Machinarium - full game from Amanita Design (Samorost) Page 5

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  • Deleted user 21 November 2009 22:24:11
    kalel wrote:
    I always think true gamers almost have a duty to buy things like this.


    We should definitely support it. There's more charm and imagination in this than the last 10 years of EA's back catalogue.
  • FightingMongoose 19 Dec 2009 15:08:26 502 posts
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    Just to let people know who haven't played or experienced the game before (like me), it is on sale from the Amanita website for a total of £6.91 along with Somorost2.
  • Tomo 20 Dec 2009 13:06:29 13,946 posts
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    Picked the deal up last night and started playing Machinarium. It's absolutely wonderful. I loved Samorost and the sequel, but this is everything I hoped for - everything on a larger scale. The artwork and music are beautiful, the story is intriguing, the controls are good and the characters have delightful expressions only using a few nods and bleeps to convey them. Love it. Can't wait to go back to it later.
  • Deleted user 19 January 2010 04:05:11
    http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=5435
  • Phattso Moderator 19 Jan 2010 11:30:41 13,571 posts
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    disc wrote:
    What a nice photo at the end.

    Yeah, although I'm sure social services will have something to say about seven dads and a baby. ;)
  • lucky_jim 24 Jan 2010 00:34:50 5,326 posts
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    So did everyone enjoy this? I'm downloading the demo now, it looks right up my street. I'm really enjoying Axel and Pixel on the 360, which has a very similar style, and the Samorost games have been on my "to play" list for far too long.

    Anybody who likes the style should spend a bit of time looking into Czech animation. The Czechs have a really long and proud history in the field, and that messy, surreal style is a bit of a recurring theme. I remember somebody lambasting Axel and Pixel for "ripping off" Samorost's style (might have been on here actually) and I wanted to reach into the screen and slap them.

    Edit: I should have said that what provoked me to try it out was the interview with Jakob Dvorsky in this month's gamesTM, which mentions his animation background and the influence of Czech and other eastern European animation on his art style. It's worth a read.
  • lucky_jim 24 Jan 2010 12:27:38 5,326 posts
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    Wow, this game really is a bit special, isn't it?
  • Trafford 24 Jan 2010 12:37:41 5,884 posts
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    It is,I played it with my 2 kids who loved it also.
    To be honest the puzzles were to hard for me ,but using the solutions was part of the fun for us.
  • lucky_jim 24 Jan 2010 12:51:17 5,326 posts
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    If your kids enjoyed it Trafford, they might like the BBC's Questionaut mini-game, as it was commissioned from the same developers by the Beeb. It's a quiz, but with the same distinctive eastern European style. As it's aimed at kids it won't be of too much interest to us lot, apart from aesthetically, but your nippers might enjoy it.
  • Bremenacht 24 Jan 2010 14:09:09 18,761 posts
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    lucky_jim wrote:
    Edit: I should have said that what provoked me to try it out was the interview with Jakob Dvorsky in this month's gamesTM, which mentions his animation background and the influence of Czech and other eastern European animation on his art style. It's worth a read.
    I think the BBC went through a phase in the '70s of showing Czech animation (maybe dubbed?) on kids TV. It was very different to everything else that was on.
  • lucky_jim 24 Jan 2010 14:14:45 5,326 posts
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    That's a bit before my time, but I grew up watching a lot of Czech animation when visiting my grandparents in Prague during the 1980s. Czech animation has actually had quite an influence on some areas of Japanese animation which not many people are aware of. I've just sent an email to gamesTM cos I thought the writer of the article might be interested, and it's a quiet Sunday so I've got nothing better to do! It included this paragraph which might be of interest to people here:

    The legendary JiřŪ Trnka once took as a student one Kihachiro Kawamoto, the famous Japanese puppeteer cutting an unlikely figure in communist Czechoslovakia in the cold winter of 1963. There began a healthy mutual respect between the Czech and Japanese animation industries, with occasional glimpses of the other's styles to be found in whichever country's work you're looking at. Animation fans should take a look at Kawamoto's 2005 beautiful stop-motion film Shisha No Sho ("Book of the Dead"), and then some of JiřŪ Trnka's work, such as his 1959 adaptation of A Midsummer Night's Dream (Sen noci svatojŠnskť). There is more than one English language version of the work available, but the one dubbed by Richard Burton in 1961 is the best. There is also a DVD of Kawamoto's short films called Kihachiro Kawamoto's Film Works which includes English subtitles, and the Czech influences can be quite clearly seen. Many of the themes Kawamoto addresses can be seen in the work of animators much more familiar to us in the west, such as Hayao Miyazaki. Ever wonder what made Miyazaki come up with the beautifully realised central European-style towns found in things like Howl's Moving Castle? Well now you know. Come to think of it, Howl's castle itself wouldn't look too out-of-place in Samorost or Axel and Pixel!

    I've derailed the thread enough for now, but if anybody's interested in exploring the field further, I figured that might help.
  • lucky_jim 24 Jan 2010 16:46:24 5,326 posts
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    I'll get the thread back on track by pointing out that Mamba Games are bringing out a boxed retail release of Machinarium. It's £16.99 and comes with a soundtrack CD, an A3 poster, and an art book. It can be ordered from here.
  • wizbob 17 Feb 2010 17:12:19 781 posts
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    Great! I think I'll pick up the boxed version.

    Phattso wrote:
    Are you serious or are you on the wind up? Let's have a monitor around for every game that might have shite (read: no) handling of variable resolution shall we?

    As I've said, a few times now, it's not the end of the world for me. But it is souring what has otherwise been a very pleasant experience and I hope the dude ditches Flash for his next project. And that's where all this started: people saying there was nothing wrong with using Flash. When there is. In both controls and visuals.

    That's the last I have to say on it anyway. Back to the puzzling. :)

    This is a classic case of someone commenting outside of their competency. Of course Flash can scale the graphics, but bitmapped graphics look best at their native resolution.

    If you want to jump on the Flash-bashing bandwagon then complain about the security model or something. Chances are this game and Samorost would never have been made if Flash didn't exist.
  • Phattso Moderator 17 Feb 2010 17:30:40 13,571 posts
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    wizbob wrote:
    This is a classic case of someone commenting outside of their competency. Of course Flash can scale the graphics, but bitmapped graphics look best at their native resolution.

    If you'd bothered to read some more before trying to score Internet Points I make much the same point about 1:1 pixels.

    And it's very much in my competency - I write rendering engines, and I scale high quality high detail art on a daily basis. The way Flash handles it is far from acceptable to me. A custom engine could quite possibly have scaled the art onto a higher res display without sacrificing too much detail.

    At no point did I suggest Flash can't scale (the sprites in the game are scaled throughout - with noticeably poor results) only that it can't be used to scale up to higher monitor resolutions precisely because it's a solution built for speed (for crappy PCs and web browsers) and not meant for quality results and would therefore ruin the look of the game.

    So my point stands: Machinarium doesn't make best use of extremely high monitor resolution as a result of its flash heritage. In your mind, for some curious reason, this is clearly an attack on Flash and all it stands for. Wrong tool for the job, in my opinion. You disagree. Fair enough.

    Chances are this game and Samorost would never have been made if Flash didn't exist.

    Yes - I also made this point earlier in the thread. Doesn't change the fact that Flash has imposed some clear limits in terms of rendering and controls in the game though.

    Not that it matters, it was a relatively small issue for me in an otherwise awesome experience.
  • wizbob 17 Feb 2010 17:49:48 781 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    And it's very much in my competency - I write rendering engines, and I scale high quality high detail art on a daily basis. The way Flash handles it is far from acceptable to me. A custom engine could quite possibly have scaled the art onto a higher res display without sacrificing too much detail.

    At no point did I suggest Flash can't scale (the sprites in the game are scaled throughout - with noticeably poor results) only that it can't be used to scale up to higher monitor resolutions precisely because it's a solution built for speed (for crappy PCs and web browsers) and not meant for quality results and would therefore ruin the look of the game.

    So my point stands: Machinarium doesn't make best use of extremely high monitor resolution as a result of its flash heritage.

    They could have used Pixel Bender or written their own scaling implementation and manipulated the bitmaps directly in AS3. But they probably didn't because they're interested in animation and gameplay, rather than writing their own custom solution.

    In your mind, for some curious reason, this is clearly an attack on Flash and all it stands for. Wrong tool for the job, in my opinion. You disagree. Fair enough.

    This is exactly why your comment annoyed me, it was clearly a direct attack on Flash; you said;

    I hope the dude ditches Flash for his next project. And that's where all this started: people saying there was nothing wrong with using Flash. When there is. In both controls and visuals.

    Doesn't change the fact that Flash has imposed some clear limits in terms of rendering and controls in the game though.

    With all respect for your coding experience, this is why I think your comment was an incompetent attack on Amanita and Flash.

    Not that it matters, it was a relatively small issue for me in an otherwise awesome experience.

    Well, that's the main thing. I really liked the demo too.
  • Phattso Moderator 17 Feb 2010 18:07:21 13,571 posts
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    Well yes - I do think Flash is a poor choice for game development if you have enough knowledge to write your own engine or cash to license someone elses (and a lot of teams that start in Flash move on to custom or licensed engines as soon as they can - this isn't coincidental). So I guess on that level you're right, it was an attack. Although that's all rather dramatic, and your need to defend it suggests a vested interest (in much the same way as I have a vested interest in custom engines :)).

    Flash is a bit like Direct X. The later versions (once they've bolted on enough functionality and sorted the API) are excellent, but the journey to get there and the investment to stay current is a mare.

    If you believe that Flash is a superior solution for games development in general, then that's your right of course. This probably isn't the thread for it though - I'd be interested in talking more over PM if you'd like. I don't meet many Flash advocates in my line of work, so it would be nice to hear more from that perspective. :)


    So, in conclusion: Machinarium rocks. Everyone should play it.
  • wizbob 17 Feb 2010 18:18:40 781 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    So I guess on that level you're right, it was an attack. Although that's all rather dramatic, and your need to defend it suggests a vested interest (in much the same way as I have a vested interest in custom engines :)).

    Touchť! I am indeed a Flash developer and so very few games are produced commercially in Flash.
    I agree that anything more complicated than Machinarium probably needs a proper engine, but nothing beats Flash for getting artists involved in production and prototyping.
  • Deleted user 1 April 2010 06:54:15
    I've been playing this for the past few days and whilst I'm loving the art design, score and most of the puzzles, some of the controls are hard to pull off.

    In particular the cursor rotating sections, at the arcade now, its a nightmare trying to make it work when it resets on my laptop if I move away from the wheel. It just about works when I turn fullscreen off but either its a flash issue or it hasn't been tested properly for those not using a mouse, at least from my experience. Hope nothing else like that pops up later on.
  • ecu 10 Apr 2010 17:51:44 77,039 posts
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    Microsoft says no to XBLA release
  • HiddenAway 11 Apr 2010 00:16:22 14,923 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    Microsoft says no to XBLA release

    Microsoft have refused to publish the game. The game hasn't been denied for XBLA outright. Amanita can still ask around for third-party publishers or even self-publish.

    Microsoft just refused Machinarium for XBLA after a half year of talking with them. They like the game and know it would be very successful on their platform, but they donít want to support games which arenít Microsoft exclusives. Machinarium isnít, since weíve also released versions for Mac and Linux. We have another option to approach some big publisher to bring the game to XBLA, which is quite absurd to do and lose maybe a large part of revenue because of that.

    The basic results of a 3 page NeoGAF thread ;-)

    On Twitter: @HiddenAway1

  • ecu 11 Apr 2010 00:27:56 77,039 posts
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    Sony would probably publish it, they'd have better luck with PSN.
  • HiddenAway 11 Apr 2010 00:33:03 14,923 posts
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    You have a point. They're just desperate for games at the moment ;-)

    On Twitter: @HiddenAway1

  • Deleted user 12 April 2010 07:31:50
    Not sure why its even needed on consoles, apart from sorting out some of the interface issues (the rotating parts and wire bit I mentioned on the previous page) being flash based anyone can play it.

    Completed this a couple days ago, whilst I really like the art design, music and several of the more inventive puzzles, it falls away somewhat, the city unexplored, the narrative feeling unresolved and the end section a bit of an anti-climax.

    I don't think indie chic and a small team alone can excuse these issues in the way that many reviewers seem to have done.
  • ecu 12 Apr 2010 22:52:46 77,039 posts
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    It's been submitted to Sony now.
  • Deleted user 13 May 2010 13:34:02
    Just got it through the post. The collectors edition - box is lovely.
  • Deleted user 14 May 2010 19:36:17
    That ** in a row puzzle is killing me. What is even more annoying is that I've already bloody done it, managed it the third time as my girlfriend is playing it and she is ahead of me but was stuck at that bit. And now I can't do it for my one! :(
  • Deleted user 14 May 2010 19:42:56
    Heh, done it after my rant.
  • Blerk Moderator 6 Aug 2010 14:52:41 48,225 posts
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    The full game plus soundtrack for all three platforms is £3.26 (+ VAT) until August 12th from their web site.
  • MightyMouse 6 Aug 2010 15:07:31 1,133 posts
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    Why did I think that I'd be able to see anything on the website of a flash developer when I'm using an iPhone?
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