What is Kinect's launch line-up?

By Robert Purchese Published 18 October, 2010

UPDATED with European info.

Update: Microsoft has two extra games prepared for the European launch of Kinect on 10th November. These are Get Fit with Mel B (SouthPeak) and Dance Paradise (Universal).

The European launch line-up looks like this:

Available on 10th November (European Kinect launch)

  • Kinect Adventures
  • Kinect Sports
  • Kinectimals
  • Your Shape: Fitness Evolved
  • Dance Central
  • The Biggest Loser Ultimate Workout
  • DanceMasters
  • MotionSports
  • Kinect Joy Ride
  • Crossboard 7
  • Fighters Uncaged
  • Sonic Free Rider

Available on 19th November

  • EA Sports Active 2
  • Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 1

Available on 26th November

  • Game Party: In Motion
  • Get Fit With Mel B
  • Dance Paradise
  • Sports Island Freedom
  • Zumba Fitness

Original story: The Xbox 360 goes hands-free on 10th November with the launch of Project Natal sorry Kinect.

But what games can you buy for it on launch day?

These 17, according to Xbox Live's Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb.

Incidentally, Hryb said that total is one less than Microsoft had ready for the US launch of the Xbox 360. And that's another example of Microsoft comparing Kinect to a console launch.

  • Kinect Adventures (Good Science Studio/Microsoft Game Studios) included with every Kinect sensor
  • Kinectimals (Frontier Developments Ltd./Microsoft Game Studios) $49.99 ERP (US)/$59.99 ERP (US) limited collector's edition. Limited collector's editions of the "Kinectimals" game packaged with a 7" plush toy that unlocks a new animal and toy in the game will be available at select retailers.
  • Game Party: In Motion (Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment) $39.99 ERP (US)
  • Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 1 The Videogame (Electronic Arts/EA Bright Light), 49.99 ERP (US)
  • Your Shape: Fitness Evolved (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Dance Central (MTV Games/Harmonix), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • The Biggest Loser Ultimate Workout (THQ), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • DanceMasters (Konami), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • EA Sports Active 2 (EA SPORTS), $99.95 ERP (US) (Includes Heart Rate Monitor)
  • Zumba Fitness (Majesco), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Kinect Sports (Rare/Microsoft Game Studios) $49.99 ERP (US)
  • MotionSports (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Deca Sports Freedom (Hudson Entertainment)
  • Kinect Joy Ride (Big Park/Microsoft Game Studios), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Adrenalin Misfits (Konami), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Fighters Uncaged (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)
  • Sonic Free Rider ($49.95)

Eurogamer played Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, Dance Central, Your Shape: Fitness Evolved and Joy Ride earlier this year. Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter wrote some words about them.

That could be you!

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (99) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Gaiduku #1 2 years ago

    wow....not one of them looks remotely good

  • Das_Ginge #2 2 years ago

    Really there is atleast 2 that interest me. let me guess you dont get to shoot anyone in the face so you aren't interested?

  • kitsuneyo #3 2 years ago

    Thay all sound abysmal. $50 for Sonic Free Riders. Hmm.

  • Shikasama #4 2 years ago

    Let the analysis from the armchair experts who are certain Kinext will fail commence!

  • excelexcel #5 2 years ago

    Expensive stuff....whats funny is that the closest thing to a 'core' game Sonic Free Riders looks to be the worse of the lot! What possesed Sega to continue that mediocre franchise is beyond me

  • 00.00.01 #6 2 years ago

    Where's the title that lets me make the pew-pew-pew moves with my hands?

  • HisDudness #7 2 years ago

    The Biggest Loser? hehe. Delicious!

  • ecureuil #8 2 years ago

    That video was embarrassing. I had to turn it off, it's cringeworthy.

  • thedaveeyres #9 2 years ago

    "It's not about winning or losing, it's about looking like a twat bouncing up and down in your front room like the fucking energiser bunny, after you've just done a 12 hour day and then put the kids to bed."

  • Bradach #10 2 years ago

    90% shovelware

  • Eraser #11 2 years ago

    Hey look, it's all rehashes of Wii titles that were rehashes themselves already. Fantastic guys, just fantastic.

  • darkmorgado #12 2 years ago

    So then, 4 games with the words "sports" in them, 3 fitness games, and 3 dancing games.

    Wow. Just wow.

    /not impressed.

  • DavoTheDiv #13 2 years ago

    what a load of shite. Gonna be about as accurate as Stevie Wonder is at darts

  • BeersOfWar #14 2 years ago

    My GF is gonna buy so she can play Dance Central, Fitness Evolved and the Tiger rape one.

    Ain't costing me, so I can wait for some decent games.

    I don't believe the amount invested in this won't produce some half decent, non shovelware games eventually. MS aren't stupid.

  • darkmorgado #15 2 years ago

    @Microsoft

    The mega drive called. It wants its cheesy chiptunes back.

  • ElNino9 #16 2 years ago

    kinectlol

  • El-Dev #17 2 years ago

    "What is Kinect's launch line-up?
    This."

    Rearranging "thiS" would suitably describe it.

  • kangarootoo #18 2 years ago

    Why do these videos always show barely any gameplay. If I were to buy this (I'm not), I wouldn' be paying for a bunch of people to come to my home and jog on the spot, I'd be playing for the gameplay experience.

    So why don't we get to see the gameplay experience?

  • HisDudness #19 2 years ago

    El-Dev:
    are you suggesting that "this" is an anagram for "hits", implying that these games all look like money in the bank system sellers?

    Only time will tell...

  • matrim83 #20 2 years ago

    I like how the video says "That could be you."

    Not if you dont put a gun to my head. :D

  • thewool #21 2 years ago

    lol

  • xentar #22 2 years ago

    I wonder Why they allowed so many similar games to launch at the same date. It doens tmake any sense to me with sameay price points it will only dillute the gamers interrest and noone will really profit from this.

    As for me, I think Fighters Uncaged can be good along with Dance central and the fitness game by EA. the rest cant compete with Sports Champions and Tumble. And i thought that Move lineup was lackluster except for my favorite game of this year which is Sports Champions.

  • layleeloo #23 2 years ago

    Not the greatest but still better than what Move launched with (before you jump on me thats not a fanboy statement, I did buy Move on launch too!). At least theres a little more variety.

  • Shakey_Jake33 #24 2 years ago

    Well that saves me £150!

  • citizenHUNTER #25 2 years ago

    That trailer is quite pants, especially the (intentionally?) choppy bullet-time stuff.

  • El-Dev #26 2 years ago

    HisDudeness: I suppose some of them will be hits as well.

  • FreakyZoid #27 2 years ago

    Kinect Joy Riding? Oh, my mistake.

  • jonbwfc #28 2 years ago

    HOW MANY fitness games?

  • Fab4 #29 2 years ago

    Its funny that they keep trying to equate it to a new console launch. If the 360 had launched with titles like that more Wiis would have been sold.

  • thewool #30 2 years ago

    ...and they are sold out are they? Honestly??

    How many did we import, 2?

  • NimbusTLD #31 2 years ago

    Wow, the way the shot moves around in the ad looks cool and is technically impressive!

  • Shikasama #32 2 years ago

    I can't believe people are so short sighted.

    Personally I never buy new technology at launch (and the majority of people on here must be the same, as the early adopters who buy things like the ipad were mercillesly ripped for weeks) and this extends through to game slike MMOs and stuff. Why? Because it is common knowledge that technology improves over time. Hell, look at the 360s own list of launch titles.

    What people don't seem to understand is that these launch products aren't aimed at you, the ludicrously titled 'hardcore gamer'. They are to try and show off the concept behind the tech and get people who dismiss games as COD type broforce student crap into the idea that they can evolve beyond something like the Wii.

    It'll be the second and third generation games that appeal to more experienced game players. The stuff on display at the Tokyo Games Show for instance, which has received very little coverage. People seem to genuinley think that the worlds top developers are all sitting there making little sports games for Kinect and that is where it will end.

    So whilst I won't be buying Kinect at launch, the people who are in every comments thread spouting crap like 'kinectlol' and 'this will bomb' can go and do one. I'll stay here and keep an open mind, waiting to see what the industry has to offer and what it can achieve with a tue advancement in consumer tech.

  • FreakyZoid #33 2 years ago

    > What people don't seem to understand is that these launch
    > products aren't aimed at you, the ludicrously titled 'hardcore gamer'

    You mean the sort of person who would happily spunk away £150 on a new gadget on launch day?

  • TheNinkyNonk #34 2 years ago

    It's a sad world when a Harry Potter game is your most hardcore one...

  • asphaltcowboy #35 2 years ago

    Hmm, well Kinect Adventures is quite fun and Dance Central is brilliant. Won't be investing til there's a bit more out there though!

  • jonsaan #36 2 years ago

    Absolute dogshit. Lets hope somone can apply some innovation to this thing at some point in the future.

  • des #37 2 years ago

    Looks like heaven for motion controls fans.Looking forward to the launch so i can laugh at silly comments(mostly from scared sdf brigade).

  • slippysloppy #38 2 years ago

    The more I read about Natal, sorry Kinect, the more disappointing it becomes. I never thought I'd say this I pronounce Move the motion winner. Goodbye Wii with your poor graphics and shitty games. Hello Move with accurate motion sensing hard core gaming like Kill Zone 3, Heavy Rain, Infamous 2, Grand Turismo 5 and admittedly it's own range of dog shit motion games.
    Edited by slippysloppy at 18/10/10 @ 15:00

  • Ignatius_Cheese #39 2 years ago

    OMFG!!11 Worst. Line-Up. EVA!!

    Kinect is Kinept! Eh? Amirite!??

    Anyone with a Kinect automatically fails at life. TRUTH!

  • layleeloo #40 2 years ago

    @davothediv. "what a load of shite. Gonna be about as accurate as Stevie Wonder is at darts". Hmmmm,

    As I said on a different forum today, I buy all new gaming tech over the last 20 years and will buy this just as I did with Move - then I can make informed opinion on it rather then ill informed rumour, based primarily on either fanboy predudice or just blind ignorance.

    I was sceptical too - so i got off my arse and actually went to one of the roadshows MS did across the country to give it a go - and while it wont be for everyone, I can tell you for one having actually played on it that it is a lot moe accurate than you think it is. Its rather surprising. Perhaps its not for the average gamer, but the average gamers girlfriend for her girlie nights or whatever, but I for one will purchase it and try it in my own home rather than make ill informed opinion. (especially as my GF has some of her girlie mates coming round on the 13th so is there many a man who wouldnt like to sit and watch some hot women jiggling around all night on Dance Central? I think not ;)

    And all you people call yourselves gamers when all you can do is slate gaming tech when you havnt even tried it? Gamers I think you are not. Wannabe Elitists, maybe.
    Edited by layleeloo at 18/10/10 @ 15:15

  • mcwildcard #41 2 years ago

    My that's a very loose use of the word 'games'.

  • JUNKERDENB #42 2 years ago

    The one unanswered question is will it still work if I play kinectimals naked?? Eh?

  • roz123 #43 2 years ago

    You have to laugh at the shitty advert, the only bit of in game footage dosnt seem to have anything to do with what the girl is doing and it looks absolutly shit.

  • Sniper_007 #44 2 years ago

    I'm looking forward to the reviews on the above more than the actual games or hardware itself!!

    I want to be convinced enough to buy it, but am starting to lose hope.... only the thought of the future Steel Battalion and Panzer Dragoon give me the slightest hope! (and I bet they come with "pad" control options??)

  • darkmorgado #45 2 years ago

    What is Kinect's launch line-up?

    Article could have just consisted of one word - "Shite".

  • Das_Ginge #46 2 years ago

    @Layleeloo

    I was much the same till I gave it a go a the Expo. I found Dance central to be excellent, though in the sports games the lag was slightly more obvious - did you find this?

    Also I had the same idea about my Girlfirend and her mates. Now just have to ensure I turn the heating up as well...

    Edited by Das_Ginge at 18/10/10 @ 15:18

  • ocmerius #47 2 years ago

    @layleeloo

    and you actually get negged for having an informed opinion!
    +1 from me

  • layleeloo #48 2 years ago

    @Das_Ginge hahaha - thanks for giving me an idea! haha. I did find sometimes it wasnt as fluid as you would like, but then I didnt find that any more of an issue than i did with my Wii, or Playstation Move. Like anything it is early tech which can only get better with time (hopefully). DC was quite fun and althogh I'm no Wade Robson - like I say, I'm not exactly buying it for me! haha. Kinect Adventus was great and will be really fun for Christmas time. As for the sports and fitness ones - I wont be investing simply becasue I just see them as HD Wii Fit, when if you have Dance Central or Zumba, they will burn as many calories as the dedicated titles will.

    Now, better ensure my thermostat is working for launch then! ;)

  • Sonic_D #49 2 years ago

    My £125 will be spent on a pro-guitar Mustang controller for Rock Band 3 instead methinks ;)

  • Das_Ginge #50 2 years ago

    @Leelayloo

    Bizzarely of all the games it was the Your Shape Fitness one that convinced me that the tech would work, and the other half liked the look of it so I will likely end up with that as well.

    As for the heating idea - Your welcome, anything to improve the 'playing' experiance.

  • chrisjm #51 2 years ago

    the gadget show hands on of one dance game looked ok but not for the price.

  • dirtysteve #52 2 years ago

    Holy shit that's a lot of Sports games! I'm surprised Microsoft licensed so many as launch titles.

  • FogHeart #53 2 years ago

    That's a lot of fitness/sport motion games. We're gonna need to clone Ellie.

  • Geordiemp #54 2 years ago

    Seems the main interest here is oggling totty jumping up and down, maybe they should bring out....

    Kinect pole dancing...

    Kinect Striptease....

    The ultimate adult party game.....

    Better stop there

  • Gromit #55 2 years ago

    Can't see which part glows red. Or will the whole thing just glow red?
    Edited by Gromit at 18/10/10 @ 15:55

  • chessboxer #56 2 years ago

    I think this is Kinect's answer to Killzone 3 and Move:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNOPKYFbPc

  • Sir_TimAlot #57 2 years ago

    oh dear, time to end it all...

    [link url=http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/13952556/Kinect-Get-Fit-With-Mel-B/Product.html
    ]http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/139...[/link]

    /loads gun with one bullet

  • El-Dev #58 2 years ago

    "That's a lot of fitness/sport motion games. We're gonna need to clone Ellie."

    I don't know what would be better; Ellie's review of the games or the comments section afterwards.

  • FogHeart #59 2 years ago

    Looks like Mel B frequents this website, seeing as SOMEONE negged Sir_Timalot. Hello Mel B!

    Oh wait, maybe someone thinks Mel B fitness is a worthy product?

  • feistycheese #60 2 years ago

    Hmmm, Kinect for £150 plus games, or Fallout New Vegas for £40.

    I know which of those my time and money will be getting spent on.

  • darkmorgado #61 2 years ago

    I have to admit that I am kinda tempted to pick up Kinectimals, but that's probably just because I find kitten-like things unbelievably cute.

  • chubster2010 #62 2 years ago

    Fitness-tastic!

  • youhavenomail #63 2 years ago

    Dance Central will probably be a killer app and one or two other launch titles are more appealing than the rushed Move launch line-up, but I still don't have room to play the thing properly so I still hope it fails miserably.

  • ouchio #64 2 years ago

    As expected its all shovelware garbage to be marketed at the most stupid and ignorant brain dead xfactor watching activia eating sheeple.

  • Das_Ginge #65 2 years ago

    @ouchio

    And have you played any of these or are you just throwing down these tidbits of ignorance from your ivor tower of stupidity?

  • Dave52 #66 2 years ago

    That FPS was awesome... :/

  • ouchio #67 2 years ago

    I havent bought a peripheral in 30 years of gaming (bar the CBM64 HDD) and im not going to start now. they can stick this up justin biebers arse. Where it came from.

  • the_th0r #68 2 years ago

    I thought they were going stop making shitty sonic games...

    Tried joy ride and some soccer thingie on an expo and I really really thought it was a terrible gaming experience in all ways imaginable. On the other hand I never liked motion controls but truly it became even worse when they removed the actual controller from my hand. I was actually shocked that they managed to make motion control even worse then it used to be.

    But to be honest, maybe the hardware has potential. Don't know if you people remember the abysmal Wii day one releases. Sure, they had Zelda, but besides that it was mostly ubisoft shovelware... It did get better...

  • geeza2020 #69 2 years ago

    Well, not surprisingly, that launch line-up is totally underwhelming to me. But then again, I'm not Microsofts target audience here, so good luck to them. I just can't see it selling anywhere near the numbers they expect, but I'm also not an industry analyst so maybe there is a huge audience for this, I just don't know a single one of them.

    All in all, meh.

  • Das_Ginge #70 2 years ago

    @ochio

    Impressive - so not even a joystick back in those halcyon days? An extra controller for your console? However just because they arent making games you want to play does that make the games invlalid? Some them will be poor - others will be better and some may even be great. But taring anyone who would consider buying this as as ignornat and brain dead only shows the high quality and objectiveness of your position.

    Well done sir, well done.

    @The_thor

    Was the same - thought the sports one was pretty laggy - Dance central changed my mind however so I think a lot of it may be down to how the lag and accuracy is shown to the user.
    Edited by Das_Ginge at 18/10/10 @ 16:32

  • the_th0r #71 2 years ago

    @Das_Ginge

    Honestly I didn't try the Fitness or Dancing games, as a 220 lbs amateur American football lineman I just felt like I didn't match the demographic spectre they were aiming at.. Well, maybe the fitness game then... :-)

  • Das_Ginge #72 2 years ago

    @Thor

    I am a similar weight though possibly a more dimiutive frame, game was fun however and well worth a look. Didn't try any of the specific fitness related ones though.

  • Incarta #73 2 years ago

    Should be interesting to see if anything decent comes out for it over the next 12 months, cause this launch lineup ain't doing it for me.

  • man.the.king #74 2 years ago

    "The Xbox 360 goes hands-free on 10th November with the launch of Project Natal sorry Kinect."

    That makes me wonder - did EG call Kinect preview "Kinect hands-on"? :)

  • Retroid #75 2 years ago

    Jesus. I couldn't be less interested in any of them.

  • TruWari3r #76 2 years ago

    Not my thing but Dance Central is sure to be a hit.

    Only Kinect game for me would be Child of Eden but no Kinect is needed for that one so I'll wait for a severe price drop before I'll get one. I like it but it's too expensive.

  • The_Beef_Hammer #77 2 years ago

    I am not remotely interested in Kinect. Zero. Zilch. The same goes for Sony's Move.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm all for new tech but in their current state these aren't for me. It'll be good to see what they do with Kinect in the future as it's interesting technology though I fear it'll be just full of shovelware and lapped up by the masses.

    Shame.

  • Retroid #78 2 years ago

    At least Move looks like it has some interesting uses in games. Other than head tracking and RTS I have real trouble working out what I'd want Kinect for.

  • NHDavid #79 2 years ago

    OMG AMAZING!!!!!!

  • drxym #80 2 years ago

    Just as the DS and Wii is sinking beneath the waves of shovelware a new platform emerges for the vendors to hose down in raw sewage.

    The pitiful part is that Microsoft have clearly courted this attention. They don't care any more about making quality games, just the quantity of games. And if they're not careful they're going to reap what they sow - dismal review scores, and a Kinect sales trajectory which starts off well and then plummets straight back into the ground. I'm sure it will sell well initially on hype and saturation advertising but I do not think the tech has any legs at all in its current form.

    BTW I saw a kinect demo on Sunday and fucking awful it looked too. The first kid I saw playing was playing some kind of racing game with steer wheel gestures except he spent the entire game slamming into the wall because it didn't track what he was doing and didn't tell him what to do either. The second had a girl scared rigid and immobile when she realised she had volunteered to play a dance game in the middle of a shopping center with 20 people looking at her.
    Edited by drxym at 18/10/10 @ 17:22

  • StooMonster #81 2 years ago

    On Xmas day my kids will have: Kinect Adventures, Kinect Sports, Kinectimals, and Dance Central.

    That should keep them in the living room for hours on Xmas day, and keep the in-laws and their attempt to be glued to tele all day at bay. :)

    They might even go home early, thus making Kinect worth every penny. =)

  • drxym #82 2 years ago

    @TheNinkyNonk It's a sad world when a Harry Potter game is your most hardcore one...

    It's worse than that since Harry Potter just features a mini game for Kinect and the footage of it shows it to be an execrable rail shooter - monster pops out, perform some gesture, Harry waves wand, monster dies, advance, repeat. It was possibly even worse than the Star Wars kinect demo footage.

  • Numbat #83 2 years ago

    PS1 suited casual and hardcore gamers. Strikes me now Casual buy wii, hardcore PS3 or 360. MS & Sony are desperate to get into casual, so both trying to emulate / beat Ninty. Kinect or Move have no appeal for me, but then neither does a Wii and that's sold in massive numbers.

  • E_Goldstein #84 2 years ago

    Man, i cant believe i was considering not buying this...

    But dance with Mel B. Im getting 3!

    Ziggaziaaaaaarse.

  • layleeloo #85 2 years ago

    @stoomonster "On Xmas day my kids will have: Kinect Adventures, Kinect Sports, Kinectimals, and Dance Central."

    I'm sure they will and they will be very happy. Whether you, I or anyone else who has pre ordered a Kinect device gets one remains to be seen as MS still hasnt confirmed numbers to any suppliers yet. Appaling as it is.

  • Madder-Max #86 2 years ago

    so have nintendo taken over xbox or something. Wii games on xbox which are a few years old. great.

  • Loghorn #87 2 years ago

    @Shikasama: And I can't believe that people are so dumb enough to actually buy this product & people like you that are sticking up for it. It just shows that people don't have any brains at all.

    @drxym: I agree. The only reason why it's "selling out" right now is because it's releasing near the holidays. But when December's over, the popularity & hype of this product will start fading away into obscurity (as it should).

  • Captain_Beardface #88 2 years ago

    I have a PS3 in addition to my gaming PC and although I don't do much console gaming I *was* considering getting the 360 for Kinect - I'm a sucker for shiny new tech. I can't vouch for the quality of the product itself but the launch lineup has firmly convinced me to put that off indefinetly.

    While Move's launch startup also has plenty of crap (or should I rather say, casual games) the wildly enthusiastic comments about Sports Champions and the very sleek way Move was integrated into Heavy Rain convinced me to to order it, when I really wasn't going to. So yeah, it all turned out a bit backwards for me and I can't MS changing my mind anytime soon.

  • drxym #89 2 years ago

    @Loghorn Selling out means nothing without knowing how many were allocated. It would be very easy for MS to say to GAME, "here's 10,000 units please which we hope won't sell out (wink, wink) because we absolutely don't want people to be hyped by reading stories about devices selling out.".

    Without knowing how many units were allocated in the first place, the fact they've sold out is completely meaningless.

  • makeamazing #90 2 years ago

    You have to hand it to MS, they have got some developers on board to support Kinect...maybe its money or the fact they are going to spend alot of money on it... but regardless, there is nothing there that can be remotely classed as a indepth/core game.

  • Kerome #91 2 years ago

    There do seem to be quite a few sports, fitness and dance titles... Everyone trying to 'own' the category, ensuring that no-one does. In a way Nintendo is smarter - no EA fitness games untill after Wii Fit.

    Anyway, I will probably be buying on day 1, there are a few things I like there.

    Edited by Kerome at 19/10/10 @ 05:43

  • SlackMaster #92 2 years ago

    Same problem with the move I feel. More games but shit like the move line up which IMO is why it's sold so poorly.

  • SlackMaster #93 2 years ago

    I assume that the market that brought 'Lips' and the 'Scene it' games would be interested in Kinect. Did either sell all that well?

  • CraigMcG #94 2 years ago

    big pile of shovelware

  • Geminosity #95 2 years ago

    It feels like an episode of "walking with intellectual dinosaurs" in here :p

    Think about it... how long does it take to make something like kinnectimals, dance central and whatnot; activities in a single space or a very small linear space, compared to what we expect from a hardcore title? I'd imagine a big reason we don't see a lot of 'hardcore' (I hate these silly labels) titles is down to simple development time. Not only do you have the complexities of making large maps, tons of models and writing up a passable story but you have to work out the mechanics around a brand new control system that as far as your designs go are untested. There's going to have to be a hell of a lot of prototyping to find out what works and what the limitations of the tech are before a satisfactory method is formed. Be patient and wait. Rome wasn't built in a day, though most of the sandcastles on your nearest beach will have been much faster to construct :3

    Also, I highly doubt 'casual' gamers really buy shovel ware. The idea that they're a bunch of moronic idiots suits people's "us vs them" mentality I'm sure but I heavily suspect shovelware actually sells via non-gamers rather than 'casual' gamers. It's likely the people who don't game trying to buy games as presents for those who have a games console that tend to buy the more dire stuff on a regular basis; most 'casual' types get burned by one bad title and tend to become a lot more cautious in their purchases afterwards. If there's anyone here who works in game retail then it'd be nice to know what their experiences are though as they're on the frontlines of this kind of thing :3

    I for one will be buying dance central because I love Dancing and it looks fun. If you don't like dancing games then fair enough but I'd hardly call that cause to go calling those who do 'idiots' or whatnot. That'd be like people who aren't into FPS games calling people who play Call of Duty/Halo games a bunch of fat, beer-swilling, idiot frat-boys. If all you have is insults about the intelligence of the people who don't agree with you then quite frankly it's a good sign that you need to re-examine your viewpoint. (for the record I like just about every genre of games, even those outside of the electronic variety :3 )

    For those worried about the future of gaming being all motion controlled I ask the simple question of when they last used a PC that didn't have a mouse and keyboard or if they'd noticed that despite a general move to 3D gaming almost every controller still has a d-pad in addition to it's shiny new analogue sticks. New tech rarely pushes out the old unless it's a direct parallel to the existing. Movement controls are likely just going to be an additional nub on the controller as we move onwards, at least for the near future anyways. As others have mentioned expect to see the option for head-tracking added to FPS games and other small additons to your controller gaming. The full body stuff will likely be relegated to the genres that it fits best like dancing games and possibly boxing styled games. I doubt we're suddenly going to see FPS games where you jog on the spot or a streetfighter where you have to throw actual hadoukens becoming the mainstream :p

  • drxym #96 2 years ago

    @Geminosity Think about it... how long does it take to make something like kinnectimals, dance central and whatnot; activities in a single space or a very small linear space, compared to what we expect from a hardcore title? I'd imagine a big reason we don't see a lot of 'hardcore' (I hate these silly labels) titles is down to simple development time.

    That is a lame excuse. Look at other launch lineups and you will find a mix of casual and hardcore titles. If we were to apply the excuse that devs "didn't have time" then the Wii would not have had Zelda, the 360 would not have had COD2, and the PS3 would not have had Resistance.

    Kinect has been in development for enough time to expect much more from it.

    Also, I highly doubt 'casual' gamers really buy shovel ware.

    They do buy shovelware. Go look at a Wii or DS shelf in any game store. Look at the top 20 list. 8 year olds, mums and grannies buy generic crap because it has pretty pictures on the box, or they saw it on TV, or they got confused by the multitude of similar games (party, dance, animals, fitness etc.), or because "little Susie likes animals". We have also heard from various devs that it is a waste of time sinking money in hardcore Wii titles because very few make their money back unless they're made by Nintendo. The shelves reflect consumer's buying habits, nothing more, nothing less.

    It is very, very clear that Kinect is also aiming at the shovelware demographic. The launch lineup is indicative of that. In some sense Microsoft have no choice because the tech paints them into that corner. It would be extremely difficult to produce a compelling hardcore title where people are required to wave their arms around.

    So if you want to stand under an avalanche of shit, then Kinect will be the way to go. The Wii survived despite the shovelware because there was the odd gem to pluck out of this mess. Kinect sure as hell ensure likewise or it will be lucky to survive a year as a viable "platform" given the cost of entry.

    Edited by drxym at 20/10/10 @ 10:06

  • Geminosity #97 2 years ago

    @drxym
    That is a lame excuse. Look at other launch lineups and you will find a mix of casual and hardcore titles. If we were to apply the excuse that devs "didn't have time" then the Wii would not have had Zelda, the 360 would not have had COD2, and the PS3 would not have had Resistance.

    Kinect has been in development for enough time to expect much more from it.


    Excuse? Uh... Zelda was a first party title for a start and comparing anyone to nintendo when it comes to making games rarely ends well. Launch titles for anything bar the Wii are using an already established control system, which was the whole point of what I said and you quoted, so they're not really relevant :3
    The main chunk of this will be working out and prototyping the new control methods, which will be more difficult than even the wii's as it's not just tracking a single object but all the various parts of the player themselves. Once that's established THEN you can start really going to town on the levels and whatnot (how combat works and how the player moves make a huge difference to the constraints of what you can get away with in a level or what the badguys are capable of after all)



    They do buy shovelware. Go look at a Wii or DS shelf in any game store. Look at the top 20 list. 8 year olds, mums and grannies buy generic crap because it has pretty pictures on the box, or they saw it on TV, or they got confused by the multitude of similar games (party, dance, animals, fitness etc.), or because "little Susie likes animals". We have also heard from various devs that it is a waste of time sinking money in hardcore Wii titles because very few make their money back unless they're made by Nintendo. The shelves reflect consumer's buying habits, nothing more, nothing less.

    ...

    So if you want to stand under an avalanche of shit, then Kinect will be the way to go. The Wii survived despite the shovelware because there was the odd gem to pluck out of this mess. Kinect sure as hell ensure likewise or it will be lucky to survive a year as a viable "platform" given the cost of entry.


    The use of emotive language is nice if you're trying to push propaganda (avalanche of shit? lovely imagery :p ) but it doesn't sway the argument. The bit I bolded basically highlights that you're making the very common mistake of lumping people who don't game buying presents in with those who do game. Though anecdotal, the people I've noted who do play games, even casually, very quiickly learn to not be confused by 'pretty boxes' or genres and many don't even get that far, they just stick to names they know like Nintendo's titles. If they don't understand a genre they just don't buy it.
    Are you someone who works in retail and is saying this from experience, are you someone who actually knows casual gamers and paid attention to what titles they own and why they bought them or are you just going off what's in your head? :3

    As for non-casual titles not selling on the wii, are mario kart or smash bros casual? Are they bad games? All I know is that the supposedly clueless casual gamers combined with the so-called savvy hardcore gamers made them both sell like gang-busters. Also, as I said before, casuals tend to stick to names they know; it's the hardcore players who are more likely to do the legwork to find out about non-nintendo titles and branch out.

    Whenever most third-party companies make a 'hardcore' title on the wii they tend to make a game that's really just a normal controller game with wii controls tacked on in the place of button presses. Even some of those that aren't like the FPS games that hit for it tend to be available on other platforms with better graphics or are just generally FPSes that wouldn't sell well on the other two consoles anyway as they're fairly mediocre (red steel 1 for example)
    Generallly if you're going to make a button game you're better off making it on another console (stuff like smash bros is exclusive but it's designed to really play on a classic controller, something few third party games bother to really consider properly... thank heck Monster Hunter Tri did though :3 ).
    Hardcore games on the Wii also, ironically, have the stigma of being on the wii among their target audience. There's a lot of self-proclaimed hardcore folk who don't have a Wii or prefer to complain that a title is on the wii instead of a 'hardcore console' rather than buy it. Sadly it's kind of a lost cause in that respect :p

    But hey, you told me to look at the top sellers in game. I can't do that from here so I just browsed the top sellers lists in their game.co.uk website and checked a few other locations. What's there? Mario Bros. Metroid. Pokemon. Professor Layton. Fifa. Final Fantasy. Last Window. Rune Factory. Dragon Quest.
    Oh yeah, that's an avalanche of 'shallow 'casual' shit right there just on the DS alone. GAMING IS DOOMED! :p

    Crazy thought but how about not letting the constant hyperbole on the internet get to you. Take a deep breath, look at the full picture instead of focussing and amplifying the negatives and you'll quickly realise that the grass wasn't greener when you were young and you didn't really have to go uphill both ways to reach your locale game store. We're not in a retirement home here folks... don't go diving into your graves prematurely :3

    There's shovelware, sure, but there's always been shovelware. Did everyone forget how many god-awful games were on the SNES, Playstation, Playstation2 and whatnot? There's about 9 stinkers to ever 1 good game but people didn't care because they paid attention to what really matters; the stuff you actually bought. Go find an old edition of CVG or something and just look through the games they reviewed: you might not remember but I clearly recall countless downright awful games being torn apart in ye olde magazines (y'know... back before the internet. When everything was on dead-tree format :p )

    All that aside though, I do agree that the steep price of the kinnect won't help it. It may well flop on that single element alone :3
    Edited by Geminosity at 20/10/10 @ 12:16

  • drxym #98 2 years ago

    @Germinosity, All you have to do is look at a shelf of Wii or DS titles in GAME to see that I'm right. Every platform has shovelware but a disproportionately high amount is indicative of an audience who cannot tell a good game from a bad game. It's not propaganda, it's reality. Various industry figures are also on the public record saying as much about the Wii saying that it's a waste of time to develop full titles because they won't sell very well.

    It is clear Microsoft are going for the same demographic with cheap and nasty shovelware titles. They have even made the box branding more gaudy to make them more eye catching and attractive to the kiddies.

    I don't know why you distinguish between 1st and 3rd party launch titles or the "control system". Neither COD2 nor Resistance were 1st party titles yet they managed to be exemplary launch titles. As for controls, Natal was announced to the public 20 months ago and devs certainly had it much longer, or at least the technical specs.

    There really isn't much excuse for this launch lineup. Either Microsoft are cynically going after the shovelware demographic (i.e. the mainstream), or the device just isn't capable of anything better.


    Edited by drxym at 20/10/10 @ 13:52

  • Geminosity #99 2 years ago

    I'm quickly realiising this is an argument that you're not going to budge on so it might be better if we simply agree to disagree, else we'll end up stuck in one of those horrible internet arguments where both sides get sick of repeating themselves and start making it personal, which doesn't help anyone :3

    I still stand by what I said though and feel I've given enough details to sufficiently get my points across to those who would hear them :D

    ~gives drxym a cookie~