What would be your solution for bringing down the UK's debt? Page 7

  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

  • Grax 9 Oct 2013 16:22:48 2,224 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 1 year ago
    What you seem to be Mis understanding, I think, is how loaning money to the government works. I am just learning the basics at the moment but what happens is rather then getting loans out like we do, instead they give out IOU notes effectively and promise to pay a certain amount per year ( not a percentage but an actual figure) that is basically an interest charge. These IOUs have to be paid back after a certain time period, ie 15 years. Countries can then sell the IOUs they are in possession of to other countries if they need quick capital

    So countries like the us and the uk are always paying off debts and getting new ones out just don't hear about it as it isn't really news worthy

    Edited by Grax at 16:23:56 09-10-2013
  • Grax 9 Oct 2013 16:24:40 2,224 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 1 year ago
    I think what Iceland decided to do was stop paying back the amount agreed in their IOUs
  • Grax 9 Oct 2013 16:25:13 2,224 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 1 year ago
    I'm sure people will be able (and willing) to correct my missteps here
  • Mr_Sleep 9 Oct 2013 16:25:27 17,061 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    The US IOUs must be incredible. That's interesting stuff, thanks, I have learned something today.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 16:29:23 44,168 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    No one that I know of. My point is more that the debt is there and it is what it is but some countries seem exempt from having to pay it back yet that isn't true of other countries. Now, why is that?
    Depends on who lent them the debt. US has not (yet) defaulted on the debt and interest payments, so those who lent it money have no right to step in and ask for their money back, and even if they did then they may choose not to. Iceland DID default on debt payments, and have subsequently decided that they won't pay back the money they borrowed after all.

    So good luck to them borrowing in the international markets for a while.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • BonzoBanana 9 Oct 2013 18:35:42 88 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    elstoof wrote:
    If we all spent only what we had "in the pot" then no one would own a home until their 60s.
    I was obviously referring to the government pot of money that they receive from all taxation. If you wanted to compare government spending to a normal person's spending it would be wrecklessly building up debt on credit cards.
  • BonzoBanana 9 Oct 2013 18:40:16 88 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Chopsen wrote:
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    Remove the influence of incompetent idealist
    You've just negated your post.
    There is a huge amount of incompetent people who put idealism before common sense or economics. Idealistic politicians have done huge damage to this country.
  • grey_matters 9 Oct 2013 18:44:54 3,731 posts
    Seen 12 seconds ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    No one that I know of. My point is more that the debt is there and it is what it is but some countries seem exempt from having to pay it back yet that isn't true of other countries. Now, why is that?
    Depends on who lent them the debt. US has not (yet) defaulted on the debt and interest payments, so those who lent it money have no right to step in and ask for their money back, and even if they did then they may choose not to. Iceland DID default on debt payments, and have subsequently decided that they won't pay back the money they borrowed after all.

    So good luck to them borrowing in the international markets for a while.
    Surely the markets would price in the ability to repay future loans (which got a hell of a lot easier due to defaulting on the ones that were hard to repay)? What are the 5-year or 10-year bond yields for Iceland in comparison to, say, Ireland (which went the other way)?

    Edit
    Roughly speaking, on the 10 year bonds, Ireland is 3.8% and Iceland is about 6.5% so it is far easier for Ireland to borrow "sustainably". On the other hand, Ireland has zero GNP growth despite desperately needing it and Iceland is growing quite strongly. It'll be interesting to compare them in another 18 months.

    Edited by grey_matters at 19:23:19 09-10-2013
  • faux_carnation 9 Oct 2013 18:49:42 9,335 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    Remove the influence of incompetent idealist
    You've just negated your post.
    There is a huge amount of incompetent people who put idealism before common sense or economics. Idealistic politicians have done huge damage to this country.
    Have you ever read any Plato?
  • elstoof 9 Oct 2013 19:14:40 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    He's great on 5th Gear, didn't realise he had a book out.
  • BonzoBanana 9 Oct 2013 19:32:00 88 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    Only spend what we have in the pot minus a percentage that pays back the national debt over the next 10-15 years.
    So you don't have a credit card then? And mortgages are to be frowned upon?
    That's a clearly ridiculous reply when we are talking about government debt but yes wreckless spending on a credit card that you can't pay back is not much different to wreckless government spending.

    Ensure education is geared towards economics providing a workforce that is educated as best as possible for commerce and industry.
    Sounds delightful - somewhere between Orwell and communism, just the kind of prescriptive world I want to live in.
    It may not meet with your approval but many Countries are setup towards that Goal like South Korea. That's really the point though isn't it we have become very self-indulgent and lost touch with reality.


    Ensure public sector workers are paid slightly below private sector wages and their wages are not set by strikes etc.

    Why? More to the point, who would work in the public sector? Wages are set at the level required to attract the right workforce, reducing them will not simply lead to a cheaper wage bill (else why not just forego paying them at all?).
    Public sector wages in this country are very high, unfairly so compared to the private sector. This issue has to be addressed and wages in the public sector need to be realistic compared to the private sector. A huge part of the national debt is because the government has paid wages that are far too high and unsustainable pensions.


    Do everything possible to make it easier to create jobs in this country and reduce imports.
    Job creation, yes. How though? And 'everything possible'? Like passing a law to oblige every UK registered company to double their workforce, and to hell with profitability? There needs to be a balance against corporate performance, and I rather suspect that job creation has been the primary focus of every post war Government (even Thatcher's eventually). As for reducing imports, again we can't do that in isolation - trade tarriffs and protectionism are Very Bad Things, and at the very least would hurt our own export markets as other countries act accordingly.
    That's an interesting approach, throw in some completely stupid ideas of your own and them criticise them. Job creation is not easy but governments can certainly create situations which favour local companies. You can make it more expensive to import goods from china by making firms more responsible for disposal costs or set high warranty costs in law. You can weight taxation so it becomes beneficial to repair goods (i.e. support the service sector) rather than buy new goods.


    Balance our world trade so we don't have a trading deficit.

    Why? Not sure this has any relevance. Also see above.
    Of course its relevant, we have to pay for all the goods we import, thats money leaving this country. Your points are frighteningly stupid. It's hard to believe any reasonable person can not understand the huge damage caused by a huge trading inbalance.


    Remove the influence of incompetent idealist and useless establishment figures from government and replace with sucessful businessman and scientists, engineers etc.
    Wonderful idea. One question though: who?
    There are plenty of succesful business people in this country and fantastic engineers, economists, professors. If we voted in people by the worth of those individuals rather than by political parties we could achieve a lot more. My approach would be to ban political parties forcing individuals to sell themselves to the voters rather than stand behind a brand (conservatives, labour etc)


    Educate the young in school to destroy the 'entitlement' mindset and get people to understand you can't spend what you haven't earnt.
    Of course you can spend what you haven't earnt, you just need to be aware that you need to earn it eventually. Fiscal responsibility I'm all for, though obviously.
    It's more about the entitlement mindset to benefits. Many children have parents that don't work and expect to be able to do the same. Clearly in the future this won't be possible.


    Always be fair and moral so people who work hard at the bottom end of earnings do not receive less financial reward than those who do not contribute.
    How will this reduce the UK debt. But yes, I completely agree.
    Clearly again this is about a benefit system where many people live comfortable lives without working. It's making sure those on low paid work are always better off. It could be that someone or a couple unemployed can only get access to a very small basic flat but someone on low paid work would get assistance renting a house.


    Leave the empire mentality behind and start focusing on our own country rather than strutting about the world stage as if we mean something nowadays.
    Those Syrians should learn to take their dying in the hundreds of thousands like men. Seriously, our voting to ignore the potential genocide and turn away from offering to help is one of the most small minded and uncaring things I've ever seen our country do, we are diminished as a result and should be ashamed.
    Intervening in such situations has always been a disaster. I'm actually all for an improvement in helping such countries but as a world group not a few bankrupt nations like the UK getting involved only to make no difference. There is no easy fix there unfortunately. There are already power battles in the opposition. You just can't go into a muslim country and take out a horrific dictator and expect a decent democracy to sprout up. You can not force our culture on them. Their values are completely different and their mindset is dramatically different to ours. Past experience has shown that we spend a huge amount of money to achieve nothing. All we can really do is keep sending food and medical supplies and hope to bring all groups to the table.

    Keep the 3 core values of free education, free health care at delivery and a fair justice system that makes this country so superior to most countries on this planet.
    And this helps reduce our debt levels, does it?
    It obviously doesn't reduce our debts, for me its 3 things which are essential and even if in other areas spending has to be massively reduced these are core things that I think we have to protect to keep Britain a decent place. Britain seriously has to change its ways in the next few years and we simply have to accept we are a much poorer nation and should live to the level of our income. It's as simple as that. At some point we need to start sorting this problem rather than adding to it.

    http://moneyweek.com/endofbritain/
  • faux_carnation 9 Oct 2013 19:46:37 9,335 posts
    Seen 3 hours ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    http://moneyweek.com/endofbritain/
    That link is hilarious.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 20:07:24 44,168 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    You... quoted the whole thing...

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Shikasama 9 Oct 2013 20:12:39 6,828 posts
    Seen 11 hours ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    No one that I know of. My point is more that the debt is there and it is what it is but some countries seem exempt from having to pay it back yet that isn't true of other countries. Now, why is that?
    Depends on who lent them the debt. US has not (yet) defaulted on the debt and interest payments, so those who lent it money have no right to step in and ask for their money back, and even if they did then they may choose not to. Iceland DID default on debt payments, and have subsequently decided that they won't pay back the money they borrowed after all.

    So good luck to them borrowing in the international markets for a while.
    Thing with iceland is they are sat on one of the world's best sources of geothermal power so borrowing and investment won't be a problem for them.

    We've got chavs and blue WKD.
  • Razz 9 Oct 2013 20:19:25 61,196 posts
    Seen 4 hours ago
    Registered 13 years ago
    Invent something the world can't live without, a new narcotic maybe?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Steam/PSN/XBOX: Razztafarai | 3DS: 1246-9674-8856
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

  • elstoof 9 Oct 2013 21:13:39 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    BonzoBanana wrote:
    elstoof wrote:
    If we all spent only what we had "in the pot" then no one would own a home until their 60s.
    I was obviously referring to the government pot of money that they receive from all taxation. If you wanted to compare government spending to a normal person's spending it would be wrecklessly building up debt on credit cards.
    What makes you believe the debt is being built up "wrecklessly"? What would you consider "sensible" debt - A debt we can repay? Well, we haven't defaulted on any payments recently as far as I know, unless you have proof otherwise?

    Edited by elstoof at 21:14:16 09-10-2013
  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 22:52:01 15,949 posts
    Seen 8 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Isn't the deficit also rising tho? That would mean eventually we won't eventually be able to repay the debt, no?
  • Bremenacht 9 Oct 2013 23:35:17 18,220 posts
    Seen 4 hours ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    1 - Print vast amounts of money
    2 - Pay off your debt with the vast amounts of money
    3 - Burn all the excess money to restore it to previous values
    4 - Show your bottom to Chinese leaders and invite them to kiss it
    5 - Retire to Moonbase Alpha
  • Mr_Sleep 9 Oct 2013 23:45:26 17,061 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Bremenacht wrote:
    1 - Print vast amounts of money
    2 - Pay off your debt with the vast amounts of money
    3 - Burn all the excess money to restore it to previous values
    4 - Show your bottom to Chinese leaders and invite them to kiss it
    5 - Retire to Moonbase Alpha
    Best answer so far.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • elstoof 10 Oct 2013 06:32:45 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Debt levels rising is to be expected, The amount we borrow is rising but so is the value of the dosh we pay it back with.

    For instance - In 2006 when we finally paid back our loan to the USA granted during WW2, the $3.75billion dollars given in the 40s was pretty small fry by modern standards and so was the $7.5billion total repayed to be honest.
  • LeoliansBro 10 Oct 2013 08:58:33 44,168 posts
    Seen 7 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Shikasama wrote:

    Thing with iceland is they are sat on one of the world's best sources of geothermal power so borrowing and investment won't be a problem for them.

    We've got chavs and blue WKD.
    I thnk you massively overestimate how useful geothermal power is, or how interesting to investors, or how easy it would be for Iceland to climb out of this financial hole.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 08:58:55 10-10-2013

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • jimbogreen 10 Oct 2013 21:45:01 88 posts
    Seen 10 months ago
    Registered 12 months ago
    Razz wrote:
    Invent something the world can't live without, a new narcotic maybe?
    A virus like in Deus Ex which only the government has a cure for. If you don't work off your indenture period you don't get access to the antivirus.

    Either that or new coffee(tm). It's like old coffee but new.

    Edited by jimbogreen at 21:45:55 10-10-2013
  • elstoof 10 Oct 2013 21:50:09 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Viruses don't have cures.
  • jimbogreen 10 Oct 2013 21:54:19 88 posts
    Seen 10 months ago
    Registered 12 months ago
    How come that man got cured of AIDS then?
  • spamdangled 10 Oct 2013 21:58:22 27,355 posts
    Seen 13 hours ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    jimbogreen wrote:
    How come that man got cured of AIDS then?
    If you think there's a cure for AIDS then you've got another thing coming.

    The guy was "cured" of one strain of HIV as an unintended and unexpected side-effect after a stem cell transplant was carried out to cure him of cancer. At the time, the level of HIV in his blood wasn't detectable anyway.

    Stem cell transplants are incredibly dangerous and only carried out on people who are going to die anyway. It's not some sort of sudden miracle cure, and there's hundreds of different strains of HIV anyway. Just it because it worked on him, doesn't mean it would work on someone else.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 22:00:35 10-10-2013

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • elstoof 10 Oct 2013 22:01:39 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    If you mean the Berlin patient, there's this thing called Wikipedia you can read for an explanation.
  • elstoof 10 Oct 2013 22:02:22 7,293 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Bone marrow transplant dm.
  • spamdangled 10 Oct 2013 22:05:51 27,355 posts
    Seen 13 hours ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    elstoof wrote:
    Bone marrow transplant dm.
    Hmm.

    Must have been confusing it with this then.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • jimbogreen 10 Oct 2013 22:07:33 88 posts
    Seen 10 months ago
    Registered 12 months ago
    elstoof wrote:
    If you mean the Berlin patient, there's this thing called Wikipedia you can read for an explanation.
    Wikipedia? Fucks that then?
  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

Log in or register to reply