, make an example. Imagine MS would do something to improve the working conditions of the people that Apple didn't care about. Wouldn't that be some nice PR?

  • MDJRUK68 #92 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 00:58:33 17-01-2012

  • Casserole #93 5 months ago

    - diddy1978 - I thought racism wasn't allowed on these boards?

  • stryker1121 #94 5 months ago

    A loving, caring faceless global mega-corporation.

  • Nithron #95 5 months ago

    It's difficult to know what to do about this. If, theoretically, we did all just boycott these companies - the sweatshop workers would just become unemployed. And being unemployed in China is not going to be fun, is it.

    If I had to guess, i'd say this wont stop until there's a revolution over there. Unfortunately the Chinese government is armed to the teeth, so that will actually be horrible.

  • roughsleeper #96 5 months ago

    @Eurocensor said:
    " "Wow, way to try wash your hands of it all."

    Yes, that's a terrible display of poor ethics from MS. Thankfully, we're not supporting the poor treatment of workers at Foxconn as none of us have ever bought a 360, PS3, Wii, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Kindle or any of the numerous other electronic gadgets made there, so we can take the moral high ground."

    I have never bought any of these products or even xbox 1 or ps1 or 2 or any hand held gaming device. I have a basic phone that sends and recieves calls. Never paid for Nike, Adidas etc, or labelled expensive clothes. I'm pretty sure the routers I use and PC components in my kit are made under such degrading and unapreciated non ethical work environments, but I do my damn best not to follow the f@@king sheep and investigate who I buy from. I also always buy cash and have never had a credit card or debt.

    It makes me sick reading this article and some of the comments. Nobody gives a damn. Such a shame.

  • callum9999 #97 5 months ago

    @Nithron No, if we all boycotted then they would increase standards. Yes, they would lose some business due to the increased costs making other countries just as competitive, but they'd be better off overall. And as a consumer, I am not particularly bothered whether the person I am "helping" is employed in Bangladesh, Pakistan or China - someone, somewhere will benefit from the increased standards, whether it's a Chinese person or not.

    And for those on here going on about how caring you are as opposed to Microsoft and how you'd pay €3 more to help them out - how about you just don't buy from them in the first place? Oh, that's right, because you are just as hypocritical as the companies you are criticising. Caring and concerned to the media/to others, when it comes down to money or materialism, it's straight back to "sod them, I want a new game"...

  • callum9999 #98 5 months ago

    @roughsleeper Basic phones are just as bad as top of the range phones are for mistreating employees... Same with cheap clothes and trainers. And I hardly see how never having a credit card or debt is remotely relevant to this?

  • asho #99 5 months ago

    phew! when I read the word mass I thought twas about mass effect 3 production workers.

  • ollyn #100 5 months ago

    @TRUTH Actually it really isn't profitable for western countries. Entirely the opposite in fact it drains money from western economies to produce in other countries. If they were created in Western markets and sold in western markets the company would probably sell less due to increased pricing but all the money would stay within the country.

    It does however benefit the companies to take advantage of the global workforce.

  • patchbox360 #101 5 months ago

    sick

  • dadrester #102 5 months ago

    @roughsleeper

    1) The fact you've never borrowed money from a financial institution is good for you but has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ANY of this discussion.

    2) Which comments specifically, show us up as people who don't give a damn? I can only see 2, and both have been negged to fuck.

    3) Your "investigations" are correct. Most of the components in your PC, mobile, TV, HiFi, pocket calculator and digital alarm clock come from what are essentially sweat shops...

    4) ...and unless you're paying through the nose for American Apparel or some tie-dyed, organically farmed, fairtrade shirt, your clothes and non-branded trainers are also being mass produced in sweatshops.

    The only difference between most branded items and non-branded items is the amount of marketing money the companies that sell them have to spend. If you're buying something that's "ethically" produced you'll damn well know about it, because not only will the sellers be in your face telling you (see American made skate shoes for example), but you'll also be paying a premium.

    Maybe that's the solution, paying more to buy only produce and products that are ethically created, but in the case of something like videogames, that's never going to happen. We'd all become luddites.

    As socially responsible as you sound, "never having bought a games console" you still concede that the components in your PC are manufactured under the same conditions. Which means, because you want to play games on your PC (you are, after all posting on a games based website), your ethics go straight out of the window, and you're on exactly the same footing as everyone else in here.

    I'm almost certain the reason you haven't bought any games consoles, isn't because of how they were manufactured, it just happens that you haven't and posting about it in this context relieves you of some of your guilt. It shouldn't.
    Edited by dadrester at 11/01/12 @ 01:36

  • Sar #103 5 months ago

    I bet their Xbox Live accounts were hacked.

  • Kami #104 5 months ago

    This is such a complicated issue.

    People in the West have every right to feel guilty, however the reality of the world of economics is this is why manufacturing parts and services moved to the east of Asia in the first place - India, China, Pakistan, all three can produce services at a human labour cost that yes, is utterly deplorable but at the same time, encouraged and exacerbated by the governments and political situations in said countries.

    Some may be surprised to hear a portion of production is moving out of China because its getting too expensive to employ people with a more tangible grasp on their civil rights.

    But to say we should not buy the products doesn't actually help either - boycotting the products doesn't hurt Foxconn, who create the parts, it hurts the companies like Nintendo, Apple and Sony. And I'll tell you this - the people who would move in to take over any ground lost will be just as bad, if not worse. Plus Foxconn don't care, they mass-produce parts and sell them at cost to companies. Your boycott would change... nothing at all. They'll just ship parts off to other companies.

    What needs to change is not to boycott or generally make things worse, but for companies like Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and yes, even the usually uncharitable Apple to make donations to support housing projects, to support education, to support the standards of living for so many of these people. And surprisingly, these sorts of projects are not that expensive to perform - and often give a much more solid work ethic and sense of pride in the workforce, because they feel like the people buying these products give a toss. Which they probably don't. But it looks that way from the other side.

    Foxconn are clearly scum, but if you punished them, you can wager someone will buy them out and that those people will be just as bad, if not worse, to recoup the money spent.

    It will take a concerted effort from all involved - I think the industry needs a new logo sticker, which denotes companies who are giving money back to the workers who make their products and making their lives better. You know, like the FairTrade logo? Something that can be used to perhaps move ethical standards on, because not having it is going to win you far less brownie points from the consumers at large, who clearly want to be more concerned about the welfare of the workers making such products.

    They'll all jump on board, give X% of money to the scheme and in time, not immediately but in time, standards will improve.

    I would certainly be happier paying 10% more for an ethically-sourced machine. I mean, look at the FairTrade and Freedom Food model and how they have boomed in recent years to demonstrate that yes, we ARE happy to pay a little more in the knowledge that the extra cost is warranted - and used appropriately.

    It's something to think about. But it's such a complex issue, that this taking sides nonsense is daft. Wages are low in China because the value of their currency is low. Wages are low because of the lack of human rights legislation. Because there are people desperate for jobs who will happily take home $1 a day, because it's $1 more than they were earning a year or two ago. And companies deal with the likes of Foxconn because they have a monopoly on this area, they own more factories or they employ the most staff and therefore can supply the cheapest parts.

    Change takes time. Rather than bitching about something that quite frankly can't be changed that quickly, why not ask the industry to support a new ethical standards audit and logo and see where it goes?

    We may not see much for a couple of years, but we don't need a short-term fix. We need a long-term solution.

  • frazzl #105 5 months ago

    @Laythe_AD You do realize that Foxconn make products for Sony, Apple, and a large number of other electronics manufacturers as well?

  • dadrester #106 5 months ago

    @Kami here, here!

  • potatoes #107 5 months ago

    "I open up my wallet; and it's full of blood"

  • potatoes #108 5 months ago

    @dadrester That was one of the best answers I have ever read. Kudos to you sir!

  • potatoes #109 5 months ago

    @Kami Two brilliant comments in the same thread! Oh my gosh.

    (sorry for the multiple posts - no edit button on the mobile site)

  • PenguinJim #110 5 months ago

    Jesus Christ, Ashcraft loves this story and keeps banging on and on about the suicides at Foxconn, completely ignoring the fact that Foxconn employees have a lower-than-average suicide rate. His claim that the suicides made "major news in 2010" is wrong - it was mostly reposts of his awful poorly-researched FUD at Kotaku, but now we have posters like dadrester who think that there were "huge numbers of suicides at their plants".

    Way to spread the poor journalism, EG. It was bad enough that the below-average suicides made it into the gaming press at all last year, but to link this unrelated story back to that non-story is really, really shoddy.

    Although I can see "Small-Scale Pay Dispute Bluff At Large Manufacturing Plant In China" wouldn't quite bring in the same number of hits...

  • Kami #111 5 months ago

    @PenguinJim; I think the issue here is there shouldn't be ANY suicide rate. At all.

    If we want standards to improve, we do have the power to say we are happy to play a little more in the knowledge ethical standards are upheld. We, as consumers, have the power to instigate change. We can't rely on Foxconn and their ilk to do it.

    So rather, it is our task to convince Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Amazon et al to intervene, in the hope and long-term aim of exerting enough pressure on them to make radical changes.

    As I said, I for one would be more than happy to support a new ethical scheme for the industry. These are luxury goods, not essential services, and we should not only demand good parts and customer service, but ethical and sensible sourcing that values the workforce required to make those parts.

    We have that kind of power. We just need to be made more aware of these conditions, and be prepared to pay a little more for these luxuries if it means normal working people get a better deal at the end of it.

    Change takes time, and will cost us a little extra, but it's nothing compared to the goodwill it would show from us, and these companies, to those who make the parts, that we support an ethical scheme that supports their rights to a life, sensible work hours, healthcare and education.

    You can't really put a price on that.

  • Azilis #112 5 months ago

    Just today I was listening to one of my regular podcasts (This American Life, which is a weekly NPR radio show here in the US), and they had a lengthy story on conditions at a Foxxcon plant that manufactures Apple products.

    "Don't commit suicide, just purposely create faulty products. Microsoft would soon have the customers on their backs about it."

    From what I hear, they are pretty closely monitored with cameras, etc., all for efficiency. If they don't work carefully and quickly, they get replaced.

    "Yeah, Sony and Nintendo would never use a company like Foxconn. Oh wait, yes they would, and they do."

    Sony, Nintendo, Apple, Amazon, and I'm sure many others, but the point of this story is not which company was at fault. This case just happened to take place at a Foxconn plant working on Microsoft products, so that's why Microsoft was mentioned. Nobody implied other companies are any better than others, so leave the fanboy arguments out of this.

  • Slipstream #113 5 months ago

    @Feanor Hahaha! I do love the quickness of this site sometimes xD

  • dadrester #114 5 months ago

    Post deleted at 02:24:17 11-01-2012

  • dadrester #115 5 months ago

    @PenguinJim Fair enough but suicide rates aside, there are some pretty damning reports on foxconn and their gross mistreatment of staff which still beg the question about how this needs to be tackled.

    Surely engaging with the issue can only be a positive thing, weather the journalist is writing in an inflammatory way or not?

    Besides, the only reason the suicide rate at Foxconn is lower than average is because they're all too busy working 15 hour days to kill themselves.

  • Nithron #116 5 months ago

    @callum9999 That would happen if Microsoft knew their sales were dropping because everyone was suddenly extra moral in their purchasing decisions, but I was kind of operating on the idea that people would just stop buying sweatshop produced goods, rather than an actual movement to try and get more ethical working conditions. But then I did use the word "boycott", which suggests something like that, so I guess I should've been clearer.

    It's irrelevant really, because that's not going to happen. Revolution it is then, I suppose.

  • HeNiCiDe1988 #117 5 months ago

    Man thats pretty heavy I hope they get a good deal but they probably wont Foxconn sound like douchebags.

  • blicko #118 5 months ago

    @drghdfhfg - Instead of spamming this site with your cheap fakes, why don't you get a real job? May I suggest Foxconn's XBox assembly line?

  • riseer #119 5 months ago

    @Eurocensor It says Xbox 360 plant so i am not sure about the other devices build.

  • Kami #120 5 months ago

    On that note, how much you think the botters get paid?

  • fisherpot #121 5 months ago

    It's pretty f@@ked up the chinese government lets there people earn shit wages for the west to still abuse below minimum wage on another countries soil! Considering china has 1 of the best economies in the world and that still goes on there!

  • SG #122 5 months ago

    "That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."

    Microsoft is committed to the fair treatment and safety of workers employed by our vendors, and to ensuring conformance with Microsoft policy.

    Considering that they've opted to make the products in China, I find that highly doubtful.

    I find it very frustrating that unlike food and clothes, you don't have an option to get an item from an ethically-sourced producer, even if it means paying more. I don't have an Xbox, just a Wii but I imagine they use similar manufacturing sources.

    Governments can stop things like drugs coming into the country, why can't they make products that are manufactured in these conditions illegal? If all the 1st world countries did this it'd revolutionise the world. It really makes me sick.
    Edited by SG at 11/01/12 @ 03:09

  • ROCK-NYC #123 5 months ago

    @Feanor Classic!

  • PenguinJim #124 5 months ago

    @dadrester Just out of curiousity, do you know how conditions/pay at Foxconn compare with other factories in China? Or on farms in China? We are not prisoners, and no-one is being forced to take or to continue their employment at Foxconn.

    And my issue isn't with the journalist writing in an "inflammatory" way - it's with basic factual errors in the reporting that, if corrected, would actually have reversed last year's headlines entirely (they should have read "Foxconn Staff Less Likely To Kill Themselves Than The Average Citizen" ). By your logic, we could have a newspaper article tomorrow with the headline "Liverpool Killing Children" which lists the number of funerals for children in Liverpool, with no reference to whether or not this is higher or lower than the average, and expect the Mayor of Liverpool to do something about it - and you'd say this is fine, as it engages with the issue of child cruelty (regardless of whether or not a single one of those reported deaths was actually linked to child cruelty).

    But this is an entertainment site, so why let the facts or genuine connections get in the way of a good story (or your comments), eh? No apologies for spreading your misinformation about the "huge number" of suicides at Foxconn, I notice. My English is not perfect - perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of the word "accountability".

    To be fair, the media here in Asia is far worse for latching onto non-news and specious connections, and we also have to endure cringe-worthy 3D recreations of the events, so perhaps I shouldn't be overly-critical about this lazy, unresearched, sensationalist article, but I can't agree with your point that it's a good thing for journalists to lie, dadrester.
    Edited by PenguinJim at 11/01/12 @ 04:07

  • PenguinJim #125 4 months ago

    @Kami "I think the issue here is there shouldn't be ANY suicide rate. At all."

    That's a wonderful goal - of course we should stop all suicide in the world. But focusing on where there is less suicide than the average seems to be an inefficient place to start.

    Certainly, suicide is a much, much larger issue among women on China's farms (for a variety of cultural reasons which are unlikely to get a Eurogamer article any time soon) - perhaps you could focus on reducing the suicide rate there? Or just do a few hours at The Samaritans?

  • Pipemould #126 4 months ago

    @altitude2k

    Lol, I read your 'poorunderpaidsods' as 'Poo. Run. Derp. Aids. Ods.'

  • Kami #127 4 months ago

    @PenguinJim; Okay, what I meant was the suicide rate should not really be above the national average. That was a daft choice of words on my part. I haz a red face. I'm sorry.

    Arguably, I do believe that no suicide at all is a wonderful but unattainable goal (won't even start on this, I'd have you here for hours...). The women on China's farms is a cultural thing - okay. But you know, if we were paying more for the ethical standards, you think perhaps China itself may take stock and change would become more widespread? It takes one spark to ignite a fire, after all.

    Of course, getting big multi-national companies to adopt a more ethical stance will be a challenge; however, they are the ones with the most power right now to instigate change. China is a country that rather prides itself on its technological aspects; if they are being called out on it by the companies buying the parts, they may be forced to address some of these issues.

    I think change will be slow; but again, for a country that is rather proud of being able to supply these parts so cheaply, a campaign to address the working conditions, salaries and healthcare - both physical and psychological - may be rather embarrassing. And be a catalyst for change.

    Or maybe not, but it beats doing nothing and pretending the issue doesn't exist, right?
    Edited by Kami at 11/01/12 @ 04:58

  • PenguinJim #128 4 months ago

    @Kami "Okay, what I meant was the suicide rate should not really be above the national average."

    And it's not. :) Job done!

  • Kami #129 4 months ago

    @PenguinJim; Haha, indeed. But I think that these people threatened to increase that average does indicate that some change may be necessary.

    And the best force for change isn't political, or from human rights groups; it is to hit them where it hurts - the companies who buy these parts, and forcing them to take some responsibility for whatever problems are going on in these manufacturers.

    It's a deeply complicated issue; as I said, there is no quick fix. It requires a long-term endeavour. And on this, I genuinely believe the industry at large has the power and ability to instigate change. It may result in a 10% price increase, but I do feel that may be a small price to pay to avoid embarrassing PR and to generally ease the conscience of consumers.

    Everything else will take time... Rome wasn't built in a day, after all.

  • skinfasst #130 4 months ago

    @Swole_Robot well said, subdominator really does seem to be a total prick.

  • skinfasst #131 4 months ago

    @roughsleeper

    Who the fuck are you, Jesus? You obviously didn't read the comments cos everyone who's been an asshole has been voted down, so screw you with your holier-than-thou attitude.

  • penhalion #132 4 months ago

    To be fair. At this point the foxconn employees know the world is constantly watching and so can play tings up a bit. 300 workers throwing themselves off a building wouldn't be a factory dispute it would be a bloody cult!

  • Davemanz #133 4 months ago

    Foxconn is fucking awful. There was a radio program on it this last weekend. They employ 400,000 factory workers. That's an unimaginably huge number. And work days are 12+ hours, higher when there's a deadline to be met. An employee last year died on the production line after working 34 hours straight. It's just incredible that it's allowed to go on in this day and age, but it's the product of a repressive government and companies given free rein to disregard the health of their employees entirely.

    I don't know if the link will be accessible from the UK, but it's well worth listen:
    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

    There's no foreseeable possibility that things will improve at Foxconn or that big electronics companies will stop producing there, but awareness is at least worth something, and as dark as it sounds this kind of news story is great in that it will hopefully put pressure on Microsoft (and others) to actually try to do something beyond issuing their bullshit statement as above.

    e: posted the wrong link!
    Edited by Davemanz at 11/01/12 @ 07:05

  • PenguinJim #134 4 months ago

    @Kami "But I think that these people threatened to increase that average does indicate that some change may be necessary."

    I really don't see that from this story at all. I see some people who were screwed over the compensation they were (allegedly) promised. Maybe they didn't get it in writing, or maybe they didn't want to wait for the courts, but they saw the "suicide" "issue" from last year and used it against Foxconn, thinking it would gain media attention and expedite matters. And perhaps it has (although they may find themselves unemployable after this little stunt).

    But it seems so obviously a bluff based on last year's non-story.

    And they also weren't threatening suicide over working conditions, either. Although, ironically, the funds Foxconn used to install nets (hahaha!) and hire lawyers to introduce no-suicide clauses could have been better spent on improving conditions. These attention-seeking lies that some commentators are so eager to justify may well be doing more harm than good.

    Also, considering the Kotaku's source claims it was 100 employees, and Kotaku and/or Want China Times (a Taiwanese site, which is notable) has bumped it up to 300 employees (didn't anyone else notice that?), I'd take the "facts" of this story with a pinch of salt. ;)

    Really, come out here and take a look around. Talk to people. Try to understand the China/Taiwan relationship and why the Taiwanese news might want to exaggerate the facts. Visit the factories (and I recommend getting out to the farms, too). Your viewpoint seems a bit naive, but if you genuinely want to help, don't write concerned comments at the bottom of shitty news articles. Actually do something.

    If you're in the UK, you might want to do something to help all of those beggars in your streets, for example. (Sorry, forgot my political correctness. "Homeless people".)

  • Kami #135 4 months ago

    @PenguinJim; Perhaps it is a bit naive of me to try to understand what is going on here, especially if as you say the majority of the reporting is of sub-standard quality. I'm curious as to the state of things; I genuinely want to know why it is that Foxconn seem to be so crummy.

    You're right, I don't wholly understand the cultural and political scenarios that exist and exacerbate the treatment of the lower-paid workers in China. What I do believe is that if we're going to spend what, £500 on a new X-Box in the next couple of years, or the new PS3, or even the Wii-U, that we all have a part to play. We are not absolved of our responsibilities to human rights just because it isn't in our back yard. We're paying up to five thousand percent more than these people are paid daily for their work. Something about that just... feels a little off, for some reason.

    But something is wrong with this scenario; we shouldn't be happy that people feel threatening suicide as an option to an industrial dispute is valid.

    However, I suspect you answered that point in your rather coy throwaway comment; "although they may find themselves unemployable after this little stunt". I find that attitude rather troubling, to be quite honest with you.

    As for charity, I do enough to make me feel better, and having relied on charitable support (and still do; mental health is still badly handled within the NHS. I say that from many, many years of experience and the long-term support I got has - not to sound too mushy and gushy here - genuinely been a life saver) I know that it can be a real force for change. But in this case, I feel that responsibility should lie with companies like Apple and Nintendo and Sony and Microsoft. We are not absolved of our role; we generate the demand that makes this an accepted norm. But the true power lies in corporate hands; that's rather troubling, no?

    So yes, maybe I am naive. But heck, you telling me I shouldn't feel bad about this? We have our toys. We take them for granted, expensive luxuries we treat as common necessities.

    I dunno. I just think it's a bit crappy of us as consumers to not give a toss about the workforce that makes this all possible. We've become so dependent on our gadgets that its almost as if we shouldn't care who is trampled on to get a product out.

    But then, I suspect it is the political and cultural climate in these countries that made so many companies move their production lines over there; and that is something that absolutely should be ringing very large alarm bells among our political elite.

    I don't mean to be oversimplifying it however so please know I mean no offence, because I do appreciate it's not simply a case of throw money at it until the problem goes away. That never works. You just end up with a lot of ruined/wasted money - our overseas aid packages inclusive in that. It requires social, political and economic pressures to back up the investment and donations; otherwise, there is no sustainable long-term model to carry change onwards.

    Anyway, another long post. I'll leave it at this. I've said enough on this subject.
    Edited by Kami at 11/01/12 @ 07:40

  • weedar #136 4 months ago

    Yeah, big bad MS, right? Don't forget that it is us, the consumers, who demand lower prices. MS saves about 30% on manufacturing costs by having the consoles made in China. We whine and bitch if consoles are not cheap enough at launch (3DS, PSVita, PS3) and we vote with our money. We are just as much to blame as MS.

  • masterson #137 4 months ago

    The irony is of course that many of you are typing how unfair all this is on computers/consoles/smartphones/tablets that you would not have been able to afford if they'd been made in the west...

    My point is - this obviously sucks for the workers there, but we also have a role to play in this fucked up situation.

  • Canyarion #138 4 months ago

    These people live in poverty and inhumane conditions so we can have our electronics as cheap as possible. Great going.

  • Hellion83 #139 4 months ago

    Post deleted at 20:12:17 01-02-2012

  • Bullet_Tunnel #140 4 months ago

    welcome to capitalism comrades

  • BavarianHound #141 4 months ago

    The BBC have been reporting about the suicide culture, for want of a better word, and exploitation at Foxconn for well over a year now. As usual Eurogamer are hot of the press.

  • DodgyPast #142 4 months ago

    The fact that suicide rates is even considered a viable measure of how a workforce is treated is pretty damning.

    Problem is that even if consumers were prepared to pay more none of that would actually go near the workers.

  • morriss #143 4 months ago

    I'm waiting for the right-wingers to come out and say how lucky they are that they're working and there's nothing we in the West can do about it and it's local problems etc.

  • AaronTurner #144 4 months ago

    people won't pay more for products, it's a nice sentiment but just look at the 3ds

  • AaronTurner #145 4 months ago

    people won't pay more for products, it's a nice sentiment but just look at the 3ds

  • AaronTurner #146 4 months ago

    people won't pay more for products, it's a nice sentiment but just look at the 3ds

  • bluetoothion #147 4 months ago

    Usually i found the site to be more MS oriented BUT on this headline alone i find no reason for 360 to be even mentioned... such as all companies have if not the same , similar in ''policy'' contractors.

    And the issue of working conditions starting with age going to hours/wage in every one of the so called rising economies such as India and china is a matter that many COUNTRIES and not just evil multinational corporations turn a blind eye on. It is so sad and so serious as a matter, that this article shouldn't be in EG guys.
    Edited by bluetoothion at 11/01/12 @ 08:53

  • addugg #148 4 months ago

    Man, this is really horrible to hear.

  • PenguinJim #149 4 months ago

    @morriss What are you doing about it, morriss?

  • swisstony #150 4 months ago

    How many of us really care about the way our consumer luxuries are manufactured. Not just 'us' on this board of course. Our moral compass is determined by geography anyway. The further away it is, the less we care, JJ Thompson more or less proved this in her groundbreaking philosophical essay on abortion.

  • Dizzy #151 4 months ago

    Welcome to consumerism. Like all your gadgets? All made by underpaid kids in corrupt countries.

  • mcmothercruncher #152 4 months ago

    "Microsoft takes working conditions in the factories that manufacture its products when it has been caught out by journalists very seriously, and we are currently investigating this issue."

    Fucking big business chaps, they're all heart. Especially when the spotlight is on them.

  • username84 #153 4 months ago

    @diddy1978 Yeah but to threaten strike action you need an organized workforce and unions. Or it's just 'not gong to work' and you get fired.

  • anomagnus #154 4 months ago

    You know, this is a tricky sitution. Lets be honest here, there isn't a person on this site that hasn't bought a product that wasn't manufactured in the Foxcon plant. Its like a factory for the world.

    Clearly, its not acceptable to have a sitution where slavery is basically in effect.

    At the same time though, if they had to make 360s in a factory in Birmingham, or somewhere similar, the cost of production would make 360s, and other eletronic device, unaffordable.

    Some of you can sit there and bitch at MS all you want, but equally, you'd also be bitching if your 360 cost 1000 pounds, and your ipad 6 cost the same.

    We all share a bit of the blame here

    For this to go away, the future will have to be cloud. Extremely inexpensive devices, little more than displays, streaming games and entertainment from the cloud.

  • Beano #155 4 months ago

    Looking forward to Kinect Rooftop Adventures

  • kangarootoo #156 4 months ago

    A complex issue, with lots of factors to consider.

    1. This is the same Foxconn with a history of this sort of thing as the article mentions. It should hardly be a surprise to MS that the workers at this factor are not very happy. More info -
    This from 2010


    2. Its well known that suicidal feelings are contagious, like many states of mental hysteria (I remember when Princess Diana died, and the whole of the UK went bonkers for a bit). I'm not saying that conditions at this factory are in any way good, but mass threats of suicide not a reliable measure of those conditions.

    Contrary to popular belief, people rarely commit suicide in a state of sanity because they genuinely "can't take any more" (almost all of those cases are related to long term debilitating illness) - they do so because of mental illness/instability that makes them feel like no other option exists.

    Are we really suggesting that over 300 people threatening suicide over monetary issues is sane behaviour, and accurately andproportionally reflects the working conditions at the plant? Again I say I'm not suggesting working conditions are ok, but it is clear that what is also happening there is prolonged and widespread hysteria of some kind.

    Does anyone remember a spate of suicides (nearly 20 I believe) in a Welsh borough called Bridgend some years back? Police kept saying there was no connection between them, but of course the connection was that they were happening in the same place and being reported. Nothing will push someone down an otherwise avoidable mental path than a sense of solidarity that normalises what would otherwise quite rightly seem like abnormal behaviour.


    Anyway, carry on :)

  • FireMonkey #157 4 months ago

    @JAGUARCD32x - That's because games consoles when first released make a loss on each sale. The cost does drop, but MS & Sony need to reclaim there losses before making profit from the hardware.

  • Vanmunt #158 4 months ago

    "You are going to jump?"
    "Yeah man, you first, look up I'll be right behind you"

  • irve77 #159 4 months ago

    like anyone cares !

    we all buy clothes , food and electrical goods all built on the exploitation of workers in countries where the rules about humane treatment are practically non existant

    The worst thing is people can't make a concious choice to buy differently
    Don't buy from Primark .. but GAP , NEXT etc use the same suppliers
    You would have to really have to do the legwork to buy ethically.

  • Zerobob #160 4 months ago

    Will Microsoft not just "delete" these members of staff, you know, like the forum threads regarding Metro beta feedback?

  • hello_fi #161 4 months ago

    Good way to sort out the overpopulation there, I like their initiative!

  • Fruit-Salad #162 4 months ago

    Post deleted at 01:35:51 08-02-2012

  • Seoh #163 4 months ago

    This is really sad and casts a dark shadow over the consumer electronics industry.

    I don't understand why companies still resource from foxconn and where possible i avoid them, however if you own a smart phone or tablet then it'll most likely have foxconn components or assembly. Considering the profit margins these company's operate with (i'm looking at you apple) its disgraceful.

  • Okamiwolf #164 4 months ago

    I could never work for a company like Microsoft/Apple/Sony/Nintendo, let alone be its CEO, knowing that your cost cutting decisions are destroying people's lives overseas and driving them to suicide.

  • Okamiwolf #165 4 months ago

    @Seoh Steve Job's and Bill Gate's legacy: mass suicide.
    Edited by Okamiwolf at 11/01/12 @ 10:05

  • digitalash #166 4 months ago

    @threemoh Funny how we're talking about it, isn't it? This is about the only way the average Chinese worker could make this a hot news item in the west.

  • geeza2020 #167 4 months ago

    Why do MS even bother releasing statements like the one from Phil Spencer above? Its just utter tripe, how anyone can believe that MS are dealing with these guys for any other reason than they are the cheapest is beyond comprehension. It makes me fucking sick the way these corporate cunts get away with lies that may as well just be spitting in your face; its fucking insulting and hilarious in equal measure.

  • toa_boa #168 4 months ago

    Also Apple, Nintendo, Sony and others get plenty of work done at Foxconn!

  • BearFishPie #169 4 months ago

    Of course nets will fix the problem. An elegant solution there.

    As clever and effective as the Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses from Hitch-Hiker's Guide.

  • ZouZouRas #170 4 months ago

    The sad fact is that these working conditions are coming to Europe too... Even in some countries (like Bulgaria) wages are low even through xbox for example costs the same as in Germany... Right now Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and many other countries are going to decrease wages in order to increase competitiveness... But due to euro currency prices of goods are staying the same...


    I believe that this is wrong logic... How can you expect to sell your phone/console/car if people dont have money to pay for it??? This circle of new products every 6 months / 1 year cannot go on forever... Right now with the exception of Germany every other country has give production to the asian countries because it is cheaper... Unemployment rate has shot through the roof at most european countries... This thing cannot continue... Capitalism is a giant with clay feet...

    As for the workers at Foxconn who are we kidding??? We all know that in order for our new toy to be affortable somewhere people are working practicaly for nothing. But we dont really care... We will soon... Winter is coming...


    PS: Sorry about my REALLY bad english... I hope that what i wrote makes sense...

  • madmaardigan #171 4 months ago

    Jesus Christ.....

    I don't like contributing to this industry that treats people like shit on every level, but how does one be an ethical gamer? That is, without playing only second-rate open-source knock-offs on a Lemote Yeelong netbook? Ever tried getting into gaming on Linux, it ain't pretty.

  • knaeg #172 4 months ago

    Now gaming is turning into a guilty pleasure. Fuck that Imma jump off the roof.

  • Mr.Gordons #173 4 months ago

    Foxconn make many products, including the PS3...not sure why Journalists need to create extra spin by saying "Xbox 360 plant"

    Also, the original Foxconn suicide was by one of the guys who lost an early test iphone 4.

  • FortysixterUK #174 4 months ago

    Is this a wind up?

  • NiolK #175 4 months ago

    The real story is that MS upgraded the factory to the new "Metro" layout and the workers couldn't find any of their equipment.

    Plus the supervisors were constantly showing the workers pictures of new shiny equipment and saying "Wouldn't you rather be using this screwdriver? Look how f*cking shiny it is!!".

  • Porcupine_I #176 4 months ago

    that's ok, it's just humans, as long as they don't land on a chicken or a cat...

  • konstantinos #177 4 months ago

    alas, it's all about the profit margin...

  • CrispyXUK #178 4 months ago

    By "360 plant" - You mean the place where nearly all consoles are made.

  • vizzini #179 4 months ago

    The most concerning part of this article for me is the update.

    Why do they not mention anything about the issue at hand? the worker's pay deal?

    The article doesn't say the workers were unhappy with the conditions or anything else. They were protesting about offered redundancy (with a payout) instead of the demanded pay rise, which was then withdrawn, most likely due to Microsoft, who presumably are tightly involved in the plant's day to day running costs if it is only manufacturing their 360s.

    I do expect to see follow up reporting about workers pay & conditions for the other plants that manufacture other companies' products. But I suspect Foxconn don't make everyone's products in the same factory, and are in fact just a management company convenience to allow foreign companies to do business in China legally without the normal difficulties a company would typically have as a non-national going it alone directly with the Chinese Government.
    Edited by vizzini at 11/01/12 @ 11:44

  • Fab4 #180 4 months ago

    @Mr.Gordons

    The Foxconn plant is fucking huge. These employees happen to be from an Xbox 360 assembly line.

    Also the earlier suicide rates at the plant were less than the statistical average for that amount of people in China. In fact more people committed suicide, or attempted it, in France Telecom.

  • konstantinos #181 4 months ago

    it's not about the devices being affordable for gamer Joe... it's all about the maximum possible profit and how to ensure it...
    devices can be reasonably priced and still turn in a profit... just not the humongous profit that is "expected" on annual reports of "successful" companies... the whole system is fundamentally soul(/human)-destroying...

  • jabberwocky #182 4 months ago

    Gotta love the way these headlines are portrayed, its as if its bloody Bill Gates who's cracking the whip at this factory. Maybe change the headline to something that highlights its not actually a MS owned factory.

  • Scrapper #183 4 months ago

    Typical of the disconnect (diskinect?) between corporations and the manufacturing base.

    Of course, MS themselves arent the ones paying the wages or setting the conditions, so they can't be directly blamed .... BUT they have created the conditions of the market - setting the price, and budgeting for cheap assembly. Which inevitably leads to exploitative labour practices.

    Every company using Foxconn needs to step up and pay those people better.

  • Sicho #184 4 months ago

    @t8yman "you do know there are people all over the world who work hard every day for about $1?
    how would you feel if you were getting paid $1 a day to produce something that sold for about $300 overseas? "

    but at the same time: without that job, they would have 0$ per day and nothing to eat at all.
    I´m not defending these salaries and working conditions etc. but it's still better than having no job at all. Most of these employees live in the factories -> they live under a roof and get warm meals every day, that's much more than many people even in our countries can hope for.

  • coolbritannia #185 4 months ago

    Ridiculous article. makes it sound like M$'s fault when in fact the factory is fucking huge and almost every electronic's firm uses them. A new low for EG.

  • weebl #186 4 months ago

    @spekkeh @dudefella ...and yet people on here whine about console prices when they are being sold at a loss anyway...

    If countries like China didn't have such a lack of employment regulations the electronics industry would look very different indeed.

    So who on here will buy their next console based on the ethical quality of the manufacturing processes that went into making it? Nobody. The west is happy to turn a blind eye whilst they can still get cheap goods, and the rich in the east are happy to turn a blind eye to their people being in poverty and killing themselves whilst they get the cream.
    Edited by weebl at 11/01/12 @ 12:17

  • 32768Colours #187 4 months ago

    @threemoh

    If somebody is stretched to the point of contemplating suicide, do you really think its because its a tactical option?

    Just think of the kind of hardships these people must have to live through everyday - and probably will do for the rest of their lives - if they have so few options that taking their own life seems like the only alternative.

    You're taking an extremely first world view of this issue. There's no social security net for these people if they walk so they're completely trapped. Even if the entire workfoce resigned there are so many people in poverty that the factory would probably be back to full scale operations within a day.

    Have you ever felt so helpless that death was a very real option? If you so, you have my genuine sympathies, but from your attitude I very much doubt it.

    Any company regardless of its size should act ethically and responsibly within the territories in which they operate. This must extend to ensuring that any partners provide equally responsible treatment of their employees and associated contractors. If they don't, then in my opinion, the blood of poorly treated workers is on their hands, as their commercial success is born from it.

  • Valland #188 4 months ago

    @jabberwocky MS is a stakeholder in the company. That's just as significant.

  • Skooch #189 4 months ago

    There is some real BS going on in the comments threads today...

    "I'd happily pay more for my luxury goods if it meant these poor people got a fair salary"

    Really, you'd happily pay more for almost everything you ever buy? Imagine adding a few pounds to clothing, electronics, household items, transport - it would make your salary go much less further and it wouldn't be long until you weren't so happy. Secondly, it is your own consumer behaviour that is driving the low salaries; who out of us can honestly say we don't search around for the cheapest product online whilst ignoring the ethical values of the companies we are buying from.

    @ Scrapper - No need for personal insults fella, but if you want to throw them around then I figure you can take it so I call you a hypocrite. Why don't you imagine that every good costs you 10% more, put that money aside, and then send it to the workers of Foxconn. Let me know when you've done that.
    Edited by Skooch at 11/01/12 @ 14:17

  • UkHardcore23 #190 4 months ago

    Fuck them, Move the plant to another country!!!! Mr Longway Down can then jump if he doesnt like it!
    Edited by UkHardcore23 at 11/01/12 @ 13:06

  • Scrapper #191 4 months ago

    @Skooch

    I can afford it. I'd rather pay a bit more and know that the people making stuff weren't going poor. Same goes for essential stuff like food crops and farmers getting shafted (a common issue in Australia with our supermarket duopoly).

    Also, you're a fool.

  • Snufkin #192 4 months ago

    I'd like to know more about what these people are paid compared to the average wage and cost of living in their region of Chinea. If it's reasonably close, then I'm sorry but they should suck it up like the rest of the world has had to. Or at least try going on strike first (if this is legal?).

    I get paid slightly under average wage, but I've not had a pay rise in 3 years, meanwhile my pension contributions are going up, student loan has gone up, inflation is at 5% and VAT is at 20%. If interest rates go up I'm proper fucked. Plus I'm trying to save for a wedding. Sigh.

    The whole world is hurting, so threatening suicide is a bit childish.

    However, if they're properly impoverished - then I take back all I just said. Fair wages for all!

  • kangarootoo #193 4 months ago

    @Fab4

    Good stat crunching re the average rate :)

  • kangarootoo #194 4 months ago

    Interesting how quite a few people in this thread seem to think the key issue of the day is whether MS are portrayed fairly or not alongside other games console manufacturers.




    Also, those saying they would happily pay more for stuff if it meant the workline staff got better pay and conditions... I say to you, DO IT THEN!!

    You are talking as if the option doesn't already exist. As if we don't live in a world where fairtrade equivalents aren't already on the shop shelves. A world where you can in fact just fucking abstain from some of your treats and luxuries if it will make the world a better place.

    Right now, as of this very second, you can start living the dream. Paying more for stuff, or simply not buying it, with the aim of getting a better deal for those at the start of the chain.

    To not do so is simply to exchange your "I would pay more if it meant a better deal" for "I would make the effort if it just didn't take so much damn effort". And I'm not saying that I live by this high moral code I describe, I just don't fawn about pretending that I do, or would do if it wasn't just for the world putting so many barriers in my way such as the requirement for effort and willpower to overcome an in built sense of greed.

  • Cardiff1 #195 4 months ago

    Stop whining & pretending you care.
    If they move production back to the west you lot will be the first to complain when they slap another £100 on the price tag.

  • Claimer76 #196 4 months ago

    Fuck has this got to do with anythin?

  • Madder-Max #197 4 months ago

    Fucking hell.

    Just look at this bit again and just thenk about the decision making that went into this.

    "A spate of employee suicides back in 2010 led to management installing nets on the sides of its buildings to stop staff jumping."

    Cheaper than addressing employee conditions i guess and cheaper than letting them die and having to re-hire. What absolute cunts. Pkus they are call Fox con!
    Edited by Madder-Max at 11/01/12 @ 13:25

  • Madder-Max #198 4 months ago

    @coolbritannia

    But they produce MS's only console and they control the profit margins. of course this should reflect on Microsoft

  • Nephirion #199 4 months ago

    Fair trade electronics?

  • Gearskin #200 4 months ago

    Perhaps not a popular view, but this is the way of things. Always has been, always will be. I realise some people want to live in this utopia where everyone is equal, and everything is cheap... But this isn't reality.

    And I think it's kinda daft that this is even on Eurogamer. It should be on a proper news site. It's not even directly linked to Xbox or gaming in general. It's everything.

  • samkhan27 #201 4 months ago

    @threemoh It's about sending the message, jackass.

  • DwarfyP #202 4 months ago

    @Bruce_One So don't buy PS3, iPhone and iPad as the same company makes those too.

  • Madder-Max #203 4 months ago

    @Gearskin How is it not related to Xbox or gaming? You say that people are stupid for wishing to live in a utopia and then you look for some sand to stick your head in

  • urban #204 4 months ago

    Foxconn must be absolute BASTARDS.

  • Gearskin #205 4 months ago

    Of all the goods coming out of this place, Xbox is not the most prolific. The article is loaded. "Xbox"... this isn't a problem exclusive to Microsoft.

    So many armchair do-gooders these days.

  • WilliamWolf #206 4 months ago

    It's genuinely saddening to read this, but I have to be honest and say that I won't change my gaming habits because of it. As a consumer, our choice is either buy a console or don't, and I like gaming too much.

    The reality is that for something to change, someone has to lose out. If Microsoft change their workforce (or the company that provides it) they either need to absorb the expense themselves or pass it on to the consumer. As a profitable business, they will never do the former and all of their market research will tell them it makes little sense to do the latter.

    So what can be done? If there was a fair trade version of your favourite console which cost, say, 50% more again, would you buy it? I hate to say it but I'm not sure I would.

  • StanMadeley #207 4 months ago

    What kind of monstrous company installs suicide netting on the sides of their building instead of solving the root cause of the employee’s unhappiness?

  • DwarfyP #208 4 months ago

    @verynaughtyboy Then why not bring manufacture back to Europe. Charge extra for it. Then those workers would have no jobs at all.

    Win win for everyone... :/

  • IIJAZMANII #209 4 months ago

    If a employe falls, and microsoft isnt around to hear it, do they care?

    They should just start throwing 360 instead, im sure microsoft will hear that...and those stupid kinects.

  • PenguinJim #210 4 months ago

    @StanMadeley But that's the point! There ISN'T a suicide problem! The number of Foxconn employees killing themselves are below statistical norms!

    The netting was a token response to the poor media reporting last year.

  • sevenforce #211 4 months ago

    I was gonna make a witty comment about the FOXDIE virus, but I'm tired and it wouldn't have been funny and I'm almost a day late anyways...

  • TarickStonefire #212 4 months ago

    @StanMadeley A company in China that is more interested in profit?

  • AnotherIdiot #213 4 months ago

    Foxconn do make a lot of stuff besides xbox 360s. But this article says specifically it concerns the staff on the xbox 360 assembly line, not staff manufacturing other stuff.

  • DirectAim #214 4 months ago

    Fuck me, I bet they get paid pennies, why cant companies start being responsible? I hate supporting companies that fuck people over!

  • DirectAim #215 4 months ago

    @StanMadeley Welcome to China, did you know they eat dogs, fucking born from apes them lot I tell thee

  • Kostas #216 4 months ago

    @thefishmonger "Dunno why they are complaining, they get to play games every day. "

    You are free to "jump in" the fun of playing games all day for 1 euro per day. Go on, the road is free.

  • gorf #217 4 months ago

    Achievement 20G - Sacrifice for the greater good

  • man.the.king #218 4 months ago

    A +1 to Kami for the most constructive post in this thread (Post 115 or thereabouts). Most of the others, while sharing sympathy for the victims, offered no useful suggestion.

    Now if only people with the power to actually do something were reading this thread...
    Edited by man.the.king at 11/01/12 @ 22:47

  • man.the.king #219 4 months ago

    @coolbritannia

    Ridiculous article. makes it sound like M$'s fault when in fact the factory is fucking huge and almost every electronic's firm uses them. A new low for EG.

    True.

    But if the article had named Sony if this had happened on a PS3-manufacturing plant in FoxConn, YOU would have had no problems with it whatsoever.

    This may be a new low for EG, but you have managed to make an article about manufacturing and working conditions into a fanboy affair, thus proving that nothing is ever beneath you.
    Edited by man.the.king at 11/01/12 @ 23:49

  • layleeloo #220 4 months ago

    @coolbritannia HAHAHAHAHA. Everyone knows you are MS's biggest botty boy - so that statement is pure gold hahaha.

    @man.the.king says all that needs to be said.

    Go find your MS for Dummies book and throw another one off.

  • dadrester #221 4 months ago

    @ZouZouRas I believe that this is wrong logic... How can you expect to sell your phone/console/car if people dont have money to pay for it??

    So that we all go borrow money from the banks, meaning we're not only paying the mega-corporations for products but paying other mega-corporations in order to be able to afford those products.

    Of course we all know how massive lending turns out for the banks when people begin being unable repay their debts.

  • seancswash #222 4 months ago

    Why don't they lock the door to roof, surely that would be cheaper than putting up lots of nets?

  • kevcampbell #223 4 months ago

    let them, plenty of people out of jobs so i am sure the jobs will get filled again soon enough

  • actionfitz #224 4 months ago

    At the time, Microsoft's Phil Spencer offered the following statement:
    "Foxconn has been an important partner of ours and remains an important partner. I trust them as a responsible company to continue to evolve their process and work relationships.
    "That is something we remain committed to - the safe and ethical treatment of people who build our products. That's a core value of our company."
    ---
    yeah... right.
    it's something you remain committed to as long as it doesn't effect your bottom line. If Foxconn ends up giving these people a living wage and charging you more as a result, you'll just move your manufacturing to another country with lax labour laws. Prick.

  • Atolm #225 4 months ago

    Microsoft investigating this issue? Not only is that a whole load of PR bullshit, but it mirrors the same mannerism politicians adopt when proposing their ill conceited promises in hopes of gaining public trust.

  • OPICAOPICAOPICAOPICA #226 4 months ago

    @DirectAim So you want them to be paid more but you also hate them because they are 'dogs'. You are an asshole.

  • OPICAOPICAOPICAOPICA #227 4 months ago

    @OPICAOPICAOPICAOPICA *EDIT 'apes'

  • FeralYouth #228 4 months ago

    Work sets you free.

  • dadrester #229 4 months ago

    Just saw this posted on facebook and thought it might be of interest http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/13/tim-cooks-email-to-apple-staff-regarding-supplier-responsibility-report/

  • bumnugget #230 4 months ago

    That's progress in Capitalism right there for you. Once upon a time it would have been good ol' fashioned American & English slave labour funding the lifestyles of the elite. The Chinese are just a couple of hundred years behind the curve. Whose working class are they going to enslave next when the Chinese get pissed off with it?

  • bumnugget #231 4 months ago

    ... also I disagree we have a choice or the power to enact change through individual ethical decisions. Capitalism is a corrupt system which bankrupts everybody over time from the bottom up - until you reach the powerful. There is no power for the proles to bring change, because we have all become so poor in real terms over the past few decades that we are, through the concept of money as debt, all poorer than those men on a dollar a day. Our lives might be easier, but our 'wealth' is just an illusion.

  • Architect_z #232 4 months ago

    "And I, wish you could step back from that ledge my friend"

  • Sgt_Petter #233 4 months ago

    @trebellk Sure, they may be just as bad as each other, but that doesn't make any of them any better. It's not more 'okay' just because 'everyone else' are doing it as well.

  • ZouZouRas #234 4 months ago

    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-child-labor-2012-1

  • kittenkilla #235 4 months ago

    in order to get to the bottom of this you have to ask the right questions... How many of them played Amy?

  • Kluff #236 4 months ago

    @PenguinJim You know, the Zdnet editorial you linked to bases its assumptions on a piece published by a rather Chinese friendly news site, shall we say, a site who also talks about the 60th anniversary of Tibet's peaceful liberation.

    I think I rather take this with a pinch of salt.

    To be honest, I have no idea what's true or not. In everyday life we have to trust certain chosen news sources that their reports are correct. We don't have the time to fact check!

  • b4real653 #237 4 months ago

    @Feanor hahaha

  • RoOhDaMite #238 4 months ago

    The problem with Chinese culture is that chinese people will never tell you about their problems but expect you to know about them.
    This is one of the reasons why western companies feel so comfortable at exploiting them untill the consequences hit them in the face.
    Edited by RoOhDaMite at 21/01/12 @ 14:48

  • MichaelDark #239 4 months ago

    The truth is they just bought an XBOX 360 and found out they spent so much time working for a machine that is so lame. The big brains in Microsoft haven't decided yet if Xbox is a cheap PC or an actual console, charge people for online gaming and ban players who haven't modified their console just because the may do it later. Dit I mention that X360 all-time most popular game is The Lord of Red Rings of Death?

  • SFG_Clan #240 4 months ago

    Disgusting, this is one of my issues with gaming because our compulsion often fuels this kind of business practice; effectively it's slave labour.

    Also thinking this is just Microsoft is naive, many producers of electronic consumer goods use these poor conditions to increase their profit margins.
    Edited by SFG_Clan at 23/01/12 @ 10:51

  • Kew1Melon #241 4 months ago

    Lemming time.

  • Kill_Crazy #242 4 months ago

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.xml

  • Tonka #243 4 months ago

    OMG Mucro$oft are so baaad!

  • gjgjg #244 4 months ago

    I hate money, wish I was born in star trek next gen time period. Yes I've been up all night.
    Seriously though, good luck to them. Hope it leads to better conditions in the east and inspires other ppl over there. Now rockstar need to watch out.
    Edited by gjgjg at 29/01/12 @ 14:00

  • EricCartman1st #245 4 months ago

    @Bulbatron they were game testers for MWF3

  • Roburt #246 4 months ago

    So by "investigating," Microsoft really meant that they're just waiting until people forget about this whole issue and then pretend it didn't happen?

    Is anybody following up on this story at all?

  • FireMonkey #247 4 months ago

    @Roburt - "So by "investigating," Microsoft really meant that they're just waiting until people forget about this whole issue and then pretend it didn't happen?"

    I have a feeling that isn't true.

    If they wanted people to forget about it, they would have posted this statement straight away. Instead they have left it a month which has actually reminded people of this situation (I know, I'd forgotten about it till I saw this statement).