Exercise advice and weight loss Page 209

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  • sport 5 Jan 2013 13:10:33 12,723 posts
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    By 5 they should be on curlz!
  • CosmicFuzz 5 Jan 2013 16:28:55 24,297 posts
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    Did 5k in 27 mins on level 5. Was pretty knackered at the end! Am going to add it into my regime once a week to see how it goes.

    Our month-long focus on indie games starts with my look at the PS4's best game (still): Resogun!

  • heyyo 6 Jan 2013 17:11:07 14,373 posts
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    Decided to try doing front squats today, loaded up my (pitiful) usual back squat weight on the bar & placed that bitch across my shoulders - 2 reps later I was overcome with that sense of dread you only get on leg day.

    Horrible crazy excellent exercise, reading up on it now appears that front squats stresses quads more than reg. squats so next time i'll be sure to drink 3 extra protein shakes before. Or reduce the weight
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 18:38:18 7,315 posts
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    @heyyo

    What weight you using for squatting? Front squat is usually lighter amount than what you can back squat. Hits your mid section more than a back squat as well. More comfortable going deep with those than back squats. Good training for squat cleans and clean and jerk. Also how you holding the bar? Zercher style, arms crossed or Olympic style ?
  • heyyo 6 Jan 2013 19:42:31 14,373 posts
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    I back squat my bodyweight on the bar, ~60kg for 3x8-10 reps but have to drop the weight on final set to get 8. Although it took forever I feel my back squat form is finally reasonable now hence decision to give fronts a try.

    I used the arms crossed style, I may try Zercher style next time as the way I had it meant I couldn't look down to see the positioning of my feet.

    What weight do you recommend I front squat? I think my elbows will burst if I hold above 20kg zercher style...but relatively light weight is definitely needed, so a beneficial limitation perhaps!
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 20:42:04 7,315 posts
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    You are doing well with the weight you are squatting. Make sure you are going at least a parallel depth. Only go deeper if your flexibility allows it. I can go deeper quite comfortable on front squats than back squats. Well I'm not near my bodyweight at squatting yet. Only doing 90kg on my back squats. Just doing small increases every week, roughly 5 -10 kg rise each week.

    Started front squatting with just the bar, then built it up slowly to about 75kg. So just work with the bar for form, get your body and yourself used to it. Then add weight each set. Do your reps if comfortable add some more for next set and repeat.

    I'm on a simple 5x5 3 day a week strength program, each day has squats :) 2 back squats days 1 front squat day. Is a ramped set system so weight increases with small amounts after each completed set.

    Example from Friday
    Squat 70,75,80,85,90. So my next squat day I will start at 75 instead of 70. Let your body catch up with your small gains. Small steady gains over time gives your body plenty of time to repair and grow. Also is a better feeling as you will be doing new PRs quite often. Instead of throwing on a whole load of extra weight, doing a couple of shitty form reps, can't complete your set then maybe getting an injury which could set you back some weeks. Trust me I have been there before :). Damaged hip muscles, took few weeks off. Rethought my plan, wheeled in the ego, went back to bar for everything and restarted. Started training again at beginning of December and I am lifting more than the weight which caused the injury. Slow and steady and you will be lifting that heavy weight with ease and looking at moving onto the next weight

    Will switch to a 5x8 later on or a pull day/push day/ explosive power,complex routine day spilt

    Is good to learn how to front squat like this

    http://nxtlevelnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/helen_front_squat_501.jpg

    The bar is resting firmly on your shoulders, the bar is just resting gently on the hands. With the elbows high and chest high you form a stable shelf to carry the bar across your shoulders

    When you get to do power cleans(catch the bar at partial squat depth) and squat cleans(catch at full squat depth) you have to catch the bar like that on your shoulders.

    Learning those explosive movements help transfer across to your deadlifts. Have noticed some gains to my deadlift speed doing these. Along with Farmers walk to help with grip strength

    Edited by fletch7100 at 21:34:02 06-01-2013

    Edited by fletch7100 at 21:37:32 06-01-2013
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 21:11:55 7,315 posts
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    @heyyo

    What's your training plan/goals?
  • heyyo 6 Jan 2013 22:00:39 14,373 posts
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    Cheers, I go "ass to grass" on my squats because it gives me a second's rest when i'm fully squat down, before I push up again :) I use dress shoes to squat with so that heel enhances my flexibility. I'd probably fall over backwards with any weight otherwise.

    I don't think I can get my arms into that Olympic style position, my forearms seem 5cm too long... Yeah I guess i'll have to front squat with just the bar to learn the technique then go from there - I thought it'd be exactly the same as back squatting but obviously not!

    Uhhh, I train with bodybuilding parameters. Chest/tris, back/bis, legs/abs 3x10 most exercises etc. Not concerned with strength or speed - I just increase the weight when able to get 10 reps in my final set.

    Also squatting every workout day like you do, man, that would put me off exercising completely. I hate working legs.

    Edited by heyyo at 22:04:47 06-01-2013

    Edited by heyyo at 22:08:39 06-01-2013

    Edited by heyyo at 22:10:13 06-01-2013
  • THFourteen 6 Jan 2013 22:10:24 33,413 posts
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    So far this week been sticking to my 1800 calorie diet pretty well. WAs ill though so only made the gym twice instead of three times :-(

    Hopefully I can lose some belly fat in the next 6 weeks before going in for more calorie intake.

    Edited by THFourteen at 22:10:46 06-01-2013
  • Rodney 6 Jan 2013 22:18:01 1,892 posts
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    heyyo wrote:
    Decided to try doing front squats today, loaded up my (pitiful) usual back squat weight on the bar & placed that bitch across my shoulders - 2 reps later I was overcome with that sense of dread you only get on leg day.

    Horrible crazy excellent exercise, reading up on it now appears that front squats stresses quads more than reg. squats so next time i'll be sure to drink 3 extra protein shakes before. Or reduce the weight
    You'll probably find that your abs really ache the day after front squats if you are new to them. They are my favourite exercise
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 22:19:43 7,315 posts
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    @heyyo

    5x5 is great way to build a great strength foundation then add in explosive moves. Is all about compound exercises as it gets your overall body strength and mass up. Gets your whole body working as a unit. Was 98 kgs bodyweight at beginning of December upto 105 now. Nope it wasnt from partying too much :)Have 2 good cardio sessions each week as well.

    Once the foundation is there you can then branch your training into body building, powerlifting,strongman or your personal sport related training etc.
  • Rodney 6 Jan 2013 22:22:52 1,892 posts
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    fletch7100 wrote:
    You are doing well with the weight you are squatting. Make sure you are going at least a parallel depth. Only go deeper if your flexibility allows it. I can go deeper quite comfortable on front squats than back squats. Well I'm not near my bodyweight at squatting yet. Only doing 90kg on my back squats. Just doing small increases every week, roughly 5 -10 kg rise each week.

    Started front squatting with just the bar, then built it up slowly to about 75kg. So just work with the bar for form, get your body and yourself used to it. Then add weight each set. Do your reps if comfortable add some more for next set and repeat.

    I'm on a simple 5x5 3 day a week strength program, each day has squats :) 2 back squats days 1 front squat day. Is a ramped set system so weight increases with small amounts after each completed set.

    Example from Friday
    Squat 70,75,80,85,90. So my next squat day I will start at 75 instead of 70. Let your body catch up with your small gains. Small steady gains over time gives your body plenty of time to repair and grow. Also is a better feeling as you will be doing new PRs quite often. Instead of throwing on a whole load of extra weight, doing a couple of shitty form reps, can't complete your set then maybe getting an injury which could set you back some weeks. Trust me I have been there before :). Damaged hip muscles, took few weeks off. Rethought my plan, wheeled in the ego, went back to bar for everything and restarted. Started training again at beginning of December and I am lifting more than the weight which caused the injury. Slow and steady and you will be lifting that heavy weight with ease and looking at moving onto the next weight

    Will switch to a 5x8 later on or a pull day/push day/ explosive power,complex routine day spilt

    Is good to learn how to front squat like this

    http://nxtlevelnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/helen_front_squat_501.jpg

    The bar is resting firmly on your shoulders, the bar is just resting gently on the hands. With the elbows high and chest high you form a stable shelf to carry the bar across your shoulders

    When you get to do power cleans(catch the bar at partial squat depth) and squat cleans(catch at full squat depth) you have to catch the bar like that on your shoulders.

    Learning those explosive movements help transfer across to your deadlifts. Have noticed some gains to my deadlift speed doing these. Along with Farmers walk to help with grip strength
    This sounds similar to what Im doing, squating 3x week and alternating front squats / back squats each time. I treat the front squats as my light recovery day (just 60 kg at the moment). I find it easier to go deeper with front squats too. they are definitely more quad dominant.
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 22:33:05 7,315 posts
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    @heyyo

    Ref front squats, I'm tall with long arms and can hold the bar just fine. Working on flexibility will sort any issues out.

    Doing power and squat cleans is a bit of a buzz. Great to get into

    Once you master front squats look at overhead squats. Ever get bored do squat push presses. Basically do a back squat, explosively power out the hole then overhead press the bar as you reach the standing position.

    I get no problems with my legs after training. Body just gets used to it. Friday was squats, bench, dead lift and farmers walk. Followed up by foam rolling, stretching, variations of planks and other exercises to strengthen my mid section. Nope I don't mean 100s of sit ups :) Then Big Mac meal as that's my Friday treat :)
  • heyyo 6 Jan 2013 22:40:41 14,373 posts
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    @Rodney As if I weren't already looking forward to walking around with sore legs tomorrow, now I can expect sore abs too(!). Heh, it's all good though :)

    @fletch That's an excellent increase in lean mass, I heard all about building a strength base first and stuff when I started my on/off training those years ago, but I was impatient and skipped it. As a result other than my legs I am pretty weak i'd say in that I see IFBB figure (not bodybuilders) women lift more than I do on youtube, and as I weigh around what they do...yeah. I should do a strength routine soon.
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 22:51:00 7,315 posts
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    @Rodney

    Yup simple enough program. 3 basic barbell exercises in each workout. The power clean section I add different variations. Added RDLs and Good mornings, farmers walk, death march,pull ups and chin ups spread throughout the week

    Love the workout, do great strange looks from the army of bi cep curlers in the gym :)

    Edited by fletch7100 at 22:51:57 06-01-2013
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 23:14:09 7,315 posts
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    @heyyo

    With body building its not always about the weight you lift, it's working the muscle correctly and defining it. Body building isn't my thing, isolate this isolate that. Then if you want to compete stripping l that bodyfat down, standon a stage and cover yourself in brown paint. Sorry doesn't float my boat, anyway love my fast food too much :)

    You mentioned about protein shakes before your workout, strength days are after breakfast so I just have a bowl of cereals, 4 slices of toast with peanut butter:)

    Edited by fletch7100 at 23:15:58 06-01-2013
  • Rodney 6 Jan 2013 23:20:22 1,892 posts
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    Yeah, thats what I do, 3 basic barbell exercises each workout 5x5 (squat, bench, row / front squat, overhead press, deadlift).  I do some dips, chins and leg raises after if I have time.

    How long are you finding it takes you to do your workout? At the moment it takes me 40 mins but Im worried that as the weight increases the time will increase too.

    Also how do you find mixing in the cardio? Conventional wisdom says it is detrimental to strength but my feeling is it is a little exaggerated by people who just dislike cardio
  • fletch7100 6 Jan 2013 23:51:21 7,315 posts
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    @Rodney

    I take my time, no need to rush the workout. Depends on your lifestyle, work, family etc. The time you train, is it busy at the gym. Do my strength stuff in the morning, less people there which means no one is doing curls in my squat rack :)

    Normally I do 10-20 mi. warm up on cross training, stretch hips, lower back as its always squats first and those are my problem body areas. Then 3 quick warm up squat sets before I do the 5 working sets. Min or 2mjns max rest between working sets. With a slow gradually weight increase rest times will stay the same, more likely change when you hit the much heavier weights, that moment happens when the bar starts to bend ;). Then I spend about 30 mins doing my foam Rolljng, stretches,planks etc. if short for time I do those at home.

    So strength on mon,wed,fri. Cardio on tue and thurs. weekends are always rest days. Never run twice in one week. Just to help against impact injuries. That's just me with my own medical history, someone else it may be different and their body is fine with it. Always vary the cardio, like that program I posted couple of pages back. Hating the treadmill now so prefer to go outside if I want to jog, gentle 5 mile cross country is the longest distance i will do. Other sessions interval training to spice things up a bit

    Strength training can help your cardio. Just have to be sensible about it, 2 cardio sessions a week are fine. Make sure they arent on your strength days. Depends on what you are training for. If you want to be a long distance runner then your whole program will be different for example. If you are entering competitions bodybuilding, powerlifting yeah it may work against you. Most of us here are just wanting to feel more healthy etc so isn't really a drama

    Read info from Bill Star and Mike Websters quotes. Knowledge from the 70s thats still true today. Both deal with strength program's like ours and conditioning to play American football. You have your strength days and then your conditioning days. Rest is especially important as well


    Right I'm off to make my post workout giant sandwiches :)

    Edited by fletch7100 at 23:59:41 06-01-2013
  • Rodney 7 Jan 2013 01:10:59 1,892 posts
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    I work quite long hours and have a young baby so Im fairly time poor these days. I've got my own squat rack im my garage which helps. I do chin ups/dips on olympic rings hanging under a tree in my garden.

    When my daughter was new born I squat once a week. I did one set of 20 rep squats to make best use of time. I got up to doing 90kg x20 but  stopped because it was just too hard. Awesone cardio/conditioning.

    I've got a bit more time now but still want to keep my workouts to under 40 mins. Ill cut to 3x5 when things get heavier and I need longer rest periods.

    Im keen to add some cardio a couple times a week, probably jogging and swimming
  • fletch7100 7 Jan 2013 08:54:32 7,315 posts
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    @Rodney

    For cardio would love to start swimming again. Haven't done that in years and know it would beast my body. Low impact and works muscles you have forgotten about.

    Once your general strength goes up then some of those 20 rep sets will be easier. Sorry I'm probably telling you what you already know :)

    Going to gym now, do like some of the characters down there. Majority are all following body buding routine, a lot of bench and arm group. Stick like figures doing their curls in front of the mirrors :) whose body and weight they lift hasn't changed since I first saw them in the gym in Novemeber. one guy who is probably one of strongest there, has his little entourage following him as he is doing deadlifts.

    Set myself some targets. Like to do 200kg for 5 reps deadlift this year. Keep it slow and steady with 10kg raises a month. Do body weight squat then get it upto 1.5 bodyweight x 5 reps. Power or Squat clean 100kg would probably be my ultimate challenge. 50 kg farmers walk round the gym for 3 laps.
  • Trane 7 Jan 2013 11:32:11 4,052 posts
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    Just a tip regarding deadlifts - don't do them heavy every week, it's very easy to burn out on them.

    My best gains have come doing either:

    3 heavy weeks followed by a light week, rinse/repeat
    1 week heavy, 1 week light/explosive.

    Good to see some people following some classic routines, rather than your gimmicky insanity etc.
  • fletch7100 7 Jan 2013 11:49:08 7,315 posts
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    Just do my deadlifts last workout of the week on a Friday. Just upto 130kg with 5 kg or 2/1/2 kg raises each week. Do a ramped set so 4 build up sets then the heaviest set

    Squats today ramped sets of 5 went from 70-90. Did a bit extra via ego did one rep sets increasing the weight by 2/5 kg to do 100kg squat. Next squat session won't go past 95kg. Just keeping it slow progress
  • THFourteen 7 Jan 2013 11:54:50 33,413 posts
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    jesus christ you guys can deadlift 200kg?

    i've always struggled with deadlift, i think my technique is messed up, any higher than 60 and i can do myself serious back injuries which put me out for ages.

    i was close to my lifteime goal of 100kg flat bench press before christmas, got up to 97.5kg with 5 good reps.

    unfortunately now its time for routine change and i am out of shape after christmas anyway so it will have to wait another 3months!

    interesting that you guys go up 5-10kg that often. i am pretty much plateuad in everything that i do now, and have been for years, so i change exercises every so often instead.

    i've never really eaten enough to grow though so not surprising.
  • Trane 7 Jan 2013 11:54:52 4,052 posts
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    I'd still take my advice though :D

    It comes from a fair bit of experience, dealifting is my favourite and best exercise.

    Slow progress is smart prgoress, you're bang on there, I just found with deadlifts, essentially hitting a PB week on week, no matter how small the increment - can lead to quite a harsh burnout.
  • fletch7100 7 Jan 2013 12:05:47 7,315 posts
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    Yeah I know what you are saying :) previous bad experiences as well over the years. As soon as it gets to that struggling phase I just lower the weight, slowly build myself back up again.

    Been down the pushing too hard path before. Not worth it in the long run
  • fletch7100 7 Jan 2013 12:11:01 7,315 posts
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    @THFourteen

    Well I'm giving myself by until end of the year to make 200kg deadlift. So under 12 months to make that extra 70kg. No need for me to go above that weight.

    Funny thing is friends I used to train with were all into powerlifting and strongman meets. My max deadlift they were using for their first warm up set. I was the baby of the group :)
  • Trane 7 Jan 2013 12:13:06 4,052 posts
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    My max is 250, but I think I may have 260 in the tank. I have a comp in 12 days time so we shall see.
  • Benno 7 Jan 2013 12:13:35 9,897 posts
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    I got to 140 on the deadlift then injured my lower back quite bad, i am 6"6" though, and I dont think I am designed for heaving lifting :S
  • Trane 7 Jan 2013 12:17:17 4,052 posts
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    Benno wrote:
    I got to 140 on the deadlift then injured my lower back quite bad, i am 6"6" though, and I dont think I am designed for heaving lifting :S
    Terry Hollands is 6'6" and pulls over 400kg :D
  • fletch7100 7 Jan 2013 12:21:42 7,315 posts
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    Strained a muscle in my hip doing squats. Happened when I was in the hole. Felt it go then thought ah sheeet. Then somehow pushed myself up to rack the bar. All down to ego and over training. Glad it happen as I sat back thought everything through and went back to bar only to work on form for everything. Now I much more cautious, any slight hint of discomfort I just lower the weight. Rather do the weight another day then have weeks off with a injury
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