Running Page 29

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  • JuanKerr 11 Mar 2013 14:00:37 36,094 posts
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    Currently training for a trail marathon in July. Wanted to ask - why do all the training programmes say you should never run the full 26 mile distance before the event? It's never been explained to me.
  • pistol 11 Mar 2013 15:33:15 13,019 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    pistol wrote:
    Bear in mind that as a rule of thumb you'll start running low on energy after about 90 mins. That's about how much glycogen your body (liver and muscles) can store, no matter how much you eat. So if you're running 90 mins or more you'll have to top up the tank. If running, nothing too heavy on the stomach. A gel should suffice or handful of jelly babies etc.
    Thanks, I never knew that - I assumed that I'd be fine until the 20-22 mile 'The Wall' mark, since I thought that's when the glycogen reserves generally ran out. At least my idea to give the jelly beans a go helped out a bit though. I plan a practice run of the route next weekend, to see how badly I die on the fairly steep hills near the last few miles. I know the route well as it covers some of my usual runs into the country on my bike, but I have never run it before. Hopefully the baltic weather will have buggered off by then!

    I'm not trying gels though, I even avoid them when out on my bike for longer rides. I should try them some time, but as far as I'm aware you need to give 'em time to get used to them, or find ones that agree with you or they turn you inside out don't they?
    Yes, glycogen stores become depleted after about 90 mins - 2hrs. And if you're riding fast you'll dip into them even sooner. Your body can't really metabolise more than about 60g of carbs per hour so if riding more than 90 mins I would consume around 30-60g carbs per hour. Your levels will stay topped up and the only thing that will slow you tired will be fitness/fatigue etc. I'm 78g at the moment but won't take on anymore than about 40-50g tops per hour on rides over 3 hours.
  • pistol 11 Mar 2013 15:36:10 13,019 posts
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    JuanKerr wrote:
    Currently training for a trail marathon in July. Wanted to ask - why do all the training programmes say you should never run the full 26 mile distance before the event? It's never been explained to me.
    Couple of reasons,

    First one, you'll need a bit of a carrot to encourage you, so you never tend to train 100% of the distance for endurance events. 20 miles is sufficient as the adreneline should help to get you the remaining 6 miles. You need a little something to aim for. Plus, running 26 miles in training when you're not used to those sorts of distances won't be good for you.

    My cycling events are 100-130 miles of hills and my training rides are rarely more than about 80 miles. The odd century but not too often.
  • pistol 11 Mar 2013 15:48:58 13,019 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    pistol wrote:
    Bear in mind that as a rule of thumb you'll start running low on energy after about 90 mins. That's about how much glycogen your body (liver and muscles) can store, no matter how much you eat. So if you're running 90 mins or more you'll have to top up the tank. If running, nothing too heavy on the stomach. A gel should suffice or handful of jelly babies etc.
    Thanks, I never knew that - I assumed that I'd be fine until the 20-22 mile 'The Wall' mark, since I thought that's when the glycogen reserves generally ran out. At least my idea to give the jelly beans a go helped out a bit though. I plan a practice run of the route next weekend, to see how badly I die on the fairly steep hills near the last few miles. I know the route well as it covers some of my usual runs into the country on my bike, but I have never run it before. Hopefully the baltic weather will have buggered off by then!

    I'm not trying gels though, I even avoid them when out on my bike for longer rides. I should try them some time, but as far as I'm aware you need to give 'em time to get used to them, or find ones that agree with you or they turn you inside out don't they?
    Try Torg gels..they do some really quite nice flavours such as strawberry, ruhbarb and custard etc. They are the only ones I can stomach. In training I tend to eat real food plus the occasional gel towards the end if it's been a particularly long/hard ride. Real food takes longer to digest to I tend to have that earlier in the ride. On events I'll save gels until the last 20 miles or so.
  • CosmicFuzz 11 Mar 2013 17:13:40 21,241 posts
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    Used three gels yesterday for my 16 mile run. Stomach seemed miles better than last week, which is ace. No way I could have managed without them though, I was absolutely dead. Figure on marathon day I'm just going to take gels and jelly babies throughout, enough to keep me going to finish line. If i shit my guts out after I finish I don't care, so long as I finish!

    What's your thoughts on Heroes Reborn? Read my TV musings here.

  • Vortex808 11 Mar 2013 17:14:40 6,564 posts
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    :D
  • mrpon 11 Mar 2013 17:18:44 27,645 posts
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    Must have some jelly babies now...

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • SaucyGeoff 11 Mar 2013 22:54:44 2,480 posts
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    Ran a 14.1 mile event on Saturday. Paced it nicely to run 1.55, with a negative split. I didnt have anything for an energy boost, but gels are definitely being tested on next weekends long run.

    The main problem I have is running with some tension in my shoulders, which after a while becomes pretty uncomfortable. I consciously try to relax then, but it certainly doesn't come.naturally to me.

    10 weeks until the marathon, and plenty to work on.
  • Vortex808 12 Mar 2013 09:29:56 6,564 posts
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    SaucyGeoff wrote:
    The main problem I have is running with some tension in my shoulders, which after a while becomes pretty uncomfortable. I consciously try to relax then, but it certainly doesn't come.naturally to me.
    I occasionally get that for a bit too, it's a nightmare. I feel your pain.
  • JuanKerr 12 Mar 2013 09:33:42 36,094 posts
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    Yep, I get that too, usually in my left shoulder.
  • AccidentProne 12 Mar 2013 10:57:59 1,128 posts
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    I sometimes get shoulder / neck tension when running as well. From what I've read, it's down to poor posture and the solution is to run tall. Easier said than done sometimes though.

    Not sure if there's any link, but I've noticed it less when I do a proper warm up first. Often do a quick circuit routine before setting off (press-ups, pull-ups etc.) and that does seem to help, might just be psychological though... Maybe give that a try, although I am probably talking a load of old bollocks.
  • Vortex808 12 Mar 2013 11:39:13 6,564 posts
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    I am trying to run more upright, sometimes I lean forwards a bit which is no good for my ITB.

    I only get the shoulder issues if i'm not running very freely for some reason. Not sure why I occasionally unconsciously hunch my shoulders, it's an odd one.

    A wee bit of stretching and trying to run in a more relaxed manner sorts it out quickly though. It's funny how many folk you see trying to stretch their shoulders when they're running along too.

    It must be a really common complaint.
  • CosmicFuzz 12 Mar 2013 11:43:41 21,241 posts
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    I get pain in my right shoulder too at times.

    And great time SG!

    What's your thoughts on Heroes Reborn? Read my TV musings here.

  • SaucyGeoff 12 Mar 2013 15:44:18 2,480 posts
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    Cheers Cosmic, aiming for a sub 4 hour time on race day, which at the moment I'm hoping is achievable.

    I'm confident it's purely down to running style, but agree with the above comments that a good warm up really helps. It's particularly pronounced over longer distances as my form gets worse and worse, I have made an effort this year to improve core strength, and that also is making a difference.
  • monkeypuzzle 12 Mar 2013 21:42:45 1,947 posts
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    Lots of impressive running in here. I've been running for a few months and prior to this did very little more than an hour of exercise a week. I run 4 times a week.

    I've run two 10k's and pb is 45.30 mins on quite a tough course.

    My next target is a half marathon in a couple of months, probably May or June. I am wondering what a good target would be for the time. I dont have any concerns about the distance as I can run 9 miles comfortably and dont expect the additional 4 miles to be too hard as long as I train for it. Hopefully this isnt misplaced confidence.

    Also, I've read all the stuff about gels but what do I do about drinking for a half marathon in warm weather? I train with a running bottle for longer runs but didnt really want to carry this round. Does anyone have any suggestions, I dont think I can cope with sips from water stations.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • AccidentProne 12 Mar 2013 22:09:01 1,128 posts
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    Decent 10k time there, you're a lot faster than I was when I ran my first half marathon and I managed to come in at 1:49. I'd say 1:45 would be doable, though dependent on the course.

    As for gels, I've never used them for a half, but what pistol says further up in this thread really rings true. Tend to get to a point around 90 mins in, where it really becomes hard work. Might be worth training with one or at least jelly babies / beans, see how you get on.

    I've never carried water around on a half marathon either. Never run one in May or June though... Normally, I skip the first station as there's generally loads of congestion that close to the start anyway. After that I'll drink if I'm thirsty, but make sure I've at least had a sip by half way.
  • monkeypuzzle 12 Mar 2013 22:20:38 1,947 posts
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    ok thanks. I was thinking around 1.45 but wasnt sure if that was sensible or not. Target set. As you say I'll check its a reasonable course.

    I'll try a few jelly babies I think in some training runs.

    I dont really want to carry water so it sounds like water stations is the best option. If its very hot I suppose I might have to carry some.

    Thanks for the input.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • pistol 13 Mar 2013 12:54:06 13,019 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Decent 10k time there, you're a lot faster than I was when I ran my first half marathon and I managed to come in at 1:49. I'd say 1:45 would be doable, though dependent on the course.

    As for gels, I've never used them for a half, but what pistol says further up in this thread really rings true. Tend to get to a point around 90 mins in, where it really becomes hard work. Might be worth training with one or at least jelly babies / beans, see how you get on.

    I've never carried water around on a half marathon either. Never run one in May or June though... Normally, I skip the first station as there's generally loads of congestion that close to the start anyway. After that I'll drink if I'm thirsty, but make sure I've at least had a sip by half way.
    Drink before you're thirsty. If you wait until you feel thirsty you are already starting to dehydrate. Small sips every so often is all you need.

    I would also think about hydrating yourself well a couple of days before the event. No alcohol, limited coffee and get your body used to drinking water through the last couple of days before the run. Morning of event get at least 500ml of water down you with breakfast and you should be able to piss out the excess within about an hour of drinking it. Keep an eye on the colour of your urine and it should be clear or very pale yellow. That's a good start to hydrating for the event. Then very small sips every so often on the run itself. Don't guzzle, your body won't be able to use the fluid as effectively as sipping.

    This is good prep for any endurance event, bike or run.

    Edited by pistol at 12:59:09 13-03-2013
  • monkeypuzzle 13 Mar 2013 21:17:11 1,947 posts
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    Thanks Pistol, good advice.

    The only thing I dont quite get is how do I take regular small drinks on a run, especially if its hot, without carring a bottle? Am I meant to pick up a cup at each drink station and hope they are regular enough and sip out of this?

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • mrpon 13 Mar 2013 21:28:44 27,645 posts
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    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • monkeypuzzle 13 Mar 2013 22:40:23 1,947 posts
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    ta mrpon. You see I am probably just going round the houses. That's what I use for my longer training runs and I didnt want to look a tit carrying this round on an actual HM race. Looks like this is simply what I need to do if its hot.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • pistol 14 Mar 2013 16:06:06 13,019 posts
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    monkeypuzzle wrote:
    Thanks Pistol, good advice.

    The only thing I dont quite get is how do I take regular small drinks on a run, especially if its hot, without carring a bottle? Am I meant to pick up a cup at each drink station and hope they are regular enough and sip out of this?
    Your only options are feed stops or those small bottles you can grip.
  • pistol 14 Mar 2013 16:06:57 13,019 posts
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    mrpon wrote:
    Sorry, didn't see it.

    Yep, that's the one.
  • pistol 14 Mar 2013 16:09:58 13,019 posts
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    monkeypuzzle wrote:
    ta mrpon. You see I am probably just going round the houses. That's what I use for my longer training runs and I didnt want to look a tit carrying this round on an actual HM race. Looks like this is simply what I need to do if its hot.
    It all comes down to what you want out of the event. If it's just to get round and you're not aiming for a time, then it's not such a big deal but if you want to go as fast as possible, don't worry what you look like with a bottle. And tbh, you'll just look like someone who knows what proper hydration is all about.

    Also, hydration is key in all weathers, not just when it's hot. You lose fluid in the winter too. Sweat and moisture from your breath. You need to replace it.

    Edited by pistol at 16:11:27 14-03-2013
  • monkeypuzzle 14 Mar 2013 20:57:26 1,947 posts
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    Right you are boss. I want to get a good time so I'll use the bottle.

    Helpful advice all.

    Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

  • AccidentProne 16 Mar 2013 11:31:41 1,128 posts
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    17 miles planned this arvo and I'm going to give the gels a go for the first time. Planned on taking one after the first hour then another every 30 mins or so to top me up. That sound sensible or is it better to limit how many you take when getting used to them?
  • Vortex808 16 Mar 2013 13:44:28 6,564 posts
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    Holy shit. Ran my half-marathon route in the rain today. Any hope of a sub 2hr time next week has evaporated. I was fine and on target until the last 3miles when it hits a run of hills I knew we're going to be tough. They destroyed me. Last mile I felt like i had nothing left. Even with jelly bean power assists before hitting them.

    At least I know I can do it, just need to hope for better weather and to claw back the 7 minutes I was over.
  • AccidentProne 16 Mar 2013 13:56:53 1,128 posts
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    Just checked my last pre-race run over half marathon distance and I was nearly 10 minutes slower than on race day. The adrenalin boost from the actual event counts for a lot I reckon. Also, the other runners and crowd support are a great boost too. I reckon you'll make up those 7 mins no problem.
  • Mola_Ram 16 Mar 2013 14:16:20 6,231 posts
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    I just found out that my dad ran his best marathon time in a minute or so over 3 hours.

    O_o

    Jesus fucking christ I've got a long way to go.
  • PES_Fanboy 16 Mar 2013 15:28:23 11,637 posts
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    Post deleted
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