/notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.
/watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism
/watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism
George Galloway = Twat • Page 2
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Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Khanivor wrote:
anti-zionism isn't the same as anti-semitism
/notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.
/watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism -
Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agoEr, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)
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spindizzy 6,116 posts
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Registered 9 years agoKhanivor wrote:
I thought Zionists were those campaigning (sometimes violently) for a homeland for the Jews (i.e. Zion), whereas as being a Semite is being Jewish.
Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)
So they're linked, but not the same thing (it would have been possible to be anti-zionist whilst not being anti-semitic)
Edit: wikipedia agrees with me
Edited by spindizzy at 18:25:55 08-08-2006 -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoKhanivor wrote:
Actually I'd strongly argue against that. Both Judaism and Zionism are pretty wooly terms as it goes. Judaism is a race/culture/religion depending on your point of view, wheras Zionism is more of a political thing. A lot of Jews do not consider themselves to be Zionists, myslef included.
Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoKhanivor wrote:
That's really surprising and does suggest that on this occasion Galloway is utterly wrong, unless CNN is somehow counterbalancing it all with epic unworthyness the other way.
/notices Fox News lists Lebanese dead before Israel's.
/watches argument crumble in cloud of anti-semitism
Shame you had to flop into anti-semetic accusations though. I think that should become a secondary clause in the 'Godwin' rule.
Personally, I don't give two shits that the people in Israel are Jewish - if I think their government are being cunts, I'll say so, the same way I say that the British government are being cunts and the American government are being cunts.
Being Jewish does not and /should/ not provide immunity from critisism.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoIncidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning. -
Khanivor wrote:
That's why the 'anti-semite' shouts are so amazing annoying.
Er, how not? The two are intrinsicaly related (zionism and Judaism)
I don't like Israel as an idea or as a country and would like it not to exist/have been put forward as an idea after WWII. Though I fully accept that I have no control over this.
I have little/no opinion on the Jewish race/religion/person and don't wish death upon them, including the citizens of Israel. Which is why I cannot side with the militant groups who want to exterminate the Israelis.
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Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agoOh aye, I know many, many Jews are Zionists but Zionism is all about regaining Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people. In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
I don't link anti-Israeli sentiment with anti-semitism but am more then a little curious as to how Israel gets so much more stick for doing things, oftne by people with little to no appreciation of the history.
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spindizzy 6,116 posts
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Registered 9 years agokalel wrote:
I know. And Classical Arabic is a Semitic language.
Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning. -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoJewish people have been living in Isreal since long before WWII. According to that Bible book that I've heard so much about, they were there around 2006 years ago at least. -
morriss 69,391 posts
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Registered 9 years agokalel wrote:
Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?
Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning. -
Khanivor wrote:
Can you not see the problems with this?
In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law? -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agomorriss wrote:
It's actually a language group, that includes Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic among others. Basically pretty much anyone from the Middle East is a Semite technically.kalel wrote:
Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?
Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning. -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agodisussedgenius wrote:
FFS...Khanivor wrote:
Can you not see the problems with this?
In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law? -
morriss 69,391 posts
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Registered 9 years agokalel wrote:
Cheers. A new thing learnt.morriss wrote:
It's actually a language group, that includes Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic among others. Basically pretty much anyone from the Middle East is a Semite technically.kalel wrote:
Never knew that. In fact, I've never broken down the term anti-Semite before and thought of it in the way you descibe. What's a Semite then?
Incidentally being a "Semite" is not actually being Jewish. Ironically the Lebonese and Hizbollah are mostly Semites also. The term "Anti-Semetic" however has come to mean Anti-Jewish, even though technically that's not it's meaning..gif)
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spindizzy 6,116 posts
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Registered 9 years agokalel wrote:
More like 3000, but they didn't have a Jewish state for a VERY long time. They were conquered by many people before the Romans. So in that sense, the notion that the Jewish people have a 'right' to the land is crazier than Brits claiming Calais, or vast chunks of france. (N.B. I'm only being pedantic here - not saying that Israel shouldn't exist)
Jewish people have been living in Isreal since long before WWII. According to that Bible book that I've heard so much about, they were there around 2006 years ago at least. -
Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agoJesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.
But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about. -
Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agokalel wrote:
Well done for seeming to confirm suspicions I was raising. You windisussedgenius wrote:
FFS...Khanivor wrote:
Can you not see the problems with this?
In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law?
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kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoAhab wrote:
Well, I think for some it really is that simply actually. Certainly for a lot of the militants, and that's why no matter what Isreal do, no matter what they give back; troops, land etc, there will always be groups attacking Isreal 'just because'.Khanivor wrote:
Well I don't know if the problem is with their "being there" or with them being the largest military power in the area backed by the largest military power in the world, who actually haven't really done a lot of nice things there :-/ Don't be so simplistic.
Jesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.
But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about. -
Khanivor wrote:
Was that at me or kalel?kalel wrote:
Well done for seeming to confirm suspicions I was raising. You windisussedgenius wrote:
FFS...Khanivor wrote:
Can you not see the problems with this?
In ither words, Zionism is not concerened with any other thing then a Jewish homeland, not a Chrisitian, or Muslim or anyone else.
Do I really have to resort to Godwin's Law? -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoheh, I was a bit confused by that as well -
kalel wrote:
Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is.
heh, I was a bit confused by that as well -
Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agoHmm, do ya reckon them being the largest military power in the area maybe has soemthing to do with being surrounded by countries that want to exterminate you and have in fact made a fair few attempts to do so, both militarily and via bombers? Just possibly?
And maybe the world's largest power supports them because they view having a democracy in the region as a good thing? (and other reasons, but I refuse to believe support is solely there because of t3h J3w15h l0bby. Don't be so bloody simplistic.)
On a side note, you know who used to arm and support all the countires that wanted to blow Israel apart? Who helped to arm the strong men, monarchies and tribes to help ensure that most countries in the region oppress their people through military might? The word superpower is a big hint. -
Khanivor 38,683 posts
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Registered 11 years agodisussedgenius wrote:
It was you. You can claim it if you really want to.
Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is. -
Khanivor wrote:
Woooooooohoooooooo!disussedgenius wrote:
It was you. You can claim it if you really want to.
Can I claim it? I feel like winning something today. Even if I don't know what it is.
/ignorance -
MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agokalel wrote:
There will undoubtedly be these people for so long as things remain volatile and for some decades after, but I'm /certain/ the situation could be handle a lot better than it is being, by all sides.Ahab wrote:
Well, I think for some it really is that simply actually. Certainly for a lot of the militants, and that's why no matter what Isreal do, no matter what they give back; troops, land etc, there will always be groups attacking Isreal 'just because'.Khanivor wrote:
Well I don't know if the problem is with their "being there" or with them being the largest military power in the area backed by the largest military power in the world, who actually haven't really done a lot of nice things there :-/ Don't be so simplistic.
Jesus, jsut because I'm trying to explain something doesn't mean I support it. Personaly, I think all religious matters that expand outside a person's personal space are "a very bad thing" so the creation of a state based on the stories contained in an ancient book is batshit crazy afaiac.
But it's there now. It's there for a variety of reasons but it is there and it is not going away. Israel going away, is however, something I think a lot of people, Galloway et all included, feverishly dream about.
The current ongoing and ongoing and ongoing situation is massively cruel and unfair to almost everyone in the whole area. The motherfuckers killing each other are in the minority on all sides. It's very frustrating and a great deal of the constant animosity seems to be fuelled by nothing better than pride with all sides talking about no wanting to be seen to have lost face, ffs.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoTell you one thing, we may be intelligent enough to seperate Anti-Semitism from Anti-Zionism, but a lot of people can not, and in the same way that Anti-Muslim fever went through the roof following 9/11, Anti-Semitism is seriously on the rise at the moment. Every day I hear a conversation on the tube or in the pub that has at least one opinion that concerns me. Really difficult time to be Jewish, even if you aren't neccessarily vehemently pro-Isreal. In fact, if you're not it's an even tricker time, creates a lot of difficult mixed feelings I can tell you. -
kalel 76,472 posts
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Registered 10 years agoOh, and I totally agree with your last post MD. -
Yep, I'd say anti semitism is on the rise as well. People are fuckwits. I can appreciate how hard the position is for the jewish in many respects when it comes to this matter. I feel more or less the same when it comes to gypsies, who often /do/ act like a bunch of cunts, but them being cunts so often doesn't justify the way they're treated most of the time and sure as hell doesn't justify the geonocide some would like to enact upon them.
-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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