Zen rejects "Xbox inferior tech" claim

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 9 September, 2011

"You'll do better on XBLA than on PSN."

Pinball FX developer Zen Studios has rejected Sony's claim that Microsoft's Xbox 360 content policy is an attempt to "protect inferior technology".

Last month Eurogamer revealed Microsoft reserves the right to refuse to publish games on Xbox Live Arcade if they launch on PlayStation Network first.

Microsoft may refuse to publish retail games if they do not feature content parity on-disc.

Sony then criticised the policy, accusing Microsoft of "protecting inferior technology". "I think they want to dumb it down and keep it as pedestrian as possible so that if you want to do anything for Blu-ray, or you have extra content above 9GB, or you want to do anything of that nature, you'd better sure as heck remember that Microsoft can't handle that," Sony's senior VP of publisher relations Rob Dyer said.

"So potentially any time we've gone out and negotiated exclusive content of things that we've announced at things like DPS or E3, publishers are getting the living crap kicked out of them by Microsoft because they are doing something for the consumer that is better on our platform than it might be perceived on theirs.

"So from a creativity standpoint and what we are doing to try to make it better for the consumer, our view is Microsoft's doing everything they can to eliminate that because they have an inferior technology."

According to Zen Studios, maker of XBLA exclusives Pinball FX and Pinball FX 2, PSN and iOS game Zen Pinball, and multiplatform game Marvel Pinball, Microsoft's content policy benefits developers.

"It's their [Microsoft's] culture," Mel Kirk, Zen Studios Vice President of Marketing and Public Relations, told Eurogamer. "Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft all have very different cultures. Microsoft has a very specific way of managing Xbox Live Arcade. It makes for a more successful platform for everybody who gets a game up there. Those things are in place to as a real gatekeeper for quality content.

"I'll be perfectly honest, you're going to do better on XBLA than you will on PSN. The policies they have in place really enable that. They don't stifle creativity because, you look like a game like Pinball FX, we did some groundbreaking things there for a free-to-play with in-app purchasing game on console. They let us take those risks. They were there. They wanted to work and help us develop them even further and gave us a lot of good input on that. That just hasn't been our experience.

"If they're [Microsoft] holding back features in games because they can't do what PlayStation does, I would agree with you. But I really don't understand that. Is there an actual specific title we can talk about?"

Kirk pointed the finger at Sony in an attempt to counter what he believes has been Microsoft bashing in recent weeks. "If we're going to give Microsoft a hard time, especially recently, with other things Sony said about them trying to inhibit creativity because they don't have powerful enough tech to do things and their technology is lacklustre, if we're going to focus on all these things then we need to then look across the board at everyone and criticise everything," he said. "It just doesn't seem fair to be lopsided one way or the other."

He recounted the experience Zen had following the PSN outage earlier this year. "When PSN went down, of course it was a huge story. But then the fallout from that got taken away. E3 came and it was all gone and forgotten about.

"We missed two releases in the PSN outage. Then there was a lot of talking between account managers. Hey, when do you guys want to release? Here are potential dates. We were like, oh man, this is really good, and we'll know when we're coming out and it's not going to be so bad.

"But the Thursday night before E3, all of the games just got released. Anybody that missed their date got pushed out and was published. We found out about it over Twitter and Facebook. Hey! Fantastic Four is available! We were like, what? Totally caught by surprise. It was hard for us to figure that one out.

"We've talked about it. We have good dialogue about it. They're not exactly apologetic. They're like, OK, next time - hopefully there's not a next time - we'll try to do it differently. We're happy with that."

While Sony has had its troubles with PSN, XBLA remains the "holy grail" for digital publishing.

"They want to be first to market," Kirk said. "That's totally a business strategy and company philosophy. If you want to get your game on XBLA, yeah, don't put it out anywhere until you get it there. But XBLA right now, Steam is rivalling, but XBLA is the Holy Grail for digital publishing.

"Steam changed things very recently, but up until the last six months, 12 months, you ask a developer, hey, where do you want to publish your game? The first answer they're going to say is XBLA. Now it's changing. Steam and XBLA are fighting and jockeying for number one destination."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (108) Latest comment 9 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Sir_STRESSHEaD #1 9 months ago

    Yes, I would like to see some proof on Sony's claims. Nice theory/excuse but where's the evidence?

  • GrizzleBoy #2 9 months ago

    You're an xbla dev....you make pinball games....yet system to system parity in terms of hardware constraints doesn't affect you, you say?

    Coincidence?
    Edited by GrizzleBoy at 09/09/11 @ 12:03

  • Kill_Crazy #3 9 months ago

    "...you ask a developer, hey, where do you want to publish your game? The first answer they're going to say is XBLA."

    With a retail publisher would be my 1st answer.

  • captain_Carl #4 9 months ago

    "But the Thursday night before E3, all of the games just got released. Anybody that missed their date got pushed out and was published"

    Uhh no they didn't. They were spread out over about 4 weeks. A fair few releases were held back by dev request.
    Edited by captain_Carl at 09/09/11 @ 12:03

  • riz23 #5 9 months ago

    You can't argue with much of that. Far too level-headed and sensible for us lot! All I know is Pinball FX2 is fucking awesome.

  • Sir_STRESSHEaD #6 9 months ago

    What's with the neg? It's all well saying that Microsoft are messing with PS3's shit and throwing toys out of the pram... but I want an example. What title?

  • MavSkipper #7 9 months ago

    "If they're [Microsoft] holding back features in games because they can't do what PlayStation does, I would agree with you. But I really don't understand that."

    lolwut?

  • balflear_lbp #8 9 months ago

    Are thet MS's PR or a indie developer? hard to know lol

  • metalmike25 #9 9 months ago

    This guy is really going overboard with the microsoft love! And this is the guy asking Team Meat to drop it and stop going about things

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #10 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • HyperTails #11 9 months ago

    So what, Microsoft can't speak for itself now?

    I don't care what some 2bit pinball developer who ports its games to PS3 ages after XBLA thinks, what Microsoft are doing is not good for gaming, and especially not good for PS3 owners.

  • miiiguel #12 9 months ago

    Company culture indeed, interesting. MS never bad mouth PSN during outage, and they had plenty of oppurtunities, while they're agressive protecting their ecosystem, Sony on the other hand seems to be still drunk with PS2 quasi-monopoly and every now and then also tries to protect its system. Whining.

  • Widge #13 9 months ago

    I wouldn't say Steam is rivalling, Steam is LEADING.

  • customfirmware #14 9 months ago

    This article contradicts it's purpose so many time. How does xbla relates to bluray?? Anyways dyer started this rubbish with his rubbish claims. If he had just kept it simple and say DVD is inferior to blu ray we would all agree. But I really still don't understand his claim that content that is release on the ps3 should be equal on the xbox when games like deadspace, and upcoming title BF3 ships with extra content.

  • Captain_Jono #15 9 months ago

    Sony has some brass neck carping on about protecting inferior technology. The PS2 was less powerful than the Gamecube, less powerful than the Xbox, yet virtually everything was made for the PS2 and ported over.

    Microsoft is simply saying they don’t want ports of games designed for the PS3 on their console, a perfectly fair view to take. As a consumer, would you want to buy a game only to find the experience significantly diminished because it was designed for a higher spec machine?
    Edited by Captain_Jono at 09/09/11 @ 12:17

  • danhese007 #16 9 months ago

    "If you want to get your game on XBLA, yeah, don't put it out anywhere until you get it there"

    "you ask a developer, hey, where do you want to publish your game? The first answer they're going to say is XBLA"

    That's exactly what Sony is complaining about. You are bullying developers into releasing on xbox live first.

    This whole article is one big contradictory mess.

  • GamesConnoisseur #17 9 months ago

    I m Steam, XBLA, PSN, 3DSi, GOG, WiiWare user, why should I as hardcore gamer feel obliged to choose only one provider?!

    Nope, of course, I m favouring some more than others, one time heavily using Steam, another XBLA etc

    What motivate me is simply the quality of contents available, the policies or cultures of providers do shape how these contents turn up, but NOT my choices. I judge on pricing and contents by my own yardstick and compare.

    XBLA still doing well but need not be always, competition great for us.

  • arcam #18 9 months ago

    So many people - devs, journalists, gamers - seem to have missed the point of what Rob Dyer said. Sometimes I wonder if they're missing the point on purpose.

  • Doctor_What #19 9 months ago

    Biker Bob - it's down to personal taste. For me, there aren't any exclusives on XBLA that I want to buy, but there are lots of exclusives on PSN that I love (Flower, Wipeout, Super Stardust, etc.).

    You ask which one is providing a better service, and for me it is very clearly PSN, but for others I'm sure the answer is different. It's down to personal taste.

    As for the 'inferior tech' claim: that was a fanboy baiting thing to say. I do think that the PS3 is a bit more future proof than the 360, but the word 'inferior' again depends on what you are judging the machines on. I can't believe that they're still doing this argument this far into the generation.

    All of which means that the pinball game's developer sounds a bit biased towards XBLA and he is entirely entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't make him more right than me or anyone else.

  • danhese007 #20 9 months ago

    I think developers should stay out of this and let Sony and Microsoft duke it out.

    But wait, isn't Zen Studios releasing that Pinball game for VITA? and he is seriously criticizing Sony for taking a stand against a policy that starves PSN of indie game?

  • stegabba #21 9 months ago

    can i play uncharted 3 on xbox? lol of course not so fuck you microsoft

  • metalmike25 #22 9 months ago

    @Doctor_What I'm really impressed by the patience you're showing towards such a boring and fanboyish comment from biker bob. And your comment is so full of sense and rational that it sticks out like a sore thumb on this site! Kudos to you

  • funkateer #23 9 months ago

    "They don't stifle creativity because, you look like a game like Pinball FX, we did some groundbreaking things there for a free-to-play with in-app purchasing game on console."

    I fail to see how a pinball game or in-app purchasing is groundbreaking in any way. Or creative for that matter.

  • riceNpea #24 9 months ago

    "I'll be perfectly honest, you're going to do better on XBLA than you will on PSN. The policies they have in place really enable that. They don't stifle creativity because, ....argghh gently Bill..... you look like a game like Pinball FX, we did some groundbreaking things there for a free-to-play....Christ! Mr Gates push it in slowly...... with in-app purchasing game on console. They let us take those risks. They were there.......that's it, in and out.nice...... They wanted to work and help us develop them even further and gave us a lot of good input on that. That just hasn't been our experience."

  • Doctor_What #25 9 months ago

    Cheers MetalMike, but I'm sure I'll revert to fanboy ranting soon ;D

  • Snake_2011 #26 9 months ago

    bikerbob says that crap every time go & make love to your xbox.
    Edited by Snake_2011 at 09/09/11 @ 12:42

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #27 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #28 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • metalmike25 #29 9 months ago

    @Doctor_What Haha, you're a modern day Jekyll and Hyde!

  • Snake_2011 #30 9 months ago

    Biker_Bob_1971 no why don't you you immature prat.
    if you can not see how you are a FANBOY go to all the Sony stories.
    Edited by Snake_2011 at 09/09/11 @ 12:55

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #31 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • Acrid #32 9 months ago

    You make pinball games, shut the hell up.

  • Doctor_What #33 9 months ago

    DJclownshoes: I've been making games for the last ten years and I'm a lead designer. My last title was released for 360, PS3, and the Wii at the end of last year. Previous titles I've worked on have sold over five million copies globally and I have also designed online games that have received over 20 million players in their first three months.

    But yes, I'm sure you're right that I'm just a fanboy who doesn't know what he's talking about.

    For me, Braid and Limbo were titles on XBLA that were amazing strengths for that service, but now they are on PSN too. As I said, it's personal preference: Trials HD doesn't really do it for me, but I think that's one of the exclusive XBLA titles that really shines, it's just not my thing. It's okay to have different opinions. You seem to prefer XBLA. Awesome, isn't it great that there is this diversity in the world?

  • Snake_2011 #34 9 months ago

    Biker_Bob_1971 lets just put each other on ignore can not bear to read any more of your anti Sony garbage.

    sorry readers for having this silly argument.

    you no what I mean bob I read all stories just I always see your fanboy comments come out.

    you feel abused by the go make love to your xbox comment? lol.
    Edited by Snake_2011 at 09/09/11 @ 13:03

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #35 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • dirtysteve #36 9 months ago

    Hey look everyone, Blu-ray! remember when we beat HD-DVD? that impresses gamers right?

    I really have no strong opinion one way or the other, rather a sense of boredom at the juvenile antics from industry people.

  • bluetoothion #37 9 months ago

    Its sounded like ''they made us say it''

    In an ideal world.... its the hosts that are supposed to hunt for developers to fill their market space with content they think best and appealing so as to be more competitive... developers having to beg for space to put their creations....even if its a pinball game...

    if someone wants quality control they should go the developer and decide if they are interested or not... by demanding anything of a developer no matter how small, means to change in someones creation with the threat or kindly put prospect to deny that space its pretty much extortion.

    EDIT:
    Seriously someone threw a neg because i said ( sports metaphor ) players are supposed to play good for scouters to see....and not scouters going to players to tell them how to play so they ll get noticed.
    Edited by bluetoothion at 09/09/11 @ 18:45

  • obihobson #38 9 months ago

    Just to put this to bed once and for all. Mirosoft have the better arcade service i know this becasue i chose to buy a 360. Therefore the PS3 is definatly rubbish in comparison. NO ONE can argue with that becasue the evidence is so overwhelming in the 360's favour. If the oppasite were true it would mean that I made the wrong choice in my console purchase and i dont really like the sound of that it some how makes me feel insecure. So let this be a lesson to all you fanboys, if you contsruct your argument in a clear and logical manner no can argue.

    I EXPECT NO MORE CONFLICT IN THESE FORUMS REGARDING WHICH IS BEST PS3 OR XBOX.... I HAVE JUST WON THE ARGUMENT, END OF STORY

  • razzastuta #39 9 months ago

    This entire article is just another fanning of the "PS3 v 360" flames-war.

    I have both 360 and PS3. I like both consoles and their services. Zapp Brannigan be damned.
    Edited by razzastuta at 09/09/11 @ 13:15

  • Xephon1970 #40 9 months ago

    Tell that to Team Meat.

  • Eamoffet #41 9 months ago

    Portal 2

  • Doctor_What #42 9 months ago

    DJcolwnshoes: My 360 died for the third time about 15 months ago. MS refused to fix it and I didn't want to reward them for designing a machine that breaks so often, so I haven't replaced it, I just use the ones at work instead. I did have it for three years before that, but I found the fan noise really annoying so didn't play it as much as my PS3. I found the points system annoying on XBLA and I had a 20GB HDD so didn't have space for many download games.

    I look at XBLA releases because I'm a game designer and it's my job to pay attention to the big releases. I don't look at all the small ones on there because:

    1. If it's amazing I'll hear about it from people in the office and I'll play it there.
    2. If it's not a big release then I don't need to know about it
    3. I've only got a limited amount of time to play games - I've got a job to do.

    However, you have reminded me: Geometry Wars is brilliant, though I wasn't bothered about the sequels. That's an exclusive from four or five years ago that I loved. Since then, all the big timed-exclusive XBLA titles I've really liked have been ported onto PSN.

    I'm not sure where you think I'm 'talking out of my arse'. If you don't want to believe me then that's up to you, I really am a lead designer, but it doesn't bother me if you think that's a lie.

    Right, speaking of work, my lunch break is over.

  • TweekeewT #43 9 months ago

    @razzastuta
    I have both 360 and PS3. I like both consoles and their services. Zapp Brannigan be damned.

    "What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

  • ZeroAX #44 9 months ago

    Could this guy suck more dick if he wanted to? Besides, really? A pinball game? How the FUCK can that be "revolutionary"?

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #45 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:18 09-05-2012

  • Sir_STRESSHEaD #46 9 months ago

    @obihobson

    Haha, you're argument is as Logical as a spoon shaped dildo.

    I EXPECT NO MORE NONSENSE FROM YOU AS YOU ARE CLEARLY A JIZZ STAIN!
    Edited by Sir_STRESSHEaD at 09/09/11 @ 13:44

  • Whitster #47 9 months ago

    I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Real gamers buy as many formats as they need to, to get access to all the best games. Loyalty to one format makes you a fanboy, not a gamer.

  • obihobson #48 9 months ago

    wow really didnt expect any negs for my previous comment :o) theres l lot of negative energy around here!

    In my defense i ve been listening to very similar arguments since C64 vs speccy.
    My true opinion on this is if i could afford a good gaming rig i would probably ignore consoles and get everything off steam!!

  • Doctor_What #49 9 months ago

    The 360 has lots of good games, but I don't really like the machine. I even quite like MS for their file standardisation and their support for charities. I just don't think the 360 was very well designed when it was first released. My PS3 has broken once and has been used a huge amount more. The 360 died three times, and this seems to be a common experience. I think the poor machine design for the first few years of its production is quite well documented and I'm not saying anything new here.

    Other people think the 360 is awesome and don't have the issues with it that I have had. That's great, and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong, I just prefer the PS3. Other people prefer the 360. I really don't mind that. The chap in the article from Zen Studios says he prefers the 360, and that's fine, I know plenty of developers who prefer the PS3 (though rarely programmers because the cell is a pain in butt until you've got your head around it) and plenty who prefer the 360. Most are slightly in favour of one or the other. No-one is wrong, everyone has an opinion...

    I've had good experiences with both PSN and XBLA developer support, and enough pain with their TCRs and TRCs that I know they each are difficult at times too, so I have no preference about them from a professional perspective. They each have their strengths but it would be unwise to discuss those on a public forum.

    Yes, I prefer the PS3, there are lots of people who feel that way, there are lots of people who prefer the 360. I know a lot of people who think all consoles are shit and that everyone should play games on the PC. I don't like playing on the PC because I work on one all day, that doesn't mean I think PCs are rubbish, I just find aspects of the experience less enjoyable than on consoles.

    I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make; you keep saying 'YOU PREFER PS3! ADMIT IT!' and I keep replying 'YES I DO! AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T... AND THAT'S FINE TOO!'.

    Right, definitely leaving this thread for a while. I'll check back in a few hours to see if you've replied. This is quite amusing because I really don't understand what you're accusing me of that I don't say straight out. We seem to agree: I prefer the PS3 because the titles on there more closely reflect my tastes and interests, XBLA has many cracking titles too (they just happen to not be so close to my tastes). The difference is that you seem to think that this is a problem, or that I'm somehow being deceptive whenever I say anything nice about MS.

  • weedar #50 9 months ago

    "Is there an actual specific title we can talk about?"

    Final Fantasy XIII, no japanese audio with english subtitles on US/European Blu-Ray because that would be "unfair" to the Xbox 360, according to Square...

  • lockload #51 9 months ago

    At present their sony marketing team bash/moan/cry but they cant back it up look at the NPD results for august they are still way off the pace, the truth is sony talk a lot of bollocks and cant back it up at all

    Its not surprising they are accustomed to being the #1, they dictated terms in the last gen but not any more, get over it sony and know you place

  • Doctor_What #52 9 months ago

    DJclownchoes: Two times RROD or three? I had two RRODs when I posted that, then I got it fixed by a local dealer for a tenner, then it died again, hence the third RROD. No lying and nothing sinister there. I was also pretty annoyed about it at the time because I was halfway through a second playthrough of Mass Effect. You really are looking for conspiracies where there are none.

  • TheEarlOfZinger #53 9 months ago

    What do you expect - his xbox360 shit the bed and died 3 times.

  • antblu87 #54 9 months ago

    The xbox is the poor mans playstation' reject that comment

  • antblu87 #55 9 months ago

    i've had three xbox 360's the first one being a launch model and they all died due to inferior technology

  • MaoZedong #56 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:40:08 17-12-2011

  • Pastici #57 9 months ago

    "I had two RRODs when I posted that, then I got it fixed by a local dealer for a tenner, then it died again, hence the third RROD."

    You said it was within the three years yeah? Why didn't you sent it to Microsoft? They extend the warranty if they fix it.

  • Darren #58 9 months ago

    Owning both the PS3 and Xbox 360, I'd definitely have to say Sony's service is vastly inferior to Microsoft which offer cheaper games, free trials for all XBLA titles and a much broader range of games to choose from.

    That's not to say the PS3 doesn't have great PSN games, just that they're few and far between (though generally of a high quality) and it seems random as to whether there's a trial demo or not. If there's no playable demo then I will not buy the game, it's as simple as that, so Sony and its publishers definitely need to be more consistent in that regard if they want my cash. Also, I subscribed to PSN+ for a year and have to say that so far it's been a real disappointment with very little in the way of content that has interested me. It seems at the moment that I'm paying just to receive small discounts on a limited number of games that I don't want anyway!

  • antblu87 #59 9 months ago

    yh i could of sent em off or i could of brought a slimline ps3 which i did and realised that the shitbox 360 was the fiat punto of gaming an absolute nail

  • Mister-Wario #60 9 months ago

    Have people always bitched about console choice or is this merely an Internet Age phenomenon?

  • Doctor_What #61 9 months ago

    To put it more simply, I do prefer PS3, but I keep a careful eye on the 360 and see it has many strengths and definitely don't think less of anyone who prefers the strengths of the 360. I think people who are rabid fans of either system are pretty daft if they can't admit the strengths of the other options, but life is far too short to care much about this kind of thing.

    Please, if you think I have said unfair or inaccurate things about the 360 then educate me. I have talked about the reliability and fan noise. I prefer the PS controller, but that's just an overall preference and I think the 360 pad has much better triggers. Is any of this unfair criticism?

    (Oh, and while I'm being completely accurate, technically the third RROD wasn't a RROD - it RROD'd for a moment then it stopped responding to power at all, so I'm not entirely sure it counts. If it was simply another RROD I would have got it fixed again. You appear to be marking my comments for accuracy so I figured I'd try and give closer to full disclosure! :p )

    God this is getting tedious.

  • Widge #62 9 months ago

    I'm sorry, do we have djclownshoes questioning someone's comment history here?

  • Xardan #63 9 months ago

    This isnt even said by Microsoft, so you can hardly accuse the man of bias. The same cant be said for the Sony VP.

  • king26 #64 9 months ago

    When comparing exclusive games the ps3 does prove to have supperior tech

  • antblu87 #65 9 months ago

    When comparing consoles the ps3 seems to have superior tech nevermind the games

  • antblu87 #66 9 months ago

    How can a console that u still have to buy rechargable battery packs for the pads even be considered to be in the same league as the playstation never mind the fact it took three console revisions to build a console that is almost on par with the launch model ps3 but still not there yet

  • kassmageant #67 9 months ago

    ok, with all honesty - yes, ps3 got better specs than xbox graphics wise - killzone or uncharted look better than any xbox exclusive - but come on, not THAT better, they don't make gears or halo look like piece of shit - simply less detailed.

    but graphics aside - where ps3 got that huge advantage, exactly? blu ray, yeah? well, did anything other than mgs 4 even uses that much space? - and that one did only because of insane ammount of cutscens - wow, so innovative, gameplay-cutscenes ratio 50/50, truly way of the future for gaming : P

  • CypherQ #68 9 months ago

    Had both the PS3 and 360 since launch.... can't say any games are less superior than the other. Just have them both because I want access to exclusives on both machines.

    As for the hardware.... well I don't think any 360 owner can really say hand on heart that the 360 has superior build quality really? My launch 360 was terrible... ran extremely hot and was very noisy. But that aside it ran Project Gotham Racing 3 and that is what sold it to me...With respect to the PS3. Bought that after launch and was very impressed with the hardware,less so with the software and PSN TBH although Motorstorm was fun. Not sure why but expected it to completely outgun the 360. It didn't. But it now has some great exclusives too. Pays your money and makes your choice. Or if you can and want the ultimate choice in console gaming experiences just buy both... :)

    And that is the key to which is "superior" which one has the games you want to play the most on.

  • Phredreeke #69 9 months ago

    I'll be perfectly honest, you're going to do better on XBLA than you will on PSN. The policies they have in place really enable that.

    Yes, because when your game gets release you'll be competing with at most 1 other new XBLA title. Meanwhile on PSN you could be competing to any number of games, as well as discounted games (which XBLA rarely has)

    It makes for a more successful platform for everybody who gets a game up there

    Yes, but what about the consumer? And what about developers who get their games delayed to fit into Microsoft's "great masterplan of XBLA releases"

  • miiiguel #70 9 months ago

    Sometimes I think about getting a PS3, young lady at my Sony shop is nice, but then i read this comments threads and i fveel scared, or disappointed. bad image of the community I say, poor service to the brand. Maybe my vision is biased by the 192 titles i own and the 3 360s, maybe it'd feeel the opposite if it had started the other way, but shit is what it is, and some people look pretty bad in this picture.
    There's not a single game on XBLA I want/like? Realy? Can some loser just say that because he doesn't like the machine, that's fucking disrespectful for the developers of awesome games, nothing to do with the 360, ffs.
    Poor man somehting? Nah.... this crowd is not for me,.

  • MDL199 #71 9 months ago

    Anyone else impressed with Sony telling Biker Bob to fuck off over the phone?!

    Good work Sony I say :-)

    Sorry Bobby boy :-)
    Edited by MDL199 at 09/09/11 @ 17:30

  • chessboxer #72 9 months ago

    I wonder what Jonathon Blow or some other devs like the team who made Darwinia would have to say on this matter...

  • blackbriar101 #73 9 months ago

    Never knew Virtual Pinball was an open world memory storage Ram vampire.

  • WinterSnowblind #74 9 months ago

    Why do people keep bringing up Team Meat. Although they had some bad things to say about Microsoft, they couldn't publish their game on PSN at all and said even worse things about Sony.. not to mention Apple.

  • Machiavellian #75 9 months ago

    So many people - devs, journalists, gamers - seem to have missed the point of what Rob Dyer said. Sometimes I wonder if they're missing the point on purpose.

    No one missed the point. A lot of people remember when Sony was on top and they did not have some happy attitude towards their competition. Now they are third trying to catch up on retail as well as digital and they are crying foul. You do not dictate when you are on the bottom and Sony knows this because they were the high man last gen and threw their weight around.

    The reason most people do not take a PR head like Dryer as someone who is hurt by MS policy because we all know his tune would change if Sony was the top dog and Nintendo and MS was begging for scraps.

  • Machiavellian #76 9 months ago

    I'll be perfectly honest, you're going to do better on XBLA than you will on PSN. The policies they have in place really enable that.

    Yes, because when your game gets release you'll be competing with at most 1 other new XBLA title. Meanwhile on PSN you could be competing to any number of games, as well as discounted games (which XBLA rarely has)

    It makes for a more successful platform for everybody who gets a game up there

    Yes, but what about the consumer? And what about developers who get their games delayed to fit into Microsoft's "great masterplan of XBLA releases"

    Well the consumer benifits just as much as the developer. Last crap means the consumer can just concentrate on a very short list which helps everyone. The developers also benifit because it requires them to make a quality title to gain a slot. Everyone benifits because with less competition means more exposure and more sales. Consumers benifit because they get better quality titles since developers cannot thow up just any old piece of crap.

  • IIJAZMANII #77 9 months ago

    I like Microsofts policy.

  • LLT_taz #78 9 months ago

    I own both xbox and playstation, i play my ps3 more as i enjoy there exclusives. i have dis-liked my xbox since they brought in that new dashboard and way to search on market place. i prefer psn. but then xbox has great communication between members. so they have their ups and downs..

    I think what PS guy is on about it is BF3 having extra's on PS3 due to sony making a deal with EA and Microsoft are not happy. oh well...

  • MDL199 #79 9 months ago

    Microsoft's content policy probably doesn't have much of an effect with downloadable games but it certainly is a bad thing for disc based games.

    As just one example Lost Planet 2 (not a great game I know), had significant content cut because of the 360's reliance on it's last gen storage disc but because of Microsoft's policy PS3 and PC owners had to miss out too. I'm sure this will have happened to many other games too but the developers have chosen to stay quiet.

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/235...
    Edited by MDL199 at 09/09/11 @ 19:34

  • Turbotim3 #80 9 months ago

    its obvious that the sony guy was talking about the amount of content with regards to blu ray, he never said anything about processor power. it makes me wonder if he read the interview or if someone quoted part of the interview which could be taken out of context. it makes the guy from zen look like a total moron because he is turning this into a flame war when he could and should have read the whole interview which would have revealed that the sony guy was talking about blu ray. you have toremember all of this was brought on because of battlefield 3 shipping on 2 or 3 discs for the xbox 360

  • casodi #81 9 months ago

    if i could only afford one console and i chose the ps3 that doesnt make me a fanboy. It seems its mostly the people who own both consoles that are bashing on one another.

  • Phredreeke #82 9 months ago

    Well the consumer benifits just as much as the developer. Last crap means the consumer can just concentrate on a very short list which helps everyone. The developers also benifit because it requires them to make a quality title to gain a slot.

    Quality titles like Brain Challenge, Bliss Island, Screwjumper, Soltrio Solitaire and Shrek-n-Roll?

  • Doctor_What #83 9 months ago

    @miiiguel: I said there weren't any *exclusive* XBLA titles that I want, and I later corrected myself to say that I would like to still have Geometry Wars. There are plenty of cracking games on XBLA, including some very good exclusives such as Trails HD but, like I say, I'm not very interested in Trails (just like I'm not very interested in Joe Danger). I played lots of Professional BMX Simulator and Kickstart in the 80s and I'm not really looking for an update no matter what system it's on... But once again, this is just personal taste.

    I've had a lot of people like games I've worked on, and I've had a lot of people not like them too (some of them expressing themselves very vocally in comments threads on here - yes, developers do read their own reviews). It's not insulting if people don't like things you make, that's just life. Like I say, there are plenty of other people who feel differently from me and that's fine.

    By your logic, you only want to own a console owned by people who agree with you. That's very weird. I buy consoles based on the games, not the other owners. The 360 doesn't have enough exclusives in genres I like to make me want one, but my tastes are unashamedly a bit arty so I completely get that other people will make different choices.

    Christ, you'd think I'd insulted your firstborn rather than said 'I greatly prefer the downloadable exclusives on console X rather than Y'.

    While we're at it, I still prefer the range of budget titles available on the Spectrum over those on the Commodore. So ner.

  • miiiguel #84 9 months ago

    Don't mentioned it, it's cool. I might be wrong but people who prefer PS3 generaly, not saying you're like it (now... I remember :) ), are..., idk, "bad karma-ish", just look at kinect threads, or anythins MS, sorry... M$. I might, like I said be biased but a bad aura exhales from PS3 crowd, very negative towards everything not PS3.

  • Doctor_What #85 9 months ago

    Rabid fanboys on both sides are a pain in the arse. Believe me, there's a whole bunch of pro-360 tossers of equal size and fury to the pro-PS3 tossers. Perhaps your extensive 360 collection blinds you to them more, but they are very definitely present.

    Out of curiosity, how on earth can you afford 190± games? You must have a job to afford them, but then how do you get the time to play them? I barely have time for a game per month, often less between work and household stuff. Do you finish them all or just have a go for a few hours?

  • miiiguel #86 9 months ago

    I actually finish them al...l, like completly (guess I have like 90% of my games with all Achievements)..., aside from few of them realy bad like Perfect Dark Zero, or Kameo. Well I have a 360 since it came out, so it's been a while. And every so often I really commit myself to complete a game (I remember one time Kojima saying, if you realy want it, you find the time... it's possible, he's right), like now this Resonance of Fate (I buy the game guides not only to enhance the experienve with some side stories and whatnot bit also to cut some corners... I admit it), every 2-3 free hours I have available I play the game. Maybe that'll change soon, I want a Miguelito some time soon. :D
    Edited by miiiguel at 10/09/11 @ 00:03

  • varkdm #87 9 months ago

    What I'm not sure I really understand is exactly what the Sony guy is referring to. Isnt XBLA only for small games anyway? He is talking about not having blu-ray disc functionality, cant do more than 9gb... well.. it can, but thats only for disc games? PSN and XBLA have nothing to do with discs, they are download services. What am I missing?

    I have a ps3 but i admit i prefer the 360, mainly because of the controller is more comfy for me. I ahve yet to see the advantage of blu-ray over dvd. Big games use mutliple dvds.. wich means you ahve to swap the disc once or twice in each 10-40 hour game. Last game I layed was MGS4.. and that required 10-15 minute installation sessions every 4 hours.. so .. what advantage did the blu ray have there?

    The reason why Sony ended up in this situation, where cross platform games are developed for the 360 first, ps3 second, is because the ps3 is a total bitch to program for and MS got in and built up good relations with the developers early - through free development its and targetting students. They made their platform the easiest to work with through building familiarty with the developers themselves. The fact that XBL has a subscription model, means that indy developers can take a chance with them with online content etc because its paid for through the subscriptions. PSN charges the developers for the service, meaning it can be a costly risk and eats into their bottom line. Thats how i understood it worked, things may have changed over the years, but i remember speaking to a deveolper who said it was a major concern for them.

    This chap has every right to talk about the different networks. He represents a successful independant games studio that publishes on a number of download networks. In his experience XBLA and Steam are the best networks (most likely in terms of revenue as much as support). It does look like the journo's have got the wrong end of the stick though as the Sony guy just cant be talking about XBLA and then complaing it limits content comapred to blu-ray disc stuff.

  • TudeScud #88 9 months ago

    @Doctor_What This may just be my own personal take on etiquette, but... Don't brag and say things like you're a lead design who has worked on multiple-million dollar sellers, without dissolving your anonymity. I tend to be a fairly trusting person (though cynical) and that sort of comment makes you seem like a liar... At best, character-deficient.
    Edited by TudeScud at 10/09/11 @ 00:13

  • Doctor_What #89 9 months ago

    Fair point TudeScud, I just get a bit bored of the assumption when disagreements arise that people who post comments can't possibly know what they're talking about and I couldn't think of any other way to get the point across more succinctly. It was probably a bit sledgehammer-on-walnut, but no-one's perfect.

  • KrazyFace #90 9 months ago

    WOOOO! FANBOY BAIT!!!

    FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!!

  • KongRudi #91 9 months ago

    I don't understand why Zen Studios thinks it's so great that store tell them that which stores they can sell their games in, or which territories they develop it for.
    If Microsoft is Zen's publisher, and help pay for the developement - or if they get a advertimsement deal in return, that's fine. But otherwise, it's a incredibly consumer and developer-hostile poilcy to let the store decide wich other stores it's gonna be available at.

    This is pretty similar to why we don't get mature games in the west, because no western developer want to make a game with age-rating wich Wallmart have decided to refuse to sell.
    The only developer wich tried were Rockstar with Manhunt.

    Sony didn't refuse to put Super Meatball up on the store, from what I understand Team Meat came with a alpha-build and wanted Sony to be the publisher of the game, and Sony said no thanks.
    They also took the build to Nintendo and Microsoft, Nintendo where excited for the game, and they commisioned a version for Wiiware. Wich seems to have been cancelled or delayed after they Microsoft also wanted it.
    It's on Steam aswell now.
    I'm guessing Sony weren't interested in publishing Super Meatbal back thenl, because it seemed similar to Soundbytes, and Locoroco. :-/

    The most restrictive thing about XBLA is the 2GB limit tough. That, and a few other NDA-restricted decisions, is the main reason why the new Oddworld games seems to be PSN-exclusive on consoles, even tough they tried to get a 360-version too.
    That's a hardware-limitation according to Microsoft, so when PS3 don't have a problem releasing a 2,1 GB Oddworld game, 360 has inferior tech.

    Steam seems to be the holy grail for digital distribution now, I read that the Breath of Fire 2 devs earned more in the first week at Steam than they had earned for a year and a half on XBox marketplace, with they rogue RPG-games. :-/

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #92 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #93 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • ShadowSnypa786 #94 9 months ago

    according to wiki sony didnt like supermeat boy? had nothing to do with the fact it was on xbox!

    Because of Sony's initial disinterest in the game, Team Meat entered into contractual obligations that prohibited Super Meat Boyfrom ever being sold on the PlayStation Network.[20]The WiiWare version was canceled as a result of the challenge of meeting the file size limitations imposed by Nintendo, primarily because of the expansion in the size of the game from the initial proposal.

  • Quak #95 9 months ago

    > Steam and XBLA are fighting and jockeying for number one destination.

    You mean position.

  • shadowdogg #96 9 months ago

    I just don't like how Microsoft are saying - look if your on PSN First - we won't bother with you at all. Maybe Sony should be more ruthless.

  • theonlyix #97 9 months ago

    wow. It is spectacular how alot of ps fanboys are lying their teeth off here.... I have both and xbla is far superior to psn in most ways, not only content. Sony show alot of tackyness trying to bash ms for running a company. Ms didnt say a thing about the psn outtage - something they could have profited enourmosly on with promotions and stuff. Sony has like biker said, started to think they can bully anyone again, like in the ps1/2 days. People defending their behaviour are only hurting the industry(and themselves in that their grasp is minimalized). MS was the knight in shining armor that rode in on that horse and stood up to the evil overlord who bullied developers and they has (afaik) tried to be the "good" guys all of this generation atleast.

    ps3 fanboys gonna whine now, but seriously....

    btw, pinball 1 and 2 are really really good, and I dont even like pinball normally....

  • Lucodeath #98 9 months ago

    Xbox arcade beats psn hands down. nuff said.

    A lead designer who wont buy an xbox slim? Dont they pay enough or something
    Edited by Lucodeath at 10/09/11 @ 23:51

  • Beltsu #99 9 months ago

    Sony's senior VP of publisher relations Rob Dyer is a douche. I don't see Microsoft telling that kind of crap about it's rivals. Yeah, Xbox doesn't have a bluray... but I bought the console for gaming, not watching movies. And the kind of value I get from my Xbox (from games, to mp, demos, Xbox Live, and even the gamepad) is better then the value I would have on a PS3.

    Sony's been disapointing me in a lot of ways, regarding the way they treated the PSP (trying to sell us a 99€ "budget" PSP now? And call that cheap? Really???), the PSN fiasco, and even some games (looking at you, GT5 and Bayonetta). They should at least look in the mirror and not do that crap talk about Microsoft or Nintendo.

  • 32768Colours #100 9 months ago

    "They want to be first to market," Kirk said. "That's totally a business strategy and company philosophy. If you want to get your game on XBLA, yeah, don't put it out anywhere until you get it there.

    So essentially, whether or not the inferior tech claim has any basis is entirely irrelevant. After all, that was just an opportunity for a PR-spun assumption. You can even dismiss how inconvenient it is for us gamers to have to wait to get things on PSN or Steam. Because that's really all it is; inconvenient.

    No, if Sony's (representative's) statement did anything, it deflected debate away from the original and most important point: Microsoft are unashamedly doing everything they can to control the distribution of games in what should be a free market. If developers got paid an incentive for being XBLA exclusive, it'd be annoying for non-360 gamers but at least the devs could offset missing cross platform revenues.

    As it stands though, Microsoft's methods appear to be a way of gaining exclusitivity for free; the threat of being denied an XBLA release and the financial consequences that go with that serving as more than enough incentive to release on 360 first.

    Sure, Microsoft might be operating within the law, but that doesn't make such practices right, it just means the law is inadequate, ineffective or simply just wrong and unjust. It certainly doesn't appear to protect the broader business interests of the third parties on which they almost entirely rely to populate their service with content.

    Microsoft are past masters at skirting the fringes of ethical business practices and trading laws, so the fact that they've managed to seduce some developers into finding this system acceptable is like some sort of corporate Stockholm Syndrome.

    In spite of my defence of the Zen guy's comments in the Team Meat-related story, I think the ease at which he is willing to be swayed by Microsoft's corporate might is slightly disheartening for the future of digital distribution. It only really adds to the negative associations I make with digital distribution in general; that its largely promoted and nutured by huge corporations as a means of controlling content with an iron grip. That businesses and consumers alike are willing to accept this for the sake of an easy life is really frustrating to be honest.
    Edited by 32768Colours at 11/09/11 @ 03:50

  • BuckEntropy #101 9 months ago

    Just... why...

    "So essentially, whether or not the inferior tech claim has any basis is entirely irrelevant. After all, that was just an opportunity for a PR-spun assumption. You can even dismiss how inconvenient it is for us gamers to have to wait to get things on PSN or Steam. Because that's really all it is; inconvenient."

    WTF are you talking about? The conditions aren't that anyone else does have to wait, only that XBL doesn't have to wait. And once again, the whole attitude presumes that you're somehow entitled to all content in first place.

    "No, if Sony's (representative's) statement did anything, it deflected debate away from the original and most important point: Microsoft are unashamedly doing everything they can to control the distribution of games in what should be a free market. If developers got paid an incentive for being XBLA exclusive, it'd be annoying for non-360 gamers but at least the devs could offset missing cross platform revenues."

    That's a perfect example of how the concept of the "free market" has become nothing more than a platitude. You have no clue. But by your own evident (transitory) definition, no, this was NEVER "supposed to be a free market" since Nintendo wrote the rules of this game. And of course Sony deflected away from the "original and most important point", because they're every bit as guilty of it as anyone. A direct attack on those terms could truly blow up in their face.

    "It only really adds to the negative associations I make with digital distribution in general; that its largely promoted and nutured by huge corporations as a means of controlling content with an iron grip."

    Good for you making all the connections, 25 years after the fact... but better late than never, and at least someone will get crucified!

  • 32768Colours #102 9 months ago

    @BuckEntropy

    I think you're being perhaps overly confrontational with your response, but none-the-less, I get where you're coming from. I remember Nintendo doing the exact same sort of thing with Street Fighter 2 back on the SNES and I know Sony have been quite happy to do the same on previous occasions. In fact, I made that very point in the thread of the original story on this. I'd even go so far as to say that Sony and Nintendo might be a bit gutted that they didn't think of taking this approach before MS did.

    So fair enough I agree with you - I think the lateness of my post must have clouded my viewpoint somewhat, seeing as reading through it again does partly contradict my original post (and not make as much sense as it did when I posted it). :)

    As for the issue of waiting to get stuff onto other distribution networks, I was really referring to the general noise you get on forums about timed-exclusives. Surely you can see that people who don't have access to XBL do have to wait for some games because of Microsoft's practices? How could they not? It rarely happens the other way around (although to be fair, like you say I'm sure they would if Sony and Nintendo had their way). As for exclusives, well they're endemic to gaming anyway, but you do have to wonder how many games have ended up becoming exclusives because of the fear of being denied distribution on XBLA later.

    But yeah, as far as timed-exclusives go, folks will get this content eventually, so its nothing more than inconvenient. Bringing that into the debate is moving the discussion away from - what I feel at least - is the real issue; that Microsoft's approach is damaging healthy competition. Whether other companies would (or do) also take this approach doesn't make it acceptable and in that sense perhaps we should be discussing these practices more broadly than just aiming it at Microsoft. But whilst the story is centred around them, it makes sense to focus on the topic in hand.

  • BuckEntropy #103 9 months ago

    But the story is centered around them precisely because a competitor, one who's not proven to be any "nicer" themselves, trumped up that story. You made a very illuminating point, and then buried it again with like three subsequent paragraphs of very specific anti-MS rhetoric. In effect you "deflected debate away" from your own original, important point.

    So yeah, that's about as profound a FFS moment as it gets for me. And to echo paraphrase one of your own sentiments there, I'm combative because this thread (and forum in general) is already a combat zone... when in Rome and all that right? ;)

    It's one thing to say 'hey, Sony's rabble rousing at least brings this debate into the open'; but quite another to act the willing tool of their agenda by perpetuating the one-sided potential for propagandizing the issue.

  • Beltsu #104 9 months ago

    @Biker_Bob_1971 agree

  • Phredreeke #105 9 months ago

    The most restrictive thing about XBLA is the 2GB limit tough. That, and a few other NDA-restricted decisions, is the main reason why the new Oddworld games seems to be PSN-exclusive on consoles, even tough they tried to get a 360-version too.
    That's a hardware-limitation according to Microsoft, so when PS3 don't have a problem releasing a 2,1 GB Oddworld game, 360 has inferior tech.

    I don't think it's a HARDWARE-limitation as much as an OS-limitation. I believe it's that XBLA games are kept in a single file, and the file size limit for X360 is 2 gb. Games on Demand gets around this by storing the game as multiple files.

    WTF are you talking about? The conditions aren't that anyone else does have to wait, only that XBL doesn't have to wait.

    PSN and Steam has to wait for MS to put the game into their XBLA release schedule.

  • Architect_z #106 9 months ago

    Someone should give these guys a fish each and they should have a slapping match

  • shadowdogg #107 9 months ago

    I reject your claim, buddy!

  • Badassbab #108 9 months ago

    Steam>XBLA>PSN

    Steam has by far and away the best deals.