Ponomusic - new "HD" music player and store Page 4

  • Page

    of 4 First / Last

    Next
  • mal 12 Mar 2014 14:55:42 22,727 posts
    Seen 8 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    I did find I could turn my music down with the noise cancelling gizmo turned on, so the fact it toned down the bass/mid engine noise did help me listen to music and get more detail out of it. But of course, this is just one anecdote and I don't expect it to hold much sway with anyone else.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • gamingdave 12 Mar 2014 15:21:38 4,246 posts
    Seen 4 days ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    I have a few albums in 192/24 purchased from HDTracks. They sound superb on my work system which comprises of a PC, pro level firewire M-Audio interface, (once) top of the range Yamaha amp and some Monitor Audio BX2 speakers. I've also tested them with a pair of Sennheiser HD595s and Amperiors.

    All the albums sound better than my CD versions, but it was only when I did some proper ABX tests that I realised it was because they were simply better masters in the first place. I made lots of versions of the same tracks (from the HD masters) at decreasing sample and bit rates and was very surprised with the results. It wasn't till I got below 44.1/16 FLAC files and into MP3 territory that I could ever reliably pass the tests with a positive result. Some tracks had to get lower than 256KBs MP3 before I could.

    The link earlier makes for interesting reading. I had read that a while back and it makes sense from a scientific perspective.

    The harmonics and interactions of frequencies above human hearing (~20KHz+) in super high bitrate audio are often muted as benefits, but frequently by people who also praise vinyl as superior to digital which has the same upper limit of 20KHz. There also going to have zero effect when using headphones.

    I'm not saying some won't hear benefits of 48KHz (or higher) over 41KHz. But you should really do some tests yourselves to find out. There is a great plugin for foobar that lets you do ABX tests on yourself with multiple versions of the same track.

    As for Pono, I doubt it will have much success. Those seeking that fidelity can already buy 192/24 recordings and plenty of PAPs on the market support it, including the very reasonably priced and well reviewed FiiO X3 at 160. The sad truth is that even though formats like FLAC exist to give CD quality sound in a portable format most people are simply happy with MP3 or streaming. Original MP3 encoders gave poor results, but a modern day MP3 to most people will sound the same as a CD, especially if using a phone as the player and a cheap pair of headphones.

    Of course it could lead to some better mastering with proper dynamic range and less emphasis on making everything sound loud. That would be a welcome side effect.

    The vinyl/digital debate is old now. There are differences but it's normally down to the mastering. After all, unless recorded entirely in an analogue environment, mixed and then mastered using a true analogue vinyl cutter (and most aren't) then the vinyl you buy has already been a digital master at some point. From a sound perspective you are better off with a copy of that digital master than an analogue version of it. It's far cheaper to buy a high quality DAC and use a PC as a player than buy a high end record player, stylus/cartridge and phono stage.

    Even if the vinyl is 100% analogue, a good quality vinyl rip will sound imperceptible (at least in my experience). I've been making my own vinyl rips recently (all my DnB 12"s that aren't available digitally). I really can't tell the difference in the CD quality FLACs I master and the originals. I sample at 192/24 but that's only so I can have more information for doing a cleanup. That cleanup process is still not refined yet though so I also store those for when I do get a good process down.

    Of course whilst digital audio is great from a convenience perspective, vinyl has a tactility which enhances the listening experience just the same way environment and mood can.

    End of the day I love music. I love having it all available to me at one time on an HD. I also love having crates of vinyl I can look at and play. I thought I would love HD audio, but my ears can't fool my heart and unfortunately its a case of the Emperors new clothes.
  • THFourteen 12 Mar 2014 16:36:24 33,930 posts
    Seen 9 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    Think it depends on your ears. I don't have the ability to discern specific instruments etc on tracks. It all just sounds like a "song" to me.

    Although i have reasonably expensive headphones, they are bluetooth so you lose some fidelity for that, but again, i dont notice the difference enough to make it worth using them with a wire (you have the option of plugging a wire in if you want). Sennheiser PXC 360 BT i think
  • nickthegun 12 Mar 2014 16:37:59 60,617 posts
    Seen 13 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    If this thread has taught me anything, its that the brain will recognise the name as pornomusic approximately 100% of the time if you are just scanning the page.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • mal 12 Mar 2014 21:28:14 22,727 posts
    Seen 8 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    gamingdave wrote:

    The link earlier makes for interesting reading. I had read that a while back and it makes sense from a scientific perspective.

    The harmonics and interactions of frequencies above human hearing (~20KHz+) in super high bitrate audio are often muted as benefits, but frequently by people who also praise vinyl as superior to digital which has the same upper limit of 20KHz. There also going to have zero effect when using headphones.
    Your link is broken, for reasons that currently unfathom my ken, but I've rephrased it in my normal link making lingo to see if it works any better. I've read it before by the way, and it's a very good article, and always worth reading again.

    It's the main reason I've stuck with CD audio as my benchmark. It could be argued that it's worth having better than 22.05kHz top end, 16-bit resolution when you're going to be transcoding that again. I suppose, for similar reasons that engineers tend to work at higher sampling frequencies and resolutions, there's some value in higher quality for rework, but in practice, mp3, ogg and FLAC are all capable of doing a good job of replicating a 44.1kHz 16 bit sample, so there's no problem of aliasing when transcoding a song into any of those formats.

    It's a bit late to say that Neil Young's campaign will fail though, when it's already hit 200% of it's target (and was well over target by the time you posted). But who knows what celebrity endorsement will do, eh?

    Edited by mal at 21:38:04 12-03-2014

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 21:30:20 11,394 posts
    Seen 9 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    THFourteen wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    Think it depends on your ears. I don't have the ability to discern specific instruments etc on tracks. It all just sounds like a "song" to me.

    Although i have reasonably expensive headphones, they are bluetooth so you lose some fidelity for that, but again, i dont notice the difference enough to make it worth using them with a wire (you have the option of plugging a wire in if you want). Sennheiser PXC 360 BT i think
    Bluetooth headphones are shit.
    Try listening to a decent rip on proper good quality headphones, you may be surprised.
    BTW you don't need special ears to discern specific instruments, you need good audio quality.

    Edited by Armoured_Bear at 21:31:12 12-03-2014

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • prawnking1980 12 Mar 2014 21:35:37 4,772 posts
    Seen 6 minutes ago
    Registered 4 years ago
    Might be frequency issues. I have problems with my ears where certain frequencies can't be heard which should be because of damage to them. Due to loud music blasting into them.
  • mal 12 Mar 2014 21:36:39 22,727 posts
    Seen 8 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    Must admit though, I only play songs I already know when I'm on the tube or a train (tube moreso), because I know I'll be relying on my memory of the song to fill in 50% upwards of the detail.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 21:38:06 11,394 posts
    Seen 9 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Post deleted

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • Dougs 12 Mar 2014 21:38:07 68,537 posts
    Seen 4 minutes ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    A mate of mine is a huge audiophile, and took great delight in playing various CDs on his extremely expensive set up, just so I could hear sections of tracks that are not detected on any cheapo shit I'd have. And the difference in quality was noticeable for sure. Just not sure it would be worth it for me. (appreciate we're talking about rips here, but still)
  • gamingdave 13 Mar 2014 12:34:29 4,246 posts
    Seen 4 days ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    mal wrote:
    It's a bit late to say that Neil Young's campaign will fail though, when it's already hit 200% of it's target (and was well over target by the time you posted). But who knows what celebrity endorsement will do, eh?
    A successful Kickstarter campaign and a successful company are two very different things. It couldn't survive on only the backers using the service after launch, it would need the public to get on board in decent numbers and I just don't think they will.
  • askew 14 Mar 2014 10:05:32 12,444 posts
    Seen 9 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I guess this will be competing against Qobuz? They offer CD-quality streaming, for 20/month. Sadly their application is fugly and unintuitive, and their catalogue limited. If I could have Rdio's design, Spotify's catalogue, and Qobuz's audio quality, I'd be happy. Though I don't consider myself an audiophile, Qobuz sounded slightly 'richer' (particularly with classical and jazz) than the other two when I was wearing my MDR 7506s.

    /2p

    Edit: Some interesting reading on the matter:

    https://www.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2012/05/05/results-from-our-audio-poll-neil-young-and-high-definition-sound/

    Edited by askew at 10:55:47 14-03-2014
  • Page

    of 4 First / Last

    Next
Log in or register to reply