George Galloway = Twat Page 2

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  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:14:10 40,859 posts
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    /notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.

    /watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:15:25
    Khanivor wrote:
    /notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.

    /watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism
    anti-zionism isn't the same as anti-semitism
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:20:43 40,859 posts
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    Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)

  • spindizzy 8 Aug 2006 18:24:42 6,533 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)


    I thought Zionists were those campaigning (sometimes violently) for a homeland for the Jews (i.e. Zion), whereas as being a Semite is being Jewish.

    So they're linked, but not the same thing (it would have been possible to be anti-zionist whilst not being anti-semitic)

    Edit: wikipedia agrees with me

    Edited by spindizzy at 18:25:55 08-08-2006
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:25:44 87,933 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)


    Actually I'd strongly argue against that. Both Judaism and Zionism are pretty wooly terms as it goes. Judaism is a race/culture/religion depending on your point of view, wheras Zionism is more of a political thing. A lot of Jews do not consider themselves to be Zionists, myslef included.
  • MetalDog 8 Aug 2006 18:26:33 23,697 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    /notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.

    /watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism

    That's really surprising and does suggest that on this occasion Galloway is utterly wrong, unless CNN is somehow counterbalancing it all with epic unworthyness the other way.

    Shame you had to flop into anti-semetic accusations though. I think that should become a secondary clause in the 'Godwin' rule.

    Personally, I don't give two shits that the people in Israel are Jewish - if I think their government are being cunts, I'll say so, the same way I say that the British government are being cunts and the American government are being cunts.
    Being Jewish does not and /should/ not provide immunity from critisism.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:27:22 87,933 posts
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    Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning.
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:27:31
    Khanivor wrote:
    Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)
    That's why the 'anti-semite' shouts are so amazing annoying.

    I don't like Israel as an idea or as a country and would like it not to exist/have been put forward as an idea after WWII. Though I fully accept that I have no control over this.

    I have little/no opinion on the Jewish race/religion/person and don't wish death upon them, including the citizens of Israel. Which is why I cannot side with the militant groups who want to exterminate the Israelis.
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:28:59 40,859 posts
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    Oh aye, I know many, many Jews are Zionists but Zionism is all about regaining Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people. In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.

    I don't link anti-Israeli sentiment with anti-semitism but am more then a little curious as to how Israel gets so much more stick for doing things, oftne by people with little to no appreciation of the history.

  • spindizzy 8 Aug 2006 18:29:45 6,533 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning.

    I know. And Classical Arabic is a Semitic language.
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:30:37 87,933 posts
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    Jewish people have been living in Isreal since long before WWII. According to that Bible book that I've heard so much about, they were there around 2006 years ago at least.
  • morriss 8 Aug 2006 18:31:01 71,037 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning.

    Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:31:26
    Khanivor wrote:
    In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
    Can you not see the problems with this?

    Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law?
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:32:58 87,933 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning.

    Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?

    It's actually a language group, that includes Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic among others. Basically pretty much anyone from the Middle East is a Semite technically.
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:33:19 87,933 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
    Can you not see the problems with this?

    Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law?

    FFS...
  • morriss 8 Aug 2006 18:33:58 71,037 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning.

    Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?

    It's actually a language group, that includes Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic among others. Basically pretty much anyone from the Middle East is a Semite technically.

    Cheers. A new thing learnt. :)
  • spindizzy 8 Aug 2006 18:34:20 6,533 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Jewish people have been living in Isreal since long before WWII. According to that Bible book that I've heard so much about, they were there around 2006 years ago at least.

    More like 3000, but they didn't have a Jewish state for a VERY long time. They were conquered by many people before the Romans. So in that sense, the notion that the Jewish people have a 'right' to the land is crazier than Brits claiming Calais, or vast chunks of france. (N.B. I'm only being pedantic here - not saying that Israel shouldn't exist)
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:34:55 40,859 posts
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    Jesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.

    But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about.
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:35:58 40,859 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    disussedgenius wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
    Can you not see the problems with this?

    Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law?

    FFS...

    Well done for seeming to confirm suspicions I was raising. You win :D
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:40:17 87,933 posts
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    Ahab wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    Jesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.

    But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about.

    Well I don't know if the problem is with their "being there" or with them being the largest military power in the area backed by the largest military power in the world, who actually haven't really done a lot of nice things there :-/ Don't be so simplistic.

    Well, I think for some it really is that simply actually. Certainly for a lot of the militants, and that's why no matter what Isreal do, no matter what they give back; troops, land etc, there will always be groups attacking Isreal 'just because'.
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:40:48
    Khanivor wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    disussedgenius wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
    Can you not see the problems with this?

    Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law?

    FFS...

    Well done for seeming to confirm suspicions I was raising. You win :D
    Was that at me or kalel?
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:41:31 87,933 posts
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    heh, I was a bit confused by that as well :)
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:44:17
    kalel wrote:
    heh, I was a bit confused by that as well :)
    Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is.
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:44:19 40,859 posts
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    Hmm, do ya reckon them being the largest military power in the area maybe has soemthing to do with being surrounded by countries that want to exterminate you and have in fact made a fair few attempts to do so, both militarily and via bombers? Just possibly?

    And maybe the world's largest power supports them because they view having a democracy in the region as a good thing? (and other reasons, but I refuse to believe support is solely there because of t3h J3w15h l0bby. Don't be so bloody simplistic.)

    On a side note, you know who used to arm and support all the countires that wanted to blow Israel apart? Who helped to arm the strong men, monarchies and tribes to help ensure that most countries in the region oppress their people through military might? The word superpower is a big hint.
  • Khanivor 8 Aug 2006 18:45:13 40,859 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is.

    It was you. You can claim it if you really want to.
  • Deleted user 8 August 2006 18:45:55
    Khanivor wrote:
    disussedgenius wrote:
    Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is.

    It was you. You can claim it if you really want to.

    Woooooooohoooooooo!



    /ignorance
  • MetalDog 8 Aug 2006 18:47:42 23,697 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Ahab wrote:
    Khanivor wrote:
    Jesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.

    But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about.

    Well I don't know if the problem is with their "being there" or with them being the largest military power in the area backed by the largest military power in the world, who actually haven't really done a lot of nice things there :-/ Don't be so simplistic.

    Well, I think for some it really is that simply actually. Certainly for a lot of the militants, and that's why no matter what Isreal do, no matter what they give back; troops, land etc, there will always be groups attacking Isreal 'just because'.

    There will undoubtedly be these people for so long as things remain volatile and for some decades after, but I'm /certain/ the situation could be handle a lot better than it is being, by all sides.

    The current ongoing and ongoing and ongoing situation is massively cruel and unfair to almost everyone in the whole area. The motherfuckers killing each other are in the minority on all sides. It's very frustrating and a great deal of the constant animosity seems to be fuelled by nothing better than pride with all sides talking about no wanting to be seen to have lost face, ffs.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:50:02 87,933 posts
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    Tell you one thing, we may be intelligent enough to seperate Anti-Semitism from Anti-Zionism, but a lot of people can not, and in the same way that Anti-Muslim fever went through the roof following 9/11, Anti-Semitism is seriously on the rise at the moment. Every day I hear a conversation on the tube or in the pub that has at least one opinion that concerns me. Really difficult time to be Jewish, even if you aren't neccessarily vehemently pro-Isreal. In fact, if you're not it's an even tricker time, creates a lot of difficult mixed feelings I can tell you.
  • kalel 8 Aug 2006 18:51:10 87,933 posts
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    Oh, and I totally agree with your last post MD.
  • MetalDog 8 Aug 2006 18:55:20 23,697 posts
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    Yep, I'd say anti semitism is on the rise as well. People are fuckwits. I can appreciate how hard the position is for the jewish in many respects when it comes to this matter. I feel more or less the same when it comes to gypsies, who often /do/ act like a bunch of cunts, but them being cunts so often doesn't justify the way they're treated most of the time and sure as hell doesn't justify the geonocide some would like to enact upon them.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

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