Kinect's sitting down woe finally over

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 15 October, 2010

MS switches base node to back of neck.

Concern over Kinect's ability to detect players sat down on sofas has been eradicated after Microsoft updated the software behind the tech, Eurogamer can reveal.

Kinect's much-discussed difficulty detecting sitting and lying down players was caused by it setting the base node used to create skeletal models at the bottom of the spine.

When players were sat down with their knees raised in front of their pelvis, Kinect encountered problems.

In July Microsoft insisted that Kinect could recognise players who were sitting down, despite a recent developer comment to the contrary.

This evening Eurogamer can reveal how Microsoft has made this possible.

The console manufacturer updated the software used by developers to make sense of the information gathered by the Kinect sensor so that the base node was switched from the bottom of the spine to the back of the neck, according to a developer with more experience working with the technology than most.

"It means that should the bottom of your torso get confused with the sofa, because your bum and your legs are enveloped inside the sofa, it doesn't matter because your hands and arms are still working," Blitz Games Studios co-founder and Chief Technical Officer Andrew Oliver told Eurogamer. "You can do most actions."

"A few months ago they changed stuff around. A lot of developers were like, 'Oh my God! Everything's broken,' because all the nodes were moved.

"But then it was like, 'Oh, actually, this is more logical.'"

While the changes made to Kinect's software libraries have come too late to be used in the motion-sensing add-on's launch line-up, "games going forward won't have a problem," Oliver reassured.

Before the update, developers who wanted to create a game in which players sit or lie down would have had to create the software to do it internally. Blitz was one such developer.

"It was one of those ones where it was probably borderline whether Microsoft would have fixed it for you or not," Oliver revealed.

"We were talking to them last February saying, 'Are you ever going to fix the libraries so it will work on the floor?' And they went, 'Oh come on, that's lying on the floor. That's so rare. We've got other issues we're dealing with.' We said, 'Okay, we'll go write it ourselves.'"

Blitz has two Kinect-enabled games ready to launch: fitness title The Biggest Loser and karaoke movie game Yoostar 2.

Blitz created its own solution for Kinect to detect players lying on the floor because The Biggest Loser asks players to perform sit-ups and push-ups.

Blitz has "several" Kinect-enabled games in development.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (41) Latest comment 4 months ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • coolbritannia #1 1 year ago

    Hmm, making such a big change so close to launch does not bode well IMO. Seems rushed or just not thought through properly to me.

  • NimbusTLD #2 1 year ago

    Read the article coolbritannia: While the changes made to Kinect's software libraries have come too late to be used in the motion-sensing add-on's launch line-up, "games going forward won't have a problem,"

    What I don't get is if these changes have come a few months ago, why is this only coming out now? And how come it's not Microsoft's PR machine coming out with it?

  • weejok #3 1 year ago

    Does that mean some kinect games will have a sticker "Can be played sat on your arse" ?? That's how I like to play my games anyway ;)

  • FutureDave #4 1 year ago

    Great, I'll be able to play dance and fitness games sitting down.

  • Bremenacht #5 1 year ago

    Glad to hear they've fixed Kinept's problem from the waist down, but what about the deadzone from the neck up?

  • jonbwfc #6 1 year ago

    I think they're about to be told in no uncertain terms by the consumer where to stick their base node...

  • asphaltcowboy #7 1 year ago

    I enjoyed Kinect at the Expo (Dance Central and Kinect Adventures). Joy Ride was pretty duff though. Not nearly responsive enough!

  • MrLovePump #8 1 year ago

    Cool get some work done on the lag (which is nowhere near as bad as everyone likes to make out) and we will be sorted

    It speaks volumes that tons of devs are working on stuff for it. The launch games are always rush job cash INS anyway so let's see what the future brings

  • FogHeart #9 1 year ago

    So developing for Kinect was a pain in the arse, so they switched the node and now it's....

  • funkateer #10 1 year ago

    "Hmm, making such a big change so close to launch does not bode well IMO. Seems rushed or just not thought through properly to me."

    I think I'll just assume that MS have a proper QA process in place for their software. I mean why would added functionality taking time suggest that it's rushed?

  • FogHeart #11 1 year ago

    They changed it a few months ago according to this article. We're just finding that out now. Nothing has changed recently - nothing this drastic at least!

  • Spydy #12 1 year ago

    At what point did they ask for developer feedback during the Kinect development process? Sounds like they didn't until they were FORCED to listen after devs complained of basic, fundamental issues.

    Laughable.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #13 1 year ago

    And MS wouldn't want to make a big deal of it because a) it doesn't look good to be seen (whatever the truth) to be changing things "last minute", b) the party line was always "games that want you to sit down can cope with you sitting down", and c) only whiny internet nerds who post comments on Eurogamer articles care about stuff like this anyway ;-)

  • Gambit1977 #14 1 year ago

    As long as you select 'sitting' in the main menu no doubt. I don't think I've ever been so cynical about new tech. I'll see soon enough.

  • Kill_Crazy #15 1 year ago

    "Kinect is due to be released 4/11/2010 on Xbox 360. Parents! If you think your kid might be interested in Kinect, get them to check it out on Megaton.co.uk, our gaming site for kids."

    Sounds like EG know what it's good for.

  • Fab4 #16 1 year ago

    Is there a software fix to increase the size of my living room?

  • scottycam #17 1 year ago

    Microsoft do have a habit of messing up 1st gen tech by not listening to people.

    Think I still have the classic massive Xbox control pad. Its almost the same size as the Wii console.

  • Miths #18 1 year ago

    @Bremenacht "Glad to hear they've fixed Kinept's problem from the waist down, but what about the deadzone from the neck up?"

    I believe that's a problem with a very large percentage of the human species in general, and entirely unrelated to Kinect or any other console peripherals :).

  • lockload #19 1 year ago

    Lets be clear the api has different versions, version 1 does not provide the function to detect sitting down but the developer can write their own interface layer on top of version 1 like blitz did

    From version 1.1 onwards this feature is in the api, games can be aimed at either version

    Any game aimed at launch that needs sitting or lying down will have already created their own interface layer, so theres no need to switch to the newer api
    Edited by 3 at 15/10/10 @ 20:00

  • bad09 #20 1 year ago

    Oh sit down,
    Oh sit down,
    Oh sit down,
    Sit down next to me...

  • hahayou #21 1 year ago

    Base of your spine? So, not only will you have a camera in your living room staring endlessly and implacably at you, but that camera will be locked-on to your bathing suit area.

    To be fair, the Move camera stares at balls too.

  • 32768Colours #22 1 year ago

    Has anyone seen those developer diaries on XBL? They pretty much addressed all these points and were quite interesting. They mention a few simple things to improve the Kinect experience: tie long hair back so it recognises your neck, wear tight fitting clothes for better skeletal detection, keep your floor tidy, evenly light your room, keep Kinect a reasonable distance away from sound sources, have around 6 to 8(!) feet of space between you and Kinect and another 3 to 4 feet each side per player, and if you're sat down don't slump back in your chair; it's better if you sit up straight.

    Now, conscious as I am that I might sound like I'm being a bit "glass is half-empty" here, on the plus side they do also say that once all that stuff's set up - you've had your hair done, dressed like David Lee Roth, hoovered, changed your light bulbs, remodelled your living room, and bought a kneeling posture chair - you can get on with playing the games, because "that's where the magic really happens"!

  • zedzee #23 1 year ago

    Is it Kinect or Inept?

  • Negotiator #24 1 year ago

    This device just gets better and better, I have 3 of these pre-ordered for me, myself and I, brilliant.

  • IronGiant #25 1 year ago

    Nobody actually cares.. apart from the millions that have already pre-ordered. Yeah, right that's why there's a stock shortage.. ahem.

  • Moribundman #26 1 year ago

    They've been beta testing for several months now. The beta testers have been sent Kinect units in the post and have had them in their houses for a couple of months, and firmware updates have been released pretty much every other day. It's not exactly a rush job to fix something, although this is a hugely welcome development. Considering anyone with less than two/two and a half metres of space will have their feet obscured from half way down the shin, this should stop Kinect spazzing peoples feet up and may actually make it viable for people with small living rooms or bedrooms...

  • drumbaby #27 1 year ago

    Can they fix the 'need 1 acre to play it' node next?

  • phAge #28 1 year ago

    Heh.

    MS makes product with technical issue. People bitch.
    MS fixes said technical issue. People bitch anyway.

    MS makes product that people think will bomb. People LAWL.
    MS product turns out to sell extremely well. People make up hilariously stupid theories about MS deliberately holding back stock.

    In short: MS makes product. People act like fucktards.

    Depressing, really.

  • fragjam #29 1 year ago

    Good. Now someone can make Kinect Kama Sutra. Ahem.

  • Penguinzoot #30 1 year ago

    ^^
    /preorders ;)

  • telboy007 #31 1 year ago

    Can it track me fapping on the sofa now then? If so I'm in, Karma Sutra me up baby... what it doesn't have a single player campaign? I'm out.

  • Ryze #32 1 year ago

    Sorry guys. No Sale after this nonsense. I'll consider when I can get one for £60-£80 with Dance Central, if Dance Central scores 8 and above across a few websites excluding IGN and Ellie reviews.

  • Sunyavadin #33 1 year ago

    Glad to hear they've fixed Kinept's problem from the waist down, but what about the deadzone from the neck up?

    I hear that's a "feature" of kinect buyers.

  • KingPepper41 #34 1 year ago

    Kinect what is it good for........absolutely nothing, say it again.....Hurrrrr
    Microsoft what are they good for.........absolutely nothing.
    But seriously, i witnessed some kid & a lady demonstrating the system for the first time in my local Game store here in the UK.
    They were playing some football game, it looked like a brilliant idea, but when the people threw there legs forward to kick the ball, it didn't even respond on screen & that was in a space especially set up for Kinect, god knows how its going to work in peoples homes with furniture all around, it was just a joke, i really was hoping for this to be great......but sadly it sucks.
    And yes i do own a XBOX360 with Live (Gold), but also i have a PS3 with the Move motion controller, just brilliant.....solidly made and even the games that were launch titles worked first time, and are very additive, if my shoulder is anything to go by, man it hurts.....it takes me 2 days to recover from a session of Move. LOL

  • DDevil #35 1 year ago

    "Glad to hear they've fixed Kinept's problem from the waist down, but what about the deadzone from the neck up? "

    I don't know Brem... You seem to manage.

  • GrizzleBoy #36 1 year ago

    Awesome.

    Now I can play that awesome non party/fitness game title that I've been waiting to play!

    What was it called again???

    Uhmmmmmmm............uhhhhhhhhhhhh............Kinect......Ad ventures?? No no thats just a rip off of the arcade game where you ride a pedal powered inflatable raft....

    Wait, are there ANY non party/fitness titles for this thing at all?

    The sitting down discussion was only really relevant when people thought games that would atually make sense to play sitting down would be released for the Kinekt. (My "eks" and "see" keys just died on my keyboard :'(".

    Now its quite obvious that the Kinekt is geared for a kompletely different audiense that doesn't really kare two ways, its kinda irrelevant.

    Edited by 1 at 17/10/10 @ 23:52

  • tancredo #37 1 year ago

    We just went from Kinect kama Sutra to Kinect Cunnilingus. Both of them are fun to play.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #38 1 year ago

    To be fair, they did say they would be constantly updating the software so I'm pleased with this. It bodes well for further improvements.

    Not sure if Kinect will ever make the comments section happy. Would you rather than refused to make any further changes after launch? It's clearly not designed for the majority of you but I'm happy for them to continue to update it to the point where I might be interested in getting one.

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