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  • mumtoucher 7 Sep 2017 16:23:50 478 posts
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    @wuntyphyve sounds ace, I might have to get me a copy of that.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 7 Sep 2017 16:43:51 9,345 posts
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    I still strongly suspect that the clown attacks from last year started as a PR stunt for this, that rapidly went wrong because of copycats, which resulted in them distancing themselves from it all.
  • wuntyphyve 7 Sep 2017 17:07:51 9,152 posts
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    Nah I don't see it. If it was in the last few weeks maybe but a bit early for a PR stunt no?

    Edited by wuntyphyve at 17:08:05 07-09-2017
  • You-can-call-me-kal 7 Sep 2017 17:15:14 9,345 posts
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    It was pretty much the exact time publicity for the film started. Teasers etc.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 17:16:49 07-09-2017
  • Scimarad 7 Sep 2017 17:40:20 9,205 posts
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    I don't really buy the whole 'Stephen King sucks at endings' thing. I can think of some his books that had shit endings, sure, but I can think of plenty that had goods endings as well.
  • Cadence 7 Sep 2017 20:37:01 2,032 posts
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    This book scared the absolute shit out of me when I was a teenager.
  • wuntyphyve 8 Sep 2017 02:54:00 9,152 posts
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    Well you know what I really bloody enjoyed that. In fact personally I think it was fucking brilliant.

    In my perfect world it would be an hour longer as would like to have seen certain characters and themes expanded upon a fair bit. It also wasn't particularly scary. But that may have been due to a full cinema of people constantly going to the toilet and munching popcorn.

    But. It was a magnificent ghost train ride from start to finish. The losers club were all utterly fantastic. Pennywise was awesome and I think this is the version with the best ending.

    I want to see it again.
  • ubergine 8 Sep 2017 03:28:04 7,349 posts
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    Scimarad wrote:
    I don't really buy the whole 'Stephen King sucks at endings' thing. I can think of some his books that had shit endings, sure, but I can think of plenty that had goods endings as well.
    Please name them so I can deride your choices.
  • Mola_Ram 8 Sep 2017 03:35:40 15,957 posts
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    I don't know that he sucks at endings (I loved the ending of the Dark Tower, even though he copped a lot of flak for it), but I think his books are often more bloated than they need to be. I read 11.22.63 recently, for example, and think it would have been great (as opposed to good) if about 500 pages had been cut out.

    It works sometimes though. Like with IT, which doesn't feel nearly as long as it actually is.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 03:39:29 08-09-2017
  • ubergine 8 Sep 2017 03:45:17 7,349 posts
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    wuntyphyve wrote:
    I actually think that because one of King's major weaknesses are his novels endings, his short stories are nearly unassailable. The whole of Night Shift for example - it's full of utterly superb short stories, a lot of which were adapted into film. All his strengths and none of his weaknesses (pacing, structure, ending) because of the format. One For The Road is more chilling than the whole of Salem's Lot.
    I'd identify his main weaknesses as just... writing too much. He has a lot of great ideas but when you start to break them down they are really basic. eg I enjoyed Salem's Lot but it is a retelling of the story of Dracula in a modern setting. The Stand - a plague devastates the world and then the Devil goes to Vegas or something. The broad strokes of that plot fucking nothing happens, it's just the minutia of characters dealing with these two events. Until the story finishes with magic light resolving the threat.

    I think the point where King was done for me though was Delores Claiborne and Gerald's Game, two books that were incredibly dull and uninspired. I spent some time convinced that King's wife actually wrote them and released under his name in a reverse Bachman. The Dark Tower went further and further off the rails until the fifth book (Wolves of the Calla) was to me unreadable, God I was so bored by it, and it doesn't surprise me that the series ultimately had a stupid ending, he'd set it up that he'd basically have to explain the existence of the universe to make that series work.

    I'm not sure how many books he's written in the last ten-twenty years since I stopped reading him, I just feel I know his structure inside out now and his best ideas - or adapted ideas - were all in the previous century.

    One good thing about movie adaptions is they can give an opportunity to retcon some of his mistakes, eg lame endings. The book ending of Needful Things is incredibly weak for example, a shame because the book is otherwise a great ride, and the movie offered I thought a better resolution than the Magic Light ending King went with.
  • Scimarad 8 Sep 2017 05:43:35 9,205 posts
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    @ubergine

    The good ones or the bad ones?
  • Gearskin 8 Sep 2017 07:19:39 2,990 posts
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    Imax. 6pm.
    Beep Beep.
  • Dgzter 8 Sep 2017 07:19:44 1,440 posts
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    wuntyphyve wrote:
    Well you know what I really bloody enjoyed that. In fact personally I think it was fucking brilliant.

    In my perfect world it would be an hour longer as would like to have seen certain characters and themes expanded upon a fair bit. It also wasn't particularly scary. But that may have been due to a full cinema of people constantly going to the toilet and munching popcorn.

    But. It was a magnificent ghost train ride from start to finish. The losers club were all utterly fantastic. Pennywise was awesome and I think this is the version with the best ending.

    I want to see it again.
    So happy to read this :) can't wait until this afternoon!
  • wuntyphyve 8 Sep 2017 08:13:03 9,152 posts
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    @ubergine yeah I would agree with that. I also stopped reading him. I think the last book I enjoyed of his was Insomnia. It certainly wasn't Doctor Sleep that's for sure was was made even more terrible by the fact it was tied to one of his best ever books and just pissed all over it's legacy. His dark tower series is rambling, self indulgent and so so dull that I gave up after book three. I did actually enjoy Gerald's game but again I think he ended up fucking the ending.
  • wuntyphyve 8 Sep 2017 08:14:13 9,152 posts
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    But yeah, woke up this morning still thinking how good that film was. Some utterly cracking scenes.
  • ubergine 8 Sep 2017 09:08:18 7,349 posts
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    @wuntyphyve Insomnia was among the last I read too. I don't really remember anything about it, except that I didn't hate it.

    On the one hand I kind of liked King's mildly shared universe, he did it before everyone was doing it, but The Dark Tower was a let down to me in the kind of way... well, if Avengers 3 and 4 are lame it's going to be a sorry capstone to years of those movies.
  • Trowel 8 Sep 2017 09:43:53 21,501 posts
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    Pretty much everything released between Insomnia and Under The Dome was terrible - Rose Madder and Duma Key were especially awful, though Wizard and Glass is one of his best (think he'd been sat on the manuscript for the core story within the story). The recent stuff is much better, though I'm not a huge fan of the Bill Hodges trilogy, and wish he'd get back to some bump in the night novels.
  • Dgzter 8 Sep 2017 10:02:09 1,440 posts
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    Trowel wrote:
    Pretty much everything released between Insomnia and Under The Dome was terrible - Rose Madder and Duma Key were especially awful
    Hmmm, whilst I'd agree that it was hardly a purple patch, I couldn't disagree more about Duma Key: to my mind that is by far the best piece he produced during that period.

    Definitely agree about the Bill Hodges stuff though; holds no interest for me at all.

    Meh, might just be me, I guess. Strangely, it's similar to how I feel about Woody Allen's movies from the mid-1990s onwards: everyone pours absolute scorn on everything post-Might Aphrodite to Midnight in Paris, whereas I fucking loved many of the most derided ones, such as Deconstructing Harry.
  • wuntyphyve 8 Sep 2017 10:26:37 9,152 posts
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    Yeah I read Duma Key actually and thought that whilst it rambled on far too long in places, it was pretty effective and downright creepy at points. Weirdly I also enjoyed Rose Madder but not read it in a long time.

    Still thinking about this film. Starting to be more critical in my head now:

    There was definitely nowhere near enough of Bowers and his gang. I was also very disappointed at the inclusion of Hockstetter as I really thought we were going to get something more akin to the books with him. For what it's worth, knowing all four boys from the books, they did fantastically with their limited screentime. The panic on Belch and Victors faces as they realised Henry and Patrick were more unhunged than they realised, and the subsequent hesitation in Victor during the chase really served their book counterparts well. Henry needed ALOT more screentime in my opinion but again, the screentime he did get, he was the character to a tee.

    There were too many "rushing towards the camera and screaming moments from Pennywise and IT's other guises", and on the whole I think the scares were piled onto the point where they became redundant.

    I wish there was more time devoted to the Losers Club bonding with each other and we could have seen a bit more interactions between them. Another half hour would have sorted that out nicely, as the scares were almost too jam packed in tight so that everytime we did see them interact, it was nearly always with IT close by.

    The rock fight... Just felt a bit off, but was still good to see.



    But there is ALOT in the book, so I can understand some elements being curtailed to fit the running time. I wonder if there will be a director's cut or extended version at some point though...

    Highlights: The cast - Losers club, Bowers gang, Pennywise. Perfection, all of them.
    The projector reel scene - fuck me I did not see that coming.
    Stan's creepy as fuck Modigliani painting coming to life.
    The Kitchener's Ironworks explosion made it in, as did the head in the tree! The ensuing dead headless boy walking down the stairs was fucking sweet.
    Lots more that I'm still digesting.


    I really do need to see it again though.

    Edited by wuntyphyve at 10:50:04 08-09-2017
  • Dgzter 8 Sep 2017 10:28:23 1,440 posts
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    I'll avoid the spoilers until after I've seen it, but I'm pretty sure I'm already going to agree with your earlier wish that it was an hour longer lol :)
  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Sep 2017 10:47:16 9,345 posts
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    Last thing I read of his was the Shining sequel. Was pretty meh and pointless.
  • wuntyphyve 8 Sep 2017 10:52:37 9,152 posts
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    @You-can-call-me-kal Yes it was pish.
  • Tonka 8 Sep 2017 11:00:11 26,047 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    I'm not too sure what people mean by 'modern horror'. It's more varied as a genre now than it's ever been.

    There was a phase a few years ago when it was all getting into really nasty gorno torture porn territory, but it seems to have come out the other side, and you've got everything now from camp teen slasher types, to really quite high brow arthouse horror. And yeah, some really nasty shit as well if that's your thing.
    Ah, that's the thing that isn't my thing. I gave up during the wave of torture-porn that kind of blanketed the genre for a while so I guess I missed horror coming out the other end.

    What I meant by modern horro was just that phase of torture porn that people were discussing in this thread. My comment might have ended up slightly out of context which might explain why it became hard to decipher.

    I guess it's wrong to point to that phase and label it as the modernist era of horror and seeing as contemporary horror seems to be varied I should have labeled it better. Has there ever been a modernist horror movement? Maybe the wave of italian horror films from the 70's?
  • You-can-call-me-kal 8 Sep 2017 11:05:49 9,345 posts
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    @Tonka

    'Modernist' is also kind of a weird term. It's been reinvented as a genre many times. The Giallo stuff could certainly be called that, but you could equally call the more thought provoking 70s stuff like The Exorcist or Rosemary's Baby a reaction to the more traditional Hammer classic style.

    I think things like Let the Right One In, It follows and A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night have really taken horror in a whole new direction recently. These are beautiful films that can hold their own against proper visual arthouse stuff. You might even include things like Black Swan and Antichrist in that bracket.
  • Tonka 8 Sep 2017 11:25:25 26,047 posts
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    @You-can-call-me-kal
    It's seems like the 70's is the modernist horror movie era then. I'm not sure what your issue with modernist is though. I guess that outside 'classic' art it's a bit up in the air since the term has just been lifted from a distinct period/style/set of events and applied to things that sort of have the same attributes but are disconnected in other ways.

    Film is too young a medium (compared to painting and sculpture) to have the same challenges and therefore lacks the stuffy high-brow setting that sparked modernism in 'classic' art. Maybe if the films you mention grow into a stuffy holier than thou dominant force there will be a return to the "Holy crap there's a satanist altar in my basement!" kind of films I prefer.
  • SpaceMonkey77 8 Sep 2017 11:50:32 804 posts
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    I enjoy a dose of horror & I'm glad It has been given another chance. Pennywise will enjoy the Dairy chasing, or of other town resident tikes, to breathe new life into the series. With The Mist due soon in the U.K, its great to see King's works being enjoyed more. Gerald's Game I'd never heard of until I saw a new trailer coming soon. Looks good too.

    And more so with the recent exits of William Peter Blatty, George Romero & Toby Hooper, its important to treasure these great creators while they are still around & enjoy their works & its a joy of life to be aghast, shocked & scared out of wits sometimes too.

    Overall, its good too to see that despite the exits of cool people, others are creatively inspired to still give us a scare or two with new tales different. I haven't seen Get Out yet, but have seen Rosemary's Baby, Let The Right One In & It Follows. I've been backtracking to sample some early Poe works, to see that its good to discover old gems too.

    Edited by SpaceMonkey77 at 11:52:47 08-09-2017
  • CrispyXUKTurbo 8 Sep 2017 11:54:15 1,101 posts
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    The Mist is already on netflix and it's awful. Looking forward to this though, nice to see someone put some effort into one of King's good stories.
  • neilka 8 Sep 2017 11:58:51 20,370 posts
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    Can't beat a good dairy chasing.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 8 Sep 2017 12:02:02 9,867 posts
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    Good luck and godspeed in all your future dairy chasing endeavours Neilka. All the best. And again good luck.
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