Capcom, Ninja Theory on DmC versus Bayonetta

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 5 January, 2012

"You always want to go out there and beat your competitor."

Capcom and developer Ninja Theory have outlined the difference between the upcoming Devil May Cry reboot and Bayonetta - but admitted in some areas the games are "squarely competing".

Devil May Cry, Ninja Theory creative director Tameem Antoniades told Inside Xbox, features new mechanics outside of the combat that set it apart from the critically-acclaimed Platinum-made action game.

And Capcom USA's producer on DmC, Alex Jones, said his game will offer a different experience in terms of tone and storytelling - areas Ninja Theory, which made Heavenly Sword and Enslaved - specialises in.

"You always want to go out there and beat your competitor to some degree," Jones said. "There are places where we're squarely competing with Bayonetta, and that's at the: how does the game feel when it's in your hand? We absolutely want the same fluidity of control that's a standard setting at that level for them.

"The other areas, tone, storytelling, we're offering a different experience from Bayonetta and we feel really good about that experience. Some areas we're competing with them. Some areas we're offering something different."

"We're adding elements to this game that haven't existed in the DMC series before," Antoniades added, "like the concept of the world being alive, trying to crush you and kill you, and Dante being able to rip apart the world and manipulate it. So there are areas outside of combat we're adding.

"So I don't think they are like for like."

Platinum's Bayonetta was directed by Hideki Kamiya, the creator of Devil May Cry. Ninja Theory's DmC - the first in the franchise developed outside of Japan - is a reboot, with a very different Dante than series fans are used to.

As a result, some are concerned that DmC will stray too far from the series' roots. But Jones said Capcom Japan was working closely with Ninja Theory to ensure the combat is up to scratch.

"It's an intensely collaborative relationship, particularly in the character department," Jones said. "I can't tell you how painstaking and intensive it is. We are there three to five days out of the month with core creative from previous DMCs, most notably Itsuno-san (Hideaki Itsuno), who was the lead creative on DMC 2, 3 and 4.

"He has done a huge knowledge transfer over the past two years working with these guys to make sure that part of the game was up to the standard Capcom believes a Devil May Cry game should achieve."

"We went into this with a certain amount of humility," Antoniades explained, "understanding Capcom are master of their art when it comes to combat and mechanics and the role of enemies within that. We've been all ears and we've been working very closely.

"The feedback has not just been an advisement, it's been precision. It's down to single frames make a difference. We've been working very closely and we're really pleased with that."

But, Jones said, Ninja Theory will stamp its own authority on the DmC experience. "At the same time we know what these guys do well," he said.

"We give them a lot of latitude with atmospherics and storytelling and mood and some of the areas of gameplay outside of combat, because that's what they bring to the table that's unique to them. It's been a very good partnership to this point."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (32) Latest comment 5 months ago

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  • Colin8703 #1 5 months ago

    I'm all for being proved wrong but I'm not convinced that the new DMC will be as good as Bayonetta. No insult to Ninja Theory intended.

  • Rogueywon #2 5 months ago

    I think the big thing for me with Bayonetta was the sheer degree of charm and energy it brought to the table. Just when you thought it had pulled out all of the stops in terms of scale, lunacy and visual spectacle, it would gleefully go several steps further. I'm not sure whether DMC is really going to compete with that, or whether it even needs to.

  • zegerman1942 #3 5 months ago

    Well it's not like Ninja Theory really has a lot of gameplay varience to show for at the moment. That studio is a bit of a one trick pony. I won't hold my breath for this.

  • Naster #4 5 months ago

    Sounds good to me. Bayonetta was too loony and over-the-top for my tastes, so I'm glad if they don't take DMC in that direction with the story and the atmosphere. I have confidence in Ninja Theory.

  • GamesConnoisseur #5 5 months ago

    When first glanced the headline of this article, what with the words Capcom, Versus, DmC, Bayonetta, thought wow, interesting... a new type of the capcom's versus game!

    Ah ha, no! But why not?!

    Woulnt it be fun maybe in the imagined existence of the versus game to switch between two characters and then forced to play whichever you scores least/higher in each chapter during the versus stages that links up the chapters?

    Combat wise both are fun to play with.

  • Kaonazhie #6 5 months ago

    Better than Bayonetta? Please; DMC won't even be as good as the original DMC, a game from like 2002.

    I find it rather hilarious that the reboot of a game that essentially created a new genre, is taking massive steps back and will be nothing but a tired and generic hack'n'slash that's probably not even as good as like... Dante's Inferno (which was far from great).

  • Inmediasress #7 5 months ago

    To be honest those graphics look really dated in fact i think dmc4 had better graphics.
    Then again its still in developement though I won't hold my breath.
    BTW I'm not a graphics whore it just kinda feels very dated.

  • menage #8 5 months ago

    I'm sure DMC will be great fun, but I really think Bayonetta can only be beaten by Bayonetta 2 at this point in the combat dep.

  • Triggerhappytel #9 5 months ago

    I enjoyed Heavenly Sword and Enslaved (admittedly both more for the story & overall presentation than specifically the gameplay), so I look forward to DmC as well. I'm sure it'll be good, although I'm sceptical it'll measure up to the brilliantly batshit mental awesomeness that was Bayonetta. Certainly Ninja Theory will have to seriously raise their game in terms of combat engine if they hope to compete with that aspect of Bayonetta.

  • ro-kurorai #10 5 months ago

    Ninja Theory are great story tellers, that's true. Narrative and characterization are top notch.
    They are not, however, tech-savvy. Their first multi-platform game on UE3 (Enslaved) suffered some severe performance issues and massive screen-tearing (~30% on PS3).
    As a PS3 gamer I'd say their game-play is a far cry from Bayonetta's 60 fp/s (360). Permanent screen-tearing and frame rates below 30 will greatly affect the fun factor in a fast-paced action game like DmC, which simply doesn't work on UE3, but MT Framework only -_-

    I wish them all the best but I'm not holding my breath. NT haven't developed even one game running at consistent frame rates without any screen-tearing.
    The hand-holding in Enslaved was even more ridiculous than the massive amounts of screen-tearing, no matter how much I love that game for its story, narrative, characters and actor performances.

  • Ironic_War_Criminal #11 5 months ago

    @Kaonazhie @zegerman1942 @Rogueywon

  • dwalker109 #12 5 months ago

    The last time I heard the term "knowledge transfer" it was in relation to moving all of our server support operations offshore. That didn't go too well. I still can't get a network printer set up anymore.

  • 5h1nj1 #13 5 months ago

    Truth is, Bayonetta was the REAL new DMC. :) It has DMC written all over it, just the name and protagonist are different.
    On the other hand, what NT does, doesn't look a bit like a DMC. As I always ask: Where are the silly, tongue-in-the-cheek cut-scenes? Where are those funny dialogs? Where is the great wackines of the original franchise? Where is a likable main hero? Where is everything that we loved in the original? Are they just cleverly hiding all this from us? mO_Om
    It may have a decent story, the fight system could be good (although I doubt it from what I have seen so far), the technical side might be nice (again, the video under this article makes me doubt that, but others were solid) but overall, I'm missing the SOUL that the original had. At least the first, third and even the fourth game.
    And please, stop with those "you haven't played that" arguments. Of course we haven't. We are just eveluating from the stuff they showed us. What else can we do at this point?

  • chessboxer #14 5 months ago

    For me, Bayonetta (like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 1 & 2) had good gameplay but a rubbish story. If Ninja Theory can include decent gameplay with an interesting story without the need to fight the same end of level bosses 3 times (I'm looking at you DMC4) then I will be very interested in adding this to my collection.

  • Mark1412 #15 5 months ago

    I wouldn't want to compare my game to Bayonetta, personally.
    Edited by Mark1412 at 05/01/12 @ 13:38

  • King_Edward #16 5 months ago

    NT suck, Capcom suck. Game will suck.

  • Bander #17 5 months ago

    So, this will be a bit like Bayonetta but without the humour and self-awareness then?

    What is 'gameplay outside of combat' in this case? With Ninja Theory I can't help thinking that this is the phrase they use when referring to cutscenes.

  • Kami #18 5 months ago

    Like others, I echo the love for Bayonetta. A game that had style AND substance, a game that was a delightfully retro pastiche and yet technically accomplished from the ground up, with an incredible amount of depth and an enviably sophisticated control system. It just worked.

    Devil May Cry has always for me been a little cheesy - and this is no bad thing, part of the appeal is the cheesy nature of it. But I don't think it was ever as technically accomplished as what Platinum Games did. Devil May Cry may have birthed that kind of brand of stylish brawl-em-up, but Bayonetta perfected it.

    From what I've seen and read of DmC - the reboot nobody asked for - it just takes itself a tad too seriously. And that isn't just unfitting of the franchise, but a sub-genre that delights and revels in its over-the-top style and violence. Being technically accomplished - which seems the main focus of DmC - is only half the battle, it has to charm and delight in the visuals, the style, the combat, the animations and the story - and a sense of humour never goes out of fashion.

    And the unpopular stylings of the new-look Dante may yet prove that even if this game is technically perfect, it will struggle to find acceptance among those who enjoyed the past games, and this in turn may put off those newer to the franchise.

    In tl;dr - Messing with what you already have can work, but there are vastly more and notable examples of this approach failing.

    Let's hope this is another exception.

  • edwin_jones1234 #19 5 months ago

    I would have bought the next DMC, but I really don't like the new Dante at all. I can't play a game where I dislike the whole idea of the plot.

    Bayonetta got a lot of flak for being sexist but the game itself was fun, as was the plot. How many other games let you kill god? Count me in.

  • Kami #20 5 months ago

    @edwin_jones1234; I think it's the look of new Dante that turns me off personally. He doesn't have nearly the same naive charm and style that old Dante did.

    The other thing that puts me off is this "You always want to go out there and beat your competitor." What is this, Highlander? Seriously, Bayonetta is currently your ONLY rival in the sub-genre Capcom. Darksiders 2 is going more adventure-y, and Dantes Inferno 2 seems to be somewhere in development hell. Mind you, that's an oddly fitting place for it.

    DmC doesn't have to beat Bayonetta - just be as good, or put up a good enough fight to make the entrance fee worth it. By comparing, you are asking to be judged on the examples set by your rival.

    And that's a battle I suspect DmC may lose.

    edit; I do typos. Me go bash head on wall now.
    Edited by Kami at 05/01/12 @ 15:28

  • Silent-Hal #21 5 months ago

    I read a report about these guys getting death threats over this game. Sometimes hardcore fans sicken me. Well, the mentally deranged ones anway.
    Edited by Silent-Hal at 05/01/12 @ 16:33

  • Machiavellian #22 5 months ago

    If you ask me, NT ability to script a very decent story and have it well voiced and acted within a game is a big plus for me. Combine that with Sega combat gameplay within the DMC universe sounds like a one two punch that can produce a high quality beat up that I crave.

    I do not need this DMC to be better than Bayonetta, I need it to be a very good beat up within the genre that I enjoy the most. I let the fanboys quibble about what game is better while I just enjoy the experience.

    One of my problems with NT was that their combat gameplay. It was just not deep enough to satisfy someone who enjoys the complexity of the genre. The story telling I felt is right up there with the best developers. If Sega can up the ante for NT on the combat then I believe that this DMC has the ability to really shine. So far I have not seen anything that suggest the game is on the wrong path so I am fine with reserving my judgement until the game release.

  • Machiavellian #23 5 months ago

    @edwin_jones1234; I think it's the look of new Dante that turns me off personally. He doesn't have nearly the same naive charm and style that old Dante did.

    The problem is that you really do not know how charming or how charismatic the character is because you have not played the game and the short little media videos are not enough to go by. This is what kills me about people who are quick to make judgements on very little pieces of information.

    One thing I have never had a problem with NT ability is to develop a character. They have shone they can consistently do this with the games they have made. Right now I am interested in seeing how they develop this young version of Dante. Maybe go from the punk kid with a sword to the more mature version we know. If anything I like to seem something change than the static character I have played for the last 3 games.

  • Bander #24 5 months ago

    @Kami Indeed. Despite what I said above, this story does give me a lot hope for DmC as Ninja Theory have a healthy awareness of Bayonetta and why its gameplay is awesome. But Bayo was late 2009/early 2010, and it's now 2012 with no Bayonetta 2 planned as far as anyone is aware. Ninja Gaiden 3, Metal Gear Rising and Devil's Third may be valid competitors though.

    My only worry is that Ninja Theory do seem to concentrate far too much on story and facial animation, whereas Platinum stuck two fingers up at cutscene animation, claim that there isn't the time and money for it, yet still happily consider their games to be 100% complete (the absence of DLC and sequels backs this up). Whether by accident or design, it worked for Bayonetta too. Its mannequin cutscenes managed to be dynamic without ever falling into the uncanny valley, and entertaining without demanding your attention enough to make them unskippable. Alas people still moaned because they weren't a technical showcase or some masterpiece of writing and 'haters gonna hate'.

    Stories are best told with hand-puppets though. I am sad that so few developers realise this basic fact.

  • evnewell #25 5 months ago

    capcom really should have got Platinum to develop DMC.

  • Phishfood #26 5 months ago

    It just wouldn't be DMC if there wasn't some cheezy dialouge and the overall feel that the game doesn't take itself too seriously.

  • Kostas #27 5 months ago

    If we already started reading "excuses" and comparisons of how one is different from the other expect that things will go as originaly feared for the new DMC. Bayonetta is just the proper DMC 5 under a new and different mask because Platinum games does not own the DMC rights. In heart and spirit however it is the proper follow up which was demonstrated by its impecable combat system and over the top action -with skill and substance-.

    NT just can not achieve even a moderate combat system for some other franchise let alone something that bears the DMC name. I would want more than almost anyone to be proven wrong and a liar but i am fairly certain i will not and that is something i do not like.

  • Code_R #28 5 months ago

    Bayonetta had the kind of gameplay only Hideki Kamiya and the Platinum games staff are going to be able to reproduce. NT have not previously shown they are able to do anything similar.

  • wingZero21 #29 5 months ago

    lol more bullshit from Ninja Theory and their benevolent masters Capcom...

    WE AINT BUYIN IT.....

    wingZero

  • SpaceMonkey77 #30 5 months ago

    While I don't mind the retro look Dante, overall,, I feel that Capcom are clutching at straws, by doing a fifth DmC, when they could have used that money on say rebooting Onimusha series or something else. None of us asked for this game. I purchased DmC4 and while it was fun for a while, its a tired template, trying to ride the coat tails of its PS2 debut, and frankly, it doesn't fly with me. I'm sorry, but while Dante was cool back in the day, he's lost his cool edge as the years have passed by. The save system was poor and check pointing bad and unnecessary too. They should have just done a fresh take altogether, new game name, characters, settings and all, maybe draw some influences from the fun awesomeness that is God Hand etc.

    Bayonetta perfected this type of action game. While its story was a bit predictable and cheesy, its gameplay, sense of humour, and wink eye nods to Sega's past games were outstanding moves of genius. Platinum remembered what fun is and served it in spades, and they are a feather in the japanese games industry, as to why more breakaway/indie devs are needed out there, than devs that tow the corporate commitee line of average/mediocre creativity.

    Bayonetta is to action games, what Saint Row series is to sand box games. These games remember that while serious, hard and deep can be fun, doing the opposite can be more rewarding (guess its all about balance, really). Another similar case to point is Battlefield Bad Company/Bad Company 2. See how their single player campaigns were fun, partly because of the awesome foursome of characters you were part of, that were fun to be with and just listen too, for shits and giggles? And what did EA do? They made the big mistake of not including them in BF3, and instead gone the boring yet serious route, with characters I can't even remember. BF3 has awesome gameplay, but its campaign was good but forgetable.

    I'm sure NJ are talented chaps, but this is a game I'll pick up in the sales. Bayonetta has the crown of this genre, one that Bayonetta 2 will surely end up wearing.

  • RelaxedMikki #31 5 months ago

    The fluidity of the control in Bayonetta is superb. To better it would be outstanding. And, by 'outstanding' I think I mean 'unlikely'. Good luck to them though, if they can pull it off I for one will buy their game!

  • Slipstream #32 5 months ago

    @Rogueywon This pretty much. What I don't expect from DmC is another Bayonetta, that game is one of a kind.

    I understand there will be similarities in the combat but again, as this is a reboot I expect the combat to have its roots redone too, although it's looking very similar to the previous DMC games, I wouldn't mind playing with it myself to see how NT have adapted to this system themselves and discover what traits they've bought to the experience.

    Plot-wise I've no doubt Ninja Theory have something special planned, if HS and Enslaved are antying to go by then this area is truly their forte. Again I'm not expecting the complete and utter uber fun madness that was Bagonetta.

    I am however hoping that the burden of being given a combat intensive game like DMC has allowed them to sharpen their gameplay skills, they know they're in the firing line with this one, Capcom and the fans want them to deliver on this big time.