Gabe Newell: Apple will oust consoles

By Robert Purchese Published 12 October, 2011

With new living-room hardware.

Valve leader Gabe Newell "suspects" that Apple will render traditional consoles obsolete with a new piece of hardware.

"I suspect Apple will launch a living-room product that redefines people's expectations really strongly and the notion of a separate console platform will disappear," Newell prophesied, during a tech conference reported by The Seattle Times.

What that new hardware will be, Newell admitted he had no knowledge of.

He also has reservations. Newell believes closed platforms are the "wrong philosophical approach", but said people will emulate them because of the success of Apple and Xbox Live.

"I'm worried that the things that traditionally have been the source of a lot of innovation are going," he shared. "There's going to be an attempt to close those off so somebody will say, 'I'm tired of competing with Google, I'm tired of competing with Facebook, I'll apply a console model and exclude the competitors I don't like from my world.'"

Newell considers Apple to be "very closed", and justified this with the example of a book business not being able to exist in "an Apple world" because they "they want 30 per cent" and "don't care" about the teensy life-line margin the business operates on.

Newell promised that if Valve made a hardware platform, it would be open to competing distribution services because that is important to the future of the entertainment industry, according to The Seattle Times' paraphrasing.

Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes, although consoles - PS3, 360, Wii/Wii U - are busy adding extra-curricular media functionality to their game-playing machines.

Apple single-handedly created a tablet market and has, as Newell said, "redefined" what people want from a smartphone - not to mention Apple's impact on desktop computers, laptops and portable music players.

Should Apple turn such inventive and persuasive clout on the living-room, then Newell's prophesy may not be so far fetched after all.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (119) Latest comment 7 months ago

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  • MarketZero #1 8 months ago

    Was this quote taken at a taxi rank at 3am on a weekend by any chance?
    Edited by MarketZero at 12/10/11 @ 10:07

  • captain_Carl #2 8 months ago

    No thanks!

  • spiritsnake #3 8 months ago

    ill stick with my xboxes and playstations for gaming thank you very much.

  • phAge #4 8 months ago

    The new iGame - it's white, expensive as fuck - and has an Apple (TM) on it!

    /prints money

  • George-Roper #5 8 months ago

    Never happen.

    Gamers (proper gamers) and Appleites are different ends of the spectrum.

  • RustyBullet #6 8 months ago

    fuk right off

  • funkateer #7 8 months ago

    God no.
    But a Valve console with an open nature? Yes, please!

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #8 8 months ago

    I'm not sure that Apple TV (souped up and with apps, eventually) isn't all they've got.

    iPhone, and perhaps to a greater extent iPad worked because the existing products in the category were shite (Symbian, Windows Mobile 5/6, UMPCs).

    There are a lot of competing set-top entertainment boxes - Xbox 360, PS3, Sky+HD, Tivo, smartTV tech built into TVs. There's Wndows Media Center and even free solutions like XBMC. A good few of these certainly don't suck, and Apple will have much greater difficulty competing.

    Edit: Actually, I think AirPlay is their living room strategy -they want it to be the new equivalent to the ubiquity of the iPod dock. Their living room console will be 2013's iPad 4 that matches Wii U's processing performance (2012's will almost certainly be of the same spec as PSVita, but with 1GB ram), and beams its video to your Airplay-compatible TV.
    Edited by MENTAL1ST at 12/10/11 @ 10:24

  • el_pollo_diablo #9 8 months ago

    I don't love or hate Apple any more or less than I love or hate any other hardware manufacturer, so if they want to add a bit of competition and disruption to the market, awesome.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #10 8 months ago

    Gamers (proper gamers) and Appleites are different ends of the spectrum.

    Really? Cos I've got Zelda and Saints Row 3 preordered, and I'm off to queue for a new iPhone on Friday.

    Edit: what, are you all jealous or something?
    Edited by MENTAL1ST at 12/10/11 @ 10:35

  • Waffleaber #11 8 months ago

    iGame with Half Life 3 at launch confirmed!

    I can see Apple going after the traditional Wii market in theory but not them paying Apple prices. On the other hand Apple could just buy any of the major publishers and create a business with a vast catalogue of exclusives overnight. Scary thought.

  • Zapatero #12 8 months ago

    Isn's the iPad a living room product anyway? It's the place I get the most from mine*

    Apple still has some work to do in keeping the Android hordes at bay. I suspect a nano-ipad before anything big and new; something to fight back against Kindle's Fire.

    (*mine being an Android tab)
    Edited by Zapatero at 12/10/11 @ 10:18

  • Daddy-Doom-Bar #13 8 months ago

    Well, it'll be twice the price it should be, not do a lot that other products can't, in 3 months it'll be out of date and they'll release an igame 2, then in 3 months - igame 3, then in another 3 months - igame 4s. And they'll charge whatever they like and people will pay because Apple will tell them it will do all that they ever need it to do. For 3 months, anyway.

    No thanks. I'm no sheep.

    Having said that, competition is always good. Wouldn't like M$ and Fony to get the wrong idea and think they've got the market back again.
    Edited by Daddy-Doom-Bar at 12/10/11 @ 10:35

  • lockload #14 8 months ago

    "Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes"

    Wheres the proof for this?

  • RodHull #15 8 months ago

    Wouldn't surprise me. Afterall there's plenty of scope for the usual copying of other companies' achievements and innovations that Apple have been doing for aeons. It's what Steve would have wanted!

  • MattEdWithCheese #16 8 months ago

    If anyone could, it would be apple. Best Case Scenario: Apple buy Nintendo, design the console, the OS & GUI, the controllers and get nintendo to keep creating the best games evar!

    If that happened, then he would definitely be right!

  • gman7714 #17 8 months ago

    At the prices Apple charge for their hardware I don't think so.

    How many people here had a Neo Geo/AES?

  • hiddenranbir #18 8 months ago

    "and I'm off to queue for a new iPhone on Friday."

    Is your old one not working any-more?

  • mattwakeman #19 8 months ago

    "Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes"

    ?? Citation needed I think on this point I feel. At some point somebody will point at Apple and talk about the Emperor's new clothes in terms of how restrictive they are. Take away ipods/iphones and then see how much of any market, in terms of volume, that Apple has. It is one thing to set your sights on the high-end pc market but when want to take on the consoles AND retain an iron-grip on content that is something all together different.

  • geeza2020 #20 8 months ago

    This whole article just seems like a fucking Apple ad with a few Newell quotes in to make it seem newsworthy. But personally, if Apple brought out a console, I would rather stick rusty nails into my japs eye than buy it.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #21 8 months ago

    Is your old one not working any-more?

    It's almost two and a half years old, that's about as long as I've ever had a phone. O2 have been bugging me to upgrade for months.

  • Deckard1 #22 8 months ago

    Apple must be stopped!!!

  • bad09 #23 8 months ago

    I kinda get his point I do think the console as we know it, dedicated seperate hardware for different games, will go away eventually. Be it PC, Apples closed platforms (hope not!), something new but standard tech like a games "DVD player" or even something like onlive (god no!), well see some kind of standard gaming device.

    Things are changing and people are less inclined to go out and buy 3 or 4 consoles and handhelds to play the games they want.

  • CaptainKid #24 8 months ago

    "I suspect Apple will launch a living-room product that redefines people's expectations really strongly and the notion of a separate console platform will disappear"

    I don't understand this.
    Isn't that apple product the "separate console" then?

  • cnlfailure #25 8 months ago

    Apple are well placed for such a move, but frankly when it comes down to it nobody knows what the gaming public will do until they do it. In the era of the Megadrive, nobody could have predicted that Sony's first foray into the games hardware market would make them the industry lead for 2 generations, or that Sega would be put out of the hardware game as a result, or that Son'y dominance would be shaken when Microsoft arrived on the scene.

    All the "I'll never buy one" protestations in this thread are meaningless - as we'll all buy one if it does what we want it to, when the competition fails to deliver. A more productive line of comment might be to debate what such a device might do, and what that's make it better than what we have now.

  • Cobalt_Jackal #26 8 months ago

    Maybe Gabe should focus on ousting his wasteline first, before he makes such stupid, ridiculous statements like this.

  • miiiguel #27 8 months ago

    These "open world" acolytes should start thinking why ppl like closed, controlled environments. Anarchy is cool, on concept, but the real shit is, a crowd is an entity which has litle sense of ethics. A phenomenal example is XBLIG and is "open nature", the shit about it is most games are copies of one another, and plain trash - thousands of them..., then you don't have someone who is paid to look for bugs, to promote the best games etc (and why should MS - or any company, the bloody thing is supposed to be comunal, no ?!), and the punch line is when developers start to moan about how XBLIG sucks because it has all the bad stuff associated with the populace, and XBLA is too controlled by the suits who spend their time, money and effort on that.
    Edited by miiiguel at 12/10/11 @ 10:42

  • MisterM #28 8 months ago

    YASSSSSSSSSSSS! Pippin to rerelease in 2013? SWEET.

  • Cjail #29 8 months ago

    Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.
    -Dr. Ian Malcolm
    Edited by Cjail at 12/10/11 @ 10:43

  • ZizouFC #30 8 months ago

    Steve Jobs died!

  • RevanEleven #31 8 months ago

    Lets hope not.

  • RevanEleven #32 8 months ago

    Lets hope not.

  • -cerberus- #33 8 months ago

    Pippin 2!

  • Daddy-Doom-Bar #34 8 months ago

    @cnlfailure - You're wrong about 'we'll all buy one if it does what we want it to.' I won't, because I have the mental capacity to research what is available and realize that Apple don't do anything others can't do and charge an average of £40 more than they should for the pleasure. I will not buy any Apple product - ever. Not because I'm anyone's fanboy, but because I don't like their products. Overpriced, closed consumerism at it's worst.

  • marmaduke #35 8 months ago

    Please Gabe, make a console

  • gamerBOB #36 8 months ago

    It's hard to tell if Valve would actually release their own home console but I could see how it could work. With the continuing increase in mobile tech (we shouldn't be far off from seeing the first quad-core smart phone/tablet) they could release a device similar in size to apple tv, include a hard drive and would utilize the steam platform.

    Not sure how they would get the existing games to work on the console, maybe through emulation or some minor code alteration, similar to how the games are modified for online.

  • oupe #37 8 months ago

    /pre-orders Angry Birds 3D

    edit: It could happen of course, why not include (real) games in iTunes and upgrade the Apple TV to a console under the hood. The real problem would be MS, Sony, Nintendo and Onlive to a lesser degree and come to think of it: Apple itself. I'm no expert but the market looks saturated to me. Apple have done wonders for the tablet, mp3 and smartphone market but I wonder how they can create a revolution in the console market.

    Anyhoo MS and Sony, take note and simplify both of your dashboards before Apple comes with an interface that actually works. You know, with one icon that says "Play game" and another that says "Download game"
    Edited by oupe at 12/10/11 @ 10:58

  • Subdominator #38 8 months ago

    "On the other hand Apple could just buy any of the major publishers and create a business with a vast catalogue of exclusives overnight. Scary thought."

    Funny thing, ten years ago people said the same thing about Microsoft and it never happened. Wealthy companies get milked. That's why they rarely buy something they can do themselfs much cheaper. I don't see Apple entering the gaming market: Apple is all about high prices and making money. The console business is so tight that it's hard to make money. Microsoft is still at a loss of 3 billion since 2000, despite the 360 selling well. But you have to make people want your hardware by selling it at a loss, I can't see Apple doing that. And seriously: We don't need another player. We have three major players, we have Onlive which might be a force in the future (but I guess it will be bought by either Sony or Microsoft as soon as they see video streaming of games as a working alternative to selling hardware).

  • stoopidgreg #39 8 months ago

    What was that about Apple taking 30%? Last I checked Steam games are about 30% more expensive than you can buy the physical copy for. I can see Apple taking a stab at gaming though, they definitely have the cash and the brand, just depends if they can do something different to persuade the harder core xbox and PS3 players as well as the firmly established Nintendo casual crowd.

  • kitsuneyo #40 8 months ago

    I don't like iTunes, so I can't imagine liking their game store either.

  • arcam #41 8 months ago

    Many people missing the point here.

    He's not saying Apple will release a console that beats out the other consoles in the market. he's saying Apple will release a living room 'product' that will make consoles obsolete.

    I think he's right - I have a media PC, and it is (sorry) just light years ahead of the consoles in terms of what it can do and how much fun it gives to the 'living room experience'. Non-tech-minded friends often comment on how cool it is, but you do need to know a bit about computers or do a bit of research to get it all up and running.

    If Apple can give people something similar that 'just works' in that way that Apple fans are so fond of, it could easily be a massive, massive success. Next to that, the whole concept of games consoles might suddenly find itself looking rather dated.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #42 8 months ago

    Please Gabe, make a console

    To be honest, I think what would be more likely is that valve would launch their own Linux distribution, after they port Steam and the Source engine fully to Linux (which must surely be underway, especially now they've done OSX). Initially, it'd be aimed at people who want to run dedicated servers, I expect.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #43 8 months ago

    "Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies"

    Don't exaggerate.

  • ballshock #44 8 months ago

    No chance mate. Lol
    I think all these articles are stupid.

  • oupe #45 8 months ago

    These "open world" acolytes should start thinking why ppl like closed, controlled environments. Anarchy is cool, on concept, but the real shit is, a crowd is an entity which has litle sense of ethics

    Ah yes. Who doesn't remember the failiure of Linux , Android, Apache, JBoss, Tomcat, MySQL, Java, XBMC, XVID, x264 et al.
    Edited by oupe at 12/10/11 @ 11:08

  • geeza2020 #46 8 months ago

    arcam - what the fuck is a "living room experience"? Sounds like corporate marketing bullshit to me.

  • TheNonk #47 8 months ago

    So says that man who said he'd never develop for PS3

  • miiiguel #48 8 months ago

    Ah yes. Who doesn't remember the failiure of Linux , Android, Apache, JBoss, Tomcat, MySQL, Java, XBMC, XVID, x264 et al.

    I was talking about online marketplaces, but some of those examples are funny since their most sucessfull implementations were when they were used on "closed" products.

  • TelexStar #49 8 months ago

    @arc am "Many people missing the point here.

    He's not saying Apple will release a console that beats out the other consoles in the market. he's saying Apple will release a living room 'product' that will make consoles obsolete.

    I think he's right - I have a media PC, and it is (sorry) just light years ahead of the consoles in terms of what it can do and how much fun it gives to the 'living room experience'. Non-tech-minded friends often comment on how cool it is, but you do need to know a bit about computers or do a bit of research to get it all up and running.

    If Apple can give people something similar that 'just works' in that way that Apple fans are so fond of, it could easily be a massive, massive success. Next to that, the whole concept of games consoles might suddenly find itself looking rather dated.    "

    What the hell are you talking about?

    Having a media PC setup for streaming videos, music, photos, porn, whatever is very different to sitting down on an evening after my son has gone to bed and shooting the crap out of stuff. So again I ask you, what the hell are you talking about?

    Should Apple create an all singing and dancing 'living room experience' product, I still don't see how that makes games consoles obsolete? Perhaps it will re-focus consoles into doing what they do best - playing games, rather than trying to shoehorn media streaming functionality. This wouldn't be a bad thing in my book.

  • AnotherIdiot #50 8 months ago

    It would be interesting to welcome the new breed of Apple fanboys to the gaming industry. I'm sure they would make a great contribution to gaming threads all across the land.

  • rockavitch #51 8 months ago

    Apple TV with an iPhone/iPad dock, each TV comes with a wireless controller, upscales any game you all ready own, that's my bet, would sell well too no doubt.

    I can do without, as good as their products are I have a Blackberry, a laptop and a PS3 so I'm covered in any area I would need them.

  • urban #52 8 months ago

    No thanks, I don't like Apple products. I bought the first iPhone and it quickly got told it wasn't as good as the next one or the next one and I didn't want to spend anymore money so I didn't.

  • space_ace #53 8 months ago

    iBox

  • TheApologist #54 8 months ago

    A lot of comments here seem to me to miss the point. He isn't advocating for Apple. Quite the opposite. He's saying they are a closed platform, and them taking over (or rather 'redefining') the home console / media centre markets would therefore probably be bad for innovation. However, that doesn't mean it won't happen.

    I for one, think he has a point. There is a latent market for easy TV, movie, music and videogame playing (probably streaming) - that's why in my house I currently have lots of this kind of functionalty distributed across, at last count, four different boxes sitting under my TV.

  • Jonny5Alive7 #55 8 months ago

    You could see Apple doing a Wii style console for the casuals, but I don't think the Xbox\PS fans would take to it.

  • arcam #56 8 months ago

    what the fuck is a "living room experience"? Sounds like corporate marketing bullshit to me

    I know, I put it in quotes because I know it sounds wanky. But I'm trying not to just say it's a better games machine, or a better video player - it's much more than that, which was my main point really.

    It won't be a new console, or an awesome Blu-ray player that takjes over the living room - it'll be a product that brings together all these living room activities and turns it into a unified experience (sorry) that is comprehensive, pleasurable and easy to use. Consoles fail at comprehensiveness, PCs fail at being easy to use. There's still room for someone to clean up here, and Apple seems like the obvious contender.

    Having a media PC setup for streaming videos, music, photos, porn, whatever is very different to sitting down on an evening after my son has gone to bed and shooting the crap out of stuff. So again I ask you, what the hell are you talking about?

    Why is it that different? It's home entertainment, played out on a big screen, from a machine with an OS and CPUs and a graphics chip. Really it makes no sense to have lots of different machines doing this, all with different user interfaces to learn, when you could get a much better experience with a more powerful machine that does everything with elegant easy-to-use software that people are familiar with.
    Edited by arcam at 12/10/11 @ 11:42

  • MaxFN #57 8 months ago

    All of you remember Apple Pippin? The overpriced console with 600$ price tag? Normal price for any overpriced Apple hardware for Applefags, but gamers were smarter then that:

    Units sold 42,000

    As for Gabe, I love Steam and recommend Gabe Newell to immediately stop taking this heavy hallucinogenic drugs he just start to take.

    As for tablet's - they were around since 2003 i think, and my old smartphone from 2004 can do much more things then new Iphone can, and i don't even need to jailbrake it! they "redefined" what people want from a smartphone, sure!

  • Markusdragon #58 8 months ago

    The biggest problem Apple have, in my view, is that their products price anyone who isn't a serious technologist, a yuppie, or really unnecessarily frugal out of the market. Remember how the 3DS's release price seemed perfectly fine until the Vita matched it? That's the type of market that Apple would have to buy into, and it's just not the market that Apple is comfortable in.

  • Psi #59 8 months ago

    I'd like to be able to play games in any room in the house without having to unplug everything. and having one box rather than multiple plugged into the mains and switching between them would also be nice.

  • Grayvern #60 8 months ago

    Considering some of the corkers Gabe's come out with in the past this seems to be far from the biggest.

    Also he doesn't seem to understand that the reason Ibooks never took off wasn't because they demanded a 30% cut, probably smaller than waterstones or any bookseller but because amazon already has that market and even though the kindle platform is ostensibly closed amazon are bullish enough to keep it on all their rivals platforms, their market share making them a value add even in the face of the fire.

    Added to this mac mini or apple tv aren't the premier products in their markets they share them.

    Streaming games are another matter but I don't see apple shareholders taking that risk.

    You have to remember that apples success with games wasn't necessarily deliberate and that their continued success comes simply from past success's making the app market ubiquitous.
    Edited by Grayvern at 09/11/11 @ 21:56

  • youhavenomail #61 8 months ago

    Well, when you see the prices of new games (and, dare I say it, some of the most innovative) on iOS compared to what Nintendo charge for old Game Boy downloads, of course Apple is going to smash the console market to buggery if and when it chooses to do so. Bring it.

  • SheffAl #62 8 months ago

    I don't think so.

  • Gearskin #63 8 months ago

    I've argued it for a long time. The iDevices don't sell AS gaming platforms. They sell as platforms that just happen to play games.

    There's this weird idea floating around that eveyone who owns an iPhone is a gamer. It's daft. My sister owns an iPhone but she wouldn't purchase an Xbox or DS. People who buy games for their phones in the millions (Angry Birds) do so because they are easy and they are cheap. Very cheap.

    If Apple put out the Apply Box, these people would not buy it. Gamers might. But the phone sheep wouldn't.

  • ForozM #64 8 months ago

    How can he say such things when Steve Jobs is dead?

  • arcam #65 8 months ago

    If Apple put out the Apply Box, these people would not buy it. Gamers might. But the phone sheep wouldn't.

    This is not how it would go down. Apple would release a home entertainment box that is also compatible with games, and people would start playing these games and say to each other: "you, know some of these games aren't bad". Before you know it, people put off their next console purchase because Apple's computer has got them covered for now, and slowly but surely people find they no longer have much of a need for a dedicated console.

  • geeza2020 #66 8 months ago

    @arcam - I see what you mean, a lot of people would definitely take to having one box under their TV that covers everything, I just dont think Apple will be able to do it. They are great at phones and Mac's/pads, I'm not sure how they would handle a dedicated gaming platform though. Not enough easy money for them. They cant just stick an apple logo on tech that already exists and charge 20-30% more than their competitors, just because its Apple. Sony seemed to try that tactic for a while with the PS3, and failed miserably, and that was with all the good will they had built up with gamers with PS1 and PS2. Gamers are (generally) too tech savvy to fall for such nonsense.

    EDIT: Looks like I have no idea what you're talking about then
    /shrugs
    Edited by geeza2020 at 12/10/11 @ 12:44

  • arcam #67 8 months ago

    @geeza2020

    Huh? My whole point is that Apple wouldn't release a dedicated games platform :/

    I agree that would be a total fail for Apple, and they are completely the wrong company to do that.

    Like the iPhone, I'm talking about a device that isn't aimed at or advertised to gamers, but just scoops them up along with everyone else on their way to world domination.
    Edited by arcam at 12/10/11 @ 12:04

  • supanova #68 8 months ago

    with the release of iOS 5 today, introducing more features with airplay, you'll be able to play your games on the big telly in hd. you just ned apple tv and an iPad 2 or iPhone 4s... angry birds on the big tv.....family fun...

  • darkmorgado #69 8 months ago

    Apple single-handedly created a tablet market

    You mean they took the market mainstream. Tablets were around for many, many years before the ipad.

  • GamesConnoisseur #70 8 months ago

    I m proper hardcore gamer and owns iPad and iPhone.

    They need not to exist on different spectrum, if you actually believe so then it's your perspective and not mine.

    Does that mean cos I owns Apple product then I m no longer a sane human being? Ha ah!

    However I do not wish to see dedicated gaming platform disappear, but we don't know very well what form it ll be in 30 or so years, looking at PC platform. 15 years ago when it's new, things looked so exciting, 3D video cards promises loads, lots of ideas abound.

    Now PC is playing second fiddle to consoles but exists still and very much alive, so will consoles eventually rank second to smartphones/tablets once they have efficient power and means of control?

    I ve no idea but I know something, 30 years time I ll still be playing games whatever form it's come on! Just hope plenty of options for retro gaming!

  • Gastrian #71 8 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012

  • ShiroBen #72 8 months ago

    Does Not Happen.

  • Caimbeul #73 8 months ago

    Call me old fashioned but i wouldnt want or buy one.

    "Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes" - Like f*ck do they.

  • munki83 #74 8 months ago

    Oh yay lets see we would have iConsole 1 followed a year later by iConsole2 and so on.

  • bf #75 8 months ago

    If they built a system with proper graphics hardware for once and made its store open then hm wait nah, it wont happen.

  • shadow651 #76 8 months ago

    @Gastrian
    Your mistaking what he is referring to,
    He is talking about the 30% for in-app sales(directed at kindle app). Which means amazon have to pay apple 30% for sales not even hosted by apple, he is not talking about percentage of the actual app sale(which valve charge for games on steam but considering the size difference between a pc game vs app you see why they charge for hosting).
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-2008292... there's the story for you

    Next you reference a closed environment, steam isn't an OS, IOS is (and based on free software at that). The effect of a closed software is meaningless outside of itself since it has no effect on any other software. A closed OS affects every software on it since it has to conform to rules set by the maker(apple)

  • kangarootoo #77 8 months ago

    Another thread full of people confusing "I don't like the sound of that" with "I don't believe this is true".

  • StooMonster #78 8 months ago

    MaxFN: All of you remember Apple Pippin? The overpriced console with 600$ price tag?

    Yes, it was made by non-Jobs Apple and was actually called the Apple Bandai Pippin.

    Rather than a "console" it was marketed more like a Phillips CD-i thing and was supposed to be a cheap computer / multi-media player / internet browser device that plugged into a regular SD CRT and an inkjet printer.

    Also, if you wanted a "console" there Bandai Pippin FAQ told you to do so, winning marketing there!

    "If all a family wants is the least expensive video game player and does not want to be able to use their purchase for other uses they will probably be better off buying the upcoming new platforms being introduced by the video game giants Nintendo and Sega. Other new platforms such as Atari Jaguar, Sony Playstation and 3DO are all video game players and cannot be useful for much else. It remains to be seen how these platforms will hold up against the two mainstay players, Nintendo and Sega.

    Apple believes that families are looking for more than video game players today. Certainly they want to be able to play their favorite games, but they also want to communicate, learn, play interactive music, access information and much more."     -- [link url=http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/faq.html
    ]http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/faq...[/link]

    I saw one, once, in Selfridges I think. The controller was awful, but had a trackball rather than an analogue stick -- which was the only interesting thing about it. As a console it didn't compete, as a cheap computer it was poor. A horrible product.

  • FireMonkey #79 8 months ago

    @mattwakeman - ""Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes"

    ?? Citation needed I think on this point I feel"

    I agree. I don't know anyone with one.
    I suppose 'many' is very subjective though. To a child 30 people would be many.

  • Mr_Brown #80 8 months ago

    I don't care how much the industry and gamIng media want it. Apple will never replace current gaming consoles. I genuinely hate games on Apple Products and phones. If apple do replace consoles then I will no longer buy them and just become a retro gamer. I seriously cannot stand apples rip off business model, which is even worse then nintendo.

  • robbiejc85 #81 8 months ago

    @George-Roper
    "Gamers (proper gamers) and Appleites are different ends of the spectrum."
    Erm probably a slightly sweeping statement given the number of gamers I know that own Macs, play on Steam, own an iPhone, played Infinty Blade etc.

    I'm convinced Gabe Newel lwill be right though - in fact he amight be already. One of the things least blogged about from the recent iPhone4S event was the mirroring of iPhone/iPad through an Apple TV on your HD TV.

    Right now, mirroring a mobile-designed game on your TV is pretty pointless, but what if developers start to leverage the ever-increasing power of iOS devices (the iPhone for example now matches the power of current gen consoles in many ways and iPad 3 will likely beat them) to make 'full' console-like games (albeit, touch controlled)?

    Imagine how outdated Wii U's 8-year old touch screen technology will look if Apple decided to bundle an Apple TV 'micro console' as standard with its macs or iPads?

    Infact, I'm betting that it will be Apple, not Onlive that will bring Cloud Gaming to the mainstream, and it will be through the app store with small games like Angry Birds, and grow into full releases.

    So how about us 'proper' gamers? Sony and MS will lose some ground I feel but the real struggler will be Nintendo - like Apple devices, its Wii success has been based on accessibility and WOM - i.e. everyone else has one, so should I."

  • UncleLou #82 8 months ago

    I seriously cannot stand apples rip off business model, which is even worse then nintendo.

    Not sure how anyone who has a Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo console can speak of "Apple rip off" business model with a straight face.

    Never happen.

    Gamers (proper gamers) and Appleites are different ends of the spectrum.

    Strange. The people I know who buy games on their iPhones are mostly the same people who also have PS3s, Xboxes or gaming PCs. Including me.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #83 8 months ago

    As soon as Apple release the, already announced, App's for Apple TV product they will be half way there without even trying.

    Once they add Game Center support and a new, more powerful iteration of the hardware, they will be 100% there.

    Apple TV is £99.

  • StooMonster #84 8 months ago

    Apple TV 3.0 with 1080p output already spotted in iOS SDKs -- willing to bet that's going to be $99 too.

    Also, what did they recently say about Game Center customers? 75-million of them? That's a lot of people in anyone's user-base.

  • RedPanda #85 8 months ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • RexRunti #86 8 months ago

    Apple already have a living room product called "Apple TV", it costs £100 and is a dedicated video streamer which isn't quite as good as the xbox for video streaming, doesn't play games, doesn't play DVDs and the comparisons will be even less favourable come the next Xbox update. (Feel free to substitute Xbox for PS3 if the mood takes you.)

    The problem all platforms have trying to unify the living room experience have is in the actual unifying. Sure MS can link the xbox with Kinect, Skype, IM, PCs, Windows Phones, and Windows tablets and Sony can link the PS3 internal Blu-Ray, PSPs, Vitas, Sony Android phones and Sony Android tablets (and Apple could theoretically link iPhones, iPads and Macs) and all can provide streaming services. What they can't do is link it to your satilite or cable box, your TIVO box, your external BluRay player, your FreeView Box and your TV. We need some sort of system that allows your XBox (or whatever) to change channel (and even view the TV guide) on your Sky box if we ever have a chance at the fully integrated system everyone wants.

    PS
    When Apple entered the mp3 player market the mp3 players that existed were popular with (and aimed at) a small subset of ultra geek consumers.
    When Apple entered the smartphone market the smartphones that existed were popular with (and aimed at) business users and not consumers
    When Apple entered the tablet market the tablets that existed were popular with (and aimed at) business users and not consumers
    If apple were to enter the console/set-top box market the consoles that exist already have a very large consumer userbase

  • wtc0771 #87 8 months ago

    "Many people already house a Mac mini underneath or alongside their tellies for media/browsing purposes"

    Like many people I keep my Mac mini alongside my many gold ingots that I use as a TV stand, and next to the controller for my Goldeneye satellite.
    Edited by wtc0771 at 12/10/11 @ 13:46

  • arcam #88 8 months ago

    We need some sort of system that allows your XBox (or whatever) to change channel (and even view the TV guide) on your Sky box if we ever have a chance at the fully integrated system everyone wants.

    PCs can already do this, along with series recording, scheduling etc., which means any other machine could do it too with the right software.

  • MoFo #89 8 months ago

    2014: Apple buy EA and Ubisoft prior to launch of new iGame console. All EA and Ubisoft back catalogue games suddenly jump to £79.99 overnight with Apple marketing claiming, "If you don't have Apple games, well...you don't have Apple games."

    Sales of all Apple games suddenly jump 15,000% overnight.

    In reality, this'll never happen. Apple make products that appeal to (trendy) men and women. No matter how hard they try to market console games to (trendy) women, the vast majority of them will never buy them. That's why Apple will never do this.

  • RedPanda #90 8 months ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Caimbeul #91 8 months ago

    Apple are well placed to do so financially but they do not have the following:

    The knowledge
    The Spririt and mind set to do things
    The support of most gamers
    Any consideration for anything but their own pockets.

  • UncleLou #92 8 months ago

    Sounds like Microsoft before the first Xbox. Except that they had a few game studios which they have in the meantime all closed down, admittedly.

  • RexRunti #93 8 months ago

    @arcam

    We need some sort of system that allows your XBox (or whatever) to change channel (and even view the TV guide) on your Sky box if we ever have a chance at the fully integrated system everyone wants.

    PCs can already do this, along with series recording, scheduling etc., which means any other machine could do it too with the right software.

    Sort of but it involves (as I understand it) IR transmitters and means you get wierd splash screens on your channels and requires quite a lot of work to set up, which the average consumer isn't happy doing.

  • StooMonster #94 8 months ago

    @Gastrian

    I love Steam and Valve stuff, but you make the most valid point in the entire discussion.

    Perhaps Gabe's distinction between Apple and Valve is that Apple "want 30 percent ... and don't care" whereas Valve "want 30 percent ... but care"?

  • Smiggs #95 8 months ago

    I'm not sure what's controversial here.

    Will Apple create some sort of set top box to match the 'big 3' consoles in power, speed, and graphical capability? There's already an Apple TV and iPhone has become a powerful force in the mobile games market so why not? If they went after the games market would they really be after the hardcore market, for me it's doubtful, it would be a big departure for their brand and very costly indeed. More likely they would look to expand the income stream for existing customers, apple phone, apple tablet, apple laptop, apple set top box. So in a way the company that needs to watch out is Nintendo, the newly found 'casual' market that made the Wii so successful could be very fickle but then again Apple could simply expand the market as Nintendo did.
    Edited by Smiggs at 12/10/11 @ 14:58

  • StooMonster #96 8 months ago

    RexRunti: Sort of but it involves (as I understand it) IR transmitters and means you get wierd splash screens on your channels and requires quite a lot of work to set up, which the average consumer isn't happy doing.

    In the US you can get cable cards that plug right into your PC, rather than having a separate set-top-box for cable. The PC can then record and time shift and also play Blu-rays and games etc all on one display.

    The problem here in the UK is that Sky have a monopoly on boxes for their satellite platform, sure Freesat is good and I think you can get Freesat card for your PC it doesn't handle Sky's encrypted stuff.

  • RealityCheque #97 8 months ago

    This is not a news article. This is speculation from someone who admits he's not involved.

    Please try harder EG.

  • Walkerj #98 8 months ago

    Gabe Newell is famous for saying stupid things.

    Anyone with a gaming computer uses a PC. The reason is how closed MAC's are in software and hardware functionality.
    Anyone who is a serious mobile gamer uses an android operating system. Plants vs. Zombies and angry birds will never take over consoles.
    Lastly is the fast that in my family 5 ipod touches/iphones. There are also 4 playstation 3's and 2 gaming PC's. No one in my house would be playing the new flash game when skyrim is sitting next to the ps3.

    If apple released the Iplay (console) it would be under powered and overpriced, like all apple tech.
    If they got really serious about a console, invested heavily and took a loss, spent billions on exclusivity of new titles and released earlier than the next generation, then the best they could possibly hopefore is xbox 360 success. but dont forget the 360 wasn't a debut console.

    The fact is that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo own so many exclusives, and cross platform developers wont go exclusive because it pays less. Apple would have to buy Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft and use that market penetration to help them. That aint gunna happen.

    but all that said, I'd much rather play with the Apple console than the Wii U. Have a nice God of war style angry birds remake.

    I will fight through hell and fly up mount piglet to peck the heart from your bacon armored hide!

  • arcam #99 8 months ago

    There are ways of getting Sky's encrypted and HD signals routed through a PC, but they are very complicated for the average user. But that's kind of the point - the technology is already there, it's just that licences need to be sorted out and the hardware/software needs to be much simpler and easier.

    And what company do we know that has contacts with the big media players and is good at taking existing complicated technology and turning it into simple, desirable devices that the layman feels comfortable with?

  • _tangent #100 8 months ago

    I don't see this happening personally. Apple's gaming successes in the tablet and smartphone markets are due imo to 2 key factors:

    1) People who don't consider themselves "gamers" will play casual games on a phone and even pay a few quid for the privilege. Thus, a lot of gaming on the iPhone and iPad represents a new sector - Apple haven't taken market share from anyone.
    2) In the dedicated handheld sector, in which Apple has taken market share, it's easier for a smartphone or iPad to compete with dedicated handheld hardware than for some generic apple media box to compete with a dedicated home console, because the quality of the experience on smartphone and dedicated handheld is similar. And the convenience of having your phone with you all the time is enough to outweight the frustration of no physical controls for a lot of gamers. And the games are a lot cheaper. A lot of handheld customers of years gone by were also probably casual gamers, so the lines between the smartphone and handheld markets are blurred.

    However, people who own PS3s or 360s are not, for the most part, casual gamers. The iPhone casual gaming model might well supplant a console like the Wii for a lot of owners, but angry birds is never going to replace an experience the likes of Gears of War/Crysis/COD/BF/Forza/GT/GTA/Skyrim/Deus ex/etc. offers for "real" gamers. In order to dislodge mircosoft and sony in that sector, apple would have to have a dedicated home console, and more importantly, developers to produce games for it.
    Edited by _tangent at 12/10/11 @ 15:35

  • _tangent #101 8 months ago

    @arcam

    Many people missing the point here.

    He's not saying Apple will release a console that beats out the other consoles in the market. he's saying Apple will release a living room 'product' that will make consoles obsolete.

    I think he's right - I have a media PC, and it is (sorry) just light years ahead of the consoles in terms of what it can do and how much fun it gives to the 'living room experience'. Non-tech-minded friends often comment on how cool it is, but you do need to know a bit about computers or do a bit of research to get it all up and running.

    If Apple can give people something similar that 'just works' in that way that Apple fans are so fond of, it could easily be a massive, massive success. Next to that, the whole concept of games consoles might suddenly find itself looking rather dated.

    Except that games consoles don't really have to compete with your media centre pc. They do offer all sorts of other crap apart from gaming, but that's just to compete with each other, not to compete with dedicated media hubs. Even if they did none of that crap, there would still be a market for games consoles, because there is a market for dedicated games. That's why this comment doesn't ring true for me.

    Apple could release some sort of living room media hub with itunes downloadable casual games, and most 360/ps3 owners would still want their ps3 or 360, because they want that scale of gaming experience. The only way apple is going to render them obsolete is if they do the same thing as well or better. In which case, they'll have released a games console. And then they're going to need people to develop big budget, triple A titles for it.

    Like i said in my own post, the smartphone/ipad argument is different. The barrier to entry into that gaming market is very low. Most dedicated handheld games fitted into the casual smartphone gaming model even before casual smartphone gaming came along, and before it was called casual smartphone gaming. Those games are cheap to make and easy to run. The same cannot be said of the "gamer" home console market
    Edited by _tangent at 12/10/11 @ 15:52

  • Devange #102 8 months ago

    HAHAHAH...no!

  • FortysixterUK #103 8 months ago

    Silly quote.
    Apple charge waaay too much for EVERYthing....even though their kit is usualy design and style heaven.
    It always costs too much. And everything on Apple seems..."casual". There's always room for hard core gamers.
    Two very different markets.

    Sony, Ninty and MicroSoft have little to fear.

  • arcam #104 8 months ago

    @_tangent

    The only thing I really agree that would be a struggle for Apple is getting big budget games on the machine. But honestly I don't think it would be that hard. It would presumably use iOS, which thousands of developers are already familiar with, and it doesn't have to start off with AAA games to get people to buy it. Just start as a living room computer that can play games, and as more and more stuff is released, games get deeper and more worthwhile, and slowly but surely your dedicated console and your dedicated DVD player start to lose their relevance.

    There is nothing special that a dedicated console can do that an all-purpose living room computer couldn't do just as well. All this stuff is the same basic hardware when you get down to it - CPU/GPU, memory and a hard drive.
    Edited by arcam at 12/10/11 @ 16:06

  • danger.to.others #105 8 months ago

    Gabe Newell, the same man who said the PS3 was a trainwreck that Sony should just scrap...at least until Sony let him use his Steam on their console. Then they were suddenly a great console who Microsoft should follow!
    No one company will every have the end all be all entertainment hub, no matter what form it comes in, in the future. There will always be another, just like how now Sony and Microsoft keep adding to the point they both offer many of the same features yet co-exist. Just because one already streamed Netflix, doesn't mean the other wouldn't do it, things like that. There will always be more than one company that wants a piece of the pie. And we all know Newell likes pie.
    Gabe is worried about lack of innovation? This from a a company whose games are all generic by-the-books gameplay? Half-Life, Left 4 Dead....control well, play is fun....not innovative. At all. Meat and potatoes by-the-book standard FPS layouts. About as innovative as Halo. Which I can imagine all the Halo zealots will chime in how innovative Halo is. (Guy in space suit shooting aliens, how original.)
    I guess Gabe's underlying point really is "Hey, developers! Other corporations are evil! But at Steam, we care!" So give us your money. The other companies hate you and kicked your dog last week. They want to destroy you.
    Thank you, Gabe, for having the company that cares! You're better than everyone else.

  • _tangent #106 8 months ago

    @arcam

    The only thing I really agree that would be a struggle for Apple is getting big budget games on the machine. But honestly I don't think it would be that hard. It would presumably use iOS, which thousands of developers are already familiar with, and it doesn't have to start off with AAA games to get people to buy it. Just start as a living room computer that can play games, and as more and more stuff is released, games get deeper and more worthwhile, and slowly but surely your dedicated console and your dedicated DVD player start to lose their relevance.

    There is nothing special that a dedicated console can do that an all-purpose living room computer couldn't do just as well. All this stuff is the same basic hardware when you get down to it - CPU/GPU, memory and a hard drive

    I think the part i take issue with is the idea that a generic apple media living room box which allows users to download and play casual games will ever replace a "hardcore" games console for gamers.

    It doesn't really have anything to do with hardware, it's about software. To replace dedicated games consoles like the 360 and ps3 (the wii is another issue) you'd have to offer the same gameplay experience - the same production value, the same complexity and sophistication of game experience. There's no reason apple couldn't release a box to compete with the dedicated consoles in the gaming space, which does other stuff as well, but it would have to do the games side of things at least as well as the MS and Sony consoles in order to replace them. And that does mean triple A titles, big budget franchises, 40hr+ rpgs like mass effect and deus ex, sophisticated racing sims etc. People who buy those consoles for those games, are not going to choose an apple box instead of a dedicated console unless it offers the same experience, irrespective of how good its other media capabilities are.

    There is a cost argument too. Most dedicated consoles are sold at a loss (again, Wii aside) - would apple be prepared to do this? A console isn't a life-style product like a phone or a laptop. It sits in your living room and plays games. For most people, it's utilitarian. I suspect most gamers wont be prepared to pay a premium for apple design even if the console compares favorably with the competition.

  • arcam #107 8 months ago

    ^It's not a console, it's a computer that also plays games. Like a PC, which is more than capable offering the same gameplay experience as a console, but which is sold as a productivity tool with multiple uses and functions.

  • _tangent #108 8 months ago

    @arcam

    ^It's not a console, it's a computer that also plays games. Like a PC, which is more than capable offering the same gameplay experience as a console, but which is sold as a productivity tool with multiple uses and functions.

    What is? This hypothetical Apple box? Are parents going to buy that for their 14 year old son to play COD on with his mates? Gabe's comment was that Apple will release something which will kill home consoles. My counter argument is simply that the only way that will happen is if it does the job of current dedicated hardcore consoles just as well as they do. If they can release a piece of hardware that's cheap enough to be a christmas present for your teenage son, and at the same time offers simple plug and play gaming at the same level as competing games consoles for "real" gamers, then sure, they can compete with MS and Sony. If they release an iOS box with access to iPad/iPhone games on your tv, for £600, they will not.

  • arcam #109 8 months ago

    My counter argument is simply that the only way that will happen is if it does the job of current dedicated hardcore consoles just as well as they do. If they can release a piece of hardware that's cheap enough to be a christmas present for your teenage son, and at the same time offers simple plug and play gaming at the same level as competing games consoles for "real" gamers, then sure, they can compete with MS and Sony.

    Well yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting will happen. It might not be as cheap as an Xbox, but people won't simply buying it for their teenage son for Xmas, they will be buying it for the whole family to use, and so the extra cost can be justified.

    edit: Just thought, perhaps the confusion is arising because you think I mean Apple could release this next year and overtake the consoles by 2013. I'm talking more long-term, general direction here, not specifics.
    Edited by arcam at 12/10/11 @ 16:48

  • arcam #110 8 months ago

    Perhaps I should also be clear that I'm not an Apple fan, not by a long shot, and I think Apple getting control of the living room (and especially the games market) would be a very bad thing.

    However the success of Xbox Live and the iPhone/iPad make me think that it might easily play out like this, even though I wish it wasn't so.

  • _tangent #111 8 months ago

    @arcam

    Well yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting will happen. It might not be as cheap as an Xbox, but people won't simply buying it for their teenage son for Xmas, they will be buying it for the whole family to use, and so the extra cost can be justified.

    edit: Just thought, perhaps the confusion is arising because you think I mean Apple could release this next year and overtake the consoles by 2013. I'm talking more long-term, general direction here, not specifics.

    Ah no, the confusion was arising because i thought you were suggesting a more casual iThing-esque gaming experience could supplant the Sonys and Microsofts of the console world. I agree that if Apple produced something with the same sort of capability there is no reason they couldn't take MS and Sony head on.

    I'm not sure they want that though. Apple likes big margins on hardware and large cash reserves - the core gaming market isn't like that. I think they would take the view that they could make far more money just selling an expensive Apple set top box with all sorts of media and streaming capabilities and which, as an aside, also allows users to play iOS games on their tv, perhaps using their iPad as a controller, perhaps releasing a separate peripheral which would obviously need dev support. It would take a concerted push to move into the core games market, and I just can't see Apple really wanting to get into it. There are less customers, and competition on hardware price is extreme.

    Like i said, the thing i really took issue with was perhaps the implication of what Gabe was saying. I.e. that apple would release a set top box and that - as if by some magical accident - no one would want a ps3 anymore because they can play angry birds on their TV. I don't think it's going to go down like that. If Apple really want a piece of Sony and MS, they're going to have to make a concerted effort.

    EDIT: Oh, and me neither! The cost of the seemless Apple user experience is a total seeding of control to Apple, which is a price i'm not willing to pay. It's a constant source of frustration to me that this argument goes over the heads of most consumers.
    Edited by _tangent at 12/10/11 @ 17:08

  • Machiavellian #112 8 months ago

    I believe you can forget about Apple making a console. Yes they will make a home media device which they already have but it will be closed just like the Apple TV is today. If you look at the competing systems out on the market today, Apple TV isn't even in the running as far as content, usability, ease of use etc. It's positioned for the Apple crowd and does it's job very well for them but not open enough to go beyond it's target base. I doubt this will change because Apple likes control.

    Creating a system that play the games people demand today is something totally different. Just releasing an Apple TV product that plays games would not see Apple encroached on Nintendo, MS or Sony unless Apple is willing to invest huge amounts of cash. The next systems by MS and Sony will be complete media devices that also are able to play those games we crave and also play games casuals get hyped about.

    I actually see MS coming out on top next gen. MS more than Sony is positioning themselves to not only be a games console but a content provider. If the new Xboxes are also sold as set top boxes by some of the big content providers, MS could blow the roof off on market share.

  • Nova1977 #113 8 months ago

    Gabe, stop doing interviews and release episode 3 already, geez !

  • Lemming81 #114 8 months ago

    It sounds horrible, but he's probably right. I've suspected the same for a while.

  • silversun #115 8 months ago

    I certainly hope nintendo has big role to play in future of games as much as i love steam and everything it does i not sure i agree here but i have a different view from many people on this anyway.

  • funkateer #116 8 months ago

    "Best Case Scenario: Apple buy Nintendo"

    That could possibly be the death of gaming as we (I) like it.
    Nintendo == japanese gaming pur sang
    Apple == american tech fashion

    Ok, I'm exaggerating.

  • Trigg3rHippie #117 8 months ago

    Fuck off Apple.

  • gjgjg #118 8 months ago

    God help us all

  • Murton #119 7 months ago

    "Should Apple turn such inventive and persuasive clout on the living-room"

    Inventive? Tell that the dozens of companies who've had their tech used without license and then been forced from the market by aggressive advertising. Or perhaps Fujitsu, you know, those guys who built a tablet in 2003 called the iPad only to have the name taken from them 7 years later despite holding the trademark already.

    Inventive and Apple do not belong in the same sentence. They're great marketeers, no question there, but their actual tech is either stolen or at least highly derivative.